What are some tell-tale behaviors of a person trying to score pseudoephedrine to make meth?

[Skald the Rhymer]

Mods: I am not asking how to make meth using pseudoephedrine. I am asking what behaviors might tip off a pharmacist or pharmacy tech that a customer was buying Sudafed or whatever for that purpose, other than attempting to buy in bulk.

Thoughts?

[Auntbeast]

I will relate this story:

I had the flu, bad. I felt like I was dying. I had tried all the OTC sinus stuff but they just weren't effective. One night, after work (I got off at 1am) I went home, changed out of my uniform into I'm-sick-so-comfy-works clothes, crawled to the Walgreens pharmacy and asked for Sudafed, the REAL stuff. I was pale, weak, exhausted, sick and at the end of my sanity.

I've never felt like such a drug seeker in my life. Why they didn't arrest me on site is still a mystery.

I get mystery-migraines, which have been recently tenatively diagnosed as a residual effect of an unrealized spinal cord injury. One of the symptoms is completely fubared sinuses. I've long depended on Sudafed. I have much, much more miserable headaches now. No local groceries or pharmacies carry it and the closest one that does (CVS) are so fucking stupid getting it is impossible, we tried 3 different times over the last several months.

[HeyHomie]

The local paper will run stories of people-buying-bulk-Sudafed (by going from pharmacy to pharmacy) busts, and the tip-offs are legion.

Junky car.
Out of state plates.
Three or more people in the car, only one goes in to buy.
Putative customer looking nervous and agitated.
Putative customer having zero obvious cold or flu symptoms.

[Angel of the Lord]

I think the lack of symptoms is the biggest thing. When I was married, I only got the stinkeye if I was picking it up for my ex; if I was obviously sick, then they didn't give me grief.

[runner pat]

I think the lack of symptoms is the biggest thing. When I was married, I only got the stinkeye if I was picking it up for my ex; if I was obviously sick, then they didn't give me grief.

I used to buy it when I wasn't sick so it was there when my wife or I needed it.

[Rigamarole]

If it's the only thing they are buying, that is a bit of a red flag. Also they sometimes come in groups and buy it simultaneously from multiple registers if it's a big store.

Those are the behaviors I can tell you. But there's another thing from my retail experience that will probably get me grilled here, but I'll go ahead and say it: young men, especially those who do not seem to be part of the store's normal demographic, are often culprits. In particular I worked at a Target which despite being in the greater L.A. area (where we have a very Latino-skewed population) was normally patronized by a huge percentage of whites (and mostly middle-aged whites at that) with very few Latinos or blacks, other than the ones who worked there, ever setting foot in that store. Occasionally there would be small groups of young Latino kids (like 15-20 year olds) who came in wearing urban-typical clothing and would buy nothing but pseudoephedrine products. Yeah, it's profiling, but it was painfully obvious.

[Washoe]

Yeah, I know I’ve posted this before, but it’s one of my all-time faves:

Q. How do you spot three tweakers in a supermarket?

A. They’ve got the cart upside-down and they’re trying to fix the wheel.

[Broomstick]

I've heard that before, but I don't quite get it - probably because I don't hang out much with "tweakers". (My experience with druggies is mostly heroin junkies and cokeheads, along with a few alcoholics) Are they unusually sensitive to squeaks or something?

[pravnik]

I've heard that before, but I don't quite get it - probably because I don't hang out much with "tweakers". (My experience with druggies is mostly heroin junkies and cokeheads, along with a few alcoholics) Are they unusually sensitive to squeaks or something?One of the symptoms of the overdriven meth brain is an OCD-like compulsion to screw with things. Meth addicts will frequently have stuff like broken bicycles or lawnmowers around the house to tinker with for days on end, and I do mean days.

[yabob]

I've heard that before, but I don't quite get it - probably because I don't hang out much with "tweakers". (My experience with druggies is mostly heroin junkies and cokeheads, along with a few alcoholics) Are they unusually sensitive to squeaks or something?
People on meth will exhibit behavior that would normally be associated with obsessive compulsive disorder - meaningless repetitive tasks like arranging objects, or a desire to fiddle (inexpertly) with everything in their immediate environment. Hence the term "tweaker".

[Washoe]

Right. It’s called punding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punding). It’s fascinating to watch. I once saw some meth fiends stay up all night under halogen clamp lamps disassembling and reassembling the same carburetor over and over again.

[runner pat]

And some of them look like this (http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_8.html).:eek:

[WarmNPrickly]

Right. It’s called punding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punding). It’s fascinating to watch. I once saw some meth fiends stay up all night under halogen clamp lamps disassembling and reassembling the same carburetor over and over again.

I'm going to have to have to check my baby girls diapers for meth. She seems to be obsessed with taking things out of drawers and putting them back in. I knew I smelled ammonia coming from her room.

[handsomeharry]

I'm going to have to have to check my baby girls diapers for meth. She seems to be obsessed with taking things out of drawers and putting them back in. I knew I smelled ammonia coming from her room.

Yep, I think you got a meth user there.
Let me ask you this: Missing teeth? Hard to understand speech? Has trouble with simple things like dressing herself? Frightened by loud noises? Keep your eye on her. It may take years, but she can come out of it, and become a normal teenager. Just some advice from someone who's been there.

;)

[GreedySmurf]

It's sort of related, a little while ago, Australia rolled out a nationwide tracking system for the sale of products containing pseudoephedrine.

I think the take up rate of the program was ~90% of all pharmacies in Australia.

In the system you have to show your ID to purchase products containing pseudoephedrine, and your details are logged onto the computer system. Every pharmacy in the program can access the database, and for instance could see if you've purchased other pseudoephedrine products that day. It eliminates the possiblity of going from pharmacy to pharmacy buying 1-2 packets at each location to avoid suspicion.

Although on the downside it has caused an increase in the number of ram-raids and burglaries on pharmacies. :(

[TruCelt]

Yep, I think you got a meth user there.
Let me ask you this: Missing teeth? Hard to understand speech? Has trouble with simple things like dressing herself? Frightened by loud noises? Keep your eye on her. It may take years, but she can come out of it, and become a normal teenager. Just some advice from someone who's been there.

;)

Don't forget trouble sleeping, and a need for constant reassurance. Obsession with watching the same movies over and over. . . OMG, I think the Celtling needs help too!

[Chronos]

Are the folks who make it typically themselves users? I would have thought that the manufacturers would be a separate set of people, doing it just for the profit.

[WarmNPrickly]

It's simple enough to make that I bet most manufacturers are users at least if they are buying storebrand pseudophed to do it. I'm sure the "higher class" manufacturers have another source for pseudophed.

Of course simple is not the same as easy. That's a pretty touch and go reaction to do in your kitchen.

[Rigamarole]

Are the folks who make it typically themselves users? I would have thought that the manufacturers would be a separate set of people, doing it just for the profit.

Some are, some aren't. There are many drug dealers who follow the old law of "don't get high on your own supply" but since drug dealers are not really known for being morally scrupulous, it is not all that uncommon for some to be users as well.

[Washoe]

OMG, I think the Celtling needs help too!

Your real problems will start when they become convinced that you are an undercover narcotics investigator. Keep them away from firearms when it progresses to this stage.

[yabob]

Are the folks who make it typically themselves users? I would have thought that the manufacturers would be a separate set of people, doing it just for the profit.
Even if the person running the lab isn't using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called "smurfs" to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores. Not much compensation there, I'm sure, and they likely recruit users. Plus, these kitchen meth labs are hardly professional operations. That's what's so nasty about it - you have some goof who pulled a "recipe" off the internet, and doesn't really understand anything about chemistry or lab procedure, heating up flammable organic solvents on their kitchen stoves.

[Chronos]

Even if the person running the lab isn't using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called "smurfs" to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores. Not much compensation there, I'm sure, and they likely recruit users.Ah, that would make sense. Reduce the risk to the guy in charge, and the "employees" come cheap, since you can pay them in product.

And meth would be quite nasty enough just from the effects on its users, even if it didn't come with the risk of explosions and fires in its production.

[chorpler]

Even if the person running the lab isn't using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called "smurfs" to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores.

I've always wondered why they're called "smurfs." Anybody know?

[WarmNPrickly]

I think it has to do with having a large group of small entities to accomplish a goal. I got that from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurfing_(crime)). I guess it was originally used for money laundering, but its the same principal.

[TruCelt]

I've always wondered why they're called "smurfs." Anybody know?

I thought it was because they so often use children. Kids can't get as much jail time . . . and are cheaper.

[yabob]

I think it has to do with having a large group of small entities to accomplish a goal. I got that from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurfing_(crime)). I guess it was originally used for money laundering, but its the same principal.
Same association is at the root of "smurf attack" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurf_attack) for a type of denial of service attack on the internet.

[gytalf2000]

And some of them look like this (http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_8.html).:eek:


Wow! That is scary!

How does the drug manage to affect their appearance so drastically?
(I am thinking of the disgusting-looking marks on their face.)

[Doug Bowe]

Wow! That is scary!

How does the drug manage to affect their appearance so drastically?
(I am thinking of the disgusting-looking marks on their face.)



The habitual user may feel there is something under their skin and scratch themselves.
40 years ago the most common term for meth was Speed.
One of the most effective anti-drug messages of the late 60's was "Speed Kills."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,902103,00.html

Here's the kicker...the government didn't launch that campaign. Members of the drug community (LSD, dope, etc.) came up with the buttons with those two words on them.

[Washoe]

40 years ago the most common term for meth was Speed.

When exactly did crystal meth in its current incarnation hit the streets? I don’t remember it existing when I was in high school in the late 1970’s. We still called it ‘speed’ back then, and it was available illicitly as diverted pharmaceutical products. There was also something called ‘Christmas trees,’ but I can’t remember what those were. But in 1979, There wasn’t meth that you could buy by the gram or partial gram, and nothing that you could smoke. But ten years after that, it was all over the place. The 1985 movie Witness (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090329/) makes reference to the P2P reduction synthesis, so that seems to narrow it down to sometime between 1980 to 1985. I checked the DEA’s web page, but couldn’t find any information there. When did the biker gangs first start manufacturing and distributing the substance?

[yabob]

Common illicit manufacture of methamphetamine goes back into the sixties. The "P2P" process refers to phenyl-2-propanone, also called phenylacetone, which was the basis for the clandestine production largely controlled by the outlaw biker gangs at that time. Around 1980, the FDA restricted this chemical specifically because it was a precursor to methamphetamine. That gave rise to the present methods of manufacture using ephedrine or psuedoephedrine.

Note that amphetamines in general were not strictly controlled following WWII, and were widely available throughout the 1950s, including OTC benzedrine inhalers, and "little white pills" (dexedrine) used by truckers. In 1965, the FDA made amphetamines prescription only, as the level of abuse became apparent. They further restricted in 1971.

[Washoe]

So ‘crank’ existed when I was in high school, but it just wasn’t in widespread use at the time?

[yabob]

So ‘crank’ existed when I was in high school, but it just wasn’t in widespread use at the time?
Methamphetamine was certainly being produced, and I definitely remember hearing the term "crank" in the early 70s.

This article gives a general time line about in keeping with my understanding:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/09/09/news/top_stories/23_53_259_8_07.txt