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View Full Version : Any way to still get DDT, legally, in the US?


Ranchoth
07-16-2009, 08:19 AM
...in small amounts, anyway? I'd only need enough to dip a bullet (or perhaps an arrowhead) in, so I can kill wood nymphs.

Luckily, this isn't something I'd need, right at this moment, but I like to have things planned out in advance, if I can. Can anyone help?

Snnipe 70E
07-16-2009, 08:57 AM
No it is completely band.

Mycroft Holmes
07-16-2009, 09:39 AM
If you have access to a lab and chemicals you can always try to synthesize it yourself. ;)

I actually had to synthesize a couple of grams when I was studying OrgChem. The crystals are actually quite pretty (fine, white, waxy looking needles), and the synthesis itself isn't diffcult.

Rhythmdvl
07-16-2009, 09:41 AM
No it is completely band.

Yes, after Legal DDT, a rather hardcore band, inspired a near riot in Boston, they were banned from ever playing there again.

BorgHunter
07-16-2009, 09:43 AM
No it is completely band.
I always said that Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane would make a good band name. Guess I was right!

In all seriousness, though, there was at least one exemption to the U.S. DDT ban. In 1979, the California Department of Health Services used DDT to control fleas that were, apparently, vectors for bubonic plague. (Cite (http://www.aei.org/outlook/27063)) So, if your wood nymphs and other assorted mythological riffraff happen to be vectors for bubonic plague, you may be able to convince the U.S. government to let you use some. Otherwise, I suspect that you're SOL.

butler1850
07-16-2009, 10:08 AM
Yes, after Legal DDT, a rather hardcore band, inspired a near riot in Boston, they were banned from ever playing there again.

Like that's tough... getting Banned in Boston is easier than parking there! :cool:

DrDeth
07-16-2009, 10:30 AM
There's likely bottles of old DDT and several other now-banned pesticides, like diazon, in garages all across the USA.

For wood nymphs, you want Agent Orange anyway.

Sunspace
07-16-2009, 10:39 AM
There's likely bottles of old DDT and several other now-banned pesticides, like diazon, in garages all across the USA.

For wood nymphs, you want Agent Orange anyway.Could be worse...could be smurfs. And everyone knows that orange and blue don't mix.

leandroc76
07-16-2009, 11:01 AM
I hear Jake the Snake Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT_(professional_wrestling))is still giving them out!

Quercus
07-16-2009, 12:11 PM
I think if you're using it to kill wood nymphs, that's a pesticide use, for which DDT is no longer permitted, so no, there's no way to legally obtain it.
I'm not sure what the legal status would be if you were using the DDT for a non-pesticide use.

Ruken
07-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Aldrich sells it for for ~$25/g. If I ordered it now it would probably be in my hands tomorrow. link (http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?lang=en&N4=386340|ALDRICH&N5=SEARCH_CONCAT_PNO|BRAND_KEY&F=SPEC) Not sure if that link will work.

Can you order it? Probably not. But I can :D

I'm probably restricted from killing pests or smoking it or dumping it down the drain.

ThisSpaceForRent
07-16-2009, 01:49 PM
My mom has an unopened glass bottle of it...approx a quart. Clearly labled. Dang,I hope she never drops it!

WarmNPrickly
07-16-2009, 02:03 PM
Aldrich sells it for for ~$25/g. If I ordered it now it would probably be in my hands tomorrow. link (http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?lang=en&N4=386340|ALDRICH&N5=SEARCH_CONCAT_PNO|BRAND_KEY&F=SPEC) Not sure if that link will work.

Can you order it? Probably not. But I can :D

I'm probably restricted from killing pests or smoking it or dumping it down the drain.
Hell, I've bet you've got a reuse facility with the starting materials or something close enough just sitting around. That synthesis is bathtub chemistry. $25g is too much for that. Obviously, government restrictions are raising the price. Maybe those trichlorocarbonyls count as CFC's or something, which would raise the price of the starting aldehyde. The acid is certainly common enough as is chlorobenzene.

Ruken
07-16-2009, 02:57 PM
Hell, I've bet you've got a reuse facility with the starting materials or something close enough just sitting around. That synthesis is bathtub chemistry. $25g is too much for that. Obviously, government restrictions are raising the price. Maybe those trichlorocarbonyls count as CFC's or something, which would raise the price of the starting aldehyde. The acid is certainly common enough as is chlorobenzene.The components to make it may be cheap or even free, but the time to make it is not. Spending 2 minutes to order it and have it tomorrow >> spending an hour making/purifying.

But anyway, I typed incorrectly above. It's <$50 for 25g, so less than $2/g. Cheap.

WarmNPrickly
07-16-2009, 03:18 PM
Well yes, I wasn't suggesting you actually do it. Although I think you overestimate the time involved. No doubt you have space for an extra set up in your hood. The purification is, "dump it in water then filter". The procedure I found doesn't even use solvent. If you don't have any time at all in grad school to experiment on your own, your doing it wrong.

Also, if you can order whatever you like without your major professor giving you the fifth degree, your major professor has a lot more faith in you than mine did. I could order all sorts of crazy stuff, but only if it was at least somewhat related to my project.

Nametag
07-16-2009, 03:23 PM
It's Adrich, baby. When you sell a little bottle of something with 2 pounds of packaging, the price goes up.

(For those unfamiliar with Aldrich, they're a major supplier of high-grade fine chemicals in laboratory quantities. Everyone ships hazardous materials in secure packaging, but Aldrich goes nuts: that 1 gram glass bottle will show up in a plastic bag, goose-necked and taped shut, inside a cardboard box packed with vermiculite (or something that looks like it), which will be wrapped in a second plastic bag and packed inside a second cardboard box packed with either paper or more vermiculite. If the product were a liquid, there would be an additional layer: a metal canister with either a styrofoam liner or -- yup -- more vermiculite.)

WarmNPrickly
07-16-2009, 03:33 PM
It's pretty standard packaging everywhere in all industries. Writing specific regulations for each of the thousand chemicals would be impossible, especially since most of these chemicals have not been thouroughly tested for toxicity, cancer and environmental impact. So industry solves the problem by packaging everything like dimethylmercury. It saves money since they don't have to pay for testing of thousands of products that they only sell a few kg of a year. For products they sell a lot of, they will do the testing and they will not be overpackaged like that.

DocCathode
07-16-2009, 04:49 PM
Don't be silly. Wood Nymphs, like most of the Hidden Folk, are extremely vulnerable to a non-toxic substance easily obtained without a permit- iron. I always carry some on my person when in the Old City district.

DrDeth
07-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Don't be silly. Wood Nymphs, like most of the Hidden Folk, are extremely vulnerable to a non-toxic substance easily obtained without a permit- iron. .

Cold Iron. And I have heard that a cold iron sword through the heart can also kill other weird things.:p

Sunspace
07-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Cold Iron. And I have heard that a cold iron sword through the heart can also kill other weird things.:pMerely displaying* a sword, cold iron or otherwise, is enough to drive off some pests.

*And yelling and running about.

Qwakkeddup
07-16-2009, 08:55 PM
Merely displaying* a sword, cold iron or otherwise, is enough to drive off some pests.

*And yelling and running about.



Just ask Master Wang-Ka http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=242716&page=2 Post 31

Sage Rat
07-16-2009, 10:31 PM
My mom has an unopened glass bottle of it...approx a quart. Clearly labled. Dang,I hope she never drops it!

In case you're saying that because you're worried of toxicity, I have seen many posters on this board say that it's all but harmless. The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddt#Effects_on_human_health) lists off ways it can hurt people by the bucketful but doesn't state how strong the link is to any of them.

I suspect the correct answer is that drinking tainted water day in and day out would be bad, but a one time spill on your floor that was quickly mopped up would pose no practical risk.

Nametag
07-18-2009, 05:18 AM
It's pretty standard packaging everywhere in all industries. Writing specific regulations for each of the thousand chemicals would be impossible, especially since most of these chemicals have not been thouroughly tested for toxicity, cancer and environmental impact. So industry solves the problem by packaging everything like dimethylmercury. It saves money since they don't have to pay for testing of thousands of products that they only sell a few kg of a year. For products they sell a lot of, they will do the testing and they will not be overpackaged like that.
Makes sense, but it's not true. First of all, EVERY chemical I've bought from them is a well-characterized item of commerce, and is accompanied by a complete MSDS. Second, I can order 25g of sulfuric acid 98% from Sigma/Aldrich and it will show up packaged like radioactive nitroglycerin. I can order 5 pounds from Spectrum, Fisher, VWR, etc., and it'll show up in a glass bottle in a cardboard box filled with styrofoam -- no sorbents, no neutralizers, no plastic bags, and no double layers. And I've seen Aldrich do that kind of overpackaging for all manner of chemicals, some of which have no known hazards except for smelling bad.

Ranchoth
07-18-2009, 07:34 AM
Don't be silly. Wood Nymphs, like most of the Hidden Folk, are extremely vulnerable to a non-toxic substance easily obtained without a permit- iron. I always carry some on my person when in the Old City district.

True enough, but I wanted to explore/exploit additional options against species of nature spirits that don't have such a vulnerability, or have gained some measure of immunity against it.

Preliminary design concept at this point involves a cold iron-jacketed trinitite cored (or was it the other way around? I'll have to find my notes...) bullet, with the aforementioned coating of DDT, as a universal Anti-Uppity Sprite round.

DrDeth—I must say, I do appreciate the nod to Agent Orange! Though I had it in mind for large-scale Hippie (http://www.linkognito.com/b.php?b=1399) Area-Denial, specifically (as it was a "Rainbow Herbicide," it seems doubly appropriate).