Non-stereotypically manly professions?

[Serenata67]

A conversation in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11318434#post11318434)about the manliness of chefs got me thinking. What professions are manly when you really think about it, but aren't the stereotypical "manly" professions? What makes them "manly?"

No firefighters, construction workers, police or anything that would appear in the Village People's line-up. I want you buggers to think!



I'm putting chefs on this list. Using knives and other tools that have the ability to maim or cripple, ability to deal with heat (and getting burned), quick reflexes, dexterity, ability to handle multiple items at once and turn them all out with perfection... I think it's pretty manly. Not to mention the sense of humor that thrives in kitchens. Those are some of the manliest senses of humor I've ever heard!

[gotpasswords]

Tailors.

You don't see all that many women making suits, and when you go to the suit shop and need some alterations, it's rare for a woman to assist - it always seems to be a short balding Greek man.

Then there are the tailors making things like custom motorcycle leathers. All of the tools are amped up from "normal" sewing. There's a lot of big sharp knives ready and willing to cut off a finger, (took about two years for my fingertip to grow back fully) plus hammers and mallets, and if you're in a large-scale or high-end shop, there will be big hydraulic power tools with immense capacity to maim or drag you in. Even the sewing machines are waiting to snag an errant finger and sew right through.

[VunderBob]

I've never met a female clockmaker. That goes for watch repair people, too.

[MeanOldLady]

Tailors.

You don't see all that many women making suits, and when you go to the suit shop and need some alterations, it's rare for a woman to assist - it always seems to be a short balding Greek man.See, when I think of alterations, I immediately think of a seamstress, who is female.

[Shagnasty]

Tailors.

There are also a number of top fashion designers who are pretty manly straight males. Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, and Calvin Klein are among the most well know and wealthiest but there are lots of others too. Males don't dominate the profession but they do tend to be among the most successful. If you include gay males, the list gets much longer.

[Jettboy]

Auto mechanics. My older brother is a mechanic/custom car builder and has the scars, callouses and busted-up knuckles to prove it; the cat spends his days up to his elbows in grease, gas and steel. Muy macho.

[Cyn]

Nurses.
Triage ER nurses are a manly as they come. The take-charge, who's-your-daddy, let's-kick-death's-ass-types don't seem like nurses because Hollywood has a hate on for men who nurse. Is America not ready to see a man portrayed as more than one thing? Smart AND strong AND decisive AND tough AND compassionate ?

Cyn, RN, who is too much of a candy ass for the ER

[tdn]

Auto mechanics. My older brother is a mechanic/custom car builder and has the scars, callouses and busted-up knuckles to prove it; the cat spends his days up to his elbows in grease, gas and steel. Muy macho.

Yeah, but stereotypically so.

[QuercusMax]

Sysadmin/DBA. I'd go with techy-types in general, but I work with a fair number of female programmers. The sysadmins and DBAs are almost universally male. Not exactly a "macho" job (although lifting servers can take some muscle), though.

[SmellMyWort]

Nurses.
Triage ER nurses are a manly as they come. The take-charge, who's-your-daddy, let's-kick-death's-ass-types don't seem like nurses because Hollywood has a hate on for men who nurse. Is America not ready to see a man portrayed as more than one thing? Smart AND strong AND decisive AND tough AND compassionate ?

Cyn, RN, who is too much of a candy ass for the ER

In a similar vein...mental institution orderly. At least in the movies, there always seems to be a team of (often black) guys ready to throw someone into a straightjacket.

[Crafter_Man]

Mathematician.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

It's not a profession per se, but one that's sort of obvious: criminal.

[Argent Towers]

How is that "non-stereotypically manly?" A lot of the greatest folk heroes of all time have been criminals, from Robin Hood to John Dillinger to Tupac Shakur. And it's always seen as a manly thing to do anything illegal, since it takes courage "balls" to break the law.

I think the OP is asking for jobs that, at first, you might not associate with "manliness," but on deeper analysis, have many macho attributes. Cook and chef is an excellent example. Cooking in the home has always been thought of as a woman's territory, but cooking outside of the home has always been basically a blue-collar occupation requiring a lot of hard physical labor.

[Northern Piper]

criminal trial lawyers. it's a street fight without the knives. :p

[Argent Towers]

Real estate salesmen, if you believe Glengarry Glen Ross anyway.

[Serenata67]

I think the OP is asking for jobs that, at first, you might not associate with "manliness," but on deeper analysis, have many macho attributes. Cook and chef is an excellent example. Cooking in the home has always been thought of as a woman's territory, but cooking outside of the home has always been basically a blue-collar occupation requiring a lot of hard physical labor.

That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for professions that are preformed predominantly by men. I'm looking for ones that if you were talking to a guy at a party and he said, "I'm a ___" you'd laugh at him and call him a pansy. Then he'd explain why doing that job makes him more manly than you, Mr. Construction Worker. Or at least as manly.

Nurse was great, as was tailor/designer. It takes a manly to know what a manly man wants to wear.

Another one I thought of today was Elementary School teacher. Most people think of women doing it, that motherly thing, but I think it takes a lot of toughness to wrangle munchkins all day. Patience, of course, but sometimes pure strength and firmness are needed.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for professions that are preformed predominantly by men. I'm looking for ones that if you were talking to a guy at a party and he said, "I'm a ___" you'd laugh at him and call him a pansy. Then he'd explain why doing that job makes him more manly than you, Mr. Construction Worker. Or at least as manly.

Nurse was great, as was tailor/designer. It takes a manly to know what a manly man wants to wear.

Another one I thought of today was Elementary School teacher. Most people think of women doing it, that motherly thing, but I think it takes a lot of toughness to wrangle munchkins all day. Patience, of course, but sometimes pure strength and firmness are needed.

I suppose the ideas that toughness, pure strength, and resolve could be womanly attributes is just too ridiculous to entertain.

You and Argent Towers have fun playing "22-Year-Old Kids Who Like to Pretend They Live in Victorian England Talk About Manly Virtues" But you'll have to count me out: I never was a big fan of that game to begin with. Maybe Ross Douthat can take my place?

[Brainiac]

My great grandfather was a tailor, a job now mostly done by third world women.

[Serenata67]

I suppose the ideas that toughness, pure strength, and resolve could be womanly attributes is just too ridiculous to entertain.

You and Argent Towers have fun playing "22-Year-Old Kids Who Like to Pretend They Live in Victorian England Talk About Manly Virtues" But you'll have to count me out: I never was a big fan of that game to begin with. Maybe Ross Douthat can take my place?

I'm not saying women aren't tough or strong. I'm the one in my household who fixes broken drains, manages the finances, knows what a Dremmel is and how to use it. We're talking stereotypes in this thread and challenging them.

We're talking about the stereotypes surrounding the occupations and busting through them. A man can be a great nurse, teacher, chef, etc. and these are possible reasons why those jobs would be "manly."

I'm all about equal rights. Women are just as good as men. I'm not about unequal rights... women are better than men.

Hey, how about you and I burn our bras and use them to set fire to one of the many, manly and oh-so-dated Boy Scouts troop meetings?

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

Hey, how about you and I burn our bras ...

Man oh Manischewitz, doesn't anybody read my profile?

[Argent Towers]

1. You come into the thread making a baffling post: "It's not a profession per se, but one that's sort of obvious: criminal." In no way whatsoever does this fit the OP's inquiry about "non-stereotypically manly professions." I don't know what you meant by this; I can't make heads or tails of it, honestly. Maybe you were trying to make a joke or a point of some kind - I don't know.

2. I rebuke your assertion, which was very baffling to begin with; I offer some reasoning as to why; I try to explain (to you) what the OP was looking for. OP posts in complete agreement with what I said.

3. You bite back with some defensive rhetoric, professing outrage at what is being discussed here (in other words, a centuries-old and unchanged definition of "manliness" that is almost universally understood) and then a snide, bizarre comment which more or less amounts to an insult to both myself and OP.

4. You act surprised and annoyed that someone did not go to the trouble of reading your profile and assumed you were female, despite having a female name as your username. (Hey, I've got an ace tip: if you don't want people to assume you're female, don't use a woman's name as your username.)

In conclusion: where the fuck do you get off acting like this?

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

in other words, a centuries-old and unchanged definition of "manliness" that is almost universally understood

This idea is, to coin a phrase, complete and utter bullshit, and I challenge you to prove up each element of your sweeping claim.

(Hey, I've got an ace tip: if you don't want people to assume you're female, don't use a woman's name as your username.)


Funny, from your carefully cultivated atavistic politics, I would have supposed that you would have been more familiar with the works of Rudyard Kipling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_%28novel%29).

[Argent Towers]

You can say whatever you want. At the end of the day, "manly" is still going to mean the same thing. I know your kind - I went to college, you know. I'm very impressed that you're daring to challenge the status quo. I'm in awe of your tireless efforts to break down the old walls of patriarchy and everything, and your rapier wit. Really, in awe. Bravo! You win the day!

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

You can say whatever you want. At the end of the day, "manly" is still going to mean the same thing. I know your kind - I went to college, you know. I'm very impressed that you're daring to challenge the status quo. I'm in awe of your tireless efforts to break down the old walls of patriarchy and everything, and your rapier wit. Really, in awe. Bravo! You win the day!

Finally, the recognition I deserve. Anyway, you embarrass me with your effusive praise--Enough! The pleasure was all mine, A.T.

[Busy Scissors]

Jockeys? I know sports are generally seen as manly, but jockeys have to be low down on the list of perceived macho sportsmen. Wee men poncing about in colourful pajamas, playing with ponies. Reality is that it's a rough sport that takes great durability and grit to be successful at, particularly over the fences.

[Eats_Crayons]

Cobblers. Every image (usually a drawing of some kind) depicting cobblers has them working in conditions that makes them look like blacksmiths. When I think "making shoes" the image of a manly man does not spring to mind, but "cobbler"? Now there is a serious manly worker who will take the thickest leather and beat it into supple submission so it will form a rugged boot.

[Serenata67]

Man oh Manischewitz, doesn't anybody read my profile?

I read your profile before posting that... and no where on there does it say you're a man. It says under occupation "I'm no lady." I know a lot of women who wouldn't qualify to being called a "lady." And with your proto-feminist slant (or perhaps it should be modified to read anti-masculine slant) and feminine screen name, I took it that you were female, just not the classy kind (hence not being a lady).

I'm so sorry. I should have known what you meant by the two cryptic sentences on your profile. I'm working on that mind reading thing, but so far I haven't had much success. :P

[Baby Driver]

Tailors.

True, dat! Cite: American Pastoral by Phillip Roth.

Vunderbob, misread "clockmaker" as...something else :o

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

How about music conductors? Not apparently macho, but I know of women who swoon over a local conductor, and I can see why: the masterful control of complex beauty, done with vigor and grace.

[kayaker]

A conversation in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11318434#post11318434)about the manliness of chefs got me thinking.

Ummmm. . .in my defense, I was kidding. The thread was about guys crying. I am a guy, and I love to cook. One taste of my Frittata in the morning is all a woman needs to forget about her second thoughts on having stayed the night!:D

[Serenata67]

Ummmm. . .in my defense, I was kidding. The thread was about guys crying. I am a guy, and I love to cook. One taste of my Frittata in the morning is all a woman needs to forget about her second thoughts on having stayed the night!:D

I know you were kidding... it was a joking, sarcastic thread. But nonetheless, it really got me thinking. I used to poke fun at my fiancee because he is a chef... then I realized just how manly that is! He's more manly (and more secure in his manhood) that pretty much any man I've ever had a serious relationship with.

[Ludovic]

Cobblers.

No, seriously, they really are manly! Oh, you meant the profession. Buncha Gareths

[whole bean]

Finally, the recognition I deserve. Anyway, you embarrass me with your effusive praise--Enough! The pleasure was all mine, A.T.

Uh, the book you referenced is called Kim, not "Kimmy." And your username isn't just "Kimmy" it's "Kimmy_Gibbler." Far as I can tell, your username has jack to do with the works of Rudyard Kippling and everything to do with the works of Jeff Franklin and Andrea Barber. Not that you care what I think, but you're a good contributor to these boards. You're knowledgeable and witty, but every now and then you can come across as a bit of a queen.

Off topic a bit and not to poke both sides here, but Argent, from previous threads, I got the impression you finished your Associate's degree recently, in others, you said you had a B.A. Just curious, which is it?

[Ludovic]

And your username isn't just "Kimmy" it's "Kimmy_Gibbler."

I'ts not Kimmy Gobbler? :smack: (I know it's not but I keep reading it as that. But I did assume Kimmy was a male.)

[whole bean]

I'ts not Kimmy Gobbler? :smack: (I know it's not but I keep reading it as that. But I did assume Kimmy was a male.)

no, that's a character from the inspired adult film Full Mouth

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

[mod hat on]
Argent Towers and Kimmy_Gibbler: how about if the two of you take a deep breath and back off a bit?
[mod hat off]

[slitterst]

Dancers. Sure, you can laugh about their tights and loose shirts, but not only lifting those girls all performance long, but throwing them? And doing it eight hours a day in rehearsal, over and over and over again? If guys would just sit down and think about what modern dance and ballet entails, there would be far more straight men getting into dance.

In that vein -- Choreographers. Not only do you have to have all the skills I mentioned above, you've got to have a strong enough personality to control all those artistes while teaching them something that only exists in your head.

Phebotomists. When my daughter needed blood drawn in her second day of life, these two linebackers came into the room to hold her down while they used a tiny needle to find her teeny-tiny vein. It's not just about knowing how to use the needle, it's about having the power to restrain someone who may be fidgety about that needle piercing their skin.

[Rocketeer]

Auto upholstery ("trimming") is a predominantly masculine profession. Don't think I've ever seen a female auto upholsterer.

[Argent Towers]

Off topic a bit and not to poke both sides here, but Argent, from previous threads, I got the impression you finished your Associate's degree recently, in others, you said you had a B.A. Just curious, which is it?

I got a B.A. in history, from Indiana University. (Where did I ever say I had an Associate's degree?)

[elmwood]

Cobblers. Every image (usually a drawing of some kind) depicting cobblers has them working in conditions that makes them look like blacksmiths. When I think "making shoes" the image of a manly man does not spring to mind, but "cobbler"? Now there is a serious manly worker who will take the thickest leather and beat it into supple submission so it will form a rugged boot.

Was just about to post that. In my old neighborhood in Cleveland, there were several shoe repair stores, most operated not just by men, but by Russian men.

[Serenata67]

Dancers. Sure, you can laugh about their tights and loose shirts, but not only lifting those girls all performance long, but throwing them? And doing it eight hours a day in rehearsal, over and over and over again? If guys would just sit down and think about what modern dance and ballet entails, there would be far more straight men getting into dance.

In that vein -- Choreographers. Not only do you have to have all the skills I mentioned above, you've got to have a strong enough personality to control all those artistes while teaching them something that only exists in your head.

Phebotomists. When my daughter needed blood drawn in her second day of life, these two linebackers came into the room to hold her down while they used a tiny needle to find her teeny-tiny vein. It's not just about knowing how to use the needle, it's about having the power to restrain someone who may be fidgety about that needle piercing their skin.

That's a great one.

[Bites When Provoked]

Fretworkers, wood carvers and woodworkers in general.



Also, mimes and clowns. Not so much 'manly' as 'male-dominated', that one.

[msmith537]

Real estate salesmen, if you believe Glengarry Glen Ross anyway.

Interestingly, IRL I associate real estate sales with women.


Traders / investment bankers, stockbrokers and other finance types tend to be stereotypically manly. Think Wall Street, Boiler Room, American Psycho and so on.

[Serenata67]

Interestingly, IRL I associate real estate sales with women.


Traders / investment bankers, stockbrokers and other finance types tend to be stereotypically manly. Think Wall Street, Boiler Room, American Psycho and so on.

I work for a bank and I don't know a single female investment banker.

[whole bean]

I got a B.A. in history, from Indiana University. (Where did I ever say I had an Associate's degree?)

Maybe nowhere. I could have a crappy memory. Carry on and congratulations (I think it was failry recent - if not, nevermind, no snark intended, merely curious).

[rivulus]

Dancers. Sure, you can laugh about their tights and loose shirts, but not only lifting those girls all performance long, but throwing them? And doing it eight hours a day in rehearsal, over and over and over again? If guys would just sit down and think about what modern dance and ballet entails, there would be far more straight men getting into dance.Along those lines, how about pairs figure skaters? Like dancing, but on ice. Lifts, plus triple axels.

[Ludovic]

Dancing also works in reverse: a profession whose members do not portray the supposedly feminine characteristics they supposedly do.

I refer specifically to the implication that female dancers are thin, slight, and fragile. They surely are thinner than average, but that's all muscle.