Italian Beef [ANSWERED BY CECIL]

[Billz8]

I took a trip this fall, hiking 900 miles of the Appalachian Trail from Maine to Virginia. I was only a couple weeks into the trip when I discovered that two of my favorite foods were almost completely nonexistent on the East Coast: gyros and Italian beef.

Oh, sure, they serve that pre-packaged Kronos stuff, but they call it a GY-ro, not a yee-ro. People on the East Coast have never heard of a yee-ro.

But Italian beef? TOTALLY NONEXISTENT! Philly Cheesesteak is as close as you'll get. So the question is this: who invented/created Italian beef, and how far has the gospel spread outside Chicago?

[Ed Zotti]

I too was shocked on entering college to realize that Italian beef was confined to Chicago. I believe Scala's (http://www.scalasbeef.com/history.html) claims to have originated this delicacy, but why it hasn't spread elsewhere is a mystery ... I mean, what the hell, you can get Philly cheese steaks in Chicago. I'm sure if you asked Scala's why they haven't done more to proselytize, they would probably say something like: What, you want us to send somebody to go live in Philadelphia?"

[LurkMeister]

I've noticed the lack of places I can get Italian Beef sandwiches here in NC. I do manage to return to Chicago several times a year, and during those visits I try to stop off at Portillo's at least once. Of course, then I have to decide which I crave more: Italian Beef or a Maxwell Street Polish.

[ArrMatey!]

I was pretty amazed when I found this out myself. A fellow doper and his wife came to visit me some years ago, and I had to explain what italian beef was. Sorta blew me away. How can you not know what this gift from on high is?! :D

[Cluricaun]

Not that it's the best, but the ever family gathering ubiquitious Portillo's (http://www.tastesofchicago.com/category/14) at least allows for mail order if you were to be stranded too long away from Chicago. Clicking around on that page lets you order all sorts of Chicago staples.

[GLWasteful]

There exists a pretty good version here in KC at Chubby's on Broadway.

And I always thought that gyros could be gotten anywhere. Not that I look for them or anything, but they're pretty ubiquitous anyplace I've ever been.

Well, except Oslo.

[samclem]

But Italian beef? TOTALLY NONEXISTENT! Philly Cheesesteak is as close as you'll get. So the question is this: who invented/created Italian beef, and how far has the gospel spread outside Chicago?
The real question is: what is unique about an "Italian Beef sandwich" as obtained in Chicago? How can you describe the beef to me, so that I can distinguish it from the beef in a Philly cheesesteak or the beef in a California French Dip sandwich?

I was in Chicago just a few months ago, but forgot to try this delicacy.

I think that Scala's(as Ed mentioned above) is one claimant and the other is Al's No 1 Italian Beef. As is usual with such claims, no one can supply an original menu/advertisement. But it's pretty sure that in does go back to the early 1940s-late 1930s. I can find food columns in a paper called _Southeast Economist_ out of Chicago in 1945 listing the sandwich as available in many restaurants.

[WarmNPrickly]

As I recall, in a philly cheesteak the meat is fried with some cheesy goo and peppers. Also, the sandwich itself is comparatively very dry. It's tasty, but definitely different from an italian beef sandwich.

In an italian beef sandwich the meat is thin sliced then dunked into hot juice and slapped on the bread. Some extra juice is scooped over the sandwich to make it drip. I'm not kidding you, at the resteraunt I worked at, if a customer asked fror it extra juicy, we were told to just dunk the whole thing under the juice. Mozzerella cheese is usually melted over the top while it toasts in the oven and green peppers are optional. Like the Chicago hot dog, it can be a messy thing to eat.

I think it is a little bit similar to the Californis french dip, but I think the juice is different and of course already liberally applied to the sandwich so no need for a cup.

[jnglmassiv]

The Wikipedia entry is a pretty good read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Beef
I've never, ever heard the term 'Dago beef'.

I'm not kidding you, at the resteraunt I worked at, if a customer asked fror it extra juicy, we were told to just dunk the whole thing under the juice. Mozzerella cheese is usually melted over the top while it toasts in the oven and green peppers are optional. Like the Chicago hot dog, it can be a messy thing to eat.Some places (including Portillos, I think) have a chart on the wall indicating 3 juice degrees: Dry, wet & dipped. I like them wet or dipped. I think I disagree that a 'typical' beef in Chicago gets cheese, though. This is always an upgrade if available at all. Most beef & dog joints don't have an sandwich toaster to melt it on anyway. Many places will use the cheeze fries neon orange oily junk if you ask for the cheesy beef, too.

Peppers are a personal thing. The green peppers may be roasted and skinned or sauteed or just steamed (I roast them on the burner, then sweat in a plastic bag, peel & toss in the juice). You'll want to ask for sweet peppers at the counter. The other pepper variaton is hot giardiniera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardiniera). FWIW, my lifelong Chicagoan father says "gardenera".

[Ed Zotti]

Some places (including Portillos, I think) have a chart on the wall indicating 3 juice degrees: Dry, wet & dipped. I like them wet or dipped. I think I disagree that a 'typical' beef in Chicago gets cheese, though. This is always an upgrade if available at all. Most beef & dog joints don't have an sandwich toaster to melt it on anyway. Many places will use the cheeze fries neon orange oily junk if you ask for the cheesy beef, too.

Peppers are a personal thing. The green peppers may be roasted and skinned or sauteed or just steamed (I roast them on the burner, then sweat in a plastic bag, peel & toss in the juice). You'll want to ask for sweet peppers at the counter.Agreed. I've been having Italian beef since childhood, and I've never had cheese on it. I don't doubt you can get it, but nobody would claim this is central to the Italian beef experience. However, if you get yours dry and without peppers, in my opinion you're drifting far from the core concept and might as well move to California and order French dip and put pineapple on your pizza and be done with it.

[tnetennba]

I hate it when a restaurant claims to have Italian beef and it's not even slow cooked. You can't find the real deal here in Minneapolis that I know of, but I make my own and I think any native Chicagoan would find it a passable imitation.

[WarmNPrickly]

It's true, the cheese was an option not standard. I worked in a pizza place so obviously they had an oven and mozzerella cheese. I couldn't imagine it without cheese so I just assumed that's what everybody did. One of the other places I had italian beef was Luke's and I'm pretty sure they also used mozzerella. If anybody had ever put neon orange cheesy sauce on my italian beef I would have been very offended.


With all this talk, I may have to make a trip for an italian beef when I come back over Christmass.

[samclem]

Agreed. I've been having Italian beef since childhood, and I've never had cheese on it. I don't doubt you can get it, but nobody would claim this is central to the Italian beef experience. However, if you get yours dry and without peppers, in my opinion you're drifting far from the core concept and might as well move to California and order French dip and put pineapple on your pizza and be done with it.
Can you state that peppers were on the typical sandwich when you were a child? I know some kids might not like peppers, but I'm curious how far back we can say peppers came on the typical sandwich.

And, again, what is the basic difference between a French dip and an Italian Beef? The peppers?

[tnetennba]

I'd say the giardenara and the fact that Italian Beef is slow-cooked for 10-12 hours. I doubt French Dips are cooked that long. They come with au jus because they're dry. Properly made Italian Beef is so sloppy wet you can barely pick it up and eat it.

[WarmNPrickly]

And, again, what is the basic difference between a French dip and an Italian Beef? The peppers?

The french dips I've had have been very dry and the meat was thicker. I think the dip was quite different as well. I think the dip was less oily and more like beef bullion and they never provide you with enough dip or a wide enough dip container. I've never had a good experience with a french dip, probably because I always expected an italian beef.

I'd say the giardenara and the fact that Italian Beef is slow-cooked for 10-12 hours. I doubt French Dips are cooked that long. They come with au jus because they're dry. Properly made Italian Beef is so sloppy wet you can barely pick it up and eat it.
Reply With Quote

I've no idea about how long it was cooked. When I made these, I just picked the meat up, dunked it in the juice for a minute then put it on the bread. I've no idea what happened to the meat before I got it. I will agree that a proper italian beef is soggy with juice.

After resorting to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Beef), I see that they refer to the juice for italian beef as "gravy". I don't think I would call it gravy, but it is certainly different from the Au Jus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au_jus) used for a French Dip. Also, according to wikipedia, what I was eating is called a "cheesy beef". Strangely, I have never had Giardiniera on an italian beef despite the fact that the pizza place I worked at offered Scala's as a pizza topping. When I had peppers on my italian beef, I remember big slices of fried green peppers on the sandwich.

[WarmNPrickly]

I just wanted to state, that in my attempts to find an italian beef when I visit the NW suburbs this next week, I was dissappointed to find that both of the nearby Luke's have been shut down. In fact, it seems that Luke's is barely a footnote in the Chicago area nowdays.

This will not affect my mission, it will only make it more difficult. I will simply go to my old workplace and get the italian beef I grew up on. The problem is figuring out what my wife will eat since she almost universally does not eat beef.

[Ed Zotti]

Can you state that peppers were on the typical sandwich when you were a child? I know some kids might not like peppers, but I'm curious how far back we can say peppers came on the typical sandwich.I don't remember, to be honest. I have to think they were always available. As a kid I may have asked for my sandwich plain, just like I used to ask for my hot dogs and hamburgers plain, and snowplowed down hills, and used training wheels on my bike. At a certain stage in all cases, however, I realized these lame gambits meant I was getting but a watered-down version of the true experience. Be that as it may, I agree that a french dip is dry, the meat is sliced thicker and is less heavily spiced, and peppers are rarely part of the mix.

[Sarahfeena]

The Wikipedia entry is a pretty good read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Beef
I've never, ever heard the term 'Dago beef'.Me neither! Reminds me of when I read the entry for the Museum of Science & Industry...it said that it's known locally as the "Sci and I." I have never, ever heard it called that in my entire life.

I just wanted to state, that in my attempts to find an italian beef when I visit the NW suburbs this next week, I was dissappointed to find that both of the nearby Luke's have been shut down. In fact, it seems that Luke's is barely a footnote in the Chicago area nowdays. Somebody I know who lives out in Palatine recently remarked to me that he had just been to Luke's...maybe the one out on Route 12 is still open?

[pulykamell]

I'd say the giardenara and the fact that Italian Beef is slow-cooked for 10-12 hours.

There's more than one way to make an Italian Beef, and the home cooked way is generally low and slow so that it shreds, but that's not how I'd wager most IB places make theirs. It's usually normally roasted for 3-ish hours, cooled, sliced very thinly with a deli slicer, and then dunked in the gravy to finish. Here's Buona Beef's (http://wgnradio.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29794&Itemid=320) recipe, for instance. I far prefer this sliced Italian beef to the more shredded kinds you sometimes find here (although I feel the approach followed in the Buona Beef recipe is more commonly found at beef stands around here. Also, I believe bottom round is the more typical cut of choice.) The difficulty in making these recipes at home is slicing the beef thinly enough. You really do need a deli slicer to get it properly thin, therefore most home versions go the slow-cook/crockpot route for shredded beef.

[Cluricaun]

The difficulty in making these recipes at home is slicing the beef thinly enough. You really do need a deli slicer to get it properly thin, therefore most home versions go the slow-cook/crockpot route for shredded beef.

I find that a nice hunk of London Broil from Jewel shaved deli thin and then cooked in a varying degree of beef broth, gardinaire (with brine poured in), a can of beer, and whatever else looks lonely in the spice cabinet does a passible job of making the real thing at home.

The bread is the hardest thing for me to replicate because it's so hard to find really fresh sub rolls here in the burbs. They need that ultra soft interior with that glossy tough crust to be able to handle the gravy without turning into mush in your hands.

[Finally]

Where was Luke's closed? There's one in Wauconda, Round Lake, Lake Zurich and Arlington Heights (upthread mentioned on 12) and they're all operating afaik.

[WarmNPrickly]

I just googled Lukes and the one on 12 didn't come up on the map for some reason. All is well assuming you guys aren't having me on some bizaar elaborate joke to get me to go to a Lukes that's actually closed. ;)

[jnglmassiv]

I've been thinking about the difference between a 'beef and French dip all day. The beefs have a spice signature that's broadly Italian* with any combination of garlic, black pepper, oregano, bay leaf, basil, onion. French dip jus seems like broth or bullion.

Beef juice is often more oily than dip jus I've had. I guess this is from beef drippings and/or added olive and vegetable oil.

The texture of French dip beef is more like deli roast beef. Italian beef should be very wet, maybe a little stringy and it seems like its been in the juice a while, maybe simmered for a bit.

*Al's uses a unique/bizzaro pumpkin pie-like seasoning I don't really care for.

[Sarahfeena]

I just googled Lukes and the one on 12 didn't come up on the map for some reason. All is well assuming you guys aren't having me on some bizaar elaborate joke to get me to go to a Lukes that's actually closed. ;)The one I'm thinking of is called Tore and Lukes now, I think. And I'm pretty sure it's on Rand Rd in Palatine. Honest! :)

[Mr. Frink]

Has anyone on the board ever tried to cook a "true" chicago italian beef at home? How easy was it? what ingredients/spices did you use? How easy was it to slice it Italian-beef style?

I'm specifically looking for people who tried something like the above mentioned Buona Beef's recipe, or one of the recipes wikipedia links to:

http://www.gonnella.com/cookbook/italian_beef.htm

http://press.teleinteractive.net/cynasuralog/2007/03/04/italian_beef

I'm particularly interested in this topic because I may be relocating to Montana in a few months, and don't think I can bare to live without this perfect example of why chicago is the best food city in the u.s.

Portillo's combo guy here

[Kona Tony]

You can come up with a good approximation of Italian beef with a little effort. There's some good recipes on the web. The biggest problem is probably the last thing you might think about: the bread!
Proper Italian bread is essential to hold the whole thing together.
I moved to Hawaii with expectations of paradise. You cannot have paradise without a good beef "sangwitch". The bread here doesn't cut it, too soft on the crust. The closest thing I've found is a Vietnamese restaurant that has decent French rolls!
(Ed can fill in about the "French roll" in Vietnamese history.)
Anyway today is Xmas eve and we're tapping into the Portillo's beef and gravy that we brought back from our Chicago visit this last July.
Count your blessings you guys and have a Combo for me.

[MikeG]

I just wanted to state, that in my attempts to find an italian beef when I visit the NW suburbs this next week, I was dissappointed to find that both of the nearby Luke's have been shut down. In fact, it seems that Luke's is barely a footnote in the Chicago area nowdays.

This will not affect my mission, it will only make it more difficult. I will simply go to my old workplace and get the italian beef I grew up on. The problem is figuring out what my wife will eat since she almost universally does not eat beef.

You're in luck. The very best Italian Beef in the Chicago area (and by extension, the known universe), is to be found at Johnnie's.

There are two locations, the original on North Ave a few blocks W of Harlem and the NW Suburban location on Arlington Heights Road just south of Golf


Johnnie's

7500 W North Ave
Elmwood Park, IL 60707
(708) 452-6000


1935 S Arlington Heights Rd
Arlington Hts, IL 60005
(847) 357-8100

[UncleBeer]

And I always thought that gyros could be gotten anywhere. Not that I look for them or anything, but they're pretty ubiquitous anyplace I've ever been.

Well, except Oslo.
No Italian beef here in NW Ohio, either. But we do have some damn fine gyros. Better than I've found in the Chicago area even. Probably owing to our large middle eastern population.

[UncleBeer]

The one I'm thinking of is called Tore and Lukes now, I think. And I'm pretty sure it's on Rand Rd in Palatine. Honest! :)

It's currently being relocated to somewhere very nearby. That corner has been sold to a developer and is under construction.

[WarmNPrickly]

I didn't notice any construction. It was definitely there as Tore and Lukes. Yum

[Girl Next Door]

I'd never heard of Italian Beef in my life 'til my sister sent a gift box from Portillo's this Christmas. Heavenly!

[UncleBeer]

I didn't notice any construction. It was definitely there as Tore and Lukes. Yum

The new place is actually still on Rand just a bit east on the south side of the road. Pretty nice looking brick structure. The old place was on the north-east corner (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tore+%26+luke&sll=42.1486,-88.0306&sspn=0.0039021,0.00791881&ie=UTF8&v=2.2&cv=4.3.7284.3916&hl=en&ei=JIpiSenxGoW-Nv-8qbQK&cd=1&cid=42148021,-88030467,69286632894997349&li=lmd&ll=42.151951,-88.030443&spn=0.036907,0.063257&z=14&iwloc=A).

[laurengr12]

I was thrilled to see this thread!!! I thought I was the only person in the world who misses this food!! I am living in Cincinnati for 11 yrs now, and there is NOTHING here that even resembles Italian Beef. The food here in Ohio is so bland it's barely edible. We actually make food trips back home to bring back about 3 coolers worth of stuff. I did order Portillo's IB off the web, and it's the same, but we like going home for the other stuff, and just to be home.

Anyway, I sent Portillo's a request to open a restaurant here in Cincy, but they said that it would be impossible to control the quality! bummer! (Not only that, I don't think they'd probably be all that successful due to the people here not seeming to like much that is spicy)

Anyways, there will never be a French Dip that compares because of the spices in the IB au jus. I have found that if I get the big containers of Beef & Au jus from Portillo's that when the beef runs out, I save the container of au jus. I can get Angus Roast Beef from Kroger, have it sliced very very thin & re-use that au jus with the beef until it runs out. I've kinda fixed the roll situation, by buying half-baked bagettes from Kroger that you pop in the oven. That helps get the crunchy texture with the soft insides, but they still tend to fall apart a bit. So that helps us stretch out our supply. I have some in the fridge right now & just bought the rolls a couple of days ago. I can tell you that the smell of heating it up on the stove just makes it all worthwhile.

I had never heard of Buona's & when I was on a business trip I decided to give it a try with an associate fr MN who had never had IB. I was very disappointed. It is no where near the quality of Portillo's or Al's, and the flavor was definitely not as good. We do prefer Portillo's but in comparing the quality of the beef vs the Kroger Angus beef, I've noticed that Portillo's beef has some stuff in it that I don't like the looks of. It looks like lines of cartilage or something. I never see it in the Kroger Angus beef.

Other than that, I can recommend having Portillo's ship you the beef. It's really not that much more expensive than picking it up.

[samclem]

I was thrilled to see this thread!!! I thought I was the only person in the world who misses this food!! I am living in Cincinnati for 11 yrs now, and there is NOTHING here that even resembles Italian Beef. The food here in Ohio is so bland it's barely edible.

It's not OHIO that has bland food, it's just Cinci. :)

[tnetennba]

I wouldn't mind a Skyline in Minneapolis, actually.

[Oolah]

Enough about us Californians and our french dip already, Zotti baby. Next time try eating at a restaurant out here, not a fast food joint, and ask them to dip the whole sandwich. It won't be an Italian Beef, but it will be a French Dip, instead of a French Dribble.

[Ed Zotti]

Enough about us Californians and our french dip already, Zotti baby. Next time try eating at a restaurant out here, not a fast food joint, and ask them to dip the whole sandwich. It won't be an Italian Beef, but it will be a French Dip, instead of a French Dribble.A little sensitive, are we? I mentioned CA once. I'm confident you have wonderful restaurants out there, although I'd be a little surprised if any of them considered French dip the height of fine dining. The subject under discussion, however, is fast food, which isn't sold in restaurants (except by a broad definition of the term), but rather in joints.

[bobot]

For those of you on the South Side or in the South Burbs, Rubino's Italian Import Deli in Tinley Park has one of the most awesome, sizeable, and inexpensive beef sammitches around. 167th and Oak Park.
I get mine with mozz. and "natural gravy", as they call it. That's your standard beef dunking juice, only it comes in a cup on the side.
:)

[Atomic Mama]

Can anyone tell me if there is a for-real Italian Beef/Sausage Combo stand at O'Hare Airport? Which terminal????

Y'all are killing me. I"M STARVING for the real deal.

Ex-Chicagoan here. Or ... what's the best online connection? Affordable?????? Pleezzzzzzzzz?

[Missy2U]

Can anyone tell me if there is a for-real Italian Beef/Sausage Combo stand at O'Hare Airport? Which terminal????

Y'all are killing me. I"M STARVING for the real deal.

Ex-Chicagoan here. Or ... what's the best online connection? Affordable?????? Pleezzzzzzzzz?

Papa Charlie's. (http://www.papacharlies.com/shop_papa_charlies.php)

It's our favorite. Whenever it's on sale at Jewel or Dominick's, we stock up. At one point we had like four tubs of it in the freezer. And they do mail order too.

As does Tastes of Chicago. (http://www.tastesofchicago.com/) I love them because their prices include shipping.

[Missy2U]

The bread is the hardest thing for me to replicate because it's so hard to find really fresh sub rolls here in the burbs. They need that ultra soft interior with that glossy tough crust to be able to handle the gravy without turning into mush in your hands.

Turano or Gonella or Rosen's - Jewel has 'em - we get the ones marked extra soft (there's a sticker on the bag). They hold up to the beef really, really well. They have the chewy tough crust but they're very soft on the inside.

[MikeG]

I ate at Johnnies in Arlington Hts. today. A juicy combo sweet with a small Italian lemonade, made winter seem like it might actually be leaving soon.

[sps49sd]

There is a place in Vallejo, CA (north end of SF Bay) just outside the former Mare Island Navy Yard that actually imports their beef from Chicago.

Gumbah's is the name.

Good stuff!

[Marley23]

Welcome to the boards, sps49sd. I've moved your post into this longer discussion of Italian beef.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Agreed. I've been having Italian beef since childhood, and I've never had cheese on it. I don't doubt you can get it, but nobody would claim this is central to the Italian beef experience. However, if you get yours dry and without peppers, in my opinion you're drifting far from the core concept and might as well move to California and order French dip and put pineapple on your pizza and be done with it. Now Ed...there are worse things to put on pizza. There's cheddar cheese, for instance. I love cheddar cheese, by itself or with any number of other foodstuffs, but it does NOT belong on PIZZA!

Anyone who dares to bring me a pizza with cheddar cheese on it risks a good smiting.

[fluiddruid]

Cheddar, no. Monterey Jack, mais oui!

[kev3inp]

Here in the wilds of South Florida it's been exceptionally hard to find Chicago delicacies, but finally my search has borne fruit. We found a place in Margate that has real Italian beef, pizza puffs, Vienna beef hot dogs, and gyros! The big hassle is that it's only open for lunch and most days we don't have the time to get there.

While there is no shortage of New York foodstuffs here due to all the nuts rolling downhill, true Chicago food is very hard to find. If I want real deep dish and not the cardboard greasy crap that New Yorkers call pizza I have to drive to Orlando to the Giordannos and Unos there. Well, it's only 3 hours away so it could be worse.

We've ordered Lou Malnotti's and Giordannos and had the frozen ones delivered, but it's very pricey, especially Giordannos. We've ordered Portillos, and that was pretty good, they even enclose one or two of those paper hats with the package.
As for the frozen stuff, we've been the major advocates of Papa Charlie's down here and encourage everyone to try it so we can continue to get it. The hardest part is finding suitable bread.

As for cheese and condiments, I never recall cheese being offered, just if I wanted "hot or sweet." And dipped, please!

[sps49sd]

I was only in Chicago from June 84 to May 85 and hadn't heard about Italian Beef.

My friend who likes the one here (Vallejo/ Mare Island) is a Chicago native and I have to trust him, but it sounds consistent (no cheese, hot or regular peppers, messy) with the comments here.

[Ass For A Hat]

You can't find the real deal here in Minneapolis that I know of...
Have you tried Chris & Rob's (http://www.chrisandrobs.com) (formerly Joey D's)? I can't personally vouch for their Italian beef, but their dogs and polishes are quite good.

[genaldar]

Have you tried Chris & Rob's (http://www.chrisandrobs.com) (formerly Joey D's)? I can't personally vouch for their Italian beef, but their dogs and polishes are quite good.
I haven't eaten there since High School (10 years or so) but I wasn't a huge fan of their beefs. I'm not from Chicago, but I've been eating them since I was a kid (they show up in the oddest places here in Minneapolis). My personal favorite was at a dump called Slice of Chicago in the Midway shopping center in St. Paul. The beef wasn't authentic (it never is) and the bread is more of a crusty french style loaf (it usually is) but damn tasty. Perfect mix of peppers and they would drown my sandwich for me (I love them that way). I've heard its moved further away from Minneapolis on University, but I can't verify that. I used to always get the foot long (like I said, the bread isn't authentic) with a sausage. For an extra buck they slapped on an 8 inch grilled sausage. For under $10 you could get a sandwich even I considered huge.

Before that there was a great dago beef at a corner store at Bloomington and Franklin here in Minneapolis. Which is odd since at the time it was owned by middle easterners (who apparently lived in Chicago for years before moving north) and is in a neighborhood that was predominantly American Indian. Last time I went there it was owned by Somali who had never been to Chicago and made a terrible beef. BTW I can't believe someone hadn't heard that term, every Italian I've met from Chicago calls them that, people must be worried about the racial insensitive nature of dago.

Steer clear of Philly Dawgz. Their beef is stringy, their rolls aren't quite right, their cheese tastes fake and they never get them wet enough (at least not for me). Personally I think theirs is probably closer to the real deal (except the quality of beef) but growing up with the beefs I did I prefer the less authentic Minneapolis version (lets call it a messy beef).

[Ed Zotti]

Check out this podcast (episode #128) from Outside the Loop on WLUW-FM in which Mike Stephen and Andy Hermann interview me about Italian beef:

http://www.outsidetheloopradio.com/otl/2009/03/

[WarmNPrickly]

I just found an italian beef place in Springfield Missouri. I had it dipped, and I think that is the way I will always have it now. So there is at least one place outside the Chicago area that serves italian beef. This place also has Chicago Dogs, Gyros and thin crust Chicago pizza.

[BigT]

Hey, guys! Where's the link to the original column? The only links I see are stuff by Wikipedia and Ed. And it would totally burst my bubble if Cecil was really........a bunch of random wiki editors. :)

ETA: Found it: http://chicago.straightdope.com/sdc20090219.php

[kittenblue]

I should not read these threads before eating. Now I'm craving something I've never had! I'm going to be in Chicago this weekend, staying near O'Hare, with a side trip to Ikea and Great America. Where would be the best place, close to the hotel, to sample this delicacy? Last trip I did your hotdogs...this time I want beef!

[Ed Zotti]

There's a Portillo's in Elk Grove Village, which is near O'Hare; for details see:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g35945-d516963-Reviews-Portillo_s_Hot_Dogs-Elk_Grove_Village_Illinois.html

Nondescript industrial location, extremely busy at lunchtime, but they're well organized and can whip you through there pretty fast. They make an excellent Italian beef.

[samclem]

Last trip I did your hotdogs...this time I want beef!
Good move. I can't really belive that people put fresh tomatoes and celery salt on hot dogs. :D

Although, their hot dogs are beef, too

[kittenblue]

Surprisingly, samclem, it wasn't that bad. And they may well be beef, but they don't taste like roast beef, now, do they?

I had Chicagoans for customers today, so I asked their opinions on where to go, and they voted for Al's and Portillo's, and told me how I was going to order it, and what I wanted on it...and by the time they left the store they were starving and craving! They just could not stop raving about Italian beef. It had better be good....lol. I will report back.....

[kittenblue]

Okay...reporting back. I just got home...we ate there yesterday at 4 pm (why, yes, we are old) and while the chopped salad was great, the sandwich was less than ethereal. And we both felt ill later...he because he's allergic to chocolate and thinks his vanilla milkshake may have had some contact with the chocolate spout...and me...well, no clear answer, but I have issues anyhow, so it could have been the french fries..not really supposed to eat many. I thought it was an okay sandwich, but not worth the half-hour drive.

Next trip we try the pizza.

[turner]

http://www.recipezaar.com/95534

This is the best recipe I've found. the secret here is to cook the meat rare. They say 30 minutes per pound. I have greater sucess with 20 minutes per pound (pouring the gravy over it and then reheating the next day cooks it the rest of the way). Invest in a meat slicer (less than $100), make double the gravy (cut the hot sauce in half) and when heating the next day heat the gravy only then dunk the meat for a minute or two to warm through. Don't heat the meat and the gravy together or the meat will get tough. VERY close to the real thing.