Do beautiful women have an easier time in life?

[Agent Foxtrot]

I visited my Dad last Friday, and he and I have had an ongoing discussion for years now about whether highly attractive women generally have an easier time getting through life because people (men in particular, but women too) are willing to go the extra mile for them or cut them a break (such as on a speeding ticket). I just wanted to get an idea of what the SDMB thinks. Is this true? Do highly attractive men get a break, too? What do you think?

[Sunspace]

Well, speaking as a Highly Attractive Person, I Oops, sorry. Wishful thinking.

I think that gorgeous people have an easier time starting out in life. Only starting out, though. Sooner or later they will run into a situation where looks are not an advantage, and then they're in trouble if they don't have anything else to go on.

[RickJay]

I visited my Dad last Friday, and he and I have had an ongoing discussion for years now about whether highly attractive women generally have an easier time getting through life because people (men in particular, but women too) are willing to go the extra mile for them or cut them a break (such as on a speeding ticket). I just wanted to get an idea of what the SDMB thinks. Is this true? Do highly attractive men get a break, too? What do you think?
Absent an immediate cite, I've read a dozen or more stories on studies done that show that attractive people - male or female - are strongly favouted, often unconsciously, by others.

It's an old joke that to be a CEO of a big corporation you have to be tall and have good hair, but the joke has a lot of truth to it.

[DianaG]

Exceptionally good-looking people, male or female, are generally treated better than less good-looking people.

The good news is, no one stays pretty forever.

[Cat Fight]

There was a thread about this a few months back. It took a while, but some of us finally weighed in;)

I think there are the little things, like getting good service or compliments, but I'm not sure they're setting anyone up for life. Plus there's the other side of the coin, the idea that any accomplishments of a beautiful woman must be due to her looks rather than her talent. The truth is, this may be partly true, through no fault of her own. She may have gotten her first job, her first rung on the ladder, because the boss wanted to sleep with her. But that doesn't mean she didn't work just as hard, and it doesn't mean it's something she thinks of, consciously. Just as most caucasians in clean clothes don't think 'Wow, I'm so glad that cop believed my side of the story after that car accident and I didn't get followed around that store today.'

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Yep. Pretty people do get breaks. Pretty people that may not be geniuses (*gasp!*) also hang around a lot more than regular/ugly folk do.

[sandra_nz]

Exceptionally good-looking people, male or female, are generally treated better than less good-looking people.

The good news is, no one stays pretty forever.

I'd add to this that average- and below average-looking people often have to work harder to develop a winning personality in order to compensate for their less than gorgeous looks.*

The good news is, a winning personality is forever. :)

*I have no cite for this, other than personal observation, so feel free to prove me wrong!

[msmith537]

It's an old joke that to be a CEO of a big corporation you have to be tall and have good hair, but the joke has a lot of truth to it.

Pointy Haired Boss: Ah..his hair should silver nicely.



I think being attractive is like having money or being smart. You take for granted problems that less attractive (or less wealthy or less intelligent) people have, but you have a whole set of new problems that they can't comprehend or relate to. Mo' money, mo' problems so to speak.

Certainly being attractive offers many advantages. It's easier to make friends or find dates simply because people would rather be around better looking people. On the other hand, those relationships can be more superficial. An attractive young woman can probably sleep with a lot of guys if she wants. But those guys might be the sort of guys who can get any girl they want and don't really care about them.

Also, I've seen the effect an attractive woman has on an office full of otherwise ordinary people. While they turn a lot of heads, they are often not taken seriously or simply viewed as window dressing. Often it is assumed that she slept her way to wherever she is.

Also consider an unattractive person who is quiet and withdrawn is considered "shy". An attractive person who is quiet and withdrawn is often thought of as "stuck up".

[F. U. Shakespeare]

Joel Achenbach (who used to write the "Why Things Are" column in the Washington Post) once cited a study which concluded that the impact of being very attractive was different for men and women, but still noticeable:

It ranked people from 1 (unattractive) to 7 (very attractive) and examined correlation between attractiveness and (what they defined as) success.

The conclusion: for women, there was a direct correlation between attractiveness and success. On average, 7's did better than 6's; 6's did better than 5's; etc.

For men, there was NO correlation except for the very highest. 7's did better than everyone else, but 6's no better than 5's, etc.

So, a guy has to be movie-star handsome for it to make him more successful; anything less is irrelevant. But a women's success is more directly influenced by her attractiveness. So the study concluded.

[F. U. Shakespeare]

Also, I've seen the effect an attractive woman has on an office full of otherwise ordinary people. While they turn a lot of heads, they are often not taken seriously or simply viewed as window dressing. Often it is assumed that she slept her way to wherever she is.

Also consider an unattractive person who is quiet and withdrawn is considered "shy". An attractive person who is quiet and withdrawn is often thought of as "stuck up".My cousin married a woman who had been a part-time fashion model who was very studious and shy. She entered a profession (some researchy medical field) where, she swore, it worked against her to be noticed and thought attractive. At work, she deliberately dressed and groomed herself to look nerdy, and claimed that it helped her career.

[Gestalt]

You know, there's an episode of South Park (Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society), where one character, Bebe, gets tiny little niblets of boobs, as is befitting a 9 year old. Suddenly, all the boys who once ignored her begin to think she's really smart, funny, interesting, etc. I don't think they ever actually called her hot, though.

I have found this to be true of how hot women are treated by men, in my experience. A very attractive woman gets absurds amount of attention is credited with a lot of positive attributes that wouldn't be credited to a less attractive woman.

The downside is that I think average looking women tend to assume that very attractive women lack certain attributes (intelligence, charisma, wittiness) and chalk up all their success to their looks.

[bufftabby]

At work, she deliberately dressed and groomed herself to look nerdy, and claimed that it helped her career.

Ah, yes, of course, that's what I've been doing. ;)

I do think that people tend to be nicer to you the more attractive you are. I can range from looking pretty dumpy to pretty cute, depending on how much effort I put into my looks in a day, and I feel like people respond better when I look better.

[Gestalt]

Oooh, oooh, I have another somewhat relevant personal anecdote that is similar to bufftabby's

Up until about 6 months ago, I basically considered myself fat and unattractive, and never really put any effort into my appearance. Around that time I started to hang out with a group of friends that loved to go out to bars and clubs and did so about 2-3x/wk. So, I realized that I would have to put work into the appearance front. I lost quite a bit of weight, new haircut, dermatologist visit, and started observing other trendy women to decide what to wear when I go out.

Anyways, so a couple of weeks ago my friend had a huge birthday bash, and I met some of her male friends whom I hadn't seen for about 6 months. Some of them barely remembered me, and others didn't at all, but a few who barely acknowledged me the first time we met paid quite a bit of attention to me this time around.

So yes, how a woman looks certainly determines how much attention men pay to her. Although that's probably not really all that controversial, and only tangentially addresses the OP. Nevertheless, I thought it might be interesting.

[Kalhoun]

Exceptionally good-looking people, male or female, are generally treated better than less good-looking people.

The good news is, no one stays pretty forever.

I saw an experiment on this, and without fail, the good looking person was assisted immediately when they asked for directions. The less attractive person got half answers or was completely dismissed. It's the sad truth.

[CalD]

I'd say there are definitely some advantages to being a good looking woman, but there are also some definite disadvantages.

The main advantage is that a lot of men (and some women) will go the extra mile for you, and favour you in certain situations.

One negative is the types of people you will attract, as well as the types of people you will miss out on attracting.

On the balance, I'd say it's better to be a reasonable/regular looking woman than be at an attractive/unattractive extreme.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Also, Is water wet?

[cormac262]

"Do beautiful women have an easier time in life?" for women I think this is absolutely true. I happened to catch a TV show where they took identical, very attractive twins and put a fat suit and makeup on one of them. They followed them through everyday activities: shopping, getting on subways, asking for help. And the non-fatsuit twin was always given much more attention. And in many instances, the fatsuit twin was completely ignored. It was kind of sad, but it certainly showed that there is an effect.

Not sure if the same applies to men, though. For most things men seem to be more graded by accomplishment, not just appearance. But for certain positions (like sales), it seems that appearance definitely is favored.

[jali]

The most beautiful girl I've ever met is one of the most insecure people I know.

She's worried that her husband only loves her because of her looks - she's funny, very nice, and very smart, but he only compliments her looks. She's afraid of getting into an accident because she wonders if her husband will leave her for a better looking woman if she's scarred.

Some women look at her and just see "competition" although she doesn't have designs on anyone else's man. I've seen the look on some women's faces: almost anger that she's there.

One of my friends actually asked me how I felt when we hung out (she didn't think any guys would talk to me if the beauty were around).

She has few female friends and that's sad because she's a wonderful person.

[Shirley Ujest]

This is a usual discussion amongst my social group and our conclusion is that Girls That STart Out As Very Pretty-Fucking Gorgeous really coast by in life on their looks and minimum amount of talent or smarts.

Every one of the women we base this on who are Good Looking to Fucking Hot are trainwrecks in their personal life. It is only two women we have based it on, but you should see just how pretty they are. It makes us want to go full-lesbian on them, until we realize they are headcases. Granted this is a very small section of femalehood to paint a wide brush, but as we have shared our tiny findings with others and have heard similar stories.

I think they ( women and men) get use to the attention and the fawning and the catering and eventually coast by on that for decades. Men can go longer if they don't pork out, women peak in their late 30's and by mid 40's, it is over because society has no use for a woman in her 40's or older.

Nicole Kidman, I feel, is a prime example of Gorgeous to look at, but doesn't offer much. ( Maybe she was controlled too much by Xenu, she seems a little more interesting now that she married Keith Urban, but her movies still suck.)

[Dangerosa]

My cousin married a woman who had been a part-time fashion model who was very studious and shy. She entered a profession (some researchy medical field) where, she swore, it worked against her to be noticed and thought attractive. At work, she deliberately dressed and groomed herself to look nerdy, and claimed that it helped her career.

Which is the advantage women get - a good looking woman can be stunning in the right clothes and makeup - and "passable" in frumpier clothes.

And Helen Mirren may not be stunning forever, but she is a woman who has been stunning for far past middle age. As women age, beauty changes, but there are a lot of older women who are still attractive. And attractive enough to change your perceptions of them and reactions to them.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

What an unmitigated load of crap this is!

I am an extremely handsome man and it hasn't done shit for me.

It must be my modesty...

[F. U. Shakespeare]

Not sure if the same applies to men, though. For most things men seem to be more graded by accomplishment, not just appearance. But for certain positions (like sales), it seems that appearance definitely is favored.IMO, men are judged on whether they look like the part in life they're trying to play, as opposed to how attractive they are.

Consider two men who want to be construction supervisors. One looks like Richard Boone. The other, like Woody Allen. The first one will likely have a much easier time getting hired, getting construction workers to follow his orders, etc. Not because he's more attractive than the Woody Allen guy. But because he looks the part. And I would imagine the Richard Boone guy might have more trouble than Woody being taken seriously in some jobs that people associate with sensitivity and smarts (Concert violinist? Theoretical physicist?)

I've had numerous 'spirited' discussions with women who contend that a man's looks don't matter, while a woman's do. I would submit that a man's looks matter in different ways than a woman's do.

Although I suppose, if the study I quoted above is sound, the overall effect of looks on success is still greater for a woman.

[CookingWithGas]

I have not been able to find a cite but I've read about a study where the subjects were shown pictures of men and women and asked to describe certain characteristics just by looking at the photos. People who were described as attractive also tended to be perceived as more intelligent, and nicer.

[Shagnasty]

If very attractive men got special perks, I wouldn't have to spend $3 a year to keep my charter membership status here.

[Kalhoun]

One of my friends actually asked me how I felt when we hung out (she didn't think any guys would talk to me if the beauty were around).



Are you shitting me? That's unbelievable.

[Cat Whisperer]

I would say beautiful women have an easier time in most areas of life for the first part of their lives, then they have a harder time once their looks go, because they lose something they have taken for granted. Us average-looking women don't have the same distance to fall when we get older and greyer and wrinklier, so we have an easier time of it later in life.

[Dread Pirate Jimbo]

I'm sure I heard about a study last year that definitively found that attractive people (men and women) are more likely to get hired and promoted than their less attractive counterparts, irrespective of other factors such as work ethic, skills or smarts. What I don't recall is where I saw that report. Must go looking...

Beyond that, I've heard numerous stories of attractive people getting warnings instead of traffic tickets, getting other people to do their work for them, finding more and better dating opportunities, etc. No doubt some of this can be attributed to urban legend, but when you start to add up the sheer volume of anecdotes, it does seem to point towards a bias in favor of the beautiful people.

[Ro Carter]

In general, I would say attractive women have an easier time in life until they start "loosing their looks", particularly while still in schooling. They would be teased less, and have automatic invites into more social groups/events. However, if said female tries to enter a male-dominated or "serious" field, she will find herself at a disadvantage.

Just being female generally means that one would need to work a little harder to be taken seriously, and the amount of effort that needs to put into actually getting respect from colleagues increases in direct correlation with increased attractiveness or even "girly"-ness.

Basically, I'd say being attractive would help more in school/college years than in the working world.

[control-z]

Yes, beautiful people have an easier time. Especially if they have a friendly personality to go with their looks.

Of course beautiful women also get dumbfounded men and propositions to deal with as well.

[Sitnam]

If they want to be taken seriously at their career no, but otherwise hell yes.

[Jaglavak]

I work with a woman who is about 5 foot tall & 110 lb of pure sex. On top of that she has the gall to be smart, nice, funny, and interesting.

I'd say she has about the most sensitive personal security radar I've ever seen. Constantly aware of people and situations that normally pass me by without a ripple. I think nothing of paying cash at a gas station at midnight. She wouldn't even be there at all.

It never occured to me before, but life must be difficult in a lot of ways for an attractive tiny person.

[AllWalker]

I've heard psychologists say that women with large breasts - as in really large breasts - find life harder, partly because of the, you know, extra baggage, but because other people don't take them as seriously.

i've also heard studies where teachers were shown pictures of students along with a brief summary of their interests/activities. The teachers were then asked to describe the student. Identical descriptions but with different pictures yielded different summaries - more attractive children were rated as better behaved, more athletic, smarter, etc.

So there. Ladies, if you want to succeed get breast reduction surgery and a face lift, I suppose.

[Manda JO]

I am pulling this totally out of thin air, but from my experience, I think you have to discriminate between "attractive" and "sexy". Some people are just attractive their whole life., from babyhood on: they are simply beautiful, both in their features and in their graceful, friendly body language. Other people blossom into "sexy" when they hit puberty--it's not their amazingly symmetrical face and winning smile that does it, it's the particular combination of secondary sex characteristics they develop.

I think these two categories have really different effects on people: the first type, the "attractive" ones, really do benefit from their innate charisma--even as small children, they simply get loved more because they know how to be lovable. People are moved to hug them and pet them and give them gifts because they instinctively positively reinforce this behavior with hugs and smiles of their own. On the other hand, the ones that wake up one day as sex objects often have more trouble: for one thing, women that are sexy but not otherwise attractive tend to be objects of scorn or at least seen as insignificant. Secondly, these sorts of women are often uncomfortable with their own attractiveness: it seems external, imposed, inauthentic. They may feel guilty about the attention they receive. These are also the sort of looks that collapse rather suddenly as they age.

[Sonnenstrahl]

From my (admittedly limited, heterosexual female) experience, natural beauty isn't so much important as a pleasant appearance and genuine confidence, combined with social skills. A friend of mine, I think I can say objectively, ticks most of the boxes in the checklist of what our society would call attractive, but she's introverted, quite shy and not at all interested in fashion, and she usually seems to go under most people's radar.

I also don't think that physical attractiveness is necessarily a hindrance to be taken seriously professionally, although I wouldn't be at all surprised if large breasts were, as AllWalker says. I know two women who are unusually attractive, and are also intelligent, friendly, well-spoken, and supremely confident. While I've had a slightly negative reaction to each of them (I'm jealous and assume they look down on me) and I wouldn't be surprised if many women who are their peers share that, they each seem to get along just fine. One is a PhD student and the other is in law school, and whenever we've worked together, people have responded very well to both of them, and better than to me.

I do think their confidence is the defining trait, however, and that's probably also partly why everyone thinks of them as so attractive.

ETA: Or I could have just left it to MandaJO. These women are both attractive, rather than sexy, according to her distinction, and it certainly helps them in many aspects of life.

[Jennyrosity]

I do think their confidence is the defining trait, however, and that's probably also partly why everyone thinks of them as so attractive.


Or are they confident because being attractive has allowed them to become so? I don't think I'm a beauty, but most people do regard me as very attractive. I'm also very confident in most situations - but then, I've never had a reason not to be, because people generally react positively to me from the get-go.

That's not to say I've had an easy life, far from it. But I do think the way I look, and the effort I make with my appearance (I'm generally always well-dressed and well-groomed) has given me certain advantages.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

This has come up on here before, and I still have to wonder how this is true because we all have different ideas of what we consider attractive. I guess I just don't buy it.

[Influential Panda]

My ex-girlfriend was beautiful. No joke, a perfect ten smoking hot, top five most beautiful women I have ever seen in my entire life. Tall, thin, brunette. Amazing in bed and a massage therapist. Part-time model. Do not doubt for a second that this woman is everything a man could ask for.

She had it easy for a lot of her life. She was making tens of thousands of dollars modeling as a thirteen year old girl. She always had men lavishing expensive gifts on her. Men she explicitly told she had no interest in: they didn't care. Come ride on my sailboat, buy yourself $10,000 of clothes on my credit card. Why yes, I'll be your lawyer pro bono. God you're hot. Hi, I'm the owner of this restaurant. Dinner's on me.

So in those respects, yes, she certainly had an easy life.

Being so beautiful, however, meant she was vulnerable to the most fucked up sociopaths. Liars, cheats. Men who will do anything to sleep with her. By the age of 24, when I met her, she had been raped by three different people. Her boss and a random stranger were the first two. The third was a man she dated for nearly a year until she found out that he had been slipping her rufies and fucking her unconscious body nearly every night. I love you, honey. One man, who eventually became the father of her child, was physically and mentally abusive.

It fucked her up. By the time I met her, she could hardly trust anyone. I was amazed at how strong she was, with how she handled it, but still she put everyone around her through constant tests to make sure they were true to their word.

Would I like strangers giving me lots of presents, offering me opportunities I never dreamed of? Of course. But I wouldn't trade places with her for anything in the world.

[Rigamarole]

If they want to be taken seriously at their career no, but otherwise hell yes.

I'd agree. I had a manager once who was a blazing, smoking hot female. She acted damn hard-edge - she was decisive, commanding, and didn't take shit from anyone. I respected her for that, and I felt like she worked extra hard at it because if she hadn't it would have been too easy for others to write her off as a hot but useless fixture in the workplace.

She still had a more personable, even feminine side she occasionally let show in very metered doses, which made her likable and human without undermining her authority. I think she handled her hotness pretty well, and it seemed like more of a personal challenge for her than it was a blessing. I'm sure in her social life though it had helped her out more than once or twice. ;)

[Sonnenstrahl]

Or are they confident because being attractive has allowed them to become so? I don't think I'm a beauty, but most people do regard me as very attractive. I'm also very confident in most situations - but then, I've never had a reason not to be, because people generally react positively to me from the get-go.

That's not to say I've had an easy life, far from it. But I do think the way I look, and the effort I make with my appearance (I'm generally always well-dressed and well-groomed) has given me certain advantages.

Yeah, I think the two are so intertwined it's impossible to tell which is the real root cause. I see many women who, when you look closely, are not that classically beautiful, but project so much confidence that you don't notice they're not. But that only goes so far - I don't know how I could persuade people that I look great, with my dumpy build, thin and frizzy hair, bad skin, and weird face-distorting glasses. :)

[Freudian Slit]

So in those respects, yes, she certainly had an easy life.

Being so beautiful, however, meant she was vulnerable to the most fucked up sociopaths. Liars, cheats. Men who will do anything to sleep with her. By the age of 24, when I met her, she had been raped by three different people.

But does that have anything to do with being beautiful? Lots of people, regardless of looks, tend to be victims of sexual assault/rape. Couldn't the fact that it happened so much be related to the fact that she projected something (insecurity?) that assailants picked up on? I remember someone saying something like that in another thread about people who are victims of rape/assault multiple times. I, and a lot of people I know, have had bad sexual experiences, but how does one know if it's because of physical attraction, or just bad luck, or what?

It never occured to me before, but life must be difficult in a lot of ways for an attractive tiny person.

A friend of mine and I were once having a discussion about rape and sexual assault, and he ended up by saying that he would be a lot more nervous/afraid if he were me (I'm also really a tiny female), but somehow I take stuff like that for granted. That is, maybe I have a lot less commonsense than I should...I'd also think nothing of doing that at midnight. Not that I drive...but I tend to hang out alone after midnight a lot.

[Noel Prosequi]

I think Panda's point is well made. A burden that, IMHExperience, beautiful women have to bear is constantly having to deal with tools who pursue them, often inappropriately. Bosses, randoms, pick-up artists, stalkers, the lot. Beautiful women get to see the dark side of men that men rarely see. A CEO's golfing mates will never see him drunk trying it on with his hot PA/intern.

The constant attention based solely on looks can be very confidence-sapping, to the point where many pretty women I have known professionally come across initially as surly, because they are defensive - they don't want to act in any way that might be miscontrued.

While some people might find the attention confidence building, many beautiful women come to suspect that the attention is only superficial and they can't be sure whether any feedback is honest. Like the rich guy who is flattered all the time to the point where he can't be sure any woman who shows interest isn't just after the bucks.

All that said, on balance, I guess life is better when you're attractive, but the downside is considerable.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>
Basically, I'd say being attractive would help more in school/college years than in the working world.
It seems that attractiveness is important in the working world, too - both to get you hired and to make more money (one example of a study here (http://www.docshop.com/2007/11/06/attractive-people-really-do-make-more-money/)).

[Sunspace]

The constant attention based solely on looks can be very confidence-sapping, to the point where many pretty women I have known professionally come across initially as surly, because they are defensive - they don't want to act in any way that might be miscontrued.And then there are the people who have little to do with the gorgeous, because they think that the gorgeous are 'too far out of their league', or because they react badly to the defensive surliness or hard edge that the gorgeous project, or even because they know that the gorgeous get hit on incessantly and so they go the other way and have as little to do with them as possible. Either way, the gorgeousness distorts what could have been a perfectly-decent human interaction.

There are so many advantages to being anonymous and unremarkable.

[placebo]

I saw this stupid talk show once about the hardships of the beautiful. Models and actresses documenting the horrors of their daily lives for the benefit of the less telegenic. The unwanted attention, the jealousy, the constant struggle to be taken seriously in the workplace: all laid bare for the world to roll their eyes at. But when the host asked if any of them had ever wished – if only for a moment – to become less attractive, there was only silence.

[msmith537]

Basically, I'd say being attractive would help more in school/college years than in the working world.

Yes and no.

It can get them noticed or hired, but it can also get them a lot of unwanted attention.

One time, after a company happy hour, a very attractive friend of mine in my last job was telling me about how the senior management used to hit on all the young 20 something women in the office. They would do stuff like offer to share a taxi with them (or course going to wherever the girl was going). As if on cue, this one D-bag director (same level as me) shows up and pulls out the very same bad pickup routine.

[lavenderviolet]

It fucked her up. By the time I met her, she could hardly trust anyone. I was amazed at how strong she was, with how she handled it, but still she put everyone around her through constant tests to make sure they were true to their word.
Would I like strangers giving me lots of presents, offering me opportunities I never dreamed of? Of course. But I wouldn't trade places with her for anything in the world.
This is also what I have noticed for the women I know who are beautiful enough to get noticed. They may get some superficial bonuses from it, but they also have to deal with a lot of very inappropriate, creepy, and frightening behavior from men too.
I wouldn't trade places with them. Yes, being unattractive may cause you to be overlooked or treated insensitively (I have had experiences where I felt like I was treated badly because of my looks), but I can't think of any situation where fat or unattractive people are exposed to special dangers because of people's reactions to their looks the way that the strikingly beautiful are.

I think in many situations, being "A bit above average" is better than being at the far extreme. I think a person who is a little brighter than the average person might fare better in life than someone who is a total intellectual egghead that might have a hard time relating to others. I also think that having enough wealth to cover your bills and have some modest fun with is probably happier than being extravagantly wealthy and being subject to people trying to manipulate you to get hand-outs, targeting you for theft, etc. So, if I had to pick, I'd rather be a 7/10 than a 10/10. ;)

[placebo]

I can't think of any situation where fat or unattractive people are exposed to special dangers because of people's reactions to their looks the way that the strikingly beautiful are.
Ever heard of bullying?

[msmith537]

I think in many situations, being "A bit above average" is better than being at the far extreme. I think a person who is a little brighter than the average person might fare better in life than someone who is a total intellectual egghead that might have a hard time relating to others. I also think that having enough wealth to cover your bills and have some modest fun with is probably happier than being extravagantly wealthy and being subject to people trying to manipulate you to get hand-outs, targeting you for theft, etc. So, if I had to pick, I'd rather be a 7/10 than a 10/10. ;)

It's kind of the old argument. Is it better to be exceptional but always having to deal with the social and other pressures, or just be mediocre and just have a nice simple life with your mediocre friends doing whatever it is they do?

[Vox Imperatoris]

It's kind of the old argument. Is it better to be exceptional but always having to deal with the social and other pressures, or just be mediocre and just have a nice simple life with your mediocre friends doing whatever it is they do?

Oh, it's much better to be exceptional (-ly good). People that think otherwise are just sour-graping.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

[F. U. Shakespeare]

Another factor is a matter of balance. If a person is exceptionally gifted in something, but doesn't have sufficient gifts or skills in other areas of life to manage those gifts, they will probably be less happy than a person who is average at everything.

Examples range from polymath William James Sidis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James_Sidis) to porn star John Holmes (when's the last time you heard THOSE two names in the same sentence?), and include countless musical and artistic geniuses.

So I would imagine a stunningly beautiful woman who didn't have enough emotional intelligence to distance people properly might be victimized as some have described above. But good social skills might allow her to do much better in life (and be happier than) than average.

[Sitnam]

Here a question tangentially related to the OP:

If it's taken as a given that better looking people are rewarded more for less effort can it be concluded that taken as a whole better looking people are dumber?

Perhaps that's truly where the lack of respect for beautiful women in careers originates, perhaps the above question is true, perhaps not, but people believe it anyway.

[DianaG]

People mostly believe it because it makes them feel better about themselves.

[Maeglin]

Here a question tangentially related to the OP:

If it's taken as a given that better looking people are rewarded more for less effort can it be concluded that taken as a whole better looking people are dumber?

Perhaps that's truly where the lack of respect for beautiful women in careers originates, perhaps the above question is true, perhaps not, but people believe it anyway.

Dumber than what?

It cannot be concluded that better looking people are less intelligent. But if being both very good looking and very intelligent are highly improbable, it is even more improbable to be both good looking and intelligent. The reverse is also true: barring defect, it is highly improbable to be both extremely ugly and extremely intellectually deficient.

[ultrafilter]

Actually, there's a reasonable theory that attractiveness and intelligence go hand-in-hand:

Looks and smarts are both highly heritable.
All else being equal, men prefer beautiful women, and women prefer successful men.
Smarter men are more likely to be successful than dumber men.
Therefore, smart men will tend to mate with beautiful women, and their children will be beautiful and smart.

I wish I could remember who came up with this.

[Maeglin]

Actually, there's a reasonable theory that attractiveness and intelligence go hand-in-hand:

Looks and smarts are both highly heritable.
All else being equal, men prefer beautiful women, and women prefer successful men.
Smarter men are more likely to be successful than dumber men.
Therefore, smart men will tend to mate with beautiful women, and their children will be beautiful and smart.

I wish I could remember who came up with this.

There is a lot of quibble potential here, not to mention regression towards the mean.

[ultrafilter]

Certainly, and it should be tested to see how well it holds up. But it's not prima facie absurd.

[Maeglin]

Certainly, and it should be tested to see how well it holds up. But it's not prima facie absurd.

Maybe not. But experience tells me that there are many unattractive, yet intelligent and successful men. And many attractive, slow-witted females. Some of them are even married. These aren't even marginal cases. This theory is not clear on how their offspring would turn out, as it seems to assume at least average attractiveness for the males and average intelligence for the females.

[DianaG]

if being both very good looking and very intelligent are highly improbable, it is even more improbable to be both good looking and intelligent
Well that's just silly. Most people are both extremely good looking AND outrageously intelligent. Just ask them!;)

[Maeglin]

Well that's just silly. Most people are both extremely good looking AND outrageously intelligent. Just ask them!;)

And many of them, amazingly enough, seem to hang out on the SDMB.

Whereas I am neither good looking nor intelligent; I do have an enormous penis.

[Unintentionally Blank]

And many of them, amazingly enough, seem to hang out on the SDMB.

Whereas I am neither good looking nor intelligent; I do have an enormous penis.

You're a guy, right?

[mswas]

Well beautiful women have to live under constant scrutiny. They don't have the right to pick their nose like ever, because someone is always staring. Also, there is the fear that people only ever want to fuck you. Which is probably true in many cases.

[Maeglin]

You're a guy, right?

Why yes, yes I am.

[Jennyrosity]

This has come up on here before, and I still have to wonder how this is true because we all have different ideas of what we consider attractive. I guess I just don't buy it.

Except that, in spite of the myriad number of "types" in the world, there are certain characteristics which have been found to be considered attractive nigh-universally. For women, a large hip-to-waist ratio, wide eyes, clear skin, etc - so I don't think we're over-generalising too much to say "attractive people have an easier time of it in some ways"

[Sitnam]

Also, there is the fear that people only ever want to fuck you. Which is probably true in many cases.
It can probably be said that a successful man (i.e. rich) is equivalent to a beautiful women, in that they are never sure of the motivations of the opposite sex.