Salmonella in Cookie Batter?

[palmolive]

My grandma will never let us eat raw eggs in batter because she is paranoid about salmonella. Are there any documented cases of people actually becoming seriously ill from sneaking a bite of dough? And if so why do people eat cookie dough in ice cream? Does the freezing kill bacteria? And how about old key lime pie recipes where you don't cook the pie? Can you kill the bacteria (by freezing of the like) and make the pie okay to eat or do I need a new cookbook?

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palmolive*

[TubaDiva]

Grandma loves you, honey.

I quote from a recent (7/1/99) Government Accounting Office report:

Eggs contaminated by the Salmonella Enteritidis bacteria have been recognized
as a public health problem since 1988. About 300,000 illnesses and between
115 and 229 deaths may have occurred in 1997 as a result of Salmonella
Enteritidis, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Illnesses and deaths from Salmonella Enteritidis cost the nation approximately
$225 million to $3 billion in 1996, according to the most current estimates
from the U.S. Department of Agriculture (usDA). Although not all Salmonella
Enteritidis infections are linked to eggs, between 1985 and 1998, when
a cause could be identified, over three-quarters of Salmonella Enteritidis
outbreaks were linked to eggs, according to the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention.

It's more of a deal if you have health problems to begin with, or if your immune system is already compromised, but even if you're 100% healthy, is that bit of raw cookie dough worth being so sick over?

your humble TubaDiva
sorry to be such a spoilsport

[Markxxx]

Cookie Dough Ice Cream is made from pasturized eggs. Thus it is safe. Ahhh another one of my favorite childhood memories gone. Remember how we fought each other as kids to see who could lick the spoon. Maybe this is why kids today grown up deprived?

[Gaudere]

I do actually know someone who got horribly sick from eating raw cookie dough. However, that doesn't deter me in the slightest from licking the beaters. I eat french silk pie made from raw eggs too.

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"Eppur, si muove!" - Galileo Galilei

[BunnyGirl]

Bah humbug to all the statisticians out there! Is there the possibility? Sure, but there's also the possibility of getting hit by a car.
Personnaly, I love fresh cookie dough. I don't like the ice cream though. I like the dough before the chocolate chips go in. Just brown sugar, butter, flour and eggs. Yumm!!! I also like raw hamburger for the record, but maybe that's too much information. Feel free to retch now. :D

[Satan]

I love a milkshake with an egg in it. Not for any protein suppliment, but because the whites made it thicker and gave it a slight flavor which mingles so well with the malt and chocolate.

Alas, in NC you cannot use a raw egg in anything in a reatsurant. You also cannot get a burger with any pink in it - All ground beef has to be cooked all the way through.

Well, I never once got sick consuming eggs in shakes and medium rare burgers, and I hate the fact that my state won't let me have it my way...

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
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[Byzantine]

I have a few bites of raw cookie dough when I make them, couldn't be more than a 1/4 teaspoon of egg in there (BTW I like mine with the choc chips and nuts in it!) But I do make my own mayonnaise with a whole egg and canola oil. I've had people freak over that but I've been doing it for YEARS and have never gotten sick. Maybe it's just because I have a stomach of cast iron or a great constitution.

I rarely, maybe once every five years or so, get sick with a cold or something like that. And I've only had the flu once (the year I got a flu shot, incidentally. I think it was a shot for the wrong flu type). I don't think I'd let kids eat it, though, since they are smaller and more susceptible to illness.

I remember seeing something like "Medical Detective" where a kid ate a wad of raw hamburger and it almost killed him. But I've never had the compulsion to eat raw meat. Maybe you have some werewolf blood in you if you do have that compulsion!

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You can count the number of apples in one tree but never the number of trees in one apple.

[TheNerd]

you can't get a medium rare steak in NC? Remind me not to go there.

Last (and best) steak I've had was at an Outback steakhouse. Medium rare, juicy, and when I cut it, it actually bled a little. Mmm.

Then again, I love the taste of blood. I've heard some people don't, but I find that odd. Have you ever really tasted it?

[JAB]

A clarification - you can get STEAK cooked rare in North Carolina. But HAMBURGER and GROUND BEEF have to be cooked Medium-Well or Well Done by law.

[JAB]

While we have had confirmation of the seriousness of salmonella poisoning, the orignal question hasn't really been answered.

There are many foods that use raw eggs (homemade ice cream for one). Does freezing kill the salmonella?

[TheNerd]

Manhattan, I did say the best steak I've had *lately*. This is the summer, and I've not had an opportunity to be around the good restaurants recently. Besides, until that particular steak, I always ordered medium-well, just because that's how they always cooked 'em at home.
I'll keep those restaurants in mind. My girlfriend shares the same taste I do in most things, so good restaurants are a great find.

[Markxxx]

JAB - I think I did answer your question. They use Pasturized eggs in products calling for raw eggs. Thus they are safe. You can get these at health food stores. Very expensive though.

[manhattan]

Exqueeze me? You go to Rice (from your profile) and the best steak you’ve had is at an Outback?

Oh, my son, you’re missing the wonders of the universe! Houston was made for good steak.

Try Zagat’s (http://www.zagat.com) . I can personally recommend Lynn’s and Brenner’s. And The Palm and Morton’s, while chains, generally do a good job. You’ll cough up an extra few bucks, but you’ll remember the rare, perfect steaks for months.

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Livin' on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine

[Leslie]

I actually got up the nerve to try Steak Tartare (that's raw steak, chopped fine with a raw egg and fresh diced onions and herbs) when I was in Paris. Ahh! C'est magnifique! Those French can make ANYTHING taste good!

[moriah]

To all of you who have claimed "I've never gotten sick from eating raw eggs (in dough, shakes, pies, whatever)..." --

I have a question for you: Have you ever had a 24 hour flu whose symptoms were only vomiting and/or diarrhea (with a slight fever)? Have you ever had stomach or intestinal cramping without being sick in any other way?

If you answered yes to either question, then most likely you had food poisoning. Most probably from salmonella. Most probably from under- or uncooked meat or eggs. It wasn't bad enough to send you to the hospital or the coroner. And that's the problem with people's perception of food poisoning. They only think of worst case scenarios and forget that the poisioning can be mild. But it was food poisoning and not a viral infection.

So, be careful in thinking you were never struck with food poisoning -- you just may have, many times over.

[Totally tangential -- many people who develop an allergy they never had before mistake their symptoms as that for a common cold.]

Peace.

[Kat]

To all of you who have claimed "I've never gotten sick from eating raw eggs (in dough, shakes, pies, whatever)..." --
I have a question for you: Have you ever had a 24 hour flu whose symptoms were only vomiting and/or diarrhea (with a slight fever)? Have you ever had stomach or intestinal cramping without being sick in any other way?

No and yes but, ummmm, for a different reason. ;)

[Holly]

Freezing is not a good way to kill bacteria. It just slows down their rate of reproduction. In fact, some bacteria thrive in the freezer, for example Listeria, which is why you're not supposed to eat meat that's been in your freezer for several months. And did you know pregnant women should never, ever eat bologna or other processed meats because Listeria can cause severe birth defects (without the mom ever having any symptoms)?

Hamburger must be cooked thoroughly because the grinding mixes fecal material through the meat. Steaks can be pink in the middle because cooking kills the bacteria in the fecal matter on the surface. (If you poke the raw steak with a fork, you're carrying fecal matter into the center of the steak.)

Eggs are becoming MORE dangerous as time goes by. In the days of yore, some eggs had salmonella bacteria on the surface. If you washed them first, they were safe to eat raw. Now the salmonella is inside the chickens and inside the eggs. One in three chickens is infected with salmonella and this percentage is growing. It's estimated that each American has food poisoning about three times every year.

I don't have the sources for these stats right off hand, but I can produce them if necessary. I had to memorize all this stuff in school. :)

[Kid_Gilligan]

I usually hate it when a thread gets sidetracked to a different topic, but I just have to say this.

While I am sure most towns have legitimate steak houses that serve a better steak, if you are ever in a strange city where you don't know the restaurants and want a good piece of meat, try the Bourbon Street Steak at Applebees.

It comes on a sizzling platter so that the last bite is still hot. And when I say sizzling platter, I mean sizzling platter. I've been to many places where the platter feels about as hot as you would expect it to be out of the dishwasher. But the platter at Applebees is hot enough that the wooden holders made for them show singe marks from the contact.

One word of advice, though. Order the steak a bit rarer than you usually like it, since the meat continues to cook at the table.

[moriah]

moriah said:

To all of you who have claimed "I've never gotten sick from eating raw eggs (in dough, shakes, pies, whatever)..." -- I have a question for you: Have you ever had a 24 hour flu whose symptoms were only vomiting and/or diarrhea (with a slight fever)? Have you ever had stomach or intestinal cramping without being sick in any other way?


Kat replied:

No and yes but, ummmm, for a different reason.

Food poisoning, kids... same thing. You usually have to go to the hospital to get your stomach pumped and you feel bad for a while afterwards.

What stumps me is why people keep doing the same thing all over again that brings back the same condition.

Peace.

;)

[BoBettie]

I've ended up with a serious case of salmonella poisoning TWICE,and i'm only 28..One was from bad eggs in French Toast at a greasy spoon diner, and once from chicken at a restaurant. I will never, ever take my chances on chicken or eggs in a restaurant. I just can't do it. Lets just say that both times I prayed to God almighty to just take me already and end the suffering. If Dr. K was in the neighborhood, I'd have maxed out my Visa to pay him. It's unreal. I figured it was payback for being such a rotten kid.

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An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.

[Kat]

*rolls eyes* I'll repeat it for you: "No and yes but, ummmm, for a different reason."

Meaning, first: no, I haven't had your "24 hour flu whose symptoms were only vomiting and/or diarrhea (with a slight fever)".

And, yes, I've had your "stomach or intestinal cramping without being sick in any other way" but I can assure you it was not caused by food poisoning of any kind. Think about it a little bit, 'kay? Get back to me if you can't figure it out.

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"It's bacon!!"

[Nickrz]

It's estimated that each American has food poisoning about three times every year. Who's doing that estimating? That sounds like a ridiculously high number.
(Btw.. I'm 46 years old and have never had food poisoning in my life).

[BunnyGirl]

Ditto for me.

[curwin]

I remember my wife and I had received a recipe for chocolate mousse from my grandmother, who lives in Boston. We went to Chicago, made the mousse, and my mother-in-law would not let any one eat it because of the raw eggs and threat of salmonella. We weren't sure what to do, so we decided to call my grandmother.

Us: "Is there any problem with the mousse as far as salmonella?"

Her: "What are you talking about? There's no salmon in this chocolate mousse!"

[Weird_AL_Einstein]

Hey what about the cookie dough in those log-type things you can get in the supermarket? I eat that stuff raw occasionally.

[Hello Again]

pasteurized eggs again, no worries. I'm pretty sure it says so on the package, actually.

Chalk up another respondant on the list of those who eat raw cookie dough, raw meat & sushi and have never been food poisoned. Actualy, once, when I was a kid, I got food poisoning but it was from a turkey sandwich. Like a previous poster I have a cast iron stomach and am very very very rarely ill. I haven't taken a sick day for which I was actually sick in over 3 years. I was sick one or two days of college that I can remember (bronchitis). ::shrug::

OTOH, I am very paranoid about handling raw chicken & turkey. I don't go out of way to eat raw eggs either. But I dont run in fear from licking the beater blades.

[Ethilrist]

So why not just use pasteurized eggs for the things you're likely to eat raw? I've been cooking with pasteurized eggs for years and haven't had any problems, either with getting sick or with the quality/consistency of the finished product.

[Guinastasia]

Well, the only thing I ever got from eating raw dough were extra pounds and a tummy ache once from eating so much of it! LOL.

I think the raw stuff tastes better than the cooked stuff.
Hell, I think I'll go and get me some cookie loggage....
*drooling*

[elfkin477]

Originally posted by moriah
To all of you who have claimed "I've never gotten sick from eating raw eggs (in dough, shakes, pies, whatever)..." --

I have a question for you: Have you ever had a 24 hour flu whose symptoms were only vomiting and/or diarrhea (with a slight fever)? Have you ever had stomach or intestinal cramping without being sick in any other way?

If you answered yes to either question, then most likely you had food poisoning.
[/b]

While those could be symptoms of food poisoning, the underlined symptom occurs as often as several times a week for people with irritable bowels. Maybe once or twice it was food poisoning after eating cookie dough, but I really wouldn't notice the difference if that's all the distress it caused. I certainly wouldn't chalk food poisoning up as the most likely cause of discomfort, though.