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luvrbcs
02-25-2009, 08:25 PM
Did the Star Trek Enterprise (any series) ever travel to another galaxy?

chrisk
02-25-2009, 08:28 PM
Did the Star Trek Enterprise (any series) ever travel to another galaxy?

Yes. The next generation, 'where no-one has gone before.' A pretty silly outing, actually, early in the first season. One of the first to go on about how Wesley Crusher was so special and such a genius. Apparently, once you leave our galaxy, thoughts become undistinguishable from reality, or some such. :smack:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_No_One_Has_Gone_Before_(TNG_episode)

Rufus Xavier
02-25-2009, 08:32 PM
I remember that in the original series, The Enterprise was hijacked by an alien couple who altered the ship in some way so that it could break through "The Galactic Barrier" and go to Andromeda. It did break through the barrier, so technically it did leave the galaxy, but Kirk and the crew got control back before it went to the next galaxy.

Roadfood
02-25-2009, 08:37 PM
In the TOS episode "By any Other Name" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/By_Any_Other_Name_(episode)), they were headed to another galaxy, but I don't remember if they actually passed out of the Milky Way.

In the TNG episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Where_No_One_Has_Gone_Before_(episode)), they ended up in galaxy M33.

There could be more.

Der Trihs
02-25-2009, 08:38 PM
Yes. The next generation, 'where no-one has gone before.' A pretty silly outing, actually, early in the first season. One of the first to go on about how Wesley Crusher was so special and such a genius. Apparently, once you leave our galaxy, thoughts become undistinguishable from reality, or some such. :smack:I got the impression it was a matter of leaving the known universe, not just the galaxy. To a region where the laws of physics are different.

The Enterprise did leave the galaxy in Is There in Truth No Beauty ? (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Is_There_in_Truth_No_Beauty%3F_%28episode%29), when piloted by someone driven mad by looking at a Medusan. It ended up in a multicolored void.

VarlosZ
02-25-2009, 08:45 PM
There was the TNG episode in which Barkley is granted super-intelligence by a group of sedentary explorers so he could hijack the Enterprise and bring it to them to study. I'm pretty sure they left the galaxy for that one.

Der Trihs
02-25-2009, 08:47 PM
There was the TNG episode in which Barkley is granted super-intelligence by a group of sedentary explorers so he could hijack the Enterprise and bring it to them to study. I'm pretty sure they left the galaxy for that one.Actually no; they went to a world near the center of the galaxy.

friedo
02-25-2009, 08:51 PM
There was the TNG episode in which Barkley is granted super-intelligence by a group of sedentary explorers so he could hijack the Enterprise and bring it to them to study. I'm pretty sure they left the galaxy for that one.

Just the opposite in that one: they visited a world very close to the galactic core.

The episode is The Nth Degree (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Nth_Degree_(episode)), FWIW.

luvrbcs
02-25-2009, 08:54 PM
Wow, I love it!!!

You folks know your stuff. I bet I could ask any question on Star Trek and get an answer, with cites, in 5 minutes.

Here's a link to a Warp Speed chart I found that caused me to ask the original question.

http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/warp-chart.html

Dewey Finn
02-25-2009, 08:55 PM
Yes. The next generation, 'where no-one has gone before.' A pretty silly outing, actually, early in the first season. One of the first to go on about how Wesley Crusher was so special and such a genius. Apparently, once you leave our galaxy, thoughts become undistinguishable from reality, or some such. :smack:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_No_One_Has_Gone_Before_(TNG_episode)
FYI, your URL is broken. It should go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_No_One_Has_Gone_Before_(TNG_episode)

beowulff
02-25-2009, 08:56 PM
I was going to say no, but I guess that "Where No One Has Gone Before" proves me a liar.

VarlosZ
02-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Well, that's why pencils have erasers. I thought I remembered the crew looking down on the whole Milky Way from "above."

luvrbcs
02-25-2009, 09:37 PM
Well, now that you are at the M33 galaxy, how do you navigate around?

I assume you navigate by stars, would there be star charts for other galaxys? Travel to other galaxys couldn't have been common, could it?

Simplicio
02-25-2009, 10:08 PM
I assume you navigate by stars, would there be star charts for other galaxys? Travel to other galaxys couldn't have been common, could it?

I'm pretty sure we can resolve stars in local group galaxies now, I'm betting with Federation level technology, they could make a decent star chart.

Malacandra
02-26-2009, 12:38 AM
In the TOS episode "By any Other Name" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/By_Any_Other_Name_(episode)), they were headed to another galaxy, but I don't remember if they actually passed out of the Milky Way.

They did, but even with Kelvan technobabble it was going to take a very long time to reach the Andromeda Galaxy, which was one reason why most of the crew were transformed into polystyrene polyhedra.

Bryan Ekers
02-26-2009, 12:51 AM
Arguably, The Immunity Syndrome (TOS) and Where Silence Has Lease (TNG) qualify.

As an incidental note, the novelization of the second film makes passing reference to a Warp 12 ship which is indeed exploring Andromeda.

And of course Voyager was fond of getting itself stuck in "pockets" and "fluidic space" and whatnot.

Voyager
02-26-2009, 04:01 AM
Arguably, The Immunity Syndrome (TOS) and Where Silence Has Lease (TNG) qualify.

As an incidental note, the novelization of the second film makes passing reference to a Warp 12 ship which is indeed exploring Andromeda.

And of course Voyager was fond of getting itself stuck in "pockets" and "fluidic space" and whatnot.

I don't recall that they left the galaxy - or anything close to it - in The Immunity Syndrome. In fact the space amoeba had just swallowed a Vulcan ship, which seems to indicate that they were close to home. The thing (like the bit space carrot in The Doomsday Machine) came from another galaxy, IIRC.

tim314
02-26-2009, 06:47 AM
There was an episode of Voyager where the Delta Flyer achieved Warp 10 (infinite speed), so they were technically at all points in the universe simultaneously, including outside the galaxy. This has the unfortunate side effect of mutating you into a lizard, for some stupid reason.

Hail Ants
02-26-2009, 06:49 AM
They didn't leave the galaxy in The Immunity Syndrome. The black, starless void they entered was just the energy-drained area of space surrounding the amoeba.

The absolutely did leave The Milky Way in By Any Other Name. There was a very neat shot of the Enterprise hurtling through empty (i.e. starless) intergalactic space with the Andromeda Galaxy in the distance. I haven't seen the remastered version, but just the original was pretty good. The Kelvin technology would have gotten them there in 300 years, amazingly fast even for Star Trek times.

In TOS they always mentioned there being a 'galactic barrier' at the edge of the galaxy. In fact they traveled to it in the pilot episode, but never actually got thru it. Did turn Hotlips and Dave Bowman's copilot into telekenetic freaks!

I agree, that TNG episode with the Traveler didn't have them leave the galaxy so much as leave their dimension altogether. In the one with Negeela, or whatever its name was, I think they did actually leave The Milky Way, but the episode sucked anyway.

Baldwin
02-26-2009, 07:36 AM
I'm pretty sure we can resolve stars in local group galaxies now, I'm betting with Federation level technology, they could make a decent star chart.You could at least have a chart of pulsars.

In "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", the aliens modifed Enterprise to vastly increase its top speed; never mentioned again.

ETA: That silly "energy barrier" thing -- was that supposed to surround the entire galaxy, or just circle the rim? 'Cause if the latter, it's not much of a barrier.

Malacandra
02-26-2009, 07:41 AM
The absolutely did leave The Milky Way in By Any Other Name. There was a very neat shot of the Enterprise hurtling through empty (i.e. starless) intergalactic space with the Andromeda Galaxy in the distance. I haven't seen the remastered version, but just the original was pretty good. The Kelvin technology would have gotten them there in 300 years, amazingly fast even for Star Trek times.

Yes, that shot was good - it gave a very good impression of the Enterprise r-e-e-e-ally belting along. Still, the Quantum II hyperdrive (Niven, from "At the Core" and later Ringworld) would have got them there in about five years by my literal back-of-the-envelope calculations - it allowed a speed of one light year per minute and a quarter, which is about 400 kly yr-1.

Half Man Half Wit
02-26-2009, 07:49 AM
There was an episode of Voyager where the Delta Flyer achieved Warp 10 (infinite speed), so they were technically at all points in the universe simultaneously, including outside the galaxy. This has the unfortunate side effect of mutating you into a lizard, for some stupid reason.
Do Paris and Janeway still have lizard offspring running around somewhere in the gamma quadrant, btw? That must be kinda hard to come to terms with... Janeway: "I always wanted kids, and now they're lizards and never call." Boy, I'd want to listen in on those therapy sessions...

chowder
02-26-2009, 09:33 AM
I've allus wanted to know where The Borg came from, their home planet.

And why do they want to assimilate all beings.

Bastards

Tom Tildrum
02-26-2009, 12:46 PM
In TOS they always mentioned there being a 'galactic barrier' at the edge of the galaxy. In fact they traveled to it in the pilot episode, but never actually got thru it.

One of the novels retconned this into a barrier around part of the galaxy, put there by the Q continuum to keep out something REALLY nasty.

There was an episode of Voyager where the Delta Flyer achieved Warp 10 (infinite speed), so they were technically at all points in the universe simultaneously, including outside the galaxy. This has the unfortunate side effect of mutating you into a lizard, for some stupid reason.

Another one of the novels had someone hit Warp 10 and disappear, and it was deemed that they were everywhere and nowhere. This was not told from the shipboard perspective, though, so it was not revealed whether the crew turned into lizards.

No, Star Trek is not all I read. :cool:

Icerigger
02-26-2009, 01:01 PM
I will never forgive what TNG did to the warp speed values. In TOS although never actually stated in the series but used in the book The Making of Star Trek by Gene R. Warp speed was the cube of the warp factor in times the speed of light. So Warp 1 is 1x1x1=1, W2 is 2x2x2=8c all the way up. TOS Enterprise could reach W9 or 729c the refurbished Enterprise from TMP W12 or 1728c.

When TNG came along Gene R decided Warp 9 sounded fast enough so no ship could reach warp 10 which was infinite speed. So then they were stuck with ship speeds that looked ridiculous.

Enterprise-D W9.96545
Defiant W9.97687
Voyager W9.98767
ENT-E W9.98898

Bryan Ekers
02-26-2009, 01:03 PM
It's altogether unclear to me what's happening the the Enterprise in The Tholian Web. Two kinds of space were overlapping and they were alternating between them, or something. The other Federation ship in that episode in fact did leave this uinverse and fell into the Mirror Universe, as depicted in a much later Star Trek: Enterprise episode.

Prox
02-26-2009, 01:04 PM
A starchart made from the Milky Way would be millions of years out of date for a ship that suddenly finds itself in another galaxy. Of course, since it's Star Trek, there could very well be some sort of subspace telescope to be revealed a convenient point in the plot.

Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager? I saw that episode once but immediately dumped it from memory in some sort of desperate attempt by my brain to keep itself from thinking about it.

Illuminatiprimus
02-26-2009, 03:33 PM
Here's a link to a Warp Speed chart I found that caused me to ask the original question.

http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/warp-chart.htmlWait - what? Using the numbers in that link that means that a ship flying at warp 9.9 can travel 8.36 light years a day. Wow, that's really something. I mean, that's twice as far as from Earth to Alpha Centari, in one day.

Come on! If that's "top speed" then it would take over three years to fly all the way across the Federation (which is 10,000 LY across), so if that's the case how did the TNG Enterprise get from the galactic rim back to Earth in one season? Or indeed get from anywhere outside the Federation and to Earth in one season?

Icerigger
02-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Someone once said the Enterprise flys at the maximum speed the plot demands.

Elendil's Heir
02-26-2009, 04:04 PM
...Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager? I saw that episode once but immediately dumped it from memory in some sort of desperate attempt by my brain to keep itself from thinking about it.

There was some handwaving explanation that going that fast changed their genetic structure somehow (easily reversed by the EMH in the last three minutes of the episode, of course). :smack::smack::smack: Jeez, that really was a gawdawful episode. One of the worst of a very uneven ST series.

I can only imagine how awkward things would be for Janeway and Paris if they ever found themselves on the same turbolift alone together. "So... it sure was fun fucking when we were salamanders, wasn't it?"

Drunky Smurf
02-26-2009, 05:15 PM
Human salamanders are sexy.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Transwarp_humans.jpg

Der Trihs
02-26-2009, 06:44 PM
There was some handwaving explanation that going that fast changed their genetic structure somehow (easily reversed by the EMH in the last three minutes of the episode, of course). :smack::smack::smack: IIRC, they supposedly picked up alien DNA as they passed through the universe at infinite speed. This somehow made them start to "evolve".

snailboy
02-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Here's a link to a Warp Speed chart I found that caused me to ask the original question.

http://www.star-fleet.com/ed/warp-chart.html

I note that the chart for the original series is the cube of the warp factor until you get to warp 21, and then it's arbitrarily infinity. In the later series, it seemed to be slightly over 10 ^ 2log(warp) up to warp 9, after which it seems to follow some other formula (or is just arbitrarily decided) and then arbitrarily hits infinity at warp 10. Warp 1 isn't even exactly light speed but roughtly 1.024 times light speed. Now I'm no mathematician yet I'm sure I could still come up with a single formula where warp 1 is light speed and warp 10 is infinity. But I guess I may be expecting too much from a series where nearly every alien life form speaks English as its native language. (I'm a fan of Star Trek by the way. Just certain things could have been thought out a lot more.)

Bryan Ekers
02-26-2009, 08:30 PM
Now I'm no mathematician yet I'm sure I could still come up with a single formula where warp 1 is light speed and warp 10 is infinity.

Warp speed (expressed in multiples of c) = 9 / (10 - warp factor)

Warp 1 = 1c

Warp 2 = 1.125c

Warp 3 = 1.28c

Warp 4 = 1.67c

Warp 5 = 1.8c

Warp 6 = 2.25c

Warp 7 = 3c

Warp 8 = 4.5c

Warp 9 = 9c

Warp 10 = infinite

It starts a bit slow, I admit.

snailboy
02-27-2009, 12:04 AM
I have one that works a bit better. It could go up a bit faster, but that would probably only require putting in some constants. I'm tired of working on it for right now.

1 / cos ((pi - (pi * (1 - (log w) ^ (1/w)))) / 2)

Logarithm is base 10 and cos is radians.


gnuplot> print f(1.0)
1.0
gnuplot> print f(2.0)
1.5359926748733
gnuplot> print f(3.0)
2.97035214852379
gnuplot> print f(4.0)
5.37505435584105
gnuplot> print f(5.0)
9.22790826127886
gnuplot> print f(6.0)
15.5593035087647
gnuplot> print f(7.0)
26.8039320897779
gnuplot> print f(8.0)
50.2860446565464
gnuplot> print f(9.0)
122.648968630284
gnuplot> print f(9.9)
1441.10915270559
gnuplot> print f(10.0)
1.63312393531954e+16


Okay, 10 is really infinity, but there seems to be a rounding error.

Elendil's Heir
02-27-2009, 12:11 AM
...Okay, 10 is really infinity, but there seems to be a rounding error.

That's just what God said!

tim314
02-27-2009, 12:21 AM
Was there any sort of justification for the Warp 10 lizard thing in Voyager?As I recall, the "explanation" only made it worse. Something to do with Warp 10 super-accelerating human evolution -- that is, evolving them into the lizard creatures that we're all apparently going to evolve into in a few hundred million years or so. Which is stupid not only because it makes no sense but because it suggests that evolution has some pre-determined endpoint, as opposed to being governed by environmental factors and natural selection and such.

That has to be one of the worst episodes of Star Trek ever made.

Prox
02-27-2009, 12:31 AM
As I recall, the "explanation" only made it worse. Something to do with Warp 10 super-accelerating human evolution -- that is, evolving them into the lizard creatures that we're all apparently going to evolve into in a few hundred million years or so. Which is stupid not only because it makes no sense but because it suggests that evolution has some pre-determined endpoint, as opposed to being governed by environmental factors and natural selection and such.Ah, it's all coming back. That's worse than Genesis in TNG. Star Trek shouldn't do biology. Of physics, even.

Icerigger
02-27-2009, 04:54 AM
I don't know, I think I am coming down with an acute case of Barclay's Protomorphosis Syndrome.

Sean Factotum
02-27-2009, 12:36 PM
I've allus wanted to know where The Borg came from, their home planet.

And why do they want to assimilate all beings.

Bastards
Well, I can't remember what planet, but the "why", according to one of the Trek novels that Shatner wrote, is that the V'Ger probe (from the first movie) ended up there. Spock was about to be assimilated by the Borg, and then they stopped, saying it was already done and didn't need to be repeated. Some kind of leftover brain imprint from his mind-meld with V'Ger.

Which brings up another question: I know that the books written for the trek continuum are considered cannon (for the most part) - does that include the fiction books that the actors have written?

Elendil's Heir
02-27-2009, 01:09 PM
I always understood that ST Canon was only what you saw on your TV or movie screen in authorized episodes or movies, except for the animated series. Everything else was NOT canon, including all books (even those written by cast members).

Cerowyn
02-27-2009, 02:23 PM
It starts a bit slow, I admit.Slow indeed! You'd need six months just to reach the nearest star to Earth at warp 9.