Looking for name of a movie -- film noir, 1930s-40s

[Lynwood Slim]

Ever have one of those frustrating moments where you remember nearly everything about a movie but its name and those of the actors? maybe someone can help me.

It is a 1930's-40's movie. A roguish man murders his floozy girlfriend and hightails it out of town, with his sidekick, to San Francisco.

They fake identities, and our rogue tries to land a pretty and wealthy young lady. Her affianced sister smells a rat, and enlists the help of detective.

The rest is obvious.

I thought the rogue might be Joseph Cotton, but apparently it is not. Joseph Cotton would have done the role well.

Any help?

[AppallingGael]

Since no one has answered yet, maybe you're confused about several details, and are thinking of Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt.

[Lynwood Slim]

Thanks, ApGa.

No, not Shadow of a Doubt. I know that one thing that would help is names famous P.I. roles, and the actors who played them. The Private Detective in this movie was the opposite of the Sam Spade type; he was a bit corpulent, astute more than cunning. The "un PI" character.

Is there a searachable datebase of all films that made it into major distribution? I would put in all the date I have and see what comes up. I tried IMDB, but their plot summaries are often very terse.

[Ian D. Bergkamp]

This sounds very much like one of Dashiell Hammett's Continental Op stories. He fits your description of "a bit corpulent, astute more than cunning" and the stories are often set in or around San Francisco. I'm almost certain I've read a Hammett story with a lot that fits your description, but it's not springing to mind at the moment.

I'll flip through the books later tonight to see if I can locate it.

[Sigmagirl]

It's not Red Harvest; I just read that one.

[Bumbershoot]

My brother is a big film noir buff, so I asked him your question. He said it sounds very familiar, in fact he thinks he has it in his collection (hundreds of film noirs), so he's going to look into it. If someone else hasn't answered by tomorrow, I should have a title for you once he checks his library.

[Ian D. Bergkamp]

Well, I looked through my Hammett books and didn't see anything matching your description. I also looked through my Chandler books, just in case, but nothing there either.

I still think the plot sounds very familiar, so I'll give it some more thought and let you know if I come up with anything.

[Chefguy]

This sounds very familiar, but I spent the last 20 minutes looking through the synopses of the 4 film noir collections on amazon and couldn't find it.

[Bumbershoot]

My brother was unable to find anything. Short of going through his entire collection, film by film, there's no good way to find it. Sorry!

[Chefguy]

Thanks, ApGa.

No, not Shadow of a Doubt. I know that one thing that would help is names famous P.I. roles, and the actors who played them. The Private Detective in this movie was the opposite of the Sam Spade type; he was a bit corpulent, astute more than cunning. The "un PI" character.

Is there a searachable datebase of all films that made it into major distribution? I would put in all the date I have and see what comes up. I tried IMDB, but their plot summaries are often very terse.

The big names in noir, of course, are Robert Mitchum, Robert Ryan, Joseph Cotton, Fred MacMurray, Burt Lancaster, Bogie, John Garfield, Richard Conte, Lawrence Tierney, E.G. Robinson, Raymond Burr, Sterling Hayden, Farley Granger, to name most of the biggies. A portly guy who is astute sounds like a Raymond Burr character, but that's just a guess.

Upon reflection, I may also be thinking of 'Shadow of a Doubt'.

[Sigmagirl]

Sydney Greenstreet -- portly and astute. But never a PI.
Orson Welles didn't get portly till later, but always had a baby face.
Dick Powell had a baby face and played a PI, but didn't get portly.
Hmmm.

[Mr. Moto]

Sydney Greenstreet -- portly and astute. But never a PI.

Actually, Greenstreet played portly and astute PI Nero Wolfe. But only on the radio, so that's ruled out.

[Bumbershoot]

Raymond Burr was portly and astute, but almost never played the good guy before Perry Mason. Offhand, I don't remember him ever playing a PI.

[Bumbershoot]

After checking his filmography on IMDb, I see that Raymond Burr did play a PI at least once, in Pitfall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040695/). however, I don't think that's the film we're looking for. Burr also played a cop a few times.

ETA: After reading the plot summary of Pitfall more closely, I don't know if Burr's character was actually a "good guy" even if he was the PI!

[NDP]

Thanks, ApGa.
No, not Shadow of a Doubt. I know that one thing that would help is names famous P.I. roles, and the actors who played them. The Private Detective in this movie was the opposite of the Sam Spade type; he was a bit corpulent, astute more than cunning. The "un PI" character.

Sydney Greenstreet -- portly and astute. But never a PI.
Orson Welles didn't get portly till later, but always had a baby face.
Dick Powell had a baby face and played a PI, but didn't get portly.
Hmmm.

Was the actor you're thinking of Laird Cregar (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0187284/)? He did a few film noirs during the 40's.

[choie]

Is it Born to Kill? Lawrence Tierney (Elaine's dad on Seinfeld, btw) plays a dark loner who spots his girlfriend (who lives in the same Reno boarding house he does) out with another guy, after which he strangles 'em both. Meanwhile, Claire Trevor lives in the same house and she's fresh off her Reno divorce already scheming to marry a nice wealthy guy in San Francisco. She's the one who discovers the bodies, but she doesn't want to tell the cops because she's in too much of a hurry to marry her rich dude.

Later, on her way to SanFran, she bumps into Tierney, who's also fleeing. They fall in lust (and Sam knows she's a golddigger whom he can manipulate anyway). When they arrive in SF, Sam meets Claire's half-sister, who's the heir to the family fortune. He tells Claire that he's gonna try to marry the sister for the money. Claire Trevor gets jealous. Meanwhile, trouble brews back in their old hometown, because their old landlady Esther Howard -- who's probably the only decent person in the film -- is horrified at the death of her beloved tenant, so she hires private detective Walter Slezak (who qualifies as portly) to hunt Tierney down for the murders. Tierney's only pal Elisha Cook Jr. is trying to cover his tracks.

It's from 1947 and was directed by Robert Wise (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039211/). And here's an Ain't It Cool News (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37210) description of the film and some posters / screenshots. What do you think?

[choie]

Sorry, too late for edit: here's another summary courtesy of Amazon:

Helen Brent knows Sam Wild is more than a social climber who married her wealthy foster sister. He's a remorseless killer. And yet she finds his brash confidence, square-shouldered good looks and constant aura of menace completely irresistible. Versatile director Robert Wise (The Day the Earth Stood Still, The Sound of Music, West Side Story) shows his film-noir chops with this dark gem whose mix of heiress sisters, stone-hearted men, needy hangers-on and inexplicable but inevitable love plays like a soap opera that refuses to wash itself clean. Walter Slezak portrays the verse-quoting shamus. And Claire Trevor and Lawrence Tierney portray the illicit lovers who play with fire?and burn their names forever into film-noir lore.

I saw this years and years ago, so my own memories of it are a little fuzzy, but I do think this is the flick you're remembering.

[Chefguy]

Is it Born to Kill? Lawrence Tierney (Elaine's dad on Seinfeld, btw) plays a dark loner who spots his girlfriend (who lives in the same Reno boarding house he does) out with another guy, after which he strangles 'em both. Meanwhile, Claire Trevor lives in the same house and she's fresh off her Reno divorce already scheming to marry a nice wealthy guy in San Francisco. She's the one who discovers the bodies, but she doesn't want to tell the cops because she's in too much of a hurry to marry her rich dude.

Later, on her way to SanFran, she bumps into Tierney, who's also fleeing. They fall in lust (and Sam knows she's a golddigger whom he can manipulate anyway). When they arrive in SF, Sam meets Claire's half-sister, who's the heir to the family fortune. He tells Claire that he's gonna try to marry the sister for the money. Claire Trevor gets jealous. Meanwhile, trouble brews back in their old hometown, because their old landlady Esther Howard -- who's probably the only decent person in the film -- is horrified at the death of her beloved tenant, so she hires private detective Walter Slezak (who qualifies as portly) to hunt Tierney down for the murders. Tierney's only pal Elisha Cook Jr. is trying to cover his tracks.

It's from 1947 and was directed by Robert Wise (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039211/). And here's an Ain't It Cool News (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37210) description of the film and some posters / screenshots. What do you think?

I think we have a winnah!

[Bumbershoot]

That has to be it! How did you come up with that, choie?

[choie]

Well, like I said, I saw it a kabillion years ago on either TCM or AMC (back when the latter actually played classics). So the OP's description rang a bell, but I wasn't quite sure I was remembering BTK correctly since the fiancee's sister definitely didn't hire Walter Slezak -- she wasn't that type of innocent, Teresa Wright-sort of loyal character. But some googling of the terms (san francisco, noir, detective, fiancee, murder, sister) did confirm enough of the elements are there that I think it's a hit.

[Bumbershoot]

That's pretty good, for having seen it years ago. Your memory is better than mine- or my brother's! I asked him, and he said he's sure you're right, and that he has that movie in his collection! Maybe when you've seen (and own) hundreds of film noirs they all kind of blend together and it's hard to keep the titles straight.

[Bumbershoot]

By an odd coincidence, Born To Kill is being shown tomorrow on Turner Classic Movies, at noon eastern time. In fact, they're showing film noirs all day long. Lots of good titles, for anyone interested!

[choie]

Oh cool, thanks, Bumbershoot! That should be fun. I haven't seen this in years so it'll be interesting to see how my memory of it stacks up with the actuality.

(Rats, it looks like the OP hasn't been on since before I posted the (possible) answer. So we still don't know if this was right or not!)