Dumbest ideas in all of literature

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

So I was reading the latest Twilight snark thread, and was thinking about how sparkly vampires are possibly the stupidest idea ever. Sorry, make that sparkly faux-vegetarian vampires. Let us repeated that again. Sparkly. Vampires.
*Holds up a cross to ward off the stupid*

I was wondering what other dumb concepts are floating around out there. Is there anything that can top the sheer WTFness of SPARKLY VAMPIRES? I personally doubt it, but give it your best shot.

Note: I'm not asking about bad writing, or weird ideas. I am talking about mind-bogglingly dumb ones. Also, please rate your nominations with the Smacky Guy Scale, with :smack: being "mildly dumb" and :smack::smack::smack: being "nearly as bad as the Sparklepires".

[Mahaloth]

Midichlorians?

[Krokodil]

Sailing a wooden ship to the North Pole 1n the 1790s? (Frankenstein)
Flying to Mars on a magic carpet? (Lt. Gullivar Jones)
Flying to Mars with even less? (A Princess of Mars)

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Midichlorians?Oh, see? You pick the one that blows the entire smackie scale into the next solar system.

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

I haven't actually read this but The Internet's all abuzz about the way the Hood beat up Tigra in the Avengers from a year or so ago.

You can read this to see one comic reader's view on it and the treatment of women in Marvel in general. I wanted to find a scan of the beatdown. (http://alankistler.squarespace.com/journal/2008/4/5/kistlers-thoughts-on-women-in-marvel.html)

[Chronos]

Flying to Mars with even less? (A Princess of Mars) See, I have my own hypothesis on that. I think that John Carter wasn't just of Mars, but was literally Mars, as in the Greco-Roman god. Think about it: He's apparently immortal, he's immune to and adept in telepathy beyond the abilities of Earthlings or Barsoomians, he's the Solar System's absolute top master of every form of combat known, he can travel through space through nothing more than his own willpower... Clearly, the dude isn't human.

[Der Trihs]

While I've never read the books myself ( they didn't sound appealing ), there's the Libertarian near utopia in by Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold books ( which realistically would disintegrate into a Social Darwinian hellhole almost immediately ), and his outright silly Earth government. The tyrannical Earth government is a logically inconsistent mishmash of everything the author dislikes; a society that tracks everyone via implants yet can't track down criminals; a society that ruthlessly mass murders people, but that issues nonlethal ammo to it's troops as a default because they are soft compared to the he-man Freeholders. An impoverished society where everyone is fat. A society with massive taxation that appears to do little with that money, including train and equip it's military. A society that can repair such things as spine damage and missing limbs, but is hampered by sending disabled people into combat out of political correctness.

As far as sparkly vampires go, I wouldn't call that "stupid" at all. Stylistically appropriate for vampires, but not stupid.

[Lemur866]

Flying to Mars with even less? (A Princess of Mars)
See, at least this makes a sort of sense. John Carter looks at Mars and wishes to go to Mars, and somehow he is transported to Mars. No pseudoscience, no experimental science-y mishaps, no rattletrap spaceships. Just pure wish-fulfillment. Don't bother explaining it, the author merely waves his hand and John Carter arrives on Mars.

[TBG]

Immortals are from another planet. Or the end of time. Either way, it's pretty dumb.

(And yes, the movie actually exists. Pretending movies don't exist when they do, that's pretty dumb in itself.)

[Skald the Rhymer]

Immortals are from another planet. Or the end of time. Either way, it's pretty dumb.

(And yes, the movie actually exists. Pretending movies don't exist when they do, that's pretty dumb in itself.)


When we do such things, it is to state that the movie is so incredibly bad that no amount of mockery can overstate its badness.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

I think MST3K would disagree with you on that, Skald. Overwhelming badness attracts mockery like flies.
I think maybe what you're trying to say is that overwhelmingly bad movies that you expected to be good are too heart-breaking to mock.

[billfish678]

While I've never read the books myself ( they didn't sound appealing ), there's the Libertarian near utopia in by Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold books ( which realistically would disintegrate into a Social Darwinian hellhole almost immediately ), and his outright silly Earth government. The tyrannical Earth government is a logically inconsistent mishmash of everything the author dislikes; a society that tracks everyone via implants yet can't track down criminals; a society that ruthlessly mass murders people, but that issues nonlethal ammo to it's troops as a default because they are soft compared to the he-man Freeholders. An impoverished society where everyone is fat. A society with massive taxation that appears to do little with that money, including train and equip it's military. A society that can repair such things as spine damage and missing limbs, but is hampered by sending disabled people into combat out of political correctness.



That sounds vaguely familiar :)

[Krokodil]

I haven't actually read this but The Internet's all abuzz about the way the Hood beat up Tigra in the Avengers from a year or so ago.

You can read this to see one comic reader's view on it and the treatment of women in Marvel in general. I wanted to find a scan of the beatdown. (http://alankistler.squarespace.com/journal/2008/4/5/kistlers-thoughts-on-women-in-marvel.html)

It's a thought-provoking piece, but some of his examples were poorly chosen. He read a story where Tigra was humiliated by a C-list villain, the Hood; I read a longer storyline where a C-list villain shot up the super-villain ladder by beating Tigra, Wolverine and Dr. Strange, and became an A-list villain in the process. He says the Tigra story looked like a rape scene in some respects; did he even notice that Wolverine, king badass of the Marvel superheroes, was literally (though temporarily) emasculated by his fight with Hood? Say what you will about Parker Robbins, he doesn't pick harmless targets.

As for the statue of Mary Jane: She's provocatively posed, and she's doing Spider-Man's laundry. To the first: So what? She's a professional lingerie model. Provocative poses are her bread and butter. As for the second, no, she's not doing her husband's laundry in this scene (although I can't imagine why that would be a problem). This is re-creating a scene much earlier in their relationship where she finds his costume and discovers once and for all that he is Spider-Man. It depicts arguably the third most famous drawing of the character (after her introduction and the cover of the wedding issue).

Power Girl good, Ms. Marvel bad? They're the same character. Both were created in 1976 by Gerry Conway as shirttail female versions of a more famous male character. Both had troubled initial tenures on the big team, ending with a mysterious accelerated pregnancy. Both have acceleratedly fetishistic costumes. I'm at a loss to think of one substantial difference between the two.

[dropzone]

Watched "Red Dawn" the other night. Ripping yarn, interesting premise, EXCEPT. A daughter asked, "The kids in the school were not in Duck'n'Cover mode, though the East and West coasts have been nuked and the Soviets and Cubans are parachuting troops into BFE, Colorado? A town with no strategic potential? Why did they do that? How did their transports not get blown out of the sky by militiamen with Stingers who've been praying for this day all their lives?"

OK, she didn't express her strategic and tactical misgivings quite like that. What she did say was, "Are they crazy? Everybody out there has guns and wants to kill Commies." And yet, they are making a sequel.

[RealityChuck]

Sailing a wooden ship to the North Pole 1n the 1790s? (Frankenstein)What sort of ship should they have used?

Actually, the ship wasn't going to the North Pole -- it was exploring the Arctic, and going as far north as it could. The trip was in the summer, so it is a very good representation of how Arctic explorers would go about it (considering the fact it was written in 1818, it clearly was written based upon actual polar expeditions of the time).

The dumbest I can think of is in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Not only does it strain disbelief that a solar eclipse occurs at precisely the right time to save Hank Morgan from being burned at the stake, but he somehow remembers the date of the eclipse, evidently memorizing it just in case something like this happened.

[CalMeacham]

The dumbest I can think of is in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Not only does it strain disbelief that a solar eclipse occurs at precisely the right time to save Hank Morgan from being burned at the stake, but he somehow remembers the date of the eclipse, evidently memorizing it just in case something like this happened.


Well, to be fair, they used it in King Solomon's Mines, too, which was written at about the same time. And fifty years later in TinTin.


It would all be totally absurd, except for the fact that Columbus actually did use this ploy to save his life, convincing the local Caribbean natives that he had godlike power, and could summon the eclipse. That's not historical myth -- it really did happen. He was in the right place at the right time to capitalize on his knowledge of the eclipse.


So the only part of the thing in Connecticut Yankee was that Hank Morgan happened to know exactly when a sixth century eclipse would take place (the guys in King Solomon's Mines had an almanac, as did Columbus). But I can accept that if Morgan's the kind who dockets odd facts, which he seems to have been.



I wrote an article on this for Teemings, which I'd have linked to, except that it's no longer on-line.

[Notassmartasithought]

"Magic Realism." May not be the worst, but when you hear how wonderful Gabriel Garcia Marquez is, and on the third or forth page you have blood running uphill I lose interest.

But I'm disqualified because I'm a baseball fan and about the same time I put down "Field of Dreams" when I first read "build it and they will come." Never finished it.

But I still wouldn't, I think. JR Rowling's works obviously allow me to suspend the laws of the natural world. But I'm not prepared to if I'm not warned first.

[Umbriel2]

Watched "Red Dawn" the other night. Ripping yarn, interesting premise, EXCEPT. A daughter asked, "The kids in the school were not in Duck'n'Cover mode, though the East and West coasts have been nuked and the Soviets and Cubans are parachuting troops into BFE, Colorado? A town with no strategic potential? Why did they do that? How did their transports not get blown out of the sky by militiamen with Stingers who've been praying for this day all their lives?"

OK, she didn't express her strategic and tactical misgivings quite like that. What she did say was, "Are they crazy? Everybody out there has guns and wants to kill Commies." And yet, they are making a sequel.

I think it's mentioned somewhere in the movie that the objective of invading rural Colorado was to secure passes across the Rockies. Which makes sense if you can swallow the idea of an all-out invasion of the continental US in the first place.

I'm not sure that they referenced any widespread nuking of the coasts, though. I recall some reference to someplace like St. Louis being nuked in some sort of show of force, but otherwise the premise was that the invaders didn't especially want to nuke what they were trying to conquer, and the US was hesitant to use such weapons on its own soil (some sort of Soviet "Star Wars" defense making strategic retaliation unfeasible).

[Krokodil]

What sort of ship should they have used?

Actually, the ship wasn't going to the North Pole -- it was exploring the Arctic, and going as far north as it could. The trip was in the summer, so it is a very good representation of how Arctic explorers would go about it (considering the fact it was written in 1818, it clearly was written based upon actual polar expeditions of the time).


I was looking desperately through Capt. Walton's journal for something that would imply that he was looking for a northwest passage or a northernmost journey or anything at all along those lines, but it explicitly stated that his goal was to sail to the North Pole. This is from the first edition, not the more popular third edition, if that makes a difference.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

I suppose I should have made my OP clearer- I'm looking for dumb concepts, not dumb plotlines.

*Gives self a :smack:*

[Push You Down]

I think it's mentioned somewhere in the movie that the objective of invading rural Colorado was to secure passes across the Rockies. Which makes sense if you can swallow the idea of an all-out invasion of the continental US in the first place.

I'm not sure that they referenced any widespread nuking of the coasts, though. I recall some reference to someplace like St. Louis being nuked in some sort of show of force, but otherwise the premise was that the invaders didn't especially want to nuke what they were trying to conquer, and the US was hesitant to use such weapons on its own soil (some sort of Soviet "Star Wars" defense making strategic retaliation unfeasible).

I believe nukes are only referenced obliquely once. When Powers Boothe explains the recent drop in the chinese population.

[Push You Down]

Oh, to actually contribute to the thread...the Tom Bombadil excusion in Fellowship.

I know books and essays galore have been written about how important this part is to the book.

Meh. It's presented in a really irritating and boring way.

[astorian]

How about the Sherlock Holmes mystery, "The Adventure of the Speckled Band"?

We're supposed to believe tha tthe killer TRAINED a poisonous adder (despite snakes being notoriously dumb, and practically incapable of learning ANYTHING) to slither down a rope, bite the intended victim, and then climb back up when the killer whistled (even though snakes are DEAF)... all for the reward of a saucer of milk (which wouldn't reall interest snakes in the least).

[ianzin]

Dr No: trying to kill Bond by putting a tarantula in his room or in his bed.

1. If you can get into Bond's room to put a spider there, why not just wait until he comes back and shoot or stab him, or use any of the many other ways of hurting people that have been tried and tested for centuries?

2. The only thing a spider will do in such circumstances is try to find somewhere dark and undisturbed, where it can stay perfectly still and safe for its own protection for as long as possible. The idea that it would try to 'attack' Bond or bite him is utterly absurd. Bond isn't prey. Bond isn't even close to being prey. The spider knows this.

3. Tarantula bites are rarely if ever even a serious problem for healthy adults, let alone fatal. Uncomfortable and unwelcome, yes, but not a serious problem. 'Dr No' would know this.

4. Even if this creature were dangerous (which it isn't), and even if it were crawling towards or even over Bond in a dangerous way (which it would never do), it would be child's play to deal with. One simple flick with the back of the hand would send it flying. Tarantulas, like all spiders, are very light and fragile. When you handle a tarantula, the hardest thing is not hurting it.

Yeah, I know it the movie it meant they could have their 'oooh, scary spider' scene. But this thread is about dumb ideas, and this 'plan' is exceedingly dumb.

[Telperion]

I was looking desperately through Capt. Walton's journal for something that would imply that he was looking for a northwest passage or a northernmost journey or anything at all along those lines, but it explicitly stated that his goal was to sail to the North Pole. This is from the first edition, not the more popular third edition, if that makes a difference.

I don't see what's so wrong with that. It was known quite early that the polar ice was drifting, and Fridtjof Nansen attempted to reach the North Pole with a wooden ship called Fram as late as the 1890's and while doing so came closer to the geographic Pole than anyone had ever done before.

[Steve MB]

An impoverished society where everyone is fat.

Huh? That makes perfect sense -- lousy fattening foods tend to be cheaper than a proper balanced diet.

[Sailboat]

Watched "Red Dawn" the other night. Ripping yarn, interesting premise, EXCEPT. A daughter asked, "The kids in the school were not in Duck'n'Cover mode, though the East and West coasts have been nuked and the Soviets and Cubans are parachuting troops into BFE, Colorado? A town with no strategic potential? Why did they do that? How did their transports not get blown out of the sky by militiamen with Stingers who've been praying for this day all their lives?"

OK, she didn't express her strategic and tactical misgivings quite like that. What she did say was, "Are they crazy? Everybody out there has guns and wants to kill Commies." And yet, they are making a sequel.

Hijack, since it's not so much a dumb premise as a stupid depiction, but ther part where the kids gradually notice a noise behind them and turn around to find that a Soviet Armored Division has snuck up behind them with diesel tanks, to within 20 feet or so, was the worst moment for me. The tank engines thunder and rumble quite threateningly as soon as the kids are staring at them in dismay. Apparently they didn't during the "sneaking up" part.

[CalMeacham]

Dr No: trying to kill Bond by putting a tarantula in his room or in his bed.

1. If you can get into Bond's room to put a spider there, why not just wait until he comes back and shoot or stab him, or use any of the many other ways of hurting people that have been tried and tested for centuries?

2. The only thing a spider will do in such circumstances is try to find somewhere dark and undisturbed, where it can stay perfectly still and safe for its own protection for as long as possible. The idea that it would try to 'attack' Bond or bite him is utterly absurd. Bond isn't prey. Bond isn't even close to being prey. The spider knows this.

3. Tarantula bites are rarely if ever even a serious problem for healthy adults, let alone fatal. Uncomfortable and unwelcome, yes, but not a serious problem. 'Dr No' would know this.

4. Even if this creature were dangerous (which it isn't), and even if it were crawling towards or even over Bond in a dangerous way (which it would never do), it would be child's play to deal with. One simple flick with the back of the hand would send it flying. Tarantulas, like all spiders, are very light and fragile. When you handle a tarantula, the hardest thing is not hurting it.



Actually, in the book it's a centipede, which makes more sense.


To my mind the dumbest thing in the movie waas far dumber than that -- it was Dr. No putting Bond in a cell with a ventilator shaft more than big enough for him to crawl through -- even if he did electrify it. Then the duct gets really hot, then Bond gets sea water flooding him. Who the hell heats up a ventilator duct and flushes it with sea water? It makes no sense at all. It wasn't until I read the book, where Bond's crawl through the duct is actually a deliberately-made obdstacle course for him. Of course, it doesn't make any sense in the movie as an obstacle course, either -- bond is able to crawl through and then take a guard by surprise, which he shouldn't have been able to do if there was either a sadistic obstacle course or a well-made prison.

[foolsguinea]

Immortals are from another planet. Or the end of time. Either way, it's pretty dumb.

(And yes, the movie actually exists. Pretending movies don't exist when they do, that's pretty dumb in itself.)I appear to be the only person who thinks Zeist was an appropriate idea betrayed by a horribly executed movie.

[Isamu]

I might get flamed but I thought the premise of pre-cogs in Minority Report was stupid. (I haven't read the book, which maybe explains it better than the film did).

So these people can see the future, but only as it relates to violent crimes, not other stuff like, say, that one of them was going to get kidnapped? (dumb!) How did they get their abilities? - mutation (dumb!) What's their precog range? - the whole world, or just the local city? (dumb!) They often only see the future crime in just enough time for the police to race there and prevent it. (dumb!) What is everyone going to do when these pre-cogs die of old age? (dumb!). Special effects were cool though.

[Schuyler]

Huh? That makes perfect sense -- lousy fattening foods tend to be cheaper than a proper balanced diet.

Actually, rather than poor but fat people in an affluent society (for example the U.S.), it's probably more instructive to think of the North Koreans (living in an impoverished society) who as a people are stunted in relation to the relatively well-nourished South Koreans.

[Grumman]

So these people can see the future, but only as it relates to violent crimes, not other stuff like, say, that one of them was going to get kidnapped? (dumb!)
Maybe they could see it, but their discovery didn't trigger the same sort of reaction as seeing a murder, so their minders didn't notice.

What's their precog range? - the whole world, or just the local city? (dumb!) They often only see the future crime in just enough time for the police to race there and prevent it. (dumb!)
They're using a second-hand detection system - it's hardly surprising that either stage is going to have limitations. You're attacking the entire premise of a sci-fi movie, on the basis of it being sci-fi.

What is everyone going to do when these pre-cogs die of old age? (dumb!).
No, not dumb, realistic. People discovered something useful and started taking advantage of it. Delaying their use of pre-cogs until they can reproduce the phenomenon doesn't make them any better off, and in the meantime people are dying.

[Gcat]

I was wondering what other dumb concepts are floating around out there. Is there anything that can top the sheer WTFness of SPARKLY VAMPIRES? I personally doubt it, but give it your best shot.
Sunlight kills vampires. :D

[elfkin477]

A pair of magical size adjusting pants that brings four friends together.

[cmkeller]

ianzin:

Dr No: trying to kill Bond by putting a tarantula in his room or in his bed.

Of all of Bond-dom, this isn't even in the top 5 of dumbest ways the villains try to kill Bond, while squandering better ones.

At the top of that list, IMHO, is the scene in Live and Let Die in which Mr. Big forces Bond at gunpoint to an island in the middle of his crocodile swamp, and then attracts the crocs with fresh meat. YOU HAVE A GUN ON HIM, YOU IDIOTS! KILL HIM WITH THE GUN!

[Little Nemo]

While I've never read the books myself ( they didn't sound appealing ), there's the Libertarian near utopia in by Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold books ( which realistically would disintegrate into a Social Darwinian hellhole almost immediately ), and his outright silly Earth government. The tyrannical Earth government is a logically inconsistent mishmash of everything the author dislikes; a society that tracks everyone via implants yet can't track down criminals; a society that ruthlessly mass murders people, but that issues nonlethal ammo to it's troops as a default because they are soft compared to the he-man Freeholders. An impoverished society where everyone is fat. A society with massive taxation that appears to do little with that money, including train and equip it's military. A society that can repair such things as spine damage and missing limbs, but is hampered by sending disabled people into combat out of political correctness.That's nothing compared to The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. In this "alternate history" there are two significant differences between the world in the book and reality. The United States is a typical libertopia where everything is perfect due to libertariansim. And gorillas talk.

No detailed explanation was given. Apparently the reader is supposed to accept that primates revealing they are sentient would be an obvious result of libertarianism.

[jayjay]

No detailed explanation was given. Apparently the reader is supposed to accept that primates revealing they are sentient would be an obvious result of libertarianism.

It's a refreshing change from intelligent giant cephalopods. Did the gorillas have the deed to Manhattan, too?

[Grumman]

That's nothing compared to The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. In this "alternate history" there are two significant differences between the world in the book and reality. The United States is a typical libertopia where everything is perfect due to libertariansim. And gorillas talk.

No detailed explanation was given. Apparently the reader is supposed to accept that primates revealing they are sentient would be an obvious result of libertarianism.
Maybe you have it backwards, and the sentient gorillas are the reason that the libertopia came into existence?

[Little Nemo]

Maybe you have it backwards, and the sentient gorillas are the reason that the libertopia came into existence?No, it happened after the libertopia was formed. It's been a long time since I read the book but as I recall the "explanation" was that primates supposedly always had the ability to talk but just never used it. Until one day they just decided they should. I don't remember why America had a noticeable population of primates in the first place.

My speculation is that Smith just thought the whole Planet of the Apes idea which was popular at the time was cool.

[Der Trihs]

That's nothing compared to The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. In this "alternate history" there are two significant differences between the world in the book and reality. The United States is a typical libertopia where everything is perfect due to libertariansim. And gorillas talk.

No detailed explanation was given. Apparently the reader is supposed to accept that primates revealing they are sentient would be an obvious result of libertarianism.Somehow I forgot that one, despite still having the book somewhere I think. Probably because L. Neil Smith lacks the nastiness of Michael Z. Williamson. Talking apes and electrically heated roads, due to the wonders of Libertarianism.

[Lemur866]

The intelligent primates and cetaceans in the Probability Broach books have cybernetically enhanced brains. If I recall correctly, pure AI was impossible, but you could enhance animal brains to human level intelligence. One of the characters I remember was an enhanced dog who was the adopted parent of a human child.

And if I recall correctly again, the source of the divergence was the insertion of one extra word into the Declaration of Independence, which changed "the consent of the governed" to "the unanimous consent of the governed". And therefore the Constitutional Convention that replaced the Articles of Confederation never happened, and so without the tyrannical Federal Government we have an American Libertopia, which inspires the rest of the world, until we have starships and trans-universe travel and cybernetically enhanced gorillas in the 1990s.

[BrainGlutton]

While I've never read the books myself ( they didn't sound appealing ), there's the Libertarian near utopia in by Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold books ( which realistically would disintegrate into a Social Darwinian hellhole almost immediately ), and his outright silly Earth government. The tyrannical Earth government is a logically inconsistent mishmash of everything the author dislikes; a society that tracks everyone via implants yet can't track down criminals; a society that ruthlessly mass murders people, but that issues nonlethal ammo to it's troops as a default because they are soft compared to the he-man Freeholders. An impoverished society where everyone is fat. A society with massive taxation that appears to do little with that money, including train and equip it's military. A society that can repair such things as spine damage and missing limbs, but is hampered by sending disabled people into combat out of political correctness.

See Author Tract (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorTract) and Mary Suetopia. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySuetopia)

[BrainGlutton]

And if I recall correctly again, the source of the divergence was the insertion of one extra word into the Declaration of Independence, which changed "the consent of the governed" to "the unanimous consent of the governed".

And it's really impossible to envision the Continental Congress -- or even Jefferson himself -- approving that language.

[BrainGlutton]

ianzin:



Of all of Bond-dom, this isn't even in the top 5 of dumbest ways the villains try to kill Bond, while squandering better ones.

At the top of that list, IMHO, is the scene in Live and Let Die in which Mr. Big forces Bond at gunpoint to an island in the middle of his crocodile swamp, and then attracts the crocs with fresh meat. YOU HAVE A GUN ON HIM, YOU IDIOTS! KILL HIM WITH THE GUN!

See Bond Villain Stupidity. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BondVillainStupidity) Also Why Don't Ya Just Shoot Him? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle8gti69rvj2oq?from=Main.WhyDontYaJustShootHim) And, of course, the Evil Overlord Rules. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList)

[BrainGlutton]

I appear to be the only person who thinks Zeist was an appropriate idea betrayed by a horribly executed movie.

Probably. (http://galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=109)

[BrainGlutton]

"Stupid is as stupid does." Just so, Mr. Groom.

[ralph124c]

How about Robert Heinlein's "Starshp Troopers"? Fighting the bugs with infantry? Didn't make sense to me..why not go after them with more WWII technology (like tanks)?

[Der Trihs]

How about Robert Heinlein's "Starshp Troopers"? Fighting the bugs with infantry? Didn't make sense to me..why not go after them with more WWII technology (like tanks)?
Nuclear armed infantry in powered armor. And tanks are probably not the best weapon to use against tunnel dwellers.

[MacTech]

The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal....

A creature so stupid that it thinks if you can't see it, it can't see you, most effective defense against a RBBOT is to put a towel over your head (once again proving the towel the most useful thing in the universe), once you do this, the RBBOT will cease looking for you

Daft as a brush, but very, very ravenous...

....at least it doesn't sparkle though

[Isamu]

Maybe they could see it, but their discovery didn't trigger the same sort of reaction as seeing a murder, so their minders didn't notice.


They're using a second-hand detection system - it's hardly surprising that either stage is going to have limitations. You're attacking the entire premise of a sci-fi movie, on the basis of it being sci-fi.

No, I like sci-fi. When it's internally consistent and works.

Not being snarky, but can you answer how do the pre-cogs (or their handlers) tell the difference between murder and self-defence homicide just by watching edited video images? How do they tell the difference between illegal (but publicly sanctioned) killing in war and legal killing in war. In fact, what happens in wartime or natural disasters - they must have to shut the whole system down while it goes into overload. What about illegal euthenasia - do they go after those people? Is their vision limited to the city limits? If so, how is that possible? If not, why don't the murderers move out to the suburbs so they are out of range?

Why do the police spend so much money on manpower and equipment to prevent simple murders - many people in society today think that the cheating spouse in the movie actually deserved a pair of scissors in her back. Instead they send a rapid deployment taskforce out there to rescue her, and put the guy who hadn't done anything under arrest (yes- I realise that that is the whole point of the movie, but do you realise how much of basic society would have to be changed to accomodate that new rule - trust the word of three semi-autistic visionaries that you were definately going to kill her - hmm).

Nothing in the movie about the pre-cog conceit made any sense to me. Maybe it was just me though.

[Der Trihs]

If not, why don't the murderers move out to the suburbs so they are out of range? How do you know they don't ? Assuming it occurs to them, and assuming they can convince their victim to move with them; it's a bit difficult to murder someone miles away.

Why do the police spend so much money on manpower and equipment to prevent simple murders - many people in society today think that the cheating spouse in the movie actually deserved a pair of scissors in her back. The law disagrees with those barbarians fortunately. Do you really need an explanation as to why the cops care about murder ?

[Loopus]

So the only part of the thing in Connecticut Yankee was that Hank Morgan happened to know exactly when a sixth century eclipse would take place (the guys in King Solomon's Mines had an almanac, as did Columbus). But I can accept that if Morgan's the kind who dockets odd facts, which he seems to have been.

It's also impressive that he was sure that the total eclipse would be visible in Camelot (a place that, as Morgan himself mentioned, never existed). As I recall, there is a very small space on the Earth from which solar eclipses appear total.

Further straining the reader's credulity about Morgan's luck, he made his threat for the wrong day because he was told the incorrect date, then had his execution moved forward to the correct date of the eclipse in an attempt by Arthur to avoid the disaster.

But I was willing to suspend my disbelief. It was mostly a MacGuffin to get Morgan into a position of political power.

[Grumman]

Not being snarky, but can you answer how do the pre-cogs (or their handlers) tell the difference between murder and self-defence homicide just by watching edited video images?
They aren't just watching edited video images - you're talking about a system where multiple police are going to be eye-witnesses. If someone tries to kill someone in self-defence, having a squad of cops on the scene, perfectly capable of seeing what the person they are defending themselves from is doing, is going to make it easy to determine if the homicide was in self-defence or not.

How do they tell the difference between illegal (but publicly sanctioned) killing in war and legal killing in war.
If the precogs pick it up, they have video evidence of whether it's legal or not.

In fact, what happens in wartime or natural disasters - they must have to shut the whole system down while it goes into overload.
Even assuming that accidental deaths trigger the precogs' abilities, what's your point? Because it might not function 100% of the time, it's better to go without?

What about illegal euthenasia - do they go after those people?
Why are you asking me? Either they pick it up and they do or they don't pick it up and they don't. It's not a plothole, it's simply something that has nothing to do with the plot of the movie.

Is their vision limited to the city limits? If so, how is that possible? If not, why don't the murderers move out to the suburbs so they are out of range?
If murderers are forced to move out of range, while everyone else is free to shelter within range in perfect safety, that means the pre-crime division is working! What are they going to do out there, murder rabbits?

[yendis]

The idea behind Minority Report works better in the short story. There all crime is predicted by the precogs. And the precogs are not unique merely rare.

The story also follows Dick's typical pattern for his short stories:
1. wierd sci-fi idea or conceit
2. implications of that idea
3. horrible depressing twist
4. realisation that life sucks and there is nothing we can do about it.

[Anaamika]

No, I'm pretty much on board with Isamu with the precogs. It might have been a neat concept but it was stupidly portrayed in the movie. The short story is much better.

[Chronos]

How about Robert Heinlein's "Starshp Troopers"? Fighting the bugs with infantry? Didn't make sense to me..why not go after them with more WWII technology (like tanks)?The only differences between an MI powered armor suit and a tank are that the MI suit has a heck of a lot more firepower, and a tank can't dance a jig.

[E-Sabbath]

MI has a small crapload more mobility, and is considerably smaller, too.

[CalMeacham]

It's also impressive that he was sure that the total eclipse would be visible in Camelot (a place that, as Morgan himself mentioned, never existed). As I recall, there is a very small space on the Earth from which solar eclipses appear total.


I'm assuming he knew it was visible in England, not merely that it happened on that day -- almanacs, as in Columbus' case and in King Solomon's Mines, give this information.

[BrainGlutton]

From Dusk Till Dawn:

1) Starts out as a typical and somewhat promising Tarantino noir about two badass psycho criminals on the run with ordinary-folks hostages, which, midway through, for no particular reason, turns into a vampire-action movie.

2) The vampire-action half is based on the premise that there's this roadhouse in Mexico where the staff are actually vampires and feed on their customers and, apparently, somehow word of this never gets outs and customers keep coming. :rolleyes:

[Miller]

From Dusk Till Dawn:

1) Starts out as a typical and somewhat promising Tarantino noir about two badass psycho criminals on the run with ordinary-folks hostages, which, midway through, for no particular reason, turns into a vampire-action movie.

I think you're in the wrong thread. This, clearly, belongs in the "Most awesome ideas in all of literature" thread.

2) The vampire-action half is based on the premise that there's this roadhouse in Mexico where the staff are actually vampires and feed on their customers and, apparently, somehow word of this never gets outs and customers keep coming. :rolleyes:

And that's despite the fact that, as the end-of-the-film camera pull out shows, the road house is built on a literal mountain of human skeletons.

Which is why From Dusk 'til Dawn is the pinnacle of the cinematic artform.

Well, that, and the guy with the crotch revolver.

[TBG]

When we do such things, it is to state that the movie is so incredibly bad that no amount of mockery can overstate its badness.

It's still annoying and comes off as childish, fingers in the ear, "Icanthearyou" type nonsense.

I appear to be the only person who thinks Zeist was an appropriate idea betrayed by a horribly executed movie.

Well, it being dumb goes beyond just them being aliens, which in and of itself could've worked had they just left it at something simple like "hey some aliens dump kids off at Earth periodically for unknown reasons". It would've been dumb as a followup to the first movie, but hardly a candidate for this thread.

But no, instead they were adult aliens, who all knew each other, then they come to Earth and are turned into infants for some reason, are found and raised by humans, and think they are humans, and age like humans, until such time as they are killed and become immortals, which for some reason for each and every one of them happens to be at the exact same age they were back when they left the home planet, even though each of them got dumped on Earth at completely different points in time for some reason. Horrible execution or horrible idea, it still makes sparkly vampires look almost genius in comparison. Hell, even Scientology makes more sense than this idea did.

[Lamia]

It's funny how many of these examples come from popular movies.

[Sparrow]

Dr No: trying to kill Bond by putting a tarantula in his room or in his bed.

1. If you can get into Bond's room to put a spider there, why not just wait until he comes back and shoot or stab him, or use any of the many other ways of hurting people that have been tried and tested for centuries?

2. The only thing a spider will do in such circumstances is try to find somewhere dark and undisturbed, where it can stay perfectly still and safe for its own protection for as long as possible. The idea that it would try to 'attack' Bond or bite him is utterly absurd. Bond isn't prey. Bond isn't even close to being prey. The spider knows this.

3. Tarantula bites are rarely if ever even a serious problem for healthy adults, let alone fatal. Uncomfortable and unwelcome, yes, but not a serious problem. 'Dr No' would know this.

4. Even if this creature were dangerous (which it isn't), and even if it were crawling towards or even over Bond in a dangerous way (which it would never do), it would be child's play to deal with. One simple flick with the back of the hand would send it flying. Tarantulas, like all spiders, are very light and fragile. When you handle a tarantula, the hardest thing is not hurting it.

Yeah, I know it the movie it meant they could have their 'oooh, scary spider' scene. But this thread is about dumb ideas, and this 'plan' is exceedingly dumb.

Wasn't it a scorpion in the book? Which really might sting a person if it got into their bed, and could kill them. I guess they had to make it a tarantula for the movie because a scorpion might really sting their star?

:eek:

[DiggitCamara]

Dr No: trying to kill Bond by putting a tarantula in his room or in his bed.

1. If you can get into Bond's room to put a spider there, why not just wait until he comes back and shoot or stab him, or use any of the many other ways of hurting people that have been tried and tested for centuries?

2. The only thing a spider will do in such circumstances is try to find somewhere dark and undisturbed, where it can stay perfectly still and safe for its own protection for as long as possible. The idea that it would try to 'attack' Bond or bite him is utterly absurd. Bond isn't prey. Bond isn't even close to being prey. The spider knows this.

3. Tarantula bites are rarely if ever even a serious problem for healthy adults, let alone fatal. Uncomfortable and unwelcome, yes, but not a serious problem. 'Dr No' would know this.

4. Even if this creature were dangerous (which it isn't), and even if it were crawling towards or even over Bond in a dangerous way (which it would never do), it would be child's play to deal with. One simple flick with the back of the hand would send it flying. Tarantulas, like all spiders, are very light and fragile. When you handle a tarantula, the hardest thing is not hurting it.

Yeah, I know it the movie it meant they could have their 'oooh, scary spider' scene. But this thread is about dumb ideas, and this 'plan' is exceedingly dumb.

Worst of all: this idea has even ben recycled, time and time again!

One of the relatively recent recyclings manages to be even dumber (Star Wars, Episode II).

1. For some reason the senator Amidala has had one (or several) attempts on her life
2. The bounty hunter assigned to kill her decides to kill her using... some kind of centipedes(?)
3. The robotic drone used to send those animals returns to her

The question is... why, in God's name does she choose to kill her victim in this awkward fashion? Couldn't she have used the drone itself to flood the room with poisonous, inodorous gas? Or for that matter, have it enter the room and explode? Or something?

And even if for some reason she couldn't use any of these killing methods... why on earth does she recall the stupid drone, thus providing a way to trace her? And when she spots someone in hot pursuit of said drone, why doesn't she simply leave? Why draw attention to herself?

It doesn't even further the story's progress, because she in turn is killed after a "thrilling" (read: stupid) chase without releasing any information about the plot against Amidala.

[silenus]

No, it happened after the libertopia was formed. It's been a long time since I read the book but as I recall the "explanation" was that primates supposedly always had the ability to talk but just never used it. Until one day they just decided they should. I don't remember why America had a noticeable population of primates in the first place.

My speculation is that Smith just thought the whole Planet of the Apes idea which was popular at the time was cool.

Nope. The apes "speak" by using vocoders on their wrists that respond to cues from the muscles and tendons. The only "enhanced" being in the books is the coyote.

On another note, RAH specifically states in Starship Troopers that a tank division wouldn't last a minute against a single MI in armor.

[CalMeacham]

Wasn't it a scorpion in the book? Which really might sting a person if it got into their bed, and could kill them. I guess they had to make it a tarantula for the movie because a scorpion might really sting their star?


Yup -- see my post #28.


By the way -- it's pretty clear that they didn't really have the tarantula on Connery'd body. He looks too damned flat -- I think maybe they rear-projected him.

[WotNot]

Yup -- see my post #28.


By the way -- it's pretty clear that they didn't really have the tarantula on Connery'd body. He looks too damned flat -- I think maybe they rear-projected him.

I was just reading that they apparently had the spider crawling on a sheet of glass between Connery and the camera for that shot – in other shots, they used a body double.

To be fair to Fleming, he's just using a standard trope of the genre. It is at least slightly less dumb than the previously mentioned “Speckled Band” – and I don't suppose it was a new idea then, either.