Poll for the single men.

[Agent Foxtrot]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)

Check here (boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523686) to see what the women said. Please answer before you click that link.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

I almost never think A. B is most common and sometimes, when my face is breaking out in acne because I got lazy with my Proactiv, I think she's noticing the zits. If she recoils in terror shortly after the eye contact and smile, it's definately C.

[KneadToKnow]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)


c. "I wonder who she has mistaken me for."

[villa]

First thought is always:

C: Who is sitting beside me?

After that, if I am convinced it is me she is looking at, it is a cross between A & B. I'm not going to presume she is totally digging me, but I will at least presume she is slightly interested. I'll then hopefully end up with a phone number, and never call it because I convince myself the next day she was not interested. Or I will call 3 weeks later by which time she is dating a friend of mine. That's only happened 4 times.

[11811]

C. Bemused indifference.

[The Universe Lashes Out]

It depends on the type of smile. Sometimes I'm pretty convinced she actually digs me, sometimes it looks like she's just being friend. It also depends on what sort of mood I'm in that day.

[Oredigger77]

a or b

I tend to hope it’s a but plan on b. Even if she's not attractive I still want her to think that I'm attractive. In most setting it will at least get me to ask for a number or ask about a boyfriend.

[tdn]

It could be any one of them.

[palindromemordnilap]

Under normal circumstances, B. If there was something overt in her expression I would probably go to C (Is my fly open? Is she on drugs? She's gonna go for my wallet!) rather than A.

I have on a couple of occasions thought A when a woman repeatedly put her hand on my thigh. On these occasions, the correct answer turned out to be C.

[Dung Beetle]

In your particular case, tdn, it's a.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Somewhere between A and B, but leaning towards B.

[tdn]

In your particular case, tdn, it's a.

The weather here is bumming me out. It makes me want to ask God what the fuck a cubit is, and if I really have to collect all those damn animals. And the thing is, I have a date tonight and I really wanted to be in a great emotional state when I show up.

Thank you thank you thank you!

(Where's the kissy smiley when you need it?)

[Dung Beetle]

(smiles at tdn in a public place) :D

Good luck with your date.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

The weather here is bumming me out. It makes me want to ask God what the fuck a cubit is, and if I really have to collect all those damn animals. And the thing is, I have a date tonight and I really wanted to be in a great emotional state when I show up.

Thank you thank you thank you!

(Where's the kissy smiley when you need it?)

That Iranian woman again?

Or a different woman, you pimp! ;)

[tdn]

Different. Much much cuter.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Different. Much much cuter.

Damn man! How much do you charge for lessons? :cool:

[Khadaji]

Fixed link (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523686)

[Baby Driver]

... And the thing is, I have a date tonight and I really wanted to be in a great emotional state when I show up...

Good luck! Will you report back to the boards on how it went?

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Good luck! Will you report back to the boards on how it went?

... with pictures.

[zamboniracer]

What I think she means - A
What she actually means - C - there's the guy who I've got a restraining order against. I'll nail his ass in court now!

[An Arky]

I experience all three on any given walk, although b and c are more likely, just as a matter of odds.

[FallFast]

Never A,
Maybe B because C
Usually C, I always assume I bring a smile to a female face because I'm funny looking and they are laughing at me.

wow, do I have some self perception issues there/

[Quartz]

c. I don't read romance into it at all.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

c. I don't read romance into it at all.

Doesn't sound like a problem. Have you read the female version of this poll? They are almost never actually interested in the guy they're smiling at.

:(

[Red Skeezix]

b or c (there's something on my face).

if Ive been drinking then overwhelmingly to my detriment a.

[JRDelirious]

In descending order of likelihood, B, C(*), and A in a very distant third place.


(*most often: Is this someone I KNOW? I have a horrible time with remembering faces/names)




...what self-image/confidence issues? :p

[Birdmonster]

It depends on the situation and the girl, obviously, but I've learned through experience I'm rarely right. I've been sure its B when its A, A when its B, C when its B and so on. What I'd really like to get down is when it's A, then I strike up conversation and it feels A plus for a good ten minutes before the dreaded "and then my boyfriend" comment. I've been batting 1.000 for a while with that one.

[An Arky]

I experience all three on any given walk, although b and c are more likely, just as a matter of odds.

:smack: Hello, I'm married, therefore not qualified to speak. Plus, there is no "a". I wouldn't know, anyway, because, being married, I am utterly unaware of the existence of other women.


::gets released from half-nelson::

[ToeJam]

B for me

[MOIDALIZE]

c. She must have gas.

[Baby Driver]

c. She must have gas.

That's not a smile. That's a grimace.

[Sunspace]

It's never A. Maaaybe it's B; but 95% of the time it's C: who's beside me, is there something risible about me, do I look like the circus is in town, etc. But I'll add that it almost never happens.

[Thudlow Boink]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)

Without reading anybody else's answer: I think it's some combination of A, B, and/or C, with C being "She wants something from me" (like, for example, help reaching something on the top shelf at the store).

She wouldn't be smiling at me unprovoked if there weren't at least a teensy amount of "digging," but it could easily be far from total.

ETA: "Digging" interpreted in the loose sense of "being positively inclined toward me," which doesn't necessarily (but could) involve actual attraction.

[gonzomax]

It was always A.

[tdn]

Good luck! Will you report back to the boards on how it went?

I don't want to make this thread about me. So I'll try to stay on topc as much as I can.

It was freakin' SURREAL. Half of the time I wasn't even listening to her. I was thinking "I have to post to the SDMB about this!" The only thing better than a great date is a great story about a bad date.

I did indeed get into a great state of mind. The weather cleared up and Dung Beetle's compliment had me totally stoked. And I was transmitting the vibe when I was walking to our meeting place. I was getting plenty of type A eyes (and hellos) from a number of cute women. The one I liked best was a cute blonde in a blue blouse. It seemed like we had real energy. Definite type A eyes. I would have stopped and talked to her, but I didn't want to be late. For my date. With Kate.

Bit of background: The way I met Kate was through speed dating. I met something like 18 women that night, and I remember most of them but forgot a few. I definitely remember Kate. She was one of the few I had a true interest in. And we had a fantastic time talking. I wrote her name down and put a checkmark next to it. I checked off a few other names of cute women, but Kate was the one I really wanted. That was a True Connection.

And Kate checked me off too. We sent a few really nice e-mails back and forth and agreed to meet. Tonight. Magic was in the air.

So I'm feeling good and I KNOW that things are going to go fantastic. I arrive at the cafe. Kate is not there yet. There are plenty of attractive women walking around, some saying hi to me. I didn't really want to talk to them or check them out too much, because Kate will arrive any second and I don't want to be rude. Tonight is all about The Kate.

I see Blue Blouse Girl across the street and and she's looking at me. Type A eyes. She's crossing the street and heading straight for me. And smiling. Giving me The Eyes. Woah. Is she about to hit on me? This is really freakin' WEIRD.

She comes right up to me and says "tdn? I thought I passed by you earlier, but I wasn't sure." She mentions speed dating.

WTF?!? I've never met this girl in my life! She looks slightly familiar, but I have no memory of talking to her. Maybe we met at speed dating, but she is definitely Not Kate. She's quite attractive, though. Me like.

While we sat and talked I had a lot of thoughts of telling her "I'm sorry, but I think there's been a mistake. I was supposed to meet Kate tonight." But this girl is attractive and we're having a fantastic conversation, so I just go with it. I want to see where this is headed. She asks me where I was born. I tell her. She responds with a story about how she's connected with that place. Then it all comes back to me. I did meet her! She was kind of fun. I just forgot what she looked like.

She is pretty, fun, and intelligent, and I like spending time with her. I'd definitely go on another date with her. The night ended well. No huge romance, but one never knows.

When I got home just a little bit ago, I looked at my speed dating notes. The amazing brunette that I'd connected with was Laura. Kate was the girl I met just after her.

Note to self: When meeting a lot of women, take accurate notes. This could have ended up much much worse.

[Face Intentionally Left Blank]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She's just being nice."

Off to see what the ladies said. . .

BTW, the link in the OP is broken.

[Shakes]

It depends on their level of physical attractiveness.

If she's an average looking woman that I normally hook up with; I'll go with A.


If she's a total hottie that is normally way out of my league; I'll go with B.

Your linky is broken dammit!!:mad::)

[Jragon]

B that washes into C territory.

The feeling is more like "wow, I'm so pathetic they think they have to smile to make me feel better about myself." However, this isn't just when women smile at me, it's anyone including small children sooo...

[tdn]

Damn man! How much do you charge for lessons? :cool:

$0. Check my post #35. When (or if) I actuallty get good at this, I'll charge considerably more. But until now, I'm stumbling in the dark every bit as much as you are.

[devilsknew]

I don't really use that protocol at all. I just talk to them and get rejected immediately. Ba dump ba dumP!

[The Tao's Revenge]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)

Check here (link.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523686) to see what the women said. Please answer before you click that link.

I like to think A, but lately I'm wondering if it's B. A lot of the time I think it's C. I tend to wear a mischievous smirk as a default expression.

[BlackKnight]

I am unable to answer the OP, as such a thing has never happened.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Guys, the link in the OP doesn't even need to work, as the thread is in this same forum and the first page. Little work won't kill ya. :p Nor would reporting the post and just telling the mod that the link is broken.

Besides, I've already been there and the news is not good. Usually if a poster in that thread is smiling at a guy, she's being nice.

Sad but true. Now if you'll excuse me, I've depressed myself and Dr. Dre has given me direct orders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4mpbw68_HA) to enjoy Dr Pepper. Slowly. So I'm going to go self-medicate. ;)

[kevin_c]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)

Check here (link.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523686) to see what the women said. Please answer before you click that link.

Something else? (Check my fly to see if it is unzipped.)

[jjimm]

Depends on the mood I'm in.

Usually a, sometimes b, and sometimes if I'm really down, c, namely horrified fascination: "OMG how did nature allow that hideous beast to exist on this earth more than five minutes after it was born???"

[Agent Foxtrot]

<snip>Guys, the link in the OP doesn't even need to work, as the thread is in this same forum and the first page. Little work won't kill ya. :p Nor would reporting the post and just telling the mod that the link is broken.</snip>Thanks, Bees. I reported it yesterday but I think the mods had the day off. ;)

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Men, what do you think when a woman makes eye contact and smiles at you in a public place? Is it:


"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)

Check here (link.http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523686) to see what the women said. Please answer before you click that link.

I assume all women I meet are interested in me whether they smile or not. Admittedly I don`t ask out all women I meet or make awkward passes at them but I pretty much assume everyone is ok to flirt with and see where it goes. I'm finally getting old enough where I have to look for wedding rings :(, but even that doesn`t really stop me from flirting.

It seems better than the approach we see posted on this message board sometimes, which is "post 3 pages of details about spurious interactions with a woman I've never spoken to and ask a bunch of people whether she's into me".

[Baby Driver]

Is it at all telling that this thread has considerably more responses than the sister thread asking for the ladies' opins?

[Frosted Glass]

Almost always B. The only time I think A is possible is if she follows the smile up with conversation.

[Jophiel]

B. Chance of C. Nil chance of A.

[hotflungwok]

C. Hey that manatee learned how to wear clothes and walk on dry land. Good for him.

[panaccione]

I think, "she digs me." Then I open my mouth and find out the truth.

[The Tao's Revenge]

Guys you gotta stop the self hate. So many negative self images in this thread. You need to feel pretty, tell yourself you're pretty, and spend a little extra time being pretty. Then, here's the important part. Anyone who disagrees can fuck off. Don't listen to negative self talk, it skews your perspective just as much being too optimistic does.

Also try wearing a smile. Not a big a creepy one, but a normal friendly, and slightly mischievous one. I've noticed I get a lot more smiles from women when I look like I'm up to something. At the very least it helps your mood.

[Locrian]

C. "Yep, he's a serial killer/ loser."

[Locrian]

Just saw the responses. I love Baby Driver's answer. Eeeee, what a cute username! ;)

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Guys you gotta stop the self hate. So many negative self images in this thread. You need to feel pretty, tell yourself you're pretty, and spend a little extra time being pretty. Then, here's the important part. Anyone who disagrees can fuck off. Don't listen to negative self talk, it skews your perspective just as much being too optimistic does.

Also try wearing a smile. Not a big a creepy one, but a normal friendly, and slightly mischievous one. I've noticed I get a lot more smiles from women when I look like I'm up to something. At the very least it helps your mood.

It doesn't matter. Read the Female Thread. If they're smiling at you it's because they're being friendly. In the chance they do find you attractive, they don't look. WTF?

Seriously though, my "self hate" is usually for humorous purposes. I can't help but smile sometimes when I'm out in public, that is until I remember I'm covered in bees.

You know how it goes. Just walkin' along the mall doing some window shopping and... holy fuck I'm covered in bees!

Typing that out actually has made me laugh my ass off in real life. Now this is something I'll be smiling about next time I remember it.

[The Tao's Revenge]

It doesn't matter. Read the Female Thread. If they're smiling at you it's because they're being friendly. In the chance they do find you attractive, they don't look. WTF?


I read it. It contained no surprises. Women aren't usually attracted to random strangers, and like a lot of people, tend to be friendly.

Also the not looking makes sense. Women are encouraged culturally to be more subtle then men in those things. Plus I don't visibly look either at women I'm attracted to. Maybe take a few covert glances but never noticable look if I can help it. I either try talking to them, or as is the usual case, get shy and gtfo/hide behind something such as my laptop.


Seriously though, my "self hate" is usually for humorous purposes. I can't help but smile sometimes when I'm out in public, that is until I remember I'm covered in bees.

You know how it goes. Just walkin' along the mall doing some window shopping and... holy fuck I'm covered in bees!


Hey man whatever gets you the honeys.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

I read it. It contained no surprises. Women aren't usually attracted to random strangers, and like a lot of people, tend to be friendly.

Also the not looking makes sense. Women are encouraged culturally to be more subtle then men in those things. Plus I don't visibly look either at women I'm attracted to. Maybe take a few covert glances but never noticable look if I can help it. I either try talking to them, or as is the usual case, get shy and gtfo/hide behind something such as my laptop.

Stop your sense making! You... maker of sense! Sorry, I have no idea how to playfully insult you. You have a private message by the way.

Hey man whatever gets you the honeys.

;)

[Indistinguishable]

She's just being nice/She's just reacting with typical human courtesy to my happening to be looking at her (whether intentionally or randomly). I assume anyone actually interested in me will take the effort to make it clear (though it never happens).

Also, yeah, I am duly skeptical of the idea that strangers will be interested in me before knowing anything about me or having had any significant conversations with me.

[Max the Immortal]

C. She probably won't mace me if I try to strike up a conversation.

[AHunter3]

"She totally digs me."
"She's just being nice."
Something else? (Please specify.)


She's in a good mood about something. Anything. Maybe it's a nice sunny day and the sun feels good on her shoulders, who knows?

[tdn]

Guys you gotta stop the self hate. So many negative self images in this thread. You need to feel pretty, tell yourself you're pretty, and spend a little extra time being pretty. Then, here's the important part. Anyone who disagrees can fuck off. Don't listen to negative self talk, it skews your perspective just as much being too optimistic does.

Also try wearing a smile. Not a big a creepy one, but a normal friendly, and slightly mischievous one. I've noticed I get a lot more smiles from women when I look like I'm up to something. At the very least it helps your mood.

Seconded. Emotions are contageous.

[Baby Driver]

Just saw the responses. I love Baby Driver's answer. Eeeee, what a cute username! ;)

Thanks, hon :)

[Sunspace]

Note to self: When meeting a lot of women, take accurate notes. This could have ended up much much worse. It's safe to say that many of us guys do not have to worry about this.

Also, face blindness makes these kinds of situations much more perilous.

[tdn]

Also, face blindness makes these kinds of situations much more perilous.

That's pretty much what it felt like I had.

[The Understander]

C. You and my boyfriend would make such good friends!

[hotflungwok]

Guys you gotta stop the self hate. So many negative self images in this thread. You need to feel pretty, tell yourself you're pretty, and spend a little extra time being pretty. Then, here's the important part. Anyone who disagrees can fuck off. Don't listen to negative self talk, it skews your perspective just as much being too optimistic does.

Also try wearing a smile. Not a big a creepy one, but a normal friendly, and slightly mischievous one. I've noticed I get a lot more smiles from women when I look like I'm up to something. At the very least it helps your mood.

Sorry, nope. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156403.php)

Fake confidence only helps for that brief moment when you can confuse 'em. Once that moment is past everything you've been faking becomes obvious. I can tell myself and the world I'm pretty all I want, it won't make it true.

[tdn]

Sorry, nope. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156403.php)

Fake confidence only helps for that brief moment when you can confuse 'em. Once that moment is past everything you've been faking becomes obvious. I can tell myself and the world I'm pretty all I want, it won't make it true.

That study seems pretty flawed on a number of levels. For one thing, it's way too short-term. Building confidence and self-esteem takes time and persistence. It's not something that can be done in an afternoon. When you start out with positive affirmations, your body will resist them for a time. It's kind of like when you start an exercise and diet routine, you might actually gain a pound or two initially. It's the long-term lifestyle changes that bring results.

I have to question the competency of those that did the study. Suppose they had conducted a study on exercise and diet in the same way they did this one. They'd be proclaiming that exercise makes you fat.

[Dung Beetle]

I’d really like to see some of you “ugly” people. I can’t believe all you fun, witty posters are actually a bunch of gargoyles.

[hotflungwok]

I’d really like to see some of you “ugly” people. I can’t believe all you fun, witty posters are actually a bunch of gargoyles.
Why would your opinion be worth more than ours? I highly doubt you're going to look at people posting pictures and go 'Damn dude, you're right, you're uglier than two bags of smashed assholes!'.

And why would your opinion be worth more than all those who came before you? An unattractive person, by definition does not attract people. If I don't attract people, and I have a preponderance of evidence that this is the case, then by definition I am unattractive. Your one vote really isn't going to count for much.

[Oredigger77]

C. She probably won't mace me if I try to strike up a conversation.

Won't mace, totally digs. I don't see a difference. It's all A to me, baby.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Why would your opinion be worth more than ours? I highly doubt you're going to look at people posting pictures and go 'Damn dude, you're right, you're uglier than two bags of smashed assholes!'.

And why would your opinion be worth more than all those who came before you? An unattractive person, by definition does not attract people. If I don't attract people, and I have a preponderance of evidence that this is the case, then by definition I am unattractive. Your one vote really isn't going to count for much.

Maybe it's your sunny disposition? Women hate cheery optimists.

[hotflungwok]

Maybe it's your sunny disposition? Women hate cheery optimists.
Right, cuz that's clearly the first thing they see. I mean, I hear it all the time. Damn, that guy is fat n ugly, but hey, he's clearly got a sunny disposition, I can't lose!

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Right, cuz that's clearly the first thing they see. I mean, I hear it all the time. Damn, that guy is fat n ugly, but hey, he's clearly got a sunny disposition, I can't lose!

I'm just saying, there are plenty of women who would rather be with an overweight but pleasantly disposed guy who is fun to be with than a handsome and fit cantankerous sourpuss. And the fat and ugly cantankerous sourpusses? Cheering up sounds like a great place to start.

[tdn]

Right, cuz that's clearly the first thing they see.

Actually, it is. Women are amazingly sensitive to that. I know that you're not going to believe me, but just entertain the idea for a while and imagine how your world would be different.

A couple of years ago I was on my way to the pool and saw a woman who was a vision of loveliness. She was a real cutie. We chatted for a tiny bit and her personality matched her looks. I thought that if I were single, I could really go for her. But would she go for a chubby guy like me? Naw.

At the pool she was joined by her boyfriend. This guy was HUGE. 350 at least. And she was all over him. The look on her face while she wrapped herself around him was amazing. She looked like the luckiest girl on the planet. You could FEEL the attraction from 20 feet away.

But if you really feel that your weight is what's holding you back (Hint: It isn't), then get to a gym and change your body.

[hotflungwok]

Actually, it is. Women are amazingly sensitive to that. I know that you're not going to believe me, but just entertain the idea for a while and imagine how your world would be different.
Yeah, I know. But you know what else? It's nothing without being attractive. Sure people want funny and outgoing and upbeat and interesting and intelligent and all kinds of other things, but what they actually want is a funny attractive person, an outgoing attractive person, an intelligent attractive person. I'm glad that guy attracted someone. By definition, that makes him attractive. This isn't that hard to understand.

But if you really feel that your weight is what's holding you back (Hint: It isn't), then get to a gym and change your body.
Oh, I am going to a gym. But I have no illusions about that suddenly making me attractive.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

I'm glad that guy attracted someone. By definition, that makes him attractive. This isn't that hard to understand.


It really must be though because you're equivocating quite a bit. On the one hand, you say attractive is tautological in that if and only if you've attracted a partner are you attractive. On the other hand, you say that physical attractiveness is requisite to find a partner. But that's clearly not the case with the fat galoot tdn was spying on. He was attractive, by definition 1, because he found a partner who is attracted to him. But tdn told us he wasn`t physically attractive. So at least for some of us, it must be a little hard to understand.

Personally I say cheer up and stay positive. Keep going to the gym. I haven`t seen you, but can I suggest a hair cut? A lot of men would look way better with a nicer hair style.

[tdn]

Yeah, I know. But you know what else? It's nothing without being attractive. Sure people want funny and outgoing and upbeat and interesting and intelligent and all kinds of other things, but what they actually want is a funny attractive person, an outgoing attractive person, an intelligent attractive person. I'm glad that guy attracted someone. By definition, that makes him attractive. This isn't that hard to understand.

OK, great. We're almost on the same page here. I'm glad. Now we just have to agree on what attractive means. If it's not in your physique, then where is it? Your facial features? That can't be right. Look at Dennis Franz. One of the homeliest guys on the planet. And yet he was one of the world's top sex symbols for a while. So it's not the face.

Maybe it's money. Women are attracted to rich guys, no doubt about it. Take a walk through a ghetto sometime. What do you see? Children. Lots and lots of children, probably more than their parents' incomes can support. Clearly, poor men are meeting women.

Have we eliminated just about all of the physical reasons for attractive? Good, we're getting somewhere. Eliminate the physical, and what are we left with? There's the intellectual, but there are plenty of dumb guys who get lots of women. Hang around any university with a football team and you'll see this in spades.

What does that leave us with? Emotional. Emotions are contageous. Whatever you are feeling, you transmit. If you talk to a woman (or even get within some physical proximity to her) and you're feeling sad, she'll pick up on the sadness and you'll bring her down. If you feel like you're being creepy talking to her, she'll get creeped out. Guess what happens if you feel amazing?

You're attractive!

Rule #1 of dating: Men are attracted to tits and butts. Women are attracted to emotions.

If you're funny and outgoing and upbeat and interesting and intelligent and CONFIDENT and you LOVE YOUR LIFE, then your looks and money are just icing on the cake.

And you can learn it. Anyone can. It might take some work. It absolutely takes commitment. Most of all, it demands that you believe in it. That last point is very important!

Once again, don't believe what I'm telling you. But just imagine how your life might improve if what I'm saying turns out to be true.

[The Tao's Revenge]

Yeah, I know. But you know what else? It's nothing without being attractive. Sure people want funny and outgoing and upbeat and interesting and intelligent and all kinds of other things, but what they actually want is a funny attractive person, an outgoing attractive person, an intelligent attractive person. I'm glad that guy attracted someone. By definition, that makes him attractive. This isn't that hard to understand.


You don't think being funny and outgoing could be what is making him attractive?

[tdn]

But that's clearly not the case with the fat galoot tdn was spying on.
I wasn't spying on him! I don't spy on ugly fat men in bathing suits!

But no one there that day could ignore the interaction going on. Eveyone was noticing.

Personally I say cheer up and stay positive. Keep going to the gym. I haven`t seen you, but can I suggest a hair cut? A lot of men would look way better with a nicer hair style.

Amen. And get flattering, non-boring clothes that fit well. Get awesome shoes and a belt to match. Keep your fingernails trimmed and clean. Much in the way a man can size a woman up in less than a second (Tits, butt, waistline, hair), a woman can size a man up (Confidence, shoes, belt, fingernails, hair). Take care of the basics.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

Amen. And get flattering, non-boring clothes that fit well. Get awesome shoes and a belt to match. Keep your fingernails trimmed and clean. Much in the way a man can size a woman up in less than a second (Tits, butt, waistline, hair), a woman can size a man up (Confidence, shoes, belt, fingernails, hair). Take care of the basics.

Can you give me some examples of shirts and pants that would "look good"? Nothing that is more than one layer please, I live in NM and it's hot enough as it is with a t-shirt and shorts on.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Why is this poll confined to single men? I got way more smiles from women after I got married than before.

[Snowboarder Bo]

c) Yes! Opportunity beckons again!

Which may be the same as a) I guess, but is a bit more tempered.

[tdn]

Can you give me some examples of shirts and pants that would "look good"? Nothing that is more than one layer please, I live in NM and it's hot enough as it is with a t-shirt and shorts on.

No.

I was in the Santa Fe/Albuquerque area for a week a year ago in June. I wore a wool suit for many hours and it sucked ass. What's worse, I danced with relatives after having eaten a ton of spicy food. I sweated like a pig. And that was in a DRY heat! The wet heat around here is just as bad.

Urban Outfitters is not my style. Express has some great stuff that looks great on me, and it's cheap. TJ Maxx has great stuff, but you really have to hunt for it. Check out some of the offbeat stores. I've found some great stuff at places that cater to retro hippies with style. My last GF introduced my to Lucky Brand. I love that stuff.

I like shirts that have an interseting color or texture. If I'm forced to wear a dress shirt and tie to work (which I am), I choose interesting stuff. My favortite is a pink shirt with a matching pink striped tie. It invites a lot of comments from women. Tons.

I think my favorite was from a woman who said "You have to be really sexually secure to wear a color like that."

Duh!

[Trick Rider]

Usually C.
"Hmmm, that there has potential. Just fix that, that, that, that, etc."

[hotflungwok]

What does that leave us with? Emotional. Emotions are contageous. Whatever you are feeling, you transmit. If you talk to a woman (or even get within some physical proximity to her) and you're feeling sad, she'll pick up on the sadness and you'll bring her down. If you feel like you're being creepy talking to her, she'll get creeped out. Guess what happens if you feel amazing?
Right, because there are no sad people in relationships, and everyone who thinks they aren't being creepy very obviously are not. Clearly all single people are have emotional problems, and all couples are always happy and positive. Hmm, no that doesn't sound right. Sad people meet women too. So we've eliminated emotions, as well as money, looks, & intellect. What does that leave? Hmm, not much. I guess that means nobody is single.

Once again, don't believe what I'm telling you. But just imagine how your life might improve if what I'm saying turns out to be true.
I don't believe what you're telling me, cuz I tried it. Been there, done that. It isn't that simple. What I learned is that just being positive is like faking confidence: it's only good till they see past it to who you really are. If you can't carry it the rest of the way with funny, intelligent, & attractive, then it's just veneer.

Personally I say cheer up and stay positive. Keep going to the gym. I haven`t seen you, but can I suggest a hair cut? A lot of men would look way better with a nicer hair style.
Well, actually, I got a haircut last weekend, and oddly enough nothing changed. Cheering up and staying positive only works if you got the rest of it too.

[Baby Driver]

Look Hotflungwok, you're evidently frustrated/unhappy about being single, and imo tdn and Fuzzy Dunlop have been trying at great and rather remarkable length to help you out. But you can't bring a dead horse to water and make it drink.

What I learned is that just being positive is like faking confidence: it's only good till they see past it to who you really are. If you can't carry it the rest of the way with funny, intelligent, & attractive, then it's just veneer.

Well...yes. I think most women would like their potential partners to be funny, intelligent, and attractive, since the implied alternative is that he's humorless, stupid, and ugly. Are you saying that you're unable to be any of these things to anyone?

Personal preferences aside (and it is quite a big aside), of course there are generally agreed upon standards for beauty, intellect, etc. People don't generally get confused between Penelope Cruz and Susan Boyle. But I think the majority of men and women want to find someone whom they find engaging yet can be comfortable with. No one's perfect and in a relationship you've got to figure out what you're okay with trading off and what you're unwilling to compromise. To some women your appearance my matter more than to others; it's something people prioritize just like any other quality.

[tdn]

Look Hotflungwok, you're evidently frustrated/unhappy about being single, and imo tdn and Fuzzy Dunlop have been trying at great and rather remarkable length to help you out. But you can't bring a dead horse to water and make it drink.

Very true!

25 years ago my mindset was more or less exactly like his. I was convinced that I sucked and women would never like me, and I went to huge lengths to prove it not only to myself but to the world. Some people tried really hard to get me to adopt a more optimistic world view, but that just made me dig my heels in harder. That was a really dark period in my life.

My outlook these days is much different. Life is fantastic and I can't wait to see how today is going to unfold. It never ceases to amaze me that reality is whatever you create it to be.

[tdn]

I’d really like to see some of you “ugly” people. I can’t believe all you fun, witty posters are actually a bunch of gargoyles.

Are you suggesting that some people might have slightly distorted views of themselves? I'd love to pin you down on this and get something straight between us. And rearrange every cell in your lovely body in the process.

Ouch. I think I sprained something just imagining it. You are dangerous!

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Well, actually, I got a haircut last weekend, and oddly enough nothing changed. Cheering up and staying positive only works if you got the rest of it too.

I wasn`t suggesting you get your hair cut, I was suggesting you try a new style. For some reason a lot of people walk around with hair that does nothing to help their look. Find a local salon - it doesn`t have to be expensive - and ask for a stylist who is good with men's cuts. In my experience male stylists are a little more likely to put effort into it than women but there's no reason to be sexist. Any competent stylist could talk to you for a few minutes do something even just a bit different that would really improve your look.

Really though my point is there's a lot you can do to make yourself look better if you`re willing to invest a bit in it. Maybe you'll never be quite as attractive as me, tdn, or Brad Pitt, in that order, but you don't need to compare yourself to other guys. If you're not happy with the way you look, there are a lot of easy changes for the better out there that don`t involve changing who you are as a person.

Personally, I'd recommend changing who you are as a person too, because you seem like a sourpuss to me. But, I digress.

I realize you're not really interested in my advice, but I don't care. Maybe someone else will find it useful.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Can you give me some examples of shirts and pants that would "look good"? Nothing that is more than one layer please, I live in NM and it's hot enough as it is with a t-shirt and shorts on.

You have to find something that works for your style. People often say to me things like 'I could never pull that look off" or "not a lot of guys could pull that off", which out of context on an Internet message board sounds like it might be just finding something polite to say, but most people seem to genuinely like the way I dress. On the flip side though, I'd look like an ass in a graphic t-shirt or a hoodie; whereas most any guy under a certain age looks totally at ease in those clothes. People are just different.

Make sure your clothes fit well. Bring a fashionable girl or guy friend and get their opinion. Failing that, go at a time the store won't be busy and befriend a few sales clerks. It's a boring job and in my experience most people will love to kill 20 minutes helping a friendly guy pick out clothes. Not just "be happy to". Like, "I'm obviously really happy you came in and helped me pass the time by being witty and appreciative of my help"

Don't wear shorts that are really culottes that you call shorts. Don't wear denim shorts. Don't wear pleated shorts. And please don`t ever wear pleated denim shorts.

[tdn]

Maybe you'll never be quite as attractive as me, tdn, or Brad Pitt, in that order,

Woah! WTF? Since when does Brad move up to third place?

[tdn]

Don't wear shorts that are really culottes that you call shorts. Don't wear denim shorts. Don't wear pleated shorts. And please don`t ever wear pleated denim shorts.

Can I get a high five on that?

Personally, I go for things that are a little unusual. Interesting textures, strange collar shapes, unsymmetrical patterns. If a store smells like patchouli, I'll take a look. I may have to spend a bit more, but it's worth it.

Shoes are really important. For some reason a woman can look at your shoes and instantly tell if you'll give her orgasms. I like snake or alligator skin, but for some reason that turns off vegan women. Win/win!

[Dung Beetle]

Why would your opinion be worth more than ours? I highly doubt you're going to look at people posting pictures and go 'Damn dude, you're right, you're uglier than two bags of smashed assholes!'.
I bet my ex-husband was uglier than…well, anyone, but he was fun to play Jeopardy with and knew a lot about music.

After a quick look at your posting history, I see that you’re a very articulate guy, an atheist who had a religious upbringing, and a fan of Jim Butcher. Hey, I’m all those things too, except articulate! :) On that alone, you’d impress me as intelligent. If you also seemed kind and funny, I’d really enjoy your company. (Gaming, well, you’d have to teach me about that). Let’s see, cleanliness is important, basic good manners, but you know this, right?

There’s more that goes into a successful relationship, of course, but I think we’re up to possible attraction now, and it would have a lot to do with how we got along. I swear.

[hotflungwok]

Look Hotflungwok, you're evidently frustrated/unhappy about being single, and imo tdn and Fuzzy Dunlop have been trying at great and rather remarkable length to help you out. But you can't bring a dead horse to water and make it drink.
Wow, that's trying at great lengths? 'Aw cmon, cheer up'? Please. It's very easy for people who are on the shore to shout encouragement to those who are still drowning.

Personal preferences aside (and it is quite a big aside), of course there are generally agreed upon standards for beauty, intellect, etc. People don't generally get confused between Penelope Cruz and Susan Boyle. But I think the majority of men and women want to find someone whom they find engaging yet can be comfortable with. No one's perfect and in a relationship you've got to figure out what you're okay with trading off and what you're unwilling to compromise. To some women your appearance my matter more than to others; it's something people prioritize just like any other quality.
I already talked about this. If you attractive people, you are attractive. If you don't you're not. I don't, so I'm not.

25 years ago my mindset was more or less exactly like his. I was convinced that I sucked and women would never like me, and I went to huge lengths to prove it not only to myself but to the world. Some people tried really hard to get me to adopt a more optimistic world view, but that just made me dig my heels in harder. That was a really dark period in my life.
Um, okay... This isn't a really dark period in my life. It's just another period in my life. If you were to talk to my friends I'll bet they would describe me as upbeat and generally happy. I don't walk around kicking puppies and swearing at kids. And yet somehow, in spite of all the advice you've given, I'm still single. Absolutely everything in my life indicates that your advice is simply wrong.

I wasn`t suggesting you get your hair cut, I was suggesting you try a new style. For some reason a lot of people walk around with hair that does nothing to help their look. Find a local salon - it doesn`t have to be expensive - and ask for a stylist who is good with men's cuts. In my experience male stylists are a little more likely to put effort into it than women but there's no reason to be sexist. Any competent stylist could talk to you for a few minutes do something even just a bit different that would really improve your look.
Sigh. Been there, done that, hasn't worked. My hair doesn't respond well to styling. If it's not really short, it impossible to control. I've tried lots of things, and nothing works.

Really though my point is there's a lot you can do to make yourself look better if you`re willing to invest a bit in it. Maybe you'll never be quite as attractive as me, tdn, or Brad Pitt, in that order, but you don't need to compare yourself to other guys. If you're not happy with the way you look, there are a lot of easy changes for the better out there that don`t involve changing who you are as a person.
Veneer.

Personally, I'd recommend changing who you are as a person too, because you seem like a sourpuss to me. But, I digress.
As I said before, I'm not. I'm just realistic about this. Wishing doesn't make it so.

I realize you're not really interested in my advice, but I don't care. Maybe someone else will find it useful.
I would be interested if it had any bearing on me, but like I said, everything in my experience says your advice is wrong.

[Dung Beetle]

Are you suggesting that some people might have slightly distorted views of themselves?

I am indeed. I don’t think your self-esteem is high enough. :)

[hotflungwok]

I bet my ex-husband was uglier than…well, anyone, but he was fun to play Jeopardy with and knew a lot about music.[QUOTE]
But he still attracted you...

[QUOTE]After a quick look at your posting history, I see that you’re a very articulate guy, an atheist who had a religious upbringing, and a fan of Jim Butcher. Hey, I’m all those things too, except articulate! :) On that alone, you’d impress me as intelligent. If you also seemed kind and funny, I’d really enjoy your company. (Gaming, well, you’d have to teach me about that). Let’s see, cleanliness is important, basic good manners, but you know this, right?

There’s more that goes into a successful relationship, of course, but I think we’re up to possible attraction now, and it would have a lot to do with how we got along. I swear.
You're attracted to text. Reality is quite different.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Veneer.


It's not a veneer; it's real legitimate improvements to your appearance. I guess it's a veneer masking the fact that you`re such a fucking downer. But on a purely physical level, making small improvements to your appearance is as real as it gets.

[tdn]

Veneer.
No. Deep.

No one is asking you to fake a single thing. What you need to do is unleash your authentic inner awesome. Trust me, it's in there. You just don't believe it yet. I hope someday you do.

As I said before, I'm not. I'm just realistic about this. Wishing doesn't make it so.

Egads, you are so like I was 20 years ago! No, you are not being realistic. You're trolling for sympathy. I know, I've been there. I lived the lifestyle, and I fucking invented the t-shirt. I know what it's like to wallow in self-pity. There's an odd sort of comfort that comes from it. But it's a prison of your own making.

I know what it's like to say "I'm just being realistic." Your need to be right trumps your need to be happy, and if you could just convince the world of how right you are, we could all be miserable together. No thanks. I will never live that life again.

[Baby Driver]

Wow, that's trying at great lengths? 'Aw cmon, cheer up'? Please. It's very easy for people who are on the shore to shout encouragement to those who are still drowning.

tdn's post #78. Man can hardly say fairer (at least on a message board).


Originally posted by hotflungwok
I already talked about this. If you attractive people, you are attractive. If you don't you're not. I don't, so I'm not

I can't tell what you're replying to in my post. Seems after this sequence of posts, the only thing that can be said that would hopefully be accepted is good luck.

Good luck!

[tdn]

I am indeed. I don’t think your self-esteem is high enough. :)

Oh, you are so sweet! But if you really cared, you'd e-mail me pictures of your boobs.

[tdn]

tdn's post #78. Man can hardly say fairer (at least on a message board).

Thanks! :)

[hotflungwok]

I guess it's a veneer masking the fact that you`re such a fucking downer.
:rolleyes: How dare I suggest that unattractive people exist. Please. I'm sorry my reality conflicts with your perception.

[hotflungwok]

No, you are not being realistic. You're trolling for sympathy. I know, I've been there. I lived the lifestyle, and I fucking invented the t-shirt. I know what it's like to wallow in self-pity. There's an odd sort of comfort that comes from it. But it's a prison of your own making.
Sigh. You really think I'm just trying to get sympathy? Fine. I've said my bit, as my experience has taught me. I'm sorry it conflicts with what other people think on here. I certainly wouldn't want people to think that I'm just looking for pity. I'm done.

[tdn]

Sigh. You really think I'm just trying to get sympathy? Fine. I've said my bit, as my experience has taught me. I'm sorry it conflicts with what other people think on here. I certainly wouldn't want people to think that I'm just looking for pity. I'm done.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I sincerely wish you a brighter future. Good luck!

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

:rolleyes: How dare I suggest that unattractive people exist. Please. I'm sorry my reality conflicts with your perception.

I didn`t say unattractive people don`t exist. I said it's very realistic to improve your appearance if you're interested in trying and more importantly that there are a lot of people out there who're more interested in your personality and your disposition. I think you should improve both.

But that's not even why I called you a downer. I called you a downer because you haven`t said even one positive thing in the entire thread. Do you happen to live in a little stick lean-to that collapses when butterflies land on it?

[tdn]

Do you happen to live in a little stick lean-to that collapses when butterflies land on it?

I think I built that place. I should be collecting rent!

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

do you happen to live in a little stick lean-to that collapses when butterflies land on it?

are you calling me fat?!?

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

are you calling me fat?!?

oh that's adorable.

I was calling him Eeyore, by the way, in case my clever joke has wooshed everyone. I should have said "are you a donkey stuffed with sawdust with a tail prone to falling off" but I do like to be subtle.

[tdn]

are you calling me fat?!?

No baby, you look great! It's just those pants that make you look that way. Actually, it's your entire wardrobe.

Have you considered raising your standards and shopping at Goodwill?

[Dung Beetle]

Oh, you are so sweet! But if you really cared, you'd e-mail me pictures of your boobs.

Whoa, I never realized cameras could squint! :D

[tdn]

Whoa, I never realized cameras could squint! :D

That's not a squint, that's steam.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

No baby, you look great! It's just those pants that make you look that way. Actually, it's your entire wardrobe.

Have you considered raising your standards and shopping at Goodwill?

And how is it that some woman hasn't snatched you up!?

[tdn]

And how is it that some woman hasn't snatched you up!?

They keep trying, but teasing you is way more fun.

[The Understander]

I’d really like to see some of you “ugly” people. I can’t believe all you fun, witty posters are actually a bunch of gargoyles.

Whoa now, let's not be hasty. I have a habit of encountering already-otherwise-engaged (figuratively and literally) women... but I think I'm fairly cute. I just fail at luck.

Stupid dice.

[tdn]

They keep trying, but teasing you is way more fun.

On reflection, that was probably a little harsh. I apologize. It was meant in good fun, not as an insult.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

On reflection, that was probably a little harsh. I apologize. It was meant in good fun, not as an insult.

Oh I know that, no worries! If I was fat it might sting, but then again if I was fat I'd have been foolish to *start* with the teasing about it. Plus, if my bank account could talk it would tell you that it *wishes* I'd shop at Goodwill ;)

I thought it was funny, so no worries.

[tdn]

OK, good! I was feeling a little bad about it. Even though I know you're in great shape, I know that a lot of women have body issues, so I think it's best to shy away from that sort of teasing.

Height is fair game, though. And I love short women!

[Loach]

As someone who is newly single after many years, I have no idea how to read women anymore.

To be honest I was never very good at it.

[tdn]

Whoa now, let's not be hasty. I have a habit of encountering already-otherwise-engaged (figuratively and literally) women... but I think I'm fairly cute. I just fail at luck.

Stupid dice.

I've made a few of observations that you guys may find interesting or helpful.

For one, when I was horrible at this stuff, I was amazed at how many women had boyfriends. "Oh, that's sweet, but I have a boyfriend" was something that I heard all the time. When I started adopting a better attitude, suddenly fewer and fewer women were attached. The Stupid dice started changing into Lucky dice. I had an experience a few weeks ago where I saw a certain very cute woman several times a week. She always made it a point to say hello, even when it was inconvenient for her to do so. I finally decided to talk to her and find out who she is. As it turns out she owns a house, and oh yeah, something about a roommate, and oh yeah, he's been living in the house for yada yada mumble mumble. I think she was trying to hide that she has a boyfriend! Now, I have no interest in breaking up relationships. I won't go down that path. But isn't it interesting that the number of women in relationships goes down as your confidence goes up?

For another thing, a lot of guys say "I want women to love me for who I am" or "I don't want to manipulate women just to get them to like me." Well guess what? When you don't do the inner work on yourself, you are NOT who you really are, and you already ARE manipulating women. Working on this stuff is a path to authenticity, and that's a powerful aphrodesiac. A woman of quality can tell when you're faking it.

If you haven't learned this stuff and you try talking to women, you come off as trying to take something from them. When you've got your life together, every interaction that you have is a gift to them. It's like handing out ice cream on a hot day.

I've read on this board that the only women pathetic enough to fall for this stuff must have really low self-esteem. No! When you get this stuff, you start to learn to weed out the women who are going to be bad for you. You start to feel like you deserve the type of women that feel like they deserve the best.

Lastly, since getting this stuff is not really about getting chicks but being the best version of you that you can be, you'll start to see every other area of your life improve. Your job, your friendships, your family relationships, and your overall happiness will skyrocket.

I hope that was useful. I'm loving life right now. :)

[Sunspace]

Damn, tdn. That was good.

:: prints out and saves post #120, and also post #78 ::

[tdn]

Thanks! :)

[The Tao's Revenge]

I've made a few of observations that you guys may find interesting or helpful.

For one, when I was horrible at this stuff, I was amazed at how many women had boyfriends. "Oh, that's sweet, but I have a boyfriend" was something that I heard all the time. When I started adopting a better attitude, suddenly fewer and fewer women were attached. The Stupid dice started changing into Lucky dice. I had an experience a few weeks ago where I saw a certain very cute woman several times a week. She always made it a point to say hello, even when it was inconvenient for her to do so. I finally decided to talk to her and find out who she is. As it turns out she owns a house, and oh yeah, something about a roommate, and oh yeah, he's been living in the house for yada yada mumble mumble. I think she was trying to hide that she has a boyfriend! Now, I have no interest in breaking up relationships. I won't go down that path. But isn't it interesting that the number of women in relationships goes down as your confidence goes up?

For another thing, a lot of guys say "I want women to love me for who I am" or "I don't want to manipulate women just to get them to like me." Well guess what? When you don't do the inner work on yourself, you are NOT who you really are, and you already ARE manipulating women. Working on this stuff is a path to authenticity, and that's a powerful aphrodesiac. A woman of quality can tell when you're faking it.

If you haven't learned this stuff and you try talking to women, you come off as trying to take something from them. When you've got your life together, every interaction that you have is a gift to them. It's like handing out ice cream on a hot day.

I've read on this board that the only women pathetic enough to fall for this stuff must have really low self-esteem. No! When you get this stuff, you start to learn to weed out the women who are going to be bad for you. You start to feel like you deserve the type of women that feel like they deserve the best.

Lastly, since getting this stuff is not really about getting chicks but being the best version of you that you can be, you'll start to see every other area of your life improve. Your job, your friendships, your family relationships, and your overall happiness will skyrocket.

I hope that was useful. I'm loving life right now. :)

....

....

Wow.

I'm going to set google calendar to show me this post everyday. It just crystallized ideas and things about this I'd been struggling with for months, and showed me the way. Thanks :)

[Covered_In_Bees!]

tdn, you have a private message good sir.

Tao's Revenge: Don't you already know all that? ;)

[tdn]

I'm going to set google calendar to show me this post everyday. It just crystallized ideas and things about this I'd been struggling with for months, and showed me the way. Thanks :)

Awesome! Maybe some day I'll teach this stuff. I think that's many years off, though.

[The Tao's Revenge]

tdn, you have a private message good sir.

Tao's Revenge: Don't you already know all that? ;)

No I've been described as an outsider looking in, is apt description if I ever heard one. ;)

Knowing and understanding are different things. I knew alot of stuff, but now I understand why it applies and why the direction I was going was kinda wrong and kinda right.

I took a break from the dating world to understand myself, and respect myself. Aside from a geek chick who turned out to "have a boyfriend" I had few interests during this time. This was a good direction, but what was a bad direction was the way inwhich I went about it. I let myself slip back into my natural vices. For example shyness and social awkwardness are natural parts of me, why should I change? It would be UnNatural(tm) to be anything else, or so I figured.

The mistake of that is respecting myself means pushing myself to improve, not letting myself go. That drive to make myself more then I was has been a part of me for many years. It has come to define me.

Trying to improve my attractiveness was part of that drive. I did it for me. I liked being desirable. During my long walk in the woods I questioned whether it was really me. "Am I wearing this because I like it or cause it looks good according to my improved fashion sense?". Ultimately I can never understand nor respect myself by ignoring that drive.

Also I hated the idea of it being a process. I thought maybe I could reject the rules. I have a habit of breaking rules and getting away with it, by either being very good intentioned and/or very entertaining while doing it*. However this isn't one of those breakable rules. Atleast not yet.

I must return to that drive to improve, or stagnate.

[tdn]

I must return to that drive to improve, or stagnate.

Exactly!

Life is growth. Without growth, life closely resembles death.

[Sunspace]

But isn't it interesting that the number of women in relationships goes down as your confidence goes up?I've been thinking a lot about the nature of confidence, and how to acquire it. It's not something that can be faked; that just comes across as a brittle surface layer of bravado that has nothing to back it up if it's punctured. Confidence is inner certainty born of experience.

So how does one acquire confidence? Through little steps, one after the other, in the desired direction, with small successes one after the other.

For instance, thanks to a storm bringing down streetcar wires this morning and insufficient communications, there was confusion on the streetcars and buses near where I live. I ended up helping two pretty Filipina women find the way to where they were going. And an exceedingly cute white woman--brunette, big eyes and elfin features--joined us as well. We found the way to where we were going, and meeting them made me feel better all day. Evidently I'm not as much of a troll as I feel like sometimes.

Interestingly, I noticed that the third woman felt okay to speak with me only after she saw me speaking to the first two women. For another thing, a lot of guys say "I want women to love me for who I am" or "I don't want to manipulate women just to get them to like me." Well guess what? When you don't do the inner work on yourself, you are NOT who you really are, and you already ARE manipulating women. Working on this stuff is a path to authenticity, and that's a powerful aphrodesiac. A woman of quality can tell when you're faking it.Somebody said, "Be yourself. But be the best of all your possible selves."If you haven't learned this stuff and you try talking to women, you come off as trying to take something from them. When you've got your life together, every interaction that you have is a gift to them. It's like handing out ice cream on a hot day.This is important. If you can imagine yourself as being able to give something of value, rather than always almost being in a begging position psychologically, that's a huge change. And it's so difficult for many people to do this, who grew up thinking of themselves as unworthy worms. But little steps, little steps...I've read on this board that the only women pathetic enough to fall for this stuff must have really low self-esteem. No! When you get this stuff, you start to learn to weed out the women who are going to be bad for you. You start to feel like you deserve the type of women that feel like they deserve the best.

Lastly, since getting this stuff is not really about getting chicks but being the best version of you that you can be, you'll start to see every other area of your life improve. Your job, your friendships, your family relationships, and your overall happiness will skyrocket.Emphatic agreement.

[tdn]

Somebody said, "Be yourself. But be the best of all your possible selves."
Or transform into your best stuff.

Isn't there some parable about a poor man who spent his whole like sitting on a chest full of gold?

This is important. If you can imagine yourself as being able to give something of value, rather than always almost being in a begging position psychologically, that's a huge change.

Yes. It's about having an attitude of abundance instead of one of scarcity. If you think there's not enough (of anything, not just love) to go around, you start to act in ways that are self-destructive. You act jealous and insecure, or greedy. If you have a scarcity of good feelings, you'll try to take them from others. But if you're overflowing with good feelings, you can afford to give them away like lolipops.

[tdn]

:rolleyes:

Or transform into your best self.

Isn't there some parable about a poor man who spent his whole life sitting on a chest full of gold?

And for God's sake, learn how to type!

[The Understander]

tdn, that right there is some great advice, and it really speaks to where I am right now. Getting the girl is not as important as getting the good life--family, friendship, career, activity... I've always liked a line in Luther Vandross' Don't Want To Be a Fool:

Originally posted by One Soulful Brother
And if I don't find nobody, then that will be all right with me.

I think that's really a helpful attitude to have, though I'd just add the word 'too' at the end of that, because let's face it there's a reason a lot of us (guys and girls included) make fools out of ourselves for even a chance at romantic love... it's damn nice when it works! But if you aren't able to live a fulfilled life... even what you do find can turn sour quickly.

[tdn]

Oh I know that, no worries! If I was fat it might sting, but then again if I was fat I'd have been foolish to *start* with the teasing about it. Plus, if my bank account could talk it would tell you that it *wishes* I'd shop at Goodwill ;)

I thought it was funny, so no worries.

I forgive you.

If this goes great, one of us is going to have to change our user names. I refuse to change mine to "Butterflies."

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

I forgive you.

If this goes great, one of us is going to have to change our user names. I refuse to change mine to "Butterflies."

That's never going to be necessary.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

That's never going to be necessary.

If you sleep with butterflies, wouldn't you wake up with a bunch of the poor flutterers squished and stuck to your face and other exposed parts of skin?

Just askin'. :)

How lame does it make me that I actually laughed out loud at the mental image of someone waking up with a bunch of butterflies stuck to them?

[tdn]

That's never going to be necessary.

Thank GOD! It was starting to feel like a freakin' wedding band! I love that you let me have my freedom.

[tdn]

Is it at all telling that this thread has considerably more responses than the sister thread asking for the ladies' opins?

Yes, come to think of it. This thread has tons of learning in it. I'm getting massive emotional nourishment here. Anyone else? Is this fantastic or what?

[tdn]

I just got a newsletter in my inbox this morning. I haven't finished reading it it yet, but this part caught my eye:

We are what we constantly think and do.

By the way, this has massive applications beyond
your inner game as well, it will help you become
attractive and get a quality woman as well in the
sense that a quality woman wants a man who
has CONVICTION and PASSION with regard
to integrity, honesty, etc, so you can also surround
yourself with messages that HIGHLIGHT these
things as well, which will make you become
the living EMBODIMENT of not only confidence,
but also INTEGRITY.

And like attracts like, so this will attract the same
kind of woman.


This guy blows my mind.

[Sunspace]

I just got a newsletter in my inbox this morning. I haven't finished reading it it yet, but this part caught my eye....Just reiterating that 'surrounding oneself with messages' is all very well, but the messages have to arise naturally from what is within.

Actually, I guess that we always surround ourselves with messages. Only by changing what is within do we change the messages without.

Now I want to go out and get a new wardrobe. I'm not fitting very well into my existing one anymore.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

Thank GOD! It was starting to feel like a freakin' wedding band! I love that you let me have my freedom.

Is this part of the dating technique?

Part 2: Insist there is something there even when there is nothing!

[tdn]

Is this part of the dating technique?

Part 2: Insist there is something there even when there is nothing!

No. That was more a personal learning for my own benefit. One thing that's been a problem for me is accepting defeat too easily and taking it too personally. I think there were a lot of times in my life when I'd interpret things negatively when I really didn't need to. So this idea of turning things around and keeping them fun is an important skill for me to nurture.

So joking around with you was really good for me. Thank you! You've been awesome.