Job Applicants - Try not to be an idiot on your first impression

[Smitty]

I have a tech support position open. I have posted an ad on Craigslist. The posting clearly says to go to our website and apply online. It specifically says "no phone calls."

So far, in under 5 hours, I have gotten 12 resumes via email and one phone call. The cream of the crop thus far has been one woman who not only responded via email, she misspelled the word "sincerely" in her email. And, on top of that, when I opened her resume, it was a blank template! Yes. You read that right. The resume had no information. It was a Word template that still contained the place markers saying things like, "[Type objective here]".

In this economy why in the name of all that is good and holy would you do anything other than triple check to make sure you are making the best possible impression you can? I am bloody flabbergasted.

[pbbth]

I once received a resume from a woman who typed her entire resume in strikethrough. It is mind boggling that she thought anyone would be able to read something like this! I threw it away. Other jewels in that batch included resumes with cover letters for completely different companies and resumes with objectives like, "I would like to write for television someday" when applying for a health insurance position.

[Robot Arm]

Hmm, I'm looking for a job. Where are you?

[Borborygmi]

Yes. You read that right. The resume had no information. It was a Word template that still contained the place markers saying things like, "[Type objective here]".Hey, [Your name] is doing the best she can. The skills needed for [Describe your career goal or ideal job] probably have little or no correlation with the skills needed for creating a perfect resume. I say bring [Your name] in for an interview... you just might discover she has the experience in [Professional or technical skill], [Professional or technical skill], and [Professional or technical skill] that you are looking for.

[Hakuna Matata]

I once received a resume from a woman who typed her entire resume in strikethrough. It is mind boggling that she thought anyone would be able to read something like this! I threw it away. Other jewels in that batch included resumes with cover letters for completely different companies and resumes with objectives like, "I would like to write for television someday" when applying for a health insurance position.

Was this a word document or a .pdf and not a paper resume? The reason I ask is that I have noticed on rare occasion visually the text is correct on the word document, but when I print to .pdf I will get the strikethrough thing happen. Not sure why, but perhaps that explains it...or maybe she was just an idiot :D

[Really Not All That Bright]

Hey, [Your name] is doing the best she can. The skills needed for [Describe your career goal or ideal job] probably have little or no correlation with the skills needed for creating a perfect resume. I say bring [Your name] in for an interview... you just might discover she has the experience in [Professional or technical skill], [Professional or technical skill], and [Professional or technical skill] that you are looking for.
I got a good chuckle out of this.

[pbbth]

Was this a word document or a .pdf and not a paper resume? The reason I ask is that I have noticed on rare occasion visually the text is correct on the word document, but when I print to .pdf I will get the strikethrough thing happen. Not sure why, but perhaps that explains it...or maybe she was just an idiot :D

This was a word document. I don't even care if it was an accident, I wasn't about to try and decipher that mess!

[Lizard]

I have a tech support position open. I have posted an ad on Craigslist. The posting clearly says to go to our website and apply online. It specifically says "no phone calls."

So far, in under 5 hours, I have gotten 12 resumes via email and one phone call. The cream of the crop thus far has been one woman who not only responded via email, she misspelled the word "sincerely" in her email. And, on top of that, when I opened her resume, it was a blank template! Yes. You read that right. The resume had no information. It was a Word template that still contained the place markers saying things like, "[Type objective here]".

In this economy why in the name of all that is good and holy would you do anything other than triple check to make sure you are making the best possible impression you can? I am bloody flabbergasted.

One more reason why "apply online" is for losers. I've never met anyone who did so and actually got the job, unless the job was either an entry level cattle-call or they were overqualified.

Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time filling out their generic online application. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a computerized format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them.

[friedo]

I just looked through another stack today. One guy said he was familiar with the "Aparche" web server.

Another put his Hotmail email address right on the very top. At least, I think it was Hotmail, since the address was hisname@hotmial.com.

[Quintas]

They probably think (usually correctly) that the 'online application' is simply going to disappear into a black hole, so they figure, "What the hell, let me TRY to make some human contact".

My last job search taught me that 'apply online' is about as effective as taping a sign to my chest and walking around the grounds of whatever company I was applying for.

Saying you are familiar with 'Aparche' is just stupid though. lol.

[Smitty]

Hey, [Your name] is doing the best she can. The skills needed for [Describe your career goal or ideal job] probably have little or no correlation with the skills needed for creating a perfect resume. I say bring [Your name] in for an interview... you just might discover she has the experience in [Professional or technical skill], [Professional or technical skill], and [Professional or technical skill] that you are looking for.

Now THAT is good funny! :D

[Rand Rover]

The cynic in me wonders if some of these inept job seekers apply just to check the "I tried" box so they can continue collecting unemployment.

[Sampiro]

My favorite application I ever got was the one whose cover letter was addressed "Dear Mama".

[Smitty]

Hmm, I'm looking for a job. Where are you?

Houston, TX

[Jayn_Newell]

Another put his Hotmail email address right on the very top. At least, I think it was Hotmail, since the address was hisname@hotmial.com.Colour me dense (it won't be news to me) but what's the exact problem here?

[Giles]

Colour me dense (it won't be news to me) but what's the exact problem here?
mial for mail

[Quintas]

I applied and actually got an interview with a local cable company once. The 'interview' consisted of 2 tests. One was a technical knowledge test. The other was some version of the Keirsey temper test. Aced the tech side but was dismissed because my 'personality profile' was of the wrong sort. So idiocy comes from both directions.

[runner pat]

Colour me dense (it won't be news to me) but what's the exact problem here?

Take a close look at the email address.

hotmail, not hotmial.

ETA: and color me slow to type.

[Jayn_Newell]

Yup, I'm dense *facepalms*

[Frank]

Houston, TX
Robot Arm! You've made a good first impression!

You're on your own now.

[Jragon]

One more reason why "apply online" is for losers. I've never met anyone who did so and actually got the job, unless the job was either an entry level cattle-call or they were overqualified.

Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time filling out their generic online application. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a computerized format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them.

That's because they use the wrong keywords (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/resume).

[ZipperJJ]

I spent an hour helping a friend fill out the online app for the local Valvoline Instant Oil Change place. Seemed like the "test" took forever and there were reams of personality trait questions. He didn't seem to be doing too bad with his answers - he wasn't lying just to get them "right" but nothing he said seemed opposite to what I expect from Valvoline employees. Anyway, after all that the application just bluntly said "sorry you're not a fit" and that was the end of that.

What a joke :( I can see why people don't like to apply online!

Then again, I can't see why people are sending inane shit via email, either...

[catsix]

They probably think (usually correctly) that the 'online application' is simply going to disappear into a black hole, so they figure, "What the hell, let me TRY to make some human contact".

My last job search taught me that 'apply online' is about as effective as taping a sign to my chest and walking around the grounds of whatever company I was applying for.

Saying you are familiar with 'Aparche' is just stupid though. lol.

I work with a guy who calls this particular web server software appa chey. Took me a while to figure out what the hell he's talking about.

He also has some ... personal space problems. He likes to be inside everyone's but his own.

[tdn]

To who it may consern...

i am intersted in aply-ing for a job as a english teach. please see my inclosed resumay. i have 13 years teaching experence and wood make a fine edition to you scool.

sinserly,
robert j pigglesbottom

Not on a sheet of notebook paper. On HALF a sheet of notebook paper. TORN in half. And written in pencil. I'd like to say that this was a one-time letter. Nope. It happened just about every week.

[Dogzilla]

I was hiring editors once. I received a resume from an editor who wrote, "... and I'm very detailed-oriented."

Erm. No, you're not. Sorry, honey.

:: chucks another resume into bin ::

[Really Not All That Bright]

sinserly,
robert j pigglesbottom
How could you not hire a guy with a name like that?

[Oakminster]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.

[Trepa Mayfield]

What's so bad about a free isp?

[DiosaBellissima]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.

Oh, even better: I was looking through a directory of California Enrolled Agents, as we were looking for someone to contact (duh). Some dude's email was something like: DOMDADDY6969@HOTMAIL.COM

Published. In a professional magazine/directory thing.

[Jayn_Newell]

Not on a sheet of notebook paper. On HALF a sheet of notebook paper. TORN in half. And written in pencil. I'd like to say that this was a one-time letter. Nope. It happened just about every week.Same handwriting?

[ElvisL1ves]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.You didn't say which way the cut went. :D

[The Hamster King]

What's so bad about a free isp?It's not the free isp that's the problem, it's the sex fiend user ID.

[Frank]

It's not the free isp that's the problem, it's the sex fiend user ID.
Something wrong with "SexyMcHottie@Oakminster.org"?

[descamisado]

I spent an hour helping a friend fill out the online app for the local Valvoline Instant Oil Change place. Seemed like the "test" took forever and there were reams of personality trait questions. He didn't seem to be doing too bad with his answers - he wasn't lying just to get them "right" but nothing he said seemed opposite to what I expect from Valvoline employees. Anyway, after all that the application just bluntly said "sorry you're not a fit" and that was the end of that.

What a joke :( I can see why people don't like to apply online!

Then again, I can't see why people are sending inane shit via email, either...That's bad enough. I just recently filled out an online application for Time Warner Cable. Downloaded my resume, which the software then searched to fill in the application (I only had to make one correction). They even asked salary requirements and a couple of other questions.

I got a reply right away that said my qualifications and other answers fit their criteria for the position I was seeking and that someone would be contacting me in the next week to set up an interview.

That was 2 months ago.

[Critical1]

I once received a resume from a woman who typed her entire resume in strikethrough. It is mind boggling that she thought anyone would be able to read something like this! I threw it away. Other jewels in that batch included resumes with cover letters for completely different companies and resumes with objectives like, "I would like to write for television someday" when applying for a health insurance position.

This was a word document. I don't even care if it was an accident, I wasn't about to try and decipher that mess!

so instead of hitting control+a and clicking off strike through you tossed it out? Heh,

of course if she did it on purpose sure but if it was a formatting bug then I think this makes you the weak link here...:p

[JSexton]

Got a resume last week. Looked good and professional, but the listed email address was HighLyfe420@[somefreeisp].

Binned. Is it that hard to just get a throwaway that looks professional just for resumes?

[Robot Arm]

Houston, TXThat's a little farther than I was hoping to commute.

I am rigorous almost to the point of obsession on getting the details right when I submit a résumé. I put the accents on the e's in 'résumé', for one thing (hang your head, Dogzilla); and I looked up the difference between 'farther' and 'further' just for this post. I don't know if it's ever done me any good, or if the people I'm submitting to even notice.

[zweisamkeit]

I remember a few years back, I was looking at getting a part time job at Borders while at college. You had to apply online, which was a multi-multi page multiple choice bullshit thing... and you had to apply individually for EACH GODDAMNED LOCATION! WHAT THE FUCK SENSE DOES THAT MAKE? One application should be able to be sent to all local Borders shops!

[Broomstick]

I have a tech support position open. I have posted an ad on Craigslist. The posting clearly says to go to our website and apply online. It specifically says "no phone calls."
But you'll STILL get phone calls because the current job hunting gurus say ALWAYS make a phone call even if you're told not to call!

In fact, what I've been hearing lately is apply on-line, fax resume, call, AND show up in person unannounced! Even if you're specifically told not to do any of the above, you must still do all of the above to impress a prospective employer with how much you want the job and how much you really, really, really love them. Far as I can see, that would only work for jobs as a paparazzi or a stalker (like there's a difference?)

[Mr. Excellent]

One more reason why "apply online" is for losers. I've never met anyone who did so and actually got the job, unless the job was either an entry level cattle-call or they were overqualified.

Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time filling out their generic online application. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a computerized format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Online applications are good tools when you anticipate a *lot* of applicants. That can be the case when you're hiring low-level employees, true - but it can also be the case with very desirable, higher-level jobs. For example, the federal Attorney Honors programs (which hire law students straight out of school) and the Presidential Management Fellowships are both *very* prestigious, and both use online applications. Of course, neither program uses them *exclusively* - but they're used for the first steps.

[Estilicon]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.

I understand what you are saying. So, was Miss Sexy Machottie sexy and hot?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Yeah, but she can't type for shit.

[JThunder]

And she wasn't Scottish.

[Revenant Threshold]

In fact, what I've been hearing lately is apply on-line, fax resume, call, AND show up in person unannounced! Even if you're specifically told not to do any of the above, you must still do all of the above to impress a prospective employer with how much you want the job and how much you really, really, really love them. Far as I can see, that would only work for jobs as a paparazzi or a stalker (like there's a difference?)See, this is the kind of advice i'm having to ignore during my soul-crushing job search (although I think that may be redundant). Friends and the odd family member saying, "Oh, it says you should apply through their system, but you should send in a couple of emails too, to show you're serious. And write letters as well! Them saying not too is just to weed out the people who don't care as much". I'm afraid you would have to count me in as one of the idiot annoyances in the past (though the more sane approach doesn't seem to be doing much better so far, alas).

[Rand Rover]

Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time filling out their generic online application. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a computerized format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them.

Wow, we have a new candidate for the poster with the most well-developed sense of entitlement. The last part of your post makes some sense (i.e., by arguing that the employer is hurting itself by using an online application), but the first part is pure entitled whining ("but I don't WANNA fill out an online application, wah!").

[Isamu]

Another put his Hotmail email address right on the very top. At least, I think it was Hotmail, since the address was hisname@hotmial.com.

Perhaps it's a freudian slip - he's willing to work for 3 hot-mi-als a day.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Got a resume last week. Looked good and professional, but the listed email address was HighLyfe420@[somefreeisp].

Binned. Is it that hard to just get a throwaway that looks professional just for resumes? And does the job in question require drug testing? :D

[MikeG]

But you'll STILL get phone calls because the current job hunting gurus say ALWAYS make a phone call even if you're told not to call!

In fact, what I've been hearing lately is apply on-line, fax resume, call, AND show up in person unannounced! Even if you're specifically told not to do any of the above, you must still do all of the above to impress a prospective employer with how much you want the job and how much you really, really, really love them. Far as I can see, that would only work for jobs as a paparazzi or a stalker (like there's a difference?)

I've been job hunting since the beginning of December and the best job interview I got was due to me applying online, then going to the local office and speaking with the office manager and dropping off a resume. The regional manager happened to be in IL that week so he called me in two days later. Unfortunately the company put in a hiring freeze across the board (I checked, one day there were 40 jobs up on Monster and Careerbuilder, the next there were none) but he says when the freeze is lifted I'm going to be the first one hired.

[Saintly Loser]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.

Oh, God, yes. I'm the secretarial services and word processing manager for a fair-sized Manhattan law firm, so I'm involved in quite a bit of secretarial hiring. I see quite a bit of this. And even when I don't, I'll get an e-mail from some secretary who's going to be late or out sick, and it will be from some address like "HQQTRS@freebie.com", or (more likely) "luvzfuzzykutekittens@makemesick.com". The e-mail will say "hi! I'm not feeling well today and won't be coming in." If I'm lucky, she'll include her actual real name somewhere so I'll know exactly which cute kitty lover won't be in today.

[Leaper]

But you'll STILL get phone calls because the current job hunting gurus say ALWAYS make a phone call even if you're told not to call!

In fact, what I've been hearing lately is apply on-line, fax resume, call, AND show up in person unannounced! Even if you're specifically told not to do any of the above, you must still do all of the above to impress a prospective employer with how much you want the job and how much you really, really, really love them.

Oh, crap, I should've been doing all of that all this time???

My instincts were wrong! :P

[descamisado]

Oh, God, yes. I'm the secretarial services and word processing manager for a fair-sized Manhattan law firm, so I'm involved in quite a bit of secretarial hiring. I see quite a bit of this. And even when I don't, I'll get an e-mail from some secretary who's going to be late or out sick, and it will be from some address like "HQQTRS@freebie.com", or (more likely) "luvzfuzzykutekittens@makemesick.com". The e-mail will say "hi! I'm not feeling well today and won't be coming in." If I'm lucky, she'll include her actual real name somewhere so I'll know exactly which cute kitty lover won't be in today.Can you PM (or email me) whether I can send you my resume; if so, can you say in the message what firm you're with (I promise I won't call or come 'round)?

I'm looking in that field.

[bengangmo]

I just went through the process of hiring another secretary. Can't tell you how many folks list their email address as some variation of "SexyMcHottie@freeisp.com". Made my first round of cuts much easier.

Is it the "sexymchottie" part or the "@freeisp" part that annoyed you? (I'm guessing the sexymchottie). Dunno about your part of the world, but here it is highly unusual to have a paid email account - and even if I did, I still have my yahoo from 14 years ago that I use...but I do also have yahoo2, gmail and hotmail addresses.

[HazelNutCoffee]

My dad, when he was working in a government-funded research institute, once got a resume with "Thank you so much for your time! ^_^" on the bottom of it.

^_^? Really? Who puts emoticons on resumes?

[pulykamell]

so instead of hitting control+a and clicking off strike through you tossed it out? Heh,

of course if she did it on purpose sure but if it was a formatting bug then I think this makes you the weak link here...:p

Yeah, if I got a resume with all strikethrough, my first instinct would be to assume that something got screwed up in the translation along the way. That is, unless there were other things in the resume to make me conclude this was done on purpose.

[SpazCat]

One of my roommates had a job interview today. The person in front of him was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. He was called into the interview room and walked out thirty seconds later. The recruiter came out and said "I wish people would brush their teeth before coming to an interview."

My roommate, who was wearing a suit and had showered, shaved, and brushed his teeth before coming in, not only got a job, he got a better job than the one he had originally applied for.

[Chimera]

Hay! I cn do Tek Spport! Higher me, plz!

u cn e-m me at doggiestylemaster@dumbass.com.


:D

[Projammer]

Would you believe I signed on tonight with the intention of starting an HR horror stories thread? Just to give the Dopers that are looking something to feel good about.

My worst doesn't come anywhere near some of these, excepting the inappropriate email addresses.

But the most amusing. I was managing a PC tech shop and needed to replace someone that was moving across country. The most memorable resume was from a young lady whose most recent job was as an aerobics instructor. And the rest of her work history was just about as relevant to computer diagnostics as that.

Still almost called her in for an interview just to see if she was a hottie. :D

Almost.

[Ro Carter]

As an addendum to the inappropriate and unprofessional email addresses, don't get an email address that professes to anyone who sees the name that you are a "god", "whiz", "guru", or anything else similar in a specialty in a particular field (for example, ISPgod). This will make the people looking at your resume laugh, and not in a good way. If you do get called in for an interview, be sure that you will be getting the hardest questions possible about your area of "god"-hood.

Similar to the Aparche incident above, please do not use buzzwords that you don't actually know the meaning of. If you say you have experience with a "distributed" database, I had better not find out that it was an Access 2003 DB located on a single server that was apparently set up by drunken squirrels, judging from the table design.

[The Blue-Sighted Shadow]

This was from a while ago: If the company sends you a cease and desist letter, you're not going to get the job. Seriously. I mean it. Stop calling. And writing. And stalking our employees to shove your resume in their face. Next time, we will call the cops.

There's a line between persistent and crazy and this guy blew right past it.

[smiling bandit]

Similar to the Aparche incident above...

Och! I cannae believe ye durn 'Mericans alwess be harping un oor proonsyatin'! And afore, when ye was insultin' the rite honrble name o' the MacHottie Clan! Fer shame, ye!

Truly, we's be living' in an age o' th'ignorance and th'prejidish, we do.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Is that.... a Scotsman trying to fit in in South Central?

[CairoCarol]

To review applications from aspiring writers is to swim in a sea of irony without a lifejacket.

The letter I'm printing below, exactly as received, is framed and on my wall as a fine example of the genre:

---------
hello


my nae is bassma

and i wanted to ask about how to send like a piece or something?

i'm 20 years old and kind of "dont know how does that work"

but i think that i can write...so i wanted to try sending you something

hoping to be answered back

and a little explaination of how i can apply will help me

thank you very much

----------------------------------



It's poetry, really.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Is it the "sexymchottie" part or the "@freeisp" part that annoyed you? (I'm guessing the sexymchottie). Dunno about your part of the world, but here it is highly unusual to have a paid email account - and even if I did, I still have my yahoo from 14 years ago that I use...but I do also have yahoo2, gmail and hotmail addresses. I have a couple of email accounts, lynnbodoni and granitasmithdott, both at Hotmail. The granitasmithdott is the name of an old game character, and I use it for any sort of commercial business...for instance, if I register for something, and I'm not dead certain that I won't get spam, I use the GS name.

I don't have a paid email address that I check regularly. I think I have a charter.net address, but my husband is always threatening to switch ISPs, so I never use it. The beauty of the Hotmail accounts is that I can carry them from one ISP to another.

[Oakminster]

Is it the "sexymchottie" part or the "@freeisp" part that annoyed you? (I'm guessing the sexymchottie). Dunno about your part of the world, but here it is highly unusual to have a paid email account - and even if I did, I still have my yahoo from 14 years ago that I use...but I do also have yahoo2, gmail and hotmail addresses.

It was the SexyMcHottie part I didn't like. It struck me as unprofessional...and there's no way I wanted any email from my work account to SexyMcHottie. I have no objections to hotmail, yahoo, etc.

[Uzi]

I have a couple of email accounts, lynnbodoni and granitasmithdott, both at Hotmail. The granitasmithdott is the name of an old game character, and I use it for any sort of commercial business...for instance, if I register for something, and I'm not dead certain that I won't get spam, I use the GS name.

I have 3 paid email addresses. 2 of which I forward to my gmail address (my main address). My ISP webmail server is a bitch to get in Yemen, but gmail works fine which is why I got that address.

Any resume gets sent with the gmail address. firstname.lastname@gmail.com. They already have your resume so why use an anonymous address?

My paid ISP address break out as follows: 1 for friends and family that is like my gmail address. One for online business that is a shortened version of the first name last name bit, but that won't bother me to change if need be. And the last one is for the, uh, more unsavoury sites on the web that would probably generate lots of spam.

You should see some of the resume's I get in Yemen.

"I am looking for a job that <pasted description from job posting>"

Multiple copies of the same resume with different names on the top of it.

Qualifications that would make Doogie Howser envious. eg. A Master's in computer design. Age 22. Applying for an entry level position as a workstation tech.

[Leaper]

Qualifications that would make Doogie Howser envious. eg. A Master's in computer design. Age 22. Applying for an entry level position as a workstation tech.

What's so bad about this? I hate hate HATE it when I'm told I'm "overqualified" for a job I apply to. I want to shake them and say, "have you read the newspaper lately? Do you really think I'll 'get bored' with the job market in this state?"

[Oakminster]

What's so bad about this? I hate hate HATE it when I'm told I'm "overqualified" for a job I apply to. I want to shake them and say, "have you read the newspaper lately? Do you really think I'll 'get bored' with the job market in this state?"

I'd expect someone with a Master's to be older than 22, so I'd wonder if maybe the applicant was less than completely honest about his or her qualifications.

[pulykamell]

I'd expect someone with a Master's to be older than 22, so I'd wonder if maybe the applicant was less than completely honest about his or her qualifications.

Really? 22/23 doesn't seem at all unusual for a Master's if you went straight from undergrad to grad school. I have several friends who finished their masters at 22.

[Captain_C]

Sorry OP, but I am about to become one of these idiots. I've tried unsuccessfully to get a better job for the last three years by only utilizing the communication methods suggested by the employer. You know how many call backs I've gotten from filling out what I estimate to be around 500 online applications? One, and I didn't get the job.

Well, I've had enough of it. I am almost done with a Master's degree in Criminal Justice and I still work for $9 / hr and have had enough of it. I'm going to call, I'm going to fax, hell I might even just show up at your office until someone acknowledges that I am a competent and hard working human being who really really really wants to make enough money to actually responsibly raise a family. I turn 25 in a month and am fucking sick of working with people just graduating high school.

Are you free at 10AM, or should I stop by at 11?

[Kaio]

Speaking of first impressions:

Just ran across this on a job site...


copwriter
CompanyX — We need a writer. A writer who can think.


Yes... yes you do.

Coming straight from this thread to that job listing made me laugh out loud. :D

[Kamino Neko]

But you'll STILL get phone calls because the current job hunting gurus say ALWAYS make a phone call even if you're told not to call!

That cracked me up at my last job, actually.

My boss hated people calling concerning job apps. Every time someone made a call he'd go on a rant about how the fact that they did it proved they were idiots. What kind of idiot would CALL? (Yes, when I was gearing up, getting advice, 'always call' was a big part of it.)

Now, I wasn't an idiot (the fact that I didn't call isn't proof of it, it just was never an option, given how I applied), so I didn't argue with him (at the time I still wanted to keep the job, though I regretted that, later), but I always rolled my eyes, a bit.

Also, since we've opened it to rants from the interview table...one thing I've come to hate is when requirements for a given job aren't stated in the ad, or on the app. My last two job interviews, I didn't find out until the interview that a valid licence was required (and since both were for office work, I wouldn't have assumed they would be) - once, it was the first question, which lead to 'sorry, but that's a requirement', the other I didn't find out until after what was a pretty good interview (I got several compliments from the interviewer). (To that second company's credit, when they relisted the job, they did add a 'must have a licence' disclaimer.)

[Uzi]

Really? 22/23 doesn't seem at all unusual for a Master's if you went straight from undergrad to grad school. I have several friends who finished their masters at 22.


Assuming that they actually have finished their Master's, would you hire any one of them as a junior, bottom of the barrel, technician's position that requires at most a technical school qualification?
Don't be daft. They are either not telling the truth (a lot of these qualifications in the third world are bought, or not worth the paper they are printed on), or they actually have the qualifications and are so overqualified that they'll expect immediate promotions and raises, or will jump ship at the first opportunity.

[Sublight]

My advice to job applicants is to always look out for #1. Don't be afraid to demand the things you think you deserve, because dammit, they owe you!

Did I mention I got my current job because the first pick shot himself in the foot making special demands?

[Tracy Lord]

One more reason why "apply online" is for losers. I've never met anyone who did so and actually got the job, unless the job was either an entry level cattle-call or they were overqualified.

I have! I got my current job through an online application. I did have two years more experience than they were looking for, but that was because I'd worked part-time on a newspaper through university, and I was still in the category (recent graduates and early-career starters) that they were looking for.

We've just gone through the hiring process for another subeditor, and some of the cover letters were awful. My personal favorite was the one which began:

Dear Sirs,

I am very experience sub.

Which didn't endear him to an all-female production desk even before the errors started!

edit: Assuming that they actually have finished their Master's, would you hire any one of them as a junior, bottom of the barrel, technician's position that requires at most a technical school qualification?

Are you talking about recent applications? There probably aren't any other jobs for them in the current economy, honestly.

FTR, I finished my bachelor's at 21 would have been 22 with a master's if I had chosen grad school. I think that's not unusual.

[GorillaMan]

Masters at 22 is run-of-the-mill in the UK. Last time I checked, we weren't a third world country, either.

[threnodyangelfire]

My favorite application I ever got was the one whose cover letter was addressed "Dear Mama".

I'm working late and feeling sorry for myself because of it. The above quote has kept me giggling for the last 5 mins. Thanks!

Every job, aside from the present one, I've gotten in the last decade has been gained online. Having said that, I only apply for jobs that I really want, and I create each application specifically for the position being advertised.

My favourite one was the girl who referred to herself in the third person, and by her surname.

[jtgain]

The posting clearly says to go to our website and apply online. It specifically says "no phone calls."

So far, in under 5 hours, I have gotten 12 resumes via email and one phone call. The cream of the crop thus far has been one woman who not only responded via

In fairness, several years ago when a person took the initiative to "go the extra mile" by calling, emailing, or showing up in person, the recruiter took that as a motivated employee and a positive attribute. Today it is seen as being a pain in the ass.

I'm not saying that this is you or your company, but it seems like the message is, "We don't want to see you as an individual. You are a name on a sheet of paper." I know that you have hundreds of names to go through, but if the position was that important to you, then you wouldn't mind chatting with someone who called you on the phone.

[BobLibDem]

No offense, but if you're serious about hiring someone why do it through Craig's List? With all the riffraff and scum that post and reply to that site, why look there? You aren't going to soar with the eagles by running with the turkeys.

[DianaG]

Damn, this entire thread, I was thinking "NO ONE has mentioned that the problem might be that you're posting at CRAIGSLIST?!?!?" and I was beaten to it right at the end.

Seriously... the people looking at the job listings are the same people writing the Rants & Raves. These are not people I want to know, let alone work with.

[Derleth]

Is that.... a Scotsman trying to fit in in South Central?Poor MacTen never could find someone to accept him. His practice of making haggis with chitlins and hog maws probably didn't help, though, but he could tag his tartan without using stencils!

[TokyoBayer]

I used to interview English teachers for my Japanese friend who had an English school. There were some unforgetable resumes.

Two roommates sent in resumes, almost completely identical, except for different names. They had pictures attached, so it wasn't the same person. Same layout, of course, but the phrasing for previous work experience was damn near the same.

The best one was a guy who sent in a resume for a modeling job, including having gone to some modeling school in LA, experience there. Whatever. For some reason, I decided to interview him just for the hell of it, and he shows up with an other resume for teaching English, having gone to some school for teaching English as as second language in LA, experience there. Whatever.

The guy just said that he probably gave me the wrong resume, and here's the right one, without blinking an eye.

Just after he left his "friend" called to see if he was there (precell days) and it was obviously staged to allow me to ask the "friend" questions about the guy. When I said that the guy had left already, the friend was trying to stay on the line until I asked him a question. Pretty funny.

[DogMom]

Houston, TXThat's a little farther than I was hoping to commute.


Well, heck, I'm looking for a job and willing to move if I find the right one.

<shameless begging>
Smitty? Are you still hiring? PM me a link to the online listing if you are, pretty please?
</shameless begging>

[DogMom]

It was the SexyMcHottie part I didn't like. It struck me as unprofessional...and there's no way I wanted any email from my work account to SexyMcHottie. I have no objections to hotmail, yahoo, etc.
Exactly - I created a separate gmail account when I started looking for work. The account is my first initial, middle initial and last name at gmail dot com.
I figured that looked far more professional than "DogMom".
General rule:Even your email account says something about you. Best to make that First Impression a good one.

[Anne Neville]

Got a resume last week. Looked good and professional, but the listed email address was HighLyfe420@[somefreeisp].

Mr. Neville's brother's father-in-law has pot4fun@someisp as his email address. He uses it because his hobby is pottery. He refuses to listen when people bring up... ah... potential alternative interpretations of that email address. I hope for his sake he's never applying for jobs with that email address.

[zweisamkeit]

Assuming that they actually have finished their Master's, would you hire any one of them as a junior, bottom of the barrel, technician's position that requires at most a technical school qualification?
Don't be daft. They are either not telling the truth (a lot of these qualifications in the third world are bought, or not worth the paper they are printed on), or they actually have the qualifications and are so overqualified that they'll expect immediate promotions and raises, or will jump ship at the first opportunity.

In this economy? Fuck yes they're applying for entry level positions. There's hardly anything out there at all and they're applying to anything they can.

I applied for an IT internship... when I had my B.S. in Computer Science already. I wasn't the only one with one who had applied. I know I'm in Michigan so I get an especially large piece of the shit sandwich here, but... it's really bad out there. Overqualified? Not a surprise.

[norinew]

Some years back, my hubby was working IT for the state of Maryland Dept of Corrections. This was around 1998, and the state gov't was in a tizzy about Y2K. Hence, my hubby was put in charge of Y2K remediation, and given the authority to hire a couple of DBA's. He interviewed dozens before he found two that he thought would work out.

In one interview, where he thought the resume looked promising, he asked the applicant why he wanted the job. The applicant said "Well, I really don't. I think I'll hate the job. But I want to work a government job, and this would get my foot in the door. . ."

Don't know if he was shocked when he didn't get hired. . .

[DogMom]

In this economy? Fuck yes they're applying for entry level positions. There's hardly anything out there at all and they're applying to anything they can.

I applied for an IT internship... when I had my B.S. in Computer Science already. I wasn't the only one with one who had applied. I know I'm in Michigan so I get an especially large piece of the shit sandwich here, but... it's really bad out there. Overqualified? Not a surprise.
Plus, frankly, the Master's Degree holder has zero experience unless their program allowed for Internships or Co-Op work. So yeah, a lot of them will try for the entry-level slots because especially in this economy, employers are looking for people with experience. They know they can get it, so they're holding out for it.

[pbbth]

Yeah, if I got a resume with all strikethrough, my first instinct would be to assume that something got screwed up in the translation along the way. That is, unless there were other things in the resume to make me conclude this was done on purpose.

Meh, maybe she would have been the perfect candidate for the job and I should have tried to remove the strikethrough to read her resume. I was in a bit if a hurry, however, since I had 360 resumes to get through for a single position. Very early on in the resume reading process I determined that if I opened a file and it made me say, "What the hell?" I wasn't going to continue reading when I had lots of non-crazy resumes to read.

And as far as Craigslist goes I think it is a great job search tool. That is where I found my current job which is so full of awesome I could just about explode!

[Martiju]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Online applications are good tools when you anticipate a *lot* of applicants. That can be the case when you're hiring low-level employees, true - but it can also be the case with very desirable, higher-level jobs. For example, the federal Attorney Honors programs (which hire law students straight out of school) and the Presidential Management Fellowships are both *very* prestigious, and both use online applications. Of course, neither program uses them *exclusively* - but they're used for the first steps.

Agreed. I've applied for my last three jobs online - the latest a relatively senior management post. In fact, now I think of it, all the jobs at the university I work at are by online application - mainly to ensure that all the necessary details are included. Nothing worse than having to wade through CVs of all shapes and sizes to get the info you really want.

[Duke]

I'd expect someone with a Master's to be older than 22, so I'd wonder if maybe the applicant was less than completely honest about his or her qualifications.

I finished my master's at age 21, and that was with an extra year of study in England. Didn't seem particularly unusual to anybody I knew, especially in Canada, where many master's programs are one-year.

[don't ask]

One of my workmates and I do lots of interview panels. We both enjoy it and we are easy going so if someone needs an independent panel member we often get the call.

We collect examples of applicant stupidity. For some time now the undisputed champion has been the brilliant phrase: attantion of details.

A simple phrase, attention to detail, and every single fucking word is wrong.

We now use it at work when we stuff-up, "What was I doing? Due to my attantion of details I'll have to run this report again."

[Duke]

Well since I posted here already I suppose I should post this story.

Back when I worked in California we were looking for a secretary for our Dean of Advancement. Another co-worker and I were asked to interview Candidate #1. Remember that scene in Trainspotting where Spud takes speed for an "edge" in his job interview? It was about like that.

First question she asks is "Can I smoke here?" No. "OK then." Followed by about a minute of frantic digging in her purse, then she finally pulls out...a lighter!

[Lizard]

Wow, we have a new candidate for the poster with the most well-developed sense of entitlement. The last part of your post makes some sense (i.e., by arguing that the employer is hurting itself by using an online application), but the first part is pure entitled whining ("but I don't WANNA fill out an online application, wah!").

Yes, you are correct, I DO feel entitled. I'm the one who shelled out thousands for a college degree. I'm the one who IS smart enough to write a resume/spellcheck the resume/brush my teeth for the interview/dress well for the interview. In return, I expect to be able to get a call returned by a human being. In short, I expect to be TREATED like a human being, not an interchangeable machine.

People who tolerate being treated like shit (which is how applying online is treating them, as posters like Quintas have pointed out) will never be treated any better. More people should feel as entitled as I do.

[Lizard]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Online applications are good tools when you anticipate a *lot* of applicants. That can be the case when you're hiring low-level employees, true - but it can also be the case with very desirable, higher-level jobs. For example, the federal Attorney Honors programs (which hire law students straight out of school) and the Presidential Management Fellowships are both *very* prestigious, and both use online applications. Of course, neither program uses them *exclusively* - but they're used for the first steps.

You can disagree with me, sure, but nothing you've said here really contradicts me. Applying online makes it easy for the employer, to the detriment of everyone else. A person should have the chance to put his/her best foot forward. With few exceptions, you can't do that online.

[Uzi]

In this economy? Fuck yes they're applying for entry level positions. There's hardly anything out there at all and they're applying to anything they can.

And at the first chance they get they'll jump shit for something more "suitable" to their lofty credentials. Seriously, you'd hire a guy with a Master's to shlup computers around?
I already have guys with Master degrees working for me (all hired by previous supervisors). I can pretty much tell who are the problem employees based upon the level of their qualifications. The more they have the worse a workstation tech they are. They aren't happy just being a workstation tech. I don't have a big enough department to give them other opportunities, nor would I given their attitude.
I work in Yemen where opportunities are so few that you get people most people applying for positions that they are far over qualified for. I don't need an engineer to plug in a hard drive and install windows. I need a guy with an MCSE or equivalent technical cert with an emphasis on hardware as they are the ones who are likely to stay the longest and be the happiest in their position.

I applied for an IT internship... when I had my B.S. in Computer Science already.... Overqualified? Not a surprise.

Another side to this. I had an employee once who had a bachelor's in computer science. He had a managed to plug a floppy connector into the hard drive and after an hour asked me why couldn't get the computer to work. 2 seconds later I had him sorted out, but university education doesn't necessarily mean they are qualified to be a workstation tech. I need someone for a workstation tech position who has actually opened a computer, ripped it apart, and more importantly, put it back together again, not someone who spent their time programming the damn thing. Different jobs, different training.

[Moirai]

I finished my master's at age 21, and that was with an extra year of study in England. Didn't seem particularly unusual to anybody I knew, especially in Canada, where many master's programs are one-year.

Ah. In the US, students generally take 4 years to complete an undergrad degree (so let's say age 18-21), then an additional 2 years for a Masters. But you're right, not as young as it sounded initially.

ETA- forgot to add, I once received a resume written in pencil on heavy, pre-lined, non-white paper, like elementary school kids use in class. Yeah. Also one written in red pen for the same job, one printed on Hello Kitty paper, etc. Nice and professional.

[Rand Rover]

Yes, you are correct, I DO feel entitled. I'm the one who shelled out thousands for a college degree. I'm the one who IS smart enough to write a resume/spellcheck the resume/brush my teeth for the interview/dress well for the interview. In return, I expect to be able to get a call returned by a human being. In short, I expect to be TREATED like a human being, not an interchangeable machine.

People who tolerate being treated like shit (which is how applying online is treating them, as posters like Quintas have pointed out) will never be treated any better. More people should feel as entitled as I do.

Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want sonething from someone, then you have to play by the rules they've set up to get it. You can't just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn't owe you a living.

[Palo Verde]

My husband is a professor at a major university. His department was looking to hire another tenure track professor and he was on the search committee.

One day he brought a large stack of resumes home and gave me half and asked me to help sort out the ones that were obviously not qualified.

Now keep in mind, this is for a tenure track professor position at a major research university. One of the resumes was on tie-dye colored paper, was typed in this huge swoopy font, and began like like this:

HI!!! ;)



(Hint: don't start a resume with 'hi' and, as has been mentioned by another poster, don't use emoticons!)

[Really Not All That Bright]

Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want sonething from someone, then you have to play by the rules they've set up to get it. You can't just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn't owe you a living.
Although, frankly, good personal hygiene is worth an extra $20k a year in my book.

[Algher]

I had a guy who picked his teeth during the interview. I kept waiting for him to find something.

I had a woman who seemed to try her hardest to let me get the full view of her cleavage (including leaning over my desk to point out something on her resume). No, didn't hire her. If I need demo dollies for trade shows I call local modelling agencies.

I have seen the "toosexyforyou" email addresses - no interview.

As for those complaining about online applications - that is how the sorting is done. We got 500+ resumes for a recent tech support position. We took real resumes and went through them, and we had to use any possible way to get through the stack to 50 to deeply read, and 10 to interview, 3 for a call back and 1 to hire.

[GargoyleWB]

...or they actually have the qualifications and are so overqualified that they'll expect immediate promotions and raises, or will jump ship at the first opportunity.

Or, like the example appears, they are a recent graduate with no experience looking for entry-level experience. If they did indeed "jump ship" or expect raises and promotions, one would hope that your company has internal advancement opportunities and considers internal employee experience and development to be valuable to the company as a whole, so that employee "jumps ship" within your company and creates a more experienced and valuable workforce.

Or, you could be an HR drone cookie-cuttering openings with the cheapest expendable labor you can buy.

[Enderw24]

Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want sonething from someone, then you have to play by the rules they've set up to get it. You can't just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn't owe you a living.
And I think you've misconstrued the argument being presented. Lizarddidn't demand anything. He basically said "Applying online is demeaning and I refuse to do it."
Now, you can argue that this is an ineffective way to get a job. But he's never said he demanded a job from a company he wasn't even bothering to apply to.

[Uzi]

Or, like the example appears, they are a recent graduate with no experience looking for entry-level experience. If they did indeed "jump ship" or expect raises and promotions, one would hope that your company has internal advancement opportunities and considers internal employee experience and development to be valuable to the company as a whole, so that employee "jumps ship" within your company and creates a more experienced and valuable workforce.


As I stated earlier, we don't have any other opportunities for advancement because the component of our company in Yemen isn't large. At most, if they kill their supervisor, they can move to that position. He isn't leaving it voluntarily because there is no room for promotion for him. As an oil company, people with degrees in computer science have limited opportunities.

Or, you could be an HR drone cookie-cuttering openings with the cheapest expendable labor you can buy.

We pay our local people huge amounts of money. The majority of cases are more than 30 times the national average (not quite equivalent wages to those in North America, but close enough that 15 years ago when I started in the industy I'd be happy to have it.) They are the equivalent to rock stars in their country. It is like winning the lottery to work for us. Which explains why people with advanced degrees want to work for foreign oil companies. But it doesn't change the fact that I don't need a guy with a Master's working as a workstation tech. I need a guy who will pick up a computer, put it on a clients desk, load some software, and then fix it if it doesn't work. A guy with a legitimate Master's degree isn't going to be happy to do that for long. A guy who went to a technical school for a couple of years is a perfect fit. Different people and training for different roles. It seem people are having a tough time figuring that out.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Oh, even better: I was looking through a directory of California Enrolled Agents, as we were looking for someone to contact (duh). Some dude's email was something like: DOMDADDY6969@HOTMAIL.COM

Published. In a professional magazine/directory thing.Hey, now! It's entirely possible that that guy is father to a kid named Dominick, and was born on June 9, 1969.

Highly unlikely, but possible...

[Lizard]

Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want something from someone, then you have to play by the rules they've set up to get it. You can't just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn't owe you a living.

Quite the little Malthusian, aren't you? Actually, I have said nothing about "demanding to be hired," I said "demanding to be treated like a human being," i.e., with basic decency and respect, and not as disposable. But I guess people who think like you do serve a purpose. After all, the Labor movement would have never existed without you.

[Rand Rover]

And I think you've misconstrued the argument being presented. Lizarddidn't demand anything. He basically said "Applying online is demeaning and I refuse to do it."
Now, you can argue that this is an ineffective way to get a job. But he's never said he demanded a job from a company he wasn't even bothering to apply to.

I didn't misconstrue shit. I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.

[Rand Rover]

Quite the little Malthusian, aren't you? Actually, I have said nothing about "demanding to be hired," I said "demanding to be treated like a human being," i.e., with basic decency and respect, and not as disposable. But I guess people who think like you do serve a purpose. After all, the Labor movement would have never existed without you.
Your characterization of online application as dehumanizing makes you look like an entitled little bitch that I wouldn't hire to shovel snow. Good luck in your job search good sir. Don't expect to rise very far in your career without changing your attitude.

[smiling bandit]

I didn't misconstrue shit. I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.

Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren't even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions.

[Rand Rover]

Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren't even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions.

I wouldn't hire you to clean my cats' litter box.

[Bites When Provoked]

I wouldn't hire you to clean my cats' litter box.I bet the pay is crap anyway. :D

[Frank]

As I stated earlier, we don't have any other opportunities for advancement because the component of our company in Yemen isn't large. At most, if they kill their supervisor, they can move to that position.
I thought that was legal in Yemen.

[Frank]

I didn't misconstrue shit. I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.
You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, "I'm a Little Teapot."

[Really Not All That Bright]

You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, "I'm a Little Teapot."
Don't be silly.

It's the Barney I Love You song.

[Rand Rover]

You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, "I'm a Little Teapot."

Yer damn right. And those motherfuckers better SMILE, too.

Our friend Lizard is like the guy who wants to pay 30 grand for a maserati. If maserati isn't selling enough cars, they'll lower the price, maybe to something he's willing to pay. If they are selling enough at the present price, then he just needs to shut up; he doesn't get to have a maserati for 30 grand just because he wants one.

[Gfactor]

Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren't even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions.

This was reported, but it's too mild to constitute abuse.

Gfactor
General Questions Moderator

[aruvqan]

Oh, God, yes. I'm the secretarial services and word processing manager for a fair-sized Manhattan law firm, so I'm involved in quite a bit of secretarial hiring. I see quite a bit of this. And even when I don't, I'll get an e-mail from some secretary who's going to be late or out sick, and it will be from some address like "HQQTRS@freebie.com", or (more likely) "luvzfuzzykutekittens@makemesick.com". The e-mail will say "hi! I'm not feeling well today and won't be coming in." If I'm lucky, she'll include her actual real name somewhere so I'll know exactly which cute kitty lover won't be in today.

Sweet jebus ... I have a professional email I use [my real name at my isp] and my recreational one [aruvqan, it tends to be the name I use in different online games and forums] and a couple of these generated random ones earthlink hands out to register at websites to collect all the spam.

I have a work mailing list email template for contacting my job in case i cant log in to my works remote server and use the email function on my desktop ... and that way I have documentation I emailed, and I always leave VM with my appropriate people.

[smiling bandit]

I bet the pay is crap anyway. :D

And that's basically my point, smily aside. Or included.

It's pointless. Online applications have maybe a tiny, half-percent chance of success. COmpanies who make you do it have basicaly said not to bother them. If they then further tell you not to call, it's because they don't care. I usually have questions about the position, workplace, duties, etc that the ad doesn't answer.

[Captain Carrot]

I didn't misconstrue shit. I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.
Heaven forbid that an employer treat me as a person, instead of a worthless replaceable cog. Ayn Rand is full of shit.

[Algher]

And that's basically my point, smily aside. Or included.

It's pointless. Online applications have maybe a tiny, half-percent chance of success. COmpanies who make you do it have basicaly said not to bother them. If they then further tell you not to call, it's because they don't care. I usually have questions about the position, workplace, duties, etc that the ad doesn't answer.

1/2 percent? That sounds about right. I get 200 applications for an entry level position, only going to hire 1 = 0.5% success rate.

I do NOT have time to answer 200 phone calls for an entry level position.

[asterion]

Couple thoughts. First, the spread in Master's degrees is interesting. My father has a Master's (of course, he got it 40 years ago) in physics and picked it up by the age of 23. My brother is two years younger than me and now has a Master's in English at 24, but I think he automatically got that after finishing a year of grad school. (He's still in school, working on a PhD.) I also have a Master's degree. Mine is in chemistry but I didn't get it until I was 26. Though in my case, it's more because I didn't start undergrad until 19 (birthday was right on the cusp for kindergarten and I was basically redshirted as a result), meaning I didn't start grad school until 23, and even then 3 years isn't horribly long for a Master's in a hard science requiring a thesis.

Second, I got a job through online applications. Sure, I put in a ton of applications and didn't hear back from a significant amount, though I'd say that I eventually got rejection emails for most after a month or two. I also had six or seven interviews at job fairs during ACS national meetings, none of which went any further. My online applications got me two site interviews, one of which got me the job I'm in now.

[Rand Rover]

Heaven forbid that an employer treat me as a person, instead of a worthless replaceable cog. Ayn Rand is full of shit.

Thanks for once again displaying your vegetablian reasoning ability.

1. We are talking about how potential employers treat job seekers, not how employers treat employees. Therefore, your post (much like all your other posts and probably similar to your life outside the SDMB) is completely irrelevant.

2. Neither Ayn Rand nor Objectivism require or specifically condone treating an employee badly. In fact, by emphasizing the exchange of value between people (as opposed to the forced extraction of value) and the inherent worth of the individual, Objectivist business practices actually would treat employees better than typical liberal douche infantile coddling business practices.

3. I wouldn't hire you to sort my socks, not even the dirty ones.

[kittenblue]

A few years back, after reviewing a really bad application for a part-time retail job, I posted a thread about how people really need to use a more professional email address for work-related things, and so many Dopers posted to say they thought they should not be forced to give up an email account they'd had since highschool and pretend to be "someone they aren't" just to get a job. I was really surprised with the number of people who said they didn't want to have to check a second email account, even for the chance at earning a living.

[furt]

Yes, you are correct, I DO feel entitled. I'm the one who shelled out thousands for a college degree. I'm the one who IS smart enough to write a resume/spellcheck the resume/brush my teeth for the interview/dress well for the interview. In return, I expect to be able to get a call returned by a human being. In short, I expect to be TREATED like a human being, not an interchangeable machine.

People who tolerate being treated like shit (which is how applying online is treating them, as posters like Quintas have pointed out) will never be treated any better. More people should feel as entitled as I do.If you mkae it to the interview stage, I'd suggest you tell them all about this. Really. I'm sure it'll make a great impression.


/just got 2nd job
//applied online
///was overqualified
////treated quite well, thanks

[Rand Rover]

This was reported, but it's too mild to constitute abuse.

Gfactor
General Questions Moderator

FYI if anyone's curious, I didn't report this post (even though I was the screwee, as it were). I don't care for the new rules, so I'm not going to report posts where people may violate them.

(And this post is probably a violation of the new rules for all I know. You'll never take me alive, coppers!)

[Uzi]

I thought that was legal in Yemen.

It depends who they are and which tribe they are affiliated with (You think I'm joking, don't you? I'm not entirely sure myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.)

[Jayn_Newell]

I was really surprised with the number of people who said they didn't want to have to check a second email account, even for the chance at earning a living.It's rather impractical, really. I check my main account religiously--anything sent there will be seen within hours unless I'm out of town. If I created a second account just for job-hunting any replies might not get seen for days, if at all, because I'm likely to quickly fall out of the habit of checking it regularly.

You want to get in touch with me promptly, right? Then you're getting my current address in my contact info.

(Of course, if its something truly offensive, you might want to rethink that whole second account thing.)

[GorillaMan]

It's rather impractical, really. I check my main account religiously--anything sent there will be seen within hours unless I'm out of town. If I created a second account just for job-hunting any replies might not get seen for days, if at all, because I'm likely to quickly fall out of the habit of checking it regularly.
Is it really so taxing to have an email client running, so that all messages from multiple accounts (including Google Mail ones) are ready and waiting for you?

[Rand Rover]

Is it really so taxing to have an email client running, so that all messages from multiple accounts (including Google Mail ones) are ready and waiting for you?

How dare you imply that a job seeker should expend effort to find employment! An employer is just supposed to hire any bum on the street and then keep him employed for life even when it is no longer profitable to do so. You, sir, need to find yourself a new message board with that attitude.

[DogMom]

It's rather impractical, really. I check my main account religiously--anything sent there will be seen within hours unless I'm out of town. If I created a second account just for job-hunting any replies might not get seen for days, if at all, because I'm likely to quickly fall out of the habit of checking it regularly.

You want to get in touch with me promptly, right? Then you're getting my current address in my contact info.

(Of course, if its something truly offensive, you might want to rethink that whole second account thing.)

FYI, Google Mail now has the ability to view multiple accounts from a single account. I've set that up and anything sent to my "job hunting" account shows up in my "home" account with a label tag automatically affixed to it that says it's from the Job Hunting Account.
And, with the new feature, you can also set it up to send from ANY of the multiple addresses, so that you don't even have to leave your "regular" account to send an email from your "professional" account.
Nifty feature.

[Chimera]

Just to note that while I got one job interview off Craigslist, I had more issues with sending a resume to a gmail address only to have them attempt to send me to a phony "SuperJobCareerSite!" website that was merely a phishing scam. After a while I just automatically assumed that any job asking me to send a resume to a gmail address was a scam.

[Jayn_Newell]

FYI, Google Mail now has the ability to view multiple accounts from a single account. I've set that up and anything sent to my "job hunting" account shows up in my "home" account with a label tag automatically affixed to it that says it's from the Job Hunting Account.Hmm. Looks like Hotmail has a similar feature. Go figure. I may have to fiddle around with that.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Disturbingly enough, I'm going to agree with Rand Rover.

Employers have to cut down the applicants somehow, they don't have time to allow a full vetting process for each one, not when they can simply eliminate those severly unqualified/unmotivated with a simple online hoop.

[Oakminster]

FYI if anyone's curious, I didn't report this post (even though I was the screwee, as it were). I don't care for the new rules, so I'm not going to report posts where people may violate them.

(And this post is probably a violation of the new rules for all I know. You'll never take me alive, coppers!)

I reported it. My opinion on the new rules is well known. Did it to make a point. Will likely continue to do that sort of thing. As a result, we now have precedent that "Screw you" is not warnable under the new rules. Odds are good someone will earn a "Screw You" from me at some point...and when I give it, I'll be linking to Gfactor's ruling in the event another mod sees it differently. It's part of the Snuggly Puppy Rebellion of 2009.

[LonesomePolecat]

I didn't misconstrue shit. I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.
'Cuz self-respect is just so overrated. :rolleyes:

To quote e.e. cummings, there is some shit i will not eat.

[sachertorte]

I understand the cog people (when I was in the position to hire, I found reading resume after resume dull) and I understand the I don't want to be a cog people (companies can be terrible at the way they treat prospective employees).
Bottom line is, online applications are a waste of time. Don't call and annoy a stranger though, if you want the position, find someone you know on the inside. Ask all your friends if they know anyone who works at the place where the job is (Friend of a friend is probably the limit of how far you want to go). Get that friend of a friend to hand deliver your resume to the hiring manager. In other words, skip to the good part.

Of course hiring procedures vary depending on position and industry, but if you can skip over HR and get to the person who will make the ultimate decision, then you've spent your time much more wisely.

[Kaio]

I think it's bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job.

Um. Wow. God forbid anyone should desire not to be demeaned. :eek:

Did you seriously just post that in public??

We are talking about how potential employers treat job seekers, not how employers treat employees. Therefore, your post (much like all your other posts and probably similar to your life outside the SDMB) is completely irrelevant.

Gee, and here I thought we were talking about how people treat other people. I didn't realize someone becomes sub-human and worthy of being demeaned when looking for a job.

Seriously, you just overloaded my brain circuits. You think it's BAD to not want to be demeaned? To expect respectful treatment? Really?? Good lord.

[pulykamell]

Um. Wow. God forbid anyone should desire not to be demeaned. :eek:

Did you seriously just post that in public??



Gee, and here I thought we were talking about how people treat other people. I didn't realize someone becomes sub-human and worthy of being demeaned when looking for a job.

Seriously, you just overloaded my brain circuits. You think it's BAD to not want to be demeaned? To expect respectful treatment? Really?? Good lord.

Yes, that sounds silly, but the context of the whole discussion with Rand Rover (whom I actually agree with, more or less, in this thread) is that emailing a resume is seen as demeaning. Really? Emailing a resume is demeaning? I've only once had to deal with emailing a resume (at the University of Chicago) for a job, and they promptly called me in for an interview. Didn't think there was anything demeaning at all about it. In fact, I kind of liked it. (I didn't get that job, but it worked out well, in the end.)

[Bosstone]

Yes, that sounds silly, but the context of the whole discussion with Rand Rover (whom I actually agree with, more or less, in this thread) is that emailing a resume is seen as demeaning. Really? Emailing a resume is demeaning? I've only once had to deal with emailing a resume (at the University of Chicago) for a job, and they promptly called me in for an interview. Didn't think there was anything demeaning at all about it. In fact, I kind of liked it. (I didn't get that job, but it worked out well, in the end.)I've been reading the thread in fits and starts, but as far as I'm aware what's being called demeaning is the cheapass online application systems many companies use now in lieu of resumes. They're fine for entry-level positions, but not so much for mid and upper-level.

[corkboard]

1. [Blah blah blah.]

2. [Blah blah blah.]

3. I wouldn't hire you to sort my socks, not even the dirty ones.

You really seem to have several demeaning, mundane jobs that you need help with. Do you have an online application somewhere that I can fill out?

Personally, I agree with Lizard. I worked hard for my education and experience, and object to the fill-in-the-blank application process that any resu-bot could complete. Do I feel I'm entitled to more of a human approach? You're damn right, I do. I deserve it.

[Rand Rover]

Yes, that sounds silly, but the context of the whole discussion with Rand Rover (whom I actually agree with, more or less, in this thread) is that emailing a resume is seen as demeaning. Really? Emailing a resume is demeaning?
)

Yes, that's what I meant. I should have put "nondemeaning" in quotes in that post above.

Also, to the Rand Rover detractors:

1. You should read (and understand) the maserati example I posted above.

2. I wouldn't hire any of you to return my videotapes.

[Rand Rover]

You really seem to have several demeaning, mundane jobs that you need help with. Do you have an online application somewhere that I can fill out?

Personally, I agree with Lizard. I worked hard for my education and experience, and object to the fill-in-the-blank application process that any resu-bot could complete. Do I feel I'm entitled to more of a human approach? You're damn right, I do. I deserve it.

1. Unbeknownst to many, the SDMB is actually just an elaborate online application process to be my butler (but just until technology can replace my current monkey butler with a robot monkey butler.

2. You need to read and understand the maserati example. By looking for a job you are participating in a market, sodon't cry to me that green beans are a dollar when you'd rather apply in person (if you get my drift).

3. Blah blah blah.

4. I would probably hire you as a court jester, but NO BENEFITS!

[Jack Batty]

I would never work for anyone who refers to themselves in the third person on a message board.

[katannah]

FYI, Google Mail now has the ability to view multiple accounts from a single account. I've set that up and anything sent to my "job hunting" account shows up in my "home" account with a label tag automatically affixed to it that says it's from the Job Hunting Account.
And, with the new feature, you can also set it up to send from ANY of the multiple addresses, so that you don't even have to leave your "regular" account to send an email from your "professional" account.
Nifty feature.

I love this. I have my elderly Comcast account, my paid (sorta, it's off my website) freelancing account, and my moderator account from another forum all forwarded to my gmail account.

Just agreeing/endorsing/adding that your multiple accounts can be from several different sources rather than just from Google mail.

[Algher]

You really seem to have several demeaning, mundane jobs that you need help with. Do you have an online application somewhere that I can fill out?

Personally, I agree with Lizard. I worked hard for my education and experience, and object to the fill-in-the-blank application process that any resu-bot could complete. Do I feel I'm entitled to more of a human approach? You're damn right, I do. I deserve it.

Here is the problem - some people really screw up their resumes and make them hard to follow.

I want the company, the titles you held, the time periods and the accomplishments you achieved. I want those in easy to find places.

I want your actual degrees, not just that you attended a particular school - did you graduate? I also want your major.

I want the best phone, address and email for contact.

If you are under the age of 30, you should be able to get that onto one page. If you are over the age of 40, you are probably hitting two pages of experience now. 3 pages only counts for PhDs or for the attachment of patents or other exhibits.

I don't use online forms, but I do insist on emailing a resume with a good email. I don't want it mailed, I don't want a phone call (cuts into my SDMB surfing time), and I don't want a FedEx package.

Once you INTERVIEW, you get treated as a human. Prior to that you are a piece (or two) of 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper that we are hoping might represent a human being that we want to share our space with every day. The only way to jump to human status is to come in through one of my employees or through my network.

It sucks, but that is life.

[Rand Rover]

I would never work for anyone who refers to themselves in the third person on a message board.

You are being very un-Dude.

[Spiny Norman]

I've been reading the thread in fits and starts, but as far as I'm aware what's being called demeaning is the cheapass online application systems many companies use now in lieu of resumes. They're fine for entry-level positions, but not so much for mid and upper-level.

Yup. I did my fair share of jobhunting as I arrived on the US' rosy shores, and the online application system tend to be absolutely appalling. Who's going to complain? Certainly not those applicants trying to win the favor of a prospective employee.

Reformatting the information in my carefully crafted resume to fit into some HR drone's preconceived notion of what a network professional's resume ought to look like gets really tiresome roughly the third time. Particularly when the systems won't let you cut-and-paste - no, you have to pick between a dozen not-quite-right options in 50 different pull-down menus. (Playing "Hunt the misspellings" was always fun, though. The job descriptions tend to be filled with the sort of grammar that'd get an application tossed. But I digress.) The hit rate was ridiculously low, too, so I judged it a bad use of my time.

E-mailing a resume is no problem at all and I've certainly done so at any number of occasions.

Taking a broader view, what people like Rand Rover seem to miss is that the power gap between job hunter and potential employer is huge and understood quite well by both parties. Which is why reasonably polite people, when faced with the task of picking a new employee, do their best to not rub it in. Besides being basically uncouth, it's counterproductive. The market works both ways. Those who treat jobhunters like crap presort the applicant pool. A company projecting an attitude of "applicants can expect demeaning treatment" is pretty much broadcasting that employees will be treated poorly, too.

And so those job hunters qualified enough to get a job elsewhere will do so. While the Ayn Rand fanboys don't understand why they don't get the pick of the crop and have to go through life with their socks sorted by the guy who couldn't find anything else and who can't wait to be elsewhere.

[pulykamell]

I've been reading the thread in fits and starts, but as far as I'm aware what's being called demeaning is the cheapass online application systems many companies use now in lieu of resumes. They're fine for entry-level positions, but not so much for mid and upper-level.

That's kind of what U of C had going. It was a generalized online application system for many/most university jobs. It was a bit of a pain in the ass, but I hardly felt insulted as a human being for going through the system. I figured, hey, they have a standardized application process that works for them, I'm the one who wants the job, the pay is good, the fringe benefits are fine (half off university classes, free classes if it's related to the job), the people I know who work there like their jobs, who am I to complain?

Now, I totally agree that the company should treat its employees well if it wants good employees. But something like an online employment application doesn't strike me as being egregious.

[Rand Rover]

Taking a broader view, what people like Rand Rover seem to miss is that the power gap between job hunter and potential employer is huge and understood quite well by both parties. Which is why reasonably polite people, when faced with the task of picking a new employee, do their best to not rub it in. Besides being basically uncouth, it's counterproductive. The market works both ways. Those who treat jobhunters like crap presort the applicant pool. A company projecting an attitude of "applicants can expect demeaning treatment" is pretty much broadcasting that employees will be treated poorly, too.

And so those job hunters qualified enough to get a job elsewhere will do so. While the Ayn Rand fanboys don't understand why they don't get the pick of the crop and have to go through life with their socks sorted by the guy who couldn't find anything else and who can't wait to be elsewhere.

Whatever gave you the impression that I don't fully understand this? Your post gave me the impression that you are a remarkably unintelligent individual.

[Spoons]

3. I wouldn't hire you to sort my socks, not even the dirty ones.Well, the pay stinks!

2. I wouldn't hire any of you to return my videotapes.I sure won't get wound up over that!

:D

C'mon--those had to be said.

[Millit the Frail]

That's kind of what U of C had going. It was a generalized online application system for many/most university jobs. It was a bit of a pain in the ass, but I hardly felt insulted as a human being for going through the system. I figured, hey, they have a standardized application process that works for them, I'm the one who wants the job, the pay is good, the fringe benefits are fine (half off university classes, free classes if it's related to the job), the people I know who work there like their jobs, who am I to complain?

Now, I totally agree that the company should treat its employees well if it wants good employees. But something like an online employment application doesn't strike me as being egregious.

I'll add that I got my first job after college through this very online application system, and that it was a kick-ass job that I loved and only left because I had to move halfway across the country. I was employed the week I graduated.

I've since gotten another awesome job via Craigslist (left that one to go back to school), and I just had an interview on Tuesday that came from an online application. I'm having a tough time finding a job right now, but I still think I'll be employed in a few weeks, all thanks to online apps. (Check back with me though....even RNs are suffering in this economy.)

Yes, they're a PITA and kind of de-humanizing, but the cream really does rise to the top, and if you're who they're looking for, you can and will get the job.

[katannah]

Well, the pay stinks!

I sure won't get wound up over that!

:D

C'mon--those had to be said.

Terrible!

:D

[Spiny Norman]

Whatever gave you the impression that I don't fully understand this?

Your posts. You're arguing that it's somehow unreasonable to expect non-demeaning treatment in a professional setting, which doesn't exactly strike me as insightful.

Your post gave me the impression that you are a remarkably unintelligent individual.

Your opinion is duly noted.

[Martini Enfield]

I've had mixed results with on-line applications.

On one hand, they're usually fairly quick to fill out, but on the other hand I've had far too many applications for jobs I am most definitely qualified for (Wanted: Assistant Manager with at least 12 months experience working in Electronics Retail) vanish into the ether.

Then again, I got my Assistant Manager's job online, and they were surprisingly quick about it- I applied on a Tuesday, got a phone call on the Thursday for an interview on Monday and got the "You're Hired" call on Tuesday.

So I won't say that on-line applications are a complete waste of time, but I certainly don't like the formulaic ones that are full of options that don't quite apply and still want you to attach a copy of your resume, even though you've basically typed all the information in your resume into their forms already anyway.

[corkboard]

I read the Maserati hypothetical the first time through, and it was a stupid analogy and not worth commenting on. But at your insistence, I went back and read it again.

Nope, no different.

Here's a more accurate analogy: Our friend Lizard is like the guy who wants to pay 30 grand for a Honda. So he goes to the Honda dealership and sees that they expect Lizard to pay 60 grand for one, because they're Honda, doesn't Lizard realize that? And Honda can charge anything they want to for a car, and expect the world to pay it and be happy about it. And you know what? There will be plenty of numbskulls who will pay it. But Lizard decides, I've worked too hard for my money to spend 60 grand of it on a Honda. And he walks across the street to the Toyota dealership and pays 30 grand for a car. And the dealership was happy about it.

[Rand Rover]

Your posts. You're arguing that it's somehow unreasonable to expect non-demeaning treatment in a professional setting, which doesn't exactly strike me as insightful.

Dude, I'm the one that introduced the concept of a market in this thread, so of course I realice the market goes both ways. Your post was not some exciting revelation that I hadn't thought about before.

Also, you suffer from the SDMB low-thinking malady that lots of liberal douches here have. That is, I said something that was not "pro job seeker," so you decided I was "pro-employer" and reacted accordingly.

[Enderw24]

Dude, I'm the one that introduced the concept of a market in this thread, so of course I realice the market goes both ways. Your post was not some exciting revelation that I hadn't thought about before.

Also, you suffer from the SDMB low-thinking malady that lots of liberal douches here have. That is, I said something that was not "pro job seeker," so you decided I was "pro-employer" and reacted accordingly.

A number of us in this thread have taken a reading comprehension stance.

If it makes me a liberal douche to parse a fairly straightforward sentence in the way the poster intended rather than go off on an "entitlement" rant that no one but you have been claiming, well...then just shove me up into a hippy vagina.

[Jackmannii]

I spent an hour helping a friend fill out the online app for the local Valvoline Instant Oil Change place. Seemed like the "test" took forever and there were reams of personality trait questions. The one I'd be most interested in hearing the answer to is: "True or false: my personality is such that I wouldn't care too much if I forgot to screw in the oil filter beyond a token half-turn and the customer's oil poured out in a stream while he was on the interstate, frying his engine before he could figure out what was happening."

I would've flunked the Keirsey temper test after that event.

[melodyharmonius]

We accept in-person applications at our location. We don't have any open positions right now, and we don't post online when we do have open positions. We pull from our hiring pool of applications. I tell people who hand me an application that it is "valid" for 30 days. If they still want me to consider them after 30 days, they just have to call me and tell me they are still interested.

That being said, I just hired 3 people from my hiring pool to replace employees that we had to let go.

I meet great people every day who really need a job. And then I meet people who show up at my location looking like crap, with a half-completed mess of an application and a typo-strewn resume or cover letter. Before they leave my office, I mark on their application whether I was impressed or not.

I have one guy who faxes his resume to me every few months with no cover letter and no application. I would never hire him - because he shows no desire to actually apply for a job, he's just announcing his existence in the world to me.

However, I'll also tell you the story about the guy who walked in our office by accident while looking for another company. He was well-groomed - even though he was in jeans, well-spoken, and thought enough to ask if we were hiring. He sat down and filled out the application, was polite not presumptive, and even though we were not technically hiring, my boss and I were impressed enough to hire him on the spot. He's one of our best employees.

********************

On the other side of the fence - I have been applying for jobs. And I do call after emailing. I will usually wait about a week once the email was sent and just confirm they received my emails and that the attachments went through okay. It's a short, friendly message on someone's answering machine. I make sure to spell out my name and give my cell phone, and just ask if they could email me back and let me know if they received it or if I should resend it.

One of the times I called, it was because the interviewer had asked for samples of our work and I was attaching a commercial I had written for radio. I wanted to make sure the 3MB attachment hadn't clogged up their email. My phone call caused the hiring manager to search through the hundreds of responses and find my email. Then she listened to it and called me back.

Did I get the job? No. But I got an interview back in October. And after the interview, I would email her occassionally in a friendly, non-stalkerish way to just touch base. The result? 2 weeks ago - I got a call from her company. They wanted me to apply for another job because she recommended me. I go for my second interview today (the motivation for me reading this thread - trying to get my game face on.)

So, I think the phone calls can be helpful - if done properly. As for emailing when they ask you to apply online - I will usually only email to ask if the position is still open (usually if I find it on their website, not CL or Monster). Once again, short & friendly. If I get a response back, I will apply online. Because now my name has a better chance of sticking out when they are going through the pile.

Just my 2 cents (and 5,000 keystrokes).

[Rand Rover]

Go get 'em Mel. Good luck.

[melodyharmonius]

Go get 'em Mel. Good luck.

Thanks!

[Mosier]

The cynic in me wonders if some of these inept job seekers apply just to check the "I tried" box so they can continue collecting unemployment.

Some people certainly do this. It's not as easy for them as you think though, because if the unemployment people suspect you're fucking around, they'll start to require signatures from potential employers stating you have applied for a position.

[Lizard]

Your characterization of online application as dehumanizing makes you look like an entitled little bitch that I wouldn't hire to shovel snow. Good luck in your job search good sir. Don't expect to rise very far in your career without changing your attitude.

You really think I would work for someone like you? :rolleyes:

Have fun shoveling your own snow, Mr. Congenial. I suspect any company YOU run will have quite a high employee turnover rate, with all the ensuing costs incurred. But I guess that wouldn't be any fault of yours, now would it? Better hope your boss is as ignorant as you are.

[Lizard]

How dare you imply that a job seeker should expend effort to find employment! An employer is just supposed to hire any bum on the street and then keep him employed for life even when it is no longer profitable to do so. You, sir, need to find yourself a new message board with that attitude.

1 - And you, "sir," need to learn the definition of a strawman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman) before you run your mouth about how "unintelligent" other people are.
2 - I wish I could be around the first time you ever lose a job. Clearly, you think you are master of all you survey, and employment struggles are things that only happen to people less intelligent and lazy than yourself.
3 - You know where a "liberal douche" goes? Right up your girlfriend's pussy, 'cause her conservative cock doesn't give out enough juice.
4 - You can always tell an SDMB rookie. :D

Lizard, who will probably be reported forthwith.

[furt]

Some people certainly do this. It's not as easy for them as you think though, because if the unemployment people suspect you're fucking around, they'll start to require signatures from potential employers stating you have applied for a position.Mailing in a crappy resume for a job you are not actually qualified for counts as a good faith effort. I apply to Company, I tell the welfare people where I applied to, welfare mails me a check.

The "unemployment people" don't suspect shit. They rarely have the time, or the inclination, or the incentive, to do anything other than mail a check.

Once a Millennia, they will call the Company to ask if I actually applied (generally months afterwards). If company says yes, that's the end of it. They are never, ever going to check the quality of my application.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Rand, I totally agreed with you to begin with... and then you starting acting like a tool. Knock it off.

[Shirley Ujest]

I have carpetbombed the HR office of our school district for every non-degree type job that has opened up for months.

I have had several eyes go over my pathetic life on a peice of paper and say, " It's fine. Send it."

So, I hand deliver it.

I have not received one phone call at all. ( I take that back, I've had one interview and it was down to two people for the role of Lunch Lady. My friend, who I didn't know was apply for it, got it. )


My self esteem has been in the crapper like you cannot imagine. until I decided that the Old Lady ( in her 70's) who runs the front desk at HR for the School is probably inserting any resumes that are not family directly into the shredder.

I mean, it is not like I wrote my resume out in Wing Ding Fonts and gave GOD as a reference. I just want to be a fucking lunch lady or something.

[Shayna]

Many, many years ago I had a temp job at TWA's flight attendant recruitment office in St. Louis. There were a couple dozen of us and our job was to open mail that contained requests for applications and send them out in a self-addressed stamped envelope they were supposed to include with their request. Any other information they provided, such as cover letters, photos, etc., were to be discarded in these gigantic trash cans. In fact, the ads they were responding to specifically said not to include photos.

We also had to process the applications when they were returned, phoning the applicant to set up a date for them to come in for the group interview. We weren't supposed to be allowed to save any of the things that were sent in, but I simply couldn't resist sneaking out a few of the more hilarious and outrageous ones. Here are a few samples. . .

Addressed to Transient World Travel Academy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3314479634/sizes/l/)

I will like for you to sended me another application. . . (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313576933/sizes/l/)

I wanted to do this when I was 18 but my mother was afraid that the plane would crash. . . (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3314440152/sizes/l/)

Will my naked butt get me a job? (SFW - very blurry scan) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313616861/sizes/l/)

This person. Loves. Punctuation and, Capitalization. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313616885/sizes/l/)

Iam extremely interested in becoming a Flight Stuart (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313616905/sizes/l/)

Hello! . . . I would be very please if Trans World sented me an application. . . (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3314440392/sizes/l/)

This person makes all their cloths (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313617033/sizes/l/)

This person was concerned about caring too many suite case and lugguges at the same time. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313617105/sizes/l/)

There are many more, but this was all I had time to scan for now. Enjoy! :)

[Really Not All That Bright]

I wanted to do this when I was 18 but my mother was afraid that the plane would crash. . . (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3314440152/sizes/l/)
That one was kinda cute!

[Spoons]

This person makes all their cloths (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/3313617033/sizes/l/)Priceless! I particularly liked "Handeling emergency situations" (I was picturing an aircraft going down while the flight attendant sings selections from Handel's Messiah); and "fling over seas." Hey, why have an illicit home-based affair when you can have a fling overseas? :D

Thanks for the smiles!

[Missy2U]

The type of job I'm looking for is, unfortunately for me, the type that only accepts on line apps. Administrative Assistant Jobs. I have just spent a couple HOURS dicking around with Walgreen's page. You know, if you're going to use some outside company's software to get applications in, make sure the shit WORKS. :rolleyes:

[orderfire]

As a lowly University departmental Admin, I get to review & log all the applications.
Although the logging of vast volumes of paperwork is tedious, it can be entertaining (especially for a high school dropout like yours truly).

Recently, during a search for a tenure-track Assistant Professor, I encountered one that was poorly laid out, full of grammatical errors & misspellings...lo and behold, he's a Ph.D.! From This Very Flagship University! WOO HOO way to educate!!!
Oh believe me, verifying that claim was the first thing I did. Sadly, it was true.
Regardless, he instantly disqualified himself by 1) not including the requested letter of introduction to the search committee chair and 2) when I politely reminded him via email to submit said letter, he replied thusly (and I quote):

Dear Ms. Orderfire:

It is felt that I qualify for this position since I have over 18 years of actual classroom teaching experience, 5 years of educational administration experience and have over 12 years of interacting with students who have disabilities.
Along with my educational preparation, I feel that I am more than qualified for a fair shot at this position in terms of at less being granted an interview to discuss my qualifications in greater detail.

Attached please find my letters of reference.

Regards

(“Regards” no less! Do you believe this guy??)

Well, shut my mouth! Why didn't you say so! In that case, you're hired! Never mind that posted minimum qualification about good interpersonal and communication skills. Or the other one about proven ability to work effectively with diverse populations.

I shared this bundle of joy with my brother who remarked:
“You know, that PhD probably had a problem with an unsupportive admin just like you. She wouldn't proofread, neglected to include those supporting docs and stood aside when he wrote retarded, defensive notes to higher-ups! God it's so hard to get good help these days. Out of my way, underling!
It is felt that that I know what I am talking about. It Is Felt that this is one of many functionally illiterate douchewads who has spend way too much time in academia.”

[Sublight]

Recently, during a search for a tenure-track Assistant Professor, I encountered one that was poorly laid out, full of grammatical errors & misspellings...lo and behold, he's a Ph.D.! From This Very Flagship University! WOO HOO way to educate!!!
Oh believe me, verifying that claim was the first thing I did. Sadly, it was true.
Regardless, he instantly disqualified himself by 1) not including the requested letter of introduction to the search committee chair and 2) when I politely reminded him via email to submit said letter, he replied thusly...

And I'm sure he said to himself:
"Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time seeking out generic letters of introduction. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them."

[Kaio]

Some people certainly do this. It's not as easy for them as you think though, because if the unemployment people suspect you're fucking around, they'll start to require signatures from potential employers stating you have applied for a position.

Uhm, wow. That seems like a really good way to piss off the potential employer and guarantee the job seeker doesn't get the job they applied for.

True story, a few years ago I was on unemployment, but picking up whatever work I could find to get by until I found something more permanent. A lot of freelancing, but not enough to pay the bills. I got some freelance work with a company, which paid well but wasn't going to be consistent. So I had one week where I worked enough that they closed my unemployment claim, and I had to reopen the next week because they didn't have any work for me then.

Now, these people liked me, and liked my work. It was also a direct freelance, no agency playing middleman. So, for legal purposes, I was self-employed, this company was my client. They'd be filing a 1099, not a W-2. I was not, in any way, their employee.

So when I tried to reopen, the Unemployment guy asked me who my employer was last week when my claim was closed. I told them, repeatedly, that it was me. I had been freelancing. I was self-employed. I was working at this company but they were not my employer. They were my client.

We go around like this for five minutes, with me insisting that it's ME who was the employer here, and he insisting that he couldn't put that down. (What, no one freelances in unemployment land?) Finally he says "I just need something to put on the form." Silly me, thinking he meant what he said, finally gave up the name of my client, again reminding him that they are my client and not my employer.

And you know what happened? The unemployment office calls this company up, and starts asking questions, and wants them to pay out that payroll/unemployment fee on my paycheck. And I never worked for them again. I even tried leaving them an apology on their voicemail, telling them that I'd told the unemployment people that they weren't my employers, but it did no good. They never even spoke to me again.

Goddamn fuckers. I can't even begin to tell you how many thousands of dollars that cost me. That was going to be an ongoing, open-ended gig, and I probably would have had work with them for as long as I wanted. Certainly long enough to find a full-time job. And when I called the Unemployment office and told them that they'd just guaranteed I'd be back on the dole for several more months instead of working, they didn't care.

[Really Not All That Bright]

And I'm sure he said to himself:
"Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time seeking out generic letters of introduction. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them."
Since he didn't proofread his application, I'm guessing not.

Anyway, any intelligent person would probably assume that somebody who can't follow one-sentence instructions is a complete fucking idiot and not worth their time.

[dropzone]

(What, no one freelances in unemployment land?)They do. They just don't tell Unemployment. :D

Okay, Hiring Professionals, if "Dear Mama" doesn't cut it as a salutation, what do you suggest? "To whom it may concern" is too 1930s (so you can bet I use it, and continue to be unemployed) and "Dear hiring professional" is too clinical.

This assumes you don't have the company's name so you can't call them up and ask, "What's the name of your head of HR?"

[Martini Enfield]

I use "Dear Sir/Madam"; that was the salutation my Business classes at University taught me to use in the "Specific Recipient Unknown" situation.

[Rand Rover]

And I'm sure he said to himself:
"Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time seeking out generic letters of introduction. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them."

Well played sir. I doubt Lizard et al will understand though.

[Enginerd]

They do. They just don't tell Unemployment. :D

Okay, Hiring Professionals, if "Dear Mama" doesn't cut it as a salutation, what do you suggest? "To whom it may concern" is too 1930s (so you can bet I use it, and continue to be unemployed) and "Dear hiring professional" is too clinical.

This assumes you don't have the company's name so you can't call them up and ask, "What's the name of your head of HR?"

If I don't know a name, I usually open with "Ladies and Gentlemen."

[orderfire]

And I'm sure he said to himself:
"Personally, I find it insulting that any employer thinks I should spend my time seeking out generic letters of introduction. Obviously, they don't want to bother actually looking at resumes, so they shift the work of sorting potential employees into a format that allows them to eliminate people based on pre-determined criteria. I'm sure this works out quite well for them, but not for any intelligent person out there looking to get ahead by learning something new, or trying a different field than the one they're in. Companies looking for people this way are sending a clear message at the outset: Our employees are interchangeable, and we don't care to work very hard in finding them."

Oh snap! :D

We were also half expecting to hear from Diversity & Equity with a complaint from this self-important tool. It is felt that he deserves an interview, damn it!! Isn't that justification enough???
:rolleyes:

Pretty tough competition for the other 57 applicants who were actually qualified.

[orderfire]

They do. They just don't tell Unemployment. :D

Okay, Hiring Professionals, if "Dear Mama" doesn't cut it as a salutation, what do you suggest? "To whom it may concern" is too 1930s (so you can bet I use it, and continue to be unemployed) and "Dear hiring professional" is too clinical.

This assumes you don't have the company's name so you can't call them up and ask, "What's the name of your head of HR?"

I prefer "WHUTUPP YO!!!!" - a real attention-grabber.:cool:

[The Tof]

Back in the day- I was tagged to help hire some additional help at the group home I worked for. We received one resume, which... I am entirely sure he meant to say "Shift Supervisor". However, he left out the vital letter F on his resume.

Proudly notifying us of his time when he worked as a Shit Supervisor.

We had to take time to ponder if he was saying he was not a very good supervisor, or whether he was in charge of poo.

And- I know nobody asked me- but you'll get it anyway re: the Online Applications.

I received my job through an online application. The online application does not HAVE to be completely pointless. Mine was a big pain in rear- including questions which required actual thoughtful answers and not just an entering of your basic data.

I think that an online application can be useful for the employer. Their employees are not spending all day answering phone calls and can work on their regular duties. Much less expense to the company. But the employer does, it seems, owe *something* to the applicant.

The problem from the applicant side is that the online form is so.... cold. It's impersonal. I fill this thing out in my underwear- and then sit and wait by the phone. It doesn't really *feel* like I'm looking for a job. Plus with nobody calling you back (I am sure this is in large part to the great number of applications these companies get) you're never quite sure if things went correctly or not. There's no confirmation that you ever actually did apply for a job.

To me- the perfect process would include some sort of statement back from the company when the application is received by the company- so you at least *know* they received it; then a follow up when the job has been filled. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to fill out some sort of automated database that would send a form letter.. "Thank you for your interest. The position you applied for has been filled. Thank you for your interest. We apologize that we were not able to personally respond to every applicant- due to the great number of applications received... " blah blah blah

That way you are not constantly sitting around hoping things are going ok with the 10 applications you filled out in the last few weeks.

If they don't do this- how can the company not expect that people will want to contact them with a more personal approach. It's the only way you can be sure that the company is aware that you even exist.

Of course- the calls need to be professional and carefully meted out by the applicant. Give the company some time to respond. Call after a few days- make sure they received the application- see if they needed any additional information.

If you are careful to stay professional you can appear interested and make a positive impression without being annoying- and hopefully when your name pops up- you will be remembered above the 100's of anonymous names. (Unless, of course, the hiring people are major league asses) As melodyharmonious noted- if done with appropriate tact and professionalism- it works fine.

Of course, at the present moment it seems people are starting to freak out a little bit and losing what little tact and professionalism they had.

[Broomstick]

True story, a few years ago I was on unemployment, but picking up whatever work I could find to get by until I found something more permanent. A lot of freelancing, but not enough to pay the bills. I got some freelance work with a company, which paid well but wasn't going to be consistent. So I had one week where I worked enough that they closed my unemployment claim, and I had to reopen the next week because they didn't have any work for me then.

Now, these people liked me, and liked my work. It was also a direct freelance, no agency playing middleman. So, for legal purposes, I was self-employed, this company was my client. They'd be filing a 1099, not a W-2. I was not, in any way, their employee.

So when I tried to reopen, the Unemployment guy asked me who my employer was last week when my claim was closed. I told them, repeatedly, that it was me. I had been freelancing. I was self-employed. I was working at this company but they were not my employer. They were my client.

We go around like this for five minutes, with me insisting that it's ME who was the employer here, and he insisting that he couldn't put that down. (What, no one freelances in unemployment land?) Finally he says "I just need something to put on the form." Silly me, thinking he meant what he said, finally gave up the name of my client, again reminding him that they are my client and not my employer.

And you know what happened? The unemployment office calls this company up, and starts asking questions, and wants them to pay out that payroll/unemployment fee on my paycheck. And I never worked for them again. I even tried leaving them an apology on their voicemail, telling them that I'd told the unemployment people that they weren't my employers, but it did no good. They never even spoke to me again.

Goddamn fuckers. I can't even begin to tell you how many thousands of dollars that cost me. That was going to be an ongoing, open-ended gig, and I probably would have had work with them for as long as I wanted. Certainly long enough to find a full-time job. And when I called the Unemployment office and told them that they'd just guaranteed I'd be back on the dole for several more months instead of working, they didn't care.
Where was this? I've been picking up freelance work while on unemployment (and, I might add, truthfully reporting my earnings) and my unemployment office hasn't had a problem coping with the concept of "independent contractor". Yes, I did have to give the name/address of my client, but I've been doing this for over a year and there have been no problems (so far).

[obfusciatrist]

I got my current -- most definitely not entry level -- job by responding to a Craigslit posting from a major financial institution. That response was in the form of an online application and I had no connection at that location.

This thread has confirmed that this makes me a god among mere mortals.

[Kaio]

Where was this? I've been picking up freelance work while on unemployment (and, I might add, truthfully reporting my earnings) and my unemployment office hasn't had a problem coping with the concept of "independent contractor". Yes, I did have to give the name/address of my client, but I've been doing this for over a year and there have been no problems (so far).

Chicago, during the last recession (not this one). Maybe 2003?

Believe me, if it ever comes up again, they will not, under any circumstances, get the name of my client. If they "just need something to put on the form," they can have the name of my freelance business. If that makes their heads explode, too damn bad.

Yanno, if they don't want people to cheat on unemployment, actively creating extra disincentives to honestly report income seems like an extraordinarily dumb move.

[GIGObuster]

As a lowly University departmental Admin, I get to review & log all the applications.
Although the logging of vast volumes of paperwork is tedious, it can be entertaining (especially for a high school dropout like yours truly).

Recently, during a search for a tenure-track Assistant Professor, I encountered one that was poorly laid out, full of grammatical errors & misspellings...lo and behold, he's a Ph.D.! From This Very Flagship University! WOO HOO way to educate!!!
Oh believe me, verifying that claim was the first thing I did. Sadly, it was true.
Regardless, he instantly disqualified himself by 1) not including the requested letter of introduction to the search committee chair and 2) when I politely reminded him via email to submit said letter, he replied thusly (and I quote):

Dear Ms. Orderfire:

It is felt that I qualify for this position since I have over 18 years of actual classroom teaching experience, 5 years of educational administration experience and have over 12 years of interacting with students who have disabilities.
Along with my educational preparation, I feel that I am more than qualified for a fair shot at this position in terms of at less being granted an interview to discuss my qualifications in greater detail.

Attached please find my letters of reference.

Regards

(“Regards” no less! Do you believe this guy??)

Well, shut my mouth! Why didn't you say so! In that case, you're hired! Never mind that posted minimum qualification about good interpersonal and communication skills. Or the other one about proven ability to work effectively with diverse populations.

I shared this bundle of joy with my brother who remarked:
“You know, that PhD probably had a problem with an unsupportive admin just like you. She wouldn't proofread, neglected to include those supporting docs and stood aside when he wrote retarded, defensive notes to higher-ups! God it's so hard to get good help these days. Out of my way, underling!
It is felt that that I know what I am talking about. It Is Felt that this is one of many functionally illiterate douchewads who has spend way too much time in academia.”
:eek:

You are shitting kidding me!

And here I am telling to myself: "you are not ready, English is your second language, you still need to work on your accent". And with less than three years of teaching experience I thought that looking for a better school to teach was not yet in the cards, maybe after getting more certificates.

However.

Your story makes me wonder if in reality there is a valid reason on why I should wait, I should apply elsewhere now and get the required certificates later* when I see examples like the "talent" that is daring to apply nowadays.


Are you hiring? :)




* Some positions I have seen allow for this.

[eleanorigby]

Great stories. The application process online is inhumane, but there's no going back.

I was just recently hired for a second job (I'm transitioning between fields) and I had to apply online. I ended up getting that job (for which I am extremely grateful--more on that anon), but I also applied for a completely different job online with not so great results. Let me bore tell you about it.


I am an RN, with my BSN, and recently obtained my MLS (master's of library and information science). I was sitting in my same day surgery nurses' station last August when I got a visit from God. No, not that God--I got a visit from about 6 suits, one of whom was God, that is, the Chief Nursing Officer of the entire chain of hospitals in which I work. They were on a talent hunt, apparently. We chatted for a bit and it came out that I had my master's and was hoping to use it. "God" took my name and position down and told me to contact Deb X, at a sister hospital, who needed someone like me to do Clinical Nurse Educator stuff and help with Nursing Informatics. She gives me Deb's number and title. She says she'll contact Deb but that I need to follow up. Ok, I said. Thanks!

And here I enter into the hell that is our online website. I apply. I also call this Deb and speak to her for about 20 minutes on the phone, all about the program she is building at this sister hospital, doing some basic nursing research etc. I'm fired up and thinking that this may be a way to meld my nursing and my librarian skills and yet keep my seniority etc. We exchange several emails at this time. She is aware that my master's is not in education, but is fine with that fact, given that the two fields do have some overlap.

She says she's at my site on Tuesdays and will follow up and for me to send her my resume. I do so and hear nothing. I call my HR (interdepartmental/site transfers are handled this way) and she denies ever having received my online app. OK. I go to apply again. No position posted. Huh? I email Deb and update her. She replies that she will follow up with HR.

I wait a week and try again. Position is now posted, I apply, and print out the screen that says app has been received. About 2 weeks has gone by now, but as soon as I get confirmation that my app went through, I email Deb a line or two. I get this in reply:

From: Deb <Deb.I'mStupidButInChargeofThisDept@hospital.edu>
Date: A while ago
To: eleanorigby
Subject: Re: Resume and Job Application

Donna, Thank you for your resume. I don't believe you applied on-line which is part of the process. At this time I need someone with more experience in nursing education Thank you for sending me your resume.


So, I went online again, found this temporary librarian position at another hospital and applied as a lark. They called me, I interviewed and got the job the same day. Now they want me to replace the librarian when she retires in the fall. It's a lovely place and I have yet to have anyone be rude or dismissive toward me, UNLIKE my current place of employment.

So, IME, it really doesn't matter, online or over the phone or in person. It all comes down to the people. I would no more work for Deb now than I would go on the pole to make money for my family. Sometimes employers get what they deserve.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I would no more work for Deb now than I would go on the pole to make money for my family.
New selling point for a career in stripping: no online application process!

[Harriet the Spry]

.... and we don't care to work very hard in finding them."

Since this hiring is taking place at a university, I'm darn sure this part quoted here isn't true. Universities go to almost ridiculous lengths to make hiring hard work, particularly hires of tenure-track faculty. Weeks of person-hours will go into this hire, I can just about guarantee. Typical would be bringing three or more candidates in for 2-day interview processes that involve multiple group interviews. That doesn't count time reviewing applications, negotiating offers, in faculty meetings arguing over who to interview and who to hire... And since they have 60 applicants for 1 position, would you rather they spent more time hand-holding this semi-literate tool, or actually teaching some students?

[Helen's Eidolon]

Harriet, I think (hope?) that Sublight was being sarcastic.

[orderfire]

GIGObuster:


Are you hiring? :)


Sorry, no...state hiring freeze since about oh I don't know...October? Probably never to open again, the way things are going.
But - don't let that discourage you, you're absolutely on the right track. Several professors here are ESL, so keep trying. Anyone can learn the ins and outs of a position, but politeness, diplomacy & personality do open doors that might otherwise remain closed. Good luck!