Choose Me a Dog

[BigNik]

OK - in the middle of next year I'll be moving to a new place and I've decided that I want to get a couple of dogs. I'm not wedded to the concept of a pedigree, but if I do decide to go down that route I'll need to start thinking about getting on waiting lists now.

Looking through the usual sites, though, pretty much every breed I'd envisioned gets contraindicated by some limiting factor. Is there anyone who'd like to suggest a dog breed that I should be looking toward?

I'd prefer a large breed - I'll take a medium breed, but not much smaller.

The house is an inner-suburban, two-storey terrace. The yard's about 6 metres by 14 - mostly but not entirely concreted - and because of the security grilles the dogs will pretty much need to be outside while I'm at work. The stairs up to the second floor are pretty steep, which rules out most short-legged breeds and some of the bulkier giants.

I'm single without kids and I'll be out of the house for about 10 hours a weekday - the dogs would have each other for company, but no supervision. Exercise would be roughly an hour's walk a day, including playing in the dog park. I'd prefer a breed that's intelligent, but not destructive.

I've had dogs before, but not in the last few years when I've been renting. I'm happy to provide solid training and I'm not shy about keeping structure, but I'm not going to get into agility-grade training.

I was originally thinking about malamutes, but I won't be able to let them off-leash at the dog park in case they feel the need to eat a few terriers. Most working dogs (blue heelers, border collies, etc.) won't get the exercise that they need. Bulky dogs (saint bernards, mastiffs, newfoundlands) won't handle the stairs and generally aren't as bright as I'm looking for.

I'm thinking about looking at irish wolfhounds - they seem to have the right activity level and temprement, but would anyone be able to suggest a better fit?

[ZipperJJ]

One thing I think of when I see huge-breed-dog + stairs is that the dogs, being that they have shorter lifespans, will get older quicker than a smaller dog and also will most likely suffer from arthritis and/or hip problems.

Then, how do you go about moving your two enormous old Irish wolfhounds around the house?

I would suggest a pair of golden retrievers (yup, I am a golden owner so I'm biased). They'll be good playing with each other, will be great on walks, will be great at the dog park and are super intelligent. They like stimulation but don't need it as much as a herding dog.

My golden gets an hour walk most days, and along with a healthy diet (low-fat treats, light dog food (less than it says to feed on the bag), few table scraps and no-salt canned green beans for snackies) she stays at a great weight. Goldens are very easy to make fat - they have the saddest eyes!

Other Dopers might be able to give you a better idea about how to pair the dogs gender-wise, but I do know that females will be smaller (even tho mine is 83 lbs) and possibly less destructive. I also know that the oldest female will be the leader of a group, so a female and a male might work out, or two females. Two males would be a whole lotta dog...

Good luck!

[hellpaso]

You'd actually do better with a male and female, or two males. The girls tend to have issues with dominance.

[StGermain]

Dobermans or standard poodles. Both very trainable, loyal and loving. Good lifespan (12-14 years). Poodle has coat upkeep, but I just clip mine with my horse clippers.

StG

[FarmerChick]

I agree with StGermain on the Standard Poodle, and ZipperJJ with the Goldens. My suggestion would be for you to look at rescuing a couple of greyhounds. They would be perfect for you. I have a couple of adopted Aussies, so I'm a big believer in Rescue.

Here is a discription from Adopt a Greyhound (http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/)

Characteristics and Temperament
Greyhounds have a very gentle and quiet disposition. They are very pack oriented dogs and will quickly adopt human masters into their "pack." To allow different Greyhounds to hunt and race together, aggressiveness towards other dogs and people has been nearly eliminated from the breed. Many do retain a strong prey drive (which is a compnent to their racing) and are sometimes unsuitable for houses with other small pets such as cats or rabbits. Their sensitivity and intelligence make them quick learners, and good candidates for obedience training.
Greyhounds are often tolerant of children, especially if they have been raised with them. Being non-aggressive, a Greyhound will generally walk away from a worrisome child, rather than growl or snap. However, even the gentle Greyhound has its limits, and should not be subjected to continuous harassment.

Although Greyhounds are the fastest breed of dog, they achieve their incredible speed in one all out sprint, and do not have a lot of endurance. A Greyhound is quite content to be a "couch potato" and spend most of the day sleeping. Since they don't have a lot of endurance, a Greyhound actually requires less exercise time than most dogs.

[Fetchund]

Where do you live? What are the temperatures?

[PapSett]

I have to chime in with my breed of choice, the Gordon Setter. They are wonderful companions, and the coat is relatively easy to care for... if you don't want to keep them in show-condition, they are adorable when they grow out! They can be a little bit stubborn, but are very devoted to their owner and low energy inside.

Dobermans are another good choice, altho in my experience they are VERY destructive in their younger days; once they hit about 2, they're fine, but before that? They'll tear up anything they can get their mouths on. That's another good thing about my Gordons (I have had 6 all together)... they are not destructive. Out of 6 Gordies, I can count on 1 hand the stuff they have torn up. They don't even tear up their stuffed toys! I still have a little stuffed pig that belinged to my old girl Fancy... she had it from the day I brought her home at 8 weeks till she died at 10, and the only thing missing on it is one ear... that my PAPILLON tore off!

[Lucretia]

Please, can I implore you not to buy a purebred? It's trite, it's corny...but it's also true that there are boatloads of great dogs in shelters, including purebreds if that's what you really want. Failing that, there are tons of breed-specific rescue organizations, for just about every kind of dog. Dogs are awesome, and they deserve better than what many of them get from us. It would be really great if, seeing as you want dogs anyway, you did a little bit to improve their lot.

[ZipperJJ]

How about going to a shelter and getting a mix of all the recommended dogs? :D

[StGermain]

Lucretia - I have two dobies, a standard poodle, english setter, alaskan malamute and wolfhound mix, and they're all rescues. It's amazing what people throw away. Purebred dogs need homes, too.

StG

[fluiddruid]

petfinder.com can help you find a rescue dog of nearly any breed if you're willing to travel a little bit. Mixed breeds can often be a good thing, too - they don't suffer from the breed-specific problems like hip issues nearly as often. A lab mix or golden mix would be a good fit for you (presuming you don't plan to leave them outside in a cold climate).

Alternately, a lot of people at my local dog park have greyhounds due to a nearby greyhound rescue (due to the dog track here, I imagine). They are very sweet dogs as well, play nicely with others, and tend to be easily available as rescue dogs. I always laugh watching my basset hound try to chase the greyhounds, and they good-naturedly slow down just enough to encourage her. :) They are not loud, either, that I have ever seen. Most people adopt them in twos.

If you live in a colder climate and plan to leave the dogs outside, consider a husky. They can be mean if not properly socialized, but a husky has been coming to our dog park regularly and is very sweet and gentle with all of the other dogs. In my opinion, nearly any breed can be safe with other dogs if properly socialized at a young age. I've seen a St. Bernard and a boxer, both full size, playing with a little Pom puppy in the most gentle way imaginable.

[Wile E]

Greyhounds are fine but should never be trusted around smaller animals as their instinct to chase and grab tends to kick in. Also, if you want to do obedience training with them, be aware that they will stand and lay down but they just don't sit.

Also, a breed rescue would be a good way to go when you are ready to look for a dog.

[romansperson]

Greyhounds are fine but should never be trusted around smaller animals as their instinct to chase and grab tends to kick in. Also, if you want to do obedience training with them, be aware that they will stand and lay down but they just don't sit.

Also, a breed rescue would be a good way to go when you are ready to look for a dog.

Oh, you can teach them to sit if you want, but for most of them it's not something they do on their own very much and it tends to look a bit awkward and not particularly comfortable. I have a female greyhound that sits on her own all the time and obviously likes to, but the male only sits when he wants to scratch an itch and it's a bit of a production for him.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I am partial to the Shiloh Shepherd (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/shilohshepherd.htm). Think a super-duper German Shepherd and you have the idea (indeed the breed was formed to conform to the older "ideal" of a GSD...think Rin Tin Tin...as lately GSDs have become victim to puppy mills and unscrupulous breeders). They were bred to avoid hip dysplasia issues GSDs are prone to (although they can still get it to be sure) and have a more even temperament.

I have one and she is amazing. Smart to the point of spooky. Loyal, loving and a real sweetheart yet an amazing knack for knowing when to guard with no prompting for me.

They are exceptionally trainable (again that big brain of theirs) and and have a stellar work ethic. They can fulfill any dog "job" I can think of all the way to full blown Schutzhund but will do as well as a pet. Of course the herding instinct is there too and occasionally you will see them do it when running around a park which is pretty cool to see.

They have a thick coat suitable for most weather so get on fine almost anywhere (although exceptionally hot areas may be out for them). As long as you provide sufficient shelter, shade and water outdoors is totally cool with them.

They are also gorgeous! They will shed though so be prepared for lots of brushing.

The downsides?

1) They are almost impossible to find outside a breeder as they remain a semi-rare breed.

2) As a corollary to #1 they are very expensive.

3) Early socialization and training is critical. While true for any dog it is especially true for this breed. They are too big, too powerful and way too smart to not have a good foundation of doggy good behavior behind them. They thrive on that anyway and everyone, dog and owner, will be happier for it. Once well established they are very stable and loyal. If you are a weak (as in not establishing leader of the pack) owner that allows your dogs to run your life there will be trouble...get a lap dog.

4) Along with #3 good breeders will do temperament testing for you when choosing a dog. The testing is no guarantee of anything but at least an insight into the dog the puppy is likely to become. In this fashion you have a good chance at the temperament you want (still very much needs that good socialization).

5) It is such a great breed and the breed founder was so restrictive in protecting the breed purity and lines that splinter groups have formed offering something similar but not quite the same. The fighting between these groups is passionate and vitriolic like you would not believe. Stay out of it as best you can. Go for the ISSR (http://www.shilohshepherd.com/issrInc.htm) breeders if you can as those adhere to the original ideal and are passionate about producing good dogs.

Best of luck whatever you choose!

[BigNik]

Where do you live? What are the temperatures?

Sorry - I forgot that it doesn't list locations any more.

I'm in Sydney. Temperatures only get down below the teens during the day once or twice a year. They'll often be in the mid-high 30s in Summer, and very humid.

[BigNik]

Please, can I implore you not to buy a purebred? It's trite, it's corny...but it's also true that there are boatloads of great dogs in shelters, including purebreds if that's what you really want.

I have to say that having scanned the RSPCA's page on and off for the past six months there are very rarely any purebreed dogs that get left there.

That said, I'm not wedded to the idea of a pedigreed dog - but getting an idea as to suitable crosses is key. I can typically get better information about a Bull Mastiff than I can about the typical "Doberman x ?" that's out at the Yagoona pound.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

The answer is "beagle".

[BigNik]

The answer is "beagle".

Would a beagle be able to cope with a steep set of stairs? The terrace was built in 1880, and as was the style at the time, it doesn't waste much space with things like easy access.

[Shirley Ujest]

Would a beagle be able to cope with a steep set of stairs? The terrace was built in 1880, and as was the style at the time, it doesn't waste much space with things like easy access.

Beagles are indestructable, very family oriented and think of themselves as a part of the family. They are prone to scrounging for food ( off a table, out of the garbage.) and can never really go off lead as when they catch a scent (which they always do) they are gone. They may come back, but it won't be when they are called, it will be for food. Food, food, food. They love kids, they love people. No one as ever been mauled by a beagle. They are dog alarms and will bay (read: blood curdling) at everything and nothing ( so visit someone with beagle to get the full effect.)

I highly recommend talking to rescues for the breeds you are interested in and asking them the pros and cons of each breed.

Example of my base knowledge: Labs.

Pro's:

Fantastic Family dog. (None better.)

Can be fairly intelligent. (It's not a shepard, aussie or poodle, however.) Very trainable ( look at what is mostly guiding the blind and helping the handicapped.)

ALWAYS HAPPY. (Yay! I get dog food to eat today! OH BOY!!!!!!111!!!)

Loves water. (and mud)

Will catch a ball all day. (Your rotator cuff will wear out long before they do.)

Very social. (Loves everyone.)

Cons:

Because it is so popular, inbreeding is rampant and spectacularly stupid dogs are out there. (My best friend has two purebred Labs that are dumber than a sack of hammers, and she shelled out $1200 for the two of them! Her rescue dog (border collie cross) is a PhD candidate compared to Dumb and Dumberer.)

They are clumsy ( their tail can clear a coffee table full of coffee cups in a wag.)

They love food. ( However, all the labs I know have 'junk'stomachs. Meaning they can eat anything and never get sick. YMMV.)

They blow their coat twice a year.

Many Most have oral fixations and will carry a lovey or bring you something (stick/ball/underpants) every time they can. This is in their DNA. Get use to slobbery items.

Any Bad Guy who knows his dog breeds intent on robbing your place or mugging you will know that you have picked the worst breed for territorial and personal defence. ( If your house were being attacked by tennis balls from outerspace, on the other hand, you and your house would be safe.)

Hip Dysplasia is a big problem with this and large breeds.






A book that I love to read: The Good, the Bad and The Furry. (http://www.amazon.com/Good-Bad-Furry-Choosing-Thats/dp/1594740216/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229538045&sr=8-1) It isn't gospel, but it gives you a great overall view of the popular breeds out there.


( If I didnt' fear the stink eye or dealing with potential issues of freakish strength, I'd get a Staffordshire terrier in a heart beat. Healthy, great family dogs, no grooming issues, devoted. Medium sized. )

The caveat of big dogs is Vet bills and if you have to kennel them. (Food too. They can shovel alot of kibble into their pie hole and what goes in, must come out. How much to you like poo?)

Our dog ( a lab/mastiff mix of the most awesome kind. Looked purebreed lab, heaviest and stockier like a mastiff.) Weighed between 85-100 pounds. Every visit to the vet was a minimum of $100 USD. Kenneling her cost us a fortune until our neighbors moved in and are dog people. ( We take care of theirs and they took care of her. Ideal.)

Also, very important no matter what breed or size you get is looking into vet bill insurance. Some types are not as healthy as others. If they only thing that is keeping you from putting little Fido down when he sprains his paw is money ( say $500, doable, for most.) insurance may help you. What if Fido gets bloat (http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm)? or cancer and the price goes to $2000 to start out for treatment.


It is mandatory to attend obedience training and then continue with this for the rest of the dogs life. Dogs, like humans, will slide to the path of slovenly behavior if given an inch. A trained dog is a happy dog. A happy dog is a tired dog. ( walks and face time, very important.)

Dogs are an awesome way to learn and meet new people.


Keep us updated with your doggie shopping!

We get to help name your newest family member(s), right?

[BigNik]

We get to help name your newest family member(s), right?

We'll talk... :) I'm not permitted to actually let people know when I have the dogs, though, because I don't have a camera and I know that board rules are pretty strict about that sort of thing.

Thanks for everyone's help - again, I'm not looking at taking on a pet until I move in July, so the actual shopping won't take place until then. At the moment, I'm calling everything "research".

[Lucretia]

Lucretia - I have two dobies, a standard poodle, english setter, alaskan malamute and wolfhound mix, and they're all rescues. It's amazing what people throw away. Purebred dogs need homes, too.

StG


Oh, I have no problem with purebreds, per se, I just have philosophical issues with supporting the dog breeding industry, given the over abundance of great dogs who need homes out there. I think going the breed rescue route is a great thing.

[jsgoddess]

I'd say a smaller dog would have less trouble with the stairs than a big dog. Really big dogs especially can get into trouble trying to go down steep stairs. Their back ends end up too high and it makes them unstable. My sister's Newfoundland fell down their back stairs a couple of times, and he was small for a Newfie. (Fantastic breed, but too short-lived.)

[Munch]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that if you're going to be gone ten hours a day, then maybe having dogs isn't the best idea.

[BigNik]

Oh, I have no problem with purebreds, per se, I just have philosophical issues with supporting the dog breeding industry, given the over abundance of great dogs who need homes out there. I think going the breed rescue route is a great thing.

I was looking around last night, and the rescue sites I found tend to be run by the insaner end of the dog people spectrum - they pretty much all demanded the right to choose which vet you used, review your pets medical records on a regular basis (and take the dog back if they didn't like them), drop in at any time to look your place over (presumably on the grounds that they're checking that the pet's not mistreated) - hell, a couple of them even required that they dictate what you feed the dogs (and, again, if they didn't like it, they'd take the dogs back).

Thanks, but no. They can jam that right up their collective clackers.

[BigNik]

I'd say a smaller dog would have less trouble with the stairs than a big dog. Really big dogs especially can get into trouble trying to go down steep stairs. Their back ends end up too high and it makes them unstable.

Yeah. This is one of the things that worries me. I've read that it's mostly a problem with bulky dogs, though, and not so much with the svelter ones. Anyone know if that's the case?

[BigNik]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that if you're going to be gone ten hours a day, then maybe having dogs isn't the best idea.

Really? Because it strikes me that this sort of timeframe wouldn't be unusual for any dog owner with a job. I've certainly owned dogs before - both as an adult and a kid - where no-one's been at home for that sort of timeframe each weekday.

I'm not calling "cite", but what makes you think that dogs can't cope in this sort of situation?

[FarmerChick]

I was looking around last night, and the rescue sites I found tend to be run by the insaner end of the dog people spectrum - they pretty much all demanded the right to choose which vet you used, review your pets medical records on a regular basis (and take the dog back if they didn't like them), drop in at any time to look your place over (presumably on the grounds that they're checking that the pet's not mistreated) - hell, a couple of them even required that they dictate what you feed the dogs (and, again, if they didn't like it, they'd take the dogs back).

Thanks, but no. They can jam that right up their collective clackers.

Wha? What sites were you on? They will do home checks to ensure that you have a suitable safe place for dogs. Most rescue groups have a clause stating you must give the dog back instead of giving the dog away. That is to ensure the dogs are not being "rescued" and then sold for profit. I've never heard of the rest that you described.

[SharkB8]

German shepherd.

Just... (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/vacilandotv/IMG_8712.jpg)

Look... (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/vacilandotv/l_7c28b649f4714e465e012e7fb23161d9.jpg)

At that... (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/vacilandotv/l_de01f5dcc38f746c54b4bb0215176cd4.jpg)

Punim... (http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/vacilandotv/maxx.jpg)

[Typo Negative]

Example of my base knowledge: Labs.
You cannot go wrong with a Lab. Loyal, lovable, energetic, looooove the water...

[Sailboat]

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that if you're going to be gone ten hours a day, then maybe having dogs isn't the best idea.

I thought that too, but then I realized the dogs will be outside in a yard that's apparently secure. If there are two dogs (for company), they can go to the bathroom, they have shelter, and they get real attention in the evenings, this might be a reasonable arrangement. I wouldn't recommend it without one of those points being true, though.

Although I often speak up in favor of pit bulls on this board, I definitely do NOT recommend them for this situation. Aside from the recommendation one sees on dog sites against leaving unsupervised pit bulls together, it's frankly dangerous to leave unsupervised pit bulls outside, period, as they are frequently abused, stolen, or killed by various nasty people. Also, pitties don't fit your energy-level requirements. And they're kind of termperature-sensitive. And they loooooooooove their people more than being outside.

I think largish outdoorsy dogs like Shepherds or any of the retriever types would be good.

Don't give up on breed-specific rescues. There will be one somewhere who will have a dog for you without too many restrictions -- try being very upfront about your plan, as in your OP.

What's going on worldwide with pet dogs amounts to an industrial holocaust -- new puppies are constantly being produced, because they're salable only in a certain age range, and "product" that doesn't move is "disposed of" as cheaply as possible. This is not propaganda, it's a description of the way mass-production works.

I personally have seen inside a freezer at a "nice" local family-owned pet shop. It was full of dead puppies and kittens.

Please adopt, even if it appears to be more trouble.

[Sigmagirl]

I will say this about Irish Wolfhounds: I know a woman who used to breed and show them, but she had to stop, because she could no longer stand the heartbreak of them dying of old age at the age of six.

[BigNik]

Wha? What sites were you on? They will do home checks to ensure that you have a suitable safe place for dogs. Most rescue groups have a clause stating you must give the dog back instead of giving the dog away.

Actually, all of them were unacceptably intrusive - excepting the RSPCA. Mybe it's an Australian thing. All of them (again, except the RSPCA) required a contract that I wouldn't be comfortable signing.

The RSPCA I'll be looking at, but it'll depend what they have while I'm looking. If you don't want a "Kelpie cross unknown", "Shih Tsu cross unknown", "Doberman cross unknown" or a "Rottweiler cross unknown", it seems to be pretty much luck.

[BigNik]

Although I often speak up in favor of pit bulls on this board, I definitely do NOT recommend them for this situation.

Yeah - with the "illegal to acquire" thing, it's a little outside what I'm trying to do.

The yard's not large, but it's not too bad, there will be shelter available and the fences are secure.

Attention will be there outside of work hours, but surely the house being empty during work hours isn't that unrealistic?

[BigNik]

You cannot go wrong with a Lab. Loyal, lovable, energetic, looooove the water...

I'm a fair way from the water, I have to say...

But wouldn't there be an energy level issue with labs? I thought that I'd need more space or more exerccise than that.

Also wanting to say thanks to everyone for the input on this one. Greatly appreciated.

[Satellite^Guy]

I personally have seen inside a freezer at a "nice" local family-owned pet shop. It was full of dead puppies and kittens.

:eek: :( Wow. Just... wow. :( :mad: :(

It takes quite a bit to bring a tear to my eye, but that about does it.


S^G

[Satellite^Guy]

Just thought I'd add my favorite non-small breed to the discussion; The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. (http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=nova%20scotia%20duck%20tolling%20retriever&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) I'm not sure of its suitability to your situation, but I think it has to be one of the most handsome dogs out there, and since it's from the retriever family, it's got to be a great family pet, and I'd love to have one! preferably with white markings on its nose (http://a5.vox.com/6a00d4142829d33c7f00d41428f3856a47-500pi). :D

S^G