American's are too dumb for an Obama presidency.

[Biggirl]

In the WorldNutDaily pit thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495989) I posted a link to this article Academic Elites Fill Obama's Roster (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28092935/) and I was going to leave it at that. But the more I thought about this article, the angrier I became.

While Obama's picks have been lauded for their ethnic and ideological mix, they lack diversity in one regard: They are almost exclusively products of the nation's elite institutions and generally share a more intellectual outlook than is often the norm in government.

Because the norm in government for the last eight years have been graduates from barely accredited Bible colleges. Don't believe me? From the article:

Dozens of administration members hail from Regent University, founded by Pat Robertson.

And Bush's model worked out so well for this country.


The Ivy-laced network taking hold in Washington is drawing scorn from many conservatives, who have in recent decades decried the leftward drift of academia and cast themselves as defenders of regular Americans against highbrow snobbery.

Because 'regular Americans' are a bunch of dumb fucks with no education and a good education is nothing but "highbrow snobbery".


How about we try this. We wait until Obama is President and when he fucks up (and he will. He's only human) we can jump all over his shit. Until then, lets stop making up shit to attack. Obama's cabinet is too smart for America? What the fucking fuck?

[Equipoise]

[gentle suggestion]You might want to get a mod to take out that apostrophe. It's a tad embarrassing considering the Subject line. [/gentle suggestion]

Otherwise, right on! The last thing conservatives want is an educated and intelligent populace.

[mshar253]

Is your thread title a joke?

[Beware of Doug]

They're desperate and deluded over at WeirdNutDeadly. Desperate because the will of the people has been shoved in their face and smushed around good. Deluded because they've held on so long and so tightly to the gospel that Education is Elitism that it's now a death grip.

[Shagnasty]

i 4 1 welcum moore smart people in office. Teh reprisant poeple lik me witch is wg=hat we needed foer quit some tim.

[tdn]

i 4 1 welcum moore smart people in office. Teh reprisant poeple lik me witch is wg=hat we needed foer quit some tim.

U mispelld "smarterer'.

[mswas]

I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.
William F. Buckley, Jr.

Anyone who doesn't understand that academic myopia can lead to being out of touch with common people's issues, is also too stupid for an Obama Presidency. ;)

[Ethilrist]

I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.
William F. Buckley, Jr.

Anyone who doesn't understand that academic myopia can lead to being out of touch with common people's issues, is also too stupid for an Obama Presidency. ;)

Has he been appointing sitting faculty to top positions, or just people who went to Ivy league colleges? The latter, I'm okay with.

[sturmhauke]

I like this bit:
They are really smart people, but they will never take an obvious solution if they can think of an ingenious one. They're all too clever by half. These degrees confer knowledge but not judgment. Their heads are on grander themes . . . and they'll trip on obstacles on the ground.
I'll take "knowledge but not judgment" over the lack of both that the current administration has been working with.

[Chimera]

I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.
William F. Buckley, Jr.

Smug Alphabeticist Elitist Bastard. Those people get to be first in everything, just because they won the birth lottery and got the names beginning with 'A'.

When I take over the world, I'm going to create a new alphabet based on phoenetics, where no two characters make the same damned sound, but likewise one character won't make 10 different sounds. Then we'll finally be able to spell everything properly and those goddamned A people will be relegated to the end of the list, where we'll put the vowels.


Chimera (whose real name is much much further down the alphabet)

[Digital Stimulus]

Smug Alphabeticist Elitist Bastard. Those people get to be first in everything, just because they won the birth lottery and got the names beginning with 'A'.
Y'know, my wife used to claim that half the reason she married me was to improve her alphabetical standing; she moved up from one of the last letters to top 1/3. Of course, she also said that the other half of the reason was the turkey stuffing I make.

At least she's got her priorities straight! :D

[Biggirl]

My son just informed me that i r dum. This is why I can't get into Obama's cabinet.

[Mr. Moto]

You know, it isn't just the nuts at WorldNetDaily wondering about the Obama picks - the article quoted didn't come from them, and that same article ran in the Washington Post. Similar articles pointing out this potential issue have run in the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11162227), the Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/index.php?id=1031) and even the Harvard Crimson. (http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=525787)

Personally, I have nothing against Ivy Leaguers - I'm even related to a couple. But I got a pretty good education at the University of Pittsburgh. I'm sure posters here attended college all over, including (like my brother) the proverbial College of Hard Knocks.

It's a shame that such people as us won't likely be considered for high picks in an Obama administration. And frankly, that seems strange - Democrats seem to look out for the little guy and did so much in the past to build up these land grant and other public colleges, not to mention small private schools.

There was some sneering during the campaign about Sarah Palin and the fact that she graduated from the University of Idaho after several transfers and about an extra year of study. It was just about the worst kind of snobbery from people whose own academic career was often hardly more distinguished, and sent an awful message. These picks send another in the aggregate, and Democrats ought to consider how they look.

Right now the Democratic Party is strong among the working class and among the professional class - and the priorities of the one don't coincide with the other right down the line. This is one example of this, and one area where the Republicans will easily have an opening if the Democrats aren't careful.

[Roderick Femm]

I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.
William F. Buckley, Jr.I don't suppose this could have anything to do with the fact that Buckley went to Yale?

(of course, unlike our beloved GWB, he probably actually learned something there)


Roddy

[Really Not All That Bright]

There was some sneering during the campaign about Sarah Palin and the fact that she graduated from the University of Idaho after several transfers and about an extra year of study. It was just about the worst kind of snobbery from people whose own academic career was often hardly more distinguished, and sent an awful message. These picks send another in the aggregate, and Democrats ought to consider how they look.
Meh. I went to Mediocre Regional State U, by choice, and there were plenty of brilliant people there - but it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have gone to Yale or Princeton, all things being equal.

Personally, I'd prefer that my world leaders go to Oxford, MIT, the Sorbonne, etc. than Good Football Okay Academics College.

[Shayna]

It's a shame that such people as us won't likely be considered for high picks in an Obama administration. Oh what fucking tripe. I want the best goddamn people in this nation to be in charge of running it, not "people like us". And I don't give a crap where they got their education, nor, I'm sure, does Barack Obama.

This is the most ridiculously stupid thing I have heard in a long time.

[Malacandra]

I, for one, welcome our new misapostrophised overlord's.

[Merijeek]

Oh what fucking tripe. I want the best goddamn people in this nation to be in charge of running it, not "people like us". And I don't give a crap where they got their education, nor, I'm sure, does Barack Obama.

This is the most ridiculously stupid thing I have heard in a long time.

Well, sure, but it's another example of Why Democrats Are Unfit To Lead.

Isn't that what really matters?

-Joe

[ShibbOleth]

I, for one, welcome our new misapostrophised overlord's.

Quoted for brilyuns.

[Terrifel]

It's a shame that such people as us won't likely be considered for high picks in an Obama administration. No, it really isn't.

[Biggirl]

Seriously. Where in the hell did that apostrophe come from? What the hell is wrong with the OP? What was she thinking? Is our children learning?

[mswas]

Seriously. Where in the hell did that apostrophe come from? What the hell is wrong with the OP? What was she thinking? Is our children learning?

A 'D' in English? That's unpossible!

[Lobsang]

It came from your keyboard, bad keyboard.

[Hampshire]

I've seen articles like this:
Obama's appointments not liberal enough (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/us/politics/09obama.html?ref=politics)

Maybe for once we have a president that won't be surrounding himself with his conservative or liberal buddies but rather finding the person best fit for the job.
Maybe for once we have a president who's goal it is to not push a liberal or conservative agenda but an agenda of doing what's best for the country parties be damned.

[Smeghead]

Go 'way! I'm 'batin'!

-Smeghead, current Ivy League PhD student

[UncleBeer]

The biggest fault with the original post isn't the punctuation, it's the narrow timeframe selected. The "norm" almost certainly does not mean only the 8 years of Dubya's administration. The "norm" is drawn from a much longer span of time.

[Mr. Moto]

Meh. I went to Mediocre Regional State U, by choice, and there were plenty of brilliant people there - but it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have gone to Yale or Princeton, all things being equal.

Well, I would have liked to go there as well - but not all of us can. I could have attended a far more selective school than Pitt - but these were more expensive and that was a consideration. It is today as well for most of these schools.

Personally, I'd prefer that my world leaders go to Oxford, MIT, the Sorbonne, etc. than Good Football Okay Academics College.

Well, what about the Naval Academy? Or Southwest Texas State Teachers' College? Or Kansas City Law School?

Look, I don't think this is terribly important - but it is revealing in a way. And while too much can be made of this, there might be a problem here both in perception and in the quality of advice President Obama might get from this crowd.

[BrainGlutton]

I recall the wife of an old Air Force buddy of my Dad -- they live in Denver -- on a visit to Florida one time, complaining about the "Ivy League Mafia" -- smartass dogooders proclaiming de haut en bas (not her words, of course), "We're here to help you!"

Yes, it's a very ignorant outlook -- we're talking here about the good kind of "elitism" -- but not so much so as to be entirely dismissed out of hand; elitism as such always has certain odious characteristics that can't be washed away, and the non-elite will never miss the scent.

At any rate, it's an outlook millions of Americans share.

[Biggirl]

The biggest fault with the original post isn't the punctuation, it's the narrow timeframe selected. The "norm" almost certainly does not mean only the 8 years of Dubya's administration. The "norm" is drawn from a much longer span of time.


You know, I was going to point out that the article first talks about 'the norm' and then goes on to talk about how Clinton had "intellectuals" in his cabinet. As did FDR and JFK (apparently, Republican presidents get all their picks from Special Olympics Medal winners), so the 'norm' Mr. MacGillis is talking about is the norm for the last 8 years.

If I were a conservative, I'd want to punch Mr. MacGillis right through his non-thinking cap.

[BrainGlutton]

As you can read in Before the Storm (http://www.amazon.com/Before-Storm-Goldwater-Unmaking-Consensus/dp/1568584121/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228777122&sr=8-2) and Nixonland, (http://www.amazon.com/Nixonland-Rise-President-Fracturing-America/dp/0743243021/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b) both by Rick Perlstein, it was part of the "liberal consensus" of the 1940s and 1950s that government and administration should be in the hands of educated Ivy-League experts, and that was one of the things the conservatives who backed Goldwater in 1964 and Nixon in 1968 were rebelling against. Their perception, right or wrong, was that those WASP* elitists (few non-WASPs attended Ivy League schools in those days) were necessarily indoctrinated by their educational institutions in a liberalism scarcely distinguishable from Communism.



*And I'm using WASP in a class-specific sense. As Christopher Hitchens once wrote, "George Wallace might have been a white Protestant of Anglo-Saxon descent, and rather vocal on all three points, but a WASP he was not."

[whole bean]

the Naval Academy? Or Southwest Texas State Teachers' College? Or Kansas City Law School?
one of these things is not like the other

[Lobsang]

Go 'way! I'm 'batin'!

-Smeghead, current Ivy League PhD student

Are you learning to become a Legal type guy, so you can ask for those court thingies?

[UncleBeer]

. . . talk about how Clinton had "intellectuals" in his cabinet.

You mean this part:
And while some Obama nominees started out under Clinton, the former president also filled his team with less-credentialed Arkansas associates, such as Thomas F. "Mack" McLarty, Webster L. Hubbell, Vincent W. Foster Jr. and Bruce Lindsey.

And the remarks about JFK's Camelot are equivocal at best.
. . . President John F. Kennedy's "best and brightest" led the country into the Vietnam War.
And botched that miserably.

The conclusion to be drawn is that insularity - no matter whether the source is Ivy League schools, or or one's own idiot acquaintances - probably isn't a good thing for a nation with problems as diverse as ours currently seem to be.

[ShibbOleth]

The conclusion to be drawn is that insularity - no matter whether the source is Ivy League schools, or or one's own idiot acquaintances - probably isn't a good thing for a nation with problems as diverse as ours currently seem to be.

While that is true, the author of the article made a poor case for this. It's one thing to leave the hallowed halls of Harvard or Yale to take a political appointment. Most of Obama's appointments seem to come with real world experience, as is the case with his picks for Secretary of Defense and National Security Adviser.

[BrainGlutton]

The conclusion to be drawn is that insularity - no matter whether the source is Ivy League schools, or or one's own idiot acquaintances - probably isn't a good thing for a nation with problems as diverse as ours currently seem to be.

Quite true. Nevertheless, ceteris paribus, the POTUS is much likelier to get good advice from Ivy League grads than from grads of the Naval Academy, Southwest Texas State Teachers College, or Kansas City Law School.

[Bosstone]

Obama's cabinet picks clearly aren't that smart. He has yet to tap Colbert for anything.

[mswas]

Obama's cabinet picks clearly aren't that smart. He has yet to tap Colbert for anything.

I doubt St. Stephen swings that way. ;)

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Obama's cabinet picks clearly aren't that smart. He has yet to tap Colbert for anything.

Seriously. And the guy was almost president.

[hawksgirl]

I doubt St. Stephen swings that way. ;)

I bet he would for a Cabinet post. ;)

[MaxTheVool]

I'm quite irked by the generally anti-intellectual attitude which assumes that people who are in academia, or related to academia, are automatically somehow unable to actually think about, or care about, real issues relating to real people.

Here's an exchange I had with Liberal about this topic a few years ago:



I'm not at all sure whether intelligence is any more important than character. I'd sooner trust the vote of a simple-minded old man from Harlem who lived his life in the service of his family, friends, and neighbors than the vote of a genius jackass from Harvard who wants to tell me how to run my life.

Isn't that a bit of a false dichotomy, though? I mean, not that I'm in any way endorsing the OP's plan, but what if your choices are a simple-minded old man from Harlem who lived his life in the service of his family, friends and neighbors, and a genius Harvard professor who spent his entire professional life studying political science, sociology and/or economics, and who is a truly ethical, goodhearted, decent human being who loves his family, gives back to his community, and has devoted his life to figuring out how to improve society?


I'm quite leery of the anti-intellectual tendencies which tell us that simple homsepun folk wisdom are the answers to all of life's problems. What does the simple-minded man from Harlem think about NAFTA? Does he know whether Global Warming is real? How does he feel about ethanol subsidies and alternative fuel research? How much did he know about Al Qaeda before 9/11?

[Morgyn]

And the remarks about JFK's Camelot are equivocal at best.. . . President John F. Kennedy's "best and brightest" led the country into the Vietnam War.

And botched that miserably.Eisenhower, not Kennedy. # 1 November 1955 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_States_and_the_Vietnam_War#Timeline:_Dwight_D._Eisenhower_and_the_Vietnam_War_.281953.E2. 80.931961.29)— Eisenhower deploys the Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the ARVN (South Vietnamese Army). This marks the official beginning of American involvement in the war as recognized by the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.

Admittedly, the first large scale deployment of troops happened under Kennedy, but Eisenhower was the guy who put us there in the first place.

[Dosipede]

Folks were hoping for the Secretary of Education (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2696341173_be5899c3e7.jpg?v=1216851957), perhaps?


Speaking of which, I thought the cabinet members' heads would be bigger.

[Guinastasia]

Eisenhower, not Kennedy.

Admittedly, the first large scale deployment of troops happened under Kennedy, but Eisenhower was the guy who put us there in the first place.

And Johnson's the one who REALLY screwed the pooch. (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?)

[cerberus]

There have been a few comparisons made between Obama's choices and JFK's cabinet. Salient points being that turning your cabinet into a think tank can have problematic results. Then again, the other extreme is just as bad.

The promising bit is that the Obamaniacs are pissed at not utterly dominating the cabinet. It's shaping up in ways that neither party imagined.

[Skylark]

Well, what about the Naval Academy? Or Southwest Texas State Teachers' College? Or Kansas City Law School?

Now Texas State University-San Marcos, home of the Fighting Bobcats. Check out the LBJ Library while you're there, and try the funnel cake.

[Mr. Moto]

Quite true. Nevertheless, ceteris paribus, the POTUS is much likelier to get good advice from Ivy League grads than from grads of the Naval Academy, Southwest Texas State Teachers College, or Kansas City Law School.

Uh huh. You do realize, of course, that I chose those schools because Presidents Carter, Johnson and Truman attended them.

Or maybe you didn't realize that.

[gravitycrash]

As a Republican I am impressed with his choices so far. Yes, even Hillary for Secretary of State. A good leader knows their limitations. Obama knows he lacks Military or foreign experience so he chose some competent people to serve for a while.

Sometimes it is all about leadership. Reagan knew this and surrounded himself with people who were intelligent.

Obama is perfect right now just like Reagan was after the Carter years. So far, I like him. I'll be ducking Republican lightning bolts after this post. I hope you are happy.

[ultrafilter]

Is there any reason to believe that Obama is ignoring the best people and choosing people from the right schools instead? If not, what's the issue?

[Captain Carrot]

The promising bit is that the Obamaniacs are pissed at not utterly dominating the cabinet. Cite? The people at Daily Kos seem fine with many of his choices, if not overly happy with a few.

[Windwalker]

School-tier diversity is about the last thing I care about in a presidential cabinet. It'd be odd if we got to the point where politicians felt obliged to pick someone from Bellevue Community College as their token non-elite-school guy. I think we can start worrying about that after we get our token (openly) gay, token Athiest, and token Muslim at around the SecDef/SecState level. Thankfully we've already filled our Token Black (shout out to Stan & Kyle) for this administration.

[cerberus]

Multitudes of Cites (http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+cabinet+liberal+complaints&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

[gonzomax]

I read a few blogs from Iraq and Iran. They were pretty much saying when Obama got elected they expected business as usual. "A Family in Iraq" has an intelligent woman and her family who are involved in the business of trying to save Iraqis. She said before the election that she expected no difference, but when she heard Obama speak she began to change her mind. She did not hear blustering and threats. She heard an intelligent man careful about his words and doing his best not to be a threatening, blustering small thinking man like our last president. That gave her hope where there was none . I am less convinced but I am hopeful.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Is there any reason to believe that Obama is ignoring the best people and choosing people from the right schools instead? If not, what's the issue?

There is no issue. This is a tiny minority of people who are grasping for something, anything, with which to put Obama down.

OMG, he's picking elitist snoberies for his cabinet posts!!!!!1111 Why don't he pick someone who went to muh high school? Thinks he's too good for us. That uppity... guy.

[Grumman]

The last thing conservatives want is an educated and intelligent populace.
Considering that Obama's nominee for Secretary of State has said similarly anti-intellectual bullshit, I wouldn't say it's just a problem with conservatives.

[Siam Sam]

Obama's cabinet is too smart for America? What the fucking fuck?

This could be true. I told my wife I would never vote for a black man for president, but then I thought John McCain was the black man and so voted for Obama by mistake. D'oh! :smack: I'll bet this happened to a lot of voters.

[Really Not All That Bright]

OMG, he's picking elitist snoberies for his cabinet posts!!!!!1111 Why don't he pick someone who went to muh high school? Thinks he's too good for us. That uppity... guy.
Perhaps we could hold a Cabinet Draft, and have the Commissioner Speaker of the House stand on stage and announce each appointee's alma mater, position, and legislative statistics.

[BrainGlutton]

Considering that Obama's nominee for Secretary of State has said similarly anti-intellectual bullshit, I wouldn't say it's just a problem with conservatives.

Cite?

[Grumman]

Cite?
I'm referring to her attacks on "elite opinion" and economists when she was proposing a gas tax holiday. Take your pick of cite. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Clinton+%22elite+opinion%22&btnG=Search)

[Zoe]

Are people actually complaining that Obama is choosing people who are too intelligent? Does intelligent and well-educated automatically mean "out of touch with the common man"?

Mr. Moto: And while too much can be made of this, there might be a problem here both in perception and in the quality of advice President Obama might get from this crowd.

As opposed to that crowd of human rights abusers? Comb-lickers? Warmongers? Non-critical thinkers? Uncredentialled FEMA directors? Vindictive cover blowers? Mis-intelligence gatherers?

I will take my chances with change.

[Ale]

Are people actually complaining that Obama is choosing people who are too intelligent? Does intelligent and well-educated automatically mean "out of touch with the common man"?

[Shifty eyes]
This one asks smart questions
[/Shift Eyes]

When your opponent suggest that you should dumb down you choices you must assume that they don't have the best of intentions towards you.
Either because you'll make them look bad by contrasting the stupidity of their own ways or they'd rather see you flounder in a sea of ineptitude. Or both.

[Liberal]

It's a shame that such people as us won't likely be considered for high picks in an Obama administration. And frankly, that seems strange - Democrats seem to look out for the little guy and did so much in the past to build up these land grant and other public colleges, not to mention small private schools.Asinine. Speaking as a "little guy", I want Obama to select the very best people for the job, which means people who have the know-how and the where-with-all to carry out his vision. Like Janet Naplitano, for example, whose schooling was in Santa Clara and Virgina.

There was some sneering during the campaign about Sarah Palin and the fact that she graduated from the University of Idaho after several transfers and about an extra year of study. It was just about the worst kind of snobbery from people whose own academic career was often hardly more distinguished, and sent an awful message.Sarah Palin is a fucking idiot, and it has nothing to do with what school she attended. She is a bullshitter who gets by on charm and tits. The crowds who wait in line to see her are equally bereft of intellect, and are, in the main, bigots and racists, as a visit to YouTube will show.

Right now the Democratic Party is strong among the working class and among the professional class - and the priorities of the one don't coincide with the other right down the line. This is one example of this, and one area where the Republicans will easily have an opening if the Democrats aren't careful.There's a difference between someone who attends Ivy League on a family legacy and then goes off to make a fortune, and someone who attends on merit and then goes off to change lives. Barack Obama knows the plight of struggling people because he gave his life over to them and lived among them, and in fact struggled a good bit himself. The only thing more socially cursed in this society than being black in the ghetto is being half-black in Kansas.

He is a new kind of leader for the Democrats, and many of them even don't yet understand who he is or what they have. The far left will turn on him before the right does. The left is as bigotted as the right, only in reverse. They assumed that having a black man would mean the fulfillment of all their weirdo left-wing nut dreams. It's as though they didn't even listen during his campaign. Obama is more libertarian than left, both fiscally and socially. That's why I've supported him from the beginning.

[Liberal]

And one more thing. Obama isn't interested in the most clever or most intelligent solutions. He's interested in solutions that work. He isn't appointing people to figure out a vision. The vision is already his, and he's doing what needs to be done to make his vision realized.

[Wendell Wagner]

Liberal writes:

> The only thing more socially cursed in this society than being black in the ghetto
> is being half-black in Kansas.

Obama never lived in Kansas. He probably spent almost no time there even as a child, despite his mother being born there. It's hard to tell if he even knew any of his mother's family who still lived in Kansas. His mother only lived in Kansas for a few years as a child. Her parents left Kansas and moved around the U.S. several times. She graduated from high school in the state of Washington. She and her parents moved just as she graduated because her father got a new job in Hawaii, so she enrolled at the University of Hawaii. Neither she nor her parents ever lived in Kansas again. Obama has no more connection with Kansas than he does with Kenya. He hardly knew his father and only knows Kenya from a couple of visits there, and he may have never visited Kansas. If you're going to talk about Obama's experiences, talk about Hawaii, Indonesia, California, New York, Massachusetts, and Illinois, where he actually lived.

> Obama is more libertarian than left, both fiscally and socially.

Give some examples supporting this idea.

[Mr. Moto]

Obama is more libertarian than left, both fiscally and socially. That's why I've supported him from the beginning.

I'm afraid I'm going to need cites for this as well - nearly all of his campaign rhetoric and his website platform seemed to be garden variety liberalism.

There is a strange tendency for Obama fans to see their policy preferences in him - easy to have happen, as Obama himself can be vague at times. It seems at first glance that Liberal has fallen into this trap.

It happened before with him - he insisted in previous threads that Obama was a principled Second Amendment supporter despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

[BrainGlutton]

Uh huh. You do realize, of course, that I chose those schools because Presidents Carter, Johnson and Truman attended them.

Or maybe you didn't realize that.

No, but it makes no difference, what I said remains true.

[Kalhoun]

Oh what fucking tripe. I want the best goddamn people in this nation to be in charge of running it, not "people like us". And I don't give a crap where they got their education, nor, I'm sure, does Barack Obama.

This is the most ridiculously stupid thing I have heard in a long time.

As a wise person somewhere said, "I don't want to sit down and have a beer with the president. I want him to be a LOT smarter than me and I want him to run the fucking country."

[Chief Pedant]

Since nearly 80% ot the public approves of Mr Obama's transition efforts, and since this is an extraordinarily high rating http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/Obama.poll/ it's dumb to extrapolate from a minority opinion that "American's (sic) are too dumb for an Obama presidency."

Of course, half of all Americans have IQ's under 100, so the approval rating doesn't signify intelligence, either.

[Kalhoun]

Are people actually complaining that Obama is choosing people who are too intelligent? Does intelligent and well-educated automatically mean "out of touch with the common man"?



As opposed to that crowd of human rights abusers? Comb-lickers? Warmongers? Non-critical thinkers? Uncredentialled FEMA directors? Vindictive cover blowers? Mis-intelligence gatherers?

I will take my chances with change.

Bra-fucking-VO.

[Revtim]

Whenever conservatives whine about the "intelligentsia" it reminds of the dumb kids who sat in the back of the class who could not get peer approval for success, so they high-fived each other when they got Fs and made fun of the nerds.

[Shodan]

So we are agreed - people who graduate from Harvard and Yale (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/biography.html) can be presumed to be better qualified than someone who flunked out of law school and divinity school (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm).

Regards,
Shodan

[Enderw24]

Sigh,

No. What we CAN agree on is the mere fact of going to Yale or Harvard (or other Ivy league schools) shouldn't disqualify you from a position requiring great intelligence just because...you have a great intelligence.

But merely going to the school does not, by default, make you intelligent or qualified to be in a cabinet position.

I really can't believe we're having this conversation.

[ultrafilter]

So we are agreed - people who graduate from Harvard and Yale (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/biography.html) can be presumed to be better qualified than someone who flunked out of law school and divinity school (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm).

Regards,
Shodan

If you honestly believe that this is a useful contribution to the discussion, you're dumber than a warehouse full of rocks. I suspect you don't, and that you're just trying to get a rise out of the liberals.

[BrainGlutton]

As a wise person somewhere said, "I don't want to sit down and have a beer with the president. I want him to be a LOT smarter than me and I want him to run the fucking country."

I think it was John Stewart.

"I don't want the president to be a regular guy, I want him to be embarrassingly superior! Like this guy!" [pic appears of one of the huge-headed Talosians from the Star Trek pilot "The Menagerie" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menagerie_(Star_Trek))] "Mr. President, there is trouble in the Middle East!" [scrunches up eyes and makes humming noise] "It is done."

[BrainGlutton]

If you honestly believe that this is a useful contribution to the discussion . . .

Does he ever?

[Euphonious Polemic]

So we are agreed - people who graduate from Harvard and Yale (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/biography.html) can be presumed to be better qualified than someone who flunked out of law school and divinity school (http://www.larryelder.com/Gore/goredubiousrecord.htm).

Regards,
Shodan


Congratulations Shodan! With this post, you have locked up the award for "Missing the fucking point completely"! The judges cited your persistence and your tenuous grasp of reality as "really standing out in a class by themselves"

[tomndebb]

And the remarks about JFK's Camelot are equivocal at best.
. . . President John F. Kennedy's "best and brightest" led the country into the Vietnam War.
And botched that miserably.

Eisenhower, not Kennedy.
# 1 November 1955 — Eisenhower deploys the Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the ARVN (South Vietnamese Army). This marks the official beginning of American involvement in the war as recognized by the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.Admittedly, the first large scale deployment of troops happened under Kennedy, but Eisenhower was the guy who put us there in the first place.Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase "the best and the brightest" refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Johnson retained the majority of Kennedy's staff in the early days of his presidency--corresponding to the time when the war was ramped up and the policies of the next seven years established.

[Shodan]

Since nearly 80% ot the public approves of Mr Obama's transition efforts, and since this is an extraordinarily high rating http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/Obama.poll/ it's dumb to extrapolate from a minority opinion that "American's (sic) are too dumb for an Obama presidency."Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn't dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out.

Regards,
Shodan

[UncleBeer]

I think it was John Stewart.

"I don't want the president to be a regular guy, I want him to be embarrassingly superior! Like this guy!" [pic appears of one of the huge-headed Talosians from the Star Trek pilot "The Menagerie" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menagerie_(Star_Trek))] "Mr. President, there is trouble in the Middle East!" [scrunches up eyes and makes humming noise] "It is done."

I realize this is probably only in jest, but I'm pretty sure the presidency is already way more than sufficiently imperial. When "The People" expect the president to wave a hand and state, "It is done," and Congress has so thoroughly abdicated its own leadership responsibilities as this one has done, the danger of an imperial presidency should be quite obvious. It leads to exactly the abuses of constitutionally delegated powers and curtailing of freedoms that we've seen in the current administration. The overwhelmingly positive response from "The People" to the incoming Obama administations actions leads me to believe we're likely to head yet farther down this dangerous pass.

[Mr. Moto]

Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase "the best and the brightest" refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

It's doubly ironic because Kennedy got the nomination in the first place by disparaging Stevenson, who Bobby Kennedy especially denigrated as an effeminate and ineffective intellectual. The more liberal wing of the Democratic Party was pressing for Stevenson to be appointed Secretary of State after the election - the Kennedys offered him instead the UN ambassadorship, not seen then as a plum administration job.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn't dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out.

Regards,
Shodan

Your timing is off there little buddy. Obama has not yet gotten into the White House.

As for your "trashing the whitehouse" meme:
The cites I can find all list $13,000 - $14,000 as the total cost of getting the White House into shape for Bush II. This includes replacing keyboards (the infamous "W Key" episode), and routine cleaning (which is always done as a matter of course).

Naturally, the partisan investigation into this "trashiing" cost much more than that. If Bush's transition was thrown off by a minor annoyance, it speaks volumes for his teams inability to function.

But then you're not particularly interested in the facts, are you Shodan?

I guess I'll try to be more Shodanesque then:

"So you're saying that Bush's transition team was unable to appoint capable people to cabinet in December of 2000 because someone was going to remove the "W" keys from the whitehouse keyboards at some later date?"

[UncleBeer]

Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase "the best and the brightest" refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Johnson retained the majority of Kennedy's staff in the early days of his presidency--corresponding to the time when the war was ramped up and the policies of the next seven years established.

None of which negates the pertinency of my point. My comment was made in direct rebuttal to a claim by another poster that her citation indicated the Kennedy administration was populated by academic elites and was a thing to be admired. The article linked clearly stated no such thing; it's evaluation of the Kennedy administration can only be interpreted as equivocal - at best.

[Biggirl]

None of which negates the pertinency of my point. My comment was made in direct rebuttal to a claim by another poster that her citation indicated the Kennedy administration was populated by academic elites and was a thing to be admired. The article linked clearly stated no such thing; it's evaluation of the Kennedy administration can only be interpreted as equivocal - at best.

No, I was not saying Kennedy's choices were 'a thing to be admired'. I was answering your point about the 'norm' being the last 8 years. I was pointing out that the writer says the Obama picks are not the norm for the government and then goes on to state that Clinton and Kennedy's pick were supposedly Ivy elite.

So the article implies that dumb fucks are "the norm" when really it's just been the last eight years. And the last eight years have been anything but normal.

[UncleBeer]

Gotcha. I misunderstood.

However, I think you're missing a few years in your evaluation. We've had considerably more than 4 administrations since the days of FDR.

[Voyager]

Seriously. Where in the hell did that apostrophe come from? What the hell is wrong with the OP? What was she thinking? Is our children learning?

It's the Lynne Truss memorial apostrophe.

[Voyager]

Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase "the best and the brightest" refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Johnson retained the majority of Kennedy's staff in the early days of his presidency--corresponding to the time when the war was ramped up and the policies of the next seven years established.

True, but we aren't sure whether JFK would have escalated the war or quit. LBJ was a consummate politician - much better at that than JFK, but did he feel intellectually equal to JFK's cabinet? (Which did a damn good job during the Cuban Missile crisis, by the way.) Obama clearly is comfortable with a cabinet containing a lot of smart people with a lot of strong opinions.

In my experience - in tech - really smart managers are happy to hire people smarter than they are, while not so smart managers feel diminished by this, and tend to attract not so good people.

[ShibbOleth]

I guess I'll try to be more Shodanesque then:

"So you're saying that Bush's transition team was unable to appoint capable people to cabinet in December of 2000 because someone was going to remove the "W" keys from the whitehouse keyboards at some later date?"

To be fair they were considering bringing in George Will, but somehow could only manage George ill.

[Shodan]

Your timing is off there little buddy. Obama has not yet gotten into the White House.So?

As for your "trashing the whitehouse" meme:
The cites I can find all list $13,000 - $14,000 as the total cost of getting the White House into shape for Bush II. This includes replacing keyboards (the infamous "W Key" episode), and routine cleaning (which is always done as a matter of course). Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine.

Naturally, the partisan investigation into this "trashiing" cost much more than that. If Bush's transition was thrown off by a minor annoyance, it speaks volumes for his teams inability to function.Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered.

I don't think there is much doubt that you would sprain yourself howling if Bush staffers did anything even remotely similar as a joke.

Sauce for the goose never seems to be sauce for the gander on the SDMB. If a Republican picks graduates of elite Eastern schools for his cabinet, it is because he is out of touch with the problems of real Americans. If Obama does it, it is because he wants the best and brightest. If Bush pushes a ruinously expensive stimulus package, it is because he is trying to ruin the country on the way out due to malice. If Obama pushes a ruinously expensive stimulus package, it is because he has a cunning plan to end the recession. Bush wants to cut taxes and raise spending, he is a Nazi. Obama promises to cut taxes and increase spending, it is because he is a genius.

I'm almost hoping Obama invades Iran or something, just to watch you clowns soil yourselves coming up with rationalizations.

Regards,
Shodan

[Malacandra]

To be fair they were considering bringing in George Will, but somehow could only manage George ill.

George III? I thought you guys had a stick up your ass about him like 232 years ago, or something.

[Jenaroph]

Sauce for the goose never seems to be sauce for the gander on the SDMB. If a Republican picks graduates of elite Eastern schools for his cabinet, it is because he is out of touch with the problems of real Americans. If Obama does it, it is because he wants the best and brightest.
Would you please provide an example of a doper deriding a Republican appointee because said appointee is a graduate of an elite Eastern school, rather than for said appointee's policies and actions?

[Miller]

Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn't dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out.

Regards,
Shodan

Well, after what they've done to the country, trashing the White House just seems superfluous.

[Euphonious Polemic]

So?Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine.Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered.

Certainly compared with the normal costs of a presidential transition, yes.


I don't think there is much doubt that you would sprain yourself howling if Bush staffers did anything even remotely similar as a joke.

Actually, there is a great deal of doubt on this point. You don't know me from squat. You, on the other hand, have a clear and consistent knee-jerk reaction to everyone and everything on this board. If some of Bush II's staff did something that was mildly humourous such as removing the "W" keys, I would go "meh".

Your main problem seems to be that you ascribe devious and malicious motives to everyone here.... Project much?

[Pashnish Ewing]

So?Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine.Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered.I thought I remembered a Snopes article that debunked the vandalism story (but confirmed the removal of the W keys), but I just searched and can't find it. Can anyone else out there give it a shot?

[Euphonious Polemic]

I thought I remembered a Snopes article that debunked the vandalism story (but confirmed the removal of the W keys), but I just searched and can't find it. Can anyone else out there give it a shot?

The report of the GAO office From the New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDE163CF931A25755C0A9649C8B63)

It looks like there were some horrifying things done by the outgoing Clinton Staffers*:
Six White House employees told investigators that they had seen graffiti derogatory to Mr. Bush on the wall of a stall in a men's room. Other White House employees saw a sticker in a filing cabinet that said, ''Jail to the thief,'' implying that Mr. Bush had stolen the 2000 election.

It looks like a vast amount of money was spent*:
The accounting office confirmed that $9,324 had been spent to repair or replace various items and to clean offices. That included $4,850 for 62 keyboards, $2,040 for 26 cellphones and $1,150 for professional cleaning.

*now, with bonus sarcasm!

Interestingly, I did not "sprain myself howling" when:
The accounting office said similar pranks were reported in prior transitions, including the one from Mr. Bush's father to Mr. Clinton in 1993. ''We were unable to conclude,'' it said, ''whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.''

[BrainGlutton]

Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn't dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out.

Regards,
Shodan

Well, we won't know that until 1/21/09.

Of course, W is already doing plenty of spiteful trashing on his way out. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15982.html)

[Terrifel]

"No one could have predicted that rigging a few harmless fireworks in the Oval Office light fixtures would result in the West Wing burning down."

[Euphonious Polemic]

"No one could have predicted that leaving a burning cross on the white house lawn would have gotten everyone in such a snit. Man those terrorist loving socialists are sure sensitive!"

[Morgyn]

Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase "the best and the brightest" refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam.I wasn't making a point in the discussion. I was making a minor historical correction. Yes, Kennedy's crew pretty much drove the US off the cliff with respect to the conduct of the Vietnam war. However, Kennedy and his crew were not responsible for our presence there. Eisenhower and his administration were.

[As an aside, a college history professor of mine said that the reason Eisenhower sent people to Vietnam was because that was France's price for joining NATO. Can anyone provide information on that?]

[Euphonious Polemic]

I'd actually like to thank Shodan for reminding us that while this discussion may be about whether or not Obama is bringing people into his cabinet that are "too smart", 8 years ago, Bush's team were whining like little titty babies about missing keys and writing on washroom walls.

It gives me great hope for the future.

[BrainGlutton]

I'd actually like to thank Shodan for reminding us that while this discussion may be about whether or not Obama is bringing people into his cabinet that are "too smart", 8 years ago, Bush's team were whining like little titty babies about missing keys and writing on washroom walls.

It gives me great hope for the future.

+1

[LouisB]

And Johnson's the one who REALLY screwed the pooch. (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?)I have a bad memory. What was it that Nixon did, other than go to China?

[BrainGlutton]

I have a bad memory. What was it that Nixon did, other than go to China?

1) Through his connections, scuttled the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 from behind the scenes, ensuring that the war would not end that year and he could run as the "peace candidate."

2) Ran as the "peace candidate," when in fact he never had any intention of ending the war (which he had decided long before was pointless and unwinnable) on any terms that could not be considered an American victory.

3) Kept the war going -- and expanded it, into Laos and Cambodia -- until he was forced out of office, leaving Ford to wind it up.

Much, much blood on his hands.

All documented in Nixonland, (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200805/nixon) by Rick Perlstein.

[Mr. Moto]

I'd actually like to thank Shodan for reminding us that while this discussion may be about whether or not Obama is bringing people into his cabinet that are "too smart", 8 years ago, Bush's team were whining like little titty babies about missing keys and writing on washroom walls.

It gives me great hope for the future.

I have pointed this out several times - this is a willful misreading of what went down.

Bush downplayed initial reports of damage - it was Congressional Republicans that reopened the issue by directing the GAO to conduct an investigation. And while that likely makes little difference to you, it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

[Captain Carrot]

Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn't dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out.I doubt it. However, it might be going better because this time, the election was clearly decided on Tuesday night, not fought about bitterly over the following weeks.

[waterj2]

I have pointed this out several times - this is a willful misreading of what went down.

Bush downplayed initial reports of damage - it was Congressional Republicans that reopened the issue by directing the GAO to conduct an investigation. And while that likely makes little difference to you, it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.Of course, it doesn't change the fact that whatever vandalism that occurred as Clinton left office happened after any pre-inauguration transition efforts by Bush, and could not possibility have hampered his transition team, making [/b]Shodan[/b]'s post just another bullshit example of "Yeah, but Clinton..."

Of course, what really would have been hampering the Bush transition team's efforts at this point in 2000 was the fact that it was only about at this point that the various court cases deciding the election were decided. They certainly did get dealt a pretty shitty hand as far as that goes. It's a good thing we didn't find ourselves dealing with both that mess and the current economic meltdown at the same time.

[alterego]

I would modify the title slightly:

Most American's are too dumb for an Obama presidency.

That would be the Americans who didn't vote, computed with the following formula:

1-(( Obama_voters + McCain_voters)/US population) = 1-(69,058,185+59,700,776)/305,847,124 = 57% of American's are too dumb for an Obama presidency.


A slightly more cynical person might use this formula:
1-(Obama_voters/US population) = 1-(69,058,185)/305,847,124 = 77% of American's are too dumb for an Obama presidency.

[Euphonious Polemic]

I have pointed this out several times - this is a willful misreading of what went down.

Bush downplayed initial reports of damage - it was Congressional Republicans that reopened the issue by directing the GAO to conduct an investigation. And while that likely makes little difference to you, it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

Gee, I'm so fucking sorry that I didn't know WHICH PART of Bush's team were the whiney titty babies. But then you KNEW that I "willfully midread" this because of what now? Bite me.

[LouisB]

1) Through his connections, scuttled the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 from behind the scenes, ensuring that the war would not end that year and he could run as the "peace candidate."

2) Ran as the "peace candidate," when in fact he never had any intention of ending the war (which he had decided long before was pointless and unwinnable) on any terms that could not be considered an American victory.

3) Kept the war going -- and expanded it, into Laos and Cambodia -- until he was forced out of office, leaving Ford to wind it up.

Much, much blood on his hands.

All documented in Nixonland, (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200805/nixon) by Rick Perlstein.Oh, yeah, I remember now. Wasn't there also something about armed soldiers and college kids?

[LouisB]

Originally posted by Shodan:
I'm almost hoping Obama invades Iran or something, just to watch you clowns soil yourselves coming up with rationalizations.We hope to hire you as Chief Consultant for Rationalizations. Your expertise in that field is widely recognized, if not much admired.

[Gyrate]

I for one welcome our slightly-left-of-center intellectual overlords.

[BrainGlutton]

Oh, yeah, I remember now. Wasn't there also something about armed soldiers and college kids?

No, that wasn't Nixon, you're thinking of a gay porn film.

[LouisB]

No, that wasn't Nixon, you're thinking of a gay porn film.You're right but weren't a lot of them wearing Nixon masks?

[Shodan]

Of course, it doesn't change the fact that whatever vandalism that occurred as Clinton left office happened after any pre-inauguration transition efforts by Bush, and could not possibility have hampered his transition team, making Shodan's post just another bullshit example of "Yeah, but Clinton...".
Fixed your coding.

And, of course, you are incorrect - the Bush team was forced to deal with the sort of people who engage in petty vandalism thru out the transition, who had every opportunity to hamper the transition - with, for instance, lawsuits and whining.

Regards,
Shodan

[Euphonious Polemic]

Fixed your coding.

And, of course, you are incorrect - the Bush team was forced to deal with the sort of people who engage in petty vandalism thru out the transition, who had every opportunity to hamper the transition - with, for instance, lawsuits and whining.

Regards,
Shodan

I agree with you that Bush's team were a bunch of whining crying tittie-babies, whereas Obama's team have been masterful and statesmanlike.

[descamisado]

Oh, yeah, I remember now. Wasn't there also something about armed soldiers and college kids?No, that wasn't Nixon, you're thinking of a gay porn film.You're right but weren't a lot of them wearing Nixon masks?This is truly Everything I Always Wanted To Know About Sex But Was Afraid To Ask.

[Mr. Moto]

I agree with you that Bush's team were a bunch of whining crying tittie-babies, whereas Obama's team have been masterful and statesmanlike.

Strange, though - Bush has been getting a lot of credit for making the current transition as painless as possible for the new president (or at least as much as external events will allow.) An unprecedented amount of planning has been done at every federal agency, and the Office of the President-Elect has been elevated to far more stature than previously held.

Frankly, I give Obama and Bush alike credit for this - they have been going about this the right way. The variable seems to be Bill Clinton, and we can surmise from how he handled himself in January of 2001 that he hadn't gone about making things easier for the incoming administration. Indeed, even on Inauguration Day he was still inspecting troops and doing his level best to hog the spotlight for as many minutes as he could.

[Chessic Sense]

Personally, I have nothing against Ivy Leaguers - I'm even related to a couple. But I got a pretty good education at the University of Pittsburgh. I'm sure posters here attended college all over, including (like my brother) the proverbial College of Hard Knocks.

It's a shame that such people as us won't likely be considered for high picks in an Obama administration. And frankly, that seems strange - Democrats seem to look out for the little guy and did so much in the past to build up these land grant and other public colleges, not to mention small private schools.


Hail to Pitt! Hopefully I'll be working in Gov't here shortly.

[Mr. Moto]

Hail to Pitt!

Penn State sucks!
Penn State sucks!
P-E-N-N-S-T SUCKS!

;)

[Euphonious Polemic]

The variable seems to be Bill Clinton, and we can surmise from how he handled himself in January of 2001 that he hadn't gone about making things easier for the incoming administration. Indeed, even on Inauguration Day he was still inspecting troops and doing his level best to hog the spotlight for as many minutes as he could.

Ah yes, how I well remember how Bill Clinton was trying to thwart Mr. Bush's orderly transition at every opportunity.

Wait, I don't

You would not have a cite would you? Hopefully something stronger than "hogging the spotlight". That seems very lame.

A rhetorical question? How long are we going to have to put up with the fairytale that Bush would have been a great president if it were not for that Pesky Clinton?

[anu-la1979]

Jesus Christ-how is this different from any other "elite" institution trying to attract people who have demonstrated academic achievement in some measurable fashion? Take a gander at the academic backgrounds of anyone at a top law firm-nearly all of them are cut from the same Top 25 school cloth-and honestly, most of them are Top 14. And they have GPA requirements on top of that (Baker and Mackenzie once automatically kicked me off the OCI list because my GPA was something like .01 below their cut-off, my ex-boyfriend got rejected from Skadden Arps as head of the law journal at UCLA). Where do all the monkeys in private equity, hedge funds, and investment banks come from? Have you taken a look at the application to work at Google? They bloody well ask for your SAT score the last time I was looked! Is Mr. Moto whining about the recruiting policies at Cravath, Oppenheimer and Google?

All these institutions make a small percentage exception for people who may not have attended Ivy+ schools but have proven themselves with stellar GPAs, publications, and the sort of snivelling rapacious social climbing ambition necessary to claw your way into and up the ladder at these places. If you spend umpteen hours on the Dope, you don't have it. If you did you'd be too busy grubbing your nose to the grindstone and stabbing your co-workers in the back to climb to the top of the midden heap to spend any time pontificating to the masses on the internet.

Granted these morons greedily ran the economy into the ground but until someone complaining about Obama's appointees makes the case that Berkshire Hathaway ought to be managed by Koko the Gorilla and Sarah Palin they ought to just shut up.

Goddamn, the next four years are going to be the last 8 years in reverse. Bush does maybe one thing half right and the lefts still jump all over him. Obama decides maybe he'd like the goblins in charge of your tax money to have aspired to more than the Staten Island Community College School of Finance and Such and it's a "damn shame folks like us won't get the chance to serve." Well, fuck, this is America, the land of Second and Third Educational chances. If you screwed up undergrad, study hard for your LSATs and Nixon it up to the White House. It's not like he went anywhere special for undergrad either (couldn't afford it).

[Siam Sam]

You're right but weren't a lot of them wearing Nixon masks?

I actually did see a porn film in which someone wore a Nixon mask, but it was not during a naughty part. It was a brief interlude when a main character walked past a used-car lot, and Nixon was a salesman trying to get him to buy a used car. This was back in the days when porn movies still had story lines.

[BrainGlutton]

And, of course, you are incorrect - the Bush team was forced to deal with the sort of people who engage in petty vandalism thru out the transition, who had every opportunity to hamper the transition - with, for instance, lawsuits and whining.

:dubious: Gore's contesting the blatantly illegal Florida election results in court was not "petty vandalism."

The only "petty vandalism" in that contest was committed by the Pubs who came down to Florida Mau-Mauing the election officials with their fatuous "SORE LOSERMAN" signs.

As you know.

[BrainGlutton]

Strange, though - Bush has been getting a lot of credit for making the current transition as painless as possible for the new president (or at least as much as external events will allow.)

:confused: No, he hasn't. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15982.html)

[Euphonious Polemic]

:confused: No, he hasn't. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15982.html)

I think this is the money quote:
Last May, White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten wrote a memo instructing federal agency heads to make sure any new regulations were finalized by Nov. 1. The memo didn’t spell it out, but the thinking behind the directive was obvious. As Myron Ebell of the conservative Competitive Enterprise Institute put it: “We’re not going to make the same mistakes the Clinton administration did.”

President Bill Clinton finalized regulations within 60 days of the 2001 inauguration, meaning Bush could come in and easily reverse them. Regulations that have been final for more than 60 days are much more difficult to overturn.

In other words, Bush's team is making it MUCH MORE DIFFICULT for the incoming Obama administration.

Good thing Obama is bringing some qualified people to his team, rather than horse show judges and inexperienced sycophants.

[Siam Sam]

I think this is the money quote:


In other words, Bush's team is making it MUCH MORE DIFFICULT for the incoming Obama administration.

Good thing Obama is bringing some qualified people to his team, rather than horse show judges and inexperienced sycophants.

That seems like it should be normal business for any administration regardless of party. Clinton probably should have done it, too. Any president is going to want his policies carried forward, but that's not neccessarily going to affect the logistics of a transition.

[BrainGlutton]

That seems like it should be normal business for any administration regardless of party. Clinton probably should have done it, too. Any president is going to want his policies carried forward, but that's not neccessarily going to affect the logistics of a transition.

Nor will West Wing graffiti nor removing keyboard keys.

I'm just glad W isn't making use of this period to bomb Iran. That would affect, etc.

[gonzomax]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/10/obama.energy/index.html Heres todays addition. Chu is the new energy chief. He is a physicist and the head of Livermore Labs.

[Euphonious Polemic]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/10/obama.energy/index.html Heres todays addition. Chu is the new energy chief. He is a physicist and the head of Livermore Labs.

This egghead does not sound like the kind of down-to-earth guy that I could have a beer with. I know a guy who pumps gas down at the Pay n' Save who would make a great Energy Chief. He would do a heckof a job.

[Merijeek]

This egghead does not sound like the kind of down-to-earth guy that I could have a beer with. I know a guy who pumps gas down at the Pay n' Save who would make a great Energy Chief. He would do a heckof a job.

Well, sure. He never wastes a drop. I'd like to see the egghead pull that off. Does he have the decades of experience with the AX01450 that Flick has? I don't think so.

-Joe

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

In the WorldNutDaily pit thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495989) I posted a link to this article Academic Elites Fill Obama's Roster (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28092935/) and I was going to leave it at that. But the more I thought about this article, the angrier I became.



Because the norm in government for the last eight years have been graduates from barely accredited Bible colleges. Don't believe me? From the article:


And Bush's model worked out so well for this country.



Because 'regular Americans' are a bunch of dumb fucks with no education and a good education is nothing but "highbrow snobbery".


How about we try this. We wait until Obama is President and when he fucks up (and he will. He's only human) we can jump all over his shit. Until then, lets stop making up shit to attack. Obama's cabinet is too smart for America? What the fucking fuck?

Wr can haz r dum!

I do agree with your point though. The exaltation of ignorance is extremely detrimental. Although, come to think of it, I don't think many of the actual neocon leaders and pols came from "barely accredited Bible colleges." Bush, for example, went to Yale, as did Bush I. Yet many fellow travelers do berate "innalekshulisim".

[Merijeek]

Wr can haz r dum!

I do agree with your point though. The exaltation of ignorance is extremely detrimental. Although, come to think of it, I don't think many of the actual neocon leaders and pols came from "barely accredited Bible colleges." Bush, for example, went to Yale, as did Bush I. Yet many fellow travelers do berate "innalekshulisim".

Many fellow travelers also think Bush is a "texan", "cowboy" and "regular guy".

-Joe

[gonzomax]

This egghead does not sound like the kind of down-to-earth guy that I could have a beer with. I know a guy who pumps gas down at the Pay n' Save who would make a great Energy Chief. He would do a heckof a job.

Problem is he probably does not know how to make money off the job. A poor example of our politicians the last few years.
How can you trust someone you can not buy?