Is it time to stop supporting Karzai?

[the first supraliminal]

Why are we (including the UN) still standing with that guy, despite his corruption, millions of our money flowing to the Taliban, and now an election where some precints gave him ten times the number of votes as they had voters?

Do we really need to wait for the final total and for his ruling party's "process" to declare a winner and for it to be officially contested in his ruling party's court before we say "Stop. We've seen enough!"

Disputed Election (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/world/asia/07fraud.html?hp)

[Lumpy]

Even if Karzai wins, he won't be president of Afghanistan. At most he'll be president of the province centered on Kabul. Maybe only Kabul proper, and possibly only president of a secured sector.

I don't understand why the people in Washington insist that there's such a thing as a "country" called Afghanistan. One that has a central government and can actually make people in the hinterland obey laws. Would it really be anathema to admit that there's such as thing as a tribal region that's effectively without government? Even Somalia gets called a "failed state" whereas by most people's estimation there isn't a state left there to fail. In the nineteenth century, people were comfortable with the idea that there were "savage" places outside the rule of any law. Maybe it's time to return to that concept.

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Karzai is better then the Taliban. 'Nuff said.

[Squink]

Why are we (including the UN) still standing with that guy, despite his corruption, millions of our money flowing to the Taliban, and now an election where some precints gave him ten times the number of votes as they had voters?We had a chance to make something better of Afghanistan back in 2002-06. We chose words over deeds, we let corruption take hold at the top, and the Afghanis no longer trust us. No matter what we do, we cannot turn that around. We may as well leave, and let the country forge it's own destiny for a while.
If it becomes a security problem for us again, we can always go back in again, and make a fresh, honest start.

[Captain_Awesome]

Karzai is better then the Taliban. 'Nuff said.

Passing laws which allows husbands to deny food to wives who do not meet their sexual demands, and allows rapists to avoid prosecution by paying compensation to the assaulted woman is better? (link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/14/afghanistan-womens-rights-rape)).

[John Mace]

Karzai is better then the Taliban. 'Nuff said.

Are those the only choices?

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

Passing laws which allows husbands to deny food to wives who do not meet their sexual demands, and allows rapists to avoid prosecution by paying compensation to the assaulted woman is better? (link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/14/afghanistan-womens-rights-rape)).

You should realize if the US pressures the Afghans enough they will abolish the laws and this is still more progressive then the Taliban.

[Squink]

You should realize if the US pressures the Afghans enough they wil....What about if we pressure them about being corrupt assholes? Will they suddenly clean up their act?
That's so unlikely that no one would believe them even if they did.
How do you plan to overcome that credibility gap?

[Qin Shi Huangdi]

What about if we pressure them about being corrupt assholes? Will they suddenly clean up their act?
That's so unlikely that no one would believe them even if they did.
How do you plan to overcome that credibility gap?

Corruption is inevitable in Third World governments.

[Squink]

Corruption is inevitable in Third World governments.If we support it, it'll be our corruption.
If they wish to be corrupt, let them fight for their own corruption.
Americans should not have to die so that Karzai can put in a new swimming pool at his summer palace.
If the election was rigged as badly as seems likely, it's time to let Bush's puppet fend for himself.

[Frank]

We had a chance to make something better of Afghanistan back in 2002-06. We chose words over deeds, we let corruption take hold at the top, and the Afghanis no longer trust us. No matter what we do, we cannot turn that around. We may as well leave, and let the country forge it's own destiny for a while.
If it becomes a security problem for us again, we can always go back in again, and make a fresh, honest start.
I'm pretty much at this point too. We had a chance and we blew it.

I am, however, reasonably hopeful of one thing, and that is that should the Taliban take full control of the country again, they will no longer allow Al Qaeda the freedom it once had.

[Dick Dastardly]

The Taliban never had full control of the country and never will. Before we got there they were fighting a civil war with the Northern Alliance and controlled most of it but that's because they were getting a ton of military and financial support from Pakistan. All we need to do to stop them retaking Kabul is fund the Northern Alliance guys (who mainly make up the government now) and we can stop getting our guys killed. Whether the US war/oil and gas industries will be OK with this is another thing entirely but after it grinds on for a few more years with nothing getting better (and probably getting worse) Obama will probably find the stones to withdraw if he wins a second term.

[John Mace]

This is starting to look eerily similar to what happened in Iran. I understand there is realpolitk involved and everything, but it wouldn't be quite so bad if we didn't have so many troops there. How the hell do we get out of this mess? Afghanistan is not a country, and I'm afraid to never will be.

[Dick Dastardly]

This is starting to look eerily similar to what happened in Iran. I understand there is realpolitk involved and everything, but it wouldn't be quite so bad if we didn't have so many troops there. How the hell do we get out of this mess? Afghanistan is not a country, and I'm afraid to never will be.

You mean Iraq, right?

And we get out of it by getting on a plane and leaving.

[Squink]

The Electoral Complaints Commission (ECC) said returns must be recounted and audited for any polling station where more than 600 votes were recorded -- the most authorities believe should have been cast at any station -- or where any candidate received more than 95 percent of the vote if more than 100 were cast.http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090908/wl_nm/us_afghanistan_3

Fraud of this magnitude is not something Americans need to die supporting.