Survivor 4/23/09 [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

Tangent

04-23-2009, 08:18 PM

HA! That was so great! Tyson definitely deserved that. An asshole even in his parting words.

I'm really worried that Coach will work his manipulative magic on Sierra next week. He uses her low self esteem to make her seek his approval. I've always hated that kind of "coaching." Breaking someone down and then building them back up really means: destroy their sense of self worth so that they will be emotionally dependent on you.

The only downside to sending Coach home next week is that it would be so much more fun if he was totally blindsided.

Mahaloth

04-23-2009, 08:22 PM

And something coach has not done was revealed tonight, but I don't want to risk spoiling it.

Go ahead. I saw the episode and don't know what you are talking about.

randwill

04-23-2009, 08:35 PM

notfrommensa

04-23-2009, 08:36 PM

Coach has not aligned holes in boards so he can 'spy' a vowel.

it was great to have Probst calling out Coach on his challenge prowes. (lack of it)

Sierra look dumbfounded as the votes were being read. I don't think she had any idea. Which makes it even better.

brownie55

04-23-2009, 08:40 PM

Ring

04-23-2009, 10:37 PM

Oh lord that was wonderful. The only possible improvement would have been for Coach to have gotten the shaft. Can you imagine watching the expressions on his face as it was slowly inserted?

interface2x

04-23-2009, 11:17 PM

Assuaahhhge.

squeegee

04-23-2009, 11:50 PM

That really was awesome. I can't wait for Coach to get all huffy with JT about giving his word as a "Warrior". Eat it, Coach.

And, Jesus, some of these people are just hateful, horrible people. I thought Tyson would start searching for a puppy to kick after his talk with Sierra.

Sierra look dumbfounded as the votes were being read. I don't think she had any idea. Which makes it even better.

I agee -- I don't recall her comment, but it seemed like she voted for Tyson because he was being a dick to her in TC, and she thought her vote was inconsequential, so what the hell, she voted for him. It would have been delicious if JT had not voted for Coach, and Sierra's impulse-vote for Tyson had been put Tyson over the top. Well, probably not -- it would have been a tie, and Sierra and Tyson would compete to make fire, and Tyson would have whooped her, then beaten her senseless with a puppy. So this result was probably okay. EDIT: wait, it was 5/8 for Tyson, so if Sierra's vote put them over the top and it was impulse... well hell, I don't believe that now, the other players wouldn't have risked that.

It was awesome when Jeff started after Coach about his "life experiences," obviously tweaking him as a liar.

Johnny L.A.

04-23-2009, 11:56 PM

Assuaahhhge.

I caught that too. Although I believe a-swazh is a correct alternate pronunciation, I've only heard it in its common pronunciation.

squeegee

04-24-2009, 12:01 AM

I caught that too. Although I believe a-swazh is a correct alternate pronunciation, I've only heard it in its common pronunciation.

What are you guys talking about ?

Johnny L.A.

04-24-2009, 12:19 AM

Sierra was trying to explain her position on the opposing alliance, and Coach said something about her 'assuaging her guilt' or something like that. I don't remember where it was.

Roadfood

04-24-2009, 12:30 AM

I love to hate Coach. He's the biggest, most self-righteous asshole that's ever been on Survivor. Coach, I hope you're reading this.

I really wanted to see him voted out early on, but now I'm so happy that he's still in. Twice now, two times in a row, I've had the gleeful joy of seeing Coach-butthole lose out on a reward challenge that you could see he was just salivating over. First he doesn't get to go rafting, now he doesn't get to see a martial arts exhibition. Take that, Coach-doofus, and that!

And then the icing on the cake, a blindside. Not on Coach himself, but perhaps better, on his little head-up-his-ass "warrior" alliance. I am going to so enjoy watching Coach-brainless get all huffy next week. Take that, ya moron. Maybe it's not a thousand cuts, but three is a good start.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 12:43 AM

I agee -- I don't recall her comment, but it seemed like she voted for Tyson because he was being a dick to her in TC, and she thought her vote was inconsequential, so what the hell, she voted for him. It would have been delicious if JT had not voted for Coach, and Sierra's impulse-vote for Tyson had been put Tyson over the top. Well, probably not -- it would have been a tie, and Sierra and Tyson would compete to make fire, and Tyson would have whooped her, then beaten her senseless with a puppy. So this result was probably okay. EDIT: wait, it was 5/8 for Tyson, so if Sierra's vote put them over the top and it was impulse... well hell, I don't believe that now, the other players wouldn't have risked that.

They didn't need Sierra's vote. If she voted for someone else, it still would have been four for Tyson, three for Sierra, and one for someone else. J.T. said something about not telling Sierra. It generally seems that Sierra is getting the "Sugar" edit, because it seems like no one likes her, for whatever reason.

What really annoyed me about Coach/Tyson this episode was the fact that they kept saying that they were getting rid of Sierra because she voted for Coach. Except they had put this plan into motion three episodes ago and had three people vote for Sierra just in case Brendan used the Idol. All that complaining about Sierra not owning up to her decision and they wouldn't own up to theirs.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 12:44 AM

I really wanted to see him voted out early on, but now I'm so happy that he's still in. Twice now, two times in a row, I've had the gleeful joy of seeing Coach-butthole lose out on a reward challenge that you could see he was just salivating over. First he doesn't get to go rafting, now he doesn't get to see a martial arts exhibition. Take that, Coach-doofus, and that!

I've wanted him to go both of these times just for everyone to see that he knows nothing about rafting or martial arts.

squeegee

04-24-2009, 12:59 AM

I've wanted him to go both of these times just for everyone to see that he knows nothing about rafting or martial arts.

Ditto - Coach showing those pansy-ass dancer/fighters what's what would have been gold. That, or Coach falling out of the kayak in the earlier reward.

squeegee

04-24-2009, 01:04 AM

They didn't need Sierra's vote. If she voted for someone else, it still would have been four for Tyson, three for Sierra, and one for someone else.Gah, my bad. I still think Tyson would have beaten her up with a puppy, if need be.

It generally seems that Sierra is getting the "Sugar" edit, because it seems like no one likes her, for whatever reason.Yeah, I was somewhat surprised by JT's "she's a lying bitch" comment, I'm not sure where his animosity came from. And, yeah, it seems everybody hates Sierra, but not enough to take her to the end to be a beanbag for the jury. Maybe she should kick a puppy or something.

twickster

04-24-2009, 07:25 AM

I was so busy rolling on the floor laughing my ass off at the end I forgot to watch the credits for who voted for whom -- who was the third vote against Sierra?

Also, I've always wondered -- does Jeff pull the votes out in truly random order, or does a producer or someone arrange them for maximum dramatic effect?

KSO

04-24-2009, 07:44 AM

I assume the three votes against Sierra were Tyson, Coach, and their lapdog Debbie.

I think the votes are shown for maximum effect. I assume they pull them in order but then have Jeff film whatever additional footage is necessary to, miraculously, have it come down to the last vote.

interface2x

04-24-2009, 08:08 AM

I caught that too. Although I believe a-swazh is a correct alternate pronunciation, I've only heard it in its common pronunciation.Yeah, I figured as much, but it just fit his character so well in that it sounded pretentious as all get out.

I love seeing people on Survivor talk about playing a noble game by being upfront and not lying. It shows a clear misunderstanding of the essence of the game of Survivor, in my opinion. Lying isn't cheating - it's a big part of the game and it's completely fair to employ it as a tactic. That's like saying you want to play a noble game of football so you won't be passing the ball.

interface2x

04-24-2009, 08:10 AM

I think the votes are shown for maximum effect. I assume they pull them in order but then have Jeff film whatever additional footage is necessary to, miraculously, have it come down to the last vote. From what I understand in previous seasons, once the votes are cast, they take the container back with the producers. They all look at the votes and decide what is the most dramatic way to present them to the Survivors. They said that the lag inbetween votes being cast and being revealed can be as much as 45 minutes. I don't remember where I saw this, maybe the Survivor special from VH1 a couple of years back?

Minnie Luna

04-24-2009, 08:30 AM

Most satisfying Tribal Council ever. The shots of Sierra's face as the results dawned on her intercut with the shots of Coach and Tyson feeling victory slip away were awesome television. "Survivor" at its best.

And Probst's digs at Coach and his 'life experiences', just icing on the cake.

Love It!!

I love to hate Coach. He's the biggest, most self-righteous asshole that's ever been on Survivor. Coach, I hope you're reading this.

Seconded!!

RikWriter

04-24-2009, 10:14 AM

jsc1953

04-24-2009, 10:16 AM

I love seeing people on Survivor talk about playing a noble game by being upfront and not lying. It shows a clear misunderstanding of the essence of the game of Survivor, in my opinion. Lying isn't cheating - it's a big part of the game and it's completely fair to employ it as a tactic. That's like saying you want to play a noble game of football so you won't be passing the ball.

Seconded. Coach...this isn't 16th century Japan. You are not playing to ensure the highest karma levels; you're playing Survivor, for a million dollars.

Does anything come out of Coach's mouth that isn't 100% bullshit? Like his morning standing-in-the-water-posing ritual...that's only passed down orally if you spend time in a Tibetan monastery? Holy crap. Is he even a soccer coach?

However, the 2nd-biggest idiot of the night was Sierra, who received a miracle straight from heaven, totally undeserved. She could've spent 3 days working on alliances. She could've found the bottom of the "warrior" pecking order, and pointed out that they will be voted off next week, whereas I (Sierra) will take you to the Final 3. And that this is the perfect and perhaps only opportunity to blindside Tyson. You know...actually play the game. Instead, she spent her time whining and apologizing for what she did -- which consisted solely of backing the losing side in a power play.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 10:21 AM

I think JT just cost himself a million dollars.
He'd probably already lost Brendan's vote and possibly Sierra's, now he's lost Tyson's, Coach's and Debbie's.
And that would be assuming he got to the final two. As things stand now, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Erinn goes back with Coach, Debbie and possibly Sierra and vote JT off next episode.

I don't know. For one, everyone turned, so unless he's with Coach or Debbie in the end, they all made the same choice. For two, no one here ever seems to be real angry, even Tyson's voted out speech made it seem like he almost respected the decision. And frankly, everyone loves J.T.

amarone

04-24-2009, 10:30 AM

I think the votes are shown for maximum effect. I assume they pull them in order but then have Jeff film whatever additional footage is necessary to, miraculously, have it come down to the last vote. Undoubtedly for maximum effect. I had assumed that they reorder them before pulling them out, but that is only an assumption. It seems much easier than to have to re-edit. And would you be able to get the appropriate expressions on the players' faces unless the votes really did come out in the order that we see?

Note that the first votes counted are pretty much always those that they show when the contestant actually writes the vote. That would mean that they have to decide which of the ones they are going to show before they then do the counting of the votes. Or maybe they do edit to make them come out first.

twickster

04-24-2009, 10:58 AM

As things stand now, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Erinn goes back with Coach, Debbie and possibly Sierra and vote JT off next episode.
Why would she do that? She's on the winning side now -- it couldn't be clearer that Coach is next.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 11:01 AM

Why would she do that? She's on the winning side now -- it couldn't be clearer that Coach is next.

We'll, she probably can't beat J.T., and possibly even Stephen or Taj. She's got a better chance against Coach or Debbie in the end.

Elret

04-24-2009, 11:41 AM

This episode made me sort of sad. Sure Sierra doesn't seem to be too sharp, but she seems like a nice enough person and definitely doesn't seem to deserve to be treated so horribly. I was especially disappointed in JT. What had she done to deserve being called a lying bitch? Didn't JT tell Brandon and Sierra he would vote for Coach last week and then go back on his word? I just felt so uncomfortable for Sierra.

Justin_Bailey

04-24-2009, 12:10 PM

Survivor needs a set of rules for contestants like the Amazing Race threads have.

And if Rule #1 in TAR is "Read the clue! And then read it again!", Rule #1 in Survivor should be "If you're in an alliance, everybody else probably is too, so don't talk about integrity." followed closely by "Do not make potential jury members cry" and "Learn how to make fire before you leave."

Coach fails all three.

jsc1953

04-24-2009, 12:54 PM

And "just because you have an alliance today doesn't mean you'll have it tomorrow." Peoples priorities change after every immunity challenge and every TC.

Coach blew that, too.

randwill

04-24-2009, 01:09 PM

Sierra's edit hasn't portrayed her as a bad person. Not a very clever person, but not a bad person.

as_u_wish

04-24-2009, 03:15 PM

Episodes like this one are the reason I keep watching. The expressions they caught during the reading of the votes were priceless. Even if they switched around the timing for cinematic effect.

PunditLisa

04-24-2009, 04:29 PM

One of the greatest episodes of Survivor ever.

I hope Stephen wins the million bucks because he's shrewd enough to knock off the stronger competitors while still remaining likeable. Even had Tyson continued on with the game, he seemed incapable of suppressing his inner asshole to appease those who would ultimately decide whether or not to give him the million bucks. And he calls Sierra an idiot. Maybe being calorie deprived made him bitchy.

Tyson saying, "I love when people dance before the competition is over" was awesome in light of what happened.

Jeff calling Coach out on his faulty "I want to bring Warriors with me" logic when he voted Brandon out was awesome. And in the previews for next week, he is trying to pin down Sierra to be loyal to him even though he did nothing to keep her in the game.

Debbie alternated between being likeable (at the Reward challenge) to being bitch (to Sierra). I think she was a fool for trusting in Coach because it's quite clear to me that Coach has women issues. He has a barely hidden contempt for them, only softening when they cry because it appeals to his chivalrous side. Trouble is chivalry died with the pilgrimages. There was no way she would have made it to the Final Four with Coach calling the shots.

I, too, wonder what Sierra has done to have earned such universal hatred. I was rooting for her to win the immunity challenge, just to watch the others throw up their pizza, but this was so much more satisfying.

Erinn and JT both seem to know when to flip and when to stay loyal. She's smart but she's alienated herself from Debbie and Coach. He's a good competitor and affable enough to earn votes in the finals.

I'm personally hoping for Taj, Sierra, Erinn and Stephen to be in the Final Four. The 4 underdogs duke it out.

Johnny L.A.

04-24-2009, 04:32 PM

Note that the first votes counted are pretty much always those that they show when the contestant actually writes the vote. That would mean that they have to decide which of the ones they are going to show before they then do the counting of the votes. Or maybe they do edit to make them come out first.

They have (at least) two angles on the person casting the vote -- one a frontal, and one over-the-shoulder. So they can choose to show the name being written, show the name being displayed to the camera with the voter's comments, show the ballot from behind so the audience hears the comments but doesn't see the name, or show the pen hit the paper and then the ballot being put into the box without any comment or showing of the name. Afterward they can choose the shot to complement the ballot-reading.

StarvingButStrong

04-24-2009, 04:52 PM

Another stupidity for Coach, announcing that 'warrior' alliance or whatever he called it. Hello? Did you realize at that point half of the players are women? Why should any of them want to be 'loyal' to you when you've as good as announced they're bottom of the list?

squeegee

04-24-2009, 05:02 PM

She's on the winning side now -- it couldn't be clearer that Coach is next.I would bet that this episode's winning alliance won't consider Sierra to be a member, unless she can get a whole lot better at lobbying and making friends. if Coach and Debra go next, Sierra will probably follow. But the alliance lines have been pretty fluid lately, so who knows?

enalzi

04-24-2009, 05:26 PM

I forgot one point I wanted to make. That was an unfair immunity challenge. Basically who ever went dead last had the best chance of winning by just hitting whoever was closest. I didn't seem slick enough to go bouncing off in another direction.

It would have been better to have mulitple scoring zones and go by whoever had the high score. Or have as many rounds as there were people, mark the location of the closest person and clear the board after each round.

Roadfood

04-24-2009, 05:57 PM

I forgot one point I wanted to make. That was an unfair immunity challenge. Basically who ever went dead last had the best chance of winning by just hitting whoever was closest. I didn't seem slick enough to go bouncing off in another direction.Well, the water clearly made it a completely different challenge than what the producers intended. But still, I totally agree, I even said that to my TV as whatsherface came up to take that last shot when Sierra had the winning position. Given that the goal for essentially everyone at that point was to make sure Sierra didn't win, whatsherface didn't even have to try to win, she just had to try to knock Sierra's disk away. Very, very unfair of the Survivor producers to use that for an immunity challenge. It would have been a bit less unfair for a reward challenge (just because less is at stake), but still, a very bad choice of game all around. Too much depended on just the dumb luck of the order drawn.

Personally (as long as I'm ranting) I think that all the individual immunity challenges should have a strong component of determination and perseverance, rather than just skill at some particular task. The person who really needs it should have at least some reasonable chance to win it through force of will.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 06:14 PM

It seems like the producers thought they had it figured out, by rotating the order each round. They just didn't have it all thought out.

I mentioned this a few episodes back, but next episode would be perfect for a "knock the other contestants" out challenge, either for reward or immunity. It always reveals a lot.

Justin_Bailey

04-24-2009, 11:46 PM

I mentioned this a few episodes back, but next episode would be perfect for a "knock the other contestants" out challenge, either for reward or immunity. It always reveals a lot.

Why those are always fun, I think this year's batch has the knockout order figured out and are constantly changing up the alliances so that doesn't happen.

Mark my words, Erinn makes final 3 and maybe final 2.

enalzi

04-24-2009, 11:53 PM

Why those are always fun, I think this year's batch has the knockout order figured out and are constantly changing up the alliances so that doesn't happen.

Mark my words, Erinn makes final 3 and maybe final 2.

At least final four, depends on which alliance pulls through after the next episode. She's enough of a schemer to keep herself in the game, but not enough to be seen as a threat.

singular1

04-27-2009, 10:11 AM

As always, Dalton Ross's blog (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20274595,00.html) is lots of fun.

levdrakon

04-27-2009, 08:20 PM

Heh. I love Tyson & Coach. Tyson's got the best snark and Coach is just fun to watch. The show's going to get boring fast when they're both gone.

StarvingButStrong

04-28-2009, 12:28 AM

So, let's see....next they have to blindside JT, who is much more of a challenge threat than coach.

Washoe

05-01-2009, 08:56 AM

From what I understand in previous seasons, once the votes are cast, they take the container back with the producers. They all look at the votes and decide what is the most dramatic way to present them to the Survivors. They said that the lag in between votes being cast and being revealed can be as much as 45 minutes. I don't remember where I saw this, maybe the Survivor special from VH1 a couple of years back?

I meant to respond to this last week, but I completely forgot. I know Bruce Kanegai. I’ll ask him about it next time I see him.