Ask the widow of an alcoholic

[Scougs]

I'm new round here as a member, but have been an avid lurker for years. I'm having some difficulties coming to terms with what has happened in my life, and thought that sharing it here might be therapeutic.

I'll try and keep it short.

I live in Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1984 I met a wonderful man. I was 20, he was 21. He was gorgeous, funny, sexy, a talented musician with a good job. We moved in together, bought a flat together and married in 1987. Ten wonderful years later he started to suffer mental problems - depression, anxiety, panic attacks. We'd always enjoyed a drink, but he started to drink heavily. By 2002 I was close to leaving him but battled on trying to support him. It didn't work. He lost his job, and his health started to suffer badly. By 2007 he was barely holding down a cleaning job, and was never, ever sober. I have an excellent, well-paid job, which kept him in his bottle of vodka a day habit.

September 2007 and things are getting really bad. I came in one evening to find him so drunk he couldn't stand, and he'd wrecked half the kitchen and pulled off the bedroom curtains. Next day he was too drunk to go to work, so I went to a lawyer and never looked back.

We had a second/holiday home on one of the Scottish islands. He took the easy route, jacked in his job and moved there. I really, really, really hoped he would use this as a new start and get his life in order. I still loved him, but I just couldn't share my life with someone that lived like that. The next year was an endless round of worry and hospital stays, and a lot of liaising between his mother and me as to what he was doing and how his health was.

In November I started divorce proceedings. The papers were sent recorded delivery. He never signed for them. I couldn't get him by phone, so (for the fourth time in a year), sent the police round, expecting him to be in a drunken stupour, or very ill. He wasn't. He was dead on the kitchen floor.

I knew it was coming. But I'm having a very, very hard time dealing with this.

If I can use my experience to help someone in a similar situation, all well and good. If anyone out there has experiences that I might find helpful, please share.

[Neeps]

I am so sorry about your situation. I don't really have any questions to ask, but as my life has been touched far too much by the unpleasantness of alcoholism I thought I would share too. My father is an alcoholic, and my mother is in a very, very similar situation to you (including the living in Edinburgh part).

She separated from my father a year ago, after 37 years of marriage, and many, many ups and downs. Most of the downs were fully due to alcohol. He has been an alcoholic for over 20 years, albeit with a period of sobriety in the middle, and spent most of my childhood permanently drunk. I think until you have lived with someone who is never, ever sober, you can't appreciate the emotional stress of doing so. How my mother held it together, I don't think I will ever know. I have far too many stories to tell of his behaviour during this time, most of them horribly unpleasant.

He is currently living, on his own, in a flat in the New Town. Because of his circumstances, he is now binge drinking. Sober for a week or so, and then paralytic the rest of the time. We never know if he is not answering his phone because he is passed out or because he is dead. So far, just the former, but to be honest, it is just a matter of time. He is not a well man, and seemingly has nothing to live for.

I don't know if this helps you at all, but there are those of us that can appreciate what you are going through. Do you have any support at the moment? Anyone you can talk to about what has happened?

If I can tell you anything else that might help you, please ask. I know my mother is having a very hard time dealing with the separation and with the anxiety surrounding whether or not my dad is alive at any given point in time.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Look into Al-Anon. You'll find many people there who went through just what you did. They'll know how you feel.

Your husband had the disease of alcoholism. Unless it goes into remission, it often ends in premature death. You didn't cause it, you couldn't control it, you couldn't cure it.

[Nava]

No questions here, just a general wave and assorted well-being wishes from Glasgow.

[Scougs]

Your husband had the disease of alcoholism. Unless it goes into remission, it often ends in premature death. You didn't cause it, you couldn't control it, you couldn't cure it.

This is one thing I'm having difficulty with. I really still don't subscribe to the viewpoint of alcoholism as a disease. I find it offensive to people with real diseases, like cancer.

It's an illness, a terrible addiction, but ultimately I have difficulty not viewing it as a lifestyle choice. He was repeatedly offered help and just wouldn't take it. At one point he was hospitalised for seven weeks following a severe gastric bleed and, obviously, never had a drop in all that time. Yet as soon as he was released, despite every promise he made when he was in hospital, he went straight to the pub.

[Moirai]

I was going to type something else, but this is not a thread where we should be debating the disease model of alcoholism.

Being an alcoholic myself, I am so sorry for what you have gone through. I don't know how you "normal" spouses and family members do it. In my drinking years, I wet through people like tissues and wreaked havoc everywhere I went. I'm sober now, but it is something that requires commitment and vigilance and most people don't stick it out.

[twickster]

This is one thing I'm having difficulty with. I really still don't subscribe to the viewpoint of alcoholism as a disease. I find it offensive to people with real diseases, like cancer.

It's an illness, a terrible addiction, but ultimately I have difficulty not viewing it as a lifestyle choice. He was repeatedly offered help and just wouldn't take it. At one point he was hospitalised for seven weeks following a severe gastric bleed and, obviously, never had a drop in all that time. Yet as soon as he was released, despite every promise he made when he was in hospital, he went straight to the pub.

The folks in Al-Anon may be able to help you sort all of this out in a way you can come to terms with.

twicks, yet another recovering alcoholic

[Scougs]

I don't know how you "normal" spouses and family members do it.

That's another one of my issues, I think. I feel like I gave up on him. I reached the point where I couldn't "do it" any more, so I threw him out knowing there was a very real chance he would be dead in a year. Unfortunately, he didn't prove me wrong. And that's something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life.

[Nava]

Scougs, the closest alcoholics in my family are, AFAIK (I think Mom doesn't count, although she shouldn't touch alcohol and does), an aunt and uncle, but I'm one of the many people here who've been in situations of "I have to get away from this person before being with them kills me."

As one of my parish priests put it, "thou shalt not kill" includes the duty to take care of yourself.

[Kalhoun]

That's another one of my issues, I think. I feel like I gave up on him. I reached the point where I couldn't "do it" any more, so I threw him out knowing there was a very real chance he would be dead in a year. Unfortunately, he didn't prove me wrong. And that's something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life.

I'm sorry for your loss. I had a sister in law who was a 1/2 gallon a day vodka drinker. Her husband bought it for her because she threatened to leave the house and find it on her own (booze was the only thing this agoraphobic would leave for). Each time she did this, it ended up worse than if he bought it for her. He felt that at least he could supervise her somewhat if she drank at home.

Her husband stayed with it because he didn't want to give up on her. He stuck it out to the point that she found a boyfriend who moved into their home with them. They tried everything. Rehab (5 or 6 times), AA, Al-Anon, prayer, even a two-week coma didn't convince her that she needed to stop drinking. She died, even though her spouse stuck by her side.

As others have said, only the drinker can stop drinking. No one expects a person's patience and efforts to go on indefinitely. You do what you can until you no longer can. I hope you can find someone to help you sort through your emotions with regard to this unfortunate event. Best of luck to you.

[TVeblen]

That's another one of my issues, I think. I feel like I gave up on him. I reached the point where I couldn't "do it" any more, so I threw him out knowing there was a very real chance he would be dead in a year. Unfortunately, he didn't prove me wrong. And that's something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life.
From another veteran of a drunk ex, don't take on baggage that isn't rightfully yours to carry. Qadgop was quite right: you didn't cause his drinking, you could never control it and you could never cure it. It wasn't a case of 'giving up on him'. You just faced the very hard reality that had absolutely no power or control over the situation.

If it helps, I earnestly paid for my drunk (and cheating) ex through three rounds of in-patient rehab, with extensive follow-up counseling. Though I equally earnestly loathed him by the end, I somehow reasoned that I had to get him sober, or at least somewhat functional, before I could kick him the hell out. No, it didn't make a lick of sense; in fact, it was flat-out stupid, not to mention harmful though it seemed both moral and sensible at the time. He could and did stay drunk because I took care of everything, including him. Why change?

Here's the sad truth about alcholics: nothing is more important that the next drink. People on the outside can offer help but the alcoholic is the ONLY one who can change whether or not they drink.

My ex is still alive, though I don't know how or why. He was diagnosed with pancreatitis years ago, his liver was shot and he's had a cocktail of STDs. He looks (and smells) like week-old roadkill. At one time he was a bright, well educated professional who was notoriously fussy about his appearance. When any of my friends mention seeing him their reaction is always, "I can't believe he's still alive!" Could that steep downward spiral been halted along the way? Damned if I know.

BTW, I smiled grimly at your account of the divorce. It took 3 years for my divorce (after I kicked him out) because my ex wouldn't respond to court notices, show up at hearings, etc. Hey, he didn't want to bother with it. If he thought about it at all, his reaction was to call and demand money for booze as his "settlement". Since I'd supported both of us for years I guess he had reason to think the gravy train would never stop. Finally a judge, bless him, got fed up with runaround and ended the dreary mess.

I guess we're different in that you still loved your husband, or at least remember something about him that was worth loving. That looks to me like a double-edged blessing. Pity and grief for the life he threw away? Yeah, that resonates, as the buzzspeak goes. But only so long as you reject any guilt for the sad fact that he did throw it away. The priest Nava quoted was wise, and absolutely right. Since you never had the slightest power over your husband's choices anyway maybe the most respectful thing you can do now is grant him the responsiblity for his life--and death.

I'm sorry as hell you had to go through all that, Scougs.

[Neeps]

That's another one of my issues, I think. I feel like I gave up on him. I reached the point where I couldn't "do it" any more, so I threw him out knowing there was a very real chance he would be dead in a year. Unfortunately, he didn't prove me wrong. And that's something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life.

My mother is struggling with this exact same issue at the moment. We know that there is nothing we can do to change my father's behaviour, but you still feel responsible if you can't save them from themselves.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The thing I keep reminding myself of, though, is that by getting my dad to leave, we have given him a chance to sort himself out, and we don't get dragged down in the process. We have tried to be supportive before, and none of us benefited. Our lives were made miserable, day after day, and his behaviour didn't change.

Rehab didn't make him change. In-patient and out-patient programmmes didn't help. Alcohol counselling didn't work. Begging and pleading didn't work. Getting picked up on numerous occasions by the police, losing his licence and his job didn't work. Almost killing himself in a car crash, caused by drinking, didn't make a difference. There was nothing else we could do.

You did everything you could. You just did. Just as we did. Your husband did not make it, but it is not your fault. If my dad doesn't make it, I am not sure how I will feel, but I am telling myself now that there is nothing more we could have done, after 20 years, that we hadn't tried before.

It is just a damn fucking waste.

[scout1222]

I do have a question: do you drink?

My dad had several years of heavy drinking that impacted me. I'd say he was a functioning alcoholic. It has made me VERY WARY of drinking, and in my early 20s I found myself out partying and drinking a lot, and could easily see myself spiraling out of control. So I very rarely drink. And I think it was seeing him that made me decide that. So I'm curious if you've been through similar.

[Scougs]

I do have a question: do you drink?



Yes, I do. But I like to think I know the difference between normal, social drinking - a couple of pints in my local pub, a glass of wine with the girls - and sitting necking a bottle of vodka on my own at ten in the morning. I am wary of my own drinking, though, and definitely drink far less than when we were together.

To all the other posters:

Thank you. I now know I made the right decision sharing my story on here. Your kind words, shared experiences and food for thought have been very, very helpful already.

Keep it coming.

[Jayn_Newell]

I do have a question: do you drink?Not to answer for the OP, but my husband and one SIL don't drink a drop that I'm aware of (save for communion wine). The other SIL does drink, but apparently not much. Her roommate said that he usually finishes her drinks for her. He suspects that it's her way of conquering her father's addiction, by proving that she can drink alcohol without going overboard.

Scougs, my heart goes out to you. The damage that an alcoholic does to those around them is heartbreaking. I know that the decision to leave must have been hard, but as I tell my husband, you need to make sure you're taken care of before you can take care of others. Doing what was needed for your own well-being was the best choice you could make.

[Shirley Ujest]

I just wanted to welcome you to our boards and hope you stick around!

[AK84]

Do you have any children? I am so sorry for your loss.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

This is one thing I'm having difficulty with. I really still don't subscribe to the viewpoint of alcoholism as a disease. I find it offensive to people with real diseases, like cancer.
There are many mental/behavioral diseases. Having one such does not diminish people with the more physical diseases. I treat people with both physical and mental diseases.

Having a mental disease often diminishes one's capacity to make rational choices. This does not excuse the behavior, but such behavior is both common and predictable in these disease entities.

[Khadaji]

I have nothing to ask - but wanted to give you my sincere condolences. Nothing I can say will make it easier, so I will just send you supporting thoughts.

[Neeps]

I just wanted to pop back to say that I was having a conversation with my mum about this, and if you would like to email her about this, or maybe even meet up, she would be willing. This is a hard road to walk, and to me, one of the the things that can be invaluable, is being able to talk honestly with someone who has been where you have been. I'm not sure whether this helps or not, but the offer is there.

She lives on the southside, is (a young!) 60 years old, and good company.

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in how you are feeling. Send me a PM if you think it might help.

[Moirai]

Honey, there is nothing you can do for an alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking. Nothing. I would tell you that you did as much as you could, then saved your own life. Be proud of that.

[Scougs]

I go offline for a bit and the kind words just keep on coming. Thanks again everyone.

Yes, I certainly plan to stick around. I've been lurking for soooo long that now I've finally plucked up the courage to dip my toe in, I'll be here for a while, I reckon.

Children? No, thankfully. I've never had any maternal instinct and thankful modern society and technology gives us choices in life. Although in some of my more irrational moments I've thought that maybe if we'd had children, then that would have given him something to be responsible and pull himself together for. But I know in my heart of hearts that's not the case and it would have been more lives affected.

As for the "is it a disease" debate, I do reconcile my own thoughts with the knowledge that nobody would choose to live the way he was living at the end, so there must have been a mental illness behind it.

You guys are great.

[Kalhoun]

My SIL quit for about 6 months after her coma and subsequent hospitalization. Then on Father's Day, she bought a small bottle of booze for her dad...

...and drank it on the way to his house!


I believe that she couldn't stop because she had no sense of self-worth, and therefore, nothing better to fill her time with. It was heartbreaking to watch. She was only 42 when she died.

[PharmBoy]

That's another one of my issues, I think. I feel like I gave up on him. I reached the point where I couldn't "do it" any more, so I threw him out knowing there was a very real chance he would be dead in a year. Unfortunately, he didn't prove me wrong. And that's something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life.

And this is the reason alcoholism is such an evil disease. Alcoholics are terrific at shifting the responsibility to those around them. Listen closely here:IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. You didn't make him drink, and believe me, you could not have stopped him. It was the right thing to do to throw him out if he was making no effort to modify his behavior.

My mother-in-law drank herself to death a few years ago, and my wife was wracked with guilt about it, thinking the same thing that you are, that she did not do enough to help her mom. She went to a grief therapist who soon helped her to see that the responsibility for drinking or not drinking rests with the alcoholic, not anyone around them. I'd urge you to get some grief counseling as soon as you can.


God bless you
PB

[ivylass]

Since you never had the slightest power over your husband's choices anyway maybe the most respectful thing you can do now is grant him the responsiblity for his life--and death.



Very nicely put.

Most rational humans want to take care of themselves and their loved ones. Mothers will sacrifice for their children, husbands will work overtime to make sure their family is taken care of, etc.

You are a rational human. Your instinct was to help your husband. However, he was not rational. Whether it was a disease or an addiction, the liquor was more important to him than you were.

You're trying to reconcile the guilt, but that's not logical. You were in a relationship with an irrational person who for whatever reason, decided not to get help. You did the only thing you could...since your husband wasn't there for you as a supportive partner, you got out.

[AK84]

You said that his alcoholism started after many years of marriage and after he started suffering from deprerssion. Was he treated for that?

And I just want to add, your posts seem to indicate that you have many regrets. Don't! We all have regrets and wonder where we went wrong. Most of the time what torments the most is the fact that probably we did make errors, but then everyone makes errors in everything. Most often these were unavoidable and no one else could have done better. Don't second guess yourself now. You did everything you could have. He is in peace now. Remember him....... the good times you had. All the best and take care!

[Campion]

I've hesitated to post here, because I don't really have anything useful or helpful to add. My uncle passed away in his apartment a month or so ago, in a situation that sounds very similar to your ex's passing, Scougs. We don't know how long he'd been dead when my aunt found him; but likely a few weeks.

He'd been an alcoholic for years, and had been in and out of treatment a number of times. He also suffered from depression. He cut off contact with my mother (hsi sister) when she told him how concerned she was for his health and well-being. So, now that he's dead, she's doing the "well, maybe if I'd been less confrontational, he'd be alive today" and "maybe if I'd had a welfare check done earlier, he'd be alive." I've tried to get her to see that he was responsible for what happened -- if she'd soft-pedaled her concern, he'd have brushed her off. If she'd gotten a welfare check, he'd have told the cops to fuck off, and gone back to drinking.

I had a long (boozy) talk with my brother after my uncle's death, and my sister too is having a hard time figuring this out as well. We all have our own reasons that this is difficult, but at least we have each other. And maybe that's what's saddest about the whole thing -- at the end, my uncle ignored his wife, his kids, his parents, his siblings, all of us in favor of the bottle.

I don't have any comfort to offer, except maybe it's comfort enough to know that your situation isn't unique, that all over the world people are dealing with the same issues and problems. But I think that's a cold comfort at best.

[Scougs]

You said that his alcoholism started after many years of marriage and after he started suffering from deprerssion. Was he treated for that?

And I just want to add, your posts seem to indicate that you have many regrets. Don't! We all have regrets and wonder where we went wrong. Most of the time what torments the most is the fact that probably we did make errors, but then everyone makes errors in everything. Most often these were unavoidable and no one else could have done better. Don't second guess yourself now. You did everything you could have. He is in peace now. Remember him....... the good times you had. All the best and take care!

Yes, he was treated for depression. Counselling, psychiatrists, medication. But he just didn't seem to..... I don't know...... try.

I do try and remember the good times, but that's pretty painful at the moment because it just reminds me of the wonderful man I lost. It's almost more helpful to remember him lying in a hospital bed, bright yellow and very confused, the last time I saw him alive.

I've hesitated to post here, because I don't really have anything useful or helpful to add. My uncle passed away in his apartment a month or so ago, in a situation that sounds very similar to your ex's passing, Scougs. We don't know how long he'd been dead when my aunt found him; but likely a few weeks.

He'd been an alcoholic for years, and had been in and out of treatment a number of times. He also suffered from depression. He cut off contact with my mother (hsi sister) when she told him how concerned she was for his health and well-being. So, now that he's dead, she's doing the "well, maybe if I'd been less confrontational, he'd be alive today" and "maybe if I'd had a welfare check done earlier, he'd be alive." I've tried to get her to see that he was responsible for what happened -- if she'd soft-pedaled her concern, he'd have brushed her off. If she'd gotten a welfare check, he'd have told the cops to fuck off, and gone back to drinking.

I had a long (boozy) talk with my brother after my uncle's death, and my sister too is having a hard time figuring this out as well. We all have our own reasons that this is difficult, but at least we have each other. And maybe that's what's saddest about the whole thing -- at the end, my uncle ignored his wife, his kids, his parents, his siblings, all of us in favor of the bottle.

I don't have any comfort to offer, except maybe it's comfort enough to know that your situation isn't unique, that all over the world people are dealing with the same issues and problems. But I think that's a cold comfort at best.

Cold comfort it might be, but it's actually very helpful to know how many people have been through the same thing. I also take comfort from the fact that my husband had been dead less than a day, and it was the police that found him rather than a friend or relative. That must have been very tough on your aunt.

[TokyoBayer]

I'm sorry to hear your story. I've got a younger brother who is mentally ill, but refuses to be helped. He's quite possibly bipolor, but has never been offically diagnosed.

He doesn't use drugs or alchol, but is homeless. He's lived off of my mother for years until she finally cut him off last year, and then made it clear again this year that there wouldn't be more money.

He's tried for years to get me to give him money. I had previously offered to pay for counseling or to pay him money if he would volunteer someplace, but he wouldn't do it. He's tried to emotionally blackmail us by threatening suicide and everything else.

He just tried to get money again from me, but I had to tell him no. As long as he's not helping himself, it would just enable him.

It's not an easy thing, and I expect that he'll die on the street sometime, but there isn't anything you can do if the person isn't willing to help themself.

[SiXSwordS]

Like others who have posted, I wish I knew what to say. If I did, it would probably sound very much like what Qadgop and others have said.

In the case of my mother, she hid her drinking so well that when everything fell apart I felt incredibly stupid for not seeing the signs. By the time she was in treatment I was living in another state, but I was living with her when she started drinking again. She had actually gone through treatment when I was very young and I grew up with sober parents.

I found a bottle of wine under her sink and while it seemed odd, I didn't really think about it. Looking back, there were other signs, but she was sober and sponsored others through AA.

So when my mom was on suicide watch after her third trip through inpatient treatment I felt guilty and painfully stupid for not seeing what was going on earlier.

I know it's not the same as your situation but maybe it will help to know that the emotions you're experiencing are common to those dealing with alcoholism and its disastrous effects on families, even when the circumstances are very different.

Reading your posts, I get the sense that you are very capable person and I wish you nothing but the best.

[kushiel]

Once when I went to Al-Alon to try and deal with my dad's drinking, a lady who had multiple alcoholic husbands told me I would end up marrying an alcoholic like my father. I ended up dealing with his drinking by growing up and moving away from home.

Dad drinks when he's lonely. Mom comes up to visit me here, her little vacation, and he inevitably goes on a binge. Ain't that just nice?

[Neeps]

Strangely enough, after you posted your OP, I got a call that my dad was in a very bad way. He had fallen backwards down the stairs in his flat, and was stuck in his bedroom with no way to get food, or open the door. He was, obviously, sore all over and was also hallucinating because of the sudden alcohol detox. He fell on Wednesday evening, and we eventually got to him today and got him to hospital. He looked dreadful. All yellow, and his abdomen is hugely distended. I have never seen him this bad. He can't go back to his flat on his own (physically or mentally), but that means that we are all dragged into this again.

I don't want to hijack your thread, Scougs, but I just wanted to share and this seemed as appropriate a place as any. Any good thoughts would be greatfully appreciated.

[Baron Greenback]

Cold comfort it might be, but it's actually very helpful to know how many people have been through the same thing.

Look after yourself, Scougs, that's the most important thing.

*waves from about fifty miles or so away*

[The Mighty Boosh]

Hi,

Not much to add; as a recovering alkie, I'd just like to add my assurance that you did more than anyone has or had a right to expect. It's commonly said that alcoholics don't really form relationships; they take hostages. It's an unspeakably horrible situation for the friends and family, and the worst thing is that no amount of reason or compassion makes a blind bit of diffrence until the drinker makes his or her own move to control the addiction.

You sound like a warm, caring person; I think your husband was lucky to have you for as long as he did.

[TVeblen]

I have never seen him this bad. He can't go back to his flat on his own (physically or mentally), but that means that we are all dragged into this again.
Damn, so sorry to hear that, Neeps. None of those signs sound good but I'm sure you're plenty aware of that. People have to do what is best in their situation and no stranger on the internet (or anywhere else, for that matter) can make that call for for them. But please consider that you and your mother really can't--cannot--do a damned thing for him, even now. The good folks at the hospital will handle his medical situation. Since he was in the throes of DTs he's probably drugged to the gills anyway to cushion his withdrawal. Even when/if he becomes more aware, let the doctors and counselors advise you on how much contact would be helpful to him or you.

It's very difficult to detach but please consider doing just that, or at least not permitting yourself to be dragged back down into his hell again. It'd be different if you could drag him out of it. Since you can't then the most that can be done is limiting the collateral damage to your family.

My thoughts are with you, and Scougs and Tokyo Player and the others in this thread.

[Moirai]

It's very difficult to detach but please consider doing just that, or at least not permitting yourself to be dragged back down into his hell again. It'd be different if you could drag him out of it. Since you can't then the most that can be done is limiting the collateral damage to your family.


Quoted for truth.

I am an alcoholic and I would advise you to not hesitate to protect yourself. We are the destroyers of worlds. :(

[Kalhoun]

Strangely enough, after you posted your OP, I got a call that my dad was in a very bad way. He had fallen backwards down the stairs in his flat, and was stuck in his bedroom with no way to get food, or open the door. He was, obviously, sore all over and was also hallucinating because of the sudden alcohol detox. He fell on Wednesday evening, and we eventually got to him today and got him to hospital. He looked dreadful. All yellow, and his abdomen is hugely distended. I have never seen him this bad. He can't go back to his flat on his own (physically or mentally), but that means that we are all dragged into this again.

I don't want to hijack your thread, Scougs, but I just wanted to share and this seemed as appropriate a place as any. Any good thoughts would be greatfully appreciated.
Neeps, my SIL was to that point and was able to recover. They removed 4 liters of fluid off her abdomen. I wish your dad the best.

[Scougs]

Strangely enough, after you posted your OP, I got a call that my dad was in a very bad way. He had fallen backwards down the stairs in his flat, and was stuck in his bedroom with no way to get food, or open the door. He was, obviously, sore all over and was also hallucinating because of the sudden alcohol detox. He fell on Wednesday evening, and we eventually got to him today and got him to hospital. He looked dreadful. All yellow, and his abdomen is hugely distended. I have never seen him this bad. He can't go back to his flat on his own (physically or mentally), but that means that we are all dragged into this again.

I don't want to hijack your thread, Scougs, but I just wanted to share and this seemed as appropriate a place as any. Any good thoughts would be greatfully appreciated.


Oh, Neeps, that's not good. Sounds very, very familiar. But as Kalhoun says, it's not like there's no way back. Maybe this will give him a wake up call, maybe not. It's going to be a difficult time.

You will shortly have a PM.

[Neeps]

Thanks, all, for your kind words. I guess all we can do is whatever we think is the best, so that when we look back on this time, we won't be having second thoughts about what we could have done better or differently.

That being said, given what everyone has been through in these kind of situations, and what Scougs has been through so recently, that is maybe an overly hopeful thought :(

We have been through this before, so all I can do at the moment is take one day as it comes. Ironic thought, that.

[Kalhoun]

Thanks, all, for your kind words. I guess all we can do is whatever we think is the best, so that when we look back on this time, we won't be having second thoughts about what we could have done better or differently.

That being said, given what everyone has been through in these kind of situations, and what Scougs has been through so recently, that is maybe an overly hopeful thought :(

We have been through this before, so all I can do at the moment is take one day as it comes. Ironic thought, that.

There really are people who have gotten to the brink and have come back to live a meaningful life, free of alcohol. I agree it will take a lot of determination on your dad's part, and there are no guarantees once a body has endured so much damage. However, my SIL lived another 7 years after her hospitalization and coma (and she was drinking for nearly the entire time!). Maybe you can find some examples and share them with your dad, to encourage him to stick with a life of sobriety. I feel your despair. It's a very helpless place to be, but it's not necessarily the end of the line.

[Moirai]

There really are people who have gotten to the brink and have come back to live a meaningful life, free of alcohol.... It's a very helpless place to be, but it's not necessarily the end of the line.

I agree- both with the "it's possible" and the "it can be very difficult" parts. I was a low-bottom drunk & junkie who got sober via a hospital's rehab program (30 days plus aftercare plus a shitload of AA meetings). It can be done- I have been sober for almost 18 years- but you have to want it more than anything else, every day. Otherwise, you get a case of the "fuck-its" one morning and all your previous hard work can go down the drain if you aren't vigilant.

Sometimes we drunks make gentle fun of you "normie" spouses and family members, that you must be the truly sick ones, to stick with us. But honestly, you are the strongest, most loving, and toughest people around. Hopefully you are also smart enough to do what's best for yourself when the time comes (hard to tell when exactly that is, I know).

[Rascal's Mom]

My mother was an alcoholic for years (I'll get to the "was" part soon). Tipsy by 10 a.m., drunk and sleeping by noon. She went to in-patient rehab so many times I lost count, one year for three different stints. My dad is a farmer so has much occasion to be outside, which was his only, albeit temporary, respite. Of course, he'd get his stuff done, come in the house and mom would be drunker than when he left. She fell numerous times, breaking several pairs of eyeglasses, knocking out teeth. She'd have bruises all over. We would have occasional breaks fresh out of rehab where she'd be good. She'd lose the abdominal bloating, only to fall off the wagon again.

Three years ago in April, mom had a stroke. I can only think it was directly attributable to the drinking (and QtM, or any other doctor, feel free to chime in here). She got to the hospital in the nick of time (considering they live probably 25 miles away) and got that injection - can't remember the name of the drug - in time, but between the lasting effects of the stroke combined with withdrawal, it was a very rough few days. She hasn't had a drink since, doesn't even think of it, but her mental capacity is hugely diminished. The "upside" is that dad has his companion back. She is very sweet and docile. I have no doubts she would be dead today if not for that stroke.