laser, maser, scuba...

[Astroboy14]

Laser, maser, scuba... all of these are acronyms that are so common that most people (not us dopers, of course...:)).

What other acronyms have entered the language and become so ubiquitous that people have forgotten that they are acronyms? My students want to know...

Anyone?

[Snooooopy]

How about radar and sonar?

[Astroboy14]

Good one Snoopy!!

But, what are the acronmys? Radar: RAdio Detection And Ranging? Sonar: SOund detectioN And Ranging?

Are those correct?

[scr4]

You got it right for radar. Sonar is sound navigation and ranging.

[CalMeacham]

Maser is Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Once you have that, LASER (Light Amplification ....) is obvious, so it's not surprising that at least two groups independently came up with it.

What's interesting is that LASER has , by "backformation" contributed the verb "to lase" to the language.

[Booker57]

Nasa. National Aeronautics and Space Administration,son of Naca. Nat. Advisory Council on Aeronautics. MTS

[RickJay]

I've commonly heard "Snafu" used as an ordinary word.

[Estragon]

check out http://www.acronymfinder.com. there is a "most common" section that may be particularly useful.


love,
S.

[ElvisL1ves]

While we're at it, Taser stands for Tom A. Swift's Electric Rifle.

[JoeyBlades]

How about these:

CPU - Central Processing Unit
RAM - Random Access Memory
DRAM - Dynamic Random Access Memory
SDRAM - Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory
RDRAM - Rambus Dynamic Random Access Memory
DRDRAM - Direct Rambus Dynamic Random Access Memory (how many more layers can they go???)
ROM - Read Only Memory
CD - Compact Disc
CDR - Compact Disc Recorder
VCR - Video Cassette Recorder
VHS - Vertical Helix Scan
CRT - Cathode Ray Tube
TV - TeleVision
PDA - Personal Digital Assistant
PIM - Personal Information Manager
OS - Operating System
ASCII - American Standard Code for Information Interchange
WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get (pronounced wizzy wig)
GREP - Global Regular Expression Print
FAQ - Frequently Asked (Answered) Questions
SCSI - Small Computer System Interface (pronounced scuzzy)

Just off the top of my geeky little head...

Actually, I can think of a lot more... I spend all day talking alphabet soup...

[jayjay]

Originally posted by JoeyBlades
How about these:

CPU - Central Processing Unit
CD - Compact Disc
CDR - Compact Disc Recorder
VCR - Video Cassette Recorder
VHS - Vertical Helix Scan
CRT - Cathode Ray Tube
TV - TeleVision
PDA - Personal Digital Assistant
OS - Operating System


DRAM - Dynamic Random Access Memory
SDRAM - Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory
RDRAM - Rambus Dynamic Random Access Memory
DRDRAM - Direct Rambus Dynamic Random Access Memory


The first group aren't acronyms, which have to be pronounced as a word. We don't say "Cuppu" or "Cert", we say "C-P-U" or "C-R-T".

The second group are only semi-acronyms, since the first parts are pronounced as separate letters.

[Nukeman]

Laser is the worst - americans even spell it lazer.

LOL - i love that acronym site. my favourit is TWAT - Tank Waste Audit Team

[JoeyBlades]

jayjay:


The first group aren't acronyms, which have to be pronounced as a word.


What makes you think an acronym needs to be pronouncable as a word, per se? I'm pretty sure that all of the ones I gave you would show up in most (if not all) "official" acronym references. An acronym is merely a word-like string of characters, usually comprised of the first letters of the words from a common phrase.



The second group are only semi-acronyms, since the first parts are pronounced as separate letters.


Not to give your overall claim that these were not acronyms any credence, however, for the record I do say "DRAM" as opposed to "DEE-RAM".


Nukeman:


Laser is the worst - americans even spell it lazer.


Huh? I've never seen it spelled like that except in the case of the trademarked name LazerTag (TM). Perhaps you're thinking of Frazier which is an Americanized version of Fraser???


BTW, my favorite geek acronym (that **IS** frequently pronounced) is the perl motto TMTOWTDI (There's More Than One Way To Do It). The pronounciation is essentially "Tim Tow Dee". I didn't include it before because it's a bit obscure to the average dude or dudette on the street.

[jayjay]

What makes you think an acronym needs to be pronouncable as a word, per se?

From http://www.acronymfinder.com :

An acronym is a pronounceable word formed from each of the first letters of a descriptive phrase.

I knew I'd read it in a print publication or two, also. Now, I'll admit that it's not the only definition out there, but if you want to be linguistically permissive, be my guest.

[RavingMad]

I'll side with jayjay here: in order to be a proper acronym, the string of letters must be both pronounceable and actually pronounced as a word. NASA and RAM, therefore, are acronyms.
VHS and LED are not.

One distinction is to call words like CIA and CPU initialisms. My Torment Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary defines an initialism as: "An abbreviation of a phrase consisting of the initial letter of each word in the phrase; distinguishable from an acronym in that it is not pronounced as a single word." It's a handy way to differentiate them.


To the list I'll add:
--Lasik (not quite certain what it stands for, though. Also, it hasn't quite attained true 'word' status like laser as it still retains its initial capital letter.)

--CAT scan (though it keeps its capitals, not too many know it stands for Computerized Axial Tomography.)

NASDAQ (keeps its capitals, but no one off Wall Street seems to know what it means. Uh, what does it mean?)

As a related aside, does anybody know a word to describe terms like laser that once were acronyms but have now morphed into true words (to the point where, as CalMeacham points out, "lase" is now a verb)?

[KeithT]

From acronymfinder.com:

NASDAQ: National Association of Securities Dealers Automated Quotation

[Astroboy14]

Thanks all! And a special thanks to estrogen for the link!

But what I'm really looking for are acronyms (keep in mind I haven't checked the link out yet) that have become so common that most people have forgotten that they are acronyms... so CPU, etc. don't fit the bill.

My students want to be able to stump native speakers of English with acronyms...

[Robot Arm]

NASCAR, perhaps. And 'Nabisco' comes from National Biscuit Company.

[mnemosyne]

Although this only applies to Québec, Cegep is an acronym-turned-word. It stands for Collège d'éducation générale et professionel

[Billdo]

Originally posted by STARK
I'll side with jayjay here: in order to be a proper acronym, the string of letters must be both pronounceable and actually pronounced as a word. NASA and RAM, therefore, are acronyms. VHS and LED are not.

I'll have to disagree with you partially on LED, which stands for 'light emitting diode'. Although my experience is that years ago it was universally pronounced as L-E-D, it is now commonly (though not always) pronounced as a single sylable word, sounding exactly the same as 'lead', the very heavy metal.

[dtilque]

As far as the definition of acronym, see my second post in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46209)

I listed the half dozen most commonly used acronym derived words in that thread (radar, laser, sonar, scuba, snafu, and canola). Others can be found in the rec.puzzles FAQ (ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/puzzles/archive/language/part1/) (search that page for "acronym").

[Badtz Maru]

What is the oldest still-used acronym? Most of them are 20th century creations.

[JoeyBlades]

jayjay:


An acronym is a pronounceable word formed from each of the first letters of a descriptive phrase.


Ironic that they ignore their own criteria, isn't it? Check out their most commonly requested acronym page:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/mostcommon.asp


Most (if not all) of the acronyms I provided are captured here and upheld by their database to be acronyms. Plus a few hundred other non pronouncable acronyms. Now I'm not sure why they would include unpronouncable non-acronyms (given their definition), however I'm inclined to forgive them this transgression since, in fact, their definition is clearly wrong.

If you look up the word acronym in a "GOOD" dictionary you should see something like the phrases "word or word form" or "the phonological or orthographic sound or appearance of a word". In other words, an acronym only needs to "look" like a word. Most on-line dictionaries use only abbreviated versions of the first definition of a word, so they are not your best reference when such questions of meaning arise. Even still, none of the ones I searched specified pronouncability. I assure you that pronouncability is NOT a criteria for acronyms.

Am I being "linguistically permissive" or are you being "linguistically restrictive"? I think the dictionaries (as well as common practice) support my position.


In response to Badtz:


What is the oldest still-used acronym?


Perhaps RSVP, though originally it was not an acronym - merely an abbreviation (R.S.V.P.). I'm not sure whether it is technically an acronym now, though I do note that acronymfinder.com lists it in their database... and I have heard it pronounced "rizz vip".

[Hail Ants]

The US video standard, NTSC, isn't an acronym but the other two, PAL and SECAM, are. PAL being phase alteration by line and SECAM being, um, something in French...

And depending on who you ask NTSC refers either to the standard itself, national television systems code or the congressional group responsible for it, national television systems committee. And, yeah yeah, never twice the same color (I hate that stupid joke.)

[broccoli!]

fubar
snafu
NFL
NBA
UPS
COD
CIA
FBI
rotflmao
lol
brb
afk
bbl
pita (pain in the ass, I made it up, but it WILL be popular)

broccoli!

[Hail Ants]

Billdo:Although my experience is that years ago it was universally pronounced as L-E-D, it is now commonly (though not always) pronounced as a single sylable word, sounding exactly the same as 'lead'

What planet are you from?! I have never, ever heard LED pronounced 'lead' and I would slap anyone who would try to!

While I'm at it:

MS-DOS is pronounced 'em es das' as in Das Boot, not doss (rhymes with boss).

RAM is pronounced like, well, ram as in Dodge Ram or 'ram it down your throat'. Not ram (rhymes with bomb). That's how you pronounce ROM (not like Rome).

I better stop, I sound like Dr. Seuss...

[Astroboy14]

I hate to sound insistant, but:

But what I'm really looking for are acronyms that have become so common that most people have forgotten that they are acronyms... so CPU, etc. don't fit the bill.

My students want to be able to stump native speakers of English with acronyms...


Things like CD, LED, USA, etc... don't fit the bill, as everyone knows that they are acronyms (even if they're not 100% sure what it stands for).

But imagine the satisfaction of studying English as a second language, and going up to a native speaker and asking "What does SCUBA stand for?" and when the native speaker says "Duh... I dunno..." being able to tell him/her!

My students eat this stuff up...

[Derleth]

SECAM Sequential Color & Memory

SECAM Séquentiel Couleur Avec Mémoire (French Color TV Standard)

SECAM Something Essentially Contrary to American Method (play on SECAM TV format) :-)

The first is a translation of the French, and they are all from the acronym site listed above.

[toonerama]

"Crud" is one I've used for years. It can be as general as "crap", but I think it comes from ham radio and stands for Continuous Random Unwanted Disturbance.

And how about "awol" - absent without leave.

And excuse the racist term, but "wop" - without passport.

[dtilque]

Because being written in all caps is strongly indicative of acronymic origins, those origins are generally only forgotten by the majority of people when the acronym is written in lowercase. But knowing that it's an acronym is not the same as knowing what the acronym stands for. Example: a couple years ago I was in a class on DCOM programming and the teacher asked if anyone knew what ASCII stood for. Everyone there (and they were all experienced programmers) knew it was an acronym, but only one of us (me) was able to expand it. So there may be other all cap acronyms that most people don't know the expansion for, but to find them, I expect you're going to have to go around and take polls like that teacher did.

In my previous post above, I gave a link to the rec.puzzles FAQ that doesn't seem to work (at least I can't seem to get it to work). If you can't get there, try ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/puzzles/archive/language/ and then select part 1 then search for "acronym".

I just reviewed that list and noticed one error. In the list of Near Misses, he includes "deet", rejected because it is supposedly pronounced as a series of letters. That's incorrect. It's pronounced /dit/ and should be in the regular list.

But deet, like most of the other words in that list, is not a common household word (despite the fact that it's in a common household product; check the ingredients of any bug repellant you have). Of the "pure" acronyms, we've already mentioned all the common ones. The blends should add a few more such as napalm and modem.

[dtilque]

Originally posted by toonerama
"Crud" is one I've used for years. It can be as general as "crap", but I think it comes from ham radio and stands for Continuous Random Unwanted Disturbance.
The common English word crud predates the invention of radio by several centuries. So that acronym is at best a bacronym.

And how about "awol" - absent without leave.

Awol is rather old as acronyms go, dating from either 1919 (according to Merriam Webster) or the Civil War. I doubt the earlier date, since the place I read it accompanied it with an unlikely story of its origin. However, I don't think it meets Astroboy's criteria, since most people know what it stands for.

And excuse the racist term, but "wop" - without passport.
That's a bogus etymology. Look it up in the dictionary.

[Mr2001]

As long as we're counting Nabisco, let's add Coleco - Connecticut Leather Company, I believe.

Hail Ants, how do you pronounce das as in Das Boot? I pronounce DOS to rhyme with boss, and I say das with just a slightly shorter "ah" sound.

[doc_miller]

Mr2001 - At least with my relatively neutral mid-western accent, the a in das is pronounced "ah", while the o in boss is pronounced "aw". However, regional accents could easily make the 2 vowels pronounced identically.

Scott

[tomndebb]

In southeast Michigan and Northeast Ohio (and among every other person I've ever met), DOS (whether it's MS-DOS, or the old pre-VSE IBM mainframe system) rhymes with boss, floss, and loss.

To rhyme DOS with the German article das, I would expect to have to travel to Bahston, MA.

[delini8r]

It's not really a proper acronym, but modem is short for MOdulator/DEModulator.

I guess everybody's got DSL now and it's a moot point.

[JoeyBlades]

Hail Ants:


What planet are you from?! I have never, ever heard LED pronounced 'lead' and I would slap anyone who would try to!


Well, you've got a lot of slapping to do 'round here. I work with a bunch of Electrical Engineers and Electronic Technicians, in and out of labs and more than 50% of 'em say "led" rather than "ell-ee-dee".


toonerama:


"Crud" is one I've used for years. It can be as general as "crap", but I think it comes from ham radio...


And of course ham is an acronym for Handheld Amateur Radio...


dtilque:


Because being written in all caps is strongly indicative of acronymic origins, those origins are generally only forgotten by the majority of people when the acronym is written in lowercase.


Very good point. I suspect that since I see people write "ram" and "rom" quite a bit, many folks that don't know their origin may not realize that these are acronyms. And to your point about knowing what common acronyms stand for, ask young folks these days what CD stands for and more than half of them will tell you it's "Computer Disk"... I asked my kids (ages 10 and 14) what VCR stood for and they didn't have a clue, even though they use the term a dozen times a day or more...


delini8r:


It's not really a proper acronym, but modem is short for MOdulator/DEModulator.


Actually, MODEM is considered an acronym. Most definitions for acronym say either the first character or first few characters of each word in a name or phrase.

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by JoeyBlades
I asked my kids (ages 10 and 14) what VCR stood for and they didn't have a clue, even though they use the term a dozen times a day or more...


Just an interesting note: here in Malaysia I recently bought what was advertised as a VCR, but it didn't record.

[Jonathan Chance]

OK, it's an old joke but...

TWAIN (for scanners and the like)= Technology Without An Interesting Name

[StephenG]

Originally posted by tomndebb
In southeast Michigan and Northeast Ohio (and among every other person I've ever met), DOS (whether it's MS-DOS, or the old pre-VSE IBM mainframe system) rhymes with boss, floss, and loss.

To rhyme DOS with the German article das, I would expect to have to travel to Bahston, MA.

Even in Bahstin, we pronounce "DOS" to rhyme with 'boss', etc. :)

To respond to the terminology question, I'd agree that the difference between 'acronym' and 'initialism' should exist. However, it has by now been phased out and will be nigh impossible to bring back again. (Sigh.)

[JoeyBlades]

What do you call those things that look like acronyms but are really meant to be pronounced as a series of letters and numbers yet configured to sound like words or phrases?

Examples:

NXS - In Excess
OU812 - Oh, you ate one too
X10U8 - Extenuate
MED8 - Immediate
N10CT - Intensity
10SC - Tennessee
MAC8 - Emaciate
XLR8 - Accelerate
INVU - I envy you

Not looking for a list, just a name... maybe I'll start a new thread in an appropriate forum to identify the most clever assemblage... assuming I know what to call them.

[dtilque]

Originally posted by JoeyBlades
Actually, MODEM is considered an acronym. Most definitions for acronym say either the first character or first few characters of each word in a name or phrase.
Yes, but what modem really is the initial syllables of the words. So it could also be considered a blend. But most blends are the first part of one word and the last part of another such as SQUIGGLE = SQUIrm + wIGGLE. Lewis Carroll called these portmanteau words.

So we need a new name for the combination of initial syllables. How about SYLAC for SYLlable + ACronym?

There are several sylacs around: avgas, biopic, cyborg, moped, napalm, parsec, pixel, sysadmin, among others.


What do you call those things that look like acronyms but are really meant to be pronounced as a series of letters and numbers yet configured to sound like words or phrases?

Rebus.

[JoeyBlades]

dtilque:


So we need a new name for the combination of initial syllables.


Perhaps, but I do note that a couple of references to the word acronym that I found, in fact, used MODEM as an example of an acronym formed from the first few letters of key words...



Rebus.


Hmm.. A rebus is usually comprised of pictograms and partial words. Also a rebus is normally presented in the form of a puzzle... I'm not sure that's a match. (I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you).

Any other suggestions?

[The Hamster King]

Originally posted by Astroboy14
What other acronyms have entered the language and become so ubiquitous that people have forgotten that they are acronyms?


Not acronyms, but interesting anyway -- couple of corporate ones:

Arby's == RB's == Roast Beef

Exxon == Esso == S.O. == Standard Oil

[dtilque]

Originally posted by Pochacco
Arby's == RB's == Roast Beef

Not the case. See Arnold W.'s post in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=44912) for a debunking of that idea.

Exxon == Esso == S.O. == Standard Oil
The first part is somewhat misleading. Back in 1969 (I think), Standard Oil of New Jersey had a big project to rename the company. The new name was intended to be used everywhere they did business. And since they didn't own the rights to the name Esso everywhere, the new name had to be distinct enough not to infringe on it trademarkwise.

They considered lots of names, most of which were nothing like Esso. No doubt the resemblance help decide for Exxon, but the fact that no language they knew of spelled words with double X was also an important factor. It turns out that Maltese has double Xs, but Exxon doesn't mean anything in Maltese, so that's no problem.

[dtilque]

Originally posted by JoeyBlades
Perhaps, but I do note that a couple of references to the word acronym that I found, in fact, used MODEM as an example of an acronym formed from the first few letters of key words...

I agree that modem is technically an acronym, but it's also technically a blend. It's just that it doesn't quite follow the usual form form of either of these kinds of words. Hence my suggestion that it represents a new class of word.

[whitetho]

Originally posted by JoeyBlades
And of course ham is an acronym for Handheld Amateur Radio...

Except that it isn't. The best evidence is that it was adopted from the derogatory term for a poor operator, which dated back to landline telegraphy. (The American Radio Relay League's page Why it's called ham radio (http://www.arrl.org/whyham.html) has some background information.) Also, The Slang of the Wire (http://www.ipass.net/~whitetho/1902talk.htm#slang) section of "Telegraph Talk and Talkers", from the January, 1902 issue of McClure's Magazine, noted that:
Like any other language, Morse has its patois--a corrupted version of the purer speech used by the inexperienced or by those to whom nature has denied the finer perceptions of timing and spacing. This patois might be called "hog-Morse." ... The original message had been transmitted by senders of hog-Morse, called technically "hams," and the receivers had absent-mindedly recorded the words as they had really sounded.

[JoeyBlades]

whitetho:


Except that it isn't.


Well, perhaps it is **AND** it isn't. HAM is certainly an acronym for Handheld Amateur Radio, though I acknowledge that it may not be the origin of the term ham as commonly used in ham radio.

[dtilque]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
What is the oldest still-used acronym? Most of them are 20th century creations.
This one is not in current use except maybe by historians, but it's almost certainly the oldest in the dictionary:

SPQR Senatus PopulusQue Romanus, the senate and people of Rome.

[mbh]

Did the Romans actually pronounce SPQR as a word?

On a side note, would the early Christian use of "ICHTHYS" to denote Jesus count as an acronym?

[dtilque]

Originally posted by mbh
Did the Romans actually pronounce SPQR as a word?

Don't know. For all I know, they could have just said the phrase when they saw the letters.

But what is this hangup you (and others) have about the pronunciation of acronyms? Why does having a pronunciation that's the same as a series of letters make it a non-acronym? It's still a pronunciation. As far as linguists are concerned, an initialism like VCR is just as much a word as, say bandwidth. Perhaps more so, since more people know what a VCR is than what bandwidth is.

The discussion on LED above indicates that some are pronounced as a series of letters by some people and with some other pronunciation by others. What's the status of those? Acronym, initialism, both, or something else?

Furthermore, as those rebus words JoeyBlades posted indicate, many words have a pronunciation the same as a series of letters. Are those not words because they are pronounced the same as a series of letters?

[peepthis]

flak = FLieger Abwehr Kanone

Translates as "air defense cannon" or some such

How many other foreign acronyms have penetrated the English language? (and I don't buy that R.S.V.P. is an acronym)

[dtilque]

A few more foreign ones:

Gestapo = GEheime STAatsPOlizei (German).

Tokamak and gulag are Russian ones for which I will not produce the phrases being acronyzed. Kolkhoz is a Russian syllable acronym (sylac).