Time to pit Dick Cheney - again.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Why won't this guy just STFU?

I'll answer that! He is so clueless, paranoid and psychopathic that he can't live in the real world. He's wrong and he wants to rewrite history to exonerate his evil.

His reaction to the Justice Dept. inquiry into the criminal acts that he promoted is that the it raises, “doubts about this administration’s ability to be responsible for our nation’s security.’’

Dick, you limp, evil dick, the inquiry raises doubts into the Bush administration’s ability to be responsible for our nation’s security. Dick, you limp, evil dick, in the future, when a Webster's illustrated dictionary is published, your picture will accompany the definition of the inner circle of Hell.

Here's an interesting take on the matter from the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/cheney-sets-semantic-trap_n_269330.html

With this, I do a secondary pit of the media and the way this thing was reported.

There are things like laws, the Constitution and international treaties that govern the actions of a government. They are not up to you, Mr. Cheney, to interpret at your paranoid, twisted whims.

[BrainGlutton]

Why won't this guy just STFU?

Because he can no longer run things from behind the scenes.

[elucidator]

He probably believes it. He's like Col Jessup in a Few Good Men, he is convinced that hard-headed realistic men like him are necessary to protect us weaklings, who wouldn't have the stern discipline to do what has to be done.

And the reports themselves seem to be couched in ambiguity. I'm reminded of a phrase John LeCarre used in his novels about the duplicity and beaureacratic cowardice of the British intelligence system. "Yes, repeat, No!" Used to describe the kind of double-talk addressed to difficult situations so that no matter how the situation unfolds, the author can claim to have clearly and unequivocally recommended precisely the right course of action, whichever of two contradictory actions prove to be correct. "Yes, repeat, No!"

I suspect he got "informal" reports that suggested that the techniques he was courageous enough to authorize were effective and fruitful. Who's gonna piss off Big Dick Cheney?

But the actual reports don't say any such thing, for fear that some Congressional committeman is going to say "Cite?". It would be perfectly legit to say that Achmed al Badguy gave up information after being waterboarded. He almost certainly did, for instance, we learned he did not want to be waterboarded. And he told us a whole bunch of stuff, but unfortunately, we cannot divulge what stuff.

National security reasons, you understand.

But even if its utter crap made up in desperation, its still "intelligence"! At least until every last effort has been made to verify it.

Anybody reporting to Cheney would know what he wanted to hear. If they couldn't tell him that, they would get as close to it as they could. He was told what he wanted to hear, and right now is probably blaming them for telling it to him.

And so it goes.

[SenorBeef]

Why isn't anyone willing to call him on the hypocrisy?

If dissenting with the president in a time of war is aiding and comforting the enemy, then why isn't he guilty right now?

To be clear, I think the whole notion is a stupid idea - but if he's going to advocate it, then he should be called on it.

[Leaper]

Why isn't anyone willing to call him on the hypocrisy?

If dissenting with the president in a time of war is aiding and comforting the enemy, then why isn't he guilty right now?

To be clear, I think the whole notion is a stupid idea - but if he's going to advocate it, then he should be called on it.

I think it's because he (and those who agree with him) think it's treasonous when you're disagreeing with a President who's doing all the right things to protect the nation from terrorist attack, and your patriotic duty when you're disagreeing with a President who's soft on terror and trying to rip the country apart.

It's really quite simple to understand once you remember that he thinks no one he worked with while VP did anything wrong, and like elucidator, I do think he believes it.

[the first supraliminal]

My problem with Cheney is that he's too old and infirm for the punishments he deserves. Even if convicted of his crimes, and sent to Scotland to serve time, he would just be furloughed to Libya and receive a hero's welcome by mercenaries and gun runners.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Why isn't anyone willing to call him on the hypocrisy?

If dissenting with the president in a time of war is aiding and comforting the enemy, then why isn't he guilty right now?

To be clear, I think the whole notion is a stupid idea - but if he's going to advocate it, then he should be called on it.

I suspect, admittedly without any proof, that he is using a tactic to discourage this, likely blackmail.

[Dick Dastardly]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/400280852_c2a7b6d6fa_o.jpg

[Really Not All That Bright]

He probably believes it. He's like Col Jessup in a Few Good Men, he is convinced that hard-headed realistic men like him are necessary to protect us weaklings, who wouldn't have the stern discipline to do what has to be done.
I think he believes in what he's done (and what he's doing now). I don't think he believes that it's for the good of the country.

If dissenting with the president in a time of war is aiding and comforting the enemy, then why isn't he guilty right now?

To be clear, I think the whole notion is a stupid idea - but if he's going to advocate it, then he should be called on it.
I don't think it's a stupid idea. I think it's a stupid idea to apply it to all situations. If an imminent danger to the United States* exists, then I think we should probably just shut up and let the President do his thing.

If no imminent danger exists- such as when we're fighting a war of aggression 8,000 miles from our shores- we should tell the President he's a fucking idiot.

*Actual imminent danger, not Cheney's "imminent danger".

[palindromemordnilap]

I don't know what he believes about the effectiveness of torture and wouldn't want to peer too closely into his brain to find out, lest I suffer Saruman's fate.

But there's no question in my mind that Cheney is willing to make any bald-faced lie if it suits his purpose, which unfailingly runs counter to American values and common decency. He argued for the overthrow of Hussein in 2002 despite having publicly stated the problems with this in 1994. He claimed to know where WMDs existed when he in fact did not. He claimed to have no hand in outing Valerie Plame when this was demonstrably false. These were not just lies, they were harmful to the best interests of America and the world and served no useful purpose--and Cheney knew it.

Caught in lies on multiple occasions, he simply brushes off accusations as if they don't exist. He has gotten away with this over the years because 1) he shows no self-doubt, shame or apology whatsoever, which gives many people the idea that he believes his own BS and therefore isn't exactly lying; and 2) he is a hard-right Republican, the one political persuasion that currently is allowed to make absurdly false statements without being universally denounced.

I don't really believe in true evil in the Sauron sense of the word--people who do evil things typically have a self-interested albeit twisted motive or a chemical imbalance or something like that--but if I did believe in Satan, his name would be Dick Cheney.

[The Second Stone]

Cheney is a nasty old coward so afraid of anything beyond his control that he whines constantly about his fears about it. We all know that he "authorized" torture and killing despite the fact that they were clearly against the law and common decency and common sense. A look at Cheney's life demonstrates clearly his cowardice and his bullying, but if anyone wants to summarize it in one incident, it is when he accidentally shot his best friend in the face and made his friend apologize.

He won't debate any of these things, he will only cast stones from the safety of friendly interviews.

[Really Not All That Bright]

He argued for the overthrow of Hussein in 2002 despite having publicly stated the problems with this in 1994.
That was Rumsfeld, wasn't it?

[freedumb2003]

Yes, it makes sense to make it so that everyone who tries to protect the USA goes after a lawyer instead of life saving intelligence.

I hope the next attack is over your house (or hovel). That would be the only justice available to someone who wants to pursue people following the law as expressly stated at the time.

Waiting for Fitzmas? This, like so many other stupid democrat investigations will yeeld nothing except a waste of taxpayer money and time and distract those on the front line against our enemies (you know, those that have ALREADY attacked us).

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.

[Really Not All That Bright]

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.
You should probably try coming up with a coherent argument.

And for the last time, douchenozzle...

IRAQ = / = 9/11

[BrainGlutton]

I hope the next attack is over your house (or hovel). That would be the only justice available to someone who wants to pursue people following the law as expressly stated at the time.

By whom, John Yoo? :rolleyes:

[wierdaaron]

Iraq equals divided by equals 9 divided by 11?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Not quite what I had in mind. How about...

IRAQ =^.^= 9/11

eta: dammit!

[wierdaaron]

I never did trust those kittens.

[elucidator]

That's Hitler.

[wierdaaron]

You know what else was Hitler?

Oh, I guess it doesn't work in that instance.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

That's Hitler.
Hitler was a kitten?

Damn Nazi kittens!

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Hitler was a kitten?

Damn Nazi kittens!

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigboardbest.pl?289:1

[Chimera]

Somewhere in a parallel universe, Dick Cheney is The Penguin.

I'd really love to see him get some kind of treatment in the The Venture Bros Universe, ala Kissinger (aka Dr. Henry Killinger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9M4WnUmV0w))

[Ichini Sanshigo]

Hitler was a kitten?

Damn Nazi kittens!

The sad reality is that Nazi kittens are just as cute as regular kittens. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1598#comic)

(Mouseover the red dot underneath)

[descamisado]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/400280852_c2a7b6d6fa_o.jpgWhere's 'Berto?

We all know that he "authorized" torture and killing despite the fact that they were clearly against the law and common decency and common sense.There's no way he could have done this; he was not the President.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Yes, it makes sense to make it so that everyone who tries to protect the USA goes after a lawyer instead of life saving intelligence.

I hope the next attack is over your house (or hovel). That would be the only justice available to someone who wants to pursue people following the law as expressly stated at the time.

Waiting for Fitzmas? This, like so many other stupid democrat investigations will yeeld nothing except a waste of taxpayer money and time and distract those on the front line against our enemies (you know, those that have ALREADY attacked us).

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.

Time to feed the trolls:

Tell me about the true, red, white and blue Americans that just said, "Yes, according to the law, the way it is written, I am guilty and will accept my punishment." Among those can we count William Calley, the cabal of thieves and liars in the Nixon administration, Scooter Libby, the Iran/Contra scoundrels, etc., etc.? None of those guys used lawyers to try to avoid justice, or did they?

stupid democrat investigations will yeeld nothing except a waste of taxpayer money and time

In your life (that is marked by poor grammatical skills) have you heard of the "Whitewater Scandal" where $70 million of taxpayer money was used to investigate a sitting President for being involved in a deal before he was elected where he lost $35 thousand? For the $70 million all they could come up with was some illicit blowjobs. Great use of taxpayers money that was.

I hope the next attack is over your house (or hovel).

What a crock of shit by another chickenhawk who probably doesn't know the first thing about actually being in danger. My kid was less than four blocks from the WTC when it was hit. He literally didn't know if the building might fall on him before he could get out. Don't preach your shit to me you ignorant fool. Comments like yours are sickening even if it is just trolling. I'm smart enough to know that no matter how close I am to sacrificing everything it doesn't give me or anyone else license to become a criminal. Cheney is a chickenhawk who wouldn't put his own ass on the line when asked to but wants others to satisfy his sick, sadistic fantasies.

The only thing that keeps me from sleeping at night is the sick fucks that make excuses for people like Dick Cheney. They are the ones that are the danger to the United States, its Constitution and the rule of law.

Go live in some fascist state if you get comfort by being under the rule of some megalomaniac psychopath like Dick Cheney. He missed his calling. He would have been much more effective heading up the SS in the Third Reich.

[R. P. McMurphy]

Now, Herr Cheney will decide whether he will cooperate with the Justice Dept.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090830/pl_nm/us_usa_cia_cheney_1

This is precious. I just wish we could only get Eric Holder to waterboard Cheney 183 times to get the information he wants out of him. Certainly, Big Dick wouldn't mind getting the treatment.

[elucidator]

Apropos of nothing, I got to wondering if an electromagnetic pulse could be created that would cause a pacemaker to explode. Just wonderin'.

[The Tooth]

Not without roasting the surrounding tissue, dammit.

[elucidator]

Well, shit! That's too bad. Still, if you have the schematics handy, might take a look, just for curiosity, you understand....

[elbows]

I'm not sure exactly you expect us to prove people are not politically retarded.

I'm looking at it this way, they chose Obama over McCain.

Having elected GW to two terms, I'm reading this as less retarded than they used to be. But that's just me.

[The Tooth]

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy?

The fact that George Bush was your president and not my PM helped. I rocked myself to sleep knowing he was doing his very, very best to keep you safe and not me.

Well, shit! That's too bad. Still, if you have the schematics handy, might take a look, just for curiosity, you understand....

I can't do that! Imagine the consequences if such technology as the Cheneyossitor were to fall into the right hands.

[gonzomax]

Cheney and Bush believed the ends justified any means used. They had no respect for laws, rules, standards, practices or conventions. But when they are through ,we are law breaking, people who care nothing about the standards and laws we once proclaimed as a measure of who we were. We have become neo-cons. We are a nation that will ignore a nations sovereignty, its laws, our laws or world conventions. That is what they made us into and I resent it. The shining light on the hill has become a torturer. It has dungeons and will kill you if you cross it or have something it wants.

[Rubystreak]

I don't know what he believes about the effectiveness of torture and wouldn't want to peer too closely into his brain to find out, lest I suffer Saruman's fate.

I have nothing of substance to add to this thread, but wanted to say that this comment did make me laugh. Good one.

[crowmanyclouds]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/400280852_c2a7b6d6fa_o.jpgThere's an abandoned Media Markt in Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandau_Prison) that might still be for rent.

CMC fnord!

[Der Trihs]

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.After years of watching us do our best to show the world that we really ARE as evil as the terrorists say, I find myself unable to care about 9-11 anymore. And we attacked a nation that had nothing to do with 9-11, and tortured people who were just innocent bystanders. You being a good right wing American don't care ; like all good right wing Americans your life is devoted to spreading misery and death for the sheer joy of it.

[kaylasdad99]

Cheney and Bush believed the ends justified any means used. They had no respect for laws, rules, standards, practices or conventions. But when they are through ,we are law breaking, people who care nothing about the standards and laws we once proclaimed as a measure of who we were. We have become neo-cons. We are a nation that will ignore a nations sovereignty, its laws, our laws or world conventions. That is what they made us into and I resent it. The shining light on the hill has become a torturer. It has dungeons and will kill you if you cross it or have something it wants.You show promise, young Padawan.Originally Posted by freedumb2003
How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.After years of watching us do our best to show the world that we really ARE as evil as the terrorists say, I find myself unable to care about 9-11 anymore. And we attacked a nation that had nothing to do with 9-11, and tortured people who were just innocent bystanders. You being a good right wing American don't care ; like all good right wing Americans your life is devoted to spreading misery and death for the sheer joy of it.Now THAT'S how it's done! Ring the Bell, Trihs!

Let the record show, FWIW, that I agree with the substance of both of the above posts.

[elucidator]

....In an interview on Fox News Sunday, Mr. Cheney described himself as being isolated among advisers to then-President George W. Bush, who ultimately decided against direct military action (against Iran).

"I was probably a bigger advocate of military action than any of my colleagues," Mr. Cheney said in response to questions about whether the Bush administration should have launched a pre-emptive attack prior to handing over the White House to Barack Obama...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125164376287270241.html

Offered without comment, none being necessary.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Third war lucky?

[SteveG1]

Yes, it makes sense to make it so that everyone who tries to protect the USA goes after a lawyer instead of life saving intelligence.

I hope the next attack is over your house (or hovel). That would be the only justice available to someone who wants to pursue people following the law as expressly stated at the time.

Waiting for Fitzmas? This, like so many other stupid democrat investigations will yeeld nothing except a waste of taxpayer money and time and distract those on the front line against our enemies (you know, those that have ALREADY attacked us).

How can you people sleep at night, knowing you are undermining our country and providing aid and comfort to the enemy? You should re-watch coverage of 9/11 and tell us again how we should coddle these evil enemies.

You fucking moron. I was born and raised in New York - You know, that place that was attacked. I had relatives who were just lucky enough to be able tor retire before the buildings were destroyed (they worked there) - some relatives were inside during the first (botched) attempt, back in the Clinton years. You try making long distance calls, at all hours of the day and night, trying to find out if your relatives are OK. I used to work practically next door at 40 Wall Street every summer myself. How about you shut the fuck up?

Asshole.

[Sampiro]

The psychologist at Nuremberg recorded Hermann Göring as saying

Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

I've gotten to where I think of this whenever I see Cheney, and of the fact that Göring had the common decency to be in a prison cell (http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/images/in%20his%20cell.jpg)when he said it.

[BrainGlutton]

Rachel Maddow does Dick! (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090914/secretgov_video) (Will wonders never cease!)

[Sampiro]

Eeek!

Somehow in the post above the dingo ate half the Göring quote (the most important half at that). It should have read (missing part highlighted):

Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.