Which state is the most messed up?

[Palo Verde]

(This is a sister thread to the one asking for which state has its act the most together. All positive comment should go there)

Which of the 50 states in America is just the most overall messed up?

I mean things like the state that is most corrupt, has a bad education system, is in debt, had unrepaired streets and bridges, etc etc

All states have spots of beauty and some great aspects, but which one is just simply the most unorganized and badly run?

[Shagnasty]

I mean things like the state that is most corrupt, has a bad education system, is in debt, had unrepaired streets and bridges, etc etc

My home state of Louisiana is an obvious contender based on the above criteria but the fact that it has New Orleans itself and a rather unique culture disqualifies it in my mind.

[Airblairxxx]

California.

It's looking at a budget deficit of $41.8 billion dollars by 2010. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget11-2008dec11,0,4280427.story)

By way of comparison, it's expecting to bring in $86 billion in revenues next year.

It has a stupid process of ballot propositions, which basically makes the state ungovernable. For example, it requires a 2/3 majority of the legislature to pass the annual budget. This means that no budget is passed until long after it is due. There's also a 2/3 majority requirement to raise any taxes. Which means that taxes will never be raised.

And Republicans use this tyranny of the minority to insist on balancing the budget solely through deep spending cuts.

To erase the deficit with spending cuts alone, (nonpartisan legislature budget analyst Mac) Taylor said, would require the elimination of all funding for state universities, welfare, developmental services, mental health and in-home supportive services.

That's one example. Or you could release all the prisoners. That would help. Not even Republicans are going to vote for any of that.

Source: Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cap11-2008dec11,0,4941409.column)

For some reason, Californians like to blame the legislature for this state of affairs. When it's our own fucking fault.

[ftg]

IMHO, you start in MS and work your way out. AL, LA, TN, GA, AK, etc. End up with OR and WA. (AK and HI I guess must be edens by this rule!)

CA has budget stupidity that will start causing huge problems soon, but for the moment they still have functioning schools, road system, prisons, etc.

There was an article recently listing states by corruption and GA scored quite low. But the criteria was convictions. GA has the weakest corruption laws and no enforcement of those. So guess why the number of convictions is low. Stupid, stupid, list.

[Shoeless]

Kansas, because we have Fred Phelps.

Top that!

[shallora]

Louisiana.

Hands down.

No debate needed.

[bannerrefugee]

Texas
We gave you George Bush and our current gov is Rick Perry

[Rigamarole]

Gotta say good old Cali.

[notfrommensa]

Illinois deserves a nomination: Chicago Politics is notorious and many of the recent governors have had scandals.

[dolphinboy]

Well Illinois seems to have some challenges with corruption I hear....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3710804/Illinois-scandal-Corruption-as-usual.html

[black rabbit]

Tennessee. They have a 5.5% sales tax on groceries.

Nothing says "Fuck the poor" like taxing their food.

[Zsofia]

Only Florida has its own Fark tag.

And we only just now stopped taxing groceries. When I was a kid I thought everybody did.

[Erdosain]

Tennessee. They have a 5.5% sales tax on groceries.

Nothing says "Fuck the poor" like taxing their food.

There are sales tax states that don't tax groceries? Well, I'll be. I just checked Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States), and they claim CT doesn't charge sales tax on unprepared food. Maybe I only buy prepared food at the grocery store, because I've never noticed this before. I guess I should read the receipt instead of just shoving it into my pocket.

[XJETGIRLX]

Only Florida has its own Fark tag.

And we only just now stopped taxing groceries. When I was a kid I thought everybody did.

This.

And for your further consideration, I submit the following:

http://crazyflorida.tumblr.com/

[Philster]

Give it six months and it'll be Michigan -- hands down.

[chacoguy]

Utah is the reddest state in the union; I'm not talking about the rocks.

We have polygamous communities.

Some asshole from here personally donated a million dollars to stop gay marriage in California.

There's an employer in Salt Lake that got sued for waterboarding one of his employees.

The list goes on..........

[rbroome]

Louisiana.

Hands down.

No debate needed.

Now I challenge that! While it is a contender, we have some good points. Not the least is two great ways of cooking crawfish. :)

Louisiana has a lot of problems, but there are at least parts of the state that are well-run. I live in St. Tammany and local Government does well now and did well all things considered after Katrina. [like the parish president asked around to learn of things to be careful of during recovery and quickly heard about FEMA. He appointed an accounting staff from almost the time the winds died down to keep track of the paperwork. So now while all the other Jurisdictions are crying poverty and saying they can't pay after the audits, we have receipts! It literally made millions of $ of difference] So there are definitely good places and good things happening here. Lots of problems and we aren't anywhere near the top. But not the bottom either. At least from where I sit. And even New Orleans voted out icebox Jefferson.

[dalej42]

Arizona might also be a contender.

Horrible governors such as Fife Symington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington_III) and Evan Mecham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Mecham)

Joe Arapaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arapaio)

John McCain is actually better than John Kyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kyl)

You really don't want to mention speed cameras or red light cameras to anyone who lives here.

Still, there are so many good things about the state. I'm sure most people in Chicago don't wake up in the morning thinking about how corrupt the politics are.

[Simmerdown]

I'm surprised that most replies are not Illinois in light of the events of the last week. I feel a real embarrassment after all this Blagojevich nonsense.

[BaneSidhe]

WV taxes groceries big time, 6% I think.

[matt_mcl]

There are sales tax states that don't tax groceries? Well, I'll be.

FWIW, in Canada we don't charge federal or provincial sales tax on groceries.

[Rodgers01]

Give it six months and it'll be Michigan -- hands down.
Why? What's happening in six months in Michigan? Is this something related to the non-bailout of the auto-industry? :confused:

Anyways, I would have thought the answer would have been Mississippi or Alabama -- don't those two usually bottom out the list of bad schools, poverty rates and stuff like that?

Though in terms of messed up as in "batshit crazy" (to quote the XJETGIRLX link), yeah, maybe Florida.

[seodoa]

Why? What's happening in six months in Michigan? Is this something related to the non-bailout of the auto-industry? :confused:

The bailout doesn't have much to do with it. Whether the bailout were to happen or not, the US auto industry is pretty much forked. With that you might as well say Michigan industry (and NW Ohio industry) is forked, too. The Michigan economic situation is already abysmal and half of the state's exports are automotive [cite (http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-michigan-metro-areas-detroit/3987431-1.html)]. I'm not sure how much of this is American and how much is foreign, but I'd WAG that any further collapse in the automotive industry in Michigan will pretty much make an already shaky economy collapse as it struggles to fill the vacuum.

That being said, most of what I know about the Michigan economic situation has been from friends and family living there, so I could be wrong.

There are sales tax states that don't tax groceries?

Also, FWIW, when I lived in Ohio they didn't tax any food at all. The rules were kinda complicated and I'm not going to bother to look them up again, but it basically boiled down to the idea that if it has nutritional value, it cannot be taxed. So even a bag of Doritos went untaxed, but, for example, while a bottle of orange or tomato juice would be untaxed, a soda or a bottle of water would be considered taxable. Fast food is taxed if you dine in (as is the food served at any restaurant), but if ordering the food to-go, it is untaxed (except for the drink [unless it's fruit juice]). This means a quick lunch from McDonald's would usually have a sales tax of 6 cents or so, as the soda would be taxed, but the food would not.

[KarlGrenze]

From what I remember, sales tax at Baton Rouge was 9%, even on groceries, since the times I went and bought food in the supermarket, I remember seeing the 9% tax added on. I bought food at Albertson's, Winn-Dixie, and Wal-Mart (we have both supercenter and marketplace).

I think LA and Miss are always at the bottom of every list related to "quality of life". Although Louisiana has awesome southern cuisine compared to the rest of the southern states. :) I'm sorry, but barring the sausage gravy and pecan pie, southern comfort food is rather bland. Unless it is done in Louisiana. Yummy! And they have boiled crawfish! Double yummy!

[NinetyWt]

I mean things like the state that is most corrupt, has a bad education system, is in debt, had unrepaired streets and bridges, etc etc


IMHO, you start in MS and work your way out. Any particular reason?

Anyways, I would have thought the answer would have been Mississippi or Alabama -- don't those two usually bottom out the list of bad schools, poverty rates and stuff like that? Poorly funded schools, yes. Corruption, no. And our streets & bridges are kept up fairly well.

MS does have sales taxes on food. That's one thing I would like to see changed.

[The Tao's Revenge]

I gotta go with Michigan. Unemployment is around 10% even living in the south-west corner jobs are hard to come by. Plus Detroit. They say around here the thing you never forget about Detroit is the smell.

I think we'd be better if ya'll cut us off and let us join Canada. Detroit would have some tough new environmental regulations to clean up it's act, and crime problems. And we could live under a competent government. (the current party crises not withstanding)

[rbroome]

Any particular reason?

Poorly funded schools, yes. Corruption, no. And our streets & bridges are kept up fairly well.

MS does have sales taxes on food. That's one thing I would like to see changed.

One thing MS does well-spreads the wealth from the casinos. Almost all the casinos are along the coast-which is booming (at least up till September). A lot of state tax money comes from them. That money goes to public works all over the state. So a county in the north (which might not even allow alcohol much less gambling) benefits along with the six coastal counties. In Louisiana, such taxes seem to be spent locally. Public schools in the south aren't very good no question. Efforts are always underway to improve them, but it is a long process. But both MS and LA, while certainly below average (in income if nothing else-which drives many other things), don't deserve the bad rap they get.

[Sigmagirl]

Also, FWIW, when I lived in Ohio they didn't tax any food at all. The rules were kinda complicated and I'm not going to bother to look them up again, but it basically boiled down to the idea that if it has nutritional value, it cannot be taxed. So even a bag of Doritos went untaxed, but, for example, while a bottle of orange or tomato juice would be untaxed, a soda or a bottle of water would be considered taxable. Fast food is taxed if you dine in (as is the food served at any restaurant), but if ordering the food to-go, it is untaxed (except for the drink [unless it's fruit juice]). This means a quick lunch from McDonald's would usually have a sales tax of 6 cents or so, as the soda would be taxed, but the food would not.

It's really complicated. If you buy a bottle of juice to drink, it's tax-free if it's fresh-squeezed, and taxable if it's from concentrate. :dubious:

[Palo Verde]

In an article about the Franken/Coleman recount, Time Magazine calls Florida "a diverse, messy, weird and slightly creepy hick state "

So I guess that is a big vote for the good state of Florida.

[Eggerhaus]

I have lived in Missouri (pronounced 'misery') for a number of years, after having been raised in Minnesota. When I left MN it was one of the bluest states around...now it's gone all ikky red.

Rather than having "show-me state" on it's license plates, Missouri really ought to have "where everybody smokes" instead.

It's truly sickening the amount of second-hand smoke I, as an ex-smoker, have to endure.

[Happy Lendervedder]

I gotta go with Michigan. Unemployment is around 10% even living in the south-west corner jobs are hard to come by. Plus Detroit. They say around here the thing you never forget about Detroit is the smell.

I think we'd be better if ya'll cut us off and let us join Canada. Detroit would have some tough new environmental regulations to clean up it's act, and crime problems. And we could live under a competent government. (the current party crises not withstanding)

Detroit as a whole smells no worse than any other big city. Are there factories? Sure. But they're only in certain areas. The whole place doesn't stink. And it's not like it's comparable to Gary, IN.

I work in Detroit, driving in from a 'burb, and there's no over-all stink present.

Worst state? Illinois, nah. It's not even the most corrupt; they're just experiencing a real sexy scandal right now. I gotta agree with the folks who say California's the most messed up. The governor actually tried to turn all state employees into volunteers for a while this year.

[5-HT]

Detroit as a whole smells no worse than any other big city. Are there factories? Sure. But they're only in certain areas. The whole place doesn't stink. And it's not like it's comparable to Gary, IN.

I work in Detroit, driving in from a 'burb, and there's no over-all stink present.



This is true. Detroit doesn't really smell like anything. I spend most of my day there all week and even the most blighted areas don't have an odor problem. It's a popular thing to say for outstate fucks that have never been there however. It's a big thing in the rest of the state to exaggerate and/or make up things about detroit to make themselves feel better.

Michigan is just biding its time. we'll see whose laughing when you all start running out of water.

[seodoa]

This is true. Detroit doesn't really smell like anything. I spend most of my day there all week and even the most blighted areas don't have an odor problem. It's a popular thing to say for outstate fucks that have never been there however. It's a big thing in the rest of the state to exaggerate and/or make up things about detroit to make themselves feel better.

I agree. I've been to Detroit many, many times and have never noticed a smell. It's certainly not in the running for World's Greatest 'Burg, but it's not that bad, either. Some very, very select parts (mostly suburbia) are actually pretty darn nice.

[Hunter Hawk]

I mean things like the state that is most corrupt

Related article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/weekinreview/14marsh.html) from the NYT.

[kitemaker_chuck]

Kansas, because we have Fred Phelps.

Top that!


I liked Kansas! (I guess it might have been before Fred Phelps!) I was in the USAF stationed at Forbes Air Force Base near Topeka, (from 1971-1973), and I found Kansas and Kansans very nice.

I've been a kite person most of my life, and it was a great place to fly kites!

[Palo Verde]

My mother grew up in Kentucky, and she said their state was always 2nd to last in all categories. Last was always Mississippi. They said, "Thank God for Mississippi" since they didn't want to be last.

[Stan Shmenge]

California.

It's looking at a budget deficit of $41.8 billion dollars by 2010. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget11-2008dec11,0,4280427.story)

By way of comparison, it's expecting to bring in $86 billion in revenues next year.

It has a stupid process of ballot propositions, which basically makes the state ungovernable. For example, it requires a 2/3 majority of the legislature to pass the annual budget. This means that no budget is passed until long after it is due. There's also a 2/3 majority requirement to raise any taxes. Which means that taxes will never be raised.

And Republicans use this tyranny of the minority to insist on balancing the budget solely through deep spending cuts.



Source: Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cap11-2008dec11,0,4941409.column)

For some reason, Californians like to blame the legislature for this state of affairs. When it's our own fucking fault.

Sigh. Revenues in California have been going UP. It is the socialists up in Sacramento that just refuse to stop spending. All the legislative staffers up in sacmo just got substantial raises, for example. Or the sweetheart deal made by Davis with the prison guards. Those guys are making as much as $200k a year thanks to that bastard. Most of the people who work in Sacramento could be fired and no-one would know the difference, but they just keep multiplying and sucking more dollars. The Govenator tried to warn them, but he has given up and gone over to the dark side. We are one of if not THE most highly taxed state in the union, yet we won't subcontract a single highway job. We tried to change this by ballot, but the smear campaign from Caltrans types was so pervasive and packed with scare tactics and lies that it didn't make the cut.

California needs to fire fully half of the people that work for the state, and give the rest a large pay cut.

Either that, or the last taxpayer to leave the state should remember to shut off the light switch.

[Stan Shmenge]

Joe Arapaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arapaio)
Joe Arapio is my hero. If we had more law enforcement officers like him, the thugs of the world would think twice, then three times before ruining other people's lives. Of course, I think that residential burglars should get the chair. DON'T break in my home. I don't care what the law says, you gonna be a dead sucker.

/Yah, I've had enough of the scumbags. Let them all rot. Arizona sun and pink jumpsuits FTW

[NinetyWt]

My mother grew up in Kentucky, and she said their state was always 2nd to last in all categories. Last was always Mississippi. They said, "Thank God for Mississippi" since they didn't want to be last. That's funny. Everybody in Louisiana and Alabama always say they are next to last, next to MS.

Make up your mind, people!

Anyway, I think the reason people say that is because MS is a poor state. Being poor means we get low scores in health care, in education, etc. Being poor doesn't necessarily equate with being "messed up" per the OP.

Per the OP:

Our personal indebtedness is apparently the lowest in the nation, according to this article (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/Yourcreditrating/P120358.asp) on MSN. Roughly half that of northern states' average personal debt.

The state's General Obligation Bond rating is still Aa3. Not the best but also not the worst. Here's a CNN article (http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/18/news/economy/states_recession.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008111904) on Moody ratings.

According to this report (http://www.reason.org/ps369.pdf) on state highways & bridges, MS ranked 38th. In the lower half certainly, but not the worst. (North Dakota scored the best). The table is on page 5.

I personally don't see evidence of MS being 'unorganized and badly run'. I think we do fairly well with what we have to work with.

[Stan Shmenge]

Well, it is pretty easy to maintain roads in a state with more Bison than automobiles.

[Ice Cream Conquest]

Utah is the reddest state in the union; I'm not talking about the rocks.

Sorry, Republican does not necessarily equal corrupt.


We have polygamous communities.


True, but the Attorney General is continuously working on prosecuting those that marry underage girls.


Some asshole from here personally donated a million dollars to stop gay marriage in California.

There's an employer in Salt Lake that got sued for waterboarding one of his employees.


Neither of which have anything to do with how the state itself is run.


The list goes on..........

You're going to have to come up with a lot better if you want to put Utah on THIS list.

[t-bonham@scc.net]

I think if you go by objective measures like quality of school systems, percentage of children graduating high school, high poverty rates, high rate of violent crime (and non-violent, too), Mississippi pretty much always comes in at the bottom. (Louisiana has dropped below them in some rankings now, but they haven't recovered from the Hurricane yet.) Mississippi has historically -- for at least 50-75 years -- failed to invest in any of the systems that would improve the common good -- things like education, public health, roads, utilities, etc. Almost like a deliberate attempt to stay the worst! Presumably, those in charge benefit from it being the way it is.

I would disagree with the nomination of Illinois for political corruption because despite the corruption, the state basically works pretty well. Despite the Chicago political machine, the city does get water through the pipes, the traffic signals work, the streets get plowed -- they messed that up one year, and the head of the city political machine was dumped by the voters and replaced with a non-machine woman candidate. For most of the people, such corruption doesn't affect their basic lives.

And listing California, just because they face a budget deficit? Heck, a lot of states are facing one now, after 8 years of the Bush economy. I think per capita, we face a worse deficit here in Minnesota than California does. California's deficit looks big, but remember, California is bigger than 2/3rd of the countries of the world.

[Vox Imperatoris]

Yes, the Alabama state motto: "Thank God for Mississippi!"

I actually think that Alabama (at least the urban part) is a pretty good place to live. The car companies are actually doing well here, too. It is kind of funny having so many German people around in the middle of Alabama (and you can instantly spot them at a distance, too, like I assume European do to Americans).

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

[Baker]

Tennessee. They have a 5.5% sales tax on groceries.

Nothing says "Fuck the poor" like taxing their food.

I can top that. Kansas is fairly well run, but we do have a sales tax, on everything, of 7.45%.

[NinetyWt]

I think if you go by objective measures like quality of school systems, percentage of children graduating high school, high poverty rates, high rate of violent crime (and non-violent, too), Mississippi pretty much always comes in at the bottom. (Louisiana has dropped below them in some rankings now, but they haven't recovered from the Hurricane yet.)

Did you read post # 39? MS is #38, not #50, in roads.

Not to mention that we are also recovering still from Hurricane Katrina. If you're giving LA a pass for that , do we not get one too? I just sent in a response to an RFQ for City of Biloxi - they are repaving 100 miles of streets, replacing 320,000 feet of storm drain, etc. etc. All from Katrina damage.

I would disagree with the nomination of Illinois for political corruption Upthread there is a link to a NYT story on corruption, which shows convicted officials per capita. I disagree a little bit with that analysis - shouldn't it be convicted officials per number of officials? - but in that article, MS is #7. Six states are worse, in other words.

Perhaps it would be better to have a list of objective measures, then see how each state ranked, rather than just spouting off the traditional response.