Jews and the slave trade

[SomeBodyUK]

I was talking to a friend of a friend yesterday and he said that Jews were heavily involved in the transatlantic slave trade. What's the truth guys?

[Jeff]

Well this certainly isn't a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all.

[FinnAgain]

The truth is that your FoaF is absolutely wrong.

It is in this context that Eli Faber wrote his scholarly book on the participation of Jews in the slave trade and slavery. He has provided the basic numbers that can be established on the relation between Jews and African slaves in the English and Dutch colonial worlds. His major finding is that Jews had a minuscule role in the slave trade and played only a minor role as slave owners wherever they resided in the New World. Of course, knowledgeable historians could have predicted the results of the book, given the circumscribed role of the Jews within European and American societies from the 15th through the 18th century. As Faber shows, the Jews were not a major factor in any international trade in the Anglo-Saxon world, except possibly the diamond trade. They were also not significant as planters or slave owning farmers, except possibly in Surinam. To the extent that they owned slaves they tended to own fewer slaves on average than their non-Jewish peers. A dozen or so participated in some aspect of the Atl antic slave trade to 1800, with only about half a dozen being serious traders, and even this group moved a very tiny fraction of the total Africans brought to America. The largest group of Jewish slave traders in the British Empire, and the only ones who systematically engaged in the African trade over a long period were the three or four Rhode Island Jewish merchants who in total controlled less than 10% of the voyages and less than 10% of the slaves delivered by Rhode Island traders in the 18th century. In turn Rhode Island was one of the minor ports within the English world engaged in the slave trade. Practically no Jews within England engaged in the far larger trades coming from Liverpool, Bristol and London.

That it was necessary for a scholar to provide this much detail on this issue, tells us more about our own society than it does about the Jews and Africans in this period. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2005/is_3_33/ai_61372270/)

[tomndebb]

Well this certainly isn't a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all.As the OP was posted as a straightforward question without any emotionally laden phrases or off the wall accusations, I see no reason to be suspicious of motives and I see no reason to post a commentary on the OP without actually providing any information of substance.

Let us have everyone address the substance of the post and leavce the commentary out of it.

[ /Modding ]

[SomeBodyUK]

Well this certainly isn't a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all.

It's not inflammatory - I have no issues with Jews at all. Actually when this guy said it to me, I said it sounds like bullshit to me.

I thought I'd ask here cos there's so many smart people here

[FinnAgain]

BTW, this is Faber's book (http://books.google.com/books?id=ceC5T4_5e-wC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=jews+slave+trade&source=bl&ots=OKwFf19ibn&sig=RcLlwrZCZ7rHMdvDYS0fGgEGzYE&hl=en&ei=gR9YSvaZIsGktgejl7ndCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9) on Googlebooks. Likewise, Friedmans Jews and the slave trade. (http://books.google.com/books?id=I0ExEzLaX6YC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=jews+slave+trade&source=bl&ots=Fb4Hm3-_IY&sig=nYwjBF3de9xoc9kNQpTxURD4vsI&hl=en&ei=GSFYSvzVMMOktge31eHdCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7)

In short the notion that Jews were somehow major (or central) players in the slave trade is an urban legend repeated by some and something much darker when used by vile creatures like Farrakhan (or "jewwatch" or stormfront, or what have you).

[Jeff]

It's not inflammatory - I have no issues with Jews at all. Actually when this guy said it to me, I said it sounds like bullshit to me.

I thought I'd ask here cos there's so many smart people here

Apologies, it just struck me as trollish at the time. Or at least more suited for GQ.

(And I'd PM this to you but it looks like yours is disabled? Apologies to tom for more offtopica.)

[The Flying Dutchman]

The slave trade required heavy financing and given the prominent role of the British in the slave trade, Barclays bank (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/apr/01/theobserver.observerbusiness1) comes to mind.

Keep in mind that the slave trade depended on returning cargo from the new world, so how a British financial institution could avoid involvement with the slave trade while financing other Atlantic trade of the time seems rather suspect.

So how were Jews involved in the trade?

Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I'd say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.

What all this means, I don't know. How critical was money controlled by Jews to the slave trade, I don't know as well.

But I don't think we can dismiss Jewish involvement as financiers in the slave trade either.

[FinnAgain]

How critical was money controlled by Jews to the slave trade

While some Jews were investors in certain ventures, they certainly weren't critical investors in general.


But I don't think we can dismiss Jewish involvement as financiers in the slave trade either.

It hasn't been dismissed, it's been pointed out that Jewish involvement with the slave trade was quite minor. Of course it happened, nobody's denying that. And sure Jews invested in/were members of/etc... certain companies that traded in slaves.

[Argent Towers]

So how were Jews involved in the trade?

Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I'd say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.

This is proof of nothing. Gould is an old family name in both England and Germany that does not have any inherent connection to Judaism. Pianist Glenn Gould, for example, is not Jewish nor are any of his ancestors. Bevan is a Welsh name, meaning "son of Evan" and Bening I'm not sure about but I don't think it is Jewish.

[John Mace]

Bevan is a Welsh name, meaning "son of Evan" and Bening I'm not sure about but I don't think it is Jewish.
Son of Ening? :)

[jakesteele]

http://www.angelfire.com/ill/hebrewisrael/jewsandslavery.htm

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=jews+slave+trade&btnG=Google+Search

I typed in jews slavery on Google and the second link is the google page. Most of the sites that looked like they would say Jews were very involved in slavery brings up a WOT screen. It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren't involved," were written by Jews.

The first link appears to be a Jewish web site and says, "yeah, they were heavily involved."

Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, "'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out."

[Tamerlane]

It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren't involved," were written by Jews.

Damn nefarious Jewish academics!

I just read a book on the Seven Years War by a guy with a Hungarian name. He partially trashed Frederick the Great's reputation as a brilliant leader and slightly rehabilitated the Hapsburg war effort. Sadly he did so with numerous cites and a certain degree of thoughtfulness. So much as I'd like to disregard him as an authority, I feel I can't entirely. *sigh*

[Argent Towers]

Look, Jews were involved in EVERY kind of trade, for almost two thousand years. Jews traded every conceivable commodity all throughout Europe and the Middle East, during Roman times, during Medieval times, during the Renaissance, and during the American Revolution. For most of their history Jews who didn't want to starve had two options, usury and trading. This occurred from the lowest levels all the way up to the top. The golden ages of Western civilization couldn't have occurred without Jewish merchants and Jewish moneylenders. So, of course some Jews were involved in the slave trade. They were involved in every trade. So what?

[you with the face]

Even if Jews were involved at disproportionate levels (which I don't know), what the fuck does it matter? That should have been the answer to your friends question, Jeff.

What's with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek)

[FinnAgain]

. It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren't involved," were written by Jews.

Damn those Jew Books with their Jew Facts!
Amirite?


The first link appears to be a Jewish web site and says, "yeah, they were heavily involved."

1. No, it does not appear to be anything of the sort. It is a site that claims that blacks are the real descendants of ancient Israel but actual Jews are not. Among other things.
2. No serious scholar would deny that Jews were involved, because that would be stupid. But the claim was not "Jews weren't involved" but that Jews were't the central/leading figures of the slave trade.


Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, "'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out."

Yah, why try reading to clear up your confusion, especially all those Jew Books?
Much better to commit genocide.

[Argent Towers]

As I've said before, all the radical Afro-centrists who blame the Jews for the slave trade should also be blaming the damn AFRICANS for the slave trade. Who captured and sold the slaves in the first place? It wasn't John James Feathersone-Pembroke Goldberg VII, 3rd Baron Jewbergenstein - it was some African chief with skin black as pitch, who captured other Africans in some tribal war and sold them to a slave trader. Blame HIM also if you're going to blame the Jews.

[elmwood]

What's with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek)

At least this was posted on Shabbat, in compliance with Zev's Law.

[Dr. Crap]

Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, "'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out." Funny, I say the same about people like you.

[Jackmannii]

Apologies, it just struck me as trollish at the time. Or at least more suited for GQ. Yep. In general, when tossing out a highly inflammatory claim (whether you believe it or not) that's bound to be offensive to numerous people, it's best to research it a bit beforehand to see if it's even a debatable proposition.

[Captain Amazing]

Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I'd say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.

Gould and Bevin, at least, were Quakers. Barclays developed out of an organization of gold traders on Lombard Street in London. The gold traders and money lenders of 17th century Lombard Street were almost exclusively Quaker.

[Bryan Ekers]

Let's assume from 1600-1860, as many as fifty Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade.


So what?

[The Flying Dutchman]

Gould and Bevin, at least, were Quakers. Barclays developed out of an organization of gold traders on Lombard Street in London. The gold traders and money lenders of 17th century Lombard Street were almost exclusively Quaker.



The 'Gould" name really threw me off. Elliot Gould really threw me off. He is a Jew you know. And there is a lot of "gold "in Jewish names. I didn't know that even though many Jews bear the name "Gould", it was a result of Anglicizing Jewish names into common English names. Thanks to checking up on Argent Towers claim.

Anyway, I'm fraught with the perception or misperception that Jews were big in the banking industry during those times because of Christian opposition to usury.

[Dog80]

And there is a lot of "gold "in Jewish names.

How about glod?

[Captain Amazing]

Anyway, I'm fraught with the perception or misperception that Jews were big in the banking industry during those times because of Christian opposition to usury.

In the Middle Ages, sure, but the Jews had been expelled from England in 1290, and only let back in in 1655. By the 1260s, Christians had overcome their opposition to usury, and most of the big banking and money lending groups were Christian (at that point, mainly Italian...the Lombards were called "The Bankers of Kings"). There wouldn't be any big Jewish banks until the Rothschilds of the 19th century.

[Captain Amazing]

Bening I'm not sure about but I don't think it is Jewish.


It's a German name, from the German first name Behn.

[tomndebb]

Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, "'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out." Funny, I say the same about people like you.jakesteele's comment is pretty clearly a sarcastic reference to an old movie cliche aimed at vague, off board persons. Your response looks very much like an effort to turn that into a personal insult aimed at him.

Please refrain from posting anything that could be construed as a death wish against another poster, particularly in Great Debates.

[ /Modding ]

[Damuri Ajashi]

I believe the vast majority of the slave trade from Africa to the New World was conducted and financed by the Boston Brahmin in something called the Triangle Trade. These are the same guys that started schools like Harvard. That's right, Harvard was founded by slave trading money.

[Kobal2]

In the Middle Ages, sure, but the Jews had been expelled from England in 1290, and only let back in in 1655. By the 1260s, Christians had overcome their opposition to usury, and most of the big banking and money lending groups were Christian (at that point, mainly Italian...the Lombards were called "The Bankers of Kings"). There wouldn't be any big Jewish banks until the Rothschilds of the 19th century.

Interestingly, Lombard bankers (well, Italian bankers really - back then, if you were Italian and a moneylender, you were called a Lombard, even if you weren't actually from Lombardia) faced a good deal of smear campaigns and persecutions over the centuries, too. When the Kings want to seize your gold, you can't tell them "you and what army ?".

While I'm no scholar on the subject, I'd bet dollar to donuts that there were Dolchtoß theories about Lombardian bankers any time a crusade came back with its tail between its legs or a financial endeavour of the realm went pear shaped.

[E-Sabbath]

That's right, Harvard was founded by slave trading money.

A fascinating claim. Let's see what happens when we look at it.
Harvard, founded 1636.
Slavery legalized in Massachusetts, 1642.
Harvard was established by the Colony of Massachusetts Bay to train Puritan ministers, and named after a minister who donated his library and half his estate to it on his death.
It remained that way until, at the earliest, 1708.

Might I gently ask where you get your assertion from, because it seems a bit dubious to me. Are you referring to the law school, perhaps? Royall and all that, circa 1785? It seems a bit odd to claim the school itself is founded on something that happened over a hundred years after it was founded.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Semi-devils-advocate post:

1) On the question of whether the proposition is debatable, I'd say that it is. Certainly it's a common idea; I shamefully confess I'd heard it myself and hadn't really questioned it, although I hadn't really thought much about it either way. Finn, thanks for your very informative post on the subject.
2) On the question of "so what?", I think there is a value to knowing what one's ancestors were up to. Moreover, my impression is that Judaism is perhaps the leading religion in the world that's concerned with the history of its people. If it turned out that Jews were primary movers and shakers in the slave trade, I would expect modern Jews to be very concerned with this. Since it seems that they were not, it's not something that I'd expect modern Jews to be much concerned with.

[ivan astikov]

If you are going to pick on Teh Jooz, there are far more recent crimes to accuse them of, if the history of their most representative organisation is anything to go by*.


* Mossad, in case you are wondering. And if I die in an accident, it wasn't really one, I've just pissed off the wrong jew.

[Gyrate]

How about glod?
Although they both wear funny hats and have beards, I suspect you're confusing "Hasidim" with "dwarves".

What's with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek) That'll be Reverend Wright and his "Them Jews" comment from a few weeks back.

[FinnAgain]

I suspect you're confusing "Hasidim" with "dwarves".


Ray, when someone asks if you're a Glod you say "YES!"

Finn, thanks for your very informative post on the subject.

Glad to help. I've (unfortunately enough) read more than I can stomach about Farrakhan, this just sorta came up among the tidbits. What's really interesting is that there were many Jews who fought quite hard for civil rights in America. Some Jews helped create the NAACP (http://www.pbs.org/itvs/fromswastikatojimcrow/relations.html), for instance. The state of relations now is kinda sad.

A disproportionate number of blacks are mildly to ragingly anti-Semitic, schmucks like Farrakhan use vile lies to motivate their 'base' and that ends up spilling over into non NOI folks, just like Al Sharpton has blood on his hands due to his incitement... not to mention the comparatively more mild Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson and Rev. Jeremiah "Them Jews I mean Zionists" Wright.

I believe the expression is 'le sigh'.
Social justice goes hand in hand with Tikun Olam and it's a bitch that stuff like "Jews are responsible for the slave trade is what's talked about instead of "let's march together for justice and peace."

[FinnAgain]

Might as well provide a cite (http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/5159_12.htm) for that assertion. PDF. (http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/poll_2007/Anti-Semitism%20Poll%202007.pdf)

African-Americans

The number of African-Americans with strong anti-Semitic beliefs continued to remain high and stable since 1992. The 2007 survey found that 32% of African-Americans hold strong anti-Semitic beliefs, more than three times more than the 10% for whites. In 1992 it was 37%; 1998 – 34%; 2002- 35%, 2005 – 36%.

In 2007 it was lower among college grads (http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/poll_2007/22.asp)... but still distressingly high at roughly 1 in 5. It was much higher among non college educated blacks.

[Jackmannii]

Well, dang it, every time we're presented with a good reason for anti-Semitism, someone like Finn will come along and shoot it down.

There are just too many answers to the usual stereotypes and tall tales. Obviously, what's needed are new memes. Like Jews are behind efforts to vaccinate our children.

Jews have been backing vaccination for centuries.

See. Even they admit it (http://www.forward.com/articles/10622).

[FinnAgain]

So, pretty much, Jews cause autism?
I knew it.

[villa]

Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I'd say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.


Nye Bevan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Bevan) was Jewish?

[Alessan]

If you are going to pick on Teh Jooz, there are far more recent crimes to accuse them of, if the history of their most representative organisation is anything to go by*.


* Mossad, in case you are wondering. And if I die in an accident, it wasn't really one, I've just pissed off the wrong jew.

What exactly is it that you imagine the Mossad has done?

[Captain Amazing]

Nye Bevan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Bevan) was Jewish?

He was one of those Baptist Jews. They're the worst kind.

[Damuri Ajashi]

A fascinating claim. Let's see what happens when we look at it.
Harvard, founded 1636.
Slavery legalized in Massachusetts, 1642.
Harvard was established by the Colony of Massachusetts Bay to train Puritan ministers, and named after a minister who donated his library and half his estate to it on his death.
It remained that way until, at the earliest, 1708.

Might I gently ask where you get your assertion from, because it seems a bit dubious to me. Are you referring to the law school, perhaps? Royall and all that, circa 1785? It seems a bit odd to claim the school itself is founded on something that happened over a hundred years after it was founded.

I may have been thinking about Brown.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=515322

But Harvard does seem to have benefitted from slave wnership and the slave trade. (see Royall and Cabot).

http://www.thecrimson.com/printerfriendly.aspx?ref=523257

[BrainGlutton]

For most of their history Jews who didn't want to starve had two options, usury and trading.

Well, they could also be artisans -- goldsmiths, etc. -- and professionals -- not lawyers, but doctors for sure. But generally the point holds: At most times and places in Medieval Europe, Jews were not allowed to own land, not even as serfs or tenants, because there was no clear distinction between owning land and ruling it, and a tenant sometimes had subtenants, and a Jewish landowner therefore might conceivably exercise authority over Christians -- unacceptable to the thinking of the time. So they were left with supporting themselves by moneylending (which the Church did not allow Christians to do), commerce, and crafts.

[Captain Amazing]

So they were left with supporting themselves by moneylending (which the Church did not allow Christians to do), commerce, and crafts.

Most of the crafts were under the control of the guilds, and Jews couldn't join guilds.

[FinnAgain]

Except the Freemasons, which is how we came to rule the world unimportant.

[Captain Amazing]

Finn, ixnay on the eemasonfray.

[ElvisL1ves]

That's right, Harvard was founded by slave trading money.
You misspelled "Brown".

[E-Sabbath]

Of course Harvard benefited from the slave trade. The Triangle Trade was very important to the US as a whole. Since slaves were part of it, then the US is founded, in significant parts, on the trading of slaves. And any family that goes back that far and had dealings in trade probably had their fingers involved somewhere. (But only probably and not certainly. Americans are, as a rule, stubborn about ideology, and a number of ideologies at the time were very anti-slavery.)

So... about them jews and the slavery... anything?

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

So... about them jews and the slavery... anything?
Not so much in the US, but they were major participants in the slave trade in Egypt.

[Damuri Ajashi]

Of course Harvard benefited from the slave trade. The Triangle Trade was very important to the US as a whole. Since slaves were part of it, then the US is founded, in significant parts, on the trading of slaves. And any family that goes back that far and had dealings in trade probably had their fingers involved somewhere. (But only probably and not certainly. Americans are, as a rule, stubborn about ideology, and a number of ideologies at the time were very anti-slavery.)

So... about them jews and the slavery... anything?

I think this thread got jacked because the OP's original issue was pretty much resolved by the fourth or fifth response. i.e. aside from Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery, there is nothing particularly jewish about slavetrading.

[Jackmannii]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the allegation that Jews were/are the mainstay of white slavery (I believe this was big on the anti-Semite hit parade a century or so ago).

It's a good thing it got nipped in the bud, otherwise we'd be seeing Hasidics running around in purple outfits and really flashy hats.

[Malthus]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the allegation that Jews were/are the mainstay of white slavery (I believe this was big on the anti-Semite hit parade a century or so ago).

It's a good thing it got nipped in the bud, otherwise we'd be seeing Hasidics running around in purple outfits and really flashy hats.

Well - I know it is not what you are referring to, but it is often forgotten these days that "African slavery" was not a one-way street. There there was also the North African "White Slave Trade", where the various North African statelets made a living from kidnapping Europeans and enslaving them (the "Barbary corsairs"), and in many cases selling them back to their relations. Some Jews were involved in the "selling 'em back to their relations" part of the business, as they could move between the N. African and European worlds with money.

It is surprising to remember that Africans (though admittedly not sub-Saharan Africans!) enslaved over a million Europeans at more or less the same time as Europeans were enslaving millions of Africans. Even the new United States paid tribute to the African slavers, for a time (and developed a fleet for the express purpose of changing this situation).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Slave_Trade

Though "slave redemption" may be a better way of describing some Jews' roles in this business.

[choie]

If you are going to pick on Teh Jooz, there are far more recent crimes to accuse them of, if the history of their most representative organisation is anything to go by*.

* Mossad, in case you are wondering. And if I die in an accident, it wasn't really one, I've just pissed off the wrong jew.

Wait, what? The Mossad is 'their most representative organisation'? Is this true? I don't know any American Jews who feel the Mossad 'represents' them, but perhaps non-Jews feel differently and I'm just in the dark.

Not so much in the US, but they were major participants in the slave trade in Egypt.

Heh. A leben ahf dein kepele!

* 'A long life on your head'. Or, idiomatically: 'well said'.

[Love Rhombus]

So, the assumption here is that the reason there weren't more Jews involved in the slave trade is that they refused on moral grounds? Not that I'm refuting it, I'm just curious. It would be refreshing if true.

[Captain Amazing]

So, the assumption here is that the reason there weren't more Jews involved in the slave trade is that they refused on moral grounds? Not that I'm refuting it, I'm just curious. It would be refreshing if true.

No, I think the reason there weren't more Jews involved in the slave trade was because, by and large, there weren't many Jews in a position to get involved in it.

[sjc]

Wait, what? The Mossad is 'their most representative organisation'? Is this true? I don't know any American Jews who feel the Mossad 'represents' them, but perhaps non-Jews feel differently and I'm just in the dark.

I'm a goy and that confused me too.

[ivan astikov]

What exactly is it that you imagine the Mossad has done?

Every* crime in the alphabet, all in the name of the Jewish state, unless you want me to be specific?

I'm a goy and that confused me too.

Are you saying you don't think they are the most influential organisation in Israel, and that they have no relevance to the rest of the jews in the world?

* Okay, slight hyperbole. I meant almost.

[Love Rhombus]

Every* crime in the alphabet, all in the name of the Jewish state, unless you want me to be specific?

So basically the same as most other intelligence agencies, you mean?

[Malthus]

Every crime in the alphabet, all in the name of the Jewish state, unless you want me to be specific?



Are you saying you don't think they are the most influential organisation in Israel, and that they have no relevance to the rest of the jews in the world?

Yup, world Jewery is defined by the Mossad, who have committed every crime in the alphabet. You got that right.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some Christian babies I wish to bake in my Matzoh. The only question is - does that go under "C", "B" or "M" in the alphabet? :D

[ivan astikov]

So basically the same as most other intelligence agencies, you mean?

Yes, but Mossad aren't so well respected by the rest of the world's security services because they always get the beers in.

And "respect" probably isn't the right word - "feared" would be more appropriate... because they know where all the bodies are hidden, as the saying goes.

[tomndebb]

Are you saying you don't think they are the most influential organisation in Israel, and that they have no relevance to the rest of the jews in the world?As a cheap shot, your earlier Mossad crack fell within the general tolerance of Great Debate practices.

Expanding this to one more Jewish Conspiracy Theory is an out-of-line hijack. If you really intend to defend this line of discussion, take it to a separate thread.

Mossad was not involved in the Atlantic Slave Trade and it has no business in this thread.

[ /Moderating ]

[Alessan]

So I shouldn't answer him, Tom?

[tomndebb]

So I shouldn't answer him, Tom?Not in this thread. You can open a new thread if you wish, then post here with a link.

(You could also look over his posts in a few Conspiracy threads to see whether it is worth your effort.)

[ /Modding ]

[ivan astikov]

Not in this thread. You can open a new thread if you wish, then post here with a link.

(You could also look over his posts in a few Conspiracy threads to see whether it is worth your effort.)

[ /Modding ]

Earlier in the thread you were talking about "leaving the commentary out of it" - do try and be consistent!

[tomndebb]

Earlier in the thread you were talking about "leaving the commentary out of it" - do try and be consistent!I was not using commentary to weight an argument in this thread with ad hominem. I was suggesting an action that would permit another poster to gain information to help decide a course of action.

[ivan astikov]

I was not using commentary to weight an argument in this thread with ad hominem. I was suggesting an action that would permit another poster to gain information to help decide a course of action.

:dubious: So, there's nothing weighted in the words "Conspiracy threads" and "worth your effort"? Okay, that's fair enough, Tom.

[tomndebb]

"Conspiracy threads" is descriptive, nothing more.

"Worth your effort" simply indicates that an evaluation is recommended. The evaluation might very well come back "yes," and I actually don't know how Alessan's evaluation would come back.