Guitar Building Project, Pt6 - Final Assembly – initial impressions (and one bad pic) – way too long

[WordMan]

Previous threads linked to via this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518771).

Okay – first completely inadequate pic here (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/WordMan567/2009-09Completed-firstlook.jpg).

I finally got it – lordy what a long wait. But I am beginning to think it was worth it, in a very promising way.

Bottom line: very clear on first impression that this guitar has good bones – classic Tele simple playability with an easier Gibson feel and much tighter lows. From a geek standpoint, if you go back to, I think, the 2nd of these threads, I zero in on this basic combo of Fender and Gibson as my target – so from that standpoint, it feels like this guitar nails it. But it is still very early days with this thing – I don’t expect to have it dialed-in for a while and only after some parts-swapping and other adjustments.

And it needs a black pickguard.

Let’s catch up:

So I finally got the call from Bill – after much labor and the application of Fish-eye Flowout, the body was finally done. I went and got it – beautiful, perfect. You have to see it in person or I will get a beauty shot of it – the photo you see above is like trying on a bathing suit under fluorescent lights; it does this beauty no justice at all.

After thinking about it a lot, I ended up taking it to my guitar tech Steve to wire it up. I had been planning on taking the time to do it between Christmas and New Years’ when I had time off! I don’t know what the hell *I* was thinking. Anyway, 8 months later, I have no time and was about to leave on vacation – Steve could work on it while I was away. It had been far too long and I wanted to test drive the damn thing.

I just picked it up yesterday – first impression is that: a) it really captures the target look of a Tele in 50’s Gibson Les Paul Special clothing; and b) I need to get a black pickguard. The mottled tortoiseshell blends in too much – I want that contrast and black is also a legit Gibson LP Special color. Ordered.

It is very, very light – no more than 6.5 lbs. But not neck-heavy at all – I use a leather strap with a suede underside which I am sure is a factor but I never even noticed it.

I had some problems with sympathetic vibrations coming from the strings above the nut – the string tree we installed was too far up. I had to run to Guitar Center and grab a different kinda tree – the classic Fender T shape. Of course, while installing it, I chipped the finish of the peghead. Cool – first ding; I’m breaking it in already.

Okay, so I get it home and play it – unplugged for a while at first. It is a simple-feeling guitar: the heavy-gauged strings over the flat-radiused neck have the feel of a very playable cheese-slicer: taut and articulate. The sound is loud for a solidbody – more typical for a Fender vs. Gibson. The volume is not, in my experience, an indicator of amplified tone; it merely enables you to hear the guitar’s inherent tone better. In this case, the volume allows me to hear that it is a musical-sounding guitar: the notes blend nicely, it feels very stable in its tuning and the fundamental chord harmonies sound like they want to work together. And there is a bit of bloom and sustain unplugged – the guitar resonates as a system nicely; in my experience that’s a good predictor for amplified tone.

The neck is wonderful – the Warmoth Fat carve is just how I like it: big without feeling big. Easy up and down the neck, and I don’t notice the Compound Carve (see an earlier thread) at all which I suppose is a good thing – just very playable. No impression of the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard – not focused on that right now.

So with that basic first impression, I am inclined to trust the guitar – I think I can get a good tone about it, so the question is how it will sound through the amp. I say “the” amp because I really only want to play through my Tweed Deluxe replica, a simple, very dynamic and articulate amp that I rev up with my Rat distortion pedal. With my first project Tele, it produces a perfect tone: equal parts Malcolm Young, Pete Townshend and Keith Richards.

I plug it in. A few power chords, Open G’s and various riffs later, I find it to be way too much Malcolm and not nearly enough Keith – too much compression in the mid range, not enough open space within the tone. A bit too nasal, if you can hear that. But the lows – the lows are perfect. I can bear down with palm-mute chunking and get a thunk like a great metal song; crisp and clear. And there is a lot of string separation – there are clearly separate strings, and you hear the blending – notes stack up into chords well, and isolated strings jump out when I spit out a lead or pluck some strings in counterpoint inside the main chords.

This goes on all day – I find myself wanting to play it, and liking how playing it feels, but finding it too harsh – if only I could blow out the nasal tone a bit. I keep fiddling with tone combinations – lots of different pickup options, but since I can’t find my fastball – my solid bridge pickup tone – I am lost. Very frustrating – never fun to not get a great tone right out of the gate – leads to dangerous second guessing – did I blow the pickups? I even lowered the bridge pickup a bit so they became a tad less responsive – this took some of the edge off which I found encouraging. But maybe the body really does suck and have a nasal tone I am not hearing unplugged? Nah – I don’t hear that and I trust my ear. Well, given what I have heard, I really blame the electronics – I have to go back and research the parts I got; I assume I dialed up pots or caps that are mis-matched to the pickups so I am filtering out some of the good stuff by mistake. I can hear the beginnings of a good tone with the Tone control down to about 1-2 or so, which just doesn’t feel right. And backing off the pickup height and taking edge off supports my thinking that the electronics aren’t mic’ing this plank correctly, but the plank itself is fine. I decide I really like how the guitar plays and how it sounds unplugged, but there must be something wrong with the circuitry because I don’t hear that coming through. I was talking myself through the basics: if I like how it played, I have to keep my changes focused and lop off a few basic branches of inquiry first – a mis-matched pot would be an easy culprit and an easy rule-out; I will check my notes when I next power up my work laptop.

Then, today, I played it through my main gigging amp.

Whoa – I found it. This amp is a two channel, master volume amp, albeit a very high end fancy boo-teek one. It is a very flexible amp – and very forgiving, with a nice thick tone. It is a humbucker to my Tweed’s single coil – humbucking pickups produce that Classic Rock big, thick chord, whereas single coils are individual and articulate and are more likely to expose shortcomings in your players, so the story goes.

Well, that’s the difference between my two amps: one is ornery for fun and the other is robust to get the gigging job done. I hadn’t even thought about starting with the robust one to get a feel for the guitar without sweating the tone, but I hit a few chords and the hindsight was obvious. I don’t know my way around this guitar at all, why try to master it through the more particular amp? In a few minutes I found my anchor tone, a solid bridge tone with equal parts Malcolm, Pete and Keef; okay, a bit more Malcolm still, but in a cool, sharp way. And I can switch to the clean channel and find a couple of very usable clean tones with the Tone control in the same basic setting as on the Crunchy channel. Excellent.

I guess the most important thing is that I hear a much more solid connection between the tone I am after and what is coming out – I gotta live with this thing for a while and make some decisions about the electronics – do my research about pot and cap values and what changing them might do, while getting more comfortable with my gig amp and finding how to work the guitar, then moving back over to the Tweed to see what I can pull out of it. I swear, it is like breaking in a new baseball mitt, or shaking down a new racing engine – you have to listen and feel what the thing’s natural tendencies are and then sit with them a while so you can work out your best theory – find the tweak that doesn’t throw the system out of true. Patient work; but I waited long enough for the damn thing, I might as well hang in and get it right. At least I know it has good bones.

I’ll keep you posted – I will swap in the black pickguard and figure out a way to get better picks; and when I have the tone dialed up a bit better, I will record a clip or two via my drummer and figure out how to post them so you can hear what I am trying to write about....and if you made it this far, thanks for reading.

[Made in Macau]

Wow - thanks for posting.
Been following from the start, agree about the pickguard but mainly - thanks for the exposition.
MiM

[BubbaDog]

I practice my scales and chords to try to improve my skills and Wordman reminds me of how important the ear is to a musician.

Great post. Can't wait for more pics and sounds.

[squeegee]

Hey, WordMan, Didja end up with the pickups you described in this poist (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10365566&postcount=4), straight-up tele bridge pup + "P-Rail" and a splitter switch?

[squeegee]

ETA: I should have looked at the picture in the OP: it looks like a Duncan "P90" and a Duncan SC in the bridge, no doubt the Jerry Donahue model.

[Enter the Flagon]

It's a fine looking specimen, alright, but you're 100% correct - no little lost lamb has ever cried for its mommy as desperately as this axe is crying out for a black pickguard. The change will be dramatic and stunning. Getting a bit jealous over here.

I've never played any guitar with a P90, but I like the idea of bolting one on a Tele - how would you describe the difference?

As a Strat guy, I kinda like those Teles that have the Strat pickup inserted in between the bridge and neck pickups - but a basic Tele still sounds fantastic to me, and mine was the most versatile axe I've ever owned, unless the 3 p'up Nighthawk was. Might have to check Ebay for some deals on used ones. There's some fantastic deals out there right now - thanks for the inspiration!

[lieu]

Having followed your efforts, you had me worried for a bit there, what with all the time and skill you'd invested. But then, voila, out comes a healthy, strappin' 6.5 lb baby. Somehow, somewhere, sometime I'm going to have to see and hear this thing in person.

Nice, WordMan, very nice.

[WordMan]

ETF - happy to nudge you on. The new Roadworn Tele's that I have played are a great deal for a solid guitar, if you don't care about or like a relic'd finish.

lieu - thanks. I do need to get a better picture. It's really cool.

squee - The pickups are what I targeted: The Duncan Jerry Donahue vintage Tele-type bridge pickup and a P-Rail, just like you remembered. You can't really make out the single-coil blade pickup tacked next to the P-90 - the blade is on the neck side of it.

Right now, the pickups are a mess and I must blame operator trouble. I jumped in feet first and there are too many settings - remember, I wanted to have a lot of variety to try a few things out; the intent is to wait a year or so then simple down the circuit to the few settings. Right now I can split the neck pickup to blade coil only, P-90 coil only, both humbucking in Series and both humbucking in Parallel - and then I can combine that pickup with bridge pickup and of course just run the bridge pickup only. Too much for me. I just wanted:

- To be able to see if I am preferring a P-90 vs. a humbucker in the neck - which do I like for Black Crowes / Rolling Stones type of riffs? P-90's are typically more raw - like a nasty overgrown single coil, not thick and smooth like a humbucker tone.
- To have some single-coil cleans up at the neck - I wanted to see if the blade pickup on its own could delivery Stevie Ray Pride n' Joy type tones or could deliver a clean 80's rock sound for cover songs in the band.

But I am so focused on just getting comfortable with the guitar that I am not ready to explore the various settings yet - I don't have a firm enough anchor point yet. But the bridge pickup - jeez, it's the *same pickup* as the one I have in my first project Tele. Unless Seymour has really changed his specs - and he typically has solid QC - then the difference is just amazing. When someone says that the pickup has more influence over the tone vs. the body, I have to ask if they have ever assembled a guitar or switched pickups. It's the body - I am pulling very different sound out of this one. Now, granted, I have to check out the pots and caps, but even if I lower the nasality, the basic tone profile is still markedly different. Body material and neck scale matter - much more than pickups (unless you are playing such hot pickups that they override the body's tone).

[Crotalus]

Congratulations on finally getting your hands on this guitar. My ignorance of tone and the terminology for it make some of the descriptions above hard to penetrate for me, but I'm glad you are having fun with it.

And I agree about the pick guard. :)

[kenobi 65]

Like Crotalus, I'm not able to follow all the technical details of this tale (I'm too much of a novice yet in the world of guitars), but I've found it very entertaining and educational. May you happily grow into the new baby, WordMan!

[WordMan]

Thanks guys - and yeah, sorry about the geekery.

I'm on my way to Chicago for a business trip - I'll pick it back up when I get back...should be fun.

[squeegee]

Right now I can split the neck pickup to blade coil only, P-90 coil only, both humbucking in Series and both humbucking in Parallel - and then I can combine that pickup with bridge pickup and of course just run the bridge pickup only.

Where is the five-way switch for all this? I don't see it in the picture. Also, what are the vertical stripes I see in the pic? An artifact of the flash? A reflection?

[squeegee]

Also, what are the vertical stripes I see in the pic? An artifact of the flash? A reflection?[looks at the unfinished body pic in the previous threads..] Oh. Doy: wood grain. I thought Korina tended to have swirly colors or grain.

[tacoloco]

Where is the five-way switch for all this? I don't see it in the picture. Also, what are the vertical stripes I see in the pic? An artifact of the flash? A reflection?

The pickup selector switch is directly forward of the volume control. It's probably a 5 way tele switch. It also looks like there's a micro switch between the volume and tone controls which also factors into it.

[WordMan]

Standard Tele 3-way switch and a mini-toggle between the V and T to split the neck coils...

...And like I said, it's a bad photo. The grain looks just like mahogany IRL...

Just landed in Chicago - off to a meeting.

[WordMan]

a HA!

This is the email I just sent to Steve:

Okay – I went back and checked schematics (see above) – I can see two potential issues based on our conversation when I picked up the guitar:

1. on the “Wiring for a Neck Humbucker” schematic I used for my *last* Tele build project, it shows a .22 cap between the volume and tone, not a .47 which I believe you said you installed.
2. The pots are both 500K, in support of having a humbucker / P-90 in the neck. BUT – there is supposed to be a .270K resister between the Bridge pickup at the Volume pot, to knock down the pot’s value so the bridge pickup thinks it’s dealing with a 250K or so pot, not a 500K one. I checked the P-Rails schematics I had mailed to you and they don’t address that issue and I could not remember if I had sent you the Tele + Hum schematic so you could reference it. Did you include a .270K resistor between the Bridge pickup and the V pot?

So I think either one of those – or both – could be driving the “congested” tone I am hearing. Also, I was wrong: even though I swapped out the string tree/guide, I am still getting sympathetic vibrations. I am hoping you can do something that doesn’t involve totally obstructing the cool, fancy-shmancy decal I have on their (I know: humor me).

So can you take a look at the vibrations and while you are at it, switch the .47 to a .22? I can buy an oil-and-paper old school .22 cap from RS Guitarworks; that is supposed to be a big deal. As for the .270K pot I don’t know if that needs to be anything special; I think a standard one is fine – do you have one if we need it?


For what it is worth, and as I have mentioned in previous posts, I don't get electronics at ALL. I have NO idea why the single coil bridge pickup is better matched with a 250K pot, or the electro-physics behind why a .270K resistor knocks down a 500K pot's value so it can look like a 250K (well, 230K I suppose) pot - I am just trying to go back and review the clues and solve the mystery.

I got back from my trip to Chicago last night and played it unplugged while I watched Jeter tie Lou Gehrig. This is an excellent guitar - unplugged it gives a lot of feedback - by that I mean that when I play, the guitar sounds better when I play with better technique, so it encourages better playing; I like guitars that demand focus and quality but reward it with better tone. In this old thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=519966), I linked to a video comparing a vintage Les Paul to a new one; to my ear the vintage guitar was an education in unplugged tone. This new guitar is closer to the vintage than the newer Les Paul - with some of that richness and dimensionality. Most importantly, it feels good to play and makes me want to play it more - when you get down to it, that's what really matters.

Now I gotta get its guts adjusted. ;)

[An Arky]

Very, very nice, WordMan!

[WordMan]

Thanks An Arky!

I just heard from my tech and I was right on both counts - the capacitor should have a different value and there should be a resistor between the bridge pickup and the volume pot. I am totally psyched - these two changes could explain everything (or not, but they could at least clear out the big problems I am hearing now).

I have ordered a vintage style capacitor from a specialty guitar website - since this cap is in the tone circuit, I want one that is old style for reasons I have gone on about in previous threads - they are inefficient but in a musical way ;). I have one in my first project Tele and love how that sounds.

So I will have to wait a week or two, get the parts, drop it back off with Steve and see how it goes from there. In the meantime I can keep playing it unplugged to see what other tweaks it might need, such as the string vibrations above the nut. And hopefully I will have received the black pickguard by then, too...

So far, so good.

[BigShooter]

Jeez, I've missed out on some shit, eh? Where have I been...

Congrats, Wordman, on your build. I'm glad it turned out ok for you. As I was reading through the thread, the first thing I thought about the nasally tone was the pots and caps. I was going to suggest a .22 cap and the transistor trick, but I see you're way ahead of me...

Have fun with it...:)

[WordMan]

Jeez, I've missed out on some shit, eh? Where have I been...

Congrats, Wordman, on your build. I'm glad it turned out ok for you. As I was reading through the thread, the first thing I thought about the nasally tone was the pots and caps. I was going to suggest a .22 cap and the transistor trick, but I see you're way ahead of me...

Have fun with it...:)

Thanks! So far, it *is* fun - and even the initial setback felt more like a challenge I could overcome than a sign of failure - the guitar felt and sounded too good.

We'll see when I get the parts!

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Apologies for the hijack, but since all the guitar gurus are gathered here:

What the heck did Billy Gibbons mean when he said* "Always keep it in the key of G Demolished"?


*On an episode of "Bones".

[WordMan]

Apologies for the hijack, but since all the guitar gurus are gathered here:

What the heck did Billy Gibbons mean when he said* "Always keep it in the key of G Demolished"?


*On an episode of "Bones".
My guess is that it is a simple play on words: there is a chord - a jazzy one - called G diminished. And since Billy G is more demolished than diminished, I think he's making a Funny.

[WordMan]

Update - email to a buddy of mine:

Okay,

I tried to take it easy today – a mellow day to process what’s been going on. Was looking into my pickups:

- Okay, so my Duncan Jerry Donahue is higher output than I thought – about 7.8k ohms, which is on the high side of a vintage-style pickup

- In looking up other pickups, I am finding that Duncan has the clearest explanations (yay good marketing and service) and it turns out that his Alnico Pro II Lead Tele pickup has a lower output (about 6.2 ohms and it says that it has a “warmer, rounder tone with a somewhat spongier bass” vs. their other Tele pickups. Since I am getting such tight lows out of this guitar, this may provide a better balance to this particular body.
- Doing other research, I found this line: “I've found that the hotter pickups get more compressed sounding and tend to push the mids or low mids a bit more.... “ which makes sense – and since I am feeling like the mids on this set up are being pushed too far, this could be a way to open it up a bit more…

My buddy Mike has a couple of Tele pickups lying around from previous experiments. I am going to ask about the models – if either is close to the Alnico Pro II, I may borrow one and try dropping it in. Or, if I wait a bit but decide I need to change, go ahead and get the Alnico and see how it sounds. Again, with Duncan – we’re talking about $60…

Something to think about…

***********

Okay - it turns out my friend is interested in buying my current pickup, so I went ahead and have bought the new Duncan - I will swap it in and see if it works.

I am also talking with my drummer about getting a couple of simple sound clips that I could post - I'll do what I can...

[squeegee]

So, wait -- are you tossing the Jerry Donahue or the P-Rail? Or both? And how does either impact the cap and pot for that pickup? And if its the P-Rail that's getting tossed, what becomes of that micro switch in your setup?

ETA: thanks for the update, this is really interesting seeing you go through the steps in swapping things in and out. More detail please when you're ready.

[WordMan]

So, wait -- are you tossing the Jerry Donahue or the P-Rail? Or both? And how does either impact the cap and pot for that pickup? And if its the P-Rail that's getting tossed, what becomes of that micro switch in your setup?

ETA: thanks for the update, this is really interesting seeing you go through the steps in swapping things in and out. More detail please when you're ready.

Swapping out the Jerry Donahue in the bridge - to see if putting in the lower-output pickup will take out some of the mids in the tone and unclog it a bit. Shouldn't impact the cap and pot; the pickups are in the same range so match with the same components. Microswitch stays - I honestly haven't paid attention to the P-Rail yet (I mean, I have been using it, but not really focused on its tone) since I am focusing on the bridge pickup right now.

I played with my band for the first time in a while - but it ended up being unplugged at the last minute due to a spousal late-work emergency and no babysitter for one of the band members. Bummer - I had been hoping I could show up early for a loud practice and get a couple of sound samples recorded. Maybe next time.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

My guess is that it is a simple play on words: there is a chord - a jazzy one - called G diminished. And since Billy G is more demolished than diminished, I think he's making a Funny.

Got any examples?

[WordMan]

Got any examples?

Of G Diminished? Sure - I Googled this (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chord-images/g-diminished.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/g-diminished-chord.html&usg=__k0FlrCZ2_3Zim_1nwcdyGN5sunU=&h=806&w=226&sz=10&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=tELwHdMN0npEKM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=40&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dg%2Bdiminished%2Bchord%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS320US321).

Got one black pickguard - matte black, single layer (no white edging). You know what? It isn't right either - just kinda lies there. Perfect for a butterscotch blackguard Tele, but this needs more pop. Returning it and ordering a gloss black with a white layer.

Pickup ordered.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Of G Diminished? Sure - I Googled this (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chord-images/g-diminished.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/g-diminished-chord.html&usg=__k0FlrCZ2_3Zim_1nwcdyGN5sunU=&h=806&w=226&sz=10&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=tELwHdMN0npEKM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=40&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dg%2Bdiminished%2Bchord%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS320US321).

Hmmm. I'm not sure what I meant by that.

[squeegee]

Got one black pickguard - matte black, single layer (no white edging). You know what? It isn't right either - just kinda lies there. Perfect for a butterscotch blackguard Tele, but this needs more pop. Returning it and ordering a gloss black with a white layer.You know, I thought exactly that when you said you were getting a black pickguard, and I restrained myself from posting that you should get a black-white-black one. That SG-look you want really demands it, IMO, glossy and out there, no restraints.

[squeegee]

BTW, when you get that new 2 or 3-layer pickguard on, can we get one more totally crap picture of how it looks? :)

Sorry, cheap shot, but I can't believe your household can't dig up a camera that can take a good pic + the expertise to post it. Can I help?

[WordMan]

BTW, when you get that new 2 or 3-layer pickguard on, can we get one more totally crap picture of how it looks? :)

Sorry, cheap shot, but I can't believe your household can't dig up a camera that can take a good pic + the expertise to post it. Can I help?

No worries - and yeah, I stink as a picture-taker and my wife, who is great, wouldn't have the patience to work with me (understandably so ;)). However, hope is in sight - a buddy of mine is a pro photographer (it is good to live in the NYC area - he does fashion shoots, has helped with the SI Swimsuit Edition, etc.) and he has agreed to come and take some shots of my guitars. With this project Tele, I am finally in a spot where I have a few guitars that are all keepers and I need nice photos for both insurance purposes and to use as wallpaper on my PC! Not exactly sure on the timing, but should happen in the next month or so...

...and yeah, I think you're right about the b/w/b - hopefully it will arrive in a day or two and I can install it. The new pickup already arrived from eBay on Saturday but I didn't install it due to soccer games and the need to wait for the 2nd pickguard to arrive later this week. I hope to install them this weekend along with the fancy, old-school, oil-and-paper capacitor I got (if I can find room for it in the control cavity; it's big!).

[squeegee]

...and yeah, I think you're right about the b/w/b - hopefully it will arrive in a day or two and I can install it. The new pickup already arrived from eBay on Saturday but I didn't install it due to soccer games and the need to wait for the 2nd pickguard to arrive later this week. I hope to install them this weekend along with the fancy, old-school, oil-and-paper capacitor I got (if I can find room for it in the control cavity; it's big!).You know, looking at the pickguard on my 70's SG, the material is actually black-faced, but the edges are w/b/w, not b/w/b; this seems to give it more 'pop' because you see the white edges against the black even looking face on. I'm not sure if this is typical or not for a Gibson.

[WordMan]

You know, looking at the pickguard on my 70's SG, the material is actually black-faced, but the edges are w/b/w, not b/w/b; this seems to give it more 'pop' because you see the white edges against the black even looking face on. I'm not sure if this is typical or not for a Gibson.

Interesting. Well, I ordered mine from Warmoth and it is coming hopefully in a few days - we'll have to see how it looks...with better photos!

[squeegee]

My SG pickguard detail here (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/squeegee64/pickguard.jpg). And here (http://www.leadguitars.fr/images/gibson-sg-standard-hc.jpg)'s someone else's "batwing" pickguard, which has pickguard layering the same as my older SG.

[WordMan]

My SG pickguard detail here (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/squeegee64/pickguard.jpg). And here (http://www.leadguitars.fr/images/gibson-sg-standard-hc.jpg)'s someone else's "batwing" pickguard, which has pickguard layering the same as my older SG.

Yep - those are 5 layer 'guards vs. 3 layer - a whole 'nother level of Fancy! Gibson also does 5-layer and 7-layer bindings and pickguards, etc...

[squeegee]

I guess it depends on if you want your axe to feel dressed up. The 5-layer pickguard gives it a tuxedo feel. Are you going for SG or Melody Maker esthetic? Concert cellist or working class Joe? Both are perfectly fine approaches, but IMO that raw-meat color pulls toward the fancier side. If you had binding on the body or neck, that would cinch the choice. But you don't, so it could go either way.

[WordMan]

I guess it depends on if you want your axe to feel dressed up. The 5-layer pickguard gives it a tuxedo feel. Are you going for SG or Melody Maker esthetic? Concert cellist or working class Joe? Both are perfectly fine approaches, but IMO that raw-meat color pulls toward the fancier side. If you had binding on the body or neck, that would cinch the choice. But you don't, so it could go either way.

Well I am really going for a 50's Les Paul Special - see a photo here (http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/1778641/p1_ubzjskxcr_so.jpg). Hmm, in looking at it, it has the 5-layer like your SG...oh well, I will stick with my paltrey little 3 layer for now - well, once I get it. Seriously, it doesn't strike me as that big of a deal, as long as there is enough white to make the pickguard pop a little more agains the raw-meat cherry color...

[squeegee]

Well I am really going for a 50's Les Paul Special - see a photo here (http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/gear/1778641/p1_ubzjskxcr_so.jpg). Hmm, in looking at it, it has the 5-layer like your SG...oh well, I will stick with my paltrey little 3 layer for now - well, once I get it. Seriously, it doesn't strike me as that big of a deal, as long as there is enough white to make the pickguard pop a little more agains the raw-meat cherry color...

Hard to say until you see it in place. I will note that that 50's Les Paul Special had binding on the neck, so they've got a somewhat fancy-pants scheme going. Having said that, I'm sure your 3-layer will be fine.

[WordMan]

Update: I swapped the pickguard. Much better - see another lousy pic (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/WordMan567/2009-10withblackpickguard.jpg).

Also working on the electronics, and soldered in a new pickup but I think I blew one solder. Been traveling for work and the weekend is full of kids' soccer games so no clue when I can get back to this. Grr.

[squeegee]

Update: I swapped the pickguard. Much better - see another lousy pic (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n86/WordMan567/2009-10withblackpickguard.jpg).

Also working on the electronics, and soldered in a new pickup but I think I blew one solder. Been traveling for work and the weekend is full of kids' soccer games so no clue when I can get back to this. Grr.

Awesome! That pickguard is perfect, the white layer makes it pop out really well, and the neck pickup disappears right into the shiny blackness. I'd be really pleased if I were you -- that pickguard binds the whole look of the guitar together IMO.

Also, soldering builds character, so tuff it out. Ah, the smell of rosin in the morning... :)

[WordMan]

Awesome! That pickguard is perfect, the white layer makes it pop out really well, and the neck pickup disappears right into the shiny blackness. I'd be really pleased if I were you -- that pickguard binds the whole look of the guitar together IMO.

Also, soldering builds character, so tuff it out. Ah, the smell of rosin in the morning... :) And this new lousy photo IS lousy, but at least you can get a better sense of how good the Gibson Heritage Cherry finish turned out - nice raw-steak IMHO...which, I suppose in this case, is the only O that matters! :D

Thanks - and I agree. What's that line from the Big Lebowski? How the carpet really brings the room together? ;)

And I hear you about solder - and I have no problem with the fact that I blew a joint and need to re-do it. What I can't handle is that, to revisit what should be an hour-long fix-it session, I have to wait a week or more...especially when it feels like I am getting close. I can get sound out of the new bridge pickup; I can just tell I don't have a solid connection. But what I hear sounds like it has possibilities. Oh well, I'll find out in a week or two - argh!

[An Arky]

I'd hit that!

[Crotalus]

The pickguard is much better, in fact I agree with squeegee that it's perfect, and the finish looks beautiful. I'm surprised we're even allowed to look at it. ;)

[Crotalus]

I'd hit that!
That's a quarter-inch input. Shrinkage?

[WordMan]

That's a quarter-inch input. Shrinkage?

::snerk!::

[An Arky]

With my pick...sheesh! :o:rolleyes:

[Crotalus]

With my pick...sheesh! :o:rolleyes:
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. A weak moment.

[An Arky]

Too easy, I know...

[River Hippie]

Looks good, glad you're happy with it. It's a great feeling when they turn out good!

[WordMan]

Looks good, glad you're happy with it. It's a great feeling when they turn out good!

Thanks to you and everybody. And yeah, it feels great - especially if I was correct in how I adjusted the pickup to better balance with the mahogany body (when I finally get around to being able to fix my solder joint!). Knowing that I can trust my ears - and design a guitar that I want to perform a certain way - and it actually does - is really very cool.

[squeegee]

And this new lousy photo IS lousy, but at least you can get a better sense of how good the Gibson Heritage Cherry finish turned out - nice raw-steak IMHO...which, I suppose in this case, is the only O that matters! :DYeah, the finish looks really nice. It looks more brown than cherry, but I blame the photograph - flash photography really screws up colors sometimes. I await better pictures, please post when you get some!

and I have no problem with the fact that I blew a jointDude, maybe you'd have fewer issues if you stopped blowing joints when you work on your guitar. :D

[WordMan]

Yeah, the finish looks really nice. It looks more brown than cherry, but I blame the photograph - flash photography really screws up colors sometimes. I await better pictures, please post when you get some!

Dude, maybe you'd have fewer issues if you stopped blowing joints when you work on your guitar. :D

:smack:

And I will try to get pics over the next few weeks, along with sound samples.

[squeegee]

Hey, WordMan, I was curious what your guitar would look like with binding, so here (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/squeegee64/2009-10withblackpickguard_binding.jpg)'s an attempt to add it digitally. I just did the neck; I tried adding binding to the body as well, and couldn't come up with a convincing image. I can't tell if I like it better with neck bonding or not; I suppose I'd need to see the whole guitar to really get a good impression. FWIW, I also corrected the white point, and the guitar finish looks much more cherry.

[WordMan]

Hey, WordMan, I was curious what your guitar would look like with binding, so here (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn66/squeegee64/2009-10withblackpickguard_binding.jpg)'s an attempt to add it digitally. I just did the neck; I tried adding binding to the body as well, and couldn't come up with a convincing image. I can't tell if I like it better with neck bonding or not; I suppose I'd need to see the whole guitar to really get a good impression. FWIW, I also corrected the white point, and the guitar finish looks much more cherry.

Jeez, how cool is that? Gotta love technology. There are websites that allow you do design guitars using a simple CAD/CAM type of program - but not as cool as what you did with a real photo.

fwiw, I am happy with how this guitar turned out looks-wise; I am cool with no neck binding (never a big fan anyway) and will almost definitely go with binding for my next project guitar whenever that is - will most likely be a semi-hollow Tele Deluxe type with an F-hole on one side and the body binding...

[squeegee]

will almost definitely go with binding for my next project guitar whenever that is - will most likely be a semi-hollow Tele Deluxe type with an F-hole on one side and the body binding...Just curious - how would that differ from a Tele Thinline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Telecaster_Thinline) design?

[WordMan]

Just curious - how would that differ from a Tele Thinline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Telecaster_Thinline) design?

Yep - that's one. There are a few semi-hollow Tele designs with a variety of different pickguard shapes to go with the pickups - some semi-hollows have that standard Tele pickups and others feature humbuckers, etc...

[WordMan]

I don't think this is too old to be zombified yet...

Well - it's done. I was able to re-do the solders for the new bridge pickup and get the old school, oil-and-paper capacitor swapped in place of the ceramic one I put it while tweaking the circuit. I had Steve move the string tree (so now the first screw-hole looks like a little bullet hole on the peghead - I will likely not fix it...), and also cut down one of the height-adjusting screws on the bridge so it doesn't dig into the palm of my picking hand.

I love it - it turned out perfect. It is basically a Gibson sounding instrument that has the simple control layout, sensitive Volume and Tone controls and articulate string response of a Tele - just what I wanted it. Real Tele lovers won't like the fact that it doesn't have much twang, but it's exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I spent a little time on both my gig amp and my Tweed and it was great with both - I hate to sound like a wine weenie who comments about how little stuff like the cork or bottle size affects how a wine ages :rolleyes: but that little, expensive oil-and-paper cap seems to have really helped - combined with the lower-output pickup, I get a rich distortion that sounds warm and pleasing to the ears, not harsh and biting. Yay. And when I select both pickups, and set the fancy P-Rail neck pickup to P-90, I get a full "Keith Richards hitting the opening chords to Start Me Up" kinda tone - big, but not loaded up with gain like an AC/DC chord...

Okay - I will get to work on photos and sound samples - given my work schedule that may take a few weeks - and then I will post a final thread and shut this project down. Mission accomplished. ;)

[kenobi 65]

Huzzah!

[squeegee]

I'm glad for you that it all worked out. I don't claim to understand even a little what you did with the pots and capacitors that made all the difference, but its great you got what you wanted. Congrats!

Insert usual request for pix and audio samples, but it's been done to death. Please remit (smiley).

[WordMan]

I'm glad for you that it all worked out. I don't claim to understand even a little what you did with the pots and capacitors that made all the difference, but its great you got what you wanted. Congrats!

Insert usual request for pix and audio samples, but it's been done to death. Please remit (smiley).

Yeah - sorry about the geekery; all I can say is that the difference between Keith Richards' riff on Start Me Up vs. Malcolm Young on Highway to Hell is how much there are mids in the tone - Malcolm has more. Keef is known for studio work through a Fender "Blackface" Deluxe Reverb amp - Fender's Blackface circuits are described as "scooped mids" tone because they push less on the mids when you overdrive the amp vs., say, a Marshall. Having less mids leaves more space in the tone - which is why with the Start Me Up riff, you hear each note almost like he's playing an organ, not a guitar.

There are a lot of ways you can vary the amount of mids - the materials and parts on the guitar, the amp you use, how you set your tone controls, etc. I wanted something that sat in the sweet spot of that Keith <--> Malcolm spectrum, where I could use the Tone and Volume controls to get me from one end of the other based on how I set them. The first circuit I set up was just plain wrong because I missed some things when I mentally fused two schematics together. Once corrected, the basic sweet spot was pushed too far to the mids-heavy side - and overloaded mids sound - well, there was that U2 song off of the (somewhat failed) Pop album - it starts with the Edge playing with a super-compressed tone - sounds like an angry wasp. THAT is a way-too-mid-heavy tone. In listening hard to it and reading up on line, I decided to swap in a lower-output pickup - lower output puts, you guessed it, less emphasis on the mids. And it worked.

The capacitor - well, supposedly; even though I think I clearly prefer it, it still feels a little pretentious - basically you put a capacitor between the Volume and Tone pots, right? And when you dial down the Tone control, you, in effect, turn on the capacitor to suck part of the signal into its storage capacity, right? Well, near as I can tell, the old oil-and-paper cap does this in a gradual way - as you are dialing, it gradually creeps us, grabbing more signal - whereas with a modern cap, it is much more efficient - it absorbs a more clearly defined spectrum of the signal. So the oil-and-paper cap's inefficiency sounds more rich and full and less like a tone with its highs just lopped off cold - kinda like wood grain looks more natural vs. a plastic finish - there's imperfections that our eyes appreciate. Which I could do a better job of describing it but the notes sound more organic and full...