What are some things about your own culture you understand "foreigners" would find weird?

[Mahaloth]

What about your country or culture do you "get" is "weird"?

I'll go first. I'm an American from Michigan, though I have lived overseas.

1. Ice cold beer. No, our beer is not so bad that is has to be ice cold, but I do get that it seems that way to others. Hey, we like it cold.

2. Baseball - Now, see, this I have no explanation for. Why, yes, it is boring 99% of the time and extremely slow paced, but it is big here. I have explanation for this. Fun to play, though. Watching it is horrid.

3. Electoral College - I mean, I get it and I actually rather support it, but I do get that it must seem weird for a democracy to have something like it.

I'll add more as I think of them. Please share what culture you are talking about when you introduce yourself.

By the way, this isn't supposed to be controversial. It's not a Pit thread or anything. Just be civl, folks. :)

[chacoguy]

At the risk of sending this to over 1000 posts- um, guns?

[Mahaloth]

At the risk of sending this to over 1000 posts- um, guns?


:confused:

[Valgard]

:confused:

A lot of people from other countries are confused by gun ownership in the US - why do some folks find it so necessary, why are there so many guns floating around, etc. This was actually one of the things I was coming in to mention.

Please note I'm not taking a stance on the issue, just pointing out that to many foreigners it doesn't make sense.

Gigantic SUVs and trucks for people who don't haul things for a living. I've got friends and relatives from Europe, they don't understand why anyone would want to drive a Humvee.

[Mahaloth]

A lot of people from other countries are confused by gun ownership in the US - why do some folks find it so necessary, why are there so many guns floating around, etc. This was actually one of the things I was coming in to mention.

II know....is he/she from the USA?

[Isamu]

It's not my culture per se, but tipping in the US for some jobs but not for others is confusing for a lot of people. Especially in hotels that take care to specifically mention that a charge for services is automatically added to your bill, knowing whether or not to tip is a PITA, and helps me enjoy my stay less. I usually just go ahead and tip anyway, but I feel like things could be clearer and everyone would be happy.

[Gatopescado]

Personal Fucking Hygene.

Yes, I am a decadant Western Flag-waving American. And I bathe regularly. I don't stink like livestock (I have many around the ranch, I know. I can "compare"). I shave now and then, wash my hair, armpits and ass (and everywhere inbetween). I use deodorant, and never use "cologne" to mask excessive nasty body odor. I do not foster cheese in my crotch or between my toes.

On second review: I pluck the disgusting hairs out of my nose. You know, the ones about 2 inchs long, looking like spider's legs? And the ones growing out of the very tip of my nose and my ears. Just a curtesy to my fellow (dash) man. No one should have to look at that shit.

Deal with it.

[VanillaGorilla]

Personal Fucking Hygene.

Yes, I am a decadant Western Flag-waving American. And I bathe regularly. I don't stink like livestock (I have many around the ranch, I know. I can "compare"). I shave now and then, wash my hair, armpits and ass (and everywhere inbetween). I use deodorant, and never use "cologne" to mask excessive nasty body odor. I do not foster cheese in my crotch or between my toes.

On second review: I pluck the disgusting hairs out of my nose. You know, the ones about 2 inchs long, looking like spider's legs? And the ones growing out of the very tip of my nose and my ears. Just a curtesy to my fellow (dash) man. No one should have to look at that shit.

Deal with it.

That does not seem weird to me.
Except for the flag waving.
Actually that may be something that seems weird about Sweden, we are not very patriotic. Most of us don't even bother to celebrate our national day, I think.

[madmonk28]

Personal Fucking Hygene.

Yes, I am a decadant Western Flag-waving American. And I bathe regularly. I don't stink like livestock (I have many around the ranch, I know. I can "compare"). I shave now and then, wash my hair, armpits and ass (and everywhere inbetween). I use deodorant, and never use "cologne" to mask excessive nasty body odor. I do not foster cheese in my crotch or between my toes.

On second review: I pluck the disgusting hairs out of my nose. You know, the ones about 2 inchs long, looking like spider's legs? And the ones growing out of the very tip of my nose and my ears. Just a curtesy to my fellow (dash) man. No one should have to look at that shit.

Deal with it. I think this says more about your perception of the outside world, then the outside world's perception of you.

[jabiru]

1. Cricket

2. Vegemite

3. Compulsory voting

[tumbleddown]

Apparently, from the reactions of my British friends to my AIM status messages, the widespread availability of free wifi in coffee shops and libraries is unusual, as is the idea of going out somewhere with one's laptop to make use of that wifi.

[panache45]

Peanut butter.

[HazelNutCoffee]

We were just talking about this the other day - I met a guy (mid 20s) who works at a preschool and he said he was totally freaked out when they asked him to help bathe the kids.

"You mean, just dispense soap, right?" said he, dubiously.

The director made an impatient scrubbing gesture under his armpits. "Wash! Help them wash!"

He said he spent his first few weeks glancing over his shoulder in the showers, terrified he was going to be arrested as a pedophile any minute. Even now it makes him nervous. I think Koreans expect pedophiles to be obviously deviant and easy to spot, which is bizarre considering the Jon-Benet Ramsey case a few years ago. But in general it's not weird for Korean teachers to have physical contact with their students, which tends to freak the Western teachers out a bit at first.

[TheMadHun]

I lived for a while in South Africa in the 70s. They didn't know what a lot of our expressions meant.
Stop on a dime? - what's a dime? Twisted as a pretzel? - don't have pretzels.

Eat pizza with your hands? And buckets of chicken? - Like how the Bantu eat?

They were confused about our roads being numbered. At the time they only had one numbered road, M1 from Cape Town to Pretoria. Every other road between towns was marked not with a name or number at all. At each intersection there were arrows as to what city was in each direction. So you'd better know your geography.

They were appalled that we had stores open on Saturday afternoon and Sunday. They only allowed you to buy perishable vegetable and the daily paper, but not canned goods or weekly magazines, which had no good excuse to break the sabbath.

The didn't understand free radio and TV - they bought annual licenses

They were shocked (pun) by electrical outlets at shin level. All theirs were at waist level to keep children safe, but then they had killer 220 voltage.

[Broomstick]

From talking to folks outside the US, puzzling things about our culture include:

Flags everywhere, all the time.

Gun ownership as a right

Lack of national, universal health care (most seem to find it appalling and barbaric, even a human rights violation)

Multiple layers of government

Vast distances between cities

[Really Not All That Bright]

Multiple layers of government
I don't think many people would find that odd. Almost every country - even ones with unitary governments - have the same levels we do (national, regional, municipal).

Some people would find it odd that there are rights "reserved for the states" - I certainly did - but that's different.

[tdn]

2. Baseball - Now, see, this I have no explanation for. Why, yes, it is boring 99% of the time and extremely slow paced, but it is big here. I have explanation for this. Fun to play, though. Watching it is horrid.

Slight hijack: I once had a roommate who liked watching baseball, but hated watching football. He said that football was too stop-start, and hence very boring.

[Broomstick]

I don't think many people would find that odd. Almost every country - even ones with unitary governments - have the same levels we do (national, regional, municipal).

Some people would find it odd that there are rights "reserved for the states" - I certainly did - but that's different.
Hey, I'm just reporting what people who are not Americans have told me. Those comments seem to come most often from people in China, Eastern Europe, and other nations where central authority and central planning play a much stronger role. I recall one occasion where I was having no success in describing different police jurisdictions, or why the Federal government can't use the army to police high-crime areas, it was just inconceivable to him that there was a law against doing the latter.

Clearly, many in what are considered "western" countries understand our multi-layered government but not everyone is "western", or from a democracy, or from a nation of huge geographical extent (which is also a factor in multi-layer governments).

And the folks I know from Singapore would dispute having "national, regional, and municipal" layers of government as their nation is a sovereign city-state and all three of those levels are collapsed into one. As just an example of how everyone is not like us.

[Arglefraster]

My coworker is from Germany. She told me she was a bit taken aback by American customer service. The first time she went to a fast food place and the cashier smiled and said "Hi, how are you?", my coworker actually looked over her shoulder because she thought the cashier must have seen someone she knows. In Germany, both you and the customer service person know that neither of you really care how the other is doing, and you both just want to get your transaction done. Being friendly and chatty in that situation would be considered a bit silly and a waste of time.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I recall one occasion where I was having no success in describing different police jurisdictions, or why the Federal government can't use the army to police high-crime areas, it was just inconceivable to him that there was a law against doing the latter.
Sure, but that's got nothing to do with multiple levels of government. The Governor of a state can't send out the National Guard to police high-crime areas either.
And the folks I know from Singapore would dispute having "national, regional, and municipal" layers of government as their nation is a sovereign city-state and all three of those levels are collapsed into one. As just an example of how everyone is not like us.
Well, obviously. There's no point in having a regional government if you've only got one region, but I would have thought that went without saying.

[Nava]

For Spain:

the way we eat. In many countries, meals are one dish with side dishes; here it's one dish then another, you only get sides in some restaurant (and it's a foreign influence). This is normal for other Latino and Mediterranean countries but I've had to explain both systems. Then there's the times, and eating at different times if it's in or out, and at different times in the summer and in winter.

Latin Americans often complain that we're too much in a hurry, too much about work; "anglos" often complain about "come back mañana" and have problems understanding notions like "you do not talk about work at meals". I think it depends a lot on the specific region and people they've had to deal with.

The multiple languages can be extremely confusing, specially to people who find themselves in Catalonia or Galicia wondering how come they don't understand what people say, without having bothered to find out that those two regions have two Romance languages (Basque is actually less of a problem, as everybody realizes very fast "that ain't Spanish!").

[Mops]

My coworker is from Germany. She told me she was a bit taken aback by American customer service. The first time she went to a fast food place and the cashier smiled and said "Hi, how are you?", my coworker actually looked over her shoulder because she thought the cashier must have seen someone she knows. In Germany, both you and the customer service person know that neither of you really care how the other is doing, and you both just want to get your transaction done. Being friendly and chatty in that situation would be considered a bit silly and a waste of time.

Well, that, and one important difference that I think Germans are not aware of is the different meaning of a smile: It is imy impression that smiling in the US means politeness, while in Germany it means affection - so smiling at random strangers would definitely be phony.

One thing that I have heard referred to from foreigners wrt Germany is shops being closed on Sundays and, particularly, them ascribing that prohibition to church influence - even sometimes, specifically, to the Catholic church. That's a misunderstanding IMO - both churches do support the ban but that's by way of being incidental. Much more importantly, the reason the vast majority of us working stiffs, religious or godless, are OK with the constitutional protection of the Sunday is a lifestyle issue - doing away with the protection of the Sunday would be the thin end of the wedge towards our employers demanding a still more hectic week of us. BTW one related thing that many foreigners probably don't much understand is the warm, fuzzy feeling the word Feierabend evokes in a German's soul...

[Nava]

Well, that, and one important difference that I think Germans are not aware of is the different meaning of a smile: It is imy impression that smiling in the US means politeness, while in Germany it means affection - so smiling at random strangers would definitely be phony.

On a related note, and I realize it's not my country, one thing foreigners find strange about the US is the usage of "how are you?" to mean "hello." In many other countries, people don't ask "how are you?" or "how was your weekend?" unless they're willing to hear everything about your chilblains, your children or the movie you went to.

[StusBlues]

My grad school roommate from China was absolutely astounded that anyone would willingly volunteer to serve in the military. Then again, so is my dad.

[Sitnam]

Hell, I can do you one better, Things about Wisconsin culture those in large parts of the US would find weird

-Ice fishing
-Meat raffles
-gun lotteries
-White fish boil
-cheese curds
-drive-thru liquor stores

I don't understand some of this crap and I'm FROM here.

[Dallas Jones]

2. Baseball - Now, see, this I have no explanation for. Why, yes, it is boring 99% of the time and extremely slow paced, but it is big here. I have explanation for this. Fun to play, though. Watching it is horrid.


How about US Football? The ball only occationally is kicked with the feet. What the rest of the world thinks of as football is soccer.

And that soccer in the US is mainly played by children. Yes, I know we have Pro Soccer teams, but I can go all year without ever seeing a soccer game on TV or hearing of it in the news. Unless it is an Olympics year soccer in the US stays off the radar compared to football.

[Sigmagirl]

Hell, I can do you one better, Things about Wisconsin culture those in large parts of the US would find weird

-Ice fishing
-Meat raffles
-gun lotteries
-White fish boil
-cheese curds
-drive-thru liquor stores

I don't understand some of this crap and I'm FROM here.

Add butter burgers.

[Really Not All That Bright]

And Brett Favre.

[picker]

and smelt frys.

[Ludovic]

(Basque is actually less of a problem, as everybody realizes very fast "that ain't Spanish!").

Except in the technical sense......::::running very fast:::

[Tastes of Chocolate]

Ice fishing.
Try explaining to someone from Africa that we build these little huts, drag them out onto frozen lakes, plow roads, haul out generators, and spend our weekends sitting in these huts drinking beer, playing cards and watching football, occasionally broken up by catching a fish through a whole in the floor.

Usually I lose them after the "we drive out on top of the lake".

[Mississippienne]

Turkey:
-- Aggressive pedestrians. You almost have to march out into the road and dare someone to hit you to cross the street.
-- Every product having '-turk' in the name, from Cola Turka to cell phones to McDonalds meals (the Greek McDonalds also had McGreeks or something like that).
-- Men kissing one another on the cheek and walking hand-in-hand in public. My Serbian friend asked me "are all these guys gay?"
-- Restaurants with separate sections for families and single women.
-- Little kids diving and swimming in the harbor.

Mississippi:
-- Lack of big cities.
-- Strange slang terms like 'buggy' (shopping cart), 'chifferobe' (dresser), 'lightning bug' (firefly), etc.
-- Sweet tea. I'm reasonably sure if you examined my blood sample under a microscope, it would be 75% sweet tea.
-- Pouring peanuts in Coke.
-- Almost everyone being a generation or two away from sharecropping or the Klan.
-- People pulling over to the side of the road and turning on their headlights while a funeral procession drives past.
-- Crawfish boils.

[Foxy40]

Mississippi:
-- Lack of big cities.
-- Strange slang terms like 'buggy' (shopping cart), 'chifferobe' (dresser), 'lightning bug' (firefly), etc.


I grew up on Long Island and we called them lightening bugs as well.

[Nava]

Except in the technical sense......::::running very fast:::

What technical sense?

[Sitnam]

What technical sense?
Perhaps because 'technically' they're Spanish.

[FalconFinder]

No, they're not.

They live between France and Spain and claim neither heritage.

I have done some research due to there being some Basque in my ancestry. They're a fascinating people...

http://basque.unr.edu/16/16.1t/16.1.1.faqs1.htm

[TheMadEngineer]

Things foreigners would find strange about the U.S. (At least the places I've had experience with):

- The age of 21 being required to drink
- Football (and why we don't call it handegg)
- Maple Syrup (Seriously, the French at least don't get this particular food product)
- Our previous "Justification" of torture
- Why we feel like we need to invade just about every country that kinda sorta makes us angry
- Our xenophobia
- Suburban angst
- Obsession with protecting Israel
- Obsession with holidays
- Constant credit card usage and bad mortgages
- Jon & Kate + 8
- Hatred of science
- The many areas that disagree with basic scientific principals (e.g. evolution)
- Willful ignorance (see two above)
- Violence on T.V.
- Lack of nudity/sex on T.V.

And that's all I have time for right now ^_^

[bouv]

From what I've gathered, most people outside the US (and maybe Canada?) think root beer is gross. I don't mind, because it just means more for me.

[Really Not All That Bright]

No, they're not.
Yes they are. They're Spanish (or to a lesser extent, French) citizens, regardless of what they claim.

[Mahaloth]

I'll add a few more that I've thought of. I live in the U.S.

1. Tipping - It's weird. It helps to realize that their salaries are adjusted ton include it.

2. Credit Cards - Again, I have never carried debt and accrued interest, but some people do. I have no idea why.

3. Patriotism - I know most people are patriotic, at least a little, but I think that America's high level of patriotism might seem weird. I know not everyone is super patriotic, but I think it's a higher level here than in China, where I spent two years.

[Arachne]

In the same vein as
Things about Wisconsin culture those in large parts of the US would find weird


Things about Massachusets culture those in large parts of the US would find weird*

"Staties"
Clam bakes and boils
"Down the Cape"
Redsox fever, even for non-baseball fans
Linked to above, irrational hatred for New York (though they do clog up our roads in the summa')
P-town (Provencetown) = Gay Mecca; I think the closest equivalent to it would be San Francisco, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Western MA may as well be a whole 'nother state...
Boston accent - we're fast talkers, too, so keep up!

[overlyverbose]

Toilet paper. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Why waste good paper to smear your feces around on your butt when you could be washing it until it's squeaky clean?

The "sit" toilet vs. the "squat" toilet. If you use a squat toilet, you don't have to touch the seat and you're much more likely to hit your target while hovering if you squat vs. try to hover in a seated position.

Hand washing. We usually use utensils to eat our food, so we probably don't wash our hands as frequently as a culture who eats with their hands.

[SanibelMan]

Hell, I can do you one better, Things about Wisconsin culture those in large parts of the US would find weird

-Ice fishing An aside: My wife got a job here as a bank teller, and in chatting with one of her customers, she told him she'd just moved here from Kansas City. "Oh, Missouri, my in-laws are from there," he said. "Man, they're weird. We were visiting them last December, and when I told them I was gonna go ice-fishing on the lake, they looked at me like I was crazy!"

[Ludovic]

Except in the technical sense......::::running very fast:::Oh god, I apologize, I thought that big brouhaha of a thread several years back was famous enough that everyone would get the callback....carry on (And I dont want to search for it for fear someone will continue before my five minutes are up :))

[pravnik]

One I got from my old anthropology head: chairs. Sitting in a chair seems like the most natural thing in the world to us, but watch someone who has never even seen a chair before try to get comfortable in one.

[ShibbOleth]

I'll go first. I'm an American from Michigan, though I have lived overseas.

1. Ice cold beer. No, our beer is not so bad that is has to be ice cold, but I do get that it seems that way to others. Hey, we like it cold.

Actually, much of American beer is so bad that it has to be ice cold. There are a few exceptions. Getting beer ice cold masks the bad flavor or lack of taste. We've been programmed by Miller, Anheuser Busch, et al.

Fortunately there are now a lot of better alternatives available to the bad mass produced crap.

[guizot]

Not mentioned above, about the U.S.:


(Primarily from the perspective of Europeans)

--Huge portions served at fast-food places

--(related) Wide-spread obesity

--(except beer and wine) Drinks always served with ice

--Illegal to drink on the sidewalk (in front of a restaurant or club)

--U.S. currency: All bills the same size and color, with monotonous designs; coins have no numbers on them to show their value

--Store-front Evangelical churches

--Laws changing from state to state

--Musical theater

--High rate of homelessness (particularly in urban areas)

--"Excessively" courteous driving

--Jaywalking laws (heavily enforced in many cities)

--Students addressing professors by first name (grad school)

and so on....

--(From the perspective of Japanese and Koreans) Driver's license cheap and easy to get, to the point where many high schools provide driving classes for free.

[Frodo]

I'll say Peronism, but we also dont really understand it

[Cyn]

I was born and raised in California and lots of things we do here are considered weird.
Menudo, breakfast of champions, hangover cure and all around home remedy, is made of hominy, beef tripe and pig's feet. Menudo is served in restaurants, at church gatherings and at someone's grandma's house.
Sunglasses. 24/7 365
Highlighted hair on young children all the way up through the grandma making menudo
Use of the word "like" as in "Like, OMG, I need some menudo; my head is, like killing me!"
Making a family of friends and animals--most of the world seems to see family as people they share bloodlines with.
and so on...

[Mississippienne]

The 'flag-waving' stereotype makes me go :dubious: I keep seeing it all over this board, but when I was in Turkey and Greece I saw Turkish and Greek flags EVERYWHERE. Shops sold shirts with their flags on it. People hung flags on their houses. I saw at least as many flags in Athens and Istanbul as I would see in the US. Not so many on their bumper stickers, but that's about it. Is it just Northern and Western Europeans who don't fly their own flags? Or is it just American flags that shouldn't be flown?

And once again, as far as homelessness goes, I saw plenty of beggars and cripples (Istanbul) and drug addicts (Athens) and hookers (both). And as far as prudery on TV, I don't know how hot and heavy the Greeks got (didn't watch Greek TV) but the Turks don't even have kissing on their soap operas, and certainly no nekkid people. Our TV is apparently pretty violent though -- my friends were all convinced from watching Law & Order that you would be raped and murdered if you ever went to New York City.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Menudo is served in restaurants? The Puerto Rican boy band? :confused:

[Animastryfe]

On a related note, and I realize it's not my country, one thing foreigners find strange about the US is the usage of "how are you?" to mean "hello." In many other countries, people don't ask "how are you?" or "how was your weekend?" unless they're willing to hear everything about your chilblains, your children or the movie you went to.

http://xkcd.com/222/

I'm rather like the guy on the right. I'm from Canada, and although I've grown up with this common usage I still find it puzzling.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I grew up on Long Island and we called them lightening bugs as well.

Same here.

[Pyper]

I lived in Spain, and what people found weird about America/Americans, was not exactly what I expected.

At the top of the list of things I was quizzed about was our strange holidays and holiday traditions, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, and especially Halloween. "Do kids really dress up and go around asking for candy?" Spaniards asked. "REALLY?" It was so bizarre to them as to be unbelievable.

My eating habits were strange to them as well. Why did I not consume a loaf of bread per day? Why did I eat so many desserts such as yogurt and fruit? Why on earth was I eating raw vegetables? Didn't I know that that was dangerous?

Also, peanut butter. My roommates could not understand how I could eat something that looked like "baby shit." Baby shit combined with rabbit food (raw celery and carrots) was just pushing it too far. After many months, I convinced one roommate to have a taste of peanut butter. "It tastes...like peanuts," she said, incredulously. "Yes, of course it does!" I said. She explained that to her, peanuts were a food you munched on at a bar, not something found on a sandwich.

[GuanoLad]

Witchetty Grubs

[TheMadEngineer]

I know this one for a fact: our wastefulness with water. Long showers, specifically. The French at least in the area I visited had a tendency to follow a pattern of wet, lather, rinse. The lather portion of showering involving no water and the wetting and rinsing portions being very short (also very cold).

[ruadh]

I suppose I'll do Ireland since no one else has. The weirdest thing I find here is the education system. Here is a scenario taken from real life (I am not making this up):

You are a parent. Your children are of an age to start primary school. However, all the public schools in your area are run by the Catholic Church, and your family is not Catholic. Furthermore, because of bad planning these schools are all over-subscribed and therefore the schools are exercising their statutory right to only admit Catholic children. Your options are:

have your children baptised, into a religion you don't believe in, so the local public school will take them
find enough like-minded parents to start your own school and apply for recognition from the Department of Education (the first time I heard someone say "why don't these parents start their own school" I thought they were taking the piss but no, that is really what parents are expected to do in this situation)
or
move.

And this is accepted as normal. It completely boggles my mind.

[Wallenstein]

German students tap their desks with their knuckles to indicate approval for the lecture.

I still find the concept of arranged marriages odd, especially when otherwise 100% secular English friends follow their parents' wishes and pop back to India / Pakistan to meet a potential spouse.

[Nava]

No, they're not.

They live between France and Spain and claim neither heritage.

I have done some research due to there being some Basque in my ancestry. They're a fascinating people...

http://basque.unr.edu/16/16.1t/16.1.1.faqs1.htm

Ehm, you seem to confuse "heritage" with some other concept; neither Spain nor France would be what they are without their Basque, same as they wouldn't be what they are without people of other ancestries. Some of us have this strange notion that you can be Basque, Navarrese, a Spaniard and European without exploding or anything. And I don't just mean us half-breeds.

The "live mostly in both France and Spain," true. I know Basque of Spanish, French, American, Colombian and Costa Rican nationalities.


Menudo is served in restaurants? The Puerto Rican boy band? :confused:

Menudo or menudillo, as a dish, means guts. As in, the thin intestine. Menudo also happens to mean "small one," which is where the music group got its name.

[Nava]

The multiple languages can be extremely confusing, specially to people who find themselves in Catalonia or Galicia wondering how come they don't understand what people say, without having bothered to find out that those two regions have two Romance languages (Basque is actually less of a problem, as everybody realizes very fast "that ain't Spanish!").

Except in the technical sense......::::running very fast:::

Perhaps because 'technically' they're Spanish.

Yes they are. They're Spanish (or to a lesser extent, French) citizens, regardless of what they claim.

Allow me to rephrase, for those people with comprehension problems.

Catalan, Galego and Spanish (that is, "the language commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English") are similar enough to be mutually quite understandable by those who speak them at native-like levels, but different enough to confuse those whose kowledge of any of them isn't so high. Often, foreigners with low-to-medium knowledge of the language commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English hear someone speaking either Galego or Catalan and are confused because they do not understand the speaker but believe that they should, mistakenly thinking that he is speaking the language commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English.

The language commonly known as Basque by those who speak that aforementioned language known as English, on the other hand, is different enough to be evidently a different language from that one commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English, therefore the simultaneous existence of the language commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English and of this other language which those who are speaking English refer to as Basque does not lead people with some knowledge of one of the language commonly known as Spanish by those who speak the other language known as English by those who speak it to mistakenly believe that they are hearing this language called Spanish in the other language called English and not understanding it: they realize it is a different language.

Was that clear, if convoluted, enough for you? Now give me a tree analysis :p

[FriarTed]

Hell, I can do you one better, Things about Wisconsin culture those in large parts of the US would find weird

-Ice fishing
-Meat raffles
-gun lotteries
-White fish boil
-cheese curds
-drive-thru liquor stores

I don't understand some of this crap and I'm FROM here.

Don't forget cannibal &/or ghoul serial killers.

[FriarTed]

http://xkcd.com/222/

I'm rather like the guy on the right. I'm from Canada, and although I've grown up with this common usage I still find it puzzling.

Sheldon Cooper!

[willthekittensurvive?]

Dutch here,

In Holland we have Sint Nicolaas, each year in December he brings all the children who were nice gifts and all the kids who were naughty are put in a cloth sac and taken back to Spain

But that is not the weird part, Sint Nicolaas has a small army of slaves/helpers “Zwarte Pieten” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet) (Black Petes) here a image search (http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&q=zwarte%20piet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)of some of them,

Come December adults put on lots of black/brown make up and put on a nappy wig, and go around throwing out sweets and threatening to abduct sinners, in what kind of looks like blackface/minstrel makeup

I know some sources have the Sint Nicolaas/Zwarte Piet relationship as a liberator/ex slave,
I don’t think it’s meant as Racist, but I know some Suriname people who get really uncomfortable each December

[FriarTed]

Dutch here,

In Holland we have Sint Nicolaas, each year in December he brings all the children who were nice gifts and all the kids who were naughty are put in a cloth sac and taken back to Spain

But that is not the weird part, Sint Nicolaas has a small army of slaves/helpers “Zwarte Pieten” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet) (Black Petes) here a image search (http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&q=zwarte%20piet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)of some of them,

Come December adults put on lots of black/brown make up and put on a nappy wig, and go around throwing out sweets and threatening to abduct sinners, in what kind of looks like blackface/minstrel makeup

I know some sources have the Sint Nicolaas/Zwarte Piet relationship as a liberator/ex slave,
I don’t think it’s meant as Racist, but I know some Suriname people who get really uncomfortable each December

For a hilarious look at the American take on this, google up "David Sedaris" and "Six to Eight Black Men".

There was also a SNL skit years ago with Eddie Murphy (I think) as "Black Pete".

[Marienee]

Dutch here,

In Holland we have Sint Nicolaas, each year in December he brings all the children who were nice gifts and all the kids who were naughty are put in a cloth sac and taken back to Spain

But that is not the weird part,

As the foreigner who lives in Holland, may I share with you that that is the weird part. That anyone would consider it to be a punishment to go to Spain rather than remain in Holland in December is incomprehensible.

The other is just a certain level of racial insensitivity which is jarring (in this and all its manifestations) but not at all weird.

[TruCelt]

Witchetty Grubs

Had to know what these were. . . .

Witchetty Grubs Recipes. ... The reason this recipe is for only one serving is that it is almost impossible to find anyone else to eat them ...


LOL!

No question, this is my new favorite phrase.

"That boy ain't got the good sense God gave a Witchetty Grub"

"I'm hungry enough to eat a Witchetty Grub"

"She had the body of a Goddess and the face of a Witchetty Grub"


It just fits so beautifully into every context. . .

[Shirley Ujest]

My coworker is from Germany. She told me she was a bit taken aback by American customer service. The first time she went to a fast food place and the cashier smiled and said "Hi, how are you?", my coworker actually looked over her shoulder because she thought the cashier must have seen someone she knows. In Germany, both you and the customer service person know that neither of you really care how the other is doing, and you both just want to get your transaction done. Being friendly and chatty in that situation would be considered a bit silly and a waste of time.

I totally agree with your co-worker ( and I completely GET the german efficiency stuff.)

When I pull up to TACO BELL and the Invisible FAST FOOD GODS ask me, " Hi, how are you?" I swear one of these days I am going to start rambling about my PMS, migraines, sore toe, no money, and my cat who likes to barf up furballs.

[Shirley Ujest]

Eating Corn on the Cob.

Zee German relations were a bit off-put by the fact we eat corn on the cob. ( Eating with your hands !!! it's sooo very wrong!!!!) and it is sweet corn. The few bits of corn I've had in german were blech.

Corn is for the animals, apparently.

















moooo

[TruCelt]

Ireland: treating drinking water like molten gold. Every time I go there I dehydrate at some point. Ask for a drink of water nad you'll get what Americans used to call a "juice glass" a tiny four ounce serving of lukewarm water.

Corollary: I'm sure that to outsiders the American "Big Gulp" (and equivalent self-service mega sodas) must seem ridiculous. Especially since the 30 oz. cup has only about 8 oz of soda in it due to all the ice, which the American customer has added themselves, and actually shaken the cup to pack the ice more tightly before adding the token drizzle of soda.

Also Ireland: The utter terror, approaching phobia, that one's dog will be "spoiled" by people petting it, or otherwise acknowledging it's existence. Also the horror of actually feeding, washing, or allowing the dog into the house. I often wonder how Irish dogs know that they belong to a given owner at all. (Add on, speaking to the dog in English and the Cat in Gaeilge, though it makes sense in context.)

Corollary: Americans having the mobile grooming van come to their house to wash and style their dogs. Even people who themselves go to Hair Cuttery.

[Wallenstein]

Also the German thing about drafts (Es zieht!)... I think there was a thread on this being a wider central European thing too.

[Marienee]

Eating Corn on the Cob.



You can get sweet corn in Holland, it costs about a euro and a half per cob. Comes in packets of two. Which causes me to miss the tables piled high in the grocery store in Georgia. Oddly, the fields are full of corn. But as you say, corn is evidently for animals mostly. My husband thinks it's icky.

(Though this and black pete are not by any means the weirdest thing about the dutch. Though there are so many candidates.... )

However it must be said that my father and his Alabama relatives consider white corn to be for people and yellow corn for pigs so it's not entirely unique to this part of Europe.

[Mops]

One thing that I just recently learned, from this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=522352), is that Frauenparkplätze (parking spaces near the entrance/near well-frequented areas reserved for the use of women), common in Germany, seem to be unknown in much of the rest of the world (except possibly Korea).
Specifically: "There aren't any" from US, UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, NZ, Sweden; "there are some" in Venezuela, Korea.

Frauenparkplätze (some (http://www.hs-pforzheim.de/De-de/Hochschule/Ansprechpartner/Gleichstellungsbeauftragte/Sicherheit/PublishingImages/frauenparkplatz.bmp) examples (http://www.funnyparking.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/naturlich-ein-frauenparkplatz.jpg) of (http://www.binnen-i.de/Frauenparken%20017.jpg) signage (http://www.andreas-dahm.de/wp-content/gallery/einzelbilder/frauenparkplatz.jpg) - note the 'female' symbol on the ground in the last example) were introduced in the 1980s, to further women's 'subjective safety' in public, particularly in the evening and at night. (The concept of subjective safety was introduced after it was pointed out that men are subject to more violence from strangers in public spaces than women are). It is meant not for encumbered women (pregnant or with kids), as with spaces for this group encountered in other countries and also in Germany (example of signage for that (http://www.pitopia.de/pictures/standard/r/ringa111/14/ringa111_90214.jpg)), but for women who feel unsafe walking from a distant, badly lit parking space to the public road/to a restaurant etc.

[alexandra]

Dutch here,

In Holland we have Sint Nicolaas, each year in December he brings all the children who were nice gifts and all the kids who were naughty are put in a cloth sac and taken back to Spain

But that is not the weird part, Sint Nicolaas has a small army of slaves/helpers “Zwarte Pieten” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet) (Black Petes) here a image search (http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&q=zwarte%20piet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)of some of them,

Come December adults put on lots of black/brown make up and put on a nappy wig, and go around throwing out sweets and threatening to abduct sinners, in what kind of looks like blackface/minstrel makeup

I know some sources have the Sint Nicolaas/Zwarte Piet relationship as a liberator/ex slave,
I don’t think it’s meant as Racist, but I know some Suriname people who get really uncomfortable each December

Oh my god, David Sedaris' piece about this is absolutely brilliant. It's called "six to eight black men" or something.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Dutch here,

In Holland we have Sint Nicolaas, each year in December he brings all the children who were nice gifts and all the kids who were naughty are put in a cloth sac and taken back to Spain

Oh yes. Also: soused herring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soused_herring). It's herring season now, and boy are they TASTY!.

And the multitude of bicycles and (to american eyes) small cars in the cities.

[SciFiSam]

Not something that would be considered odd, exactly, but something that seems to be unique to the UK: crisps with dozens of different flavours.

What probably would seem odd is Pantomime. Not the Marcel Marceau kind of mime, but a traditional play, usually based on fairy tales, that appears around the Christmas season.

The stock characters are the Dame (a woman played by a man, though with no effort to actually look like a woman), the Principal Boy (played by a girl in tights - usually Dick Whittington or somesuch is the character), Buttons (a servant, often camp, always in love with the princess) and the pantomime horse or cow (played by two unlucky actors in one costume). There is always lots and lots of innuendo and celeb D-listers as the main attraction, except for the Dame, who's probably been doing the same job for twenty years.

Sometimes it can be like a Catholic mass with its expected call and responses. 'It's behind you!' 'Oh no it isn't!' 'Boooooo!' and so on.

They're bloody great, but also rather odd.

Apparently, from the reactions of my British friends to my AIM status messages, the widespread availability of free wifi in coffee shops and libraries is unusual, as is the idea of going out somewhere with one's laptop to make use of that wifi.

Where do your friends live? It's common in London.

[Reepicheep]

This drove our Latin American exchange students nuts – asking permission from family members. I ask my brother to use his drill, even though he is my brother. My mom asks me to use my pannini maker, even though she is my mother. The idea that family members retain possession of something and can deny use to other family members confused each of our exchange students greatly.

[Cat Whisperer]

Apparently people find it weird in Canada that we take our shoes off when we come into our own house or someone else's. :D

[Max the Immortal]

...Gun ownership as a right...


What baffles this Canadian is gun ownership as a hobby. More than once I've been surprised by an American being able to rattle off, say, the specs of sixteen different types of assault rifle at the drop of a hat. It's somewhat jarring when I've known said American for a while and they've never before indicated a particular interest in guns.

I've noticed that even foreigners who are familiar with peanut butter do not consider peanut butter and jelly (or jam) to be a valid combination for sandwiches. They have for some reason declared peanut butter to be "in the savory category" and therefore completely incompatible with anything sweet. My kind, of course, prefer peanut butter when it is combined with strawberry jam or honey or somesuch.

[Student Driver]

Not something that would be considered odd, exactly, but something that seems to be unique to the UK: crisps with dozens of different flavours.

Not so weird for Americans. The UK choice of flavors may be odd in the US (and vice versa), but American crisps/potato chips come in dozens of flavors as well. Off the top of my head, at the local Wal-Mart I can pick up plain, salt and vinegar, malt vinegar, dill pickle, barbecue sauce (several varieties, ranging from spicy to sweet to smoky), sour cream and chive/onion, sour cream and cheddar, plain cheddar, barbecue cheddar, jalapeno, lime, pizza, chipotle, ketchup (spicy or regular), loaded baked potato, baby back rib, sweet corn, Mediterranean, steak, black pepper, potato skin, ranch dressing, guacamole, curry, cheeseburger, mustard... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, as Pringles crisps come in a mind-boggling array, and there are always seasonal or limited-edition flavors from Kerrs and Lays.

In addition, there are multiple varieties of chip/crisp texture-- "crisp" (processed potato substance, like Tato Skins, Pringles, Lays Stax, Munchos), baked chip, normal fried chip (in organic or regular forms), ripple chip, waffle chip, and kettle-fried chip.

Yes, I have an odd fascination with junk food.

[tumbleddown]

Where do your friends live? It's common in London.
My friend in Manchester has a horrible time finding wifi. When his internet at home went down, he was quite put out until the modem could be replaced the next week. He wishes he could easily go somewhere and get online. But it was my friend in London who was completely flabbergasted that I'd go to a library to use their wifi when my internet connection at home was fine. Why bother, was her perspective. I wanted to be somewhere without the distractions of home. That didn't seem to resonate.

[calm kiwi]

The All Blacks.

Visitors to New Zealand always seem to be perplexed by the countries obsession with the All Blacks and rugby in general and it is a national obsession. I don't get it either but I'm part of a very small percentage of the NZ population who just can't be bothered with rugby.

I did meet a German last week who was beyond excited at the thought of seeing the haka at an All Blacks game though.

Other than Australians and the British, the rest of the world seems to believe that by calling ourselves Kiwis we are naming ourselves after fruit.

They are wrong

[Martini Enfield]

What baffles this Canadian is gun ownership as a hobby. More than once I've been surprised by an American being able to rattle off, say, the specs of sixteen different types of assault rifle at the drop of a hat. It's somewhat jarring when I've known said American for a while and they've never before indicated a particular interest in guns.

Gun ownership as a hobby isn't actually that uncommon outside the US, you know. I know plenty of collectors in Canada, the UK, New Zealand, and of course here in Australia.

Other than Australians and the British, the rest of the world seems to believe that by calling ourselves Kiwis we are naming ourselves after fruit.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to explain to people (usually from the US) that a "Kiwi" is either a small flightless bird native to New Zealand, or a person from New Zealand, and that the fruit with the furry skin and green centre they're thinking of is a "Kiwifruit". It's really not a hard concept to grasp and I do wish the Agricultural Marketing Board would do something about correcting the misapprehension.

Back on topic:

Shops closing early on Sundays. In most places (that I've been, anyway) shops might close a little earlier on Sundays, but in QLD they're generally either closed completely or, in certain places, open from 10am-4pm, with a few exceptions for supermarkets and petrol stations and things like that, which are open longer hours.

[alexandra]

But it was my friend in London who was completely flabbergasted that I'd go to a library to use their wifi when my internet connection at home was fine. Why bother, was her perspective. I wanted to be somewhere without the distractions of home. That didn't seem to resonate.

Is this still supposed to be a cultural difference? Because it's not.

[bengangmo]

Other than Australians and the British, the rest of the world seems to believe that by calling ourselves Kiwis we are naming ourselves after fruit.

They are wrong

I hate this with a passion. Its a kiwiFRUIT people. Please get it right!

ANd I don't think too much is gonna be done now that we have the Zespri.

[RickJay]

Things foreigners would find strange about the U.S. (At least the places I've had experience with):

- The age of 21 being required to drink
- Football (and why we don't call it handegg)
- Maple Syrup (Seriously, the French at least don't get this particular food product)
- Our previous "Justification" of torture
- Why we feel like we need to invade just about every country that kinda sorta makes us angry
Would that really be something that would confuse someone visiting the USA? I mean, it's not like this is something that people experience walking around the streets of an American town. Is it really part of American culture? Something Americans commonly engage in on a personal level?

And in all seriousness, what educated person would be unaware of the fact that big military powers get into a lot of wars?

You seem to be really projecting a lot of your personal political opinions here. For instance:

- Our xenophobia
Do ya REALLY think the United States is an unusually xenophobic culture? Really? More xenophobic than European cultures, where they've started electing fascists to the European parliament? Japan, where foreigners are in polite conversation referred to by insulting names? Come on, now. From what country do you think a visitor could possibly come who would be surprised and confused by xenophobia in America? Name five.

Come on.

My only experience with people being confused by Canada is that folks from western and northern Europe invariably are bewildered by two things:

1. The size of the country and how that affects the way we live, and
2. The extremes in climate, both summer (much hotter anhd more humid than most of western Europe) and winter (ferocious to anyone not used to it.)

[Candyman74]

The biggest things I find noticeable when I visit the US:

1. US flags everywhere.

2. Tipping.

3. Weird attitudes to alcohol - namely (a) high drinking age requirement;
(b) tendency to mix all sorts of different drinks up into weird cocktails and insisting "you gotta try this!"

[Candyman74]

Where do your friends live? It's common in London.

Yup, same here. People using their laptops in wi-fi hotspots is a pretty common site.

[calm kiwi]

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to explain to people (usually from the US) that a "Kiwi" is either a small flightless bird native to New Zealand, or a person from New Zealand, and that the fruit with the furry skin and green centre they're thinking of is a "Kiwifruit". It's really not a hard concept to grasp and I do wish the Agricultural Marketing Board would do something about correcting the misapprehension.


Well until the "it-will-never-take-on-because-it-already-has-a-name" Zespri campaign came along the Agricultural Marketing Board did just fine.

What I can't understand is how people are happy to use the term grapefruit and realise it is not the same thing as a grape, yet kiwifruit is somehow too hard!

[SciFiSam]

Not so weird for Americans. The UK choice of flavors may be odd in the US (and vice versa), but American crisps/potato chips come in dozens of flavors as well. Off the top of my head, at the local Wal-Mart I can pick up plain, salt and vinegar, malt vinegar, dill pickle, barbecue sauce (several varieties, ranging from spicy to sweet to smoky), sour cream and chive/onion, sour cream and cheddar, plain cheddar, barbecue cheddar, jalapeno, lime, pizza, chipotle, ketchup (spicy or regular), loaded baked potato, baby back rib, sweet corn, Mediterranean, steak, black pepper, potato skin, ranch dressing, guacamole, curry, cheeseburger, mustard... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, as Pringles crisps come in a mind-boggling array, and there are always seasonal or limited-edition flavors from Kerrs and Lays.

In addition, there are multiple varieties of chip/crisp texture-- "crisp" (processed potato substance, like Tato Skins, Pringles, Lays Stax, Munchos), baked chip, normal fried chip (in organic or regular forms), ripple chip, waffle chip, and kettle-fried chip.

Yes, I have an odd fascination with junk food.

I've only been to Florida, and saw about four varieties there - salted, sour cream and chive, chilli and barbecue sauce. Americans I know have commented on the variety of crisps here, but perhaps, as you say, that was actually about the different flavours rather than the number of flavours. We have the different textures too, and some are corn or wheat rather than potato. Of course, the main difference seems to be that our crisps nearly always come in 33g bags.

WTH are loaded baked potato flavour? Potato flavour seems a bit odd in a product usually made of potato, and baked potatoes can be loaded with all sorts of things.

Now I fancy sour cream Pringles. :(

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

I hate this with a passion. Its a kiwiFRUIT people. Please get it right!
Well around here (and I assume all of Canada and the US) the fruit is simply called "kiwi". But I am aware that a kiwi is also a bird (and a New Zealander, though I don't know how come they came to use this nickname to refer to themselves).

[Really Not All That Bright]

WTH are loaded baked potato flavour? Potato flavour seems a bit odd in a product usually made of potato, and baked potatoes can be loaded with all sorts of things.
The traditional "loaded" baked potato in the US usually has bacon bits, cheese, sour cream and chives.

[wolfman]

Things foreigners would find strange about the U.S. (At least the places I've had experience with):

- Maple Syrup (Seriously, the French at least don't get this particular food product)
^_^


Actually I would wager the large majority of Americans don't like maple syrup especially when you get out of the far northeast.. They like the Mrs. Butterworth's type. But when my house guests would try my Real Maple syrup, 90% of them had never had it before, and the same 90% thought it was way too strong and disgusting.It seems like something that you don't like if you didn't grow up with it as a kid.

[aruvqan]

The All Blacks.

Visitors to New Zealand always seem to be perplexed by the countries obsession with the All Blacks and rugby in general and it is a national obsession. I don't get it either but I'm part of a very small percentage of the NZ population who just can't be bothered with rugby.

I did meet a German last week who was beyond excited at the thought of seeing the haka at an All Blacks game though.

Other than Australians and the British, the rest of the world seems to believe that by calling ourselves Kiwis we are naming ourselves after fruit.

They are wrong

Did you send him to the haka page to see and learn the all black haka?

<rummages with google>

ha, found it (http://www.newzealand.com/travel/app_templates/haka/index_content.html)

[Student Driver]

I've only been to Florida, and saw about four varieties there - salted, sour cream and chive, chilli and barbecue sauce. Americans I know have commented on the variety of crisps here, but perhaps, as you say, that was actually about the different flavours rather than the number of flavours. We have the different textures too, and some are corn or wheat rather than potato. Of course, the main difference seems to be that our crisps nearly always come in 33g bags.

Oh, man, if we counted non-potato chips, I'd probably be online all day thinking of flavors readily available. Dozens of permutations of vaguely Mexican flavors for corn tortilla chips alone; different levels of "nacho cheesiness," different chile peppers, etc. Weirdest would probably the limited-edition Mountain Dew flavor Doritos-- sweet citrus-flavored salty corn chips. Bleah. (Or the Clamato clam-and-tomato flavor flour tortilla chips...)

Plain, sour cream & chive/onion, and barbecue are the traditional potato chip flavors in the US; if you go into small stores or convenience stores, you're not likely to see too many more (except in the Pringles displays where it's easier to stock a wider variety), unless it's a regional favorite, like lime in a Hispanic neighborhood. Also, you're not likely to see a great variety in snack-size/single-serving packages. I think I can understand the surprise, then, at the UK's abundance of flavors if they're all in those ready-to-snack packets.

[MrDibble]

So much just not true...
I lived for a while in South Africa in the 70s. They didn't know what a lot of our expressions meant.
[...] Twisted as a pretzel? - don't have pretzels.Yes we do.

Eat pizza with your hands? And buckets of chicken? - Like how the Bantu eat?
You must have hung out with racists, then. We eat pizza, KFC and fish&chips with our hands all the time, always have.Me, my white wife, the people in KFC's TV ads...
They were confused about our roads being numbered. At the time they only had one numbered road, M1 from Cape Town to Pretoria.That's N1 and no, we have had several numbered national roads (i.e. interstates) for decades, as well as local numbering systems. I can drag out a 70s vintage AA atlas and prove it.
They were appalled that we had stores open on Saturday afternoon and Sunday. They only allowed you to buy perishable vegetable and the daily paper, but not canned goods or weekly magazines, which had no good excuse to break the sabbath.Blue laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law) are not uniquely South African.

The didn't understand free radio and TV - they bought annual licensesA system we copied from the British...but radio doesn't need a licence, only TV.They were shocked (pun) by electrical outlets at shin level. All theirs were at waist level to keep children safe, but then they had killer 220 voltage.This is just bizarre. Our house was built in the 40s and had ankle-level outlets. But it depends where the house builder wants them - a lot of stuff on tables, you might want higher outlets.

[bengangmo]

Well around here (and I assume all of Canada and the US) the fruit is simply called "kiwi". But I am aware that a kiwi is also a bird (and a New Zealander, though I don't know how come they came to use this nickname to refer to themselves).

The Kiwi is a flightless bird unique and indigenous to New Zealand. That is why we refer to ourselves as Kiwis.

And to say "well that's what we call it" is frankly kinda offensive. If you don't know any better, then fine, we will politely correct you. If you have had it explained and can't be arsed to change then what?

is it ok for me to call an African American a nigger and respond with - well that's what we call them around here when called on it?

The Kiwifruit was largely "invented" in New Zealand, it was a unique fruit that came from "Kiwi" land. Hence the name of the fruit. But really - is it all that hard to get the name right?

Or are you too lazy to bother?

[Hello Again]

The Kiwifruit was largely "invented" in New Zealand, it was a unique fruit that came from "Kiwi" land. Hence the name of the fruit. But really - is it all that hard to get the name right?

Or are you too lazy to bother?

Hate to break it to you, but the kiwifruit is native to China, (it's actually the official fruit of the PRC) and is called a kiwifruit because it quite resembles the Kiwi bird. It did get the name from exporters based in New Zealand.

[Martini Enfield]

Hate to break it to you, but the kiwifruit is native to China, (it's actually the official fruit of the PRC) and is called a kiwifruit because it quite resembles the Kiwi bird. It did get the name from exporters based in New Zealand.

I think that's the point Bengangmo is making- the idea of calling it a "Kiwifruit" and not a "Chinese Gooseberry" was an innovation of NZ exporters, hence the popularity of the term- even though Kiwifruit are, indeed, originally from China. (And whoever was responsible for the "Zespri" renaming efforts should be summarily deported to the Chatham Islands and left there, IMHO).

And yes, it's been politely explained that the small fruit is a KiwiFRUIT, not a "Kiwi" (that refers to the bird or someone/something from NZ, and only those things), and we would appreciate it if the effort could be made not to refer to the fruit as a "Kiwi". Please update your notes accordingly.

[Broomstick]

Would you believe that this is the first time I've ever heard that calling the little fuzzy brown fruit with the green insides just a "kiwi" was offensive to New Zealanders? Seriously, I think 50% of it is that those of us in North America have no idea it's a problem for anyone.

That said, now that I've been informed, I'll try to change my habits.

[RickJay]

The Kiwi is a flightless bird unique and indigenous to New Zealand. That is why we refer to ourselves as Kiwis.

And to say "well that's what we call it" is frankly kinda offensive. If you don't know any better, then fine, we will politely correct you. If you have had it explained and can't be arsed to change then what?
The Canadian Oxford Dictionary lists the fruit as being called either a "kiwi" or a "kiwifruit," so either word is correct here.

Why are you so worked up about it? What difference does it make to you?

The Kiwifruit was largely "invented" in New Zealand, it was a unique fruit that came from "Kiwi" land.
Actually, it's originally from China. The world's largest producer is Italy. For a guy who accuses others of being too lazy to bother naming the fruit correctly, you don't know much about it.

[Apollyon]

Would you believe that this is the first time I've ever heard that calling the little fuzzy brown fruit with the green insides just a "kiwi" was offensive to New Zealanders?Well, this Kiwi just finds it rather amusing, and it barely registers on my offend-o-meter at all. :)

Add butter burgers.
and smelt frys. And what, if may I ask with some trepidation, are butter burgers and smelt frys?

[Apollyon]

The Kiwi is a flightless bird unique and indigenous to New Zealand. That is why we refer to ourselves as Kiwis.To add to what bengangmo wrote: specifically it's our national bird -- so calling ourselves Kiwi's is a bit like if USers called themselves "Eagles" I guess. (That said the US national bird isn't flightless, nocturnal, nearly blind, and hairy) :D

is it ok for me to call an African American a nigger and respond with - well that's what we call them around here when called on it? No it's not and I think you know that. I'm frankly quite surprised that you'd consider these even vaguely similar -- I certainly know I can't speak for all NZers in saying that kiwi/kiwifruit confusion is mostly amusing rather than offensive, but please understand that you don't speak for all of us in asserting that it's a big offensive deal. :rolleyes:

[Alessan]

Huh.

I thought you guys were named after the shoe polish.

[Martini Enfield]

No it's not and I think you know that. I'm frankly quite surprised that you'd consider these even vaguely similar -- I certainly know I can't speak for all NZers in saying that kiwi/kiwifruit confusion is mostly amusing rather than offensive, but please understand that you don't speak for all of us in asserting that it's a big offensive deal. :rolleyes:

I think it a better comparison would be calling a European New Zealander a "Pakeha" after being told the term is offensive to some people, FWIW. You can't just say "Well, that's what we call them" when told that's not the "correct" term.

I don't think anyone in NZ is offended by being compared to a small, tasty fruit- but it is both mildly amusing and irritating at the same time.

[Poor College Student]

From Arizona, USA:

Going fine dining in a tshirt, shorts, and sandals. What choice do we have?
Saying Hola and Como colloquially just like the illegals ;). I think this would seem stranger to other Americans than to people from, say, Europe.
Absolutely no places of entertainment (bars, movies, etc.) for MILES. I blame the mormons.

A few funny things from my foreign friends:
Germany: apparently "Why does a dog lick his balls?" is a common saying.
Russia: taking pride in being as ghetto as possible. lol. My friend boasted about getting the cheapest vodka and the dorkiest paper cups (I think they were ninja turtles) like other friends would brag about their new sound system.
Vietnam: We were all sharing what we knew on the piano, and the exchange student said he'd never touched one, but his sister was being taught it. He said it was a very feminine thing to learn piano.

[Broomstick]

And what, if may I ask with some trepidation, are butter burgers and smelt frys?
Even though I'm American, I'm not sure what a butter burger is myself.

Smelt frys, however - smelt are a type of small, fresh-water fish that school in massive numbers during the "smelt season", which is their spawning time. During such times, smelt fishermen dip nets into the water, (theoretically) catching massive numbers of fish at a time. After which you dress and fry them in massive numbers and eat them.

[Sigmagirl]

Butter burgers:
Photo and recipe!


http://www.roadfood.com/Recipes/Recipe.aspx?RecipeID=462

[Martini Enfield]

Smelt frys, however - smelt are a type of small, fresh-water fish that school in massive numbers during the "smelt season", which is their spawning time. During such times, smelt fishermen dip nets into the water, (theoretically) catching massive numbers of fish at a time. After which you dress and fry them in massive numbers and eat them.

That sounds very much like Whitebait (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitebait).

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Why are you so worked up about it? What difference does it make to you?


It's pretty obvious to me that kiwihumans are a very precise people and are not comfortable with non-kiwihuman people expecting each other to understand whether kiwihumans, kiwibirds, or kiwifruit are being discussed merely from context.

[An Gadaí]

Ireland: treating drinking water like molten gold. Every time I go there I dehydrate at some point. Ask for a drink of water nad you'll get what Americans used to call a "juice glass" a tiny four ounce serving of lukewarm water.

Corollary: I'm sure that to outsiders the American "Big Gulp" (and equivalent self-service mega sodas) must seem ridiculous. Especially since the 30 oz. cup has only about 8 oz of soda in it due to all the ice, which the American customer has added themselves, and actually shaken the cup to pack the ice more tightly before adding the token drizzle of soda.

Also Ireland: The utter terror, approaching phobia, that one's dog will be "spoiled" by people petting it, or otherwise acknowledging it's existence. Also the horror of actually feeding, washing, or allowing the dog into the house. I often wonder how Irish dogs know that they belong to a given owner at all. (Add on, speaking to the dog in English and the Cat in Gaeilge, though it makes sense in context.)

Corollary: Americans having the mobile grooming van come to their house to wash and style their dogs. Even people who themselves go to Hair Cuttery.

Having lived here for the entirety of my life I've never encountered any of the things you're talking about. Maybe they're rural things.

[Regallag_The_Axe]

Also the German thing about drafts (Es zieht!)... I think there was a thread on this being a wider central European thing too.

Could you expand upon this? I really have no idea what you're talking about.

[Really Not All That Bright]

There was a thread a little while ago about a mainland-European belief that draughty/drafty houses would cause colds and the like.

[aruvqan]

There was a thread a little while ago about a mainland-European belief that draughty/drafty houses would cause colds and the like.

which given that many of them also like to sleep with the windows slightly open in the bedroom in the winter is rather odd [hey, i admit i like to have the window cracked in the winter also, drives poor mrAru insane, he hates it]

[Leiko]

Not mentioned above, about the U.S.:
(Primarily from the perspective of Europeans)
--Musical theater


(I've deleted the portions of the quote I didn't address- this not a full quote.)

Musical theatre is weird to Europeans? What about London's West End (and the TV reality shows like "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Maria?") or the musicals of Boubil and Schoenberg (Les Miserables, Miss Saigon)? My theatre professors, one of whom is Roman, implied that opera is still a bigger deal in Europe than contemporary musical theatre (and the outrageously beautiful and strange sets they showed us would support that), but that's not to say that musical theatre is unknown.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Presumably it's news to Andrew Lloyd-Webber.

[Hedda Rosa]

One from England: Sweet popcorn in movie theaters. When to the movies while visiting London and was asked if I wanted my popcorn salty or sweet.

Blasphemy! Popcorn is meant to be served one way and one way only: drowned in butter and smothered in salt. It is just a butter-and-salt delivery system in fact.

[Lamia]

I think it a better comparison would be calling a European New Zealander a "Pakeha" after being told the term is offensive to some people, FWIW. You can't just say "Well, that's what we call them" when told that's not the "correct" term.That's a pretty bad comparison, because the fruit isn't offended by people calling it a "kiwi". If the word "kiwi" were some kind of ethnic slur against New Zealanders then I could understand objecting to it being used casually to refer to a kind of fruit, but since that's not the case I don't see what the problem is. There's a kind of German cookie they call the "Amerikaner" ("American"), and that doesn't bother me. It's not like the Germans think people from my country are actually cookies.

Like it or not, "kiwi" IS what we call that kind of fruit in North America. I don't think I've ever even heard anyone call it a "kiwifruit" in the US, although I've occasionally seen it written that way on signs in the grocery store. The use of "kiwi" to mean the fruit is included in both Merriam-Webster and the OED. The OED's earliest cite is 1972, so this isn't a recent fad. If people in New Zealand prefer to call it the "kiwifruit" then that's their business, but in the US and Canada there's nothing incorrect about calling it a "kiwi". It's just one of those funny little differences of dialect.

[Zhen'ka]

From Arizona, USA:

Going fine dining in a tshirt, shorts, and sandals. What choice do we have?
Saying Hola and Como colloquially just like the illegals ;). I think this would seem stranger to other Americans than to people from, say, Europe.
Absolutely no places of entertainment (bars, movies, etc.) for MILES. I blame the mormons.

A few funny things from my foreign friends:
Germany: apparently "Why does a dog lick his balls?" is a common saying.
Russia: taking pride in being as ghetto as possible. lol. My friend boasted about getting the cheapest vodka and the dorkiest paper cups (I think they were ninja turtles) like other friends would brag about their new sound system.
Vietnam: We were all sharing what we knew on the piano, and the exchange student said he'd never touched one, but his sister was being taught it. He said it was a very feminine thing to learn piano.

What part of Arizona are you from? Colorado City?

[bengangmo]

The Canadian Oxford Dictionary lists the fruit as being called either a "kiwi" or a "kiwifruit," so either word is correct here.

Why are you so worked up about it? What difference does it make to you?


Actually, it's originally from China. The world's largest producer is Italy. For a guy who accuses others of being too lazy to bother naming the fruit correctly, you don't know much about it.

1. So what? The CANADIAN dictionary calls it something...there have been three kiwis here that have told you its offensive - are they all talking out their arseholes?

2. Actually yeah I do know a bit about the history - why do you think I put "invented" in inverted commas? It was originally called a Chinese Gooseberry. There was some sort of hybidisation / cross (or whatever the correct term is) done and a renaming to a kiwifruit, in a fantastic marketing ploy. Note back in the 80's it was EXCLUSIVELY called a kwiwfruit. It was ONLY grown in New Zealand (there was a massive stink when some visiting horitcultural scientists tried to steal some seedlings or some such). Then TPTB in their infinite wisdom decided to sell the rights or whatever and it just proliferated everywhere and we got lazy arsed people starting to call it a kiwi because they didn't know any better and were to damn lazy or busy to say the full word.

[bengangmo]

Huh.

I thought you guys were named after the shoe polish.

:D:D:D

Dude - you have a wicked sense of humour

[Really Not All That Bright]

Can we just agree that kiwifruit are delicious? Possibly kiwis too, but I don't have one handy to lick.

[bengangmo]

I

I don't think anyone in NZ is offended by being compared to a small, tasty fruit- but it is both mildly amusing and irritating at the same time.

Sorry for the multi posts...

Thanks Mr Enfield, yes its annoying but not offensive by itself. What is offensive is being called on it and then getting the response - "I don't care - that's what we call it around here"

[Lamia]

Thanks Mr Enfield, yes its annoying but not offensive by itself. What is offensive is being called on it and then getting the response - "I don't care - that's what we call it around here"How do you feel about Americans "correcting" you because you don't use exactly the same words or the same spellings as we do for everything?

[Tom Tildrum]

There's a certain subtlety in saying "We took our nickname from a small brown hairy bird, so it bothers us when you use that name for a small brown hairy fruit," that may be difficult for outsiders to appreciate. :)

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

How about US Football? The ball only occationally is kicked with the feet. What the rest of the world thinks of as football is soccer.

Ahem, rest of the world except Australia. And Japan. :)

[RickJay]

1. So what? The CANADIAN dictionary calls it something...there have been three kiwis here that have told you its offensive - are they all talking out their arseholes?
You say it's offensive. Others from your neck of the woods seem to disagree.

What a person calls another person can be offensive. What a person calls a goddamned plant isn't.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Sorry for the multi posts...

Thanks Mr Enfield, yes its annoying but not offensive by itself. What is offensive is being called on it and then getting the response - "I don't care - that's what we call it around here"

I guess it also depends on how much experience you have with something. I'm a foreigner living in Japan, AKA gaijin (foreign person). However, that word will never be used in a media publication, only the more "correct" gaikokujin (foreign-country person) gets printed/said. There are some (but not many) gaijin who are offended by the use of that term. If I encountered one of those people, I would make it a point to not call them a gaijin. However, I would never dream of changing how I use the term in general because some people are offended by it.

That's because I have experience with the general sentiment of how the term is viewed, and know that it's not offensive to most, and not offensive to me.


ETA: Also, what about the case where the term mulatto is offensive in the US but not in... um, I can't remember-- South America, or the Caribbean perhaps? Isn't that a case of "Well, that's what we say around here."

[bengangmo]

You say it's offensive. Others from your neck of the woods seem to disagree.

What a person calls another person can be offensive. What a person calls a goddamned plant isn't.

Er no. Have said its annoying - it crosses into offensive when explained how wrong it is and you can't be bothered to change.

And it is wrong.

[bengangmo]

[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed;11292537]I guess it also depends on how much experience you have with something. I'm a foreigner living in Japan, AKA gaijin (foreign person). However, that word will never be used in a media publication, only the more "correct" gaikokujin (foreign-country person) gets printed/said. There are some (but not many) gaijin who are offended by the use of that term. If I encountered one of those people, I would make it a point to not call them a gaijin. However, I would never dream of changing how I use the term in general because some people are offended by it.

QUOTE]

I am a caucasian (I don't like the term and don't identify that way) living in Singapore - aka an "ang moh". Its not exactly a polite term, but not really a perjporative either but meh - I don't care too much about it. People often refer to me as "the angmoh" (hence the username)

For those that can translate my wife alternately refers to me as "chou ang moh" and "sai quai loh" (yeah she's Cantonese)

[Jennyrosity]

What seems to puzzle most non-British people is that drinking is our national sport, that very few, if any, social events go ahead without alcohol, and that most of us think that's normal. From what I've seen on these boards, your average Brit's average weekend drinking would be regarded as borderline alcoholism by most Americans, and at least rather undesirable behaviour by other nationalities.

That, and most "traditional" British dishes, especially our willingness to eat offal.

[bengangmo]

What seems to puzzle most non-British people is that drinking is our national sport, that very few, if any, social events go ahead without alcohol, and that most of us think that's normal. From what I've seen on these boards, your average Brit's average weekend drinking would be regarded as borderline alcoholism by most Americans, and at least rather undesirable behaviour by other nationalities.

That, and most "traditional" British dishes, especially our willingness to eat offal.

Then what would an American think of a New Zealander or an Australian?

[Nicolas Bourbaki]

Butter burgers:
Photo and recipe!

What the fuck, Wisconsin. What the fuck.

Mississippi does this too, though; I had a grilled cheese sandwich there and it was like it only existed as a butter delivery device. The bread was, without hyperbole, soaked clean through, both slices. It was practically translucent.

As for what's weird about California? I guess for someone from anywhere but Amsterdam, it'd be our drug laws. You got the right card in your wallet, you can go into an ordinary store with a clear and unambiguous sign, and buy some weed.

[Isamu]

That's because I have experience with the general sentiment of how the term is viewed, and know that it's not offensive to most, and not offensive to me.


I suspect that you are either female or over 40 years old, no? You have a different experience than others, that is all.

Edit - I realized after posting that what I wrote sounds horrible, but, really, that's the way things work here. Women foreigners, or older foreigners, get a lot less in-your-face rudeness directed at them.

[aruvqan]

You say it's offensive. Others from your neck of the woods seem to disagree.

What a person calls another person can be offensive. What a person calls a goddamned plant isn't.

<though I do know a kiwi fruit, met him at the gay pride parade in Hartford a few years back. Nice guy>

[calm kiwi]

The Canadian Oxford Dictionary lists the fruit as being called either a "kiwi" or a "kiwifruit," so either word is correct here.

Why are you so worked up about it? What difference does it make to you?


Actually, it's originally from China. The world's largest producer is Italy. For a guy who accuses others of being too lazy to bother naming the fruit correctly, you don't know much about it.

I'm pretty sure most New Zealanders know where kiwifruit came from originaly. We also know that New Zealand named, marketed and transformed the chinese gooseberry into the kiwifruit. The only reason Italy is the largest producer is because, while in the middle of a bonanza, New Zealand sold our hybrids (biggest national mistake EVER).

What difference does it make to us? A SHITLOAD! For all you who merrily call the fruit a kiwi it may seem insignifigant but to us it means a lot.

WE are Kiwi's not kiwifruit but Kiwi's. Our National symbol is a Kiwi not a kiwifruit. When you meet a NZer anywhere in the world they will tell you they are a Kiwi as often as they will tell you they are a New Zealander.

It makes a difference because it is how we identify ourselves.

What we can't understand is why you can't use the real name for the fruit...do you have a problem between grapes and grapefruit?

[calm kiwi]

There's a certain subtlety in saying "We took our nickname from a small brown hairy bird, so it bothers us when you use that name for a small brown hairy fruit," that may be difficult for outsiders to appreciate. :)

What is subtle about saying "STOP CALLING THE FRUIT KIWI!"

[calm kiwi]

What seems to puzzle most non-British people is that drinking is our national sport, that very few, if any, social events go ahead without alcohol, and that most of us think that's normal. From what I've seen on these boards, your average Brit's average weekend drinking would be regarded as borderline alcoholism by most Americans, and at least rather undesirable behaviour by other nationalities.

That, and most "traditional" British dishes, especially our willingness to eat offal.

I don't love offal but the British drinking anscestory is living strong in the Antipodes.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

What we can't understand is why you can't use the real name for the fruit...do you have a problem between grapes and grapefruit?

Kiwifruit, Kiwibirds and Kiwihumans are extremely easy to differentiate in context. If I asked a friend to put grapes in the fruit salad I'd have no reasonable basis to expect her to know that I really meant grapefruit but couldn`t bother to say "fruit".

If I asked her to put some sliced kiwi in a fruit salad and she cut up a brown bird or god forbid a new zealander, she'd be totally insane.

If I learned that, in New Zealand, Kiwihumans enjoyed eating a fruit they called "passion", I admit I would be surprised and amused that they decided to call the fruit "passion" when I call it "passion fruit".

But I wouldn`t be offended, because it's extremely similar and pretty easy to see why the word fruit got dropped. People do things differently in different parts of the world.

[calm kiwi]

Excellent! I will no longer feel any guilt in calling Americans Yanks.

[calm kiwi]

Kiwifruit, Kiwibirds and Kiwihumans

How often do American's come in contact with a Kiwi (bird) or a Kiwi (person). Surely getting one name right can't be that onerous.

[calm kiwi]

We happily use the names grapefruit, passionfruit and ODDLY kiwifruit.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

How often do American's come in contact with a Kiwi (bird) or a Kiwi (person). Surely getting one name right can't be that onerous.

If I often interacted with kiwibirds and kiwihumans I might be more inclined to differentiate, lest context clues someday prove insufficient. Maybe that's why kiwihumans say kiwifruit and yanks say kiwi?

Please don`t ever feel guilty for calling us yanks. I think I speak for all of us when I say we find it endearing.

[Ludovic]

Please don`t ever feel guilty for calling us yanks.

Seconded. Although, for those who use it, "seppo" is right out.

[StaudtCJ]

I must say, I don't mind a foreigner calling me a Yank, but them's fightin' words coming from one of them there unionists (otherwise known as "D*** Yankees", or Yanks for short). The War Between the States is not forgotten. :p

[calm kiwi]

If I often interacted with kiwibirds and kiwihumans I might be more inclined to differentiate, lest context clues someday prove insufficient. Maybe that's why kiwihumans say kiwifruit and yanks say kiwi?

Please don`t ever feel guilty for calling us yanks.
I think I speak for all of us when I say we find it endearing.

Please don't ever hold the delusion that calling you a Yank was endearing. It does rhyme though! :)

[HeyHomie]

We were just talking about this the other day - I met a guy (mid 20s) who works at a preschool and he said he was totally freaked out when they asked him to help bathe the kids.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. Korean pre-schools have showers and/or baths, and the kids are expected to bathe in them? :confused:

[Lamia]

What we can't understand is why you can't use the real name for the fruit...do you have a problem between grapes and grapefruit?I don't understand why foreigners insist upon calling this kind of thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rich_tea.jpg) a biscuit when it's obviously some kind of cookie. It bears little resemblance to an actual biscuit, which looks like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Runny_hunny.jpg). And don't even get me started on this "tuna mayonnaise" nonsense, or the whole "jelly"/"jam" issue. It would be so much easier if everyone would just use the real names for things, like we do in America.

[Cat Whisperer]

While we're on the subject of what people call things, what the rest of the world calls Canadian bacon is not Canadian bacon. Canadian bacon is just like US American bacon. What you all are calling Canadian bacon is back bacon or ham. If you order bacon in a Canadian restaurant, you will get what US Americans traditionally know as bacon. If you order Canadian bacon, the waitress will look at you funny.

This is what Canadians call bacon. (http://blogchef.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/crispy_bacon_1.jpg)

This is what everyone else in the world calls Canadian bacon. (http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/canadianbacon.jpg)

[Spectralist]

What we can't understand is why you can't use the real name for the fruit...do you have a problem between grapes and grapefruit?

We use the real name for the fruit. The real name for the fruit is, in Canada, simply "kiwi".

It's not wrong it's just different then what you call it. Demanding we change the name to kiwifruit would be like me going to the states and demanding they spell colour with a "u". We have different dialects. That doesn't make one correct and one incorrect.

[awldune]

--U.S. currency: ... coins have no numbers on them to show their value


I don't know how I never noticed this, but it's pretty strange. Especially the dime, which says ONE DIME instead of TEN CENTS and doesn't have a 10 anywhere on it.

[awldune]

We use the real name for the fruit. The real name for the fruit is, in Canada, simply "kiwi".

I have to agree here. I am from the US and had never heard "kiwifruit" before. If you go to the market and buy the fruit, the sticker on it says "KIWI."

If this is such a big deal to New Zealanders, then they should lobby the fruit companies to label the fruit using their preferred name.

[aruvqan]

Excellent! I will no longer feel any guilt in calling Americans Yanks.

why should you feel guilty about calling me a yank? I am an american living in new england region and by definition a yankee ... and by other countrys standards i am what would traditionally be called a yank.

[Really Not All That Bright]

This is what everyone else in the world calls Canadian bacon. (http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/canadianbacon.jpg)
Not quite everyone. Just Americans, I think. I certainly didn't know of any such thing as "Canadian bacon" - at least, not in any greater sense than "bacon from Canada" - when I was in England.

[Sitnam]

One from England: Sweet popcorn in movie theaters. When to the movies while visiting London and was asked if I wanted my popcorn salty or sweet.

Blasphemy! Popcorn is meant to be served one way and one way only: drowned in butter and smothered in salt. It is just a butter-and-salt delivery system in fact.
Exactly, the few times I actually got popcorn in English theaters my salty popcorn was ruined because every 5th bite or so I'd get a few sugary bites. The taste was so off putting I just wouldn't risk it anymore and gave up.

And whats with the crap they put on pizza? Sprouts, really?

And eating boiled chicken cold?!?!?

[manx]

Would you believe that this is the first time I've ever heard that calling the little fuzzy brown fruit with the green insides just a "kiwi" was offensive to New Zealanders? Seriously, I think 50% of it is that those of us in North America have no idea it's a problem for anyone.
That said, now that I've been informed, I'll try to change my habits.

Eh, it doesn't both me (Kiwi in living London) in the slightest. It's not offensive, it's just, well, it's on the list of Things Other People Get Wrong Sometimes, Because We Are Not Actually A Very Big Country, along with the 'no, we really do have airports' and 'no, there is no bridge between Auckland and Sydney*'. It's not really worth shouting about.

And now I'm trying to think of strange things we do, and the only thing I can come up with is... I don't know, actually. Trend towards hypersensitivity?

We have a different benchmark for what constitutes 'crowded'. I went back home in late January, and, on returning to London, was showing my girlfriend some of my photos, in particular of the couple of days my friends and I had spent at the beach. (Piha and Bethells). She was struck by how empty the beaches were, and I had been annoyed by how crowded they were.
Me: Look at all the other people in the photo!
Her: What, all ten of them. In all that long beach?
Me: YES! God, it wasn't even a weekend!
Her: :dubious: you people are strange.

Other things... I got nothing. Little help, guys?

*There is, however, a tunnel

[Lamia]

To answer the OP, I used to live in Japan, and here are a few things the Japanese found strange about American culture. Some of these apply more broadly to other Western cultures, some are specifically American.

*Private handgun ownership. Firearms are very strictly controlled in Japan, and while it is possible to get a license for hunting rifles I don't believe there's any way for a private citizen to legally own a handgun. Most Japanese can't understand why it's so easy for Americans to legally obtain handguns, or why they would want them in the first place. (I frequently had to confess I did not really understand this myself.)

*Single women living on their own rather than with their parents. This certainly isn't unheard of in Japan, but it's not especially common. One woman asked me if American women really all had their own apartments "like on Sex & The City". (Probably my favorite "Ah, yes and no..." question.)

*High school students typically going to whatever public high school is closest to their home rather than having to apply and earn admission to a particular school.

*Social events that involve partner dancing, like school dances or dancing at weddings. People see these things in Hollywood movies, but they're pretty rare in Japan. As far as I could tell there was no such thing as a school dance at all. I've known Japanese college students in the US who expressed excitement or nervousness about attending their very first dance.

*Putting butter and salt on rice. Disgusting!

*Putting sugar in green tea. Disgusting!

*Root beer. Disgusting! It tastes like medicine! (I wish I had medicine that tasted like root beer, I love root beer.)

*Brightly, artificially colored foods like breakfast cereal or cake icing. Not really disgusting, just weird and unsettling. (I was rather unsettled to discover that, in Japan, Froot Loops aren't brightly colored.)

*Not taking off shoes inside the house. Disgusting and unhygienic!

*Different age requirements for drinking and smoking. Why not just have it be the same age for both?

*Different laws in different US states. One of my students observed that in some ways different states in the US are like different countries.

[Ximenean]

Exactly, the few times I actually got popcorn in English theaters my salty popcorn was ruined because every 5th bite or so I'd get a few sugary bites. The taste was so off putting I just wouldn't risk it anymore and gave up.

And whats with the crap they put on pizza? Sprouts, really?

And eating boiled chicken cold?!?!?
Freshly made popcorn in UK cinemas is just a half-arsed import from the US that arrived with multiplexes. I don't think we were exactly sure what it was supposed to taste like. Before that, "popcorn" meant those horrible bags of caramel-flavoured Butterkist, shelf life approximately 25 years.

Sprouts on pizza and "boiled chicken" sound like something out of a Bill Hicks routine, I'm not sure if you're being serious.

[bengangmo]

We use the real name for the fruit. The real name for the fruit is, in Canada, simply "kiwi".

It's not wrong it's just different then what you call it. Demanding we change the name to kiwifruit would be like me going to the states and demanding they spell colour with a "u". We have different dialects. That doesn't make one correct and one incorrect.

NO the real name for the fruit is a Kiwifruit...you call it a Kiwi out of ignorance.

[Martini Enfield]

NO the real name for the fruit is a Kiwifruit...you call it a Kiwi out of ignorance.

Agreed; this isn't about spelling- it's about applying the correct name to a product; especially when the "incorrect" name has recognised meanings that aren't a fruit.

Ultimately, it's not a big deal. But please, remember, it's a Kiwifruit, being a fruit that is from New Zealand (home of the Kiwi). :)

Kiwifruit also come from a number of different places, of course- so it's quite possible the ones with "Kiwi" stickers on them are locally grown in the US or in Europe where they don't know any better.

[bengangmo]

Just a quick (and polite) thought...

for all those that like to eat Kiwis, I got something here *grabs crotch* that you're quite welcome to gobble..

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I suspect that you are either female or over 40 years old, no? You have a different experience than others, that is all.

Edit - I realized after posting that what I wrote sounds horrible, but, really, that's the way things work here. Women foreigners, or older foreigners, get a lot less in-your-face rudeness directed at them.

However it might sound, it's wrong on both counts.

You're offended by "gaijin?" Not a single foreigner I know here personally (yeah, anecdote /= data, but if there were even one person it would change my perception) is offended by that term. Or at least by that term alone. It's all in how you use it, I suppose. If some old dude at an izakaya looks at me and barks "Gaikokujin dame!" as I walk in, I'm going to be a lot more offended than if my Japanese friends talk about gaijin issues.

I dunno, maybe Aomori is just a lot more friendly than where you live, but I don't get a lot of overt anger/rudeness up here.

[Isamu]

However it might sound, it's wrong on both counts.

You're offended by "gaijin?" Not a single foreigner I know here personally (yeah, anecdote /= data, but if there were even one person it would change my perception) is offended by that term. Or at least by that term alone. It's all in how you use it, I suppose. If some old dude at an izakaya looks at me and barks "Gaikokujin dame!" as I walk in, I'm going to be a lot more offended than if my Japanese friends talk about gaijin issues.

I dunno, maybe Aomori is just a lot more friendly than where you live, but I don't get a lot of overt anger/rudeness up here.

I've been here since I was 27. I'm now almost 40 so I've seen some changes. Language is a funny thing though, and if you check wikipedia "gaijin", you'll see that there are people who think it's not a neutral term.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

NO the real name for the fruit is a Kiwifruit...you call it a Kiwi out of ignorance.

Agreed; this isn't about spelling- it's about applying the correct name to a product; especially when the "incorrect" name has recognised meanings that aren't a fruit.

Both people and birds from NZ are called kiwi. Why can't a fruit also hold that title? Is it just a question of "we named it first, you have to call it that?" Kiwi has become a word in the states to refer to a fruit. Are you going to go the the Dominican Republic (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10383744&postcount=90) and tell people that in the US "mulatto" is offensive and thus the entire country has to stop using it? You can say that in NZ, it's offensive and that people shouldn't use it there, but to try to shut down its use worldwide ignores how language evolves.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I've been here since I was 27. I'm now almost 40 so I've seen some changes. Language is a funny thing though, and if you check wikipedia "gaijin", you'll see that there are people who think it's not a neutral term.

I didn't say that there weren't those people, and your 13 years here has certainly given you more experience than my 2. I just got the impression that for the majority of foreigners it wasn't all that offensive. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe it divides along the lines of people who had to endure more racism in the past compared to now (Japan is progressing, slowly :) [I know you know, but for those playing along at home: seatbelts must be worn in the backseats of cars? 2008, check. Tobacco machines now regulated by ID swipe cards? 2008, check. Fire detectors must be installed in houses? 2008, check.]). Maybe it's comparable to "whazzup ma nigga" and "fuck you nigger."

On a side note, is there anything funnier than "gaijin-san?" :D

[bengangmo]

Both people and birds from NZ are called kiwi. Why can't a fruit also hold that title? Is it just a question of "we named it first, you have to call it that?" Kiwi has become a word in the states to refer to a fruit. Are you going to go the the Dominican Republic (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10383744&postcount=90) and tell people that in the US "mulatto" is offensive and thus the entire country has to stop using it? You can say that in NZ, it's offensive and that people shouldn't use it there, but to try to shut down its use worldwide ignores how language evolves.

Why is it such a big deal to you to call it a kiwi? There are responses here that calling the little furry thing a "kiwi" range from being mildly amused at your ignorance to resigned annoyance - why can't you call it by the name that was coined after the hybridisation was done?

After all, the bird and the people had claim to the word long before the fruit was marketed.

I'm not going to address Mulatto, because I know nothing about the origins of the word, the people or the culture.

As to language evolving - yes it does, but not always for the better. When did the word "nigger" make its way into the American lexicon - was that a good change?

What about phrases like Dutch Courage, going Dutch, Indian Giver? I understand that these are all, at the least culturally insensitive if not outright offensive. Is it ok that I use them anyway on the basis that "language evolves and "it's what we call it"?

As mentioned already, the use of "kiwi" for the fruit is so widespread that we aren't exactly going to be ranting and raving everytime we see it. But once the difference has been explained to you, couldn't you at least have the manners and "good breeding" to use what is considered the correct term?

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

As to language evolving - yes it does, but not always for the better. When did the word "nigger" make its way into the American lexicon - was that a good change?

What about phrases like Dutch Courage, going Dutch, Indian Giver? I understand that these are all, at the least culturally insensitive if not outright offensive. Is it ok that I use them anyway on the basis that "language evolves and "it's what we call it"?

As mentioned already, the use of "kiwi" for the fruit is so widespread that we aren't exactly going to be ranting and raving everytime we see it. But once the difference has been explained to you, couldn't you at least have the manners and "good breeding" to use what is considered the correct term?

Maybe because it's referring to something neutral, ie a fruit. Dutch courage implies that the Dutch are drunks. Indian giver indicates that the Indians make bad deals. I use "going Dutch" because I didn't realize that had a negative connotation. A fruit is just a fruit. Maybe if you can show me that it denegrates the NZ people at all I might take your objection more seriously.

[Ludovic]

On a side note, is there anything funnier than "gaijin-san?" :D

I know next to nothing about Japan and that's funny even for me.

[bengangmo]

Maybe because it's referring to something neutral, ie a fruit. Dutch courage implies that the Dutch are drunks. Indian giver indicates that the Indians make bad deals. I use "going Dutch" because I didn't realize that had a negative connotation. A fruit is just a fruit. Maybe if you can show me that it denegrates the NZ people at all I might take your objection more seriously.

It's annoying because we identify ourselves (by and large) as Kiwis. Kiwis are people. Fruit are not people.

Somebody might say - "wow, Kiwis were cheap in the supermarket today"
So wow - now they are selling my compatriots from the local store? That's not in the least annoying?

And BTW - a fruit is "neutral" as you put it, but a people are not. What if I started calling molerats "Americans" - that wouldn't be the least annoying to, ya know actual Americans?

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

Not mentioned above, about the U.S.:

(Primarily from the perspective of Europeans)

<snip>

--High rate of homelessness (particularly in urban areas)

<snip>


I've been to much of the US, and I have never seen homelessness like I did in Budapest.

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

NO the real name for the fruit is a Kiwifruit...you call it a Kiwi out of ignorance.

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in the USA and in Canada, "kiwi" may refer to the fruit. Get over it.

[RickJay]

NO the real name for the fruit is a Kiwifruit...you call it a Kiwi out of ignorance.
Your version of English is not the single authoritative version. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It makes a difference because it is how we identify ourselves.
But you're not complaining about that. You're complaining about what people call a damned FRUIT. I will be sure not to call people from New Zealand "kiwifruit."

The word here for the fruit is "kiwi." It's not wrong. It's Canadian English, the same way we say "tuna" when a lot of Americans say "tuna fish," or we say "sweater" when Britons say "jumper." We have lots of words that are different from the ones you use. That's the way English works. If you want to call a hockey puck an "icedisk" it's not going to bother me.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I've been to much of the US, and I have never seen homelessness like I did in Budapest.
There were far more homeless people in London and Birmingham than I've seen in New York City or Atlanta, for that matter.

[bengangmo]

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in the USA and in Canada, "kiwi" may refer to the fruit. Get over it.

Yeah? Well that's about as appropriate as me saying

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we refer to Americans as smegma. Get over it

Or maybe

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we call all Arabs"terrorist" - get over it.

Look. its really not that big of a deal. We are not going go railing through the streets or anything like that to make a change. We, and be we I mean the vast majority of New Zealanders (I think this is a pretty safe assumption given the sampling on the board so far) don't like the fruit to be called a kiwi. Is that not reason enough for a change?

Calling the little furry fruit a Kiwi is not perjorative in and of itself. However once you are informed that the "people" (yeah I know, we are not a race per se) who identify as "Kiwis" don't like it I would have thought that good manners would mandate a change in your behaviour.

[Hello Again]

Yeah? Well that's about as appropriate as me saying

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we refer to Americans as smegma.
The English slang term "seppos" for Americans has mildly insulting origin (Yanks - Septic tanks) so what? I figure when they burned our capital to the ground they earned the right to permanently treat Americans as a collective annoying younger brother. :D

I'm amazed that you liken the addition or subtraction of the word "fruit" as an insult comparable to describing others as smelly objectionable bodily secretions. To each their own, I suppose.

[Really Not All That Bright]

The English slang term "seppos" for Americans has mildly insulting origin (Yanks - Septic tanks) so what? I figure when they burned our capital to the ground they earned the right to permanently treat Americans as a collective annoying younger brother. :D
Rhyming slang doesn't really work that way - a phone is a dog n' bone, and not because a phone is in any way like a dog with a bone, but because it rhymes.

[Hello Again]

Rhyming slang doesn't really work that way - a phone is a dog n' bone, and not because a phone is in any way like a dog with a bone, but because it rhymes.
Hence mildly insulting. Although it does not really signify anything, it is not the most alluring word combo. :)

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Rhyming slang doesn't really work that way - a phone is a dog n' bone, and not because a phone is in any way like a dog with a bone, but because it rhymes.

Come on, you can't really expect that the person who chose "septic tank" wasn't thinking that it had no kind of negative connotation at all. Yank also rhymes with "please and thanks," but Americans aren't called "pleasers."

[Really Not All That Bright]

Come on, you can't really expect that the person who chose "septic tank" wasn't thinking that it had any kind of negative connotation at all. Yank also rhymes with "please and thanks," but Americans aren't called "pleasers."
Sure I can. Seppo/septic isn't the only rhyming slang for Americans/Yanks. There's also Sherman (Sherman tank, Yank).

[The Lurker Above]

Yeah? Well that's about as appropriate as me saying

You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we refer to Americans as smegma. Get over it


I think, perhaps, you may be getting slightly overworked over what name we in Canada/US use for a fruit. And expecting an entire country to switch from call in it kiwi to kiwifruit just to be polite to you is a bit much, even if we all really were Dudly Do-Rights.

And reading your posts in this thread doesn't exactly fill me with the desire to be polite to you.

[Whammo]

And BTW - a fruit is "neutral" as you put it, but a people are not. What if I started calling molerats "Americans" - that wouldn't be the least annoying to, ya know actual Americans?


I hate moleratfruit.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Sure I can. Seppo/septic isn't the only rhyming slang for Americans/Yanks. There's also Sherman (Sherman tank, Yank).

So because there's another name for it, septic isn't negative?

[MichaelQReilly]

This thread really calls for a Flight of the Concords episode.

[Soul Brother Number Two]

This bengangmo/kiwifruit thing is killing me!

As an aside, many people in the restaurant business refer to kiwis as 'gorilla nuts.'

[Bosstone]

So hey, guys, it turns out that all those times I ordered Chinese, it turned out I really was eating General Tso.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

ki⋅wi
  /ˈkiwi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kee-wee] Show IPA
Use kiwi in a Sentence
–noun, plural -wis.
1. any of several flightless, ratite birds of the genus Apteryx, of New Zealand, allied to the extinct moas.
2. Also called Chinese gooseberry. the egg-sized, edible berry of the Chinese gooseberry, having fuzzy brownish skin and slightly tart green flesh.

Now I want to buy some kiwis just to use the word kiwis.

[2ply]

I went to school with a man from Australia. He told me that in New Zealand, sexual relations between humans and sheep were not only legal, but incredibly common. The way he described it, you'd think every single person in New Zealand was having relations with a sheep. They're very nice looking animals, I admit, but I think most foreigners traveling to New Zealand would be shocked at this practice.

[Martini Enfield]

Now I want to buy some kiwis just to use the word kiwis.

If we're going to play that game, then Wikipedia describes a Kiwi primarily as the bird, and the fruit as "Kiwifruit", with a mention that "Kiwi" is a "colloquial" name in some countries.

Also, the whole "Seppo" thing doesn't really compare- almost no-one actually uses the term, and if an American said "Please don't use that term", you'd have to be a gigantic wanker to continue to do so after that point.

The point being made is quite simple: The "colloquial" name in the US for the green-centred fruit is incorrectly applied. You can jump up and down and insist that "that's what we call them", but it doesn't make you correct, just toeing the party line wherever you are.

This really isn't as big a deal as it's being made out to be... at this rate it's going to end up there with "Tipping" and "Shoes on or off in the house" as Subjects Which Cannot Be Discussed Civilly On These Boards, and I don't think anyone wants that.
I went to school with a man from Australia. He told me that in New Zealand, sexual relations between humans and sheep were not only legal, but incredibly common. The way he described it, you'd think every single person in New Zealand was having relations with a sheep. They're very nice looking animals, I admit, but I think most foreigners traveling to New Zealand would be shocked at this practice.

Assuming we're not being whooshed, the person who told you that is full of shit and was pulling your leg. So, either way, someone's been whooshed here...

Incidentally, the whole "Sex with sheep" thing is offensive to NZers, unless the person making said joke is from Australia (and only Australia) or is a Kiwi ex-pat.

[bengangmo]

Now if we are going to go the sex with sheep route though - I should probably point out that the legal definition of bigamy in Australia includes someone who owns two sheep. :)

ETA - I just realised the sheep thing was an attempted whoosh - you wouldn't find an Australian at school :)

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

The Kiwi is a flightless bird unique and indigenous to New Zealand. That is why we refer to ourselves as Kiwis.
Yes, as I've said I do know that the kiwi is a bird native to New Zealand. What I don't know is how the term came to be applied to New Zealanders. You named yourselves after a bird?

As for the kiwi/kiwifruit debate, others have already said what I think, but I will mention that around here the fruit is also simply called "kiwi" in French, and looking in my Larousse dictionary it appears to be the only term for it. There is no "kiwifruit" in this dictionary, nor is there a "groseille chinoise" (French for "Chinese gooseberry"). So New Zealanders, I'm very sorry, but this is a battle you've lost if you really did care about it in the first place. Find some comfort in the fact that everywhere in the world people refer to a very common and tasty fruit using the name you use for yourselves. (Honestly this is something I'd personally really appreciate, and given that you've named yourselves after a bird in the first place, I don't think the claim that it somehow taints the word will get very far.)

[Martini Enfield]

Yes, as I've said I do know that the kiwi is a bird native to New Zealand. What I don't know is how the term came to be applied to New Zealanders. You named yourselves after a bird?

Well, actually, the country is named after the Zeeland province in Holland (The chap who discovered NZ, Abel Tasman, was Dutch).

But since when do much national nicknames make much sense? I mean, what's a "Canuck" or a "Yank" when you think about it?

[bengangmo]

Yes, as I've said I do know that the kiwi is a bird native to New Zealand. What I don't know is how the term came to be applied to New Zealanders. You named yourselves after a bird?

As for the kiwi/kiwifruit debate, others have already said what I think, but I will mention that around here the fruit is also simply called "kiwi" in French, and looking in my Larousse dictionary it appears to be the only term for it. There is no "kiwifruit" in this dictionary, nor is there a "groseille chinoise" (French for "Chinese gooseberry"). So New Zealanders, I'm very sorry, but this is a battle you've lost if you really did care about it in the first place. Find some comfort in the fact that everywhere in the world people refer to a very common and tasty fruit using the name you use for yourselves. (Honestly this is something I'd personally really appreciate, and given that you've named yourselves after a bird in the first place, I don't think the claim that it somehow taints the word will get very far.)

Hmm...yes we do care. I could not give you a dissertation how we came to refer to ourselves as "Kiwis" we just do. The kiwi is something that is very unique to New Zealand - so much so that when we were considering a new flag, one was mooted with kiwi on a plain coloured back ground. We were referring to ourselves as Kiwis before the fruit was marketed (in fact that's why the name Kiwifruit was chosen - because it was suggestive of New Zealand)

I hope that we are not fighting a totally losing battle.

And it is in now way a compliment to have somebody calling a fruit after our national symbol. It is not something to be pleased about.

How do you think an Italian would feel if we started calling pizzas "Italys" or a French citizen would feel if we started calling a bagel "French" (and yes many places will market stuff like Italian Pizza or French Loaf)

Why does it sully the word? Hmm...I guess that's partly emotional - I don't like to hear about people "eating" my national symbol, not do I like to hear about a protected species being on sale at the supermarket.

I don't like to see kiwi juice when I visit the smoothy shop - I feel like asking where they got my blood from or whether the "juice" was squeezed from a live or dead kiwi.

When the chinese gooseberry was launched on the market (back in the 60's) it was called a kiwifruit. Although the variety launched was one that had been hybridised in New Zealand, chinese goosberry was one name that was considered.

That (some) people have taken it upon themselves to shorten the name in the interests of I don't know what (economy? ease of use?) doesn't particularly make it more palatable to people.

I would hazard a guess that if a survey were done in New Zealand right now, you would get a very strong majority that would object to a Kiwifruit being called simply a kiwi. That we, as a nation, the same people that brought the kiwifruit to world attention and marketed it, that have the kiwi as a national symbol and that willingly call outselves kiwis, object to the moniker you are using not enough to try and fight this foolish phenomenon (sp?).

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

And it is in now way a compliment to have somebody calling a fruit after our national symbol. It is not something to be pleased about.

Hm, perhaps Japan should be offended rather than proud of their Fuji apples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_apple)?

Although I suppose to be fair, the apples aren't named after Japan's national symbol; they just happen to share the same name.

[StaudtCJ]

All I have to say on the kiwi/kiwifruit subject is:

New Zealanders, take it up with the dictionary producers of the world, as well as Thesaurus writers and encyclopedia makers, if you have issue. Out of deference to your obvious upset, WHILE IN NEW ZEALAND, I will refer to the Kiwi as the Chinese Gooseberry. Just as while in the U.S. I will not call someone mulatto, no matter how that word is used elsewhere, and in England I will be quite comfortable asking for a fag if I want one, while in your nation I will do my best to appease your national pride. I will also never ask for a second helping in Japan, feel comfortable with less personal space in Russia, and never complain about poor service in the afternoon in Spain. That is the mark of a good guest, yes? However, asking the whole world to change because your feelings are hurt is a teensy-weensy bit arrogant, is it not? What was that saying? When in Rome... something...

You are on an international stage, and I'm sorry you feel slighted that you are not considered the ultimate authority on what a slimy, hair-covered fruit is called. Oh, and if you don't mind, I will call a small brown bird a kiwi, and a human a New Zealander.

[Alessan]

But since when do much national nicknames make much sense? I mean, what's a "Canuck" or a "Yank" when you think about it?

Hell, natives of my country are named after a type of cactus.

[Indistinguishable]

How do you think an Italian would feel if we started calling pizzas "Italys" or a French citizen would feel if we started calling a bagel "French" (and yes many places will market stuff like Italian Pizza or French Loaf)
Or, horrors, if we used "Danish" to describe a pastry.

I assure you, if you start referring to some fruit as a "bald eagle", we'd all be more amused than offended.

[Indistinguishable]

I suppose you'll say it's not the same, because we don't use "bald eagle" as a demonym. Very well, then. People from Ohio are colloquially called "buckeyes", after a native tree of which they are fond. Yet the term "buckeye" is also used for a particular peanut butter candy without causing much offense.

[Well, apart from one notable but irrelevant case here on the SDMB...]

[Electric Warrior]

This is not related to the 'kiwi' debate, but a couple of things I have noticed:

In Spain, where I spent a summer studying abroad, older people (over 30? 40?) believed that running air conditioning overnight was unhealthy. I've also heard about 'fan death'. So foreigners may find our obsession with temperature control while we're sleeping to be weird.

Another thing which I'll need confirmed is...nipples. While discussing bra choices with a friend in France, it came up that apparently the French are not bothered by 'perky nipples' on women the way Americans are.

I also think foreigners would be a bit weirded out by how large the average American's car is. And perhaps also that you can get taxis large enough to seat more than four people. My family of five has always had to hire two cabs in both Europe and Canada.

[manx]

Yes, as I've said I do know that the kiwi is a bird native to New Zealand. What I don't know is how the term came to be applied to New Zealanders. You named yourselves after a bird?

Esentially, yes. The version I've heard, is that the kiwi symbol was on the uniforms of New Zealand soldiers in WW1, and became a slang term for New Zealanders, which was gradually adopted by the rest the country.

There are also 19th century British advertisments encouraging people to emmigrate to 'Kiwiland' (or 'Maoriland'), so the kiwi, funny looking bird that it is, has been emblematic of NZ for a while now.

[StaudtCJ]

Some people from outside the U.S. are absolutely flabbergasted by the portion sizes in U.S. restaurants. A buddy from Japan claimed he could feed a family of three on an Olive Garden meal.

[ruadh]

1. So what? The CANADIAN dictionary calls it something...

Not just the Canadian dictionary, but the OED (http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50127133?query_type=word&queryword=kiwi&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=1&search_id=wkRz-VC937j-1634&hilite=50127133):

kiwi:
1. The native New Zealand name of the APTERYX, now commonly used in English.
2. (With capital initial.) A New Zealander, esp. a New Zealand soldier; also, a New Zealand sportsman.
3. Also Kiwi. A non-flying member of an air force (see also quot. 1938). slang.
4. = kiwi berry, fruit.
5. attrib. and Comb., as kiwi feather, -hunter, -preserve; kiwi berry, fruit = Chinese gooseberry

So there you have it, the ultimate authority on the English language confirms that it's a perfectly correct usage. Deal with it.

[Indistinguishable]

To be fair, an item's inclusion in the OED (or any other modern-style dictionary) just means that it is indeed a term which is commonly used. And I don't think anyone is denying that many English speakers do commonly use "kiwi" to refer to a fruit. The most that this could contribute to the debate is in the fact that there's no usage note about offensiveness next to that entry; but then, even that perhaps just indicates that few speakers consider this term offensive, which I think must already be acknowledged as an empirical fact by both sides of this debate as well.

[ruadh]

The most that this could contribute to the debate is in the fact that there's no usage note about offensiveness next to that entry

Nor any indication that it is "slang", as #3 is described, or "colloquial", or any of the other words that the OED uses when it considers a particular usage to be not quite proper.

[Ximenean]

I can understand the mild offence that some New Zealanders might take. It's not so much being likened to a fruit, it's more the implied ignorance of the fact that the word "kiwi" usually means a person, or literally a bird, and not a kiwifruit. To call the fruit a "kiwi" suggests that the speaker doesn't know anything about New Zealand.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Agreed; this isn't about spelling- it's about applying the correct name to a product; especially when the "incorrect" name has recognised meanings that aren't a fruit.


Is anyone else beginning to suspect that literally every New Zealander in the world is an asshole for stealing the word kiwi from the adorable little birds? After all, the word kiwi had a recognized meaning before it was stolen by the people.

Why is it ok for New Zealanders to steal the name from the bird without adding a clarifying modifier but not for the fruit to? At least the fruit looks like the little bird.

[RickJay]

From now on I'm calling kiwis/kiwifruits "buckeyes."

[Martini Enfield]

From now on I'm calling kiwis/kiwifruits "buckeyes."

Since no-one in NZ has ever heard of a "buckeye" you're welcome to go ahead. ;)

Is anyone else beginning to suspect that literally every New Zealander in the world is an asshole for stealing the word kiwi from the adorable little birds? After all, the word kiwi had a recognized meaning before it was stolen by the people.

Why is it ok for New Zealanders to steal the name from the bird without adding a clarifying modifier but not for the fruit to? At least the fruit looks like the little bird.

Actually, it was the British who took the name and applied it to the people who lived in the country- if you have a look at old books and ads from the British Empire in the late 19th and early 20th centuries it's not uncommon for NZ to be referred to as "Kiwiland" or "Maoriland".

You know, I can't help but feel that if there was a fruit from America called a "Coyotefruit", but we in Australia/NZ decided to call it a "Coyote", there would be people in the US getting shitty at us for doing so, and instead of saying "Well, OK, that's what you call it there" I suspect there would be several people here insisting we "Use the right name".

Of course, now I've mentioned that you'll all disagree with me and insist that's not the case, but I rather suspect that in fact it would be.

[Indistinguishable]

You know, I can't help but feel that if there was a fruit from America called a "Coyotefruit", but we in Australia/NZ decided to call it a "Coyote", there would be people in the US getting shitty at us for doing so, and instead of saying "Well, OK, that's what you call it there"
I doubt it. I don't think you'll find most of us demanding that you say "zucchini" instead of "courgette" or such things either.

[Bosstone]

I doubt it. I don't think you'll find most of us demanding that you say "zucchini" instead of "courgette" or such things either.Yeah. I imagine after the initial confusion ("You guys put coyotes in fruit salad?") most folk would be pretty amused and understanding. Backformation is not an unusual thing in American English.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Of course, now I've mentioned that you'll all disagree with me and insist that's not the case, but I rather suspect that in fact it would be.

Well you're wrong about that. I fucking LOVE coyotefruit and there better not be even one single Kiwihuman out there calling it by the wrong name.

[Spoons]

I doubt it. I don't think you'll find most of us demanding that you say "zucchini" instead of "courgette" or such things either.Similarly, reading through this thread, I've recalled my experiences in Australian supermarkets. I certainly didn't demand that the capsicums be relabelled green peppers. If what I call a green pepper at home is called a capsicum elsewhere, what of it?

Locally to me, it's sweater, not jumper; trunk, not boot; eavestrough, not gutter; hood, not bonnet; and elevator, not lift. It's spelled tire, not tyre; curb, not kerb, cheque, not check; and colour, not color. There are many other examples, but the important thing is this: I am well aware that my way is not the correct way in all the English-speaking countries of the world. I certainly don't demand that the English start putting luggage in the trunk of their cars, that Americans write cheques, and that Australians relabel supermarket produce to indicate that green peppers are for sale. Similarly, I don't expect foreigners to tell me what English vocabulary or spelling is acceptable in my own home.

I'm perfectly willing to work with your version of the language when we're in your home, but I think it's rather arrogant to attempt to push your version of the language into other places when inhabitants of those other places have made it very clear, through personal experience and published authorities, that your version won't be accepted in their homes anytime soon.

And we call it a coyote here, not a coyotefruit. The Yanks just shrug. So it seems there is no danger in them telling you what to call your coyotes.

[toadspittle]

Eating Corn on the Cob.

Zee German relations were a bit off-put by the fact we eat corn on the cob. ( Eating with your hands !!! it's sooo very wrong!!!!) and it is sweet corn. The few bits of corn I've had in german were blech.

Corn is for the animals, apparently.




Really? Our (formerly East-)German friend was surprised that we COOKED sweet corn--she said that she and her mom generally just ate it raw. And she always laughed at the fact that we would look on in horror if she bought a piece of fruit from the market and started eating it on the spot, without first washing it.

[Bosstone]

Of course, now I've mentioned that you'll all disagree with me and insist that's not the case, but I rather suspect that in fact it would be.Oh, and just to expand on this: sure, I'll allow that there are Americans who'd go, "Damn foreigners calling it what it ain't! It's a coyotefruit, dangit!" But that takes a special kind of insular mind, and I strongly doubt that someone who paid any attention to social studies in school and/or has experience with multicultural communities is going to be all that offended by different names for one thing.

[Lamia]

To be fair, an item's inclusion in the OED (or any other modern-style dictionary) just means that it is indeed a term which is commonly used. And I don't think anyone is denying that many English speakers do commonly use "kiwi" to refer to a fruit.There have however been repeated claims that this common usage is incorrect, wrong, or somehow not real.

There are two general ways in which a word can be used incorrectly. From a descriptivist perspective, there's the "nobody says that" rule. If native speakers of that language or dialect don't use a word in a particular way then that usage is wrong in that language/dialect. From a prescriptivist perspective, if a particular usage is not recognized by respected language authorities then it's wrong.

Either way you slice it, using "kiwi" to mean the fruit isn't wrong in North America because the usage is common here (have any UK Dopers weighed in on what the fruit is called there?) and it's also recognized by major English dictionaries including the OED, Merriam-Webster, and the American Heritage Dictionary. By any reasonable standard it is not merely common but perfectly correct in North America to call the fruit a "kiwi".

The most that this could contribute to the debate is in the fact that there's no usage note about offensiveness next to that entry; but then, even that perhaps just indicates that few speakers consider this term offensive, which I think must already be acknowledged as an empirical fact by both sides of this debate as well.Even the posters on the "No, it's a kiwifruit" side have largely conceded that calling the fruit a "kiwi" is not in and of itself offensive, the supposed offensiveness comes from non-New Zealanders persisting in using the wrong name even after they've been corrected. If it isn't the wrong name then there's nothing to correct and thus nothing to be offended about.

[toadspittle]

You know, I can't help but feel that if there was a fruit from America called a "Coyotefruit", but we in Australia/NZ decided to call it a "Coyote", there would be people in the US getting shitty at us for doing so, and instead of saying "Well, OK, that's what you call it there" I suspect there would be several people here insisting we "Use the right name".

Of course, now I've mentioned that you'll all disagree with me and insist that's not the case, but I rather suspect that in fact it would be.

Yeah, I think you're forgetting how unbelievably LAZY we are when it comes to our nicknames. If there were a way to shorten "grape" to less than one syllable, we would do it. Personally, I find it painful to have to call someone "Jonathan" rather than "Jon."

You think it's bad now? Within 20 years, you can expect us all to be calling kiwifruits "keys." (Or possibly "wiis," depending on how long Nintendo sticks around.)

[Snickers]

The best part about the kiwi/kiwifruit thing is that the very people who named the stupid thing are now taking issue with it. This is beyond funny to me. Perhaps you should've named it something else, then.

I am happy to call the fuzzy green fruit a "kiwifruit," however.

[Malthus]

From what I've seen, the ways that Canadians have adapted to our horrible winters are some of the things that foreigners find most odd obout our culture.

[Sitnam]

Sprouts on pizza and "boiled chicken" sound like something out of a Bill Hicks routine, I'm not sure if you're being serious.
I wish I was. I spent a year at University in B'ham and more than once I saw those abominations and more.

They have kick ass curry though and 10 years later I still miss doner kebabs.

[Spoons]

From what I've seen, the ways that Canadians have adapted to our horrible winters are some of the things that foreigners find most odd obout our culture."Honey, did you plug the car in last night?"
"Me? I thought you plugged the car in!"

:D

[SciFiSam]

I wish I was. I spent a year at University in B'ham and more than once I saw those abominations and more.

They have kick ass curry though and 10 years later I still miss doner kebabs.

Well, I've never seen sprouts on pizza, and the cold chicken that people sometimes eat is cold roast chicken, not boiled.

[Indistinguishable]

Even the posters on the "No, it's a kiwifruit" side have largely conceded that calling the fruit a "kiwi" is not in and of itself offensive, the supposed offensiveness comes from non-New Zealanders persisting in using the wrong name even after they've been corrected. If it isn't the wrong name then there's nothing to correct and thus nothing to be offended about.
Wait, is that all this is about now? Not intrinsic offensiveness, but just "It's the wrong name"? Then this is downright stupid and the "zucchini/courgette" example is spot-on for illustrating why. I couldn't even imagine someone being that anti-descriptivist as to fail to accept the legitimacy of mere variation in food names across countries; I assumed there must have been some extra element of "But that name is derogatory!" driving the hand-wringing.

[toadspittle]

Wait, is that all this is about now? Not intrinsic offensiveness, but just "It's the wrong name"? Then this is downright stupid and the "zucchini/courgette" example is spot-on for illustrating why. I couldn't even imagine someone being that anti-descriptivist as to fail to accept the legitimacy of mere variation in food names across countries; I assumed there must have been some extra element of "But that name is derogatory!" driving the hand-wringing.

Never underestimate people's ability to get angry over lack of recognition for their perceived ownership of something.




And as a Philadelphian, let me just say that they're called HOAGIES. We invented them. If you call them subs, we'll come over there and kick your asses.

;)

[Indistinguishable]

Bah! Heroes today, heroes tomorrow, heroes forever. North Jersey, what what!

[Indistinguishable]

Never underestimate people's ability to get angry over lack of recognition for their perceived ownership of something.
Incidentally, I was just spurred to go looking at the edit history and discussion pages for the Wikipedia article on the "submarine sandwich" (aka, hoagie, hero, grinder, etc.), and, boy, oh boy, are you right...

[StaudtCJ]

It's a SANDWICH. Why are you fancifying it up because you want a certain type of bread? It's bread. It's got stuff in it. Sandwich. :)

[Really Not All That Bright]

Incidentally, I was just spurred to go looking at the edit history and discussion pages for the Wikipedia article on the "submarine sandwich" (aka, hoagie, hero, grinder, etc.), and, boy, oh boy, are you right...
That is, if you ignore the fact that baguettes have been served with meat and cheese in them in Europe for centuries...

[Indistinguishable]

What's the "that" in "That is, if you ignore"? I wasn't saying toadspittle was right about the proper name (which I continue to mockingly maintain is "hero" [U-S-A! U-S-A!] and of course actually acknowledge can be any of a number of different regional terms); I was saying they were right about people getting angry over lack of recognition for their perceived cultural ownership of something, making needlessly hostile wars out of lexical variation, and so on.

[Really Not All That Bright]

*rechecks quoted text*

Oh. So you were. Boy, is my face red.

[gonzoron]

Or, horrors, if we used "Danish" to describe a pastry.Good point. From now on, I will ask for a "cheese Danish pastry." Also, I will be sure to use the following full names at all times:
French Kissing
French vegetable slicing
French bone exposing meat trimming technique (as opposed to Frenching, in all three cases)
English billiard ball spin inducement
Afghan knitted blanket
Brazillian genital waxing procedure

[wolfman]

Actually Coyote is already used here for people. Coyotes are the folks who extort from illegal aliens to get them across the border. And much in the way Road apple and Prarie Pie are used, Coyote Fruit sounds to me like a shit from a smuggler in the middle of the desert.

[Lamia]

Wait, is that all this is about now? Not intrinsic offensiveness, but just "It's the wrong name"?Apparently so. The word "kiwi" is not considered offensive in other contexts, and several posters here have said they are only offended because non-New Zealanders stubbornly refuse to be corrected as to the "right" name for the fruit.
Then this is downright stupid and the "zucchini/courgette" example is spot-on for illustrating why. I couldn't even imagine someone being that anti-descriptivist as to fail to accept the legitimacy of mere variation in food names across countries; I assumed there must have been some extra element of "But that name is derogatory!" driving the hand-wringing.If "kiwi" were considered derogatory in other contexts then I'd be opposed to using it for the fruit myself. If some people took to calling the fruit formerly known as the Chinese gooseberry the "Chinaman gooseberry" or worse still the "Chink gooseberry" then I'd consider that offensive and would encourage the use of some name that didn't include a racial slur. But "Kiwi" isn't a slur, and if it were then sticking "-fruit" on the end wouldn't seem like much of an improvement.

[constanze]

A few funny things from my foreign friends:
Germany: apparently "Why does a dog lick his balls?" is a common saying.

That's either a misunderstanding/mistranslation, or they were pulling your leg, because I've never heard that variant in Germany.

Maybe they tried to translate the commonly used "Leck mich (am Arsch)" (lick my arse), which is similar to "fuck you/ bugger off", but without the implied gratification to the other.

Besides, it's classical: it's a quote from Goethe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen#Goethe_and_the_famous_quote) in a historical play. (similar reputation and importance in German as Shakespeare for English)

[constanze]

This is what Canadians call bacon. (http://blogchef.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/crispy_bacon_1.jpg)

This is what everyone else in the world calls Canadian bacon. (http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/canadianbacon.jpg)

Only the english-speaking world, though: In German, these are Speck und Schinken, resprectevily. Though you get much more dishes with ham than with bacon - bacon roasted to a crisp is rare here.

I also have a hard time understanding why Americans use the name of one Italian thing, Peperoni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepperoncini) that means a vegetable bell pepper elsewhere, means a kind of Salami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peperoni) instead, when Salamis already have their own name.

I've been told that at least in the past, the great variety and popularity of "black" (what we call grey) bread in Germany (over 600 variants of bread!) is confusing to the French (and probably to most other people who only know that white-bread of the sponge-soft type.)

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I don't like to see kiwi juice when I visit the smoothy shop - I feel like asking where they got my blood from or whether the "juice" was squeezed from a live or dead kiwi.


So that yellow stuff we put on hamburgers is made from real Americans!? :eek:

[constanze]

Eating Corn on the Cob.

Zee German relations were a bit off-put by the fact we eat corn on the cob. ( Eating with your hands !!! it's sooo very wrong!!!!) and it is sweet corn. The few bits of corn I've had in german were blech.

Corn is for the animals, apparently.

Well, sweet corn = maize as vegetable hasn't caught on much in Germany until recently. Among the older generation, it's probably the bad experiences after WWII with the infamous mistranslation in BE/AE *. The Italian dish of polenta is not widespread.
So when farmers do grow corn, it's a variant bred for lots of starch, either for feeding animals (high return) or lately for making plastic products (shopping bags, one-time-usable eating utensils) from the starch. Which means that the sweet variety is rare in the supermarket, therefore expensive, so few people buy it, which means there is little incentive for farmers to grow it etc.
It has become a bit more popular as American custom for barbecuing, though, because it's so easy.

*In case you don't know the story: between 1945 and 1948, there was widespread hunger in Germany, and food had bought from abroad. So at one of the many conferences on what the Germans needed, the German representative said "Korn/Getreide", meaning grain generally, to bake bread. The translator, thinking of BE, said "corn". The British rep. thought of "wheat/grain generally" and nodded, because that made sense. The American rep. thought "corn=maize; we have already a surplus anyway, that the govt. bought from the farmers to help them, excellent!" and didn't ask any questions. So the Germans hungry for bread ... got chicken feed, golden corn that could be cooked for polenta, but not baked as bread, and which you got fed up with pretty quickly.

Really? Our (formerly East-)German friend was surprised that we COOKED sweet corn--she said that she and her mom generally just ate it raw.

That must be a special East german custom, never heard of it.

And she always laughed at the fact that we would look on in horror if she bought a piece of fruit from the market and started eating it on the spot, without first washing it.

That sounds like a stereotypical joke about the East Germans - so desperate for any special food like veggies or fruits that they eat them raw and unwashed!

I (West German) was always taught to wash fruits before eating, to remove the lead and manure and pesticides and wax and whatnot.

[depocali]

It's annoying because we identify ourselves (by and large) as Kiwis. Kiwis are people. Fruit are not people.

Somebody might say - "wow, Kiwis were cheap in the supermarket today"
So wow - now they are selling my compatriots from the local store? That's not in the least annoying?

And BTW - a fruit is "neutral" as you put it, but a people are not. What if I started calling molerats "Americans" - that wouldn't be the least annoying to, ya know actual Americans?

Well if we are going to argue about the sensitivities of 4 million Kiwis by hurting the sensiblilities of about 545 million people who are Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(word)) but not from the USA, well i guess there is a problem with your logic. (If you're counting at home that is 360 million Latin Americans and about 185 million Brazilians). Martini, on the other hand has been very clear he is referring to US people and not Americans in general.

So when you stop referring to the entire continent I'll start calling it "la fruta del kiwi" or even better "grosella china".

[depocali]

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to add my point, which is that language takes its own routes and not necessarily because of ignarance or malice. So although many in LatAm and Europe resent the term American referring to the US alone, reality is that it is the most common usage in English and very common in other languages, and so it is that a kiwifruit in most of the world (that is not NZ) is referred as a kiwi, you know what....shit happens.

[Tamerlane]

That tears it. From here on out I'm going to start referring to all New Zealanders as Kakapos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo).

Just be thankful I passed on Wetas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo) and Tuataras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuataras).

ETA: Though if making a nasty epithet out of it, "filthy, sheep-chasing wetas" does flow better :p.

[SciFiSam]

Only the english-speaking world, though: In German, these are Speck und Schinken, resprectevily. Though you get much more dishes with ham than with bacon - bacon roasted to a crisp is rare here.

Not this part of the English speaking world. In the UK, Canadian bacon would be bacon that comes from Canada, nothing more complicated than that.

That picture of 'Canadian bacon' looks like ham to me, and I doubt it'd be labelled bacon here. And the first picture is crispy bacon, which is only one way of cooking bacon - it's not the definitive bacon, in the UK at least.

[Kiwi Fruit]

I just wanted to say that I don't agree with bengangmo about the RoW use of 'kiwi' to mean the fruit.

[bengangmo]

Well if we are going to argue about the sensitivities of 4 million Kiwis by hurting the sensiblilities of about 545 million people who are Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(word)) but not from the USA, well i guess there is a problem with your logic. (If you're counting at home that is 360 million Latin Americans and about 185 million Brazilians). Martini, on the other hand has been very clear he is referring to US people and not Americans in general.

So when you stop referring to the entire continent I'll start calling it "la fruta del kiwi" or even better "grosella china".

Seriously I feel your pain here, I almost brought up this self same argument that the term "American" was wrong to use for all sorts of reasons. Tell you what - When you give me a name to call United Statesians I will 100% use it. Because having been educated on this board I don't like to use it due to its "sloppiness".

The little brown furry fruit with green innards however already has a perfectly cromulent name that somebody decided to shorten. It was / is Kiwifruit.

[bengangmo]

So that yellow stuff we put on hamburgers is made from real Americans!? :eek:

I dunno - we call it American MUSTARD but I much prefer to eat my hotdogs with RELISH

[bengangmo]

I just reread the thread.

Not speaking for everyone else, but I don't much care what you call the fruit formerly known as a Chinese Gooseberry :D, just please don't call it a Kiwi. If you want to call it a Kiwifruit that's cool. If you prefer Zespri - even better actually. If you wanna call it a furry kiwi egg, meh - I don't much care. I, and every other Kiwi I have spoken to that lives internationally gets a littled vexed when they hear that Kiwis are being sold in the supermarket and eaten.

[Banquet Bear]

I just reread the thread.

Not speaking for everyone else, but I don't much care what you call the fruit formerly known as a Chinese Gooseberry :D, just please don't call it a Kiwi. If you want to call it a Kiwifruit that's cool. If you prefer Zespri - even better actually. If you wanna call it a furry kiwi egg, meh - I don't much care. I, and every other Kiwi I have spoken to that lives internationally gets a littled vexed when they hear that Kiwis are being sold in the supermarket and eaten.

...please everyone note: bengangmo is speaking not speaking on behalf of all New Zealanders and I have never met a NZ'er that has been vexed or offended that the Kiwifruit is called a Kiwi. As far as this Kiwi is concerned, feel free to call it what ever you like!

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

...please everyone note: bengangmo is speaking not speaking on behalf of all New Zealanders and I have never met a NZ'er that has been vexed or offended that the Kiwifruit is called a Kiwi. As far as this Kiwi is concerned, feel free to call it what ever you like!

awww. Now I hope you and your people all know I was only joking when I said I think each and every one of you is an asshole for stealing your name from that little bird.

[Bacon Salt]

So that yellow stuff we put on hamburgers is made from real Americans!? :eek:"Are they made from real Girl Scouts?"

[Apollyon]

awww. Now I hope you and your people all know I was only joking when I said I think each and every one of you is an asshole for stealing your name from that little bird.We'll get over it. :)

And, bengangmo, please stop... I've been reading the posts to the thread since I was here last and having trouble breathing for laughter. :D

Phew... <breathe> I'm sorry this is something you feel strongly about, but let it go man... I've had Americans tell me that NZ is a Scandinavian country, and off the coast of Maine... the fruit... it really doesn't matter (http://xkcd.com/386/).

[bengangmo]

We'll get over it. :)

And, bengangmo, please stop... I've been reading the posts to the thread since I was here last and having trouble breathing for laughter. :D

Phew... <breathe> I'm sorry this is something you feel strongly about, but let it go man... I've had Americans tell me that NZ is a Scandinavian country, and off the coast of Maine... the fruit... it really doesn't matter (http://xkcd.com/386/).

Actually not so much. I am just trying to look (as opposed to actually be) busy in the office. Its a minor annoyance but not enough to engage in five pages of debate absent other motivations.

And now everyone is looking at me for laughing in the middle of the office you bugger :p

[Apollyon]

And now everyone is looking at me for laughing in the middle of the office you bugger :pI'm glad you got a laugh out of it. :)

[Mahaloth]

Yeah....so this thread turned out different than I intended. Having said that, I had no idea the whole Kiwifruit/Kiwi thing could be so offensive to someone. I have certainly learned something.


As an aside, many people in the restaurant business refer to kiwis as 'gorilla nuts.'


The....people? Wow! That's cold, restaurant people. That's cold!

;)

:D

[calm kiwi]

Wait, is that all this is about now? Not intrinsic offensiveness, but just "It's the wrong name"? Then this is downright stupid and the "zucchini/courgette" example is spot-on for illustrating why. I couldn't even imagine someone being that anti-descriptivist as to fail to accept the legitimacy of mere variation in food names across countries; I assumed there must have been some extra element of "But that name is derogatory!" driving the hand-wringing.

I don't know why I have come back to this thread! I must be bonkers!

The point is that the term Kiwi is not at all, even slighty, even remotely, not even a teensy bit (not even when Australians say it) offensive.

I can't think of a comparison with another country. I know Australian's don't call themselves Kangaroos. American's don't call themselves Eagles. The French don't call themselves esgargot (well I couldn't think of a French bird/animal!). The British call themselves Lions for rugby sometimes.

The South African rugby team is called the Spring Bok though I have never met a South African who called themself a Bok.

The point is Kiwi is not an offensive term. It's the completely the opposite of offensive.

Why we started calling ourselves Kiwi's is a mystery to me. But we do. It is what we call ourselves. It is a name we wear with pride.

A couple of Kiwis in this have said that they take no offence in calling a kiwifruit a kiwi and to be honest I don't either. It's not a big deal UNTIL you know the difference.

But perhaps our name exists just in our country, Australia and the UK and some of us have to get used to that (I might change my name...calm some-fruit is kind of ????) but please don't think any New Zealanders who had their knickers in a knot were offended because they believed KIWI was an offensive term, rather it is because it a name we love and feel a great deal of pride in...since way back when the fruit was still a Chinese Gooseberry.