Best Video (/Computer) Game Sequels? [Archive]

Really Not All That Bright

06-01-2009, 08:32 PM

There's a "crappy sequels" thread running in CS right now, so I thought we should recognize the good sequels in the gaming world.

Extra points if you think of a series where the sequel was really good and the original was bad.

Warcraft, for example- I thought the original was utterly unplayable, but 2 rocked. Taking that a step further, StarCraft (which was really another sequel, sorta) was even better.

I didn't enjoy the original Half Life at all, but god do I love HL2...

I found GTA: Vice City really bad, even though they did a really good job of capturing the Miami Vice ambience and setting.... but San Andreas might have been the best game ever.

Ferret Herder

06-01-2009, 08:46 PM

Baldur's Gate 2 was a big step up over the original, good Baldur's Gate.

Really Not All That Bright

06-01-2009, 08:47 PM

Didn't think of that. Same great gameplay, but a much bigger world to run around finding goblins to slaughter.

Ferret Herder

06-01-2009, 09:20 PM

Didn't think of that. Same great gameplay, but a much bigger world to run around finding goblins to slaughter.
Plus much better NPC (especially with your party members) interactions.

Unfortunately I'm stuck for another recommendation for this thread right now. Hopefully someone else can jog my memory.

Winsling

06-01-2009, 09:24 PM

kasuo

06-01-2009, 09:25 PM

Final Fantasy 2 (4 in Japan) for SNES

kasuo

06-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Reasonable people can disagree on which of the Ultima series was the best, but absolutely nobody thinks it was the first one. Master of Orion II was much better than I. It's too bad they never made a third - I bet that would have been awesome. I've got a soft spot in my heart for Civ I though.

If we go by console releases, how about picking Ultima: Quest of the Avatar (technically part 4) as the sequel to Ultima: Exodus (part 3) for Nintendo?

Mahaloth

06-01-2009, 09:32 PM

Final Fantasy 2 (4 in Japan) for SNES

I would have said Final Fantasy VI, actually. By far, the best Final Fantasy game.

smiling bandit

06-01-2009, 09:53 PM

Didn't think of that. Same great gameplay, but a much bigger world to run around finding goblins to slaughter.

No, it wasn't. There are many good things to like about Baldur's Gate 2, but it was vastly smaller than BG1. Yes, the map was larger, but even counting all indoor areas it was smaller than BG1, where every inch of the map was covered in playable outdoor areas, which usually had at least a small dungeon or two.

I nominate Thief 2. Arguably the best direct sequel of all time, and took the awesome original and made into smething almost sinfully incredible.

Captain_C

06-01-2009, 10:09 PM

Call of Duty 2 was infinitely better than Call of Duty 1, especially in terms of multiplayer. Currently it seems Call of Duty 4 is one of the best FPS's on the market.

Pushkin

06-02-2009, 06:37 AM

TIE fighter as a sequel to X-Wing. Better graphics, more intricate missions and you play as the bad guys :D

Jophiel

06-02-2009, 07:30 AM

From the old SSI Gold Box games, Curse of the Azure Bonds was a much better game than Pool of Radiance. Partially because the plot & pacing of CAB was better and partially because they added features to CAB (such as the Fix command) which made playing it much easier.

Just Some Guy

06-02-2009, 07:52 AM

Hoopy Frood

06-02-2009, 08:30 AM

Deus Ex: Invisible War (Deux Ex 2) was a good sequel. It was also a good game of itself.

However, it greatly paled in comparison to Deus Ex, which is considered one of the best games ever made, and rightly so.

But if you ignore the fact that it was a compartively weak followup, the second game is a solid effort.

I preferred Max Payne 2 to Max Payne 1. Mainly because it didn't have the annoying "follow the red trail of blood" sequences which were very frustrating in Max Payne 1. Although, I did prefer the storyline of the first one.

(Note that I played MP1 on a PS2. The controls were horrible for anything requiring precision like the sniper rifle or the trail of blood parts. That may have soured my experience somewhat. MP2 I played via Steam on my PC and didn't have any control problems.)

And then there's Fallout, which was the spiritual successor to Wasteland. It would have been Wasteland 2 but EA wouldn't release the name to Interplay without an excessive sum of money.

Tom Scud

06-02-2009, 09:11 AM

Star Control II. StarCon I was a nice side-by-side 2 player battle game, with diverse spaceships whose powers interacted interestingly with each other, and a fun game environment (gravity whip!). Starcon II added about 10 new ships, each of them pretty fresh and interesting in their own right, without throwing off the balance of the original game.

And then Starcon II also added a completely awesome single-player campaign which is still my favorite gaming/story experience of all time.

Too bad (to steal a phrase) there wasn't a sequel.

Student Driver

06-02-2009, 09:43 AM

I found GTA: Vice City really bad, even though they did a really good job of capturing the Miami Vice ambience and setting.... but San Andreas might have been the best game ever.

Heck, GTA3 was a *massive* leap over GTA2; while the top-down GTAs were fun, going to 3D changed everything.

A few others off the top of my head:

I'm sure some folks would trumpet Super Mario 64 over Super Mario World (IMO a lesser leap from 2D to 3D than GTA2 to GTA3 above), Super Mario World over SMB 3, or SMB 3 over SMB 2, but the leap from Mario Bros. to the original Super Mario Bros. was amazing to me when I was a kid. But, overall, the series has had a pretty decent progression in sequel quality over the years. Yes, I enjoyed SMB2.

It took a while for my local arcade players to warm to Street Fighter II, since we'd all been burned by the pretty boring and (since we had the cabinet with the giant rubber buttons) nearly unplayable Street Fighter. Mortal Kombat fans of my acquaintance also thought MK2 was a really good sequel to MK.

Really Not All That Bright

06-02-2009, 09:50 AM

Heck, GTA3 was a *massive* leap over GTA2; while the top-down GTAs were fun, going to 3D changed everything.
Yeah, I deliberately left out GTA3 because it's so different from 1 & 2 that it can't rightly be called a sequel. It's as though they made the sequel to a Chaplin film next year with sound and color and CGI and so forth.

Airk

06-02-2009, 10:24 AM

Freespace 2 was a monstrous good upgrade on the original Freespace, with higher resolution graphics, more fighters, and properly deadly capital ships.

Kohan: Ahriman's Gift was a fine upgrade to Kohan: Immortal Sovereigns, though it was, really, the same game with some new stuff and tuning. The subsequent Kohan: Kings of War didn't really work as well.

I guess expansion packs don't count?

Least Original User Name Ever

06-02-2009, 10:49 AM

I'm going to give you an example from two games I didn't like. Halo 1 outside of a few points was a terrible design: bland levels that the player backtracks through repeatedly, repetitive enemies, and just a bland mush. I still don't like Halo 2 but my complaints there are just the interface; if it was on a PC it was be an okay FPS (well unless Microsoft were to completely botch the port but what are the odds of that happening?). I can't even comprehend why someone would like the original Halo; the sequel is such a much better product I can't believe it sprang from the same ground.

Multiplayer. Halo 1 wasn't on Live (Live didn't exist then), but there were system link games and you could play through your computer through Xbox Connect, but it was pretty laggy. Halo 2 was very strongly entrenched in the multiplayer aspect, but Halo 2's problems were modded maps (for the downloadable ones), some cheating, and a few glitches. Virtually all of that was fixed and virtually eliminated for Halo 3, though. The fact that Bungie released the Halo 3 Beta to get their network right before the game helped a lot, as well (look and learn, Epic games).

In the Halo community, some still wax poetic about Halo 1 because of the unbalanced pistol and Halo 2 because of the button glitches and the lenient hitboxes and battle rifle. Halo 2 might have had the best collection of multiplayer maps, but we'll see when the last three are released for Halo 3 to definitively make that statement.

DigitalC

06-02-2009, 10:49 AM

I think most gaming sequels are superior to their predecessors because of technological advances. I thought vice city was much better than san andreas though, specially the pc versions.

Least Original User Name Ever

06-02-2009, 10:56 AM

I think most gaming sequels are superior to their predecessors because of technological advances. I thought vice city was much better than san andreas though, specially the pc versions.

I think I tend to agree with you. In many cases, developers see what works and what doesn't work and try to distill what works and make it better and trim off what doesn't work. However, there are many cases where sequels get botched, and I'm sure others can point them out more readily than I can.

Sitnam

06-02-2009, 11:01 AM

Civ I was ok, Civ II was a masterpiece.

Also-
TimeSplitters 2
Twisted Metal 2
Street Fighter 2

Student Driver

06-02-2009, 11:15 AM

Yeah, I deliberately left out GTA3 because it's so different from 1 & 2 that it can't rightly be called a sequel. It's as though they made the sequel to a Chaplin film next year with sound and color and CGI and so forth.

I dunno, I thought it was a logical leap forward (though a huge leap). I was a huge fan of GTAs 1 and 2 precisely for the reasons cited so often for 3 and up as being their groundbreaking feature: the non-linear, do-anything "sandbox" gameplay.

Now, if I'd cited Wolfenstein 3D from Muse Software's Beyond Castle Wolfenstein... *that'd* be a bit of a stretch! :)

As far as sequels that don't get better with age, I know fans of Street Fighter, Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat (just to name a few) felt that those series all suffered eventually when comparing later sequels/spin-offs to earlier works-- Tomb Raider 2 was better than TR3, for example. There's also a problem with many series when original developers leave, and the company which owns the brand brings in a new developer... I seem to recall the Twisted Metal franchise suffering.

Jophiel

06-02-2009, 11:27 AM

I think I tend to agree with you. In many cases, developers see what works and what doesn't work and try to distill what works and make it better and trim off what doesn't work. However, there are many cases where sequels get botched, and I'm sure others can point them out more readily than I can.Curse of the Azure Bonds as a sequel to Pool of Radiance stood out for me partially because the next game, Secret of the Silver Blades seemed to forget any lessons they learned about pacing and plot. SSB had long sections of game filled with pointless encounters that just sapped time and your soul. There was a portion I remember where you had to travel through some ravine (down a hallway for all practical purposes) and, every three steps, there was another "random" encounter with frost giants and griffons. Three more steps, another encounter. Then you'd be getting low on spells and health so you needed to camp which led to more random encounters. None of them led anywhere, it was just a massive timesink to get to the other end of the canyon. You couldn't pay me to play through that mess again wheras I've played CAB several times including on DOS emulator.

I never played the sequel to SSB (the Menzoberrean one?) but my understanding is that that one was even worse and went straight to hell.

Hoopy Frood

06-02-2009, 11:46 AM

There's also a problem with many series when original developers leave, and the company which owns the brand brings in a new developer... I seem to recall the Twisted Metal franchise suffering.

But they brought back much of the original talent for TM: Black, which was a very well done game.

Student Driver

06-02-2009, 11:51 AM

But they brought back much of the original talent for TM: Black, which was a very well done game.

I vaguely recall that. I ended up getting burned on TM3 (as did many others!), and read bout prmises that Black was back to form, but by the time of its release, my time and money were diverted away from gaming.

Kind of a shame, I will have 7-8 years of gaming to catch up with once I'm finished with school; I imagine I'll end up not getting to spend much time with worthy games that have come out since the Dreamcast faded...

in hiding

06-02-2009, 12:51 PM

Since Star Control 2, Orion 2 and Max Payne 2 were mentioned already...

System Shock 2 is a lot smaller, but much more elegant then Shock I. One of my all time favorites. I think I know every item that is to find in this game.

Dune 2 was one of the first realtime strategy games, and set the style for a generation. It had it's flaws, but was great - though Dune 1 was a completely different game. I still remember the fear of the AI's Death Hand. :eek:

Monkey Island 2 is still the best of the trilogy. (No, I didn't like part 4 :P)

Xcom 2 - Terror from the deep has slightly better graphics than the original, but I like it a lot more - the whole setting is cooler. Xcom 3 - Apocalypse is the best one of the franchise, but I think I am the only one who thinks that. Nothing like mowing down Aliens with the Toxigun. :D

Commander Keen

06-02-2009, 02:30 PM

Diablo was probably the game I logged the most lifetime hours in, until the release of...Diablo 2.

The main Mario series improved with each game for the first 5: SMB1 < Lost Levels < SMB2 < SMB3 < Super Mario World. But Super Mario World is the pinnacle of platforming and has yet to be bested (I'm not sure it ever will, at this point).

Kobal2

06-02-2009, 03:28 PM

Master of Orion was a great, if unbalanced, 4X game. Master of Orion 2 is still regarded as the best sci-fi 4X ever made.

EDIT : in the same vein : Heroes of Might & Magic was good. HoMM 2 was great. HoMM 3 was awesomtastic. Then it finally started going downhill. Number 4 is a rotten piece of crap, 5 is... meh-ish. Good, but no Heroes 3.

Just Some Guy

06-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Just Some Guy

06-02-2009, 03:42 PM

I never played the sequel to SSB (the Menzoberrean one?) but my understanding is that that one was even worse and went straight to hell.

Pool of Darkness. It does feature Drow on the cover but Menzoberranzan was a different game.

It was about a pool... of darkness... and...

I seem to have completely repressed this one. And I still remember things about Dark Queen of Krynn and we all know what a crapper that one was.

Least Original User Name Ever

06-02-2009, 03:59 PM

On the other hand there's plenty of sequels where they fail to learn the lessons of the original in order to refine it and instead pile on bloat. "More weapons! A few more smaller levels! New concept placed in bullet points that is only used at a few carefully selected points!" The Tomb Raider series could be a study in that.

Oh, of course. You can find a worm in the apple of sequels and I don't think anyone is really saying otherwise. When done properly, and if warranted, sequels should almost certainly be better.

Also, I liked Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, but not as much as the original on the Nintendo. I lost track after that. What Pool of Radiance game is most recent?

Jragon

06-02-2009, 04:02 PM

Least Original User Name Ever

06-02-2009, 04:07 PM

I think Majora's Mask was better than (*gasp*) Ocarina of Time. Anju/Keifei sidequest notwithstanding.

Actually, probably the only bad direct sequel in the Zelda line-up is 2, and it's still a pretty damn good game since it's only bad by *Zelda* standards (with Phantom Hourglass getting an honorable mention JUST for the tower).

I didn't play Majora's Mask, but Zelda 2 was a helluva game. Unfortunately, it gets looked at like Super Mario Brothers 2, where it did something a little different, it was initially loved, then despised, then very quickly loved again after people (for lack of a better term) "got it".

Airk

06-03-2009, 08:49 AM

Since Star Control 2, Orion 2 ...

Amusing how both of those -also- serve as great examples of games that had terrible sequels. ;)

Also, I may be strange, but I didn't really feel MOO2 was a huge leap from the original. It was shinier and more customizable, but at least as unbalanced, added a ton of unpleasant (for me) micromanagement, and essentially just became Civ...In...Space -ace...ace...ace...

Made me kinda sad once the shiny wore off.

Justin_Bailey

06-03-2009, 09:02 AM

I think Majora's Mask was better than (*gasp*) Ocarina of Time. Anju/Keifei sidequest notwithstanding.

Blasphemy! While I'm not one of those people who think Ocarina of Time is the greatest game ever (it has massive pacing problems for one), there's no way Majora's Mask is the better game. It's just... not.

But a few that are better...

Contra III is light years better than Super C and better than Contra only because of technology's advance. Contra: Shattered Soldier and Contra 4 were both amazing games, but I'm not sure they're better than III.

Speaking of SNES launch games, Super Mario World is the best Mario. Anyone who says otherwise is just a liar.

Oh, I'm also one of those people who think Ninja Gaiden III is the best NES one. Go ahead and look down your noses at me. It wouldn't be the first time.

And a sequel where they blew it...

Total Carnage is a pale, pale imitation of Smash TV.

Really Not All That Bright

06-03-2009, 09:21 AM

Blasphemy! While I'm not one of those people who think Ocarina of Time is the greatest game ever (it has massive pacing problems for one), there's no way Majora's Mask is the better game. It's just... not.

But a few that are better...

Contra III is light years better than Super C and better than Contra only because of technology's advance. Contra: Shattered Soldier and Contra 4 were both amazing games, but I'm not sure they're better than III.

Speaking of SNES launch games, Super Mario World is the best Mario. Anyone who says otherwise is just a liar.

Oh, I'm also one of those people who think Ninja Gaiden III is the best NES one. Go ahead and look down your noses at me. It wouldn't be the first time.

And a sequel where they blew it...

Total Carnage is a pale, pale imitation of Smash TV.
One of the problems with living in England is that the video games I knew as a kid aren't the videogames you knew as a kid. For example, the Contra series was called Probotector in the UK, and the numbers are all different. I think Contra III was Super Probotector, but I'm not really sure.

I think Total Carnage was Super Smash TV, but I'm not sure about that either.

HPL

06-03-2009, 09:29 AM

Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones is a damn good sequel and conclusion to the Sands of Time Trilogy. It stands out even more because Prince of Persia: Warrior Within is a pretty awful sequel, so bland and generic in everything but the platforming that it doesn't really deserve to be called a Prince a Persia game.

Least Original User Name Ever

06-03-2009, 09:39 AM

Blasphemy! While I'm not one of those people who think Ocarina of Time is the greatest game ever (it has massive pacing problems for one), there's no way Majora's Mask is the better game. It's just... not.

But a few that are better...

Contra III is light years better than Super C and better than Contra only because of technology's advance. Contra: Shattered Soldier and Contra 4 were both amazing games, but I'm not sure they're better than III.

Speaking of SNES launch games, Super Mario World is the best Mario. Anyone who says otherwise is just a liar.

Oh, I'm also one of those people who think Ninja Gaiden III is the best NES one. Go ahead and look down your noses at me. It wouldn't be the first time.

And a sequel where they blew it...

Total Carnage is a pale, pale imitation of Smash TV.

I wouldn't burn you on the Ninja Gaiden one. 3 was better than 2, for it improved upon the previous. Freak (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2824083389170325707).

Jihi

06-03-2009, 04:43 PM

Street Fighter 2

This was first thing that popped into my head when I read the OP.

The original Street Fighter was damn near unplayable, and I'm not sure it would've been even if those pressure sensitive buttons hadn't always been broken.

Street Fighter 2 is a classic that revolutionized arcade fighting games in the early 90's. I know AOF and KOF/FF came out around the same time but I'm fairly sure SF2 was first.

Just Some Guy

06-03-2009, 04:56 PM

The original Street Fighter was damn near unplayable

Fighting Street. ;)

I never saw one of the machines in the arcade; I only ever played the TG-CD version...

Jihi

06-03-2009, 06:13 PM

Fighting Street. ;)

I never saw one of the machines in the arcade; I only ever played the TG-CD version...

Actually the original arcade cabinet was in fact called Street Fighter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_(video_game)). It was only the TG-CD port that was retitled "Fighting Street".

There was an old unit in an arcade near me when I was a kid circa 91 or 92. I know it was after SF2 had already been released which is why it caught my attention. It was one of the units with the analog buttons that had long since stopped working right. Interestingly it appears there was a revised cabinet issued later on with the standard six button setup that SF2 used. I never saw this version but I must, once again, register my skepticism that this would have improved the gameplay at all.

jimmycolorado

06-04-2009, 04:26 PM

While not a true "sequel" in the sense of this thread, I thought Shadow of the Colossus was a much, much better gaming experience than it's spiritual predecessor, Ico. I know some people feel the opposite, but I could never really get into Ico.

I also count myself in the number of people who preferred Vice City to San Andreas; the latter had a very strong narrative, while the former didn't, but Vice City as a "satire of the 80's" did a much better job capturing its inspiration than San Andreas did in its emulation of the early 90's.

On that point, ironically, I thought God of War was head and shoulders above God of War II, if only due to it's strong narrative alone. GoW II had many improvements over its predecessor: great looking game, top shelf musical score, huge bosses, good challenge. But they lost me with the "Temple of the Fates" and traveling through time like a bad Star Trek episode.

Spectralist

06-05-2009, 05:05 AM

Speaking of SNES launch games, Super Mario World is the best Mario. Anyone who says otherwise is just a liar.

Nonsense Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars are both better.

Justin_Bailey

06-05-2009, 06:32 AM

Nonsense Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars are both better.

Double nonsense. Super Mario RPG is just what it says on the tin, a Mario RPG game. So therefore it doesn't count.

And Yoshi's Island just sucks. There, I said it.

Really Not All That Bright

06-05-2009, 08:44 AM

Mario 64 was way better than SMW. I mean, come on... SMW was just SMB3 with prettier graphics and more levels. It wasn't like a quantum leap forward or anything.

Only Mostly Dead

06-05-2009, 09:03 AM

Diablo was probably the game I logged the most lifetime hours in, until the release of...Diablo 2.
I'm surprised only one person has said Diablo. The second game was miles beyond the first, with more level and enemy variety, more varied playable classes, more collectors goodies, and a more secure Battlenet without obscene rampant duping and townkills. And I say all that having loved the hell out of the first game.

Yumblie

06-05-2009, 12:20 PM

Super Smash Bros Melee was an amazing leap from the original SSB. It went from a quirky spin-off game to a landmark event. Brawl wasn't quite as big a step, but not for lack of trying.

Sateryn76

06-05-2009, 12:27 PM

I'm surprised only one person has said Diablo. The second game was miles beyond the first, with more level and enemy variety, more varied playable classes, more collectors goodies, and a more secure Battlenet without obscene rampant duping and townkills. And I say all that having loved the hell out of the first game.

Me too! I almost feel bad saying it, because the tech was so much more advanced, but they took dungeons and fields, with wizards and warriors, and made Diablo again, but 1 million times better in every way.

This is an easy winner for me. (At least until Starcraft 2 come out, I hope, I hope, I hope...:D)