Fred Phelps' Crowd Learns the Golden Rule

[Hypno-Toad]

Some Westboro Church protesters found out that if you're gonna bring hate to the table, you'd better be able to receive as well as give.

Story here. (http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10494164)

I like that the students were not disciplined and that the school spokesperson blames the Phelps crowd.

[cosmosdan]

Yay!!! I'm particularly glad that there was no serious violence but the students still let the church crazies know that their BS wouldn't fly in their town.

You go kids.

[Kyla]

What's the big deal? This happens EVERY time the Phelpses go anywhere. As far as I'm concerned, this kind of stuff is what gets them excited. It'd be better to ignore them.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

Sadly, the Westboros' relish the idea of martyrdom. :rolleyes: :(:mad::(

[Hypno-Toad]

It'd be better to ignore them.

This is completely opposite of what you should do. Phelps and his crowd are bullies. Ignoring them just makes them bolder. They may crave martyrdom, but it's better to draw a line in the sand than to just let them keep on pushing and pushing. Eventually, you'll find them complaining about why they only get 99% of their demands and how evil their opponents are for hoarding the last 1%.

But the student counterprotest is fun to see because it's a great case of the Phelpers being hoist by their own petard.

[Kyla]

This is completely opposite of what you should do. Phelps and his crowd are bullies. Ignoring them just makes them bolder.

How could we know that, since it's never been tried? Every time they go everywhere, people protest them. They love it. It just proves to them how evil and faggy America is. They crazy.

DNFTRLT.

[Ferret Herder]

How could we know that, since it's never been tried? Every time they go everywhere, people protest them. They love it. It just proves to them how evil and faggy America is. They crazy.

DNFTRLT.
Sure, it's been tried, and worked. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/09/way_to_go_matie.aspx) The Phelps crew couldn't handle the weird and wonderful "counter-protest" of the Pastafarians, who denounced shellfish and polyester blends, so they packed up and left.

[Kyla]

Ferret Herder, I hadn't heard that story. Ha! Love it. Maybe I was wrong. Perhaps counterprotests should all go dadaist.

[What Exit?]

Story here. (http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10494164)
Good for the Students. A little counter protest from kids won't help the morons and should help the kids know not to just take it. Kids being active in protests like this is a good thing.

I am a little disturbed the newspaper published the names of two of the kids in this context. Hopefully no crazies pull anything.
Sure, it's been tried, and worked. (http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/09/way_to_go_matie.aspx) The Phelps crew couldn't handle the weird and wonderful "counter-protest" of the Pastafarians, who denounced shellfish and polyester blends, so they packed up and left.
Now this on the other hand is pure genius. I hope more peaceful confusing counter-protest take place that demonstrate the ridiculousness of the Phelp crowd without directly confronting them.

[Shodan]

Students threw hamburgers and bottles of lemonade and milk at several members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., students said after the protest.Sorry to interrupt the love fest, but this is unacceptable, and the students who did it deserve to be prosecuted.

Violent protest is always wrong. It isn't wrong just when I disagree with the protesters, but always.

[What Exit?]

Sorry to interrupt the love fest, but this is unacceptable, and the students who did it deserve to be prosecuted.

Violent protest is always wrong. It isn't wrong just when I disagree with the protesters, but always.
No, you're wrong. The police are not calling it violent and as juveniles being accosted on the way out of school nothing should happen in this case. Did the article say if anyone was hit? No!

Besides it is hardly a love fest. Kyla already said it was the wrong approach. Try reading the thread a bit more carefully.

[Antinor01]

Sorry to interrupt the love fest, but this is unacceptable, and the students who did it deserve to be prosecuted.

Violent protest is always wrong. It isn't wrong just when I disagree with the protesters, but always.

Agreed. They took a bad approach. Throwing things at the protesters and at the police was a very bad choice for those that did so.

[Shodan]

No, you're wrong. The police are not calling it violent and as juveniles being accosted on the way out of school nothing should happen in this case.The statements came from the students. And the principal is quoted as saying he could not guarantee the safety of the Phelps group.

One wonders why, if all was calm, one of the teachers felt called on to spray Mace into the air.
Did the article say if anyone was hit? No!SO, if I were to throw a bottle at a gay person who was protesting against the recent proposition, it would be OK so long as I didn't hit anyone?

How about if, say, I were to hang someone in effigy? Is that OK, since no one is actually hurt/ Or perhaps burn a cross on their lawn or something. Non-violent and therefore OK, right?

[Kythereia]

I agree that throwing stuff crosses the line. When we demonstrated back at Queen's Park (our local parliament building), we yelled and ranted and waved signs--but everyone was very, very careful not to put anything over the fence or touch the police standing by the doorway. The peaceful protest rules were read out via megaphone before the demonstration, and anybody acting up got hauled off by the protest marshals.

Now the Pastafarians, on the other hand, were inspired brilliance. FSM bless. :D

[What Exit?]

The statements came from the students. And the principal is quoted as saying he could not guarantee the safety of the Phelps group.

One wonders why, if all was calm, one of the teachers felt called on to spray Mace into the air.
SO, if I were to throw a bottle at a gay person who was protesting against the recent proposition, it would be OK so long as I didn't hit anyone?

How about if, say, I were to hang someone in effigy? Is that OK, since no one is actually hurt/ Or perhaps burn a cross on their lawn or something. Non-violent and therefore OK, right?

You have a point but you are still wrong as I pointed out, it was a bunch of kids being harassed on the way out of school. No one got hurt so no charges should be filed.

The hanging in effigy and burning cross idea are not pertinent as those would be organized thuggery, not a spur of the moment counter-protest.

As to Prop 8 protesters, if they for some reason were protesting outside a school as it was letting out (which would make no sense) and the kids acted the same in throwing stuff but not hitting anyone, I would have to say that there should be no prosecution and the protesters were in the wrong to start with. However as no gay rights groups is likely to be that stupid, I think all three of your arguments were not the same as this case.

[Little Nemo]

The best response to fanatics like the Phelps crowd is ridicule. They expect opposition and revel in their martyrdom as they're attacked for telling the "truth".

But being publically mocked and laughed at is more than most people can bear. It shows that no only do people reject your opinions, they don't even take them as a serious threat. You're reduced to insignificance. The crowd is enjoying itself at your expense.

If more people had made fun of Hitler's moustache back in 1923, the world would have been a better place.

[Hypno-Toad]

But being publically mocked and laughed at is more than most people can bear. It shows that no only do people reject your opinions, they don't even take them as a serious threat. You're reduced to insignificance. The crowd is enjoying itself at your expense.

I agree that this is the best approach. Scorn and ridicule take much of the power from an argument. But I still like that the Phelpers got a little hate back at them. at least it shows that the kids know that the Phelpers are nutcases and are willing to show it.

[MacTech]

If ignoring doesn't work, and they can't seem to tolerate being mocked (E.G. the Pastafarins brilliant parody), just go overboard on the parody, maybe it'll overload their little two-volt brains

for example, signs like;
"God hates God!"
"Without Evil there would be no Good, so Evil is Good!"
"Resistance is Futile, you will be Assimilated"
"01111100110111101110101011000011100100110
010101100100011110101010110110101100010"
"SUDO RM -RF God"
"Han Shot First!"
"Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script"

the T-shirt line at ThinkGeek is a good resource for meaningless antiprotest posters....

[Baker]

I'm from Topeka, where Fred and Co. lurk. They were outside my church just this past Sunday.

Ignoring doesn't work, they just ratchet it up. And they themselves have attacked people,(a minister and a jogger amongst others), so one has to keep a wary eye on them.

Ridicule works best. It won't make them go away, but they hate it so. I once was part of a chorus that sang Christmas music across the street from them. So of us were gay, some not, some were Christians, some were atheist, some pagan. But we all sang both religious and secular carols. When we sang "Deck the Halls" it was great. I'll leave it to the audience to figure out which line was sung the loudest!!!

[Shodan]

You have a point but you are still wrong as I pointed out, it was a bunch of kids being harassed on the way out of school. No one got hurt so no charges should be filed. I will take it, then, that throwing bottles at people would be fine so long as you miss. Free speech for people with bad aim, IOW.

The hanging in effigy and burning cross idea are not pertinent as those would be organized thuggery, not a spur of the moment counter-protest. You might want to read the article in question a little more closely.Students said they were expecting the demonstration: They found out online and through word of mouth.

Ari Brodkey, 16, held a sign reading "This Jew is not afraid of you." He called the demonstrators from the church "disgusting."

Counterprotesters included students from Omaha Central and Omaha North High Schools.So it does not seem to have been as spur-of-the-moment as you seem to allege.

As to Prop 8 protesters, if they for some reason were protesting outside a school as it was letting out (which would make no sense) and the kids acted the same in throwing stuff but not hitting anyone, I would have to say that there should be no prosecution and the protesters were in the wrong to start with. However as no gay rights groups is likely to be that stupid.
As it turns out, you are incorrect.Leaders of the battle against Prop. 8 and protesters interviewed outside today's press conference condemned the use of violence, threats of physical harm, and the mailing of an unidentified white powder to two temples of the Mormons, who contributed significantly to the Prop. 8 campaignCite. (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/prop-vassos-leaders-2229235-gay-marriage)

[What Exit?]

I will take it, then, that throwing bottles at people would be fine so long as you miss. Free speech for people with bad aim, IOW.
You might want to read the article in question a little more closely.So it does not seem to have been as spur-of-the-moment as you seem to allege.

As it turns out, you are incorrect.Cite. (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/prop-vassos-leaders-2229235-gay-marriage)
First, I apologize. I was wrong. It was not spur of the moment. This does change my opinion a bit.
Second, there is still a difference between minors (kids) and adults. This addresses your desire to prosecute. No one was hurt. Let it drop or let the school handle it.
Third, the incidents of sending the white powder is stupid and juvenile. It should be pursued by the law. It is still not quite the same as what we were talking about however. Let’s say the Prop 8 opponents were protesting and harassing the kids leaving a Mormon school. That would be the equivalent. If those students threw things at the Prop 8 protesters but did not hit them I would again say the kids should not be arrested and the Prop 8 protesters were in the wrong.
Fourth, you never did address the false opening statement of “Sorry to interrupt the love fest” when only myself and Hypno-Toad seem to really be supporting the kids and most posters are on your side but without the opening insulting tone. You should think about retracting it.

Jim

[NinjaChick]

Sorry to interrupt the love fest, but this is unacceptable, and the students who did it deserve to be prosecuted.

Violent protest is always wrong. It isn't wrong just when I disagree with the protesters, but always.
So the American Revolution was wrong?

Violent protest isn't good, no, but it's sometimes necessary to right a greater wrong.

[Shodan]

For a half-dozen homophobic attention trolls? Please.

[NinjaChick]

For a half-dozen homophobic attention trolls? Please.
I didn't say it was right in this situation - though I do think the Phelps clan would go away if someone finally stood up to them and knocked them around. I just disagreed with your statement that violent protest is always wrong.

[Little Nemo]

I didn't say it was right in this situation - though I do think the Phelps clan would go away if someone finally stood up to them and knocked them around. I just disagreed with your statement that violent protest is always wrong.Some people have speculated that the Phelpses don't really care all that much about gays. What they're actually seeking is public outrage and being assaulted. Some counter-protesters have attacked the Phelps demonstrators. And the Phelps clan (which pointedly contains more lawyers than clergymen) has always filed civil suits. Their whole protest may just be something they're doing for the money.