what would be "too much" for Lost? [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

Ají de Gallina

08-12-2009, 09:14 PM

I confess never having watched a full episode and only having the slightest idea what's goig on there, but it seems that evety time I catch an episode there's something completely bonkers going on. The scientific base, the "deus ex machina" hatch, the Michelle Rodriguez castaways, the future/past/flashbacks.....

What would be too unbeleivable even for Lost? A dinosaur? Jesus? Aliens?

enalzi

08-12-2009, 09:22 PM

Mahaloth

08-12-2009, 09:57 PM

As far as Dinosaurs or aliens, the horribly rendered submarine has shown that they have a very small CGI budget.

I'm curious if they fix that effect for the DVD. It was an unusual moment where everyone noticed a poor shot at the same time.

billfish678

08-12-2009, 10:24 PM

enalzi

08-12-2009, 11:08 PM

About the only thing that pops into my mind is Yoda and Bigfoot, being a happily married jewish couple, having twins.

And I think it would only be the mechanics of it that would put it over the top for Lost.

I bet Lindy and Cuse could pull it off. If you have told me in the middle of the first season that they were gonna time travel back to the 70's, I would've turned it off right then and there. But they made it work.

Red Barchetta

08-12-2009, 11:32 PM

I'm curious if they fix that effect for the DVD. It was an unusual moment where everyone noticed a poor shot at the same time.

It's always had subpar special effects, with the occasional exception (plane crashes were impressive). The smoke monster has always looked like a flying turd that doesn't at all blend in with the surroundings, and the polar bear was also embarrassing.

emcee2k

08-13-2009, 12:27 AM

... A dinosaur? Jesus? Aliens?

None of those are really any more fantastic than many things already featured in the show. Lost has an already well established fantasy/scifi premise, so if dinosaurs were to show up, it wouldn't be like adding them to a show that's otherwise grounded in reality.

Also, the hatch wasn't really Deus Ex Machina.

Derleth

08-13-2009, 12:30 AM

The little kid falls out of his bed and swears off rarebit for-ever!

Then a snowglobe rolls out from under his bed.

Cliffy

08-13-2009, 09:39 AM

I bet Lindy and Cuse could pull it off. If you have told me in the middle of the first season that they were gonna time travel back to the 70's, I would've turned it off right then and there. But they made it work.

Agreed. The show -- and there's no reason for the OP to know this -- isn't about all the wacky shit, although that's compelling. It's about the characters, and seeing how people you wouldn't otherwise consider exceptional cope with the extreme situations in which they find themselves. Ergo, there isn't anything too weird to deal with so long as it's introduced the same way everything else has been introduced, as a platform for exploring character. (Which is why LOST is a much better show than its imitators -- because they are about crazy happenings, and LOST uses them as scaffolding.)

--Cliffy

cmkeller

08-13-2009, 10:06 AM

The only thing that would be too much would be to discover that Charlie, instead of dying, traveled back in time to the 70's to found the band Geronimo Jackson, and had a hit song which entered the charts at # 42, rose to 23, then 16, 15 and 8 before finally peaking at # 4. And Casey Kasem relating this history was the voice reciting the numbers being broadcast from the island.

Baracus

08-13-2009, 10:43 AM

On alt.tv.lost there is a guy named Bob that has a theory that the entire show is giant con. According to him, nothing that you see on the screen can be taken at face value. Claire's baby? Not actually hers. Kate had it hidden in her backpack prior to the birthing scene (seriously he is that out there). All this done in an apparent attempt to fool the world for some reason similar to what apparently happens in the Watchmen, which Lost supposedly references a lot.

While he thinks this revelation would be delicious, I think pitchfork wielding mobs would be chasing the writers.

Shoeless

08-13-2009, 11:12 AM

Well, we've discovered in the recent season finale that theres
two, semi-immortal, possible Egyptian gods living on the island that can apparently raise the dead as well as possess them.
I think that covers the Jesus angle.

As far as Dinosaurs or aliens, the horribly rendered submarine has shown that they have a very small CGI budget.

I always figured the Jesus angle was covered thru Jack's dad ("Christian Shepard") who seems to have come back from the dead in one way or another.

woodstockbirdybird

08-13-2009, 11:15 AM

I always figured the Jesus angle was covered thru Jack's dad ("Christian Shepard") who seems to have come back from the dead in one way or another.

Or the lame (Locke) being made to walk.

Ají de Gallina

08-13-2009, 11:18 AM

None of those are really any more fantastic than many things already featured in the show. Lost has an already well established fantasy/scifi premise, so if dinosaurs were to show up, it wouldn't be like adding them to a show that's otherwise grounded in reality.

Also, the hatch wasn't really Deus Ex Machina.

(my bolding)
Maybe no 100% Deus, but it allowed for the fat guy to remain fat without further complications.

Caricci

08-13-2009, 12:08 PM

Hampshire

08-13-2009, 01:31 PM

I don't know how much further "out there" they can go before they have to start reeling it in. They have one season left to do it and while I doubt they can reel it all the way back into a neat and tidy explanation that will satisfy everyone they do need to start pulling it back in and fitting a few pieces together.

Ronald C. Semone

08-13-2009, 04:11 PM

Red Barchetta

08-13-2009, 04:21 PM

The only thing that could be "too much", although it may also be the only thing that could tie everything up, is for one of the characters to realize just before he hits the beach after the plane crashed that he imagined the whole thing, sort of like Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurance At Owl Creek Bridge."

Damn that was a good show/Twilight Zone episode. Lost can only wish it were that compelling.

enalzi

08-13-2009, 04:54 PM

Damn that was a good show/Twilight Zone episode. Lost can only wish it were that compelling.

It was also a short story. Which Locke was reading at one point.

But the head guys have repeatedly stated that there will not be any sort of "it was all a dream" type ending.

Derleth

08-13-2009, 05:11 PM

It was also a short story. Which Locke was reading at one point.

But the head guys have repeatedly stated that there will not be any sort of "it was all a dream" type ending.Technically, a psychotic break isn't a dream. Neither is a fever hallucination.

Colophon

08-13-2009, 08:24 PM

Making the slightest bit of fucking sense. That would be really out there.

ArrMatey!

08-13-2009, 10:08 PM

It was also a short story. Which Locke was reading at one point.

But the head guys have repeatedly stated that there will not be any sort of "it was all a dream" type ending.

Not to sound snark, but didn't they also say there'd be no time travel?

salinqmind

08-13-2009, 10:11 PM

Didn't they say there would not be anything 'supernatural' - no aliens, that kind of thing - isn't there some kind of basis in reality, for all the strange events?

GIGObuster

08-13-2009, 11:21 PM

The Player Vs Player web comic has the answer to the OP:

http://www.pvponline.com/2009/05/14/and-the-rest/

Gilligan and the Skipper are the gods.

"This finally makes sense to me". :D

enalzi

08-13-2009, 11:23 PM

Not to sound snark, but didn't they also say there'd be no time travel?

I think they were saying that the plane crash was not them time-traveling. But honestly, regardless of what they've said, Lindelof and Cuse are great writers, and they both know that any sort of "it didn't really happen" ending would be the biggest cop-out ending in the history of TV (if not fiction). Plus, I doubt they would stay alive much longer than that.

Cardinal

08-13-2009, 11:46 PM

The only thing that could be "too much", although it may also be the only thing that could tie everything up, is for one of the characters to realize just before he hits the beach after the plane crashed that he imagined the whole thing, sort of like Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurance At Owl Creek Bridge."I will send a dead rat to someone on the production staff if this is their "explanation". That would be artistic suicide/manipulation on a scale I've not personally yet encountered.

Monkey Chews

08-14-2009, 12:49 AM

(my bolding)
Maybe no 100% Deus, but it allowed for the fat guy to remain fat without further complications.Which makes it not even 50% Deus. I'd maybe put it's Deus level at around 3%, maximum.

Deus Ex Machina: it's not Latin for "Oooh, that's a bit convenient." :cool:

Bryan Ekers

08-14-2009, 01:26 AM

Ted McGinley shows up.

cmkeller

08-14-2009, 01:45 AM

GigoBuster:

The comic strip Monty did that joke first. (http://comics.com/monty/?DateAfter=2006-02-27&DateBefore=2006-03-18&Order=s.DateStrip+ASC&PerPage=50&Search=&x=43&y=17)

mshar253

08-14-2009, 02:24 AM

Didn't they say there would not be anything 'supernatural' - no aliens, that kind of thing - isn't there some kind of basis in reality, for all the strange events?

The smoke monster appeared in the pilot. If they did say that, it went out the window pretty fast.

cmyk

08-14-2009, 02:38 AM

It's not about how much is too much; it's a science fiction / fantasy drama. So, as with any decently told story within that genre, it's about sticking to whatever rules you've laid down from the start and keeping it all cogent within that framework. Out of context, there's some asinine stuff in there already, but if it all comes together in a well told, tightly woven, complex and interesting story by the end of it, and they don't break their own rules, cheat, or back peddle* – well, shit... that's quality entertainment.

The story isn't done yet, so no one can say what the verdict is, but for now, I feel they've done a decent job of sticking to the rules they've established from the first season. I think it's fair to say, we're all dying to find out how it's going to wrap up.

*And no true Deus Ex Machinas as of yet, that I can think of.

Red Barchetta

08-14-2009, 02:48 AM

*And no true Deus Ex Machinas as of yet, that I can think of.

What about all of those random jungle encounters, which seems to happen at least once an episode? Surely some of those must qualify.

Alessan

08-14-2009, 06:30 AM

The smoke monster appeared in the pilot. If they did say that, it went out the window pretty fast.

Yeah, but we didn't actually see it until the last episode of Season 1. Up until then, they could have given a perfectly mundane reason for all those trees being uprooted.

singular1

08-14-2009, 07:00 AM

I bet Lindy and Cuse could pull it off. If you have told me in the middle of the first season that they were gonna time travel back to the 70's, I would've turned it off right then and there. But they made it work.

Maybe for you. That's where they lost me...

Making the slightest bit of fucking sense. That would be really out there. :D

LateComer

08-14-2009, 07:22 AM

"They're on the island, they're off the island! Who can follow that shit!?"

JohnT

08-14-2009, 08:41 AM

Things that would be "too much"?

Kate not being such an amoral bitch...

Jack not being such a doofus...

Locke saying "Hey, I was happier at the box factory. When can I go home?"...

Hurley and Rose being discovered in a Love Connection...

Sawyer being at a lost for insults...

Girl-on-girl action with Shannon, Claire, Sun, and that chick who blew up the bomb at the end of last season... (a man can dream, can't he?)

Justin_Bailey

08-14-2009, 09:12 AM

Yeah, but we didn't actually see it until the last episode of Season 1. Up until then, they could have given a perfectly mundane reason for all those trees being uprooted.

A perfectly mundane reason for an invisible force that uprooted trees and roared?

billfish678

08-14-2009, 10:19 AM

A perfectly mundane reason for an invisible force that uprooted trees and roared?

You havent had Taco Bell's Lava Sauce Extra Bean Burritto yet have you?

It works just as well no matter what end it comes out off. And, given the taste, the odds are about 50/50 either way.

jackdavinci

08-14-2009, 02:46 PM

The smoke monster appeared in the pilot. If they did say that, it went out the window pretty fast.

Didn't they say there would not be anything 'supernatural' - no aliens, that kind of thing - isn't there some kind of basis in reality, for all the strange events?

I think their point was that this is a science fiction show and not a fantasy one. Aliens are not supernatural. The smoke monster hasn't been explained yet. It could be some kind of cloud of nano computers or something. Supernatural implies things of a spiritual nature like ghosts, god, angels.

Bryan Ekers

08-14-2009, 03:17 PM

I think their point was that this is a science fiction show and not a fantasy one.

Yeah, but if the science is sufficiently advanced, what difference does it make?

Justin_Bailey

08-14-2009, 05:15 PM

I think their point was that this is a science fiction show and not a fantasy one. Aliens are not supernatural. The smoke monster hasn't been explained yet. It could be some kind of cloud of nano computers or something. Supernatural implies things of a spiritual nature like ghosts, god, angels.

Again, the Egyptian gods and possessed Locke kinda throw that one down the crapper.

MyFootsZZZ

08-14-2009, 06:09 PM

This is exactly why I didn't want get into this show. I wanted to see what the "pay-off" was before watching it. Though this isn't like TheX-Files in that there's a specific ending in mind, watching The X-Files has lead me to reevaluate how I watch all T.V.

It's an investment.

However, I've invested in watching the show because my mom, father, and brother are all hooked. And, because my brother likes to see it on the ol' man's HD, why not make the 5 min drive to spend some time with the ol' gang?

There have been some silly things; (in the first episode, why was the plain engine still running? Not being snide, just asking if there's a reason I missed). My attention is... well, diverted at times, but I think I have a grasp on everything IMPORTANT that's going on. It's just, what if the pay-off sucks? If I watched it alone, (I don't on the 'off' Wed. when we can't get together), I would be pissed if I wasn't satisfied with the conclusion.

If it 'blows my mind', I'm sure I'll invest more in reruns, or maybe watch their DVDs. If not, family's still important.

emcee2k

08-14-2009, 06:30 PM

Again, the Egyptian gods and possessed Locke kinda throw that one down the crapper.

It's been a while since I watched it, but wasn't Locke's body in the box the whole time? It seemed to me that the God didn't possess him, he just took his form

carnivorousplant

08-14-2009, 06:55 PM

(in the first episode, why was the plain engine still running?
Yeah, what was with that? I watched the pilot with Mrs. Plant, and that's one of the reasons I didn't watch any other episodes.

enalzi

08-14-2009, 08:02 PM

Eh, it was just a little artistic license. It made the opening scene much more intense. Notice how calm it got after it blew up.

billfish678

08-14-2009, 08:31 PM

There have been some silly things; (in the first episode, why was the plain engine still running? Not being snide, just asking if there's a reason I missed). .

I can tell you this. I've seen a youtube video of a private jet that landed in a pond/lake/lagoon. The engines appeared to powered down, the craft was sinking and folks were getting into rescue craft.

All of a sudden, at least one of the engines starts reving back up, the jet starts cruising around the lagoon, and folks are trying to get the hell away from it !

So, apparently post crash engines are capable of strange things.

IIRC, the tail letters/numbers on that jet were OY-VEY , which I thought was funny as hell.

carnivorousplant

08-14-2009, 08:45 PM

The engines appeared to powered down...
All of a sudden, at least one of the engines starts reving back up,

I find that difficult to believe. A cart with batteries is necessary to start them up at the airport.

emcee2k

08-14-2009, 09:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlreuXRW95g

It says OY-JET.

billfish678

08-14-2009, 09:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlreuXRW95g

It says OY-JET.

Thats it ! OY- JET works for me too :)

carnivorousplant

08-14-2009, 10:25 PM

All of a sudden, at least one of the engines starts reving back up, the jet starts cruising around the lagoon, and folks are trying to get the hell away from it !

I believe that is steam generated when the hot engine comes in contact with the water as the aircraft begins to sink and Mr. Newton's Laws of Motion. :)

jackdavinci

08-15-2009, 03:25 AM

Again, the Egyptian gods and possessed Locke kinda throw that one down the crapper.

We haven't seen any Egyptian Gods other than in hieroglyphs, which you can find all over real life Egypt. Locke wasn't possessed, he was impersonated. We've already seen that the smoke monster can read people's memories and impersonate them after death (Eko's brother, Christian, Alex). Jacob and his rival are certainly mysterious, and bear some resemblance to more than one myth/religious story, but their origin hasn't yet been revealed. We do know that they are immortal, as is Richard. We do have some non monster 'ghosts' seen by Hurley and ghostly memories sensed by Miles. The former could be delusions, and either could be the sci-fi sort of psychic, reading impressions of electromagnetic waves or whatever. Some of these things might steer into the blatantly supernatural by the end of the series, but for now things have pretty much remained ambiguous.

billfish678

08-15-2009, 10:03 AM

I believe that is steam generated when the hot engine comes in contact with the water as the aircraft begins to sink and Mr. Newton's Laws of Motion. :)

Hows that gonna work?

Yeah, I figured out the steam part.

My impression from the the video is that you can actually hear the engine spooling/reeving back up and the plane starts moving around again,which implies the thrust levels when from very low to something substantial.

My WAG is than either controls or part of the engine that are damaged in the crash or come in contact (or some combination of all of these) with the water either feed more fuel into the engine or disable some mechanism that keeps the engine from running at full throttle (kinda like a gas pedal that you have to pull up on rather than push down on).

Thinking a bit more about it, you would (might) generally WANT a jet engine to be set up so that the default throttle position is full power (if your throttle control system breaks, the engine runs at full power). If you still need to shut it off, you shut off the fuel to the engine, which could easily be overlooked in a crash.

Elendil's Heir

08-15-2009, 11:44 PM

Patrick Duffy steps out of the shower....

carnivorousplant

08-16-2009, 12:17 AM

you shut off the fuel to the engine, which could easily be overlooked in a crash.

The engine in the TV show is sitting there all by itself without a fuel tank.

MyFootsZZZ

08-16-2009, 08:05 AM

The engine in the TV show is sitting there all by itself without a fuel tank.

That's what I didn't get.

I'm not all that...

--"quick witted" or "smart". So that's why I questioned if there was a reason WHY the thing was still running. I mean, like carnivorousplant, that really turned me off to the series at first. It looked like something Roland Emmerich had a hand in. Like I said; if the payoff is clever enough, it could absolve some of the problems I have with the show. I'm just thinking that there will be a lot of loyal fans that WONT be satisfied, (no matter what).

At least The X-Files wasn't always focused on the recurring story. When I remember the time I spent at my brother's catching up on the whole first season, I recall thinking how many people were going to invest in the show until the end, and how many of those people will be happy they stayed for the ride. I hope it works out, and the ending is satisfying. Just skeptical.