I pit Poverty and the current economic crisis [Archive]

Blalron

01-01-2009, 12:38 PM

I'm dirt poor right now. I don't own a car. My workplace has been giving me barely enough hours to feed myself and keep a roof over my head. I'll only have enough to do those two things this month because I got some Christmas money from my mother. If it weren't for potatoes, milk, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches I'd be starving to death.

For months I've been planning on moving into a new home about 25 miles away with 4 friends. This was part of a larger scheme by me to go back to (community) college and get an education, and to improve my station in life. The new home is within walking distance of the college, and would be ideal for me. But then the Economic Crisis happened. One of the big paper mills in the New City is shutting down, and now job opportunities for unskilled laborers such as myself are as rare as hens teeth. I've been scouring the internet and the newspapers for jobs that I could actually do over there, and I'm coming up with zilch. All I've found there is is skilled labor and managerial positions, none of which I'm qualified for.

So far the places I've walked in on and asked for applications weren't hiring. "Come back in a couple weeks maybe" was the most optimistic answer I've heard so far.

I've got one extra pair of contact lenses in addition to the ones in my eyes right now. A scratchy 5 year old pair of glasses as a final failsafe, but if I have to rely on those glasses I'll be able to see clearly six feet in front of my face instead of six inches.

I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. This really sucks.

ivan astikov

01-01-2009, 01:14 PM

The best thing about being on your arse, is at least things can't get much worse, and they could always get considerably better.

Kalhoun

01-01-2009, 01:28 PM

Here are some things that might help you make ends meet:

Window washing
Dog walking
Shoveling walks
Apply at temp agencies

I hope things work out for you. It's tough out there.

George Kaplin

01-01-2009, 01:35 PM

A few more suggestions:

1) Bar work.
2) Late night supermarket shelf stacking.
3) Proof-reading.
4) Mugging.

ivylass

01-01-2009, 01:39 PM

Are none of the fast food chains hiring? How about the grocery stores, Wal-Mart, Target, etc? How about restaurants...you can make good money as a server.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 01:55 PM

I was also going to recommend applying with Temp agencies. Be willing to stuff envelopes, answer phones or do warehouse work. Register with several. Call each of them every morning and ask what new work has come in that morning and be dressed and available to head out the door. If nothing's in yet, ask them to put you on the daily "available" list. There's a science to actually getting the work these agencies farm out.

If you lived in my neighborhood, I'd pay you to come rake the obnoxious leaves and bulbs from the giant magnolia tree in front of my house. I've been seriously considering knocking on neighbors' doors to see if any kids in the neighborhood want to make some extra cash. So walk around your neighborhood and see if anyone would be willing to pay someone to do odd jobs around their property.

Don't be ashamed to take advantage of your local church or mission to get a hot meal from time to time. That's what they're there for, and it will help you stretch your budget.

All the best to you in the new year.

Blalron

01-01-2009, 02:02 PM

Are none of the fast food chains hiring? How about the grocery stores, Wal-Mart, Target, etc? How about restaurants...you can make good money as a server.

Possibly. I haven't gone through all my options yet. I'm just kind of pissed that I actually have to pound the pavement looking for work... I hate that method of job searching with every fiber of my being. It's a gigantic pain in the ass for me to go from Old City to the New City, I have to rely on the charity of friends to shuttle me there.... which means they have to drive 50 miles roundtrip.

Harriet the Spry

01-01-2009, 02:19 PM

Do your research on how much you can put applications on file online with places like Target, major restaurant chains, etc. It may still be to your advantage to show up in person to show that you're motivated, etc. but at least you can do it more efficiently.

Also, ask your friends to let you use a local address and phone number for your job search. Way too many employers automatically roundfile applications from people who aren't local. Don't let that work against you.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 02:48 PM

Here are some things that might help you make ends meet.........Apply at temp agencies
I don't know about the OP's area, but in MY area the temp agencies stopped taking on people 8 months ago. I know, because I went to 4 of them. This isn't a normal downturn in the economy. I have a college degree and 25 years work experience and the temp agencies couldn't get work for me, much less someone who is an unskilled laborer.

Kalhoun

01-01-2009, 02:51 PM

I don't know about the OP's area, but in MY area the temp agencies stopped taking on people 8 months ago. I know, because I went to 4 of them. This isn't a normal downturn in the economy. I have a college degree and 25 years work experience and the temp agencies couldn't get work for me, much less someone who is an unskilled laborer.

Sometimes the unskilled labor spots are easier to get through an agency. THey'd rather pay an agency to find a person to pick and pack stuff, as opposed to offering benefits to a low-end employee.

Forgot to add that a friend's daughter is doing this right now at a local med supply joint.

Duckster

01-01-2009, 02:54 PM

Use the start of a new year to motivate yourself that things will get better.

Start your job search tomorrow, the day after New Years Day. Yeah, some potential employers may be closed but don't let this deter you. Do it again on Monday. Think positive. Think that practically everyone you see as a potential job link. Ask around. Put out feelers.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 03:08 PM

Also, ask your friends to let you use a local address and phone number for your job search.

I don't think putting fraudulent information on a job application is such a good idea. Might come back to bite ya in the ass later on.

Cat Whisperer

01-01-2009, 03:13 PM

I would suggest a two-pronged approach: the first prong is reducing your expenses, and the second prong is increasing your income. There may be things in your life you can reduce further, even if you think you're living pretty barebones right now - you didn't mention if you have roommates, but you might be able to move to a cheaper place (rent a room in a house, for example). I don't know if you have a local food bank, but I hit mine up once in awhile when things were particularly tight (and I donate to them now that things are better).

The second prong is increasing the income, and as everyone else has said, any job will do in a pinch. Cleaning houses, answering phones, gas jockey, dishwashing - those jobs are usually still available when almost everything else has dried up, because no one really wants to do them. There's lots of good advice here already - network, talk with friends, talk to everyone you meet about how you need a few more hours of work a week.

If your area is chronically depressed, have you considered moving? I know people don't like to hear the idea of going somewhere else to make a living, but it is a reality. I'm in Calgary because of it; I didn't leave Saskatchewan because I didn't like it there; I left because there were no jobs there.

Kalhoun

01-01-2009, 03:29 PM

To echo Featherlou's suggestion: Cleaning houses pays very well. You can undersell the competition and still do quite well.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 04:08 PM

Possibly. I haven't gone through all my options yet. I'm just kind of pissed that I actually have to pound the pavement looking for work... I hate that method of job searching with every fiber of my being. It's a gigantic pain in the ass for me to go from Old City to the New City, I have to rely on the charity of friends to shuttle me there.... which means they have to drive 50 miles roundtrip.

So sorry you have to "pound the pavement," you poor dear. :rolleyes:

Your current troubles are a direct result of decisions you've made. Hopefully the silver lining here is that you will make better decisions in the future.

Your post quoted above makes you look like somewhat of an idiot. If you want to bump that up to "complete idiot" (see, e.g., Acid Lamp, Broomstick), then keep replying to this thread to tell everyone why their suggestions for getting you out of this situation won't work.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 04:28 PM

So sorry you have to "pound the pavement," you poor dear. :rolleyes:

Your current troubles are a direct result of decisions you've made. Hopefully the silver lining here is that you will make better decisions in the future.
Not everyone finds themself in poverty due to their own decisions. As an example, it certainly wasn't my decision for my former employer to cut staff and put me out on the street. 13 years of excellent performance reviews meant nothing when it came time to cut costs. It's condescending at best to tell someone "it's your fault" when we have no more information than what's in the OP.

Your post quoted above makes you look like somewhat of an idiot. If you want to bump that up to "complete idiot" (see, e.g., Acid Lamp, Broomstick), then keep replying to this thread to tell everyone why their suggestions for getting you out of this situation won't work.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, but cautioning someone that a suggested route is no easy fix hardly classifies one as "complete idiot". As it happens, I have been hanging on for the past year doing exactly the sort of odd jobs suggested. It has been extremely precarious.

Poverty sucks, as I've said before, and anyone in the OP's predicament needs to vent. Stating such real-life obstacles as "I don't have a car" is hardly complaining in the normal sense. It's a real obstacle. It's no different than when someone a month ago suggested I join the military and I pointed out that they don't accept people over 40 for basic training. It's not a complaint so much as a request for another suggestion or a way around an obstacle. But then, since I've been where the OP is perhaps I have more empathy and sympathy and can read past the frustration.

Yes, I've cut back on expenses, pounded the pavement, submitted resumes, considered moving, appealed to local government and agencies for assistance and so forth. It's still not enough. What I need is fulltime employment at a living wage (which minimum wage is not) and I don't give a damn whether it's skilled or unskilled. Fact is, at least in my area, a lot of the unskilled jobs are going to people who HAVE experience in skilled work, or college degrees, or decades of work experience leaving the young, the inexperienced, and the less educated out in the cold (in some cases, literally). I put in a garden last summer to grow some of my own food. I've been selling off my possessions for the last two months. It's still not enough. If I don't get something in the next few months I will be homeless, as will my disabled husband.

Monday of this week there was a three block line at the unemployment office as of 8 am in the morning. There are NO, repeat NO want ads in the local papers, not even for crap jobs. It's been like that for weeks. The expectation is that it will only get worse.

So, when someone shows up with a tale of woe and some of their posts are a little pissy I cut them some slack because in at least some places in the US it is looking pretty hopeless right now. When you're poor and struggling there really is a lot to be frustrated and angry about, and I am willing to give the poor and struggling some space to let it out. Being able to unload is part of what enables a person to get out of bed on Monday morning and hit the streets again knowing they will hear the word "no" over and over again for the next eight hours, the next week, the next month, until they finally get that yes. The last thing someone struggling needs is a verbal slap in the face because they aren't all happy and chipper 100% of the time.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 04:31 PM

SIf you want to bump that up to "complete idiot" (see, e.g., Acid Lamp, Broomstick), then keep replying to this thread to tell everyone why their suggestions for getting you out of this situation won't work.

That position is apparently full. Unless you wish to step down, of course.

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 04:52 PM

So sorry you have to "pound the pavement," you poor dear. :rolleyes:

Did you read the part where he has to have a friend shuttle him 50 miles back and fourth?

You're either illiterate or a troll.

Your current troubles are a direct result of decisions you've made. Hopefully the silver lining here is that you will make better decisions in the future.

Ahh OP held a gun to the executive and legislative branch's head and made the mortgage crises happen. Got it.

Your post quoted above makes you look like somewhat of an idiot.

As opposed to your post which makes you like an illiterate moron.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 04:57 PM

The last thing someone struggling needs is a verbal slap in the face because they aren't all happy and chipper 100% of the time.

If someone is looking for (only) positive affirmation, they shouldn't post in the Pit. How hard is that for a Charter Member to grasp?

Sateryn76

01-01-2009, 04:58 PM

snip...

Monday of this week there was a three block line at the unemployment office as of 8 am in the morning. There are NO, repeat NO want ads in the local papers, not even for crap jobs. It's been like that for weeks. The expectation is that it will only get worse.

snip....

Bolding mine...

I'm confused - we're in the same area - Northwest Indiana, and I just went to both our local papers - The Times and the Post-Tribune. They have plenty of jobs, both unskilled and skilled.

Here's The Times (http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-search;_ylc=X3oDMTFhNDJpazlwBF9TAzM5NjUxMTI1MQRwYXJ0bmVyA253aW5kaWFuYQRzcmMDY29uc29sZQ--?partner=nwindiana&kw=&locations=Munster%2C+IN&metro_search=0&industry=)

Here's the Post Tribune (http://classifieds.post-trib.com/cv3/gary/search?mainclass=Employment&batch_size=10&searchterm%3Alist=&Search.x=134&Search.y=54)

Why are you saying there are no jobs around here? I know you're in a bad situation, but you're not making any sense.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 05:08 PM

If someone is looking for (only) positive affirmation, they shouldn't post in the Pit. How hard is that for a Charter Member to grasp?

Likewise, if someone posts to piss on an OP who's down on his luck and just wants to rant, he shouldn't be surprised when those who are commiserating with the OP set upon this idiot and rip him a new one.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 05:09 PM

Did you read the part where he has to have a friend shuttle him 50 miles back and fourth?

You're either illiterate or a troll.

Ahh OP held a gun to the executive and legislative branch's head and made the mortgage crises happen. Got it.

As opposed to your post which makes you like an illiterate moron.

You've got issues, buddy. At least the OP gets to have at least one guest at his pity party.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 05:10 PM

stretch

01-01-2009, 05:11 PM

Will your friends in New City carry you for a couple of months? Do you have enough hours in to claim unemployment? Have you applied for financial aid for when you do move to New City?

If the answer is yes to number one and two:

Try to get your employer to lay you off or quit your job and move to New City. Apply for unemployment. Put in your one to ten waiting weeks (one if laid off, ten if you quit).

If you can get financial aid and a student loan (maybe someone in your family can co-sign), you can go to school and live off your aid and loan.

If you can come up with some money for a car, let me know and I'll put my network of mechanic friends on finding you a good deal on reliable transportation.

Also, check your PMs.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 05:13 PM

I'm scared now.

I wasn't referring to you, dipshit.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 05:13 PM

Likewise, if someone posts to piss on an OP who's down on his luck and just wants to rant, he shouldn't be surprised when those who are commiserating with the OP set upon this idiot and rip him a new one.

I understand someone wanting to bitch about when life gives them lemons--I don't have a problem with that. What I don't understand and do have a problem with is when the OP then shits all over each offered lemonade recipe (which the OP has not done here yet) or chalks all his troubles up to broader issues (see the title) and complains about things that are perfectly normal parts of life sometimes (i.e., "pounding the pavement").

Also at no point have I felt or expressed "surprise" at other people not sharing my feelings in this thread.

ivylass

01-01-2009, 05:16 PM

How about working from home? I think some call centers have people that work from home...they just need a high speed internet connection. I have no idea how you would find such work, but that's how my daughter's friend earns money.

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 05:17 PM

You've got issues, buddy. At least the OP gets to have at least one guest at his pity party.

Since you didn't defend your position that complaining about long distance pavement pounding is "whining" I'll take this a retraction of your idiotic proposition. Gday.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 05:20 PM

I understand someone wanting to bitch about when life gives them lemons--I don't have a problem with that. What I don't understand and do have a problem with is when the OP then shits all over each offered lemonade recipe (which the OP has not done here yet)...

Since he hasn't do it, why mention it? It's irrelevant.

...or chalks all his troubles up to broader issues (see the title)...

Good thing he hasn't done that. However, some of his troubles certainly ARE the result of the current economic situation. Just because you and I aren't suffering because of it, doesn't mean others aren't.

...and complains about things that are perfectly normal parts of life sometimes (i.e., "pounding the pavement").

You seem to once again overlooked the fact that for the OP, "pounding the pavement" means a round-trip drive of 50 miles, for which he must rely on friends. This isn't a case of simply having to walk around town looking for "Help Wanted" signs. If that's what he was complaining about, I'd be right there with you. But, it ain't.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 05:26 PM

Since he hasn't do it, why mention it? It's irrelevant.
Because I mentioned it in my first post to this thread.

Good thing he hasn't done that. However, some of his troubles certainly ARE the result of the current economic situation. Just because you and I aren't suffering because of it, doesn't mean others aren't.

:rolleyes: Wrong. The title says he pits the current economic situation but the OP is all about himself.

You seem to once again overlooked the fact that for the OP, "pounding the pavement" means a round-trip drive of 50 miles, for which he must rely on friends. This isn't a case of simply having to walk around town looking for "Help Wanted" signs. If that's what he was complaining about, I'd be right there with you. But, it ain't.

Tough shit. If that's the only way to find the types of jobs he's looking for in the new city then that's what he's got to do.

Anywho, you and Tao and the OP enjoy your pity party, I'm sure Acid Lamp will be here shortly. I'll go off and enjoy the fruits of the good decisions I've made in life. I hope those playing the home game take some lessons.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 05:34 PM

Bolding mine...

I'm confused - we're in the same area - Northwest Indiana, and I just went to both our local papers - The Times and the Post-Tribune. They have plenty of jobs, both unskilled and skilled.

Here's The Times (http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-search;_ylc=X3oDMTFhNDJpazlwBF9TAzM5NjUxMTI1MQRwYXJ0bmVyA253aW5kaWFuYQRzcmMDY29uc29sZQ--?partner=nwindiana&kw=&locations=Munster%2C+IN&metro_search=0&industry=)
That link takes me to Yahoo, not the Times.

Here's the Post Tribune (http://classifieds.post-trib.com/cv3/gary/search?mainclass=Employment&batch_size=10&searchterm%3Alist=&Search.x=134&Search.y=54)
7 ads total does not make for "plenty"

Perhaps it was just a recent print edition, but last week I did indeed see paper editions of the local papers that were without want ads. Perhaps they had ads on their website, but that did me little good while waiting outside for over an hour in the cold without access to computer as I waited just to get in the door of the unemployment office. Perhaps someone had stolen the want ads from every copy of the paper at that newstand. All I know is that I couldn't find a copy of the paper that had want ads in it.

Why are you saying there are no jobs around here? I know you're in a bad situation, but you're not making any sense.
Actually, I stated I had manage to find work of sorts, just not steady and not well paying.

Harriet the Spry

01-01-2009, 05:35 PM

I don't think putting fraudulent information on a job application is such a good idea. Might come back to bite ya in the ass later on.

If it's a legitimate mailing address for you, which it is if your friends agree to accept mail for you there, it's not fraudulent information. It's not like a job application asks if you hold title to the house.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 05:35 PM

I wasn't referring to you, dipshit.

You quoted my post, dipshit.

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 05:37 PM

Tough shit. If that's the only way to find the types of jobs he's looking for in the new city then that's what he's got to do.

No one is saying he doesn't have to do it. What you're too stupid to fucking get is it's a shitty situation to be in and the economy isn't his fucking fault.

ITT: a typical free market idiot worried more about sucking AIG's cock then reading for comprehension.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 05:39 PM

:rolleyes: Wrong. The title says he pits the current economic situation but the OP is all about himself.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Of course it's about himself. He's pitting the current economy because it's the primary cause of the rough time he's in now. How else is he going to explain it without talking about, y'know, his circumstances. :rolleyes: right back atcha.

Tough shit. If that's the only way to find the types of jobs he's looking for in the new city then that's what he's got to do.

No shit, Sherlock. Really? :rolleyes: again. He knows what he has to do, and as far as I can tell, he's willing to do what he has to do. Doesn't mean he can't be pissed off by it. Or *gasp* tell us he's pissed off about it.

Anywho, you and Tao and the OP enjoy your pity party, I'm sure Acid Lamp will be here shortly.

What makes you think I'm in the same situation? Fact is, I haven't had it this good in a while. But, making a point of that in a thread started by someone in a world of financial hurt would be crass. I may be a lot of things, but the kind of guy who pees in someone's cheerios after they tell me his life SUCKS isn't one of them. Usually.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 05:41 PM

You quoted my post, dipshit.

No duh. Please learn the difference between "referring to" and "responding to."

kthxbye

Sateryn76

01-01-2009, 05:41 PM

That link takes me to Yahoo, not the Times.

The Times has contracted out their want ads to Yahoo - they are searchable by zip code. The one I linked to is for Munster; Gary has two pages worth.

7 ads total does not make for "plenty"

Fair enough - but those are just the new listings. The Post-Trib has a poor website design, integrated with the Chicago Sun Times.

Perhaps it was just a recent print edition, but last week I did indeed see paper editions of the local papers that were without want ads. Perhaps they had ads on their website, but that did me little good while waiting outside for over an hour in the cold without access to computer as I waited just to get in the door of the unemployment office. Perhaps someone had stolen the want ads from every copy of the paper at that newstand. All I know is that I couldn't find a copy of the paper that had want ads in it.

I do not dispute that the economy is shitty, and I'm not trying to be snarky. But I'm very curious, and since we both know this area...

Why can't you find a job? I know that our local papers are filledwith job listings. Granted, some of them are "nationwide" scam-kinda listings, but there are still many, many jobs. I am a paralegal, and out of curiosity, I always check the clerical/admin type of jobs. There are tons of them around here, and that's just in my field.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 05:43 PM

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 05:47 PM

If it's a legitimate mailing address for you, which it is if your friends agree to accept mail for you there, it's not fraudulent information. It's not like a job application asks if you hold title to the house.

Hey, do what you want, but lying on your job application doesn't sound like a particularly good strategy to me.

FarmerChick

01-01-2009, 05:47 PM

So sorry you have to "pound the pavement," you poor dear. :rolleyes:

Your current troubles are a direct result of decisions you've made. Hopefully the silver lining here is that you will make better decisions in the future.

Your post quoted above makes you look like somewhat of an idiot. If you want to bump that up to "complete idiot" (see, e.g., Acid Lamp, Broomstick), then keep replying to this thread to tell everyone why their suggestions for getting you out of this situation won't work.

WTF?

I don't think putting fraudulent information on a job application is such a good idea. Might come back to bite ya in the ass later on.

Yer an idiot.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 05:55 PM

Why can't you find a job? I know that our local papers are filledwith job listings. Granted, some of them are "nationwide" scam-kinda listings, but there are still many, many jobs. I am a paralegal, and out of curiosity, I always check the clerical/admin type of jobs. There are tons of them around here, and that's just in my field.
As I said, I have found work - in construction and retail, of all things, but nothing fulltime or lasting. It's not enough work and it's not enough money. My savings are slowly dwindling over time as they must cover anything my meager paychecks don't.

I suspect one factor in my difficulty is a company policy of my former employer. They will only confirm that you were employed, the dates of employment, and that you were either satisfactory or unsatisfactory. I can not get a reference from any current employee of that company because to give out such information is very clearly spelled out as a firing offense (and yes, in my 13 years there I did see people fired for doing just that). These days, given the competition for jobs, if you can't get a glowing recommendation from your former manager you're shit out of luck. EVERYONE laid off from that company goes through this shit, but these days it really works against a person. All the positive recommendations from other former employees, including high level management, immediate supervisors, and peers, apparently is not sufficient. They want the most recent manager who, still being employed there and in fear of her own job, is not going to risk getting fired for my benefit.

Thus, I am trying to build up a rep as a good worker doing other jobs so I can deliver more current references saying how wonderful I am. But this takes time. Meanwhile, my savings bleed.

Being over 40 doesn't help either. Yes, I know age discrimination is illegal, but it still happens.

I applied, and still apply, for administrative work and in 13 months I've only managed to get three interviews total. Hence, I also applied for retail and asked a general contractor I know for work. Neither pays anything near what I earned before and neither is fulltime, but it's better than nothing. Trust me, for every listed job there will be a LOT of people applying and only one gets in the door. So far, my best prospect is still the government job I applied for, but the hiring process takes months and I'm still going through it. I'm really hoping it comes through before I'm out of money.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 05:57 PM

Hey, do what you want, but lying on your job application doesn't sound like a particularly good strategy to me.
I have two addresses - one a residence, one mailing address. They are actually in two different (although neighboring) cities. When giving the mailing address (and not just to employers but to other things, like government agencies) I state "this is a mailing address, not my street address. Is that OK?" If the other party says yes it's OK. If they insist on a street address then that's what I have to give. That's not lying in any way.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 06:03 PM

I have two addresses - one a residence, one mailing address. They are actually in two different (although neighboring) cities. When giving the mailing address (and not just to employers but to other things, like government agencies) I state "this is a mailing address, not my street address. Is that OK?" If the other party says yes it's OK. If they insist on a street address then that's what I have to give. That's not lying in any way.

It is to give out your friend's address, instead of your own.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 06:04 PM

It is to give out your friend's address, instead of your own.

Cite?

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 06:07 PM

I'm torn between a wish for them to learn the error of their ways and the immorality of wishing harm on another human being.

Then, you're a better person than me.

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 06:07 PM

It is to give out your friend's address, instead of your own.

Uh wasn't he moving in with his friends anyway?

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 06:12 PM

It is to give out your friend's address, instead of your own.
If you clearly state "This is not my residence, this is a place I receive mail" and the other party says OK to that there is nothing wrong with using that address. It could be a business, a PO box, a relative, one of those places that sell mailboxes outside of the USPS... as long as all parties are agreeable it's OK. Why do you have trouble understanding that?

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 06:23 PM

If you clearly state "This is not my residence, this is a place I receive mail" and the other party says OK to that there is nothing wrong with using that address. It could be a business, a PO box, a relative, one of those places that sell mailboxes outside of the USPS... as long as all parties are agreeable it's OK. Why do you have trouble understanding that?

Maybe, but that's not what Harriet the Spry suggested. She said to use someone's address/phone that was closer to new city, but there is no indication that the OP receives mail/calls there.

In other words, a lie.

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 06:25 PM

Carol Stream, how lovely to see you back! You had an enjoyable holiday, I trust?

Made all the cheerier, I'm sure, by driving past the homeless shelters where people were lining up for a Christmas dinner, rolling down your window, and shrieking at them to GET A JOB!

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:28 PM

Oh, for fuck's sake. Of course it's about himself. He's pitting the current economy because it's the primary cause of the rough time he's in now. How else is he going to explain it without talking about, y'know, his circumstances. :rolleyes: right back atcha.

The bolded part is wrong.

What makes you think I'm in the same situation?

Didn't say or imply you were.

But, making a point of that in a thread started by someone in a world of financial hurt would be crass. I may be a lot of things, but the kind of guy who pees in someone's cheerios after they tell me his life SUCKS isn't one of them. Usually.

If the OP's position were just "my life sucks right now," then I wouldn't have posted in this thread. Intead, he's blaming the economy instead of his bad decisions and then complaining he's got to do some hard work.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 06:31 PM

Bricker

01-01-2009, 06:32 PM

There are NO, repeat NO want ads in the local papers, not even for crap jobs. It's been like that for weeks. The expectation is that it will only get worse.

See, that claim is a little different from this:

Perhaps someone had stolen the want ads from every copy of the paper at that newstand. All I know is that I couldn't find a copy of the paper that had want ads in it.

The latter suggests that not finding the want ads was a one-time thing. The first one suggests that there are no "repeat, NO" ads, and it's been like that for weeks.

So which is it?

From my perch, it sure looks like "NO, repeat NO" claim is bullshit.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 06:32 PM

If the OP's position were just "my life sucks right now," then I wouldn't have posted in this thread. Intead, he's blaming the economy instead of his bad decisions and then complaining he's got to do some hard work.

What evidence do you have that his troubles are largely due to bad decisions as opposed to the economic downturn? IOW, please cite a single bad decision the OP has revealed to us that he's made.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:34 PM

The likes of Rand Rover like to think that when people suffer misfortune it's all the victim's fault because that magically insulates them from harm as, of course, the Rand Rover's of the world only make good decisions, never mistakes, and factors outside themselves can't possibly hurt them.

Well who the hell else's fault is it? Winston Churchill's? Barack Obama's? Sigmund Freud's?

I'm torn between a wish for them to learn the error of their ways and the immorality of wishing harm on another human being.

I'll never find myself in the position of not being able to find a job. You know why? I've worked my ass off since I learned to walk and I have developed skills and experience that are in high demand. So I'm not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn't gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer.

You can wish for the same thing as the OP to happen to me all you want but it won't because I've made it impossible. I may at some point have to take a job that pays less than my current job (or less than I'm making at that point), but I won't be on the streets.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:35 PM

IOW, please cite a single bad decision the OP has revealed to us that he's made.

He hasn't been to college. He has no ability to get work other than as an unsilled laborer.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:39 PM

OH NO EVERYBODY! I just walked outside in the rain and got all wet!! Please put parentheses and brackets around my username and suggest ways that I may dry myself (note that I have no shower, clothes dryer, towels, spare blankets, paper towels, tissues, newspapers, rugs, etc.). Thanks guys!!

Bricker

01-01-2009, 06:39 PM

What evidence do you have that his troubles are largely due to bad decisions as opposed to the economic downturn? IOW, please cite a single bad decision the OP has revealed to us that he's made.

I don't know about the OP, but I believe that the lack of resourcefulness exhibited by Broomstick with respect to finding want ads is fairly characterized as a poor choice or poor effort. We've learned from Sateryn76 that there are multiple pages of want ads in the local paper Broomstick is using. For Broomstick to throw up hands and say, "there are NO, repeat NO" want ads is a pretty good indication of either a tendency to exaggerate to the point of lying, or of a complete inability to bring ordinary adult skills to a relatively simple task -- in either case, frankly, not qualities I'd seek as an employer.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 06:40 PM

So I'm not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn't gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer.

Hey, moron, guess what? Not everyone who wants to go to college actually can. Not everyone wants to go to college, anyway. Not everyone is capable of making it through college, even if neither of the above apply. You did. So, did I. But, that doesn't give either of us the right to look down on those who didn't.

Besides having a fancy college degree is NOT a guarantee against becoming unemployed. Sorry.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:44 PM

Hey, moron, guess what? Not everyone who wants to go to college actually can. Not everyone wants to go to college, anyway. Not everyone is capable of making it through college, even if neither of the above apply. You did. So, did I. But, that doesn't give either of us the right to look down on those who didn't.

Besides having a fancy college degree is NOT a guarantee against becoming unemployed. Sorry.

Not sure how any of that is relevant. I'm just saying that the OP failed to do anything to be able to get jobs as other than an unskilled laborer. You've conveniently ignored by response to your post on this above.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 06:46 PM

He hasn't been to college. He has no ability to get work other than as an unsilled laborer.

So, each and every person who wants to get a degree in a field in high demand can get it? Regardless of his circumstances, regardless of his capacities?

Also, did you miss the part where the OP wants to go to college but can't due to the circumstances?

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 06:47 PM

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 06:48 PM

Unskilled laborers need food and shelter too, you know.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 06:50 PM

He hasn't been to college. He has no ability to get work other than as an unsilled laborer.
It occurs to me that we have no way of knowing what the OP's age is based on this thread... if he's 30 and never went to college that's quite different than if he is, say 19 or 20. Would you expect a 20 year old to have a college degree completed?

I'll never find myself in the position of not being able to find a job. You know why? I've worked my ass off since I learned to walk and I have developed skills and experience that are in high demand. So I'm not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn't gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer.

You can wish for the same thing as the OP to happen to me all you want but it won't because I've made it impossible. I may at some point have to take a job that pays less than my current job (or less than I'm making at that point), but I won't be on the streets.
It is never impossible to lose employment. Don't fool yourself. Shit can happen over which you have no control.

As I pointed out, there is nothing to indicate the OP's age in this thread. I have no idea if we're talking about someone 20 or 40 or 60 years old.

I, too, have "worked my ass" off, I have a college degree, I made contingency plans, and yet here I am. Yes, I am working "unskilled labor" and you know what? I was chosen over younger people with less experience in working. Should I call someone 20 years old who asked for the same job I now have a "loser" because I won the spot and they didn't?

I HAVE taken a lower paying job. Despite that, I may yet find myself on the street.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 06:51 PM

I'm just saying that the OP failed to do anything to be able to get jobs as other than an unskilled laborer. You've conveniently ignored by response to your post on this above.

And you've conveniently ignored the point that you don't know enough about the OP's circumstances to be able state with any certainty that he's in this boat due to his own poor decisions. He may well be, but with no evidence either way, you're just ass/u/me-ing.

FoieGrasIsEvil

01-01-2009, 06:52 PM

He hasn't been to college. He has no ability to get work other than as an unsilled laborer.

Your Mom goes to college.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:53 PM

So, each and every person who wants to get a degree in a field in high demand can get it? Regardless of his circumstances, regardless of his capacities?

Also, did you miss the part where the OP wants to go to college but can't due to the circumstances?

Yeesh. These responses are like the thyroid people in the fat threads (i.e., there's a small group of people that have every possible obstacle in their way so that gives everyone else a free pass because they could have had one or more of those same obstacles in their way).

Also, to reiterate, I never castigated the OP for not going to college. I castigated the OP for not doing anything to better himself (college being just one example).

Finally, as a French person, you are probably constitutionally incapable of understanding concepts such as personal responsibility and all that, so you get a pass.

Aspidistra

01-01-2009, 06:55 PM

We've learned from Sateryn76 that there are multiple pages of want ads in the local paper Broomstick is using.

No we didn't. Unless I missed something, Sateryn did not say he was looking at the same paper Broomstick was using. He just said it was a local paper somewhere in NW Indiana. It may or may not be anywhere near where Broomstick actually lives - unless Sateryn has some extra knowledge of Broomstick's actual address which he hasn't brought to the thread.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 06:55 PM

And you've conveniently ignored the point that you don't know enough about the OP's circumstances to be able state with any certainty that he's in this boat due to his own poor decisions. He may well be, but with no evidence either way, you're just ass/u/me-ing.

Wait, so you are saying it is possible for someone who can only get work in unskilled labor to have arrived at that position through a series of good decisions? I would agree with this only in extremely narrow circumstances. For example, if the OP were physically abused as a child in a third-world country but now he has come to America to work, then he's alright with me.

The Tao's Revenge

01-01-2009, 06:56 PM

Not sure how any of that is relevant. I'm just saying that the OP failed to do anything to be able to get jobs as other than an unskilled laborer. You've conveniently ignored by response to your post on this above.

Ahh do you know why he "failed"? Maybe he's been stuck in a bad life situation.

Also you fucking douche bag he's trying to go college to fix that. How the hell is he supposed to go to college when he can't even get enough money for food and rent?

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 06:56 PM

I don't know about the OP, but I believe that the lack of resourcefulness exhibited by Broomstick with respect to finding want ads is fairly characterized as a poor choice or poor effort. We've learned from Sateryn76 that there are multiple pages of want ads in the local paper Broomstick is using. For Broomstick to throw up hands and say, "there are NO, repeat NO" want ads is a pretty good indication of either a tendency to exaggerate to the point of lying, or of a complete inability to bring ordinary adult skills to a relatively simple task -- in either case, frankly, not qualities I'd seek as an employer.
First of all, the only link provided that goes directly to the want ads lists SEVEN, which is hardly "pages and pages" - who's exaggerating now?

Second - there appears to be a difference between the hardcopy papers and the paper's website. Silly me - I've been looking in the hardcopy for the want ads! Nevermind I never saw anything that said "sorry - we've moved all our want ads to the internet. If you don't know that, or don't have an internet connection, you're fucked! Ha-ha!"

Fine, call me a liar, say it's all my fault, it's still the party line that the poor are poor because they choose to be poor and deserve to suffer. I've been hearing it for decades, and even more since I was laid off because management decided to eliminate wholesale an entire job category and not because of a conduct problem. That couldn't possibly happen to any of the privileged characters who enjoy pissing on people going through a hard time. After all, if it's not the poor peoples' fault then - OMG! - you might one day have bad luck yourself!

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 06:57 PM

I castigated the OP for not doing anything to better himself (college being just one example).

You do not know what the OP has or has not done, or why.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 07:00 PM

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:01 PM

Ahh do you know why he "failed"? Maybe he's been stuck in a bad life situation.

Also you fucking douche bag he's trying to go college to fix that. How the hell is he supposed to go to college when he can't even get enough money for food and rent?

Le sigh. Yes, you can come up with possible scenarios why the OP is a saint who has had the very bowels of life open up goatse-like upon him since day one. But that's not very likely. You can also think of ways that he can't do things to better himself. However, I find it much more productive for people to take responsibility over what they've done and what they need to do.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:01 PM

Wait, so you are saying it is possible for someone who can only get work in unskilled labor to have arrived at that position through a series of good decisions?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's also possible to end up with a great career despite having made a whole shitload of bad decisions. Life's funny that way.

FarmerChick

01-01-2009, 07:02 PM

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:02 PM

You do not know what the OP has or has not done, or why.

But I know where he is (in loserville) and his attitude about it (it's not his fault).

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:03 PM

However, I find it much more productive for people to take responsibility over what they've done and what they need to do.

Once again, you conveniently ignore the point that he's trying to go to college. Or maybe you just have the attention span of a retarded gnat.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 07:03 PM

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Wow. Are you drunk or just a tool?

I vote drunken tool.

But then, I'm a little cynical these days.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's also possible to end up with a great career despite having made a whole shitload of bad decisions. Life's funny that way.

Possible in both instances, but not very likely. Will you acknowledge that?

For instance, if someone says "Each and every day I eat 4 calories and work out for three hours, but I still can't lose weight," do you think that it's more likely that this person is lying or that they are one of the very few people with an actual medical problem that could cause that to be the case?

Sateryn76

01-01-2009, 07:05 PM

No we didn't. Unless I missed something, Sateryn did not say he was looking at the same paper Broomstick was using. He just said it was a local paper somewhere in NW Indiana. It may or may not be anywhere near where Broomstick actually lives - unless Sateryn has some extra knowledge of Broomstick's actual address which he hasn't brought to the thread.

Broomstick and I both live in Northwest Indiana. There are only two major papers in this area - The Hammond Times and the Gary Post-Tribune. There are a handful of local town papers, but they are not much more than ads and pictures of the Rotary Club.

I obviously can't scan and post the actual classifieds for our local papers, but their jobs sections are quite large. I linked to their websites - unfortunately, because of an attempt to control costs, they are both hooked up with larger web companies. The Post-Tribune is with the Chicago Sun Times, and the Times has now apparently joined the Yahoo jobs site.

The Times jobs I linked to are for one town in the area - Munster. You can search by zip code for others. I tried Gary as well, and there were two pages worth of jobs.

The Post-Tribune has always had a crappy website, but I note that they have seven "new" jobs posted, and it is my understanding those run by the day. So, today, seven new jobs were added to their job database.

As I said, the actual classified job section is big, and even bigger on "employment" day, which I believe is Wednesday.

Broomstick has had a crappy run of luck, and I appreciate her position. However, I am always wondering about those who say "There are no jobs" and it turns out there are many jobs, just not ones that they want or like. I was not taught that jobs need to conform to my wants and needs, but that I must change to meet the limits of the job.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:05 PM

Wow. Are you drunk or just a tool?

Are you really a farmer? Usually those types of folks are big on personal responsibility and bootstraps and whatnot.

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 07:06 PM

You do not know what the OP has or has not done, or why.He knows that the OP has posted a Pit thread, and that the OP has posited a causal relationship between the current state of the economy and the fiscal fix he finds himself in today.

I agree, its a very thin nail upon which to hang an argument that the OP is a slacking-off fuckup who doesn't merit any moral support from the rest of us.

But you surely didn't think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you?

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:07 PM

Sateryn actually did give the paper editions he was looking at which, although near my location are not precisely my location. That, too, might also account for why the paper copy I picked up did not have want ads and his did, as they might have been targeted towards a particular edition of the paper for some reason. I hadn't though of that, frankly it did not occur to me that with locations grouped fairly close together that that might happen but perhaps it is. I will have to investigate this more thoroughly. I am willing to travel 40 or 50 miles for a job with a paycheck I can live on but some employers may be assuming otherwise and thus not listing as widely as I might have thought they would.

Hey Broomstick, how far north of Chicago would 40 or 50 miles from your house put you?

Green Cymbeline

01-01-2009, 07:08 PM

I'll never find myself in the position of not being able to find a job. You know why? I've worked my ass off since I learned to walk and I have developed skills and experience that are in high demand. So I'm not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn't gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer.

You can wish for the same thing as the OP to happen to me all you want but it won't because I've made it impossible. I may at some point have to take a job that pays less than my current job (or less than I'm making at that point), but I won't be on the streets.What indispensable skills do you have that ensure you will NEVER go without a job? Garbage man? I mean, I can't think of much else that will ALWAYS and FOREVER be in high demand. There always has to be someone to clean up everyone else's crap, right?

Seriously though. Famous last words, buddy. Never say never, blah blah, etc.

You are a cocky judgmental jerk - what you're basically saying is that anyone who cannot find a job must be a lazy loser, because after all if they "worked their ass off" like you, or "gone to college" like you, they would NEVER be unemployed, right? Bullshit. That is seriously insulting to all the bright, experienced, talented, educated people out there who lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are having trouble finding work. I hope some of them come in here and call you out on your bullshit.

And p.s., Mr. Awesome, the whole point of the OP is that he IS trying to gain the skills and education to become indispensable like you - he is about to start higher education - but how the hell is he supposed to pay for it and support himself if he can't find a motherfucking job?? Go back and read the OP, it says he is "go back to (community) college and get an education, and to improve my station in life." So exactly how is anyone supposed to do that if they can't find work?!!!

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:09 PM

For instance, if someone says "Each and every day I eat 4 calories and work out for three hours, but I still can't lose weight," do you think that it's more likely that this person is lying or that they are one of the very few people with an actual medical problem that could cause that to be the case?

No, because this claim is actually, physically impossible. That the OP is in a bad spot despite some good decisions is not (and please, don't pretend that all the decisions you ever made have been good ones. No one makes all the right decisions.)

And, actually, I do consider it somewhat likely, at worst, not all that unlikely.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 07:10 PM

First of all, the only link provided that goes directly to the want ads lists SEVEN, which is hardly "pages and pages" - who's exaggerating now?

Yes, the only link that goes DIRECTLY to the want ads lists seven. And the other link -- the one that you have to do a few more things, like specify a search area -- has more than seven.

But why do you feel this discussion should limit itself to the only link that goes directly to the want ads? If you're serious about looking hard, leaving no stone unturned, I have to say that clicking an extra link or two isn't all that onerous a prospect. And in any event, my criticism was your "NO, repeat NO" want ads for "weeks and weeks" claim. You still stand by that one, do you?

Second - there appears to be a difference between the hardcopy papers and the paper's website. Silly me - I've been looking in the hardcopy for the want ads! Nevermind I never saw anything that said "sorry - we've moved all our want ads to the internet. If you don't know that, or don't have an internet connection, you're fucked! Ha-ha!"

Yeah, except that I can bring my Monk-like powers of deductive reasoning to the fore and conclude that you in fact have an internet connection. So I'm not inclined to commiserate with you over the need for an internet connection.

Fine, call me a liar, say it's all my fault, it's still the party line that the poor are poor because they choose to be poor and deserve to suffer. I've been hearing it for decades, and even more since I was laid off because management decided to eliminate wholesale an entire job category and not because of a conduct problem. That couldn't possibly happen to any of the privileged characters who enjoy pissing on people going through a hard time. After all, if it's not the poor peoples' fault then - OMG! - you might one day have bad luck yourself!
[/quote]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that all poor are poor because they choose to be poor. I said YOU, specifically, don't strike me as someone who is really looking with every fiber of your being, since you couldn't find a single want ad.

In fact, I feel quite sorry for those who are really victims of circumstance, because you're trying to ride on their coattails, when your problem is lack of competence or lack of desire.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:11 PM

He knows that the OP has posted a Pit thread, and that the OP has posited a causal relationship between the current state of the economy and the fiscal fix he finds himself in today.

I agree, its a very thin nail upon which to hang an argument that the OP is a slacking-off fuckup who doesn't merit any moral support from the rest of us.

But you surely didn't think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you?

Thanks for the support (that was support, right? ;) ).

Also, everyone, I'm still soaking wet over here (not sure how I got this way either), so I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for getting out of this unfortunate situation.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:12 PM

But you surely didn't think his handle is a random string of characters that just happens to be pronounceable as two discrete words, do you?

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven't given any thought at all to his username one way or the other.

I just think he's a douchebag.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:12 PM

You are a cocky judgmental jerk

Flattery will get you everywhere. ;)

Also, to respond to you edit-- STOOOODENT LOOOOAAAANS people!

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:13 PM

Also, everyone, I'm still soaking wet over here (not sure how I got this way either), so I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for getting out of this unfortunate situation.

I hear vacuum drying is very effective.

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 07:13 PM

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's also possible to end up with a great career despite having made a whole shitload of bad decisions. Life's funny that way.Sure is. I dropped out of college in 1979, left the Navy after only eleven years (no pension for that), lost three (frankly just south of adequate) jobs, worked three other way south of adequate jobs, and spent three years unemployed in the seventeen years since, and six years after I completed my application, got a career-level craft position in the Postal Service.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:14 PM

Also, to respond to you edit-- STOOOODENT LOOOOAAAANS people!

Not everyone can qualify for those.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 07:15 PM

Also, to reiterate, I never castigated the OP for not going to college. I castigated the OP for not doing anything to better himself (college being just one example).

You don't know anything about the OP's history, and yet you feel free to assume that his situation is caused by his own failings.

And the only example you give is contradicted by the very content of the OP.

Finally, as a French person, you are probably constitutionally incapable of understanding concepts such as personal responsibility and all that, so you get a pass.

Indeed. I'm constitutionally allowed to be eating foie gras and drinking champagne between two posts despite a boatload of poor decisions in my life. There's no constitutional provisions preventing me from understanding that some people can be eating noodles despite a boatload of good decisions, though.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:16 PM

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven't given any thought at all to his username one way or the other.

I just think he's a douchebag.

OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn't know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won't say it . . . :p

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 07:16 PM

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean; I haven't given any thought at all to his username one way or the other.Look up Ayn.

dre2xl

01-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Yeesh. These responses are like the thyroid people in the fat threads (i.e., there's a small group of people that have every possible obstacle in their way so that gives everyone else a free pass because they could have had one or more of those same obstacles in their way).

Look, I'm a heartless capitalist bitch, but I'm not blind to the fact that criticism of the victim is often a way of reassuring himself or herself that the misfortune can never happen to himself or herself. That's what a lot of this thread has been about; you aren't criticizing lazy unskilled workers or fat people; you're reassuring yourself that you'll never land in poverty or become fat, at the expense of others.

OP is perhaps not exercising full creativity in job seeking, but unemployment can happen to anyone, period. Very, very few people have the priorities and education and self-discipline to be able to plan for and survive unemployment, and by the fearful tone in your posts, I'd wager that you aren't one of them.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:17 PM

Not everyone can qualify for those.

You got a cite for that? I'm pretty sure that every swingin' dick (or whatever) can get some form of loan to go to school.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:18 PM

I hear vacuum drying is very effective.

My vacuum don't suck, but it needs a new hose. I blame Bush.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 07:19 PM

OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn't know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won't say it . . . :p

If this is serious criticism, I feel it's misplaced. If your name werre "John Galt" or "Dagny Taggert" or "A. Rand" then I think it's fair to say a well-read person should twig immediately to the reference. But "Rand Rover" doesn't immediately bring Ayn Rand to mind.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 07:20 PM

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's also possible to end up with a great career despite having made a whole shitload of bad decisions. Life's funny that way.

Would you mind responding a little slower? That's the third time in this thread you're posting my arguments before I've the time to type them.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:21 PM

OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn't know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won't say it . . . :p

In fact, I did (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rand+rover&btnG=Search). Strangely, no mention of Ayn.

While I'm familiar with the name Ayn Rand, I'm not at all a fan. You'll forgive me, therefore, if I still have no idea what your username is supposed to do with the subject at hand.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 07:22 PM

OP is perhaps not exercising full creativity in job seeking, but unemployment can happen to anyone, period. Very, very few people have the priorities and education and self-discipline to be able to plan for and survive unemployment, and by the fearful tone in your posts, I'd wager that you aren't one of them.

I can't speak for Rand Rover, but I would note that my criticism is not leveled at the OP; the OP doesn't give enough information to reach any conclusions about his job search.

Broomstick, in contrast, made a ludicrous, obviously false claim. Instead of admitting it when called on it, Bromstick now attempts to defend the indefensible.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:22 PM

But "Rand Rover" doesn't immediately bring Ayn Rand to mind.

Indeed. If pressed,. I would likely have guessed it was meant to be Chinglish for "Land Rover."

clairobscur: sorry!

Blalron

01-01-2009, 07:23 PM

If the OP's position were just "my life sucks right now," then I wouldn't have posted in this thread. Intead, he's blaming the economy instead of his bad decisions and then complaining he's got to do some hard work.

It is true that I could have been more ambitious in the past. I don't deny this. However, I don't have a time machine. This move is my plan to make things better, "pull myself up by own bootstraps" (though I don't own boots, I am blessed enough to have friends willing to lend me a pair. :eek:)

I am doing what I need to do, I'm filling out applications and handing out copies of my resume. I'm just very very stressed out and needed to vent. This thread is partially to vent and partially to get some good advice.

I'll probably be able to keep some means of vision since I have an ancient pair of glasses, but what would you recommend to a completely destitute person who needed glasses so as not to stumble around like a blind man? If anyone has any advice on this I'd be glad to hear it.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:24 PM

Look, I'm a heartless capitalist bitch, but I'm not blind to the fact that criticism of the victim is often a way of reassuring himself or herself that the misfortune can never happen to himself or herself. That's what a lot of this thread has been about; you aren't criticizing lazy unskilled workers or fat people; you're reassuring yourself that you'll never land in poverty or become fat, at the expense of others.

Ha, OK. And maybe your post is really a veiled reassurance of yourself that you can be a capitalist and a nice person (by pointing out that I am not being a nice person). Or something. In any event, I need no reassurance that I'll never be in poverty because I would take any job to put food on my family (<--my favorite Bushism).

OP is perhaps not exercising full creativity in job seeking, but unemployment can happen to anyone, period. Very, very few people have the priorities and education and self-discipline to be able to plan for and survive unemployment, and by the fearful tone in your posts, I'd wager that you aren't one of them.

Bring it, unemployment, I'll make you my bitch.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 07:26 PM

Are you really a farmer? Usually those types of folks are big on personal responsibility and bootstraps and whatnot.

You might be big on individual responsibility, but there obviously are some realities of life outside of your personal experience that you completely missed.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:26 PM

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 07:26 PM

I hear vacuum drying is very effective.Good point.

Airlock is this way...

FarmerChick

01-01-2009, 07:27 PM

Are you really a farmer? Usually those types of folks are big on personal responsibility and bootstraps and whatnot.

Yes I am, but I don't judge people nor do I kick them when they're down or call insult them just because of who they are or what they do.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:28 PM

It is true that I could have been more ambitious in the past. I don't deny this. However, I don't have a time machine. This move is my plan to make things better, "pull myself up by own bootstraps" (though I don't own boots, I am blessed enough to have friends willing to lend me a pair. :eek:)

I am doing what I need to do, I'm filling out applications and handing out copies of my resume. I'm just very very stressed out and needed to vent. This thread is partially to vent and partially to get some good advice.

I'll probably be able to keep some means of vision since I have an ancient pair of glasses, but what would you recommend to a completely destitute person who needed glasses so as not to stumble around like a blind man? If anyone has any advice on this I'd be glad to hear it.

Alright man, good luck. Like I said in my first post, please don't go down the dark path paved by Broomstick and Acid Lamp. Keep pounding the pavement and go to school and you can be a cocky jerkface to some guy in a thread llike this in 10 years.

Blalron

01-01-2009, 07:29 PM

Is the problem with the old glasses simply that they're scratched up, or is the prescription out of date and inadequate? If the former, I'd take them to an optometrist and see if he can polish them out for a nominal fee.

Out of date, inadequate. They are better than nothing, but pretty crappy nonetheless.

My contact lenses are in date as long as they hold out.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:29 PM

Yes I am, but I don't judge people nor do I kick them when they're down or call insult them just because of who they are or what they do.

Yeah I don't either, and haven't in this thread.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 07:29 PM

Are there other papers in NW Indiana besides the Times and the Post-Tribune? I mean, given the size of the area that could be called "NW Indiana" I don't see how anyone who is supposedly turning over every stone in search of a job could FAIL to search those papers. Can you explain to me how a good faith, leave-no-stone-unturned job search for a person living in northwest Indiana could justify excluding either paper?
I haven't excluded either paper, but those papers both publish hardcopy editions specific to towns or small groupings of townships. I assumed that all want ads would be printed in all editions but perhaps not. If so, having to run around buying 5 or 6 different hardcopies of the same paper would be a pain in the ass at best.

I most certainly was standing in line at the unemployment office with a group of others going "WTF? Where are the want ads?" in an edition of the Times. I don't recall which particular town's edition of that paper we were looking at because, again, I assumed there would be the ads for the entire region.

Do I personally purchase a hardcopy of both papers (and the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times) every day? No. Because I can't afford to do that. I'm pretty much living on $5 of food a day, and I have to eat. I do look at them at the library. I go to the websites of local companies (as well as non-local) to apply. I use the websites at the unemployment offices of both Indiana and Illinois. I go in person (although most businesses now tell me I can only apply on the internet). Perhaps it staggers the imagination, but I really can't afford to spend $4 a day every day on newspapers. That would be $120 a month. Or about what we spend on food for one of us here in the Broomstick household. I did mention that I was poor, didn't I? That's what poverty means - you're reading newspapers at the library, or handed to you by others while standing in line somewhere, or even on occassion picked out of the garbage.

I could, I supposed, get a subscription to all those papers and at one point I did try that, but my unemployed neighbors kept stealing them. When it got to the point that at 4am I'm out in front of the house telling the delivery person that I am the one with the subscription while a neighbor was trying to snatch it out of my hands I said fuck it, I'm losing sleep, only getting this thing 1/3 of the time (if that much), and it's less effort to go to the fucking library to read this. Except, of course, when some asshole rips the want ads out of the newspaper at the library. This is yet another sucky thing about being poor and living in an apartment building in an area with an unemployment problem. Maybe I could try the subscription thing again, as that neighbor has since been evicted and last I saw him he was apparently living under an I-65 overpass. Gee, maybe he was having trouble affording newspapers, too. That doesn't make his theft OK, but at least it wasn't entirely out of malice.

So yeah, I tend to concentrate a bit more on the internet and directly going to company websites. So fucking sue me. That doesn't mean I haven't been trying to find a job.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:31 PM

In fact, I did (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rand+rover&btnG=Search). Strangely, no mention of Ayn.

While I'm familiar with the name Ayn Rand, I'm not at all a fan. You'll forgive me, therefore, if I still have no idea what your username is supposed to do with the subject at hand.

OK, understood, I retract my mock indignation.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 07:32 PM

Well who the hell else's fault is it? Winston Churchill's? Barack Obama's? Sigmund Freud's?

I'll never find myself in the position of not being able to find a job. You know why? I've worked my ass off since I learned to walk and I have developed skills and experience that are in high demand. So I'm not going to pat some loser on the head when he hasn't gone to college and complains about not being able to find work as an unskilled laborer.

You can wish for the same thing as the OP to happen to me all you want but it won't because I've made it impossible. I may at some point have to take a job that pays less than my current job (or less than I'm making at that point), but I won't be on the streets. This has got to be the most unintentionally hilarious post I can recall ever reading on the Straight Dope, ever.

dre2xl

01-01-2009, 07:33 PM

I can't speak for Rand Rover, but I would note that my criticism is not leveled at the OP; the OP doesn't give enough information to reach any conclusions about his job search.

Broomstick, in contrast, made a ludicrous, obviously false claim. Instead of admitting it when called on it, Bromstick now attempts to defend the indefensible.

Ah, I confused Broomstick with the OP. Either way, a justified bust of Broomstick does not explain Rand Rover's pissing on the OP, or the declaration that he will never be unemployable, or his implied statement that he'll never be fat. His motivation is clearly fear and denial--not offering constructive criticism.

One would think this type of bashing would decrease during hard economic times as others start seeing what could become a reality, but it instead seems to increase.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:35 PM

His motivation is clearly fear and denial--not offering constructive criticism.
Look, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 07:35 PM

Hey Broomstick, how far north of Chicago would 40 or 50 miles from your house put you?
Chicago Loop. I live SOUTH of Chicago. Actually going north of Chicago is considerably farther than 50 miles.

I worked in the Chicago Loop between 1983 and 2007 at a total of 4 different companies. As I said, I am more than willing to travel that distance. I am still applying for jobs in that location. I have not yet been hired despite a couple interviews.

I am also applying to positions in Michigan City and even South Bend Indiana.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 07:38 PM

What indispensable skills do you have that ensure you will NEVER go without a job? Garbage man? I mean, I can't think of much else that will ALWAYS and FOREVER be in high demand. There always has to be someone to clean up everyone else's crap, right?
Personally, I would have guessed "undertaker" and the never-out-of-employment job, but hey, garbage man works too.

That is seriously insulting to all the bright, experienced, talented, educated people out there who lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are having trouble finding work. I hope some of them come in here and call you out on your bullshit.
Well, I'm trying but it's like yelling at a brick wall.

Frank

01-01-2009, 07:41 PM

Shayna

01-01-2009, 07:41 PM

I'll probably be able to keep some means of vision since I have an ancient pair of glasses, but what would you recommend to a completely destitute person who needed glasses so as not to stumble around like a blind man? If anyone has any advice on this I'd be glad to hear it. Try these guys: http://www.neweyesfortheneedy.org/ Last year, New Eyes for the Needy provided new prescription eyeglasses to 5,945 people in the United States. These individuals live in all parts of the country. They are children, the elderly, and the working poor who are desperately trying to make ends meet. How to contact them: http://www.neweyesfortheneedy.org/us/apply.html

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:42 PM

Personally, I would have guessed "undertaker" and the never-out-of-employment job, but hey, garbage man works too.

I'm a professional messageboard idiot down-smacker. Work is BOOMING!

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:44 PM

Yeah I don't either, and haven't in this thread.

You don't judge people? What, pray tell, do you call it when you accuse the OP of making poor life decisions and tell him all his troubles are his own damned fault?

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:45 PM

I'm a professional messageboard idiot down-smacker.

Oh. Well. Is this the best you can do? You're not very good at it, you know.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:47 PM

You don't judge people? What, pray tell, do you call it when you accuse the OP of making poor life decisions and tell him all his troubles are his own damned fault?

To me "judging" someone means to think they are a "bad person." I don't think the OP is a bad person for making poor life decisions. I just think he's unworthy of blaming his problems on the economy.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:48 PM

Oh. Well. Is this the best you can do? You're not very good at it, you know.

You just lack the ability to appreciate my genius.

Also, have you googled up anything on student loan qualification per my post above, google-boy?

Shayna

01-01-2009, 07:50 PM

To me "judging" someone means to think they are a "bad person." I don't think the OP is a bad person for making poor life decisions. I just think he's unworthy of blaming his problems on the economy. You're not just rude, hateful and arrogant, you're fucking stupid and a liar, too. I'll bet your mom is really proud of you. Please, I beg you, don't procreate.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:51 PM

This has got to be the most unintentionally hilarious post I can recall ever reading on the Straight Dope, ever.

Yeah, I can be too direct and corny about issues like this sometimes. I blame it on reading too much Heinlein.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 07:52 PM

I just think he's unworthy of blaming his problems on the economy.

That's the very definition of judging someone!

Plus, you haven't convincingly demonstrated to me that he is in this position due to poor decision-making skills.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:52 PM

You're not just rude, hateful and arrogant, you're fucking stupid and a liar, too. I'll bet your mom is really proud of you. Please, I beg you, don't procreate.

How exactly am I a liar?

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 07:53 PM

That's the very definition of judging someone!

What? No.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:01 PM

Alright man, good luck. Like I said in my first post, please don't go down the dark path paved by Broomstick and Acid Lamp.
Oh, right, because a year of unemployment completely negates 25 years of having a good wage and providing for a family. :rolleyes: Yes, I went to college, earned a very nice paycheck, avoided debt, put money away for bad times... but sometimes the shit keeps coming for awhile.

And who the hell is this "Acid Lamp" you keep referring to? I can't seem to find a poster by that name in this thread. Maybe I need new glasses, too.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 08:04 PM

Also, have you googled up anything on student loan qualification per my post above, google-boy?

I missed said post. My bad. But, since you asked so nicely, here you go (http://www.cnbc.com/id/26841228):

It’s now virtually impossible for students to get loans without a cosigner, says Christopher Penn, chief technical officer at the Student Loan Network, a student loan and information Web site. What’s more, credit score requirements have increased.

In previous years, he says a credit score -- also known as a FICO score -- in the low 600s was enough to get a private student loan; now lenders are looking for a score in the low 700s.

The tighter requirements may exclude up to 20% of borrowers who were previously eligible, says Penn.

That covers private student loans. On the federal (http://ezinearticles.com/?Do-You-Qualify-For-a-Student-Loan?&id=258526) side:

A Federal Unsubsidized Loan is a student loan based on no-need. Every student who meets the eligibility requirements could meet the criteria for Federal Direct Unsubsidized Loans. There is no need for a co-signer to apply for Federal Direct Unsubsidized loans.

A Federal Subsidized Loan is made directly to the student. A person can apply for this financial by filling out and submitting a Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA form). Fundamental criteria must be met, which is determined by people of the federal government.

The bolded (by me) phrases indicate that, logically, not everyone will qualify--else, why the need for eligibility requirements?

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:05 PM

I'll probably be able to keep some means of vision since I have an ancient pair of glasses, but what would you recommend to a completely destitute person who needed glasses so as not to stumble around like a blind man? If anyone has any advice on this I'd be glad to hear it.You could maybe try these (http://www.neweyesfortheneedy.org/users/individuals.html) people.
Hey, thanks - great link. I've been wracking my brains trying to figure out how to get new glasses for my husband. We can swing the eye exam (the Medicaid policy he has pays for exams for diabetics... but not new glasses. :rolleyes: ) I'll have to see if we qualify.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:07 PM

Personally, I would have guessed "undertaker" as the never-out-of-employment job, but hey, garbage man works too.I'm a professional messageboard idiot down-smacker. Work is BOOMING!
Actually, I'm serious about that - undertaking kept my father's family fed during the Great Depression and paid for him and his brother to go to college. People die all the time, and in bad times they die more often. Somebody has to bury them (or otherwise take care of the remains). It may not be the oldest profession, but it's in the running to be the last one standing.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 08:08 PM

What? No.

What color is the sky in your world? In what way, shape or form is the quoted part of your post not:
1. To form an opinion or evaluation. (http://www.answers.com/judging)

??

FarmerChick

01-01-2009, 08:11 PM

Yeah I don't either, and haven't in this thread.

Ok, now I know you are just being dense. You are way too fucking stupid for me. Enjoy you're little game, dude I'm done with you.

jayjay

01-01-2009, 08:13 PM

Seriously, what do you folks expect from a randroid like Rand Rover and a dead-end neanderthal like Carol Stream?

Bricker

01-01-2009, 08:14 PM

I most certainly was standing in line at the unemployment office with a group of others going "WTF? Where are the want ads?" in an edition of the Times. I don't recall which particular town's edition of that paper we were looking at because, again, I assumed there would be the ads for the entire region.

That was one day. But you said: There are NO, repeat NO want ads in the local papers, not even for crap jobs. It's been like that for weeks.

Now, let's say for the sake of argument I credit your experience at the unemployment office -- and for what it's worth, I do; the unemployment office is the MOST likely place people will steal all copies of the want ads from a newspaper stand. But that's one day. Where you lost me was the "It's been like that for weeks."

C'mon -- for weeks, every single place you looked, there were NO, repeat NO, want ads?

That's garbage.

That's what poverty means - you're reading newspapers at the library, or handed to you by others while standing in line somewhere, or even on occassion picked out of the garbage.

Been there, done that. My father was an immigrant from El Salvador, arriving here with the classic "shirt on his back." My early family experience was NOT wealthy, trust me.

FarmerChick

01-01-2009, 08:15 PM

You just lack the ability to appreciate my genius.

Also, have you googled up anything on student loan qualification per my post above, google-boy?

I'm smelling something off here....

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Seriously, what do you folks expect from a randroid like Rand Rover and a dead-end neanderthal like Carol Stream?

Didn't you ever have one of those punching dolls (http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php/site/articles/bozo_the_clown_bop_bag/) when you were little? It's like that. They'll never stay down, but it's fun to keep hitting them.

Blalron

01-01-2009, 08:20 PM

You just lack the ability to appreciate my genius.

Also, have you googled up anything on student loan qualification per my post above, google-boy?

I had problems with FAFSA before because they needed to know my parents income. My dad, who I'm not on good terms with, absolutely refused to give me his information no matter how much I pleaded for it. You can only file independently of your parents at the age of 24. That's how old I am now.

I had shitty grades in High School so Scholarships weren't really something I could get either. I didn't want to take out student loans because I didn't want to suffer my mothers fate (she's $50,000 in debt).

I probably haven't done everything I could to get back into school. I took one semester. Fall of 2003. I goofed off and ended up with all "D"s... I was more immature then and treated it like I did High School. Except unlike High School college isn't free. My circle of friends had a similar attitude towards it, but they had Trust Funds to fund their educations and were able to get back on the wagon and they now all have their degrees.

I just got severely discouraged and kind of gave up. Maybe I was an idiot, Rand Rover. Between then and now I've worked grocery and fast food. Nothing that particularly required any brain power or specialized skills. Just stocking shelves, taking customers orders at the register, flipping burgers and making sandwiches, minimum wage stuff.

I don't want to dwell too much on the past... the past is beyond my control. I can only affect the present and future, so that's what I'm interested in.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 08:21 PM

Ah, I confused Broomstick with the OP. Either way, a justified bust of Broomstick does not explain Rand Rover's pissing on the OP, or the declaration that he will never be unemployable, or his implied statement that he'll never be fat. His motivation is clearly fear and denial--not offering constructive criticism.

I think Rand Rover is out of line here, I agree. I'm not going to speculate on his motivation, but I'll say this about his thesis: I've been dirt poor and moderately well-off. I have a number of different skills, and I believe I could get a job in a wide variety of areas. But there are no guarantees -- I watch my mom struggle with macular degeneration, for instance, and I realize that if I suffered an accident that left me blind, it would be a long time before my vaunted skills and abilities could get me gainful employment, because they all depend on being able to SEE. Sure, I could learn work-arounds, but how attractive a job candidate would I be?

So no, I am all too aware that the Angel of Unemployment is hovering about like "...a roaring lion, seeking whom he might devour."

Which makes me all the more irked at the over-the-top claims Broomstick made. Times are tough, and there's enough real obstacles to discuss without either fabricating or admitting that you're too unimaginative to figure out how it is that weeks and weeks of papers have no want ads at all.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 08:23 PM

Try these guys: http://www.neweyesfortheneedy.org/ How to contact them: http://www.neweyesfortheneedy.org/us/apply.html And if you don't have any luck with the New Eyes for the Needy folks, contact the Oregon Lions Sight & Hearing Foundation. Although they appear to primarily offer recycled prescription glasses to groups for mass distribution, they do say they provide assistance to people in Oregon, and if they can't help you directly, they probably have a list of referral organizations.

http://www.lionsclubs.org/EN/content/vision_eyeglass_oregon.shtml

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:23 PM

C'mon -- for weeks, every single place you looked, there were NO, repeat NO, want ads?
Uh.. yeah. There hasn't been any odd job construction things for me to do the last couple weeks of December (last day I worked was the 19th) and I've spent the better part of two weeks trying to get the Federal unemployment extension that I was told in a nice formal letter I qualified for. The fact my past year's work history extends to two states is apparently causing some trouble and confusion, along the fact that Lake County closed one of it's two "full service" unemployment offices resulting in extreme overcrowding and backlogs at the remaining office. It's been particularly bad of late. I didn't intend for it to take so long, but at least give me credit for continuing to look for something while standing in a three block long line at 8 am freezing my ass off. While at the unemployment office I clearly wasn't on MY computer or the library's and while they have some there at the UO they were restricting them to those entering claims and not permitting their use for job searches due to the aforementioned overcrowding.

monstro

01-01-2009, 08:25 PM

Don't ever post a thread complaining about the trials of your life. The Pit is reserved for real problems, like shopping cart thieves and the overuse of double negatives. Don't come whining about your unemployment here. You wanna know why?

Because it's your fault!

It's your fault you don't have a job. Don't tell us you've been looking and looking, because it's obvious you're a liar. If you were really looking, you'd have a job already. And you wouldn't be wasting time playing around on the internet.

Don't tell us there are no job wanted ads, because we'll find you some. Not in an effort to help, but to make you feel foolish and small. Because, see, we have jobs. That makes us better, smarter people than you. We made all the Right Choices. You, my friends, did not. So you deserve our ridicule and self-righteousness.

And employed poor people, we don't wanna hear about your hours being cut or your fears about lay-offs. We don't want to hear about your attempts to find better employment either, because only bad people are stuck in low-paid positions and only bad people can't get whatever job they want. If only you had gone to college and studied something important, you wouldn't have to work at Walmart or whatever craptastic job you have. Our economy can't function without craptastic jobs and the poor saps who work in them--and true, our society doesn't really make living on these jobs very easy--but it's still your fault if that's all you can get. And don't try coming up with any explanations, like illness, age, or lack of familial support. Those are excuses.

Say it with me: There's no such thing as bad luck, just bad people!

(a post written out of pure frustration and anger)

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:32 PM

Oh, right, because a year of unemployment completely negates 25 years of having a good wage and providing for a family. :rolleyes: Yes, I went to college, earned a very nice paycheck, avoided debt, put money away for bad times... but sometimes the shit keeps coming for awhile.

And who the hell is this "Acid Lamp" you keep referring to? I can't seem to find a poster by that name in this thread. Maybe I need new glasses, too.

The dark path I was referring to isn't your situation, it's your response to your situation.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:35 PM

What color is the sky in your world? In what way, shape or form is the quoted part of your post not:

??

Come on. In the colloquial sense of "don't judge other people" it means to think someone is "a bad person" based on some characteristic about them.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:36 PM

The dark path I was referring to isn't your situation, it's your response to your situation.
I suppose I could have gotten drunk and fat - but I can't afford the required amounts of booze and food. :rolleyes:

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:40 PM

I missed said post. My bad. But, since you asked so nicely, here you go (http://www.cnbc.com/id/26841228):

That covers private student loans. On the federal (http://ezinearticles.com/?Do-You-Qualify-For-a-Student-Loan?&id=258526) side:

The bolded (by me) phrases indicate that, logically, not everyone will qualify--else, why the need for eligibility requirements?

Jesus. Here are the oh-so-elusive eligibility requirements:

Eligibility Requirements
Enrolled at least half time at an eligible school and maintaining satisfactory academic progress
A U.S. citizen or a permanent resident of the U.S. or an eligible territory
Not currently in default. Must not owe a refund on any Title IV loan or grant
Registered with Selective Service (if borrower is a male under age 25)

From here: http://www.scholarships.com/stafford-loans/stafford-loans.aspx

So again, it is technically true that "not everyone" can qualify for a student loan, but just about everyone can. So, your response that "not everyone" can get a student loan is completely ridiculous in the context of this thread.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 08:41 PM

Come on. In the colloquial sense of "don't judge other people" it means to think someone is "a bad person" based on some characteristic about them.

No, it doesn't.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:43 PM

I don't want to dwell too much on the past... the past is beyond my control. I can only affect the present and future, so that's what I'm interested in.

Glad to hear it. Go work hard and you could be a multi-millionaire some day. Let me know if you need some tax advice if that happens.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:50 PM

Bricker

01-01-2009, 08:51 PM

Uh.. yeah. There hasn't been any odd job construction things for me to do the last couple weeks of December (last day I worked was the 19th) and I've spent the better part of two weeks trying to get the Federal unemployment extension that I was told in a nice formal letter I qualified for. The fact my past year's work history extends to two states is apparently causing some trouble and confusion, along the fact that Lake County closed one of it's two "full service" unemployment offices resulting in extreme overcrowding and backlogs at the remaining office. It's been particularly bad of late. I didn't intend for it to take so long, but at least give me credit for continuing to look for something while standing in a three block long line at 8 am freezing my ass off. While at the unemployment office I clearly wasn't on MY computer or the library's and while they have some there at the UO they were restricting them to those entering claims and not permitting their use for job searches due to the aforementioned overcrowding.

Well, none of the Lake County unemployment offices are open Saturday (http://www.in.gov/dwd/WorkOne/regions/region1.html), so I assume you weren't there then. But the Lake County library system (http://www.lakeco.lib.in.us/location.htm) has several branches that ARE open Saturday. The Central branch is a mere five miles from the Crown Point unemployment office.

The library gets both newspapers in hard copy, and has internet access.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 08:56 PM

Well . . . yeah. That's right. Who the hell else is responsible for something in your life you don't like? Mother Theresa? Englebert Humperdink? the '86 Dodgers?

What, are you retarded? And you accuse me of making ridiculous statements. Y'know, some bad things are beyond your control. Or are you gonna sit there and tell me with a straight face that if an Airbus A380 plows into my house, it's somehow my fault?

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 08:58 PM

Brickner, I am no longer playing this game with you where you ask me a question and you shit on my answer. I do not have to make you privy to any more of my life than I already have. You have already decided I'm a horrible person and you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. No doubt you will accuse me of being evasive or whatever, but I chose not to have every choice and decision in my life nitpicked by an internet asshole, nor do I need to account to you for every moment of my day or every day of my week.

Go beat up some six year olds or steal from blind people for your jollies. Fuck off and die. Or better yet, be unemployed and homeless and begging for food in soup kitchens.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 08:58 PM

Once again, you conveniently ignore the point that he's trying to go to college. Or maybe you just have the attention span of a retarded gnat.

How does one try to go to college? Go, or don't go, what is this "try"? Either way, no whining.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 08:59 PM

What, are you retarded? And you accuse me of making ridiculous statements. Y'know, some bad things are beyond your control. Or are you gonna sit there and tell me with a straight face that if an Airbus A380 plows into my house, it's somehow my fault?

Ahem. The grown-ups are having a conversation about people not being able to find work or not liking their jobs or their hours being cut, etc., not about random acts that the victim obviously has no control over. Or are you saying that if someone is unemployed or underemployed for a long period of time then that is exactly like an airplane hitting their house?

Also, "retarded" is not really the preferred nomenclature, dude.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 09:00 PM

How does one try to go to college? Go, or don't go, what is this "try"? Either way, no whining.

What are you, fucking Yoda? Fuck off, moron.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 09:00 PM

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:02 PM

Well, none of the Lake County unemployment offices are open Saturday (http://www.in.gov/dwd/WorkOne/regions/region1.html), so I assume you weren't there then. But the Lake County library system (http://www.lakeco.lib.in.us/location.htm) has several branches that ARE open Saturday. The Central branch is a mere five miles from the Crown Point unemployment office.
The Crown Point Work One site does not process inter-state unemployment claims. I wish it did - it's a hell of a lot closer to me and much less crowded. I have to go to Hammond because of the nature of my claim.

I've already mentioned going to the library, I fail to see where you think you are pointing it out to me for the first time. Not only did you fail to mention the many other branches of the Lake County library, it apparently also escaped you that they have Sunday hours as well, which I know from having spent many hours there.

In other words, asshat, I already knew that and have been taking advantage of it. Once again, you demonstrate that your only purpose here is to piss on me.

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 09:03 PM

Ahem. The grown-ups are having a conversation about people not being able to find work or not liking their jobs or their hours being cut, etc., not about random acts that the victim obviously has no control over. Or are you saying that if someone is unemployed or underemployed for a long period of time then that is exactly like an airplane hitting their house?

No, it was a deliberate absurdity to underscore the point. Fact is, things can happen to put a person in dire straits which are beyond his control. It can even happen to you, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Green Cymbeline

01-01-2009, 09:05 PM

I'm pretty sure that every swingin' dick (or whatever) can get some form of loan to go to school.You got a cite for that? I doubt it. Most student loans I know of (ones I have gotten and that family and friends have gotten) won't pay for the entire cost of tuition, much less living expenses.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Translation: I can't come up with any more dodges that are remotely credible, and I'm still unwilling to admit my original exaggeration, so I'll flounce off in a huff.
Hardly. I'm still here, not fluffing and huffing. I simply refuse to rise to your bait and give you more opportunity to piss on me and my efforts. Nothing I say will change your opinion, that is obvious, so why should I bother?

See above post with your condescending and sneering jibe about Lake County library hours when I had previously mentioned many, many times that I have spent time at the library. You're just looking for new ways to shit on me. Go shit in a toilet like a decent human being instead on other people less fortunate than you.

MadPansy64

01-01-2009, 09:06 PM

Which makes me all the more irked at the over-the-top claims Broomstick made. Times are tough, and there's enough real obstacles to discuss without either fabricating or admitting that you're too unimaginative to figure out how it is that weeks and weeks of papers have no want ads at all.

Could you consider that, perhaps, the claim "no want ads" could have been not rigorously defined as an empty column in help wanted section, but more loosely defined as a "7 scams, 13 I've already applied for along with 300 other people, 5 that have local phone numbers but are actually for picking fruit half a continent away, 1 guy who can't get help because his payroll checks bounce, 3 ads seeking doctoral degrees with 10 years experience, and one for a whorehouse piano player with a good work ethic" variety of none?

Where I am, right now (my location varies), in a weirdly healthy local micro-economy, there are three columns of print ads. Skilled oil field (75+ miles from town) help, a half dozen highly specialized professional positions, out of state unskilled labor, 2 phone sales, 1 snow plow mechanic, and 7 part time fast food opportunities. It takes 4 hours, a couple bucks worth of stamps, and those same listings, tomorrow, turn into "NO want ads." The pre-Xmas sunday paper has an additional "make money at home" ad, but is essentially the same.

PM me your snail mail address, and I will mail you a hard copy as my cite. I hope that next Sundays paper has boatloads of viable leads to prove me wrong, but you probably ought not hold your breath.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 09:08 PM

No, it was a deliberate absurdity to underscore the point. Fact is, things can happen to put a person in dire straits which are beyond his control. It can even happen to you, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Here's the point you and lots of others have missed this whole thread. Of course something bad (like losing a job) can happen to anyone and could happen to me. The difference between me and some people (like Acid Lamp) is that I would (i) think "well goddammit" and (ii) find a new job. I wouldn't wallow in my poor fate and have all sorts of excuses why the fact I haven't found a job in months isn't my fault.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:10 PM

Ahem. The grown-ups are having a conversation about people not being able to find work or not liking their jobs or their hours being cut, etc., not about random acts that the victim obviously has no control over.
So... people who lose their jobs to illness, outsourcing, company bankruptcy, or disabling injury are... somehow in control of those circumstances? What are you saying?

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 09:10 PM

You got a cite for that? I doubt it. Most student loans I know of (ones I have gotten and that family and friends have gotten) won't pay for the entire cost of tuition, much less living expenses.

Are you asking for a cite for the claim that I am pretty sure about something? Man, I'm not sure how to respond to that. I do assure you, though, that I am most certainly pretty sure.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 09:11 PM

What are you, fucking Yoda? Fuck off, moron.

How does one "try" to go to college? I guess if you can't google it, there is no answer.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 09:11 PM

The Crown Point Work One site does not process inter-state unemployment claims. I wish it did - it's a hell of a lot closer to me and much less crowded. I have to go to Hammond because of the nature of my claim.

I've already mentioned going to the library, I fail to see where you think you are pointing it out to me for the first time. Not only did you fail to mention the many other branches of the Lake County library, it apparently also escaped you that they have Sunday hours as well, which I know from having spent many hours there.

In other words, asshat, I already knew that and have been taking advantage of it. Once again, you demonstrate that your only purpose here is to piss on me.

So you attempt to put me in my place my pointing out that you've had even MORE opportunities to find want ads, and yet were unable to?

I don't want to tell you how to present your case, but I have to say this current tack isn't the most effective one. You started out claiming that there were no want ads. In fact, you made the effort of saying "...repeat NO" ads "for weeks," to underscore the incredible paucity of ads with which you were faced.

Now we've shown that there are two papers, both of which have ads, and we've further shown (in part from your own post above) that there were plenty of opportunities to get to these ads.

My only purpose isn't to piss on you. My purpose is to rebut the ridiculous claim you made. The moment you say something along the lines of, "OK, obviously there ARE plenty of ads, but my problem with them is X...." then I'm out of the picture. I have no idea what your skill set is and what your requirements are. For all I know, every single ad is insufficient for a very justifiable reason.

But you couldn't say that. No, no -- it has to be "no ads" for "weeks" that you're facing. That's such obvious horseshit -- of COURSE you're gonna get called on it. And in doing, your fake crisis sullies poor Blaron, who, so far as I can tell, is having a legitimate crisis.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 09:12 PM

So... people who lose their jobs to illness, outsourcing, company bankruptcy, or disabling injury are... somehow in control of those circumstances? What are you saying?

Well, if they didn't have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 09:15 PM

Could you consider that, perhaps, the claim "no want ads" could have been not rigorously defined as an empty column in help wanted section, but more loosely defined ....

Maybe -- certainly that's more defensible than no ads at all.

But here's the thing. When a person writes, "There are no ads," I might go along with your idea.

When a person writes "NO, repeat NO ads" then I have to conclude that the extra keystrokes are there for a reason.

And even then -- even if that's not the case, at the first criticism of the phrase, the honest person writes "Well, i didn't literally mean no ads. I meant 7 scams, 13 I've already applied for along with 300 other people, 5 that have local phone numbers but are actually for picking fruit half a continent away..."

The fact that Broomstick has instead piled circumstance upon circumstance to defend the original, literal claim suggests your view isn't the right one.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 09:19 PM

How does one "try" to go to college? I guess if you can't google it, there is no answer. Well, you dumb cunt, you need only READ THIS VERY OP to learn how one "tries" to go to college.

One plans, months in advance, to find roommates near the college they want to attend (possibly the closest one they're eligible to be accepted)
One then starts looking for jobs in that area, so that when he moves, he has a way to support himself while attending college
One continues to utilize the resources at their disposal -- friends with cars to drive him to places to apply, scouring the internet and the newspapers for jobs, walking into places in person to ask for work, etc.

These are the things responsible people do BEFORE accepting responsibility for rent-sharing with friends and potentially leaving them holding the bill, or applying for classes without the means to pay the tuition or buy the books or materials to participate.

Dumbass.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:23 PM

Well, if they didn't have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation.
So... if... hypothetically a 20 year old in is college surviving on student loans and burger-flipping they're supposed to have savings and disability insurance to protect them from the drunk driver who runs them down on the sidewalk as they are walking to the bus to go home and leaves them unable to work? The nice young men and women going to Iraq who get blown up or shot in the head leaving poorly functioning are irresponsible for not having a lifetime's worth of money in the bank to care for them and their families?

While there are irresponsible people in this world, a lot of those less fortunate than you were responsible people that bad things happened to. But do continue in your fantasy land that if only everyone were good, responsible people nothing bad would ever happen to them.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 09:26 PM

So... if... hypothetically a 20 year old in is college surviving on student loans and burger-flipping they're supposed to have savings and disability insurance to protect them from the drunk driver who runs them down on the sidewalk as they are walking to the bus to go home and leaves them unable to work? The nice young men and women going to Iraq who get blown up or shot in the head leaving poorly functioning are irresponsible for not having a lifetime's worth of money in the bank to care for them and their families?

While there are irresponsible people in this world, a lot of those less fortunate than you were responsible people that bad things happened to. But do continue in your fantasy land that if only everyone were good, responsible people nothing bad would ever happen to them.

I didn't say they are "supposed to" have disability insurance or savings. If they don't then they are assuming the risk that comes along with that. I'd venture that most people without families that depend on their income are willing to assume the very small risk of them not being able to work in any capacity for the rest of their lives.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:28 PM

So tell me HOW someone 20 years old, or 22 years old could be able to afford disability insurance or have a wad of money in the bank... short of coming from a wealthy background and much family assistance?

even sven

01-01-2009, 09:33 PM

Blalron don't let these guys get you down. The pit is a crappy place to look for sympathy. For some reason these threads bring out the worst in people. I've been on the receiving end of this kind of thing before, at the absolute worst time in my life. It sucks.

But there is some truth in what they are saying underneath all their negative emotions. This isn't a problem with no solution. You can beat this. It will not be comfortable and it will take work. But you have to do it one way or another. But you can't think of yourself as a loser. People can see right through that and will never hire you as long as you even have a hint of this attitude. Best to get over the self-pity ASAP and do what it takes. It's going to have to happen at some point, might as well make it happen now. Go out there expecting to get what you want, and you will eventually get it.

I'll give you some advice, from someone who knows the place you are in well:

Buy a copy of "What Color is your Parachute" It's cheesy and from the self-help aisle, but this book changed my career. It taught me exactly why I wasn't finding jobs even though I was sending off thousands of resumes. It gave me confidence. It taught me how to write a real resume. And it even helped me refine my goals in life. Do what it takes to get a copy of this book.
Try something crazy. Once I had no job and thought I could make money as a waitress. But nobody wanted to hire me with no experience. So I wrote a letter explaining why I wanted to be a waitress and why people should accept me with no experience, and mailed it to every restaurant in town. My phone rang off the hook for weeks.
Use the "Craig's List Technique" I made this up myself, and it works like magic. Post an ad in the "resumes" section of Craig's List. Write something crazy. Something completely out there. Once all I wrote was a story about how my television exploded. Then tie it back to the fact that you are looking for a job. Don't include your resume in the ad- say that you'll email it to anyone who is interested. People will be intrigued. They'll want to meet the weirdo who wrote this ad. And they never bother just asking for your resume- they'll ask you in directly for an interview. This plan works. Every time I've used it I've ended up with dozens of job offers and found a good job within a couple of weeks.

Good luck!

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 09:37 PM

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 09:41 PM

One plans, months in advance, to find roommates near the college they want to attend (possibly the closest one they're eligible to be accepted)
One then starts looking for jobs in that area, so that when he moves, he has a way to support himself while attending college
One continues to utilize the resources at their disposal -- friends with cars to drive him to places to apply, scouring the internet and the newspapers for jobs, walking into places in person to ask for work, etc.

These are the things responsible people do BEFORE accepting responsibility for rent-sharing with friends and potentially leaving them holding the bill, or applying for classes without the means to pay the tuition or buy the books or materials to participate.

Yeah, they secure funds to attend college, find a place to live, get a job, etc. That's what every college student has to do. Millions of kids do it all the time. What makes the OP so special?

Acid Lamp

01-01-2009, 09:46 PM

Wow, my ears are burning. It gives me some satisfaction to know that I've managed to make such a bad impression on a two dollar cum bucket like Rand Rover.

As an aside, Carol Stream, would you do me a favor and send me some of the seeds your money tree has been dropping? I'll be happy to germinate them and send a few seedlings off the Blalron so he can get some extra money to go to school. Apparently you don't read for comprehension very well you dried out twat-waffle. His parents are apparently split up, and neither have money to spare. He admits that he could have done better in school, but getting a loan is difficult right now. Even if it was easy, he's reluctant to throw himself into serious debt in an economic climate that doesn't seem to value degrees overly much anyway. I don't blame him one bit, my lack of any debt is a major contributor to keeping me financially solvent while I've been out of work.

Blalron, So yourself a favor and try to get in with a trade job as a helper. You may need to take a "working vacation" to New City to spend a few days pounding the pavement. It sucks, but there you go. Stay with your friends, and eat cheap. Ramen cheap. Bug your friends for jobs, it's how I've gotten the position I'll hopefully be starting soon. It had little to do with my qualifications, and past experience, even though I had a good history in the field.

Don't be too proud to grab a meal at the soup kitchen or church if you have to. Many fast food joints have a dollar menu and you can get full for a couple of bucks when you are out. Keep trying, something will come up, but only if you keep at it. Put up some flyers for general labor around your neighborhood.

Good luck.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 09:47 PM

Yeah, they secure funds to attend college, find a place to live, get a job, etc. That's what every college student has to do. Millions of kids do it all the time. What makes the OP so special?

He has trouble succeeding in doing that, he's understandably worried and he feels the need to vent.

There's no more qualification required to open a pit thread.

Bricker

01-01-2009, 09:53 PM

But there is some truth in what they are saying underneath all their negative emotions. This isn't a problem with no solution. You can beat this. It will not be comfortable and it will take work. But you have to do it one way or another. But you can't think of yourself as a loser. People can see right through that and will never hire you as long as you even have a hint of this attitude. Best to get over the self-pity ASAP and do what it takes. It's going to have to happen at some point, might as well make it happen now. Go out there expecting to get what you want, and you will eventually get it.

I hope the following doesn't have a condescending flavor, or indeed any negative emotion at all, because it's motivated by pure admiration:

even sven, I remember your early threads in the early years, and frankly I can't think of anyone who has matured and grown as well as you have. Your transformation in real life is something I can only guess at; here on the boards it's nothing short of dramatic and well deserving of admiration and respect... which this post attempts in some poor measure to render.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 09:53 PM

He has trouble succeeding in doing that, he's understandably worried and he feels the need to vent.

And if he opened this thread in MPSIMS, he would have all the {{hugs}} he was looking for. In the Pit, not so much.

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 09:55 PM

Acid Lamp let me just say I'm happy to make your acquaintance. So you're the one I've heard so much about - based upon your post I think I'm happy to be lumped in with you.

FoieGrasIsEvil

01-01-2009, 09:55 PM

OMG. Mr. GQ answer man doesn't know what my username could possibly be referring to? Perhaps you should . . . ok I won't say it . . . :p

Your overpriced piece of shit British-built SUV?

FoieGrasIsEvil

01-01-2009, 09:58 PM

Acid Lamp

01-01-2009, 10:00 PM

Acid Lamp let me just say I'm happy to make your acquaintance. So you're the one I've heard so much about - based upon your post I think I'm happy to be lumped in with you.

You may live to regret that. :D

Q.E.D.

01-01-2009, 10:01 PM

Well, you DO have internet access. If I was barely scraping by for food and mortgage payments, cable TV, internet access and any extras would be the first to go. These things cost a LOT of money and are NOT necessary to live.

Public libraries frequently offer free internet access to library card holders. While there are usually time limits, it's certainly sufficient for a job search.

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 10:02 PM

And if he opened this thread in MPSIMS, he would have all the {{hugs}} he was looking for. In the Pit, not so much.

There's no obligation to hug the OP in MPSIMS, and I often don't. There's no obligation to flame the OP in the Pit, and I often don't.

FoieGrasIsEvil

01-01-2009, 10:05 PM

Public libraries frequently offer free internet access to library card holders. While there are usually time limits, it's certainly sufficient for a job search.

Again, no offense meant. I always do the internet thing from home, as I can afford to pay for it (for now, Comcast may yet be my undoing).

Acid Lamp

01-01-2009, 10:06 PM

Public libraries frequently offer free internet access to library card holders. While there are usually time limits, it's certainly sufficient for a job search.

For a search certainly, for completing multiple online applications, not so much. Nashiitashii's library offers a maximum of one hour per person, depending on traffic, most people don't get more than one session. Most branches are not so generous with the time either. Remember that many, many companies have gone completely over to digital applications. An internet connection is a fair investment of funds in you are searching hard. The other stuff like cable tv, etc, I'm right on board with you in that they need to go.

Ed Zotti

01-01-2009, 10:10 PM

Finally, as a French person, you are probably constitutionally incapable of understanding concepts such as personal responsibility and all that, so you get a pass.Mod note: I realize this is the Pit, but the above skates pretty close to hate speech, i.e., insults based on someone's ethnicity. Don't do this again.

Sarahfeena

01-01-2009, 10:11 PM

I hope the following doesn't have a condescending flavor, or indeed any negative emotion at all, because it's motivated by pure admiration:

even sven, I remember your early threads in the early years, and frankly I can't think of anyone who has matured and grown as well as you have. Your transformation in real life is something I can only guess at; here on the boards it's nothing short of dramatic and well deserving of admiration and respect... which this post attempts in some poor measure to render.I came into this thread to say virtually the exact same thing, even sven. I think your post here is a fantastic bit of advice, and it really demonstrates how you have grown. I am so impressed with how sensible and practical you have become, while still holding on to your ideals and desire to help others. That is really something to be admired.

One other thing for the OP...if college doesn't work out for you right now, don't get too discouraged...even crappy minimum wage jobs can lead to something better if you work hard and look for opportunities. Hang in there!

clairobscur

01-01-2009, 10:16 PM

Well, you DO have internet access. If I was barely scraping by for food and mortgage payments, cable TV, internet access and any extras would be the first to go. These things cost a LOT of money and are NOT necessary to live.

No offense meant.

Nowadays, keeping an internet access when you're looking for a job seems like a very reasonable decision to me. Having access to adds, your e-mail, etc... at any moment and for as long as needed appears to be at least very useful, and possibly almost mandatory.

monstro

01-01-2009, 10:19 PM

Seeing as how I've found both my current job and the previous one on the internet, I wouldn't recommend cutting off internet service to an unemployed person unless they truly couldn't afford it. You can use the internet at the library, but only for a limited amount of time. Certainly not enough time to send out all the resumes, fill out all the online applications, and scour the job boards that you need to.

Bricker, do you really think Broomstick hasn't tried her hardest to find employment? Does it make you feel better about yourself to dump all over her? Really, it seriously bothers me that you're picking an argument with her but don't have anything to say about Rand Rover's ignorant ass. Why is it that a Christ-lover like you has nothing to say about his kind of jackassery (your quiet disapproval notwithstanding), but you're more than happy to jump on someone who is dares to talk about her struggles with unemployment?

For once, I'd like someone like you, someone who has a reputation around here for being a good testament to conservative values, to battle against morons like Rand Rover or Carol Stream.

Fear Itself

01-01-2009, 10:24 PM

I don't think putting fraudulent information on a job application is such a good idea. Might come back to bite ya in the ass later on.As opposed to being bitten in the ass upfront? Can't say as I see the downside to lying on an application if you aren't going to get the job otherwise. It may be unethical, but the argument that it will make things worse for you is clearly false. That's why people lie so often; they frequently get away with it, and it improves their circumstances.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 10:27 PM

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 10:31 PM

Bricker, do you really think Broomstick hasn't tried her hardest to find employment? Does it make you feel better about yourself to dump all over her? Really, it seriously bothers me that you're picking an argument with her but don't have anything to say about Rand Rover's ignorant ass. Why is it that a Christ-lover like you has nothing to say about his kind of jackassery (your quiet disapproval notwithstanding), but you're more than happy to jump on someone who is dares to talk about her struggles with unemployment?

For once, I'd like someone like you, someone who has a reputation around here for being a good testament to conservative values, to battle against moron like Rand Rover or Carol Stream.
I really think Bricker's only beef with Broomstick is that he perceives that she made a factual assertion, and that when its factuality is disputed, she will neither own up to the possibility that her assertion was not factual, nor rebut the evidence that suggested that it wasn't.

I don't think he disputes at all her assertions that she's been working exceptionally hard at improving her employment situation.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 10:36 PM

Mod note: I realize this is the Pit, but the above skates pretty close to hate speech, i.e., insults based on someone's ethnicity. Don't do this again.

OK. I meant it as a reference to French politics and not the French people, so "Democrat" would be the better substitution for "French" than would "black person" or whatever, but I understand what you're saying.

Fear Itself

01-01-2009, 10:36 PM

It MAY be unethical?Yes, it may be unethical. Do you wish to argue?

Starving Artist

01-01-2009, 10:39 PM

As opposed to being bitten in the ass upfront? Can't say as I see the downside to lying on an application if you aren't going to get the job otherwise. It may be unethical, but the argument that it will make things worse for you is clearly false. That's why people lie so often; they frequently get away with it, and it improves their circumstances.I knew a guy once who, after years of living the party lifestyle, got a great job with the phone company. He was working as an information operator and was getting paid $18 hr. plus tons of benefits and time off. He was doing a good job, his supervisors and co-workers loved him, and he felt the job was permanent. So he got a better apartment, a better car, some cool clothes and a permanent girlfriend.

After six months came the time for the company to decide whether to make his employment permanent so a background check was run, which revealed a DUI that he had not put on his application. So he went from young man on the way up to instantly unemployed, and with virtually no chance of maintaining the lifestyle he'd graded himself up to. He lost his car, his apartment and his girlfriend, and wound up working in a convenience store.

I doubt that he'd advise lying on your job app. You just never know when the truth will come back to bite you on the ass (and when it does, you can almost bet it will be at the worst possible time).

Broomstick

01-01-2009, 10:41 PM

Well, you DO have internet access. If I was barely scraping by for food and mortgage payments, cable TV, internet access and any extras would be the first to go. These things cost a LOT of money and are NOT necessary to live.

No offense meant.
As it happens, I don't have a mortgage, I rent. I am getting a break on the rent by working for the landlord. I'm not sure what "extras" you think I have. Right now, internet access is the ONLY nonessential I have, and given that most job apps are on-line these days AND my state requires reporting job seeking information for unemployment benefits on-line it's not entirely a luxury. We don't eat out anymore, I haven't bought clothes anywhere but Goodwill for a year and a half, my most recent pair of new shoes were given to me as a gift, we've given up the cellphones, satellite TV, really everything BUT the internet. Hell, I even grew some of my own food this summer and cook everything from scratch so I don't even buy processed foods anymore, just scratch ingredients.

I can have internet access from home, or spend the money on gas to get to the library. Kind of a toss up these days, except that from home I've been known to fill out job apps at 2 am, which I can't do at the library. That means when I do get work on a day I can still come home and look for work without worrying about library hours. And, oh yeah, I've been using the internet to sell some of my possession on eBay, too - so like I said, it's not entirely a luxury.

Carol Stream

01-01-2009, 10:42 PM

Yes, it may be unethical. Do you wish to argue?

What's the arguement? It is unethical.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 10:42 PM

Thread Jerk note:

I just want to make sure everyone understands that I would not have posted to this thread were it not for Blalron's post wherein he lamented having to "pound the pavement." And his later posts do show that he understands that he is responsible for himself and he will do the work necessary to get his ass in shape.

Fear Itself

01-01-2009, 10:45 PM

I knew a guy once who, after years of living the party lifestyle, got a great job with the phone company. He was working as an information operator and was getting paid $18 hr. plus tons of benefits and time off. He was doing a good job, his supervisors and co-workers loved him, and he felt the job was permanent. So he got a better apartment, a better car, some cool clothes and a permanent girlfriend.

After six months came the time for the company to decide whether to make his employment permanent so a background check was run, which revealed a DUI that he had not put on his application. So he went from young man on the way up to instantly unemployed, and with virtually no chance of maintaining the lifestyle he'd graded himself up to. He lost his car, his apartment and his girlfriend, and wound up working in a convenience store.

I doubt that he'd advise lying on your job app. You just never know when the truth will come back to bite you on the ass (and when it does, you can almost bet it will be at the worst possible time).So you believe it was likely he would have gotten the job if he had listed the DUI? At least he had six months of good employment. Yes, it is unethical, but please, don't tell me you are always better off telling the truth, 'cuz it just ain't necessarily so.

even sven

01-01-2009, 10:46 PM

even sven, I remember your early threads in the early years, and frankly I can't think of anyone who has matured and grown as well as you have. Your transformation in real life is something I can only guess at; here on the boards it's nothing short of dramatic and well deserving of admiration and respect... which this post attempts in some poor measure to render.

Thank you. I mean it.

I hit the bottom a lifelong spell of depression. It reached the point where I knew I had to get better or else I was going to die one way or the other. Your guy's tough love was certainly a part of me realizing I had a choice and I had to make it. I chose to live and I had to change everything in my life, from my apartment to my friends to my basic sense of who I am. It was the most terrifying and painful things imaginable. It felt like jumping off a cliff. It felt like breaking bones.

I'm not sure what alchemy made my choice to become un-depressed actually work, but *knock on wood* it's held so far. I've been better for about four years. I am thankful every day that I wake up with the ability to see clearly. Once I got over the first terrifying steps, it seems like my life has fallen into place and I find myself doing the things I used to dream of. Next summer I am going to take the Trans-Siberian railway to Europe, something I'd dreamed about in high school. I just feel so fortunate that I got better, so in awe of what life has to offer, and so excited to see what happens next.

Fear Itself

01-01-2009, 10:46 PM

What's the arguement? It is unethical.It sounded like you had a bone to pick. My mistake.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 10:50 PM

The nice young men and women going to Iraq who get blown up or shot in the head leaving poorly functioning are irresponsible for not having a lifetime's worth of money in the bank to care for them and their families? Yeah, they'd better be all set up because unless they're actually engaged in armed combat (as opposed to, say, being blown up by a roadside bomb or diving for cover from a mortar attack), their disability claims are going to be severely curtailed by the very fucking government that sent their asses over there (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.combat14dec14,0,1772974.story) to get blown up in the first place. The same government that fuckwads like Rand Rover thinks licks the ass of G-d. Arrogant know-it-alls-I'm-better-than-yous like him make me sick to my stomach.

And Carol Stream, you really are dumber than a bag of wet hair, aren't you? You wanted to know the meaning of "trying" to go to college and alleged that if the definition can't be found on Google, there must not be an answer. I answered your question of precisely how one "tries" to go to college by pointing right to the OP without even having to rely on Google, and you come back with, "[yeah, but] what makes the OP so special?"

What? The? Fuck? He's not special. He's "trying" to go go college using the steps I outlined in my response to your request for a definition of same. You're just too much of a cuntlick to acknowledge that you're just trying to make yourself feel superior, just like Rand Rover. Well guess what babe?

Epic Fail!

faithfool

01-01-2009, 10:52 PM

And if he opened this thread in MPSIMS, he would have all the {{hugs}} he was looking for. In the Pit, not so much.

In case I've missed it, can you show me where the OP intimated that he was looking for hugs? Or perhaps complained about the treatment he has gotten here in the pit? Because I'm seeing none of those things.

Thank you.

monstro

01-01-2009, 10:58 PM

I really think Bricker's only beef with Broomstick is that he perceives that she made a factual assertion, and that when its factuality is disputed, she will neither own up to the possibility that her assertion was not factual, nor rebut the evidence that suggested that it wasn't.

I don't think he disputes at all her assertions that she's been working exceptionally hard at improving her employment situation.

Broomstick is poor. Anyone who has been paying attention to the boards knows her life sucks right now.

Why pick a fight with her over a trivial comment? Even if it's not true, why can't Bricker just assume it was a hyperbolic statement or something said out of frustration and hopelessness, and just let it slide. Why can't compassion and understanding ever supercede the juvenile urge to argue and be "right" all the time?

Blalron

01-01-2009, 11:00 PM

In case I've missed it, can you show me where the OP intimated that he was looking for hugs? Or perhaps complained about the treatment he has gotten here in the pit? Because I'm seeing none of those things.

Thank you.

I'm not afraid of constructive criticism. I've found some of the comments made here to be excessively harsh and unfair, but I was bracing for that.

Rand Rover

01-01-2009, 11:05 PM

You're just too much of a cuntlick to acknowledge that you're just trying to make yourself feel superior, just like Rand Rover.

Nuh-uh!

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 11:26 PM

Why pick a fight with her over a trivial comment? Even if it's not true, why can't Bricker just assume it was a hyperbolic statement or something said out of frustration and hopelessness, and just let it slide.Search me. Could be something to do with him being a lawyer.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)Why can't compassion and understanding ever supercede the juvenile urge to argue and be "right" all the time?I honestly don't think that's the case with Bricker. Rand Rover appears to be another story. :p

kaylasdad99

01-01-2009, 11:30 PM

And Carol Stream, you really are dumber than a bag of wet hair, aren't you? You wanted to know the meaning of "trying" to go to college and alleged that if the definition can't be found on Google, there must not be an answer. I answered your question of precisely how one "tries" to go to college by pointing right to the OP without even having to rely on Google, and you come back with, "[yeah, but] what makes the OP so special?"That was actually Carol Stream's attempt to co-opt someone else's schtick about hassling QED about his use of Google to inform a lot of the answers he gives in GQ. She wasn't really directing the Google-related snark at you.

Shayna

01-01-2009, 11:37 PM

Cat Whisperer

01-02-2009, 01:09 AM

I'm not afraid of constructive criticism. I've found some of the comments made here to be excessively harsh and unfair, but I was bracing for that.
Some people are being real pricks here, and I'm not sure why, except that they can. Maybe an IMHO thread asking for advice on how to get out of your situation would be a better idea than this mess of a Pit thread, if you're done venting.

spinky

01-02-2009, 01:41 AM

She said to use someone's address/phone that was closer to new city, but there is no indication that the OP receives mail/calls there.

In other words, a lie.Are you an idiot? It's just contact information, not a claim as to where you live. You can use a friggin PO box in Kalamazoo if you want. If that's a valid address at which you can be contacted, then it's perfectly legit and not a "lie".

jeredc1983

01-02-2009, 02:09 AM

I read the first two pages and I must say that you sound like a real fuckin prick "Rand Rover." Not that my handle is all that great but you have one that is really fucking aggravating. I'm so happy for you; you made all the excellent decisions in life and can shit on other people who have not.

I have a college degree and guess what? I am really happy to be employed in this ECONOMY. Fuck the economy, how about happy to just be employed? You sound like a real dickhead, but you have done everything right so I guess you are just really smart.

I've had too much to drink because I can afford to after a hard nights work; that I am grateful for and have nothing else to say to you. Still, you sound like a class A asshole. I hope you lose your job you condescending fucking prick.

kaylasdad99

01-02-2009, 03:43 AM

The Google part was secondary to the fact that she snarkily asked how one "tries" to go to college, stating that either one goes or one doesn't -- there is no "try". I disabused her of that absurd notion, and her response was, well, unresponsive. IMNSHO that makes her dumber than a bag of wet hair. YMMV.Nah, my mileage doesn't vary to any noticeable extent on that question. Unless it's a variation to note that she's also as mean as a. . . as a. . . well, as mean as a very mean thing that's made the finals of a single-elimination very mean thing tournament.

FarmerChick

01-02-2009, 05:54 AM

I knew a guy once who, after years of living the party lifestyle, got a great job with the phone company. He was working as an information operator and was getting paid $18 hr. plus tons of benefits and time off. He was doing a good job, his supervisors and co-workers loved him, and he felt the job was permanent. So he got a better apartment, a better car, some cool clothes and a permanent girlfriend.

After six months came the time for the company to decide whether to make his employment permanent so a background check was run, which revealed a DUI that he had not put on his application. So he went from young man on the way up to instantly unemployed, and with virtually no chance of maintaining the lifestyle he'd graded himself up to. He lost his car, his apartment and his girlfriend, and wound up working in a convenience store.

I doubt that he'd advise lying on your job app. You just never know when the truth will come back to bite you on the ass (and when it does, you can almost bet it will be at the worst possible time).

There is a huge difference between putting down a friends address and a criminal act. The OP is looking for a job, any job, he is unskilled. It is highly unlikely that Burger King or WalMart really cares where he lives as long as it is close enough so he can get to work on time. That is the point of using the friends address, that plus he is moving to the city anyway.

Common sense beats "ethics" every time. Not that some of the posters in this thread have any fucking common sense. Daft argumentative assholes.

The Tao's Revenge

01-02-2009, 06:01 AM

Well, if they didn't have disability insurance or savings then they took the risk of losing their job from injury or sickness and not being able to replace the income, so it is indeed their fault that they are in that situation.

Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn't matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn't matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn't matter if the economy crashed and you can't find work. Doesn't matter if you try to go to school and can't.

Doesn't matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant "suffer baby suffer you deserve it". Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small.

jayjay

01-02-2009, 07:15 AM

Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn't matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn't matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn't matter if the economy crashed and you can't find work. Doesn't matter if you try to go to school and can't.

Doesn't matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant "suffer baby suffer you deserve it". Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small.

I've found, as a general rule (though there are, of course, bound to be exceptions), that any poster with "Rand" in their username is going to be pretty much an asshole. It's the Objectivist Way...

even sven

01-02-2009, 07:25 AM

Gotta say that it really is true that jobs are reluctant to hire people with non-local addresses. I've seen it on the inside. Resumes get chucked in the "no" pile just for having the wrong area code. And I used to get grilled about my unusual cell phone area code every time someone called me about a job, even though I was established in my new city.

I don't think it's at all a breach of honesty to use local contact information. It's just contact information. If that is a valid way to contact you, it counts. Just make sure you are upfront in the interview if your location is going to cause any problems. When lived in Oakland, a lot of people I knew got cell phones with San Francisco area codes just for the prestige of it. Does this make them all liars?

But if this does ping your dishonesty meter, you can simply explain your situation ("I have signed a lease and will be moving to Doperville on the fifth of February") in your cover letter.

LonesomePolecat

01-02-2009, 10:15 AM

Perhaps it was just a recent print edition, but last week I did indeed see paper editions of the local papers that were without want ads. Perhaps they had ads on their website, but that did me little good while waiting outside for over an hour in the cold without access to computer as I waited just to get in the door of the unemployment office. Perhaps someone had stolen the want ads from every copy of the paper at that newstand. All I know is that I couldn't find a copy of the paper that had want ads in it.
.
I just found a total of 2 help wanted ads in today's dead tree edition of the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. That's scary.

Ed Zotti

01-02-2009, 11:23 AM

Go beat up some six year olds or steal from blind people for your jollies. Fuck off and die.Mod note: Please don't use an expression such as "fuck off and die" on the SDMB. I realize it's not meant literally, and we have sometimes overlooked it, but it's a technical violation of our rule against wishing death on someone, and we don't want to get into the business of distinguishing rhetorical death wishes from real ones.

Starving Artist

01-02-2009, 11:36 AM

There is a huge difference between putting down a friends address and a criminal act. The OP is looking for a job, any job, he is unskilled. It is highly unlikely that Burger King or WalMart really cares where he lives as long as it is close enough so he can get to work on time. That is the point of using the friends address, that plus he is moving to the city anyway.

Common sense beats "ethics" every time. Not that some of the posters in this thread have any fucking common sense. Daft argumentative assholes.Apparently it's necessary to point out that I was talking about lying on a job application in the main (re Fear Itself's post which appeared to be doing just that) as opposed to the specific minor instance of an address...unless of course subsequent information would come to light to reveal even that lie.

Lying, to an employer, regardless of degree and if discovered, means that the employee is dishonest and therefore untrustworthy, that he/she will lie if necessary to further their own ends, and therefore it's the lying itself that is the problem and not the relative severity of it.

John Mace

01-02-2009, 11:40 AM

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 12:08 PM

Ahh this folks is free marketism 101. Every possible thing is your fault. Doesn't matter if preventing it would have cost more money then you have. Doesn't matter if you start in a crappy place in life, or get stuck in a crappy place in life. Doesn't matter if the economy crashed and you can't find work. Doesn't matter if you try to go to school and can't.

Doesn't matter, you see they don their S&M suits and chant "suffer baby suffer you deserve it". Then they fap to your misery. You see human ideas of compassion, helping your fellow out, and dealing with human frailties have no place in their hearts that are 3 sizes too small.

People are responsible for their own actions or inactions. Not sure how you extrapolate that simple principle into me being a fan of human misery.

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 12:09 PM

I've found, as a general rule (though there are, of course, bound to be exceptions), that any poster with "Rand" in their username is going to be pretty much an asshole. It's the Objectivist Way...

To some of you idiots, failing to coddle a person that refuses to accept responsibility for their own actions is a jerkish asshole thing to do. To you people, I am proud to call myself a jerkish asshole.

Broomstick

01-02-2009, 12:12 PM

Bricker

01-02-2009, 12:23 PM

Bricker, do you really think Broomstick hasn't tried her hardest to find employment? Does it make you feel better about yourself to dump all over her? Really, it seriously bothers me that you're picking an argument with her but don't have anything to say about Rand Rover's ignorant ass. Why is it that a Christ-lover like you has nothing to say about his kind of jackassery (your quiet disapproval notwithstanding), but you're more than happy to jump on someone who is dares to talk about her struggles with unemployment?

Rand Rover's ignorant ass is simply offering opinions. They are, in my view, foolish and borne of lack of experience and lack of empathy. But they are not objectively wrong.

Broomstick makes an objectively false claim to buttress sympathy for a job search. This bothers me, because it undercuts the real problems people -- including Broomstick must face in job searches in tight economic times.

Bricker

01-02-2009, 12:28 PM

Broomstick is poor. Anyone who has been paying attention to the boards knows her life sucks right now.

Why pick a fight with her over a trivial comment? Even if it's not true, why can't Bricker just assume it was a hyperbolic statement or something said out of frustration and hopelessness, and just let it slide. Why can't compassion and understanding ever supercede the juvenile urge to argue and be "right" all the time?

Yeah, except (as I said above) a misunderstanding about a hyperbolic statement wouldn't have gone on this long. At the first attempt to address it as literal, Broomstick would have responded, "I didn't literally mean zero ads.. I meant no ads that I haven't seen before or that I'm suited for or..."

Instead, there's an impassioned defense of the literal claim.

So your question comes down to, "Even though Broomstick lied, repeatedly, don't give a hard time, because, you know, poor and all." And I'm sorry, but having been scary poor myself, I'm not able to see that excusing this sort of claim. So I will decline your invitation to let it go and not point out the lamentable mendacious excess of Broomstick.

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 12:36 PM

The fan of human misery things comes from the Ayn Rand meme. Oh, and your "fuck you, I got mine" flavor and your arrogance that the bad things can't happen to you because... well, because you make good decisions so bad luck can't touch you and it magically repels hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, and asteroids coming out of the sky.

It's not your belief in responsibility so much as your attitude towards the less fortunate.

Broomstick, you simply don't understand what I've been saying in this thread and others. I don't think that I can't be hit by a catastrophe--I'm just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning. And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case. Search for the thread started by your new BFF Acid Lamp to see what I'm talking about in a more pure form than was presented in this thread.

You also don't understand what a "meme" is (it's a single thought or idea--the entire work of an author can't be a single meme).

Manda JO

01-02-2009, 12:45 PM

Broomstick, you simply don't understand what I've been saying in this thread and others. I don't think that I can't be hit by a catastrophe--I'm just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning. And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case. Search for the thread started by your new BFF Acid Lamp to see what I'm talking about in a more pure form than was presented in this thread.

You also don't understand what a "meme" is (it's a single thought or idea--the entire work of an author can't be a single meme).

Why do you get on their case? Honest question. You manner seems to make people defensive and angry, so if you think it's for their own good, I think you are misguided--even when your insights are correct, your manner causes them to be rejected--along with any more constructively phrased advice, so you're actually causing harm. I don't see what benefit anyone gets from your actions--including yourself.

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 12:56 PM

Why do you get on their case? Honest question. You manner seems to make people defensive and angry, so if you think it's for their own good, I think you are misguided--even when your insights are correct, your manner causes them to be rejected--along with any more constructively phrased advice, so you're actually causing harm. I don't see what benefit anyone gets from your actions--including yourself.

I absolutely understand what you are saying and was thinking about this myself last night.

First, I disagree that the target isn't helped. An acerbic and confrontational tone is necessary to get through to some people, which is why it's used in certain settings (see, e.g., boot camp).

Second, I think that even if my manner of speaking turns off the direct target, other people that are reading may get some benefit from it. Maybe they are still formulating their thoughts on these issues and the different policy implications and political philosophies that result, so maybe I'll help them see the light.

Finally, the benefit I get from it is that apparently I'm kind of an asshole and I get my jollies from yelling at idiots. I like to get my RO on everyone once in a while like everyone else, and the types of people I rail against in these threads are apparently my favorite targets. Other people like to rail against bush or "the corporations" or whatever.

Broomstick

01-02-2009, 12:58 PM

Broomstick, you simply don't understand what I've been saying in this thread and others. I don't think that I can't be hit by a catastrophe--I'm just saying I would respond to that catashtrophe by getting to work instead of bitching and moaning.
If you woke up blind tomorrow would you still be able to do the work you do today?

If you were in a car accident and your neck was broken, leaving you paralyzed from the neck down, could you still do the work you do today?

If you were in an accident and both your hands were amputated could you still do the work you do today?

If you slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk and hit your head, causing brain damage that screwed up your ability to talk and remember things could you still do the work you do today?

If a natural disaster (fire, flood, whatever) hit your home tomorrow and you lost everything material you own, down to your ID and the cash in your pockets, do you not think that would have a serious lasting impact on you that would take years to recover from?

Tell me how you, personally, are immune to all of the above. Do you have enough to support yourself for the rest of your life? If the last event on that list happens, by the way, you won't be able to cash in your disability insurance - you won't be disabled, "just" homeless and lacking a lot of resources you've been accustomed to having, like a shower and toilet and a place to store food and spare clothing.

And when others bitch and moan instead of getting to work, I get on their case.
Who the fuck appointed you their parents? Tell me, do poor people have no right to moan or are they supposed to shut the fuck up and be happy peasants for the nobility such as yourself?

You also don't understand what a "meme" is (it's a single thought or idea--the entire work of an author can't be a single meme).
Yes I do, Randroid. What I referred to was the oft-repeated bullshit vomited by Ayn Rand fans that one is somehow totally in control of everything that happens in one's life and that if something beyond your control happened, well, tough shit, you should have had the clairvoyance to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I realize that is not exactly what Ayn Rand's work espouses, it's just the dumbed-down version for kneejerk idiots such as yourself.

Broomstick

01-02-2009, 01:04 PM

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 01:07 PM

If you woke up blind tomorrow would you still be able to do the work you do today?

If you were in a car accident and your neck was broken, leaving you paralyzed from the neck down, could you still do the work you do today?

If you were in an accident and both your hands were amputated could you still do the work you do today?

If you slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk and hit your head, causing brain damage that screwed up your ability to talk and remember things could you still do the work you do today?

If a natural disaster (fire, flood, whatever) hit your home tomorrow and you lost everything material you own, down to your ID and the cash in your pockets, do you not think that would have a serious lasting impact on you that would take years to recover from?

Tell me how you, personally, are immune to all of the above. Do you have enough to support yourself for the rest of your life? If the last event on that list happens, by the way, you won't be able to cash in your disability insurance - you won't be disabled, "just" homeless and lacking a lot of resources you've been accustomed to having, like a shower and toilet and a place to store food and spare clothing.
Hey goof, by "get to work" I meant "take care of whatever I needed to take care of to get myself back together." That is, I meant "work" in the life sense and not in the strict employment sense.

In any event, I'm a lawyer so I could probably work with any physical impairement. A mental impairment would be a bummer. I have long-term disability insurance and health insurance and home insurance and a 401(k) and a taxable investment account and a money market savings account, all of which should cover the situations you described.

You are still missing the larger point though, which is that if one of your imagined catastrophes occur then I'll accept whatever responsibility I have for it occurring (if any) and get down to making my life back to what it is now. I'm not going to get all butt-hurt and post sad-sack woe-is-me pit threads.

Yes I do, Randroid. What I referred to was the oft-repeated bullshit vomited by Ayn Rand fans that one is somehow totally in control of everything that happens in one's life and that if something beyond your control happened, well, tough shit, you should have had the clairvoyance to avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I realize that is not exactly what Ayn Rand's work espouses, it's just the dumbed-down version for kneejerk idiots such as yourself.

First bolded part: you're sure right about that.

Second bolded part: no u!!!!1111!!

Manda JO

01-02-2009, 01:08 PM

I absolutely understand what you are saying and was thinking about this myself last night.

First, I disagree that the target isn't helped. An acerbic and confrontational tone is necessary to get through to some people, which is why it's used in certain settings (see, e.g., boot camp).

Second, I think that even if my manner of speaking turns off the direct target, other people that are reading may get some benefit from it. Maybe they are still formulating their thoughts on these issues and the different policy implications and political philosophies that result, so maybe I'll help them see the light.

Finally, the benefit I get from it is that apparently I'm kind of an asshole and I get my jollies from yelling at idiots. I like to get my RO on everyone once in a while like everyone else, and the types of people I rail against in these threads are apparently my favorite targets. Other people like to rail against bush or "the corporations" or whatever.

I think you are less effective towards others than you think--in fact, I think it's a negative because even when you make valid points, you do it in such a way that a person has to destroy their own dignity and self-respect to listen to your advice, the first premise of which is "you are a lazy fucking piece of shit". This works in boot camp because people can't walk away, and you can destroy their egos and build them back up into the shape you want them to be. However, in the outside world people can and do walk away when their basic worth and dignity are attacked, and they reject everything associated with it--i.e., whatever good insights you may have. Furthermore, other people's more moderated advice is also rejected because it is perceived as being part of an attack.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but from where I sit, you do more harm than good. If it makes you happy to "get your jollies" that way, fine, but don't deny being an asshole, or claim you are only an asshole by other people's definitions. Taking pleasure from causing others pain fits any definition of an asshole.

jayjay

01-02-2009, 01:13 PM

To you people, I am proud to call myself a jerkish asshole.

Too late. We got there first.

Ayn Rand was a hateful, poisonous human being with a hateful, poisonous worldview. I have neither sympathy nor compassion for people who have no sympathy or compassion. Objectivism is an objective evil.

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 01:19 PM

I think you are less effective towards others than you think--in fact, I think it's a negative because even when you make valid points, you do it in such a way that a person has to destroy their own dignity and self-respect to listen to your advice, the first premise of which is "you are a lazy fucking piece of shit". This works in boot camp because people can't walk away, and you can destroy their egos and build them back up into the shape you want them to be. However, in the outside world people can and do walk away when their basic worth and dignity are attacked, and they reject everything associated with it--i.e., whatever good insights you may have. Furthermore, other people's more moderated advice is also rejected because it is perceived as being part of an attack.
Did you read this whole thread? I think Blalron's posts refute the above.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but from where I sit, you do more harm than good. If it makes you happy to "get your jollies" that way, fine, but don't deny being an asshole, or claim you are only an asshole by other people's definitions. Taking pleasure from causing others pain fits any definition of an asshole.

OK.

Rand Rover

01-02-2009, 01:21 PM

Too late. We got there first.

Ayn Rand was a hateful, poisonous human being with a hateful, poisonous worldview. I have neither sympathy nor compassion for people who have no sympathy or compassion. Objectivism is an objective evil.

Just curious--which of Ayn's books have you read?

Manda JO

01-02-2009, 01:23 PM

Did you read this whole thread? I think Blalron's posts refute the above.

He's barely posted. It's hard to say what advice he's taking or rejecting. Mostly what you've done is made this thread about the abstract idea of personal responsibility instead of a place where people talk about concrete ways he can improve his situation.

jayjay

01-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Just curious--which of Ayn's books have you read?

:smack:

You're right! I totally forgot to add "criminally boring author" to that list.

Bricker

01-02-2009, 01:42 PM

Oh, and Bricker, just fucking give it a rest. I don't know why you're getting an obession with this supposed "lie" but it's getting pathetic. Everyone else seems to understand what I said, what the fuck is your problem? Nevermind, don't answer that. You're trying to prove you have the bigger dick and you're the better man. Well, as I am a woman you ARE the better man, but that's a pretty low hurdle to clear, isn't it? Congratulations. You've managed to step over a limbo bar.

Well, if everyone else understands it, why don't you lay it out, clearly and explicitly, as you'd explain to an eight-year-old. Because it seems to me that now you're hinting that all along you meant only a hyperbolic point, not a literal one... and you'd prefer that we don't examine too closely how long you defended the literal point.

Let me tell you why I'm obsessed with your lie: because you didn't look for want ads and find "NO, repeat NO" such ads, but you said you did in a thread started by someone who is having real problems in an attempt to garner sympathy for yourself -- sympathy you didn't deserve because you were too clueless or too lazy to look for actual want ads. Now that this lie is exposed, you're hoping to skate by without actually admitting anything explicitly by saying "everyone knows what I meant."

Q.E.D.

01-02-2009, 01:49 PM

You're right! I totally forgot to add "criminally boring author" to that list.

Tell me about it. I couldn't even get through the first couple chapters of Fountainhead before I gave up in exasperation and tossed the book away.

Broomstick

01-02-2009, 02:05 PM

Well, if everyone else understands it, why don't you lay it out, clearly and explicitly
Since everyone but you understands that is not necessary. I'm sorry if you are either having a reading comprehension problem or are too stupid to get it. It puzzles me that you are still seeking some odd sort of "brownie point" with this. What a sad life you must lead to spend so much effort on attacking someone in an internet thread.

Broomstick

01-02-2009, 02:19 PM

Hey goof, by "get to work" I meant "take care of whatever I needed to take care of to get myself back together." That is, I meant "work" in the life sense and not in the strict employment sense.
Nice backpedal there. Move the goalposts often in life? This thread started with "work" in the employment sense. If you meant it in the "life sense" you should have been explicit. Please take responsibility for your sloppy wording.

I have long-term disability insurance and health insurance and home insurance and a 401(k) and a taxable investment account and a money market savings account, all of which should cover the situations you described.
So tell us - how is that 401(k) doing? Not so well this year? Guess you should have made better stock decisions. Your fault if you lost money, right, and not the fault of mis-management in any company or on Wall Street, right?

Your home insurance - does it cover flooding? Most don't. I have neighbors right now who are homeless and, despite homeowners insurance, ain't getting jackshit because flooding isn't covered and flooding is what destroyed everything they owned.

How good is your disability and health insurance, really? Does it cover in-home care? Kinda sucks if it doesn't, and damn hard to work from a nursing home if you're crippled up.

You are still missing the larger point though, which is that if one of your imagined catastrophes occur then I'll accept whatever responsibility I have for it occurring (if any) and get down to making my life back to what it is now.
YOU miss two points here.

1) The occurrences I listed are by and large NOT the victims fault. Your "I'll accept whatever responsibility I have" is just an example of your overwhelming blame-the-victim mindset and the "(if any)" is a weak modifier at best. Your first assumption is ALWAYS the victim is at fault regardless of situation.

2) After most of those occurrences, whether or not you're responsible before or after, your life will never be the same. Never. You will, through no fault of your own, be at permanent disadvantage or at least decades-long.

You speak from a hubris that can only be born of relative wealth and your so far good luck.

jsgoddess

01-02-2009, 02:21 PM

I don't have a lot of specific job hunting advice, but I have some general job application advice for anyone who's interested.

When there are lots of applications, it ends up being a matter of "let's find anything we can to toss applications to make this pile more manageable." You have to try to keep that from happening to your application, and to any callbacks. I know some things simply aren't under your control, so these won't all be useful to everyone.

1. Spell things right.

2. Fill out everything. If you have a resume, don't just mark on the application that the info is on the resume even if it is. That makes an extra step for the person looking over the application. Make everything as easy and clear as possible. Don't leave things blank unless it's absolutely imperative.

3. Make sure the contact information is actually a way to contact you. If it's not your home, make sure that anyone answering the phone knows what's going on and won't be a doofus if the workplace calls to set up an interview. There are few things more offputting than being annoyed when you're trying to call to set up an interview.

4. Improve your telephone manners. Don't grunt or say "Yeah" or answer the phone with a "What" or otherwise act like a complete fucking moron on the phone. If it's your own phone, try to be the person who answers and answer with a "Hello, this is <firstname>." If someone else will be answering, school them on how to answer the damned phone. Be a professional even if the job is beneath you. (If I sound annoyed it's because of too many conversations where it was like running a damned gauntlet just to get the applicant on the phone.) If you are calling the workplace, treat everyone with respect. Don't grunt or mumble. Say please and thank you and hello. Say "Can I speak with X please?" Don't say "X there?"

5. In a related point, the person who is answering the phone might have more input into the hiring decision than you know. The person at the front desk might. Treat people pleasantly. Don't wear too much cologne or perfume (none is best). Don't gross people out. Don't invade their space. Don't touch them! Don't tell them how close you live. Don't tell them how often you've been past the location but never knew they were there. DON'T TOUCH THEM. Don't bring your kids unless it is absolutely necessary that you do and even if it's absolutely necessary, think again. Do not give complicated instructions for how someone should reach you. Brush your teeth. Don't drink before going in. Use your indoor voice. If someone is planning on doing interviews that day, the person at the desk will let you know. Pushing that you have to be interviewed that day now now now now won't impress anyone.

6. Follow the instructions on the ad. If it says apply in person, don't mail an application. If it says mail an application, don't call.

7. Before applying, in fact, don't call unless you need to apply in person and using all of your wiles you are unable to find directions any other way. Don't call just to ask about the job. Asking if it's still available is fine, but calling and saying, "Tell me about the job opening" is not going to do anything for you. Having someone else call on your behalf is really really not going to do anything for you.

8. Call after applying just once. Call after an interview just once unless you're given reason to think there's a specific reason to call again. When you apply in person, ask how long they maintain their applications for any newly opening positions. Ask if you should call if ever there's a change or to remind them you're still interested. At my workplace, we keep all applications for a year, and if you call after a couple of months to say you're still interested, we'll pop that application up to the front again. If you change phone numbers, etc. after applying we want to know.

I hope some of this is useful. I know a lot of it is plain sense, but you'd be amazed.