Can a .22LR bullet breach a Zombie skull? lets find out...

[MacTech]

This afternoon, I decided to test the theory that a .22LR round could take out a Zombie with a well-placed headshot (http://www.me.com/gallery/#100011)
Rifle:
H&R single-shot .22LR carbine with 18" barrel

Ammo:
Federal Bulk hollowpoints (550 round bulk box available at Wally-World and others)
CCI Velocitor hollowpoints
Remington Yellow Jacket hollowpoints

Targets:
Coconut
Canteloupe

Distance to target:
15 feet, mainly so I could get decent footage from my camera, distance will reduce the effectiveness of the .22 bullet
Weather: sunny, 80 degrees, no wind

I set up each target resting against my backstop and fired at it from a standing position, standard Weaver stance, left foot forward

http://homepage.mac.com/mactechg4/.Pictures/Fedzomskull1.jpg
Federal Bulk Hollowpoints: two shots were taken, the first hit a glancing blow on the top of the coconut, breaking through the hard shell and destroying some meat underneath, this shot sent a small fountain of coconut water skyward, even though this was a glancing blow, it *did* breach the coconut, however it would not have probably put a zombie out of commision
The second shot hit more or less just to the left and slightly below dead center, leaving a small, almost imperceptible entry wound, and a good sized exit wound, both rounds had sufficient energy to enter *and* exit the coconut, doing a decent job of scrambling the coconut meat on the inside

CCI Velocitor: a fresh coconut was placed on the target stand and a single shot was taken, basically dead center, it wasn't as dramatic or photogenic as the first Federal shot, but it did a lot more damage, the entry wound broke away a good size chunk of shell, exposing the coconut meat underneath, and exiting the 'nut leaving a large, gaping exit wound with bits of coconut meat embedded in the backstop, there was little disturbance to the actual coconut meat inside the shell, the Velocitor simply punched through, in the same manner as a solid point/ball round, the Velocitor did a lot more damage than the Federal rounds, there's no doubt that Velocitors stand a fairly good chance of stopping a zombie cold

I then switched to a cantaloupe to simulate "brain matter"

http://homepage.mac.com/mactechg4/.Pictures/Yelojaktzombrn.jpg
Remington Yellow Jacket hollow point: another top shot, hitting the top quarter of the 'loupe, it emitted a shower of eviscera and left a substantial crater in the top of the 'loupe, a Yellowjacketobotomy, as it were

http://homepage.mac.com/mactechg4/.Pictures/Velzombrn.jpg
CCI Velocitor: I fired into the already breached 'loupe, so this shot was not exactly scientific, but it *did* emit a fountain of veggiegore from the gaping, open wound, leaving a large entry and exit wound

Conclusion; from close in, .22 rounds *can* penetrate a hard surface like a coconut shell, and still retain sufficient energy to exit, carrying bits of coconut meat or cantaloupe flesh into the backstop

since the human skull is thicker and more durable than a coconut shell, I'd imagine the .22 round would have sufficent energy to enter the skull, but may not have sufficent power to exit

When the time comes for the inevitable Zombie Uprising, I'll make sure that I have a decent stock of Velocitors, however, it's nice to know that the cheap bulk Federal rounds can pulp zombie gray matter as well....

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Wouldn't it be optimal to enter the skull and not exit out the back? Possibly explosive bullets once penetration occurs would suffice.









Sweet mercy, that second sentence is ripe with sexual innuendo.

[Amp]

I would think not exiting would be an advantage. The round will bounce around in the skull doing more damage to the soft tissue.

[cardsfan1975]

When the time comes for the inevitable Zombie Uprising, I'll make sure that I have a decent stock of Velocitors, however, it's nice to know that the cheap bulk Federal rounds can pulp zombie gray matter as well....
Let me know if you need backup. I just got an AR-15 that I haven't had a chance to shoot yet. And I can think of no better target to shoot at than the head of a zombie.

cf'75

[chorpler]

since the human skull is thicker and more durable than a coconut shell, I'd imagine the .22 round would have sufficent energy to enter the skull, but may not have sufficent power to exit

That seems like the ideal amount of energy for the bullet to have, since it's transferring all of its kinetic energy into the head of the zombie and, presumably, destroying whatever functionality the brain has. Plus if it doesn't exit the skull it may bounce off the inside of the skull and do even more damage to the brain.

Is that correct?

ETA: Appears to be correct from a couple of the posts above.

Plus, hey, if it doesn't exit the skull, you don't get zombie brain matter and blood sprayed all over the area behind the zombie and potentially infecting anybody who is standing off to the side and behind it, right?

[Gorsnak]

.22 is what Dad always used to kill beef & pork critters when slaughtering them. Poor trusting things just stand there watching while he draws a bead between the eyes and blammo! I can't recall a second shot ever being needed. Granted, as soon as they dropped they got their necks slit, so it's not like they would ever have had a chance to recover if they were just stunned. The bullets frequently didn't exit, and would be found somewhere inside.

So yeah, through a human skull with no difficulty. Cows are pretty hard-headed compared to people.

[MacTech]

Let me know if you need backup. I just got an AR-15 that I haven't had a chance to shoot yet. And I can think of no better target to shoot at than the head of a zombie.

cf'75

I'd imagine that 5.56 round would do some major damage to the Reanimated-American crowd :)

I do have more powerful choices in my Ambulatory Cadaver Disposal Arsenal**, but the ammunition is heavier and takes up more space, assuming a .22 works on Zombies, it allows the shooter to store/carry* a lot more rounds with them, two 550 round bulkpacks gives you 1100 rounds in the space that 50 12-gauge shotshells would occupy

and yes, the round only having enough energy to enter the skull, then bounce around inside, pulping gray matter is ideal, the report (noise) of the round firing is much quieter than larger rounds as well, and then there's that whole "lack of recoil" thing....

my 7.62x54R Mosin-Nagant M-44, OTOH, has enough energy to punch through multiple zombie skulls, and has a solid, heavy recoil, as well as a deafening report, it also throws out a 3-4 foot long fireball from the muzzle as well....


*I have almost 5,000 rounds of .22, but I need more ;)
**9mm, .45 ACP, 7.62X54R, 12-gauge (slugs, buckshot and birdshot)

[carnivorousplant]

*I have almost 5,000 rounds of .22, but I need more ;)
**9mm, .45 ACP, 7.62X54R, 12-gauge (slugs, buckshot and birdshot)

My name is on a list for just reading your thread...

[MacTech]

My name is on a list for just reading your thread...

Why? all I use the ammo for is plinking, paper targets, spinners .....and the occasional Zombie Coconut and Zombie Cantaloupe. (Band names!) and 90% of it I've had for a long time, before all the prices went up and panic buying started

we have 50 acres of land (hay pasture mostly) and I have a small target range set up in the woodlot, I can go out and plink with my .22's whenever I want, if I want to shoot my bigger stuff, I have to make a trip to my rod and gun club

[carnivorousplant]

Why?

"50 acres", "Bigger stuff" and "have to go to my rod and gun club" come to mind.




:)

[MacTech]

Okay, fine, Mr ParanoidPlant, just watch out for those Black Helicopters and make sure you have your tin-foil hat on at all times then ;)

[carnivorousplant]

Okay, fine, Mr ParanoidPlant, just watch out for those Black Helicopters

They've already been here, and a .22 long rifle won't do shi...

dammit.

[silenus]

My name is on a list for just reading your thread...


Oh, please! 5000 rounds just means there was a sale at Wal-Mart. I try to keep at least 500 rounds for every caliber in the collection, so that's .22LR, .30 carbine, .32ACP, .357, .38, 9mm, 9X18mm, .40S&W, .44 Special, .44 ball, .45ACP, .45LC...I'm over 5000 and I'm still on just the handguns. I must have 4 or 5 bricks of .22 laying around, which is 2500 rounds right there.


Good thing, because you never know when the Zombie Apocalypse will happen. :D

[carnivorousplant]

MacTech, how'd you get the camera in sync?

[Cardinal]

I assume he ran a video camera into his laptop and then pulled single frames with iMovie.

[Fear Itself]

Why? all I use the ammo for is plinking, paper targets, spinners .....There's a no-knock warrant with your name on it:

Police: Man said 30,000 bullets were for target practice (http://www.eagletribune.com/punewshh/local_story_135220825.html?keyword=topstory)

[MacTech]

I assume he ran a video camera into his laptop and then pulled single frames with iMovie.

Ayuh, that's the procedure, simple, and foolproof, and I'm a pretty good fool....

[carnivorousplant]

Ayuh, that's the procedure, simple, and foolproof, and I'm a pretty good fool....

Again, I am the Poster Child for Fighting Ignorance. :)

[MacTech]

There's a no-knock warrant with your name on it:

Police: Man said 30,000 bullets were for target practice (http://www.eagletribune.com/punewshh/local_story_135220825.html?keyword=topstory)

Meh, that's 5 months worth of plinking/target shooting at the range for me, I typically shoot around 200+ rounds per trip, 30K is a big number on paper, in reality, that would be 60 bricks (500 rounds per brick) of .22 for example, at $20 per box, that's $1200, heck, some people spend that on a single firearm....

or 300 100-round bulk-packs of 9mm or .45 ACP...
$9,000 worth of .45 ACP at $30/bulk pak
$6,000 worth of 9mm at $20/bulk pak

[PatriotGrrrl]

I kept reading Velocitor as velociraptor. I want .22 rounds that will take out a velociraptor. Just in case.

[carnivorousplant]

I want .22 rounds that will take out a velociraptor. Just in case.

If he lives long enough to keep shooting, he has 5,000 rounds. 5,000 rounds of .22 Long Rifle will kill anything, if just by bleeding to death.

[PatriotGrrrl]

Yeeahh, but there is a real caliber called .577 Tyrannosaur, why not one for velociraptors? ;)

[Bear_Nenno]

Why do you assume a human head is stronger than a coconut? A human skull takes half as much pressure to crush as a coconut does. I'm betting its easier to penetrate a skull as well.

[Ale]

I'd imagine that 5.56 round would do some major damage to the Reanimated-American crowd :)

I do have more powerful choices in my Ambulatory Cadaver Disposal Arsenal**, but the ammunition is heavier and takes up more space, assuming a .22 works on Zombies, it allows the shooter to store/carry* a lot more rounds with them, two 550 round bulkpacks gives you 1100 rounds in the space that 50 12-gauge shotshells would occupy

You should get yourself one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbjt3OZydg&feature=related) to mow those undead suckers down.

[MacTech]

Yeeahh, but there is a real caliber called .577 Tyrannosaur, why not one for velociraptors? ;)

The .577 Tyrannosaur isn't even the biggest rifle available, there's also the .700 Nitro Express (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VVOH7Ep_8w&feature=related), in the linked video, most of the shooters are firing the Tyrannosaur, the last shooter (Chuck Norris?) fires the .700 NE

notice most of the shooters are in a neutral shooting stance, just balancing the gun against their shoulder, the last shooter is leaning forward into the gun, pulling it hard against his shoulder to eliminate as much movement as possible, and anticipating and controlling the recoil

[drastic_quench]

.22 is an excellent caliber for the apocalypse. It's powerful enough to kill; gun stores are stocked with .22 semi-autos; the ammo is light, incredibly compact, and cheap; and everyone can become proficient with one in an hour or two.

[Labtrash]

You should get yourself one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbjt3OZydg&feature=related) to mow those undead suckers down.


Nah, my hands are too big for that.

Does someone make a mini gun in .22 ??

[carnivorousplant]

.22 is an excellent caliber for the apocalypse. It's powerful enough to kill; gun stores are stocked with .22 semi-autos; the ammo is light, incredibly compact, and cheap; and everyone can become proficient with one in an hour or two.

I grant you these are good reasons, but whatever happened to the traditional chainsaws and flame throwers? One must have some standards.

[Labtrash]

I grant you these are good reasons, but whatever happened to the traditional chainsaws and flame throwers? One must have some standards.

Aside from the sentimental stuf:

Chainsaws - gotta get within grabbin & biting range to use; Very messy; Hard to control; limited fuel supply.

Flamethrower - after you flame up the shuffling zombie, you've got a shuffling zombie that's on fire:eek:. 'Nuff said. Plus, see above regarding fuel.

[PatriotGrrrl]

The .577 Tyrannosaur isn't even the biggest rifle available

No, but it's one of the coolest names. What fun is a zombie apocalypse if ya can't have cool sounding gear?

[carnivorousplant]

Chainsaws - gotta get within grabbin & biting range to use; Very messy; Hard to control; limited fuel supply.

Flamethrower - after you flame up the shuffling zombie, you've got a shuffling zombie that's on fire:eek:. 'Nuff said. Plus, see above regarding fuel.

Sigh.
As Chaucer is, shall Dryden be. :rolleyes:

[MacTech]

I grant you these are good reasons, but whatever happened to the traditional chainsaws and flame throwers? One must have some standards.

Duh, that's what *accesory rails* are for, geesh, I thought people knew these things, attach flamethrowers/chainsaws/grenade launchers/etc *to* your main battle rifle...:rolleyes::D

[Lumpy]

In World War Z after the surviving humans regrouped and organized to begin systematically fighting back, the standard zombie-kill round was an incendiary .22.
Maximized ammo, although even then using "Lobo", a zombie-killing hand tool was preferred when possible.

[carnivorousplant]

Duh, that's what *accesory rails* are for, geesh, I thought people knew these things, attach flamethrowers/chainsaws/grenade launchers/etc *to* your main battle rifle...:rolleyes::D

Hush. You're in trouble enough with AT&F as it is.




What're you paying for .45 ACP?
:)

[MacTech]

For commercial ammo, $29.95 per 100 round brick at Wally World, but I haven't purchased commercial .45 ammo since I got into reloading it

my per-round cost for reloaded .45 is around .13¢/round at my highest powder charge
per-round for Winchester White Box .45 is around .30¢/round

My .45 target reloads have less recoil than factory loaded 9mm, and are more accurate than factory .45, I load them light for best paper-punchin' performance, I could hand my Kimber to a novice shooter, loaded with my target loads, and they could shoot the big 230 grain bullets in my .45 with no trouble at all

I've turned many a shooter on to both reloading *and* the .45 by letting them try 8 rounds of the "MacTech Load"

I'm in the process of working up a good, hot personal-defense load for a batch of 100 185 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow points, as my target loads aren't really ideal for personal protection (not that I need to carry around here)

reloading is *FUN*, it combines the fun of the old "chemistry labs" of childhood with the fun of *explosives*, what's not to like?
Step 1: deprime and resize the case, and clean the primer pocket
Step 2: seat a new primer in the case
Step 3: expand the case slightly and drop in the powder charge
Step 4: weigh the powder charge to insure correct charge was thrown (4.5 grains of Winchester 231 in my target loads)
Step 5: weigh the charge a second time, any discrepancies between the two, return the powder to the hopper and re-throw another charge in the case
Step 6: place the bullet on top of the case, and seat and crimp the bullet

I don't *have* to weigh the charge twice, but I'm new to reloading and I want to make very sure my reloads are completely safe, so I err on the side of caution, so far I haven't had a single reloading misha....<BOOOM!!!>............


Just kidding, so far, no mishaps, and I want to keep it that way

[EvilTOJ]

I thought I read this exact write up before. Looks like I have! (http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=46332) I thought I had somehow ended up in a parallel universe or there was some glitch in the Matrix or something.

[GaryM]

If you have one of these (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb256/GaryM_photo/Firearms/NFA/P22_Aviator02s.jpg), you can shoot a bunch before the rest even notice! :D

[MacTech]

I thought I read this exact write up before. Looks like I have! (http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=46332) I thought I had somehow ended up in a parallel universe or there was some glitch in the Matrix or something.

So, you make dead things deader too, eh? ;)
It's okay, we talked about this on the internet....

[Shot From Guns]

Psh, wasn't the "enters but doesn't exit" nature of a .22 round specifically mentioned as a bonus in The Zombie Survival Guide?

[dropzone]

Haven't read it, but yeah, "enters and bounces around" is an advantage if one assumes a zombie retains some brain power. IRL, the brain starts breaking down into a buttery sludge almost immediately, and can't be relied on for even the most basic processing. Disregarding the claims of writers of fiction, like Max Brooks, we really must stop concentrating on the brain and consider whichever organ can continue semi-intelligent activity after the brain has turned to pudding. As the liver has long been thought of as the center of consciousness, I suggest we concentrate on it. And as it is so large, and a human can function quite well with one cut in half, a .22 ain't gonna cut it.

[Juniper200]

Your cantaloupe test may be flawed. I understand a medium watermelon wrapped in three layers of glass-strand packing tape reacts almost exactly like a cadaver head in ballistic tests, though.

[Darth Sensitive]

In World War Z after the surviving humans regrouped and organized to begin systematically fighting back, the standard zombie-kill round was an incendiary .22.
Maximized ammo, although even then using "Lobo", a zombie-killing hand tool was preferred when possible.

Indeed, Cherry PIE good. Flamethrower bad.

[PatriotGrrrl]

I think we've all forgotten an essential last-resort weapon.

The red crowbar.

[Shot From Guns]

Haven't read it, but yeah, "enters and bounces around" is an advantage if one assumes a zombie retains some brain power.

Well, given that the overwhelming majority of zombies are disabled only by destroying the brain, it's almost always going to be an advantage.

Unless we get one of your bizarre liver-zombies. In which case, I guess we'd better start stocking up on acetaminophen.

[carnivorousplant]

Unless we get one of your bizarre liver-zombies.

You don't have this problem with flame throwers...
:rolleyes:

[Shot From Guns]

You don't have this problem with flame throwers...
:rolleyes:

Uh, no, flamethrowers means you have ambulatory pillars of flame. A zombie isn't going to go into shock or flee screaming in pain and horror, it's just going to keep shambling until you destroy the brain/liver/whichever seat of consciousness your particular flavor of zombie prefers.

A flamethrower is a terribly. bad. idea.

[silenus]

So an RPG still works, right? Zombie chunks are harmless. Rather hard on the immediate engagement area, I'll admit.

[carnivorousplant]

A flamethrower is a terribly. bad. idea.

Wuss.






:)

[MacTech]

Assuming we're dealing with the Romero/Brooks "Destroy the Brain" type, and not the "Burn the body and all the pieces" O'Bannon type....

As long as no contaminated zombie pieces land on any open cuts or mucous membranes, you *should* be okay, problem is, an RPG or any other explosive...

1: is *LOUD* and will draw more zombies to the area of engagement
2: creates an equal amount of torso damage, so you'll have the additional step of clearing "Draggers" and other "Undead Shrapnel"
3: is not guaranteed to disable the brain on all targets in the area of effect
4: has the potential to toss "draggers" and other high-risk remnants (like a still-able-to-bite head) into the shooters/rocketeers area, putting them at high risk for bites

Assuming the .22LR is capable of breaching the zombie skull and not exiting the skull (as posited in the ZSG, and shows a high probability of working in actual practice) the advantage of a small-caliber rimfire round (a conventional lead/copper jacketed bullet, not the fictional PIE) over explosives is;
1: much quieter than any other firearm/explosive, especially if the shooter has a suppressor mounted, far less chance of drawing more Zacks (aside from the moan, that is)
2: easier cleanup and less risk of Solanum contamination (one small entry hole in the skull, no messy exit wound)
3: no recoil, followup shots are quick and easy
4: the firearm is generally short (carbine length) and quick to move around and get on target for the next shot
5: Ammo is light and easy to carry, and with a magazine-fed rifle like the Ruger 10/22 and a steady supply of loaded mags near-continuous fire is possible and easily achievable, tube feeders are almost as good, but take longer to load, a tube-fed rifle like the Marlin Model 60 takes almost twice as long to load as a 10/22 (assuming you have someone handing you loaded 10/22 mags)

A better setup for both rifles would be to have a designated person do the loading, assign two rifles per shooter, once rifle one is out, they swap for the loaded rifle two, and rifle one is reloaded and ready, in this type of situation, the Marlin would actually have the advantage in reloading speed, especially if a simple "speed loader" tube was used (a piece of plastic tubing filled with 15 cartridges, remove the plunger tube from the rifle, dump in the rounds from the speed loader tube, and replace the plunger tube

That said, explosives would be more fun though, a lot more impractical, but more fun nonetheless.

[bup]

Get yourself a copy of the documentary Night of the Living Dead, the first and best primer on zombie neutralization.

A .22 rifle is great for destroying a zombie brain. It makes a clean entry wound, and immediately disables the ghoul. The lower kick of a .22 makes it easier to aim in a stressful situation, and the minimal skull fragmentation makes for easy cleanup.

Just make sure of two things - first, that you don't act overly slow and zombie-like (that's covered in the film, albeit late), and second, that it's a true zombie uprising and not the raising of all Christian believers as described in the prophecy of the Revelation to John. Because, you know, that could get embarrassing to explain, loving/forgiving God or not.

[Shot From Guns]

So an RPG still works, right? Zombie chunks are harmless. Rather hard on the immediate engagement area, I'll admit.

Depends on the type of zombie you're dealing with.

An RPG is a good idea if all of the following are true:
1.) Only bites are infectious.
2.) Dismembered body parts cannot move independently.
3.) Decapitation will kill the zombie.

An RPG is a bad idea if any of the following are true:
1.) Zombie blood is infectious.
2.) Dismembered body parts can move on their own.
3.) The brain must be destroyed, not just separated from the body, to kill the zombie.

Wuss.

I'll be a wuss with a pile of zombie corpses sprawled in a circle around me. You'll be a Manly Man who is simultaneously burned alive and eaten alive.

I win. :D

[drastic_quench]

If I ever get to make a zombie film (not likely, and not an ambition) I would include a scene where every pudgy imbd-surfing zombie fan marches out of their house with their ludicrously bragged-up katana, halberd, spear, chainsaw, etc. and is promptly swarmed and eaten.

The other thing that bugs me in zombie films and comics is the wardrobe. I know, it wouldn't look at all interesting on screen, but a leather motorcycle jacket, leather pants, gloves, and a full helmet have to be the best bite-resistant clothing that's WIDELY available - especially if you're trapped in, say, a mall. It really bugs me that people who've had time to change dress in t-shirts and jeans.