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Enderw24
12-28-2000, 01:57 PM
Yes, yes, it's a year and a half late. But I'm searching through the archives and I don't see a single thing about it. Now, either I'm just not doing a good enough search (which would be my guess) or all the Trekkers out here on the boards just missed the boat.

So let's talk about the series finale to Deep Space 9.

OK, I have to say I was extrememly dissappointed in the resolution to all the story arcs. Lets take a few of them to start off with.

Ezri Dax. What were they trying to accomplish with this character? Was she to be used to help Worf sort through Jadzia's death? Hey, he could do that on his own. Was she supposed to be comic relief in a bumbling "I was never trained to be a trill host," sort of way? You can only stretch that premise so far before we expect a bit more depth to the character.
The fact is that she came in at the worst possible time and, instead of fighting the uphill battle, just gave up and rolled the rest of the way down. As much as I disliked Nicole De Boer as an actress, that was nothing compared to the unneccesary time suck her character and story took from the whole arc.

Gul Dukat and Kai Winn
OK, I like Gul Dukat. He's a great character and the actor, Marc Alaimo, plays him well. Kai Winn is fine too. She's been set up as someone who would turn to the "darkside" if the opportunity presented itself. The problem is how they went about it. She learns about Dukat being Dukat, and not a prophet from a farm area, and then does a 180 on her conscience in a single episode. Prolong it a bit! Let us see her struggle through two, maybe three episodes. Oh, you don't think there's time? May I direct your attention to...

Vic Fontaine
sigh.

Captain Sisko
When you became one of those prophets at the end, that was cool. But did you ever think about maybe saying "Goodbye" to your son? You managed to squeeze in a few seconds for your wife. What about the person who has loved you and been with you your entire life? What about the person who you promised you would never abandon. Oh yeah, guess that slipped your mind.

those faceless aliens whose name eludes me
What is under their mask? Maybe a few of the missing plot points. Like why they were brought in, in the first place? They didn't do anything. They brought no military strategy with them, just more ships to get blown up. They had zero character development. They were just faceless aliens who are supposed to remain an enigma to us. Got news for you writers, mysteries only become mysteries if we're interested in solving them. Why don't I remember their name? Because it was never important for me to remember. They weren't really an alien race, they were Generic Scary Plotpoint (TM).

the story as a whole
DS9. Listen to me. Please believe me. If your episodes weren't interesting, I wouldn't have bothered tuning in. Look at Voyager for example. But you threw away so many opportunities in this last year. You wasted so much time on irrelevant side plots. I'm not asking for every episode to deal with the war, but it sickened me to see the war plot get rushed through when so much time was spent on crap episodes that had nothing to do with it. I loved the secret agency and Bashir even though it had nothing to do with the war. But most of the distractions were crap. Utter complete piles of feces.
The ending, with Sisko and Dukat above the Pit of Despair (or whatever it was called), was about as cliche as it comes.

There were so many things I liked. The founders. The Gem Hadar and Weyoun. But overall they could have done better. They should have done better.

andyman
12-28-2000, 02:22 PM
Sheesh. I switched cities right before the final season and pretty much missed the whole thing. (Oh! Let's show this popular syndicated show at 2:00 a.m.! On Sunday night! They'll be sure to find it!) Sounds like I got lucky. One thing though, could someone please tell me just how Jadzia got killed?

xizor
12-28-2000, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by andyman
Sheesh. I switched cities right before the final season and pretty much missed the whole thing.

I did the exact same thing. And whenever I did catch it, it was an irrelevant filler episode and they were always dealing with the major plots twists from the previous episode (which I missed). Never failed. So how did Jadzia die?

Dinsdale
12-28-2000, 02:34 PM
This rather casual ST fan seems to recall hearing that some of the discontinuity in DS9's final season was due to them expecting one more season than they got, and then having to end things abruptly. There just isn't enough ST stuff available on the net to answer this type of thng, huh? (JOKE)

Regarding your specific points

Ezri Dax. Totally worthless. Whatever the hell they were trying to do with her, they didn't succeed.

Gul Dukat and Kai Winn Dukat was cool. Kai Winn just got boring. And the final farmer Dukat sucked.

Vic Fontaine weak attempt at comic relief, apparently their primary goal the last year or two.

Captain Sisko Boy, he really was cool as Hawk, wasn't he? He didn't say goodbye to his son, because he agreed with viewers that his son was the worst fucking actor ever to cross a TV screen.

those faceless aliens whose name eludes me The Breen? Unspecified badass muther fuckers. They recently showed up on Voyager. You are right. No development. The series probably peaked a year or two before the end, when the Jem Hadar were the toughest thing going.

the story as a whole I agree. It sucked.

Take heart. The new series Planet Ferengenar is right around the corner.

Ethilrist
12-28-2000, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by xizor
[QUOTE]So how did Jadzia die?

Gul Dukat got himself possessed by a Pah wraith and surgically altered to look Bajoran, travelled to DS9, broke into the Bajoran temple one night so he could open up the Orb box and infect it with the Pah Wraith, which would use the orb as a conduit to go into the wormhole and duke it out with the Wormhole Aliens aka Prophets, closing the wormhole and causing much hilarity. Jadzia ran into him on the way there and he killed her. Ba-dump-bump.

andyman
12-28-2000, 02:43 PM
What?!?! Did Terry Farrel just have enough of the show, or what? Please tell me Worf got to kick the crap out of him.

AVSC916
12-28-2000, 03:00 PM
OK, so why did they take her out of the series so soon, considering that she hasn't shown up on anything else? Was she sick of going nowhere?

Same as Kess on Voyager. Why did she leave, just when her role was getting interesting? She's not shown up on anything else either.

DS9 would have been tremendously more interesting if they had allowed Odo more 'morphing' scenes, but I guess the cost of computer animation was prohibitive.

Bashir was beginning to irritate me. A pregnent Kira was a bit more than I could stand also.

The entire Gene Roddenberry series might go off better if they have other people besides the command crew having adventures. Not too many military ships have command crews running here and there, spying, fighting, getting involved in insidious alien plots, beaming down to hostile worlds or into alien ships. Plus, you kind of knew that at least one of the extra, previously unseen crewmen or women who accompanied them were going to get zapped.

I got a bit weary of everyone on DS9 browbeating themselves over personal problems, Cisco looked better with hair, Kira either always seemed too butch or attempting not very well to carry off love scenes but at least Worf stayed pretty much in his Star Trek character. I would also have liked to see more of the station than quarters, corridors, storage rooms, and the promenade.

Ceejaytee
12-28-2000, 03:03 PM
So to take them one at a time:

Ezri Dax. Ugh. The only good thing I can say for her is that she got Worf off his butt and gave him the push to go and off Gowron, the uncontrollable jackass singlehandedly destroying the Klingon Empire. But hell, anyone could have done that.

Gul Dukat and Kai Winn They gave Dukat the perfect ending when they killed off his daughter and he went insane. Fabulous. IMO, they should have never brought him back. He was unnecessary to the Pah Wraith business--anyone could have been their vessel. Plus it took time away from really showing Kai Winn turning to the dark side. They should have spent more time on that.

Which brings us to the lame ending. So the Prophets have the Sisko to protect their little Bajorans and he's got the power to do nothing but push some nutty guy into some fire? That's it? How lame is that? Talk about anti-climactic.

Vic Fontaine. Loved him in the episode where Nog moves into the holodeck after losing his leg. Otherwise he was totally pointless.

Captain Sisko. I yelled at the tv for several minutes "Hello, what about your son? Remember him?" Sheesh.

those faceless aliens whose name eludes me. The Breen were totally useless. Ooh, scary. Now the Jem Hadar and the Vorta--they were cool.

the story as a whole. For the most part, I like the last season. Kira (who I despise) with Odo (who was great), teaching the Cardassians how to rebel--excellent idea and well executed; the war against the Dominion--very nice; Worf killing off Gowran and declaring Martok emperor--fabulous; the turning of Kai Winn to the dark side--excellent idea, very poor execution. It was mostly good stuff, but where it really counted, in the whole Prophets thing, the season was junk. The most outrageous example of lousy story ideas was turning the Ferengi into the feel good aliens of the year. Hey, they're nasty, scheming, money-loving misogynistic twerps--we liked them that way, just like we like our Klingons bloodthirsty. Leave them alone!

The best characters? Worf, Garak, Odo and Weyoun, in all his clones.

Oh, and couldn't Terry Farrell stick it out for one more year? She and Worf were priceless. And no, andyman, he never got near Dukat. He had a lame episode where he gets to send Jadzia to Stovokor (sp) the place where warriors go when they die. Sigh.

Weirddave
12-28-2000, 03:04 PM
Terry Farrel decided to leave the show when she didn't get the money she wanted. The writers had to write her out quickly, and frankly, they did a bad job. Her death felt "tacked on" (well, it was)in the context of the plot, and basically had no point. And I really didn't get the fact that the Symbiot survived while the host died, since for 7 seasons we'd been told how fragile it was.

Ethilrist
12-28-2000, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by weirddave
And I really didn't get the fact that the Symbiot survived while the host died, since for 7 seasons we'd been told how fragile it was.

I always got the impression it was, 'fragile' in that days counted, not hours or minutes. There was another Federation vessel close to DS9 that Ezri was on, so she got drafted.

They were usually pretty concerned about hurting the symbiont because Jadzia was the only Trill around. Even after Jadzia died, Ezri was the only trill around. Playin' with fire, if you ask me...

andyman
12-28-2000, 03:24 PM
So Worf killed Gowran? Cool! Refresh my memory, who was Martok. (I'll probably remember as soon as this gets posted, but what the hey!)

minty green
12-28-2000, 03:26 PM
Just wanted to voice MHO that the last season was pretty solid. Yeah, the new Dax wasn't near as cool as the old one, and I never cared for all that "Prophet" crap anyway. But the whole showdown with the Dominion was pretty good entertainment. Actually, I think the show lagged a lot in the middle of its run, when they'd already established who everyone was, but couldn't seem to figure out what to do with them. The last two years redeemed it for me.

Palandine
12-28-2000, 03:29 PM
The Powers That Be should be drawn and quartered for what they did to Gul Dukat's character (although kudos to Marc Alaimo for pulling it off as well as he did).

For once a Star Trek show had done a really good job of fleshing out an enemy (cruel and calculating, yes, but also capable of great tenderness for his daughter and undoubtedly a patriot [not to mention sexy as hell ;) ]), and by the end of season 6 and all of 7 they turned him into a cookie-cutter monster--insane, no good side, red eyes and all. "Waltz" was the last good episode he was in.

The ending had a lot of problems, but I did like the way they expanded Damar's character (although it doesn't forgive what they did to Dukat) and gave a little more attention to Garak.

Still, I felt bad for Jake. His dad becomes a god and just leaves without a word. Nice.

Ethilrist
12-28-2000, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by andyman
So Worf killed Gowran? Cool! Refresh my memory, who was Martok. (I'll probably remember as soon as this gets posted, but what the hey!)

one-eyed klingon general.

Dinsdale
12-28-2000, 03:36 PM
Terry Farrell is currently in Becker, Monday nights.

Garak was my fave.
Cardassians are cool.
The guy who played Jake wins the award for worst actor EVER on a series.

Palandine
12-28-2000, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by andyman
So Worf killed Gowran? Cool! Refresh my memory, who was Martok. (I'll probably remember as soon as this gets posted, but what the hey!)

Martok was played by JG Hertzler. He was the Klingon general with one eye (cool eyepatch!) who, it's revealed in season 5, was being held in a Dominion prison and had been replaced by a Founder back home (Garak's talent with electronics busted 'em out...at the very last second, natch).

BTW, Terry Farrell is on "Becker" now, and she's pretty good.

Count me in as someone who hated Ezri. Too touchy-feely, and I'm trying to wipe the memory of the episode where she helps Garak overcome his claustrophobia by embracing his inner Cardassian or something from my mind. I LOVE Garak, he was my favorite character, but that's the worst thing they did to him next to "The Emperor's New Cloak."

I can't believe I just wrote all that geeky stuff. :D

Dinsdale
12-28-2000, 03:42 PM
Not too shabby simulpost there, Palandine!

PRNYouth
12-28-2000, 04:17 PM
I liked Ezri. I liked Jadzia, too, but there was definitely an interesting aspect about having the hulking Klingon Worf struggling with Dax's change from the strong, assured, self-confident Jadzia to the tiny, timid Ezri.

Plus I think Nicole DeBoer is darn cute. :D

I agree that some of the last season episodes were weak, and I agree with the criticism of Vic Fontaine. Never understood how his character got into the recurring character bin. My guess is that once the writers realized it was their last season, they immediately decided it would be "sweet" to end it at the bar in the holodeck, so they had to keep Vic visible to make that even slightly plausible.

Ethilrist
12-28-2000, 04:19 PM
My wife's theory was that Vic was actually one of the Prophets.

PRNYouth
12-28-2000, 04:22 PM
I am strongly in the anti-Jake camp. Cirroc Lofton (isn't that right?) was TERRIBLY weak as an actor. The episode I'm trying to block out is that horrid one where that hideous woman "helps" Jake with his writing. It's too bad they rescued Jake just in time. He would have been a more interesting character if allowed to become brain-dead -- it certainly couldn't have made him LESS interesting.

xizor
12-28-2000, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by AVSC916
Same as Kess on Voyager. Why did she leave, just when her role was getting interesting? She's not shown up on anything else either.


The online rumors I heard involved drug usage on the set. She has been in the movie "SLC Punk" where she plays a brunette and has done some voice work for cartoons in the past year.

drewbert
12-28-2000, 06:36 PM
My understanding is that the writers wanted to have the whole season devoted entirely to the war plot line, but The Powers That Be (er.. Were?) insisted on breaking up the season with bits of fluff pieces... which wasted lots and lots of time which could have been spent bringing most of the major plot points to a more satisfying end.

That said, I kinda liked seeing Dukat pose as a Bajoran farmer. He and Winn deserved each other ;-) But the last episode destroyed it all for the special-effects-glowy-eyed-monster routine.

Ezri was cute, and I liked seeing her deal with Worf, as mentioned above. It's just that it seemed like they were trying to cram 6 years of character development into 1 year for her. Enough already with the Ezri shows!

Oh, and Sisko never got the chance to finish his main mission on DS9: get the Bajorans ready for Federation membership. Just a.. minor detail. Heh.

Enderw24
12-28-2000, 07:25 PM
yes drewbert! I forgot completely about that. The entire premise of DS9 from the begining was Sisko working with the Bajorans. Well...we can only hope the prophet Sisko can do better. Though considering he now lives in all time at once I'm thinking that if he had wanted it done, it would have been done already.

FTR, I didn't dislike Jake. He was a far cry from what one would call a good actor, but he wasn't terrible either. If you believe he was, please write a 500 word essay comparing and contrasting him to Wil Wheaton.

There were a lot of good side episodes too. I thought the episode where Molly goes back in time and lives by herself for 12 years was great. The science fiction writing episode, and Hawk's character altogether were great. Unfortunately, we also had to deal with Ezri's sherlock Holmes episode. That couldn't have gotten worse in plot, writing, or acting. Vic is forced out of the casino? Cry me a river! There's a war going on.

mde427
06-06-2016, 10:21 AM
Oh, and couldn't Terry Farrell stick it out for one more year? She and Worf were priceless. And no, andyman, he never got near Dukat. He had a lame episode where he gets to send Jadzia to Stovokor (sp) the place where warriors go when they die. Sigh.


She left for the TV show Becker and job security after a salary dispute with producers. 1 more season at an unacceptable salary, or a new show, with several years security hopefully ..... had they paid her what she wanted or compromised, she would have been there for season 7.

mde427
06-06-2016, 10:23 AM
Just realized this is a SIXTEEN YEAR OLD message board I replied to ..... holy shit! Well, if you didn't learn your answers over the past 16 years - there you go!

TBG
06-06-2016, 06:40 PM
She left for the TV show Becker and job security after a salary dispute with producers. 1 more season at an unacceptable salary, or a new show, with several years security hopefully ..... had they paid her what she wanted or compromised, she would have been there for season 7.

The funny thing is she left Becker early too. Makes it seem like maybe she's got some issues. Shannen Doherty type issues.

alphaboi867
06-06-2016, 08:10 PM
I know this is a zombie thread, but I always thought it was a waste to make Ezri Dax a female. It would've been much more interesting if the next host had been male.

Mahaloth
06-06-2016, 08:15 PM
It's sad somehow it took me 1/2 way down to learn this was old. I was ready to post about it.

Yeah, ds9's last season kind of blew.

Count Blucher
06-06-2016, 08:48 PM
The funny thing is she left Becker early too. Makes it seem like maybe she's got some issues. Shannen Doherty type issues.

Its hard to say. Did she have issues? She was a star on DS9; she was eye-candy on Becker; just a nice straight-man for Danson's lines.
(But she worked solidly for several more years & several years pay on a network TV show will pay the bills. Also, I think I remember Becker failing badly at the end and maybe she wanted off of the train before it crashed.)

I never saw her work after that, although I heard some rumor that she married 'Westchester Money' and raised a family.

One night while driving and changing radio stations, some call-in show changed its format to play a set of music saying that Terry Farrell had called in & had requested a special set.
I remembered listening to the set and thinking, "Damn, you've got good taste in music too. Just not fair...."

Tim R. Mortiss
06-07-2016, 01:21 AM
Seriously? There are people who didn't like the last season of DS9? It's my favorite season of my favorite Star Trek incarnation. The whole Dominion War and how they wrapped it up was epic. Oh well, YMMV.

And, for the record, I *loved" Ezri Dax.