I didn't know Presidents didn't use email

[Runs With Scissors]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us...kberry.html?hp

This is a NY Times article about Obama having to give up email.

I just assumed Presidents used email. Email, really, only became widely used under Clinton; compared to the numbers today, the number of people using email during Clinton's administration is minuscule.

So how does the President communicate? Really, the only question is how does Bush communicate? He's really the first President during wide use of email (and the World Wide Web).

I can't imagine this moratorium on email will continue. Still, though...what exactly is the rule with Presidential communication? Even if he used PGP, would Obama's email still be public record?

Forgive all the ignorance this post implies...it's new to me.

[Captain Carrot]

Linky no worky.

[Runs With Scissors]

Linky no worky.

Try this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us/politics/16blackberry.html?hp

[Captain Carrot]

That is very interesting. I wonder if Bush is going to get a non-AOL account now? :D

Seriously, though, can't he get a public and private email address, so that he doesn't have to worry about FOIA for stuff that's nobody's business?

[friedo]

Seriously, though, can't he get a public and private email address, so that he doesn't have to worry about FOIA for stuff that's nobody's business?

That's exactly the issue that caused a scandal for Gov. Palin. She used her private email account to conduct state business instead of her government address.

Any President using a private email account would be subject to questions about what he was using it for.

[Tuckerfan]

I'm going to come out and say that that article is a lot of bull. First of all, plenty of people in the White House do use email, or am I in some kind of bizarro world where the whole scandal of White House folks sending emails through the wrong server never happened? If they can use email, and in theory, at least, be in compliance with government regulations, then so can the President. Notice that Bush said he was stopping his email use not because of government regulations, but because:Since I do not want my private conversations looked at by those out to embarrass, the only course of action is not to correspond in cyberspace,” Meaning, he didn't want people forwarding around something he emailed them, and not that he was prohibited from doing so.

Nor is it a "security risk." You, provided you have the proper clearances to buy them, can use devices like the BlackBerry, which encrypt everything, and it remains encrypted until it reaches the correct recipient. Yes, social engineering and spyware can breech those, but being able to successfully pull those off on someone like the POTUS would be insanely difficult.

Obama will no doubt have to watch what he sends to whom, and what account he uses to do it, but he can keep emailing people if he so desires. Given the man's love of tech (multiple cellphones, Star Trek references, etc.), I really doubt he's going to quit, though he certainly will cut down.

[Shagnasty]

I wouldn't do it if I were the Pres. It is easy enough to send encrypted messages to someone with something like a PGP key but the person on the other end could still decrypt it and send it somewhere else creating a bad chain of messages if they so desired. The risk simply is not worth it.

[Tuckerfan]

I wouldn't do it if I were the Pres. It is easy enough to send encrypted messages to someone with something like a PGP key but the person on the other end could still decrypt it and send it somewhere else creating a bad chain of messages if they so desired. The risk simply is not worth it.

There's ways around that. Instead of the person getting the text of the email, they just get a link to an encrypted webpage, they have to prove they're who're they're supposed to be, and then they can read the message. Once they've read it, the webpage automatically deletes it. Additionally, you can set up a person's device so that they can only send and recieve messages to and from selected people. This is done at multiple levels, so the ability to get around it is extremely limited.

When I worked for the satphone company, we had to set up a pair of satphones so that they could only call one another, or be called by one another. It took a lot of work, and I have no idea why this was needed, but it was done, and the customer was a former POTUS.

[friedo]

Notice that Bush said he was stopping his email use not because of government regulations, but because:Meaning, he didn't want people forwarding around something he emailed them, and not that he was prohibited from doing so.


No, he stopped sending emails because, as Presidential correspondence, they would all be public record, whether they were forwarded or not.

[Tuckerfan]

No, he stopped sending emails because, as Presidential correspondence, they would all be public record, whether they were forwarded or not.

Still not a legal requirement for him to "cease and desist," however, and there are rules about the public getting them, and given this Administrations refusal to turn over documents even when ordered to by the courts, I have a hard time believing that Bush was worried about them being examined through official channels.

[friedo]

Still not a legal requirement for him to "cease and desist,"


RTFA. Nobody claimed there was such a legal requirement.


however, and there are rules about the public getting them, and given this Administrations refusal to turn over documents even when ordered to by the courts, I have a hard time believing that Bush was worried about them being examined through official channels.

That's just dumb.

[Tuckerfan]

RTFA. Nobody claimed there was such a legal requirement.
RTFOP, notice the words "having to give up email," with the implication that somehow becoming POTUS means you can't use email any more. Pretty much the only way that could happen if you're the most powerful man in the world is if you're required to do it by law, or if the laws of physics prohibit you from doing so.


That's just dumb.Yes, I agree that it is dumb of this Administration to do such a thing, but they've done plenty of dumb things in the past, so its well within plausability.

[ZebraShaSha]

What's the big deal if he communicates with old friends or stays in touch with what's going on "in real time"? As long as he isn't sending state secrets with an emoticon, there's nothing to really worry about, no? Obama seems like the kind of guy that's smart enough not to be stupid.

[Tuckerfan]

What's the big deal if he communicates with old friends or stays in touch with what's going on "in real time"? As long as he isn't sending state secrets with an emoticon, there's nothing to really worry about, no? Obama seems like the kind of guy that's smart enough not to be stupid.

Given Obama's use of his CrackBerry and that there were no leaks until the mention of Hillary as SoS, I tend to agree with you. He'll certainly cutback on his emailing, but I doubt if he'll be able (or want) to give it up altogether.

[China Guy]

one can use windows digital rights management or other software to send a secure encrypted email that can not be forwarded or printed. one can set a 'self destruct' after a certain date or after being opened once.

of course, blackberry does have that functionality so Obama will need to switch to a windows mobile device.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

I suspect that Obama, as President, will be just too busy to do email personally.

I have worked with the head of a much smaller government agency, and he hardly ever responded to email himself. Most often, his email was printed out, he took it with him & looked at it during meetings, travel time, etc., and scribbled notes on it to various staff members on how to respond. Then he'd drop it off with his secretary, who would forward the email & his note to the appropriate staff person. They would then respond (usually tvia email) to the original sender. So email was received & sent, but very rarely by this executive -- he was just too busy.

I would imagine that same situation is even more true for the President. He's just too busy to be sitting down typing out responses to emails, and he has available a horde of secretaries & aides who can attend to this for him.

[fluiddruid]

one can use windows digital rights management or other software to send a secure encrypted email that can not be forwarded or printed. one can set a 'self destruct' after a certain date or after being opened once.

of course, blackberry does have that functionality so Obama will need to switch to a windows mobile device.There's no government cellular equivalent, though. Wouldn't it be a security risk to have these messages sent through such channels? Even if the message is encrypted, wouldn't there be a risk from the provider itself (let's say someone at a high level in Sprint was working with a foreign government)?

[Tuckerfan]

There's no government cellular equivalent, though. Wouldn't it be a security risk to have these messages sent through such channels? Even if the message is encrypted, wouldn't there be a risk from the provider itself (let's say someone at a high level in Sprint was working with a foreign government)?

No. First of all, modern encryption methods simply can't be broken without the data key. Trying to decrypt it without the key would take centuries. Second, the government has its own monitoring equipment and dedicated communication equipment in the domestic telecomm facilities. If you have a government issued secured cellphone, any calls you make on it (at least in the US) will be routed through the government's switchers, and not the switchers that the average phone call are handled by.

[Cervaise]

Really, the only question is how does Bush communicate?Hitler: "My dog has no nose!"

Crowd: "How does he smell?"

[Tom Tildrum]

A presidential email address would almost certainly be leaked quickly, and then inundated.

[DrDeth]

No, he stopped sending emails because, as Presidential correspondence, they would all be public record, whether they were forwarded or not.

So, he can't send letters either?:dubious:

[msmith537]

A presidential email address would almost certainly be leaked quickly, and then inundated.

I'm sure it could be blocked from outside email.


The problem, as I understand it, is not that they are worried about emails being forewarded. They are worried about conversations that normally would not be recorded would now be part of the public record if sent via email. I think the implication of the term "public record" is that it doesn't have to be forwarded. Those emails would simply be available to anyone who asked as subject to Freedom of Information Act.

[ftg]

Suppose someone got an email account at the White House called "Renegade" or some such. Starts sending/receiving email to staff. While officially, no one would know who "Renegade" is, people might suspect.

Presumably, the White House has (high grade) wireless routers, a laptop can have it's MAC address changed, etc. Outside of the fact of logging in, no traces of who is actually "Renegade" can be proven.

Of course, Presidents can be required to be deposed. (That sentence doesn't sound right for some reason.) So a suspected "Renegade" might have to worry about testifying under oath about "Did you send this email?"

"On the Internet, no one knows you're the President."

---------

As to locking things up with encryption. If a person can read it on a PC-type device, then it can be saved, copied, etc. The only semi-fix is to lock in to limited protected hardware as mentioned above. But even then, if it's on a screen and the receiver has a digital camera, presto copy-o.

Throw in Govt. rules on accessibility, then the system would also have to allow other ways of "reading" the email, which would allow even more holes.

---------

But I keep thinking of poor Scarlett Johansson. Who's going to email her now? Tell you what Mr. President-elect. Give me her email address and I'll take over emailing her.

[WhyNot]

I suspect that Obama, as President, will be just too busy to do email personally.

I have worked with the head of a much smaller government agency, and he hardly ever responded to email himself. Most often, his email was printed out, he took it with him & looked at it during meetings, travel time, etc., and scribbled notes on it to various staff members on how to respond. Then he'd drop it off with his secretary, who would forward the email & his note to the appropriate staff person. They would then respond (usually tvia email) to the original sender. So email was received & sent, but very rarely by this executive -- he was just too busy.

I would imagine that same situation is even more true for the President. He's just too busy to be sitting down typing out responses to emails, and he has available a horde of secretaries & aides who can attend to this for him.
But by all accounts, Obama's a Crackberry addict; he could read them whenever he has a spare moment and reply directly if he wanted to, in the same time it took your guy to write notes to the secretary.

I'm not clear on where the "allowed to" that I've seen in so many articles is coming from. Who's making these rules, and do they have the force of law? I'd think that being aware of the possible public consumption would be enough, and then the man's got to watch what he types the same way he watches what he says when "the microphone is off", when he's at a state function, or when an interviewer shouts at him from a crowd.

Really, why does, "Michelle, Malia's play got moved to 6:00, can you make sure Mrs. Potts knows I'll need my blue suit pressed and ready? Kthnxbye. *terrorist fistjab*" need to be kept a state secret, anyway? Official documents oughtn't be emailed (*cough* EPA reports *cough*), but I don't get why not-sensitive private ones are similarly taboo.

[cowgirl]

I suspect that Obama, as President, will be just too busy to do email personally.

I have worked with the head of a much smaller government agency, and he hardly ever responded to email himself. Most often, his email was printed out, he took it with him & looked at it during meetings, travel time, etc., and scribbled notes on it to various staff members on how to respond. Then he'd drop it off with his secretary, who would forward the email & his note to the appropriate staff person. They would then respond (usually tvia email) to the original sender. So email was received & sent, but very rarely by this executive -- he was just too busy.
I've had bosses like this, my current one is one, but he uses his blackberry. His [reading an e-mail on his blackberry + thumbing out a response] is much more efficient than someone [printing it, filing it, giving it to him + him reading it, scribbling a note + someone transcribing and forwarding his note].

He is not the only person who has told me that their blackberries free up time. Either way they have to read and respond to e-mails; the question of whether that's easier with paper and staff, or blackberry, depends on the user.

[TJVM]

I don't see any reason Obama couldn't continue to use email, if he's willing to accept the fact that his messages (including perhaps some of his personal messages) may become government records. With Clinton and Bush, I always had the impression that they just weren't inclined to use email -- they may have had email addresses at some point, but it wasn't part of their routine (the fact that Bush had an AOL address suggests he was not too internet-savvy). Obama, however, is clearly comfortable with it.

I think the security aspect is overblown. If Obama is not personally sending or receiving emails about Presidential business, then most likely someone else is doing it on his behalf (Obama gives message to staffer, staffer goes and emails the recipient). There's no getting around the fact that sensitive information is being communicated by email; I don't see that it changes anything if the President is doing it personally.

A presidential email address would almost certainly be leaked quickly, and then inundated.
That's certainly a concern, but there are plenty of famous or prominent people who manage to use email. I imagine that some sort of strict whitelisting might be necessary (e.g., the only emails that reach him are ones from inside the White House, plus certain designated email addresses).

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Is it possible to stamp an email with classification, like TOP SECRET or FOR YOUR EYES ONLY?

[doreen]

I suspect that Obama, as President, will be just too busy to do email personally.

I have worked with the head of a much smaller government agency, and he hardly ever responded to email himself. Most often, his email was printed out, he took it with him & looked at it during meetings, travel time, etc., and scribbled notes on it to various staff members on how to respond. Then he'd drop it off with his secretary, who would forward the email & his note to the appropriate staff person. They would then respond (usually tvia email) to the original sender. So email was received & sent, but very rarely by this executive -- he was just too busy. Certain people in my much smaller government agency do the same thing- but it has more to do with comfort (and perhaps a status issue) than being busy. We've only gotten real email in the last two years. For the most part, those under 50 of whatever rank, send their own email. So do most of the women. The few people who don't send their own emails tend to be older, male managers who still have their secretaries place their calls.

[DrDeth]

Is it possible to stamp an email with classification, like TOP SECRET or FOR YOUR EYES ONLY?

Yes. On Outlook there are 4 different Sensitivity settings, for example.

[mswas]

The President probably just talks to the people directly around him and THEY send out the e-mails.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Yes. On Outlook there are 4 different Sensitivity settings, for example.

Oh, I was thinking about classifications as per in military/intelligence documents.

[Marley23]

The current administration has faced a significant amount of controversy for doing what some of you are proposing: conducting government business on private email accounts, and then saying it was not for public consumption. It's an issue that's been lawyered about for some time. The problem is that politicians in general will take as much secrecy as they possibly can. While it might be a good thing if Obama could be a regular person by maintaining an email account, sooner or later you'd find a much larger-than-expected amount of government business being conducted in private when it used to be public.

[WhyNot]

The current administration has faced a significant amount of controversy for doing what some of you are proposing: conducting government business on private email accounts, and then saying it was not for public consumption.
Who's proposing he conduct government business on private email accounts?

[Dewey Finn]

That's certainly a concern, but there are plenty of famous or prominent people who manage to use email. I imagine that some sort of strict whitelisting might be necessary (e.g., the only emails that reach him are ones from inside the White House, plus certain designated email addresses).
I read somewhere that this is how the president and his family get personal mail. There is a code word or number that they tell only friends and family, who write this on the envelope. So the White House staff know to deliver this correspondence.

[Tuckerfan]

Bumping this, because the O-man has basically said, "You'll get my crackberry when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers." (http://crackberry.com/president-elect-obama-not-giving-his-blackberry-without-fight)"They're going to pry it out of my hands...You know, this town's full of lawyers. I don't know if you've noticed…and they have a lot opinions. And so I'm still in a scuffle around that, but it–look, it's the hardest thing about being president. How do you stay in touch with the flow of everyday life..."

[Tastes of Chocolate]

I just don't see how email is really any different then snail-mail or a phone call.
I can record a phone call, or copy a piece of paper, and pass them around.
I can conduct public business on a private phone line.
I can include confidential information in a hand written letter.
Sounds like Obama is going to have to first indicate that he is capable of differentiating between private and public conversations, and then put his foot down.

[Marley23]

Who's proposing he conduct government business on private email accounts?
Nobody's proposing it, it's something that would be unavoidable. As soon as you say "you can conduct private business with this account, but not government business," you have to define what those things mean and people are going to wrangle and find loopholes. Washington is a town full of lawyers and smart people, and while the public might want transparency and clarity, the politicians don't necessarily want that, because the more of their papers are public, the more potentially there is for embarrassment.

Mind you, I do think Obama should be allowed to keep a mobile device and an email account. His reasoning is correct: he needs to be able to get out of the bubble of advisers. Saying he can't email or have a BlackBerry makes about as much sense as saying he should have to travel by horsedrawn buggy, because planes can crash. :rolleyes:

[rbroome]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/us...kberry.html?hp

This is a NY Times article about Obama having to give up email.

I just assumed Presidents used email. Email, really, only became widely used under Clinton; compared to the numbers today, the number of people using email during Clinton's administration is minuscule.

So how does the President communicate? Really, the only question is how does Bush communicate? He's really the first President during wide use of email (and the World Wide Web).

I can't imagine this moratorium on email will continue. Still, though...what exactly is the rule with Presidential communication? Even if he used PGP, would Obama's email still be public record?

Forgive all the ignorance this post implies...it's new to me.

Presidents don't do email. Shocking but true. What is really shocking is this fact hasn't led to laws that protect one's privacy regarding email. But as of now, anyone can get emails with a subpoena. The President's emails would be available to every congressional committee and outside group with a lawyer and an ax to grind. Heck, even the President's private conversations can be seized. Secret Service agents have been forced into court to testify about private conversations they might have overheard while protecting the president.

One of Bush'es last emails he sent to his friends before becoming president was a farewell telling them he had been advised that he had to give it up for his own protection.

Such is the life we live in.

[rbroome]

Still not a legal requirement for him to "cease and desist," however, and there are rules about the public getting them, and given this Administrations refusal to turn over documents even when ordered to by the courts, I have a hard time believing that Bush was worried about them being examined through official channels.

I don't think anyone is saying that there is a legal requirement preventing him from using email. I am sure there is not. But the privacy breech is so large that no President could afford to use email. It will be hard but I don't think he will do it. Now, there may by a lot of odd messages posted by his secretary from a laptop that just happens to be temporarily sitting in his office, but surely the President wouldn't resort to trying to hide his communications....
As for Bush, he came in on the heels of Clinton who had suffered a lot of intrusion into his life (not going to argue about whether it was justified) and at the time Bush thought he might be held to the same standard. After 9/11 happened and Bush got to declare war on the enemy he could hide anything behind national security. But that opportunity hadn't arisen yet.

[rbroome]

I suspect that Obama, as President, will be just too busy to do email personally.

I have worked with the head of a much smaller government agency, and he hardly ever responded to email himself. Most often, his email was printed out, he took it with him & looked at it during meetings, travel time, etc., and scribbled notes on it to various staff members on how to respond. Then he'd drop it off with his secretary, who would forward the email & his note to the appropriate staff person. They would then respond (usually tvia email) to the original sender. So email was received & sent, but very rarely by this executive -- he was just too busy.

I would imagine that same situation is even more true for the President. He's just too busy to be sitting down typing out responses to emails, and he has available a horde of secretaries & aides who can attend to this for him.

that is not really done (in my opinion) because of time constraints. It is done so that the head can deny, or more properly simply point out, that he didn't say any such thing in the email. It is all about deniability, not time management.

[rbroome]

So, he can't send letters either?:dubious:

I don't think the issue is public records. Certainly that is a problem, but the real issue is that anything he writes can be subpoenaed. A private letter certainly can be.
Given the attack nature of politics, he has to assume someone is going to court tomorrow to try to find some dirt.

[furt]

I read an article on this that mentioned that Bush had been in the habit of regularly emailing his daughters -- as president he gave it up because he did not want those communications to ever end up in the public domain. Sad, but as noted, this is the world we have made.

[HeyHomie]

I could have sworn that Bill Clinton and Chelsea e-mailed each other while she was at Stanford; ISTR hearing about this on NBC news or something. The newscast was trying to present Clinton as having to go through the same things that other fathers go through when their daughters go to college.

Seriously, are father-daughter exchanges subject to FOIA?

[Tuckerfan]

I could have sworn that Bill Clinton and Chelsea e-mailed each other while she was at Stanford; ISTR hearing about this on NBC news or something. The newscast was trying to present Clinton as having to go through the same things that other fathers go through when their daughters go to college.

Seriously, are father-daughter exchanges subject to FOIA?

If he used a government computer and/or an official government account, then it could be. Potentially, it could be if it went through government owned servers and routers. There are, however, plenty of delaying tactics which could be used (and have been used by many Presidents) to slow or prevent the release of such materials.