Same-sex marriage: United States lags behind Albania

[Northern Piper]

That little backwater of Europe, Albania, may be the next country to implement same-sex marriage, according to this article: Albanian gays welcome PM's same-sex marriage plan (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE56U49G20090731):

Albania's homosexuals won more than they had hoped for after the government said it planned to allow same-sex marriages despite opposition from religious leaders and politicians.

The proposal put forward by Prime Minister Sali Berisha on Thursday faces a tough fight in parliament.

But should he make good on his plans, Albania would join European Union members The Netherlands, Belgium, and Spain in giving gay couples the same rights as heterosexual couples and would be the first country in the Balkans to do so.

[mhendo]

I'm always amazed at the global company the United States seems willing to keep (or to lag behind) in some of its policy areas.

In refusing to allow gays to serve openly in the military, the US aligns itself with bastions of freedom like Iran, China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea. It shuns the poor example set by dictatorships like Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and Israel. In executing prisoners, the United States keeps pretty much the same company.

It must be reassuring for Americans to know that the Saudi princes, Kim Jong Il, and the Iranian mullahs are on the same page as us in these important issues.

ETA: Good for Albania. I hope the measure succeeds.

[Hello Again]

It is completely disingenuous to suggest that Albanians are more progressive with respect to homosexuality than Americans. It is considered dangerous to be openly homosexual in Albania.

http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/homophobia-in-albania/
“Our biggest problem is identifying ourselves and the possibility of having a shared space where we can meet without fear. There are gay and lesbian clubs all over the world, even in Arab countries which are historically more traditional than ours, and yet here we live in fear” says S.L., a member of the Albanian Gay and Lesbian Association, ALGA.

[mhendo]

It is completely disingenuous to suggest that Albanians are more progressive with respect to homosexuality than Americans. It is considered dangerous to be openly homosexual in Albania. I didn't know that. To tell the truth, i don't know very much at all about Albania.

But i'm not sure anyone suggested different. The OP never said there was no homophobia; he merely noted that Albania's government has taken steps to make gay marriage legal. And, no matter how much pervasive homophobia there is in the country, i think that's a god thing.

I'm not under any illusion that legalizing gay marriage in America would put an end to homophobia either, any more than the civil rights and feminist movements put an end to racism and sexism.

[Kyla]

About 13 million people live in the three American states where same sex marriage is currently legal (not counting the other three states where it has been legalized but is not yet underway). There are approximately 4 million people in Albania.

Not that I am happy with the rights of same sex couples in the US, and I hope it goes though in Albania, but the idea that ANYONE might possibly think gay folk (or anyone, actually) has it better in Albania than in the US is laughable.

FTR, I've been to Albania. It's very pretty, I had a nice time, I highly recommend it as a travel destination (very cheap, nice beaches, friendly people who LOVE Americans). The Balkans as a whole are not a good place to be gay.

[mhendo]

but the idea that ANYONE might possibly think gay folk (or anyone, actually) has it better in Albania than in the US is laughable.Lucky no-one said that, i guess.

[Kyla]

Lucky no-one said that, i guess.

Well, I inferred that from the title of the thread, but I guess you're right, the OP wasn't referring to gay rights in general, just same sex marriage.

[AskNott]

Albania! Albania!

Let no one disdain ya!

(and so on...)

[Northern Piper]

as mhendo commented, I wasn't making any general claim about the situation of GBL folk in Albania - just that the Prime Minister of the country has announced that he's going to try to put through same-sex marriage.

However, I do find it interesting that he made the announcement after the local GBL community asked for less than that - protections at work and in accommodation. It sounds like the PM thinks that allowing same-sex marriage may be part of a comprehensive approach to reduce discrimination in Albania.

And as for the argument that the US is in a better position based on numbers who can access same-sex marriage, a much larger number are denied it, based on the state constitutional provisions. If the Albanian PM is able to implement his proposal, then 100% of gays and lesbians in Albania will have access to same-sex marriage - a much better ratio than in the U.S.

[Thudlow Boink]

I'm always amazed at the global company the United States seems willing to keep (or to lag behind) in some of its policy areas.

In refusing to allow gays to serve openly in the military, the US aligns itself with bastions of freedom like Iran, China, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea. It shuns the poor example set by dictatorships like Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and Israel.C'mon, U.S., allow gay marriage—all the cool countries are doing it!

[Sage Rat]

If you're inclusive of all of Europe, not just Center and Northern Europe, I think the US is actually about even or slightly behind on a state<->country comparison. The US is something like 28% SSM or Civil Union positive. Europe is something like 35%, I believe.

We are behind in the race, but we really aren't doing awful when you consider how widely the US is divergent within itself.

[Kyla]

However, I do find it interesting that he made the announcement after the local GBL community asked for less than that - protections at work and in accommodation. It sounds like the PM thinks that allowing same-sex marriage may be part of a comprehensive approach to reduce discrimination in Albania.


This may be part of Albania's (rather farfetched) attempt to get into the EU. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

[Raygun99]

I didn't know that. To tell the truth, i don't know very much at all about Albania.

I do know that it borders on the Adriatic.

[Shagnasty]

I support gay marriage but it is a state issue and I don't think there is much the United States government as a whole can do to change that short of a Constitutional amendment. That wouldn't pass right now and it would take a long time to implement if it ever did. States are changing over on their own and that is the best that anyone can realistically hope for.

[Bricker]

I support gay marriage but it is a state issue and I don't think there is much the United States government as a whole can do to change that short of a Constitutional amendment. That wouldn't pass right now and it would take a long time to implement if it ever did. States are changing over on their own and that is the best that anyone can realistically hope for.

I gather the thrust of the OP is a wry comment on "...a Constitutional amendment.... [t]hat wouldn't pass right now..." In other words, he acknowledges that there is insufficient political will to change the issue, nationally, and notes that Albania, not exactly a haven for Pride parades, is ironically closer to getting same-sex marriage support from the head of its government than the US is.

[Ruby]

I support gay marriage but it is a state issue and I don't think there is much the United States government as a whole can do to change that short of a Constitutional amendment. That wouldn't pass right now and it would take a long time to implement if it ever did. States are changing over on their own and that is the best that anyone can realistically hope for.Why exactly is this a state issue? Since the legal rights of hetero marriage are not bound by state lines, why isn't this a federal issue?

[42fish]

I do know that it borders on the Adriatic.

And their main export is furious politcal thought.

[Rodd Hill]

Not to mention that the USA is waaaaaay behind Albania in the "goats per household" stakes.

I posted the official Albanian World Cup Team song in 2001. Here it is again.

"Albania! Albania!
Not nearly as repressive as Roumania
Easier to spell than Boueftsgwachgznia
And if we don't win any games
The secret police will confiscate our dentures
The secret police will take away our extra meat ration
The secret police will shout at our slippers...""

[villa]

I do know that it borders on the Adriatic.

And C.B. Fry, England cricket captain and all round good egg was offered its throne in 1920. Or so he told people, and he was a Gentleman, and Gentlemen never lie.

[Sage Rat]

I gather the thrust of the OP is a wry comment on "...a Constitutional amendment.... [t]hat wouldn't pass right now..." In other words, he acknowledges that there is insufficient political will to change the issue, nationally, and notes that Albania, not exactly a haven for Pride parades, is ironically closer to getting same-sex marriage support from the head of its government than the US is.

I suspect that the system of government in Albania requires less public support.

[Dr. Drake]

Why exactly is this a state issue? Since the legal rights of hetero marriage are not bound by state lines, why isn't this a federal issue?Marriage (gay or not) is a state issue. The 1996 so-called Defense of Marriage Act is the federal issue. Were the DOMA to go away (please please please), that would change the rules dramatically.

Let me add my kudos to Albania, and point out that the Albanian institution of the vajzë e betuar has provided a legitimate social role for some LGBT individuals: essentially, women living as men, up to and including marriage to other women. I don't know too much about it, and it's obviously not the same as modern Western gay identity, but "dangerous to be openly homosexual" is obviously a bit more nuanced than some of the posts here indicate.

ETA: A not-very-good article on the topic in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sworn_virgin. Obviously, the sexual aspect would occur behind closed doors anyway; From other things I've read I gather the "virgin" aspect is a public fiction, a sort of 19th-century "don't ask, don't tell."