I made a SDMB-improving Greasemonkey script. Looking for feedback/beta testers

[wierdaaron]

Quick intro for those who don't know: Greasemonkey is a Firefox extension that lets you create/download javascript files that can automatically be run in your browser when you visit a certain website. For example, you can re-arrange links, move distracting content, and so on. Note that this only applies to your browser, and doesn't affect the actual website for anybody else.

Anyway, I've been working on a script for the past few days to address some of the problems I've had since I showed up on your doorstep last month. The major features of the script follow:

Member Trait Badges

This is actually the reason I started making this script in the first place, though I think it may be the most controversial.

Basically, since I'm new here and don't know everything about many people, I've found it sort of difficult to understand the context of everybody's posts. For example, if a liberal made a sarcastic joke about conservatives, and I didn't know he was a liberal, I might not know it was a joke. In topics about religion, it's hard to remember who are the self-professed atheists and who are the religious ones. Not knowing these things can seriously damage the context upon reading.

So I made a system whereby traits about members can be cataloged, and so a handy badge appears next to their name on all of their posts.

For example, here's someone who's democrat and an atheist (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2006m%2020s.png).

Here's a republican. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2008m%2058s.png)

Here's someone who gets a bonus badge for being a member since 1999. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2005m%2016s.png)

Here's republican tea-party gun owner who's been here since '99. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2006m%2042s.png)

(Note that this data isn't necessarily accurate at this point, I just put in some dummy data for testing, though I tried to only apply a trait to someone if they have publicly claimed it. Crafter says he's not a republican, for instance, so he shouldn't have that badge)

And here's one that's surprisingly useful: someone's who's a doctor (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2007m%2058s.png).

I did a search for "IAAD" and recorded everybody who has claimed to be a doctor and has it as their occupation in their profile. Later, I looked in a thread where I'd asked a few medical questions and saw that some of the people who responded were doctors, and I had no idea at the time. Context!

The badge system works like this: there is a google spreadsheet (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2040m%2010s.png) where I can add someone's username and then mark the traits that apply to them. Then, whenever you view a forum thread, the script pulls that spreadsheet data from Google, then compares the names of all of the posters on that page with the names on the spreadsheet. Because it pulls the remote data on pageload, as soon as the data changes on the spreadsheet it will be reflected for the script's users. Basically, everybody's script is always up-to-date. If the spreadsheet can't be reached, no badges will be applied. No out-of-date information.

The actual images are held in another spreadsheet that caches in your browser, and updates daily, so "traits" can be added, removed, and updated constantly without end users needing to manually update anything.

The reason this might be controversial is that people might see it as prejudicial, like a scarlet letter. Me, I see them more like merit badges or bumper stickers. Because everybody with the script sees the same data, nobody can be left out by having a "judgy" badge applied to them.

I can open the spreadsheet's permissions so multiple people can maintain the data, and Google lets you review or undo any change in the document's history, so there'd be checks and balances and no possibility of hijacking.

If I were to release this script publicly, I'd probably have to institute a rule where traits can only be applied at a user's request.


Highlighting Your Own Posts

As I'm browsing threads, I tend to jump around a lot, skimming quickly to try to find where the last place I left off is. Usually, I'm most interested in finding my posts and seeing if anybody has replied to them and called me a doo-doo head.

So I made it that if you're logged in, all posts by you have a noticeable border so you can't miss it: like this. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2028m%2034s.png)

Also...

Highlighting Replies to Your Posts

When somebody quote-replies to you, your quote shows up in a similarly-highlighted way (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2013m%2057s.png).

That way, you can more quickly spot when someone's talking to/at/about you.

Flag Specific User's Posts on This Page

Sometimes there's a thread, like an "Ask the..." thread, where you're most interested in keeping track of one person's replies. Often I'm doing a Cmd-F search on the page to find the guy's next reply.

So I added a little button (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2015m%2031s.png) on everybody's posts that lets you flag all of that person's posts on that page.

When you click it, that post (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2015m%2057s.png) and all others from that person (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2016m%2032s.png) get a green border. So they're easier to spot.

Also, when you have somebody flagged and somebody quotes them, that quote gets highlighted as well (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2016m%2050s.png), so you can see who's talking to the user you've flagged.

You can flag multiple people at once, though they'll all be the same color. And this all works on a page-by-page basis, so that person's posts wont be flagged anywhere else.

Image Link Hover-Preview Thingies

While I agree with the limitation on this forum that prevents putting images inside of a post (that can make for some ugly chaos), it can be a bit inconvenient to have to click many links to see many pictures (like in this post).

Soooo... I've made it so the script detects when a link is to an image, and puts a little photo-icon next to the link. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2019m%2027s.png) While this is in itself quite useful, letting you know when a link will get you an image, the real magic happens when you mouse-over that icon: a preview of the linked image hovers next to your cursor. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2019m%2050s.png) It's quite lovely.

---------------

If anybody knows how to install a greasemonkey script and would like to beta-test it, shoot me a PM.

If anybody has some suggestions or feedback about features, shoot me a PM.

If anybody is a javascript whiz and would like to contribute in some meaningful way, shoot me a PM.

If anybody hates me and everything about me, I'll shoot you some BM.

/Mods, if you think this would be better in MPSIMS or IMHO, feel free to move it.
//Staff, if you are thoroughly impressed with my skills and fortitude and would like to offer me gainful employ within Chicago, I'll entertain offers.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

I must say that these are pretty bad ass. :cool:

Though if I were a doctor, I'd thank you not to use a picture of House. I'd want to be considered a professional and not [Insert Bad Words That House Is]. :p

EDIT: To expound upon why I believe these are bad ass. For years upon years people have wanted avatars to help keep track of people using images instead of just their names. The problem with that is that pictures can be changed as frequently as you wish, making it hard for people to keep track. Plus there is always the problem of Really Fucking Annoying avatars.

Using a well designed, static and professional image next to someone's name is a damn good start to help keep track of certain people's quirks, beliefs and views.

[wierdaaron]

You wouldn't believe how long I tried to find a picture that represents "doctor" at 40 pixels high, and not just "here's some guy with a tie"

[Covered_In_Bees!]

How 'bout a stethoscope? Or maybe a picture of a nonHouse person with one of those old school mirrors on top of their head? Or would that give the impression of "mad scientist" instead?

[TubaDiva]

Staff discussion over, thread moved back. Go to.

[Ponderoid]

The badge system works like this: there is a google spreadsheet (http://www.aarondunlap.com/images/sdmb/Screenshot%202009-09-13%2019h%2040m%2010s.png) where I can add someone's username and then mark the traits that apply to them.

I'm not familiar with Google spreadsheets, but as a DB person, I'm cringing at that table layout. Is there any way you can normalize your structure so that you don't have to add a new column and a hella lot of empty whitespace every time you come up with a new icon?

[Trepa Mayfield]

That seems like a really cool idea, and as soon as I figure out what a Greasemonkey Script is, I'd love to try it out.

[Half Man Half Wit]

Great idea, and great work you put into it. I'd actually been thinking about figuring out how to create something like your 'badge' system (I always loose track of who all mortally insulted me -- being vindictive and having the attention span and memory of a chipmunk is just such a frustrating combination!), but then decided that would be too much like real work to put any effort into. Now, figure out a way to implement a working SDMB search, and I'll sacrifice three black chicken in your name to a deity of your choice.

[MOIDALIZE]

Gender badge?

[Liberal]

Reiterating my original post (which apparently was lost when the thread was removed), I'm on board for testing. I have IE8 running on an AMD processor — just the sort of arrangement for ferretting out all the little gotchas.

By the way, wierdaaron, fantastic job. Not just the coding (which remains to be seen, honestly.) But the conceptualization. It is just an outstanding idea.

[Liberal]

You wouldn't believe how long I tried to find a picture that represents "doctor" at 40 pixels high, and not just "here's some guy with a tie"The old Caduceus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caduceus.svg) might be doable.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

I'm coming in a bit late to this discussion, I suppose, but here's my two cents:

NOTE: In this post, I'm speaking strictly as a user of the SDMB, not as a moderator.

Conceptually, neat-o. As noted below, none of your links work, so I haven't been able to actually see what it would do, but it sounds great.

I'm concerned that every single one of the links I followed from the OP gave me a "bad response from server" page. After several refreshes, I was able to see one on the badges, but I'm worried that with that kind of server performance, anyone using the scripts might have SDMB slowed down considerably.

Are you saying that you would be taking charge of updating that spreadsheet personally, forever? That's quite a volunteer commitment. Or would it be open for others to modify, in which case we'd have vandalism issues to worry about.

Please PM me with instructions for loading the script. I'd like to give it a try rather than just speculating.

Thanks for putting in so much work on this.

[Liberal]

I'm concerned that every single one of the links I followed from the OP gave me a "bad response from server" page. After several refreshes, I was able to see one on the badges, but I'm worried that with that kind of server performance, anyone using the scripts might have SDMB slowed down considerably.Yeah, the links are broken for some reason. (He might have taken them down, pending the outcome of all the broohaha.) But the scripts will run locally on our own machines. They will in no way affect the SDMB server period. The SDMB server won't even know they exist.

What happens is, a browser sends data to a server, and says, "This is the information I have for you. (Like Username and Password, for instance.)" The server sees that and responds by dumping data to the browser. Then the connection is over. Dropped. Done. Finished. Completed. Ended.

The browser takes over, formatting the data sent to it by the SDMB. Its interaction with the SDMB is finished until another link or button on your page is clicked. Some of us use CSS (Cascading Style Sheets), for example, to override what your server sends. BUT THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE OR INVOLVE A RECONNECTION TO YOUR SERVER. Same same with these scripts. They engage only AFTER the SDMB server has dumbed its load and disengaged.

ETA: Just hoping that helps you better understand how the whole thing works. :)

[Brainiac]

I think the suggestion is moronic. I hope this thread is deleted. I get tired of self-appointed Gotcha Police who never let you forget anything you said. Grow up! Let the current comment be the one you respond to, not all prior items taken out of time and context. That stuff is for the nastiest political hacks.

[Guinastasia]

Will they be put back up? I was really hoping at least to see what they look like.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Yeah, the links are broken for some reason. (He might have taken them down, pending the outcome of all the broohaha.) But the scripts will run locally on our own machines. Ah, if he took them down, that would explain it.

They will in no way affect the SDMB server period. The SDMB server won't even know they exist.

(snip)

ETA: Just hoping that helps you better understand how the whole thing works. :)Yes, I understand that (I used to teach computer science), and I have no concern about the SDMB's servers. You'll note that my post clearly said I was speaking for myself as an SDMB user, and carefully said that "anyone using the scripts might have SDMB slowed down considerably."

I realize that it wouldn't affect the performance of the boards for people who didn't have the script.

[Liberal]

Yes, I understand that (I used to teach computer science), and I have no concern about the SDMB's servers. You'll note that my post clearly said I was speaking for myself as an SDMB user, and carefully said that "anyone using the scripts might have SDMB slowed down considerably."

I realize that it wouldn't affect the performance of the boards for people who didn't have the script.:smack:

God, I'm an idiot. Very sorry I misunderstood you. (In all fairness, though, your modifier was dangling.)

Note to others: It could be possible that your SDMB experience (but not the SDMB server) might be slowed down if the little icon images are kept on remote servers. But my understanding is that they will be cached right along with the scripts themselves. So, translation: First time open page, maybe just a bit slow (and maybe not); after that, usual blazing speed.

[wierdaaron]

Sorry, my web server went down this morning so the example images weren't available.


After several refreshes, I was able to see one on the badges, but I'm worried that with that kind of server performance, anyone using the scripts might have SDMB slowed down considerably.


Those images are just on my personal server. The script itself doesn't interact with my server at all. The only third party it deals with is Google, specifically because they tend not to go down.

Are you saying that you would be taking charge of updating that spreadsheet personally, forever? That's quite a volunteer commitment. Or would it be open for others to modify, in which case we'd have vandalism issues to worry about.

I can allow read/write access to anybody with a gmail/google account and wants in. Consider it like the Wikipedia model. Yeah, some people might vandalize it, but there's enough people with an interest in accuracy that vandalism will be undone.

I'm not familiar with Google spreadsheets, but as a DB person, I'm cringing at that table layout. Is there any way you can normalize your structure so that you don't have to add a new column and a hella lot of empty whitespace every time you come up with a new icon?

Believe me, I wish it could be done easier. It would be best if I could have it running off of a SQL database, so editing could be more automated, but the advantage with google spreadsheets is that they're not going to go offline randomly like someone's personal server might, and they aren't bothered by the bandwidth costs of multiple people hitting the script constantly, like someone with a limited hosting plan would be.

The good news is, the spreadsheet data is fed to the script as an xml feed, with gzip compression, so the wasted space isn't too much of a concern. Since there's no way to do dynamic queries, it has to be laid out line that. Plus, the layout makes more sense when you consider the way it looks in xml (every user is an <entity> with the traits inside of it).

I think the suggestion is moronic. I hope this thread is deleted. I get tired of self-appointed Gotcha Police who never let you forget anything you said. Grow up! Let the current comment be the one you respond to, not all prior items taken out of time and context. That stuff is for the nastiest political hacks.

I wish I had some trait badges for you so I could know if you're joking. The use of the word "Gotcha" is just... just precious. At any rate, as I said, if this were to go public all of the traits would be completely at the discretion of the "target". If you don't want something being put next to your name, it will be removed. In fact, it could be entirely voluntary ("Please attribute the following things to me:...") etc.

Except for a few dummy entries I made to make sure the badges work right, I only applied a trait to a user if they unequivocally applied it to themselves. For example, I used a recent atheist/theist survey to find out who's an atheist; I looked for users who had self-identified as doctors more than once, and so on.

These aren't "this guy sucks because he made fun of me once" badges. Remember: everybody sees the same badges, so people aren't going to use it as a record of who has scorned whom.

Everybody else, thanks for the support/feedback. I'm glad that our silliness of last night has been resolved.

[Trepa Mayfield]

I think the suggestion is moronic. I hope this thread is deleted. I get tired of self-appointed Gotcha Police who never let you forget anything you said. Grow up! Let the current comment be the one you respond to, not all prior items taken out of time and context. That stuff is for the nastiest political hacks.

God, I hate it when people remember I'm a doctor!*


*not actually a doctor

[wierdaaron]

Note to others: It could be possible that your SDMB experience (but not the SDMB server) might be slowed down if the little icon images are kept on remote servers. But my understanding is that they will be cached right along with the scripts themselves. So, translation: First time open page, maybe just a bit slow (and maybe not); after that, usual blazing speed.

Right. The reason I handle images the way I do is so that there wont be any unneeded delay. Greasemonkey scripts aren't applied until the page has already finished downloading, so they don't hold anything up. If there is any kind of delay (spreadsheet server being slow, or the javascript engine being sluggish) the only perceived delay will be in how long it takes for the script's changes to activate. The forum page will load like normal, things will seem normal for a few seconds, and then the script effects will take place.

In this sense, it's even better than if these changes were on the server-side, because then everybody's browser would be held up by the javascript calls.

Right now, the images are cached inside the browser and only-reload if it's been more than 24 hours since the last caching. I'm examining how this affects performance. It might be alright to cache on a weekly basis (though if any new badges were added, they'd be missing out on them for a week), or it might be better to not reply on firefox's sloppy memory management to store it at all.

If I could find a place to store the images where the bandwidth wouldn't be a concern, and there'd be little chance of the server ever going down (mine can be a bit wonky, since I have a lot of scheduled cpu-heavy database routines running on it for other websites), it would probably better to have the images remotely hosted so they can be treated and cached like any other browser image.

[Chronos]

I don't know if I personally would use this. That said, though, it's a good idea, and I'm sure many other folks would find it useful.

One request, though: Just as there's currently a "doctor" badge, there might also eventually be a "scientist" or "physicist" badge. In which case the atom logo that you're currently using for "atheist" might become confusing. Perhaps a pink unicorn for atheists, instead?

[Liberal]

@ wierdaaron

Again, kudos to you for a great undertaking. We're fortunate that you found us in this little corner of the 'Net. I thought you might want an explanation (at least, a better one) as to why the admins freaked when they saw this, aside from the usual protocol business and all that.

There was a time, almost ten years ago, in an even older vBulletin version than this one, when people could actually post HTML tags. We used them for everything from bolding text to displaying tables.

And then...

Some jackass — some wretched wraith who doubtless smelled like Jeffrey Dahmer's breath — posted some code that replaced the SDMB banner with something of his own. I don't recall whether it was obscene, or self-advertising, or just plain stupid.

But ever since, it has been like climbing Pike's Peak to get any sort of customized thing done, even something so simple as skins to help make the board more readable, or updates to vBulletin. The anal-retentive nature of the admins is almost understandable under the circumstances.

Anyway, just wanted to fill you in. (And humbly request that you add "Libertarian" to your political persuasions. The usual symbol is the Statue of Liberty's head and crown.)

[Randy Seltzer]

You know what would be really nifty? If someone could set this up so that everyone could maintain their own google spreadsheet and the greasemonkey script linked to that instead of one centralized database. This would solve a couple of problems: It would avoid the political bickering. "Someone set me to 'Cat lover!' I fucking hate cats! Who is messing with me!?!?" It would allow you to add your own "asshole" icon. I mean what's really more important: remembering how someone wants to be perceived, or remembering how you perceive someone? It would prevent complaints about updating the database - if it's out-of-date, it's your own problem. I love this idea, and would write such a script myself, but I lack the expertise. Before my old computer crashed, I maintained a spreadsheet of everyone on the SDMB: their age, sex, profession, area of expertise, level of ass-hole-ery, political bugaboos, that sort of thing. It was not a big deal to maintain my own, and I'd do it again if it could be linked up to the board visually.

[Kal]

I like the highlighting, flagging posts and image preview; don't like the trait buttons at all.

[Liberal]

It would avoid the political bickering. "Someone set me to 'Cat lover!' I fucking hate cats! Who is messing with me!?!?"But they wouldn't know. Neither would anybody else. Only you would see it.

[wierdaaron]

You know what would be really nifty? If someone could set this up so that everyone could maintain their own google spreadsheet and the greasemonkey script linked to that instead of one centralized database.

This would be possible now, you'd just have to set up your own spreadsheet, publish it, and change the url within the script. Maybe I could make a tutorial for that. That might defeat the "spirit" of the whole thing, though, since everybody's already afraid of being labeled an asshole.

And liberal, I was thinking about some other professions that would be good to know about, like lawyer (Denny Crane icon?), but how many scientists or physcists are there here? My understanding of the internet is that it's mainly 14 year old Pokemon fans, and anybody more intelligent is a black swan. And I don't like the atheist icon very much, but apparently it's the only established one (google image search for "atheist symbol" and you'll get a ton of them). I was thinking about doing Flying Spaghetti Monster, but at 40x40 it just looks like a blob.

For people who just don't like the trait thing, I could either make it toggleable on/off by changing one line of code, or I could have it be a separate script entirely from the more harmless highlighting/thumbnailing features. Further, I could make it so that, at anybody's request, their name could be added to a do-not-trait list.

[wierdaaron]

Oh, and I thought since you changed your name from Libertarian to Liberal, you switched from being a Libertarian to a Liberal.

[Trepa Mayfield]

This would be possible now, you'd just have to set up your own spreadsheet, publish it, and change the url within the script. Maybe I could make a tutorial for that. That might defeat the "spirit" of the whole thing, though, since everybody's already afraid of being labeled an asshole.

No, I think that would be a good idea. That way, you could add things that are more relevant to you personally.

[Liberal]

@ wierdaaron

Yeah, the atheist icon is well established. It is the official symbol used on atheist grave stones by the US military at Arlington. But to answer your question, there are lots and lots of scientists — physicists, cosmologists, astronomers, mathematicians, biologists, and oodles of others here. There are professional musicians, from guitar players to opera singers. There are lawyers, doctors, Wiccans, Christians, Muslims, and even philosophers. (Tisthammer himself once posted in a thread here.)

Depending somewhat on the forum, the intelligence level varies on a continuum from dumb as a stump to average to above average to members of Mensa to members of TOPS. (I'm pretty sure we have no Giga members posting here. I think there are only 8 world-wide.)

Regarding my name-change (which I don't recall mentioning), that was all explained some time ago, and in several locations. Feel free to search. But I am basically doing my small part to reclaim the label from authoritarians, who have attempted to abduct it in the late 20th century US. Liberal is from the Latin root, liber, meaning "liberty". I am a liberal in the Classical Tradition (http://mises.org/liberal.asp), and in the way it is used throughout most of the world. My political philosophy is the same now as always. I advocate allowing peaceful honest people to pursue their own happiness in their own way.

[Randy Seltzer]

This would be possible now, you'd just have to set up your own spreadsheet, publish it, and change the url within the script. Maybe I could make a tutorial for that. This would be fantastic, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who would use the hell out of it. I PM'd you to sign up.Oh, and I thought since you changed your name from Libertarian to Liberal, you switched from being a Libertarian to a Liberal.Hoo boy.

[MsWhatsit]

For people who just don't like the trait thing, I could either make it toggleable on/off by changing one line of code, or I could have it be a separate script entirely from the more harmless highlighting/thumbnailing features. Further, I could make it so that, at anybody's request, their name could be added to a do-not-trait list.

The trait thing is kind of fun for now but I can see where it might get old. Having the ability to toggle it off would be good.

[Randy Seltzer]

Sorry, just saw this.But they wouldn't know. Neither would anybody else. Only you would see it.Yes they would see it. If they were also running the Greasemonkey script, and said script drew from a centralized database.

That's why I propose allowing people to maintain their own personal databases. No one know's what 'badges' you have given anyone if no one else can access your database. It's like the ignore list.

[wierdaaron]

Yeah, the atheist icon is well established. It is the official symbol used on atheist grave stones by the US military at Arlington.

Really? Wow, I would not want that at all. To me, it'd look like my grave stone was saying I was part of some sci-fi cult, or I thought I was from the future or something. I think trying to make it look all "sciency" is a mistake, and only fuels the sentiment that it's "christians vs big bad SCIENCE." Science shouldn't be a faction, it should be a fact.

I actually like the idea of a pink unicorn better. Takes itself less seriously. Atheists take themselves too seriously sometimes*.

*as sometimes approaches infinity...

[Liberal]

Sorry, just saw this.Yes they would see it. If they were also running the Greasemonkey script, and said script drew from a centralized database.

That's why I propose allowing people to maintain their own personal databases. No one know's what 'badges' you have given anyone if no one else can access your database. It's like the ignore list.Ah. Gotcha. You're quite right, thanks. :)

[Liberal]

I actually like the idea of a pink unicorn better. Takes itself less seriously. Atheists take themselves too seriously sometimes*.

*as sometimes approaches infinity...The Pink Unicorn, of course, is mildly — only mildly — insulting to people of faith. But we've been called everything from idiots to delusional, so I think most of us can handle the IPU thing. (In case you're scratching your head, going, "Huh? Why would that be even mildly insulting?", keep in mind that the IPU — Invisible Pink Unicorn — was conceived as a means to mock people of faith.)

I'm curious, though, how you knew about my name change. Have you lurked for, like, seven years or something?

ETA: You could consider a light bulb for atheists, since you want to get away from all the seriousness. Silly atheists these days like calling themselves "brights".

[The Tao's Revenge]

So the user post flagger is one of those things I'm not sure how I lived without it before. The icons are cool, but maybe a smaller icon would be better. It'd look tidier.

Love the idea.

[wierdaaron]

Sorry, just saw this.Yes they would see it. If they were also running the Greasemonkey script, and said script drew from a centralized database.

That's why I propose allowing people to maintain their own personal databases. No one know's what 'badges' you have given anyone if no one else can access your database. It's like the ignore list.
Yeah. Only potential problem is that the process for adding an image is kind of arduous as it is now. To maintain a level of ease where anybody could be expected to maintain their own database, they'd probably have to continue to draw from the "centralized" database of images.

Perhaps it'd be better if people could maintain their own database of notes about people, like "he's the one who thinks tomatoes are vegetables" or "met the president" or "Battlestar Galactica fan." Since that'd be simply a more advanced form of keeping a notebook, compared to the badge thing which instantly strikes some people as being "branded", it would go over better.

This would be in addition to the central database of badges. Everybody sees the same badges, but you only see your own notes. Or a few people could share the same notes db if they wanted. Then come the cliques.

[Guinastasia]

I like it -- it's cute. Are there any other things though that should be added, just in case?

[Liberal]

Then come the cliques.Oh, honey, that boat sailed a looooong time ago.

[wierdaaron]

The Pink Unicorn, of course, is mildly — only mildly — insulting to people of faith. But we've been called everything from idiots to delusional, so I think most of us can handle the IPU thing. (In case you're scratching your head, going, "Huh? Why would that be even mildly insulting?", keep in mind that the IPU — Invisible Pink Unicorn — was conceived as a means to mock people of faith.)

I'm curious, though, how you knew about my name change. Have you lurked for, like, seven years or something?

ETA: You could consider a light bulb for atheists, since you want to get away from all the seriousness. Silly atheists these days like calling themselves "brights".

Yeah, the pink unicorn is sort of the same as FSM, except I think FSM might be less insulting than FSM, since... I don't even know. I've been on both sides of the religious/atheist debate, and I still don't fully appreciate or understand it. This is why I went with the pre-existing atheist symbol, even though I don't like it, so I wouldn't have to take the rap for editorializing with the icon choice.

And re: your name, I think when I first showed up here I found you agreeing with me a lot, or vice versa, so I was kind of following your adventures, and then somebody linked to an old pit about you from a few years back where you were referred to as "Libertarian" and I eventually realized you must have gone through a butterfly-esq metamorphasis at some unspecific point.

[wierdaaron]

I'd like to get some feedback on this:

Regarding the "flag this user's posts" feature, I plan to add a color selector so that you can flag several people with different colors to track the back-and-forth within a tread.

I was thinking, though, that people might like to flag people on a semi-permanent basis, rather than just on a single-page basis. Like make it so a few people's posts are always flagged red, a few always green, so you can spot some friends/enemies' posts wherever they may be.

The problem is, I can't think of a clear way to differentiate between "flag only on this page" and "flag always", so the easiest would be to just make the flag button always be "always."

Would you want this, or would you prefer for it to be on a page-by-page basis?

(I'll be adding an "unflag" button as well, naturally)

[Liberal]

@ wierdaaron

Thanks for explaining that. The implication of familiarity was a bit... well, disturbing.

Regarding the atheist atom symbol, I can see where your concern about the unnecessary (and frankly stupid) rivalry between faith and science comes in. But the reasoning behind the officlal symbol is simply that atheists are, by definition, materialists. And the atom symbol is a pretty good representation of a materialist philosophy.

Maybe for scientists like physicists, you could use a beaker. For pseudo-sciences, like biology, you could use a mortar board. For lawyers, the scales of justice. For musicians, an eighth note. Etc. Hope those ideas help.

Oh, and for philosophers: a raving lunatic. "All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher." Ambrose Bierce

[NAF1138]

This is a fantastic idea. I would say the flag posts function you asked about should be on an everything basis by default if you can always unflag quickly.

Sending a PM to help test this. The flagging posts thing would be great for mafia games.

[Green Cymbeline]

I love it!! It's fantastic. Sign me up! (I will send you a PM)

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@ wierdaaron



Maybe for scientists like physicists, you could use a beaker. For pseudo-sciences, like biology, you could use a mortar board.

I'm really hoping this a joke I don't get....

[wierdaaron]

I'm really hoping this a joke I don't get....
I chose to just glide right past it.

[Liberal]

I'm really hoping this a joke I don't get....I'm sorry, but you have me at a disadvantage. Was it the beaker? The mortar board?

Wait, wait, wait... no. It's the "pseudo-science", isn't it. Please let me plead my case. (I reckon that's what wierdaaron chose to "glide right past" as well.)

First, let me state that I have no disrespect for biology or biologists. Neither do I disrespect economists, nor psychologists. I simply use rigorous Popperian criteria for distinguishing between science and pseudo-science — like economics and psychology.

(If you're willing to read a brief, excellent exerpt from an essay by Popper, please see Science as Falsification (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/popper_falsification.html). You will be edified, I promise.)

Meanwhile, biology specifically, as "the study of life", is unable even to define that which it studies, and especially moreso when it concerns life that might be extra-terrestrial. See SETI's The Meaning of Life (http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_shostak_020829.html). Even defining life on earth itself is problematic, and you can get almost as many definitions as you can sources.

That is not to say that each and every aspect of biology is nonpredictive or undefined, but by its very nature, natural selection and the process of evolution actually preclude the ability to make certain predictions. (One cannot, for example, predict how the evolution of homo sapiens will proceed.) That is not a ding against evolutionary theory (which I embrace). It's just a fact. Apologies for any unintended offense.

[Randy Seltzer]

I PM'd you to sign up.

[snip]
Guys! Guys! I just found out that Chronos is "religious"!

[Liberal]

Guys! Guys! I just found out that Chronos is "religious"!Hate to burst your bubble, but that's pretty common knowledge. Many physicists (especially cosmologists) are "religious".

[Trepa Mayfield]

Yeah. Only potential problem is that the process for adding an image is kind of arduous as it is now. To maintain a level of ease where anybody could be expected to maintain their own database, they'd probably have to continue to draw from the "centralized" database of images.

Perhaps it'd be better if people could maintain their own database of notes about people, like "he's the one who thinks tomatoes are vegetables" or "met the president" or "Battlestar Galactica fan." Since that'd be simply a more advanced form of keeping a notebook, compared to the badge thing which instantly strikes some people as being "branded", it would go over better.

This would be in addition to the central database of badges. Everybody sees the same badges, but you only see your own notes. Or a few people could share the same notes db if they wanted. Then come the cliques.

This is, in my opinion, the perfect compromise. Go with this.

[The Tao's Revenge]

Yeah, the pink unicorn is sort of the same as FSM, except I think FSM might be less insulting than FSM, since... I don't even know. I've been on both sides of the religious/atheist debate, and I still don't fully appreciate or understand it. This is why I went with the pre-existing atheist symbol, even though I don't like it, so I wouldn't have to take the rap for editorializing with the icon choice.

And re: your name, I think when I first showed up here I found you agreeing with me a lot, or vice versa, so I was kind of following your adventures, and then somebody linked to an old pit about you from a few years back where you were referred to as "Libertarian" and I eventually realized you must have gone through a butterfly-esq metamorphasis at some unspecific point.

What about a picture of Zeus in a slashed out circle? Seems like it wouldn't be offensive to anyone, and seems like it'd be indicative of their beliefs. With Zeus being the token god.

[wierdaaron]

What about a picture of Zeus in a slashed out circle? Seems like it wouldn't be offensive to anyone, and seems like it'd be indicative of their beliefs. With Zeus being the token god.
That could be read as "Doesn't like greco-roman mythology"

[The Tao's Revenge]

That could be read as "Doesn't like greco-roman mythology"

Okay so the word god (in generic lowercase which shouldn't be offensive to anyone) instead of Zeus.

[Liberal]

Since atheists typically describe themselves as lacking belief in God (as opposed to having a belief in NoGod), perhaps something that is empty. Just a square black icon. No color. No belief. And voila!

ETA: Agnostics could be gray.

[magellan01]

That could be read as "Doesn't like greco-roman mythology"

First, well done with all the work you did! I think it's great. I do think you need a better Atheist symbol as well. The Zeus thing is okay, but wouldn't it be better to have maybe just blue sky and clouds, trying to show the absence of belief in anything, as opposed the the belief being opposed to god(s)?

Also, "lawyer" is another good category. Perhaps the scales of justice. Some suggestions for the doctors: a syringe, a prescription bottle, the caduceus (already mentioned).

On the other hand, maybe professions is too much info. If you have too many of those icons it could start to turn into a mess.

[magellan01]

Since atheists typically describe themselves as lacking belief in God (as opposed to having a belief in NoGod), perhaps something that is empty. Just a square black icon. No color. No belief. And voila!

ETA: Agnostics could be gray.

We were on the same wavelength.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

What about all of us Jewish atheists???

It's so odd yo me to need a symbol for the things I * don't * believe in....

[Liberal]

We were on the same wavelength.Yeah. See, that's part of the greatness of the Dope. People like me learn things about people like you. (If you're a theist, forgive me, but please allow the point notwithstanding.) I learned a lot about atheism that even reading atheist philosophers never revealed.

ETA: The problem is that there has been a lack of great modern essentialists. Alvin Plantinga. Maybe Hartshorne. Godel, if we stretch it. And that's all of them, I think.

Even though I'm vehemently anti-existentialist, I feel like existentialism is fading away, and the world is not the better for it. The problem never was that there was a deficit of extremely high quality existentialist philosophers (like Daniel Dennett), for example. But unfortunately, there are also some materialist nutjobs out there, (like Richard Dawkins), about whom I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he's the inspiration for Dennett's famous, "There is nothing I like less than bad arguments for views that I hold dear." I do sometimes wish we (the Dope) could return to our Golden Age.

[wierdaaron]

I can't even count how many new -ist and -ism words I've learned since I came here.

[Guinastasia]

Can you make the word "atheist" itself?

[Liberal]

Okay, then I want "Quaker".

Just ribbing Guin a bit. She's a good sport.

[Trepa Mayfield]

FTR, wieerdaron, I am male.

[Green Cymbeline]

Just got it installed. Just wondering, can we edit the Google spreadsheet? I can probably find the link in the .js file.

Awesome!

Edit: I couldn't figure out how to find the spreadsheet... can we access and/or edit it? I'd like to add info on myself. Also is there an agnostic icon yet?

[Idle Thoughts]

Not bad! Working great, so far.

[Green Cymbeline]

Here's an agnostic symbol you could use, re-sized: http://brookenelson.com/agnostic.gif

You can add that symbol for me, as well as female and Democrat ;)

[BigT]

My badges are no longer working. I even went and tried the older version. No dice. Is that the server problem mentioned earlier?

[wierdaaron]

I'd like to get some feedback on this:

Regarding the "flag this user's posts" feature, I plan to add a color selector so that you can flag several people with different colors to track the back-and-forth within a tread.

I was thinking, though, that people might like to flag people on a semi-permanent basis, rather than just on a single-page basis. Like make it so a few people's posts are always flagged red, a few always green, so you can spot some friends/enemies' posts wherever they may be.

The problem is, I can't think of a clear way to differentiate between "flag only on this page" and "flag always", so the easiest would be to just make the flag button always be "always."

Would you want this, or would you prefer for it to be on a page-by-page basis?

(I'll be adding an "unflag" button as well, naturally)

Some progress: I've figured out how to effectively set/read cookies with Greasemonkey (trivia: this is my first gm script), so it's now possible to have this "flagging" feature be cookie-based (meaning it can have an expiration date), instead of being all or nothing.

So, by default, is everybody OK with the "flag this user's posts" button applying until you leave the website? That is, for as long as your session lasts, their posts will be flagged. Once you close the window/tab, the cookie will go away, so no more flagging.

Alternatively, it could be date-based; lasting for 24 hours or 24 years.

[wierdaaron]

My badges are no longer working. I even went and tried the older version. No dice. Is that the server problem mentioned earlier?
You're saying you don't get no stinking badges?

Sometimes that can happen the first time you load the script, but it should fix itself the next time you load the page.

If not, do you at least get the badges in text form? (like [republican] [female] etc)

[Guinastasia]

Okay, then I want "Quaker".

Just ribbing Guin a bit. She's a good sport.

I don't get it.


What about gender? I'd say that's the big one.

[wierdaaron]

I've added basic male/female symbols for gender identification. That one I'll keep strictly voluntary (someone will have to ask me/whoever to add it, I wont add it just because someone mentions their gender in passing elsewhere)

[Green Cymbeline]

Thanks Aaron - for some reason the agnostic icon isn't showing up yet...

Also I am a cat lover, if you want to add that too. ;)

[wierdaaron]

Thanks Aaron - for some reason the agnostic icon isn't showing up yet...

Also I am a cat lover, if you want to add that too. ;)
Since icons are updated every 24 hours, the agnostic one wont show up for a while unless you reset the cache timer manually (which involves going into about:config and clearing/resetting 'SDMB Optifixer.icon_loaded_time')

Also of note, I replaced the atheism symbol for now to this one (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Atom_of_Atheism_%28lowres%29-Zanaq.png). It's not thematically different from the other one, but it's better looking, at least.

[Savannah]

Image Link Hover-Preview Thingies is all kinds of awesome.

[Captain_Awesome]

If you are interested, I had a mess around and came up with this (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/771/caty.gif) as a slightly less scary cat icon, and a more universal medical symbol (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8236/doctori.gif). This (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1419/athiest.gif) atheism symbol could be an alternative to the stylised atom, though is less widely known.

[Elyanna]

Holy shit, this is amazing. I hardly read the SDMB anymore, but I would probably come back just to look at the badges.

[Trepa Mayfield]

I've added basic male/female symbols for gender identification. That one I'll keep strictly voluntary (someone will have to ask me/whoever to add it, I wont add it just because someone mentions their gender in passing elsewhere)

Yo dude, I am totally a guy, like fo' shizzle.

[Liberal]

Some progress: I've figured out how to effectively set/read cookies with Greasemonkey (trivia: this is my first gm script), so it's now possible to have this "flagging" feature be cookie-based (meaning it can have an expiration date), instead of being all or nothing.

So, by default, is everybody OK with the "flag this user's posts" button applying until you leave the website? That is, for as long as your session lasts, their posts will be flagged. Once you close the window/tab, the cookie will go away, so no more flagging.

Alternatively, it could be date-based; lasting for 24 hours or 24 years.My vote is for session cookies (if you're still reading my posts).

@Guin

The gentle ribbing was just silliness. You know how a child goes, "He got one. I want one TOO!" You had said make the atheist symbol the word "Atheist" itself, whereupon I responding jokingly, "I want 'Quaker'!" I know, I know. Explaining the joke kills it. But there ya go. :D

[TWDuke]

I've added basic male/female symbols for gender identification. That one I'll keep strictly voluntary (someone will have to ask me/whoever to add it, I wont add it just because someone mentions their gender in passing elsewhere)They should all be voluntary. I'd prefer to see the whole concept buried at the crossroads with a stake through its heart - the whole idea of putting posters into categories so that others can evaluate their posts by scanning the labels assigned to them is distasteful to me - but a strict opt-in system would at least be a decent compromise.

[wierdaaron]

They should all be voluntary. I'd prefer to see the whole concept buried at the crossroads with a stake through its heart - the whole idea of putting posters into categories so that others can evaluate their posts by scanning the labels assigned to them is distasteful to me - but a strict opt-in system would at least be a decent compromise.
I'm thinking about forking it off into a separate script from the UI-improver script, so people who don't like the badge thing can still get the more benign tweaks.

Anyway, I've added a new feature:

Youtube Link Previewing/Awesomeing

The same way the script adds an icon to image links and allow hover-previewing, it adds a little icon to any youtube link. Like this. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-15%2016h%2014m%2050s.png)

When you hover over the icon, you get a thumbnail preview of that video (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-15%2016h%2016m%2002s.png).

When you click the icon, instead of taking you to youtube it launches the video inside of your current window (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-15%2016h%2016m%2016s.png). That way, you don't have to leave the page and be bombarded with the stupidness of youtube comments.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

God, I'm an idiot. Very sorry I misunderstood you. (In all fairness, though, your modifier was dangling.)*Zip* Okay. Fixed it.

For pseudo-sciences, like biology...I read your later post, and I understand what you're thinking, but... NO!

Pseudo-sciences are things like astrology and crystal therapy and stuff that has no scientific method, no scientific basis, and no scientific evidence. Even "soft" sciences like psychology follow proper method and rigor, and don't deserve the "pseudo" label.

Since atheists typically describe themselves as lacking belief in God (as opposed to having a belief in NoGod)I know this is a hijack, but did this change recently? I always thought the difference between an atheist and an agnostic was that agnostics believe they don't have enough information to make a decision regarding the existence of God, but atheists (as the name implies) have made that decision and believe there is no God.

Is that incorrect? If so, has it always been wrong, or is that what the words meant back in the 70s when I studied such things?

[wierdaaron]

There are various technical definitions for atheism/agnosticism, but I think most people's contemporary gut-feeling definition is that atheists reject the possibility of a god while agnostics don't care if there is/isn't, but they definitely don't believe in capital-g God.

[TWDuke]

Roughly speaking, an atheist doesn't believe in God. An agnostic believes questions of God's existence and nature are unanswerable. The categories are not mutually exclusive. I consider myself an agnostic atheist (or an atheist agnostic, depending on my mood), and neither one necessarily entails a definite disbelief in gods.*

But just as you have multiple Christian sects which refuse to recognize each other as Christian, there are various shades of nonbelief (see "strong atheism," "weak atheism," and other such attempts at subdivision). Unfortunately, some nonbelievers resort to perjorative (and fundamentally incorrect) cliches such as "an agnostic is an atheist who lacks the courage of his convictions" or "an atheist is a theist who thinks he is God."

ETA: In interest of full disclosure, I do not believe in anything I would call God, which makes me an atheist. I will allow for the possibility that something somebody else might reasonably call god or God could exist, but I think anything worthy of the name would defy comprehension; hence, agnostic.

[TWDuke]

There are various technical definitions for atheism/agnosticism, but I think most people's contemporary gut-feeling definition is that atheists reject the possibility of a god while agnostics don't care if there is/isn't, but they definitely don't believe in capital-g God.There's some truth to this in that unfortunately "agnostic" has come to be a synonym for "ambivalent" or "apathetic" in some people's minds. But the term was deliberately coined, not all that long ago, by a passionate and opinionated philosopher who defined it thus:

"Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him."

[wierdaaron]

IMPORTANT SCRIPT UPDATE

I have removed the trait badging feature of the script and moved it into its own script.

This accomplishes three things:

People who don't want or don't like the badging feature can now still enjoy the other features.
The speed of the interface features showing up has now greatly increased, because now both processes are independent of each other.
If you have both installed, you can toggle one or the other on or off by enabling/disabling the individual scripts.


IF YOU ARE A BETA TESTER:

Instructions for updating to the newest version and/or adding badging should appear in the script updates window. If you have an older version that doesn't feature the updates window (http://snapplr.com/ydpr), you can install the latest version using the original url I sent you.

[Liberal]

I read your later post, and I understand what you're thinking, but... NO!

Pseudo-sciences are things like astrology and crystal therapy and stuff that has no scientific method, no scientific basis, and no scientific evidence. Even "soft" sciences like psychology follow proper method and rigor, and don't deserve the "pseudo" label.Other people are handling the atheist-slash-agnostic-slash-antitheist dealio, so I'll just address this part of your post. And what I'll say is that your position sounds Kuhnish to me. But I will acknowledge the validity of your view, while expressing my respectful disagreement with it.

[MsWhatsit]

The updates window keeps popping up every time I load a new page on the site, and it won't go away, even if I hit the close button.

[wierdaaron]

The updates window keeps popping up every time I load a new page on the site, and it won't go away, even if I hit the close button.
Do you have the latest version? That happens when there's a problem setting the 'hide me' cookie. It should be working better now than it was before.

[MsWhatsit]

Do you have the latest version? That happens when there's a problem setting the 'hide me' cookie. It should be working better now than it was before.

Yeah, I just installed the latest update. Still getting the update window on every page, and the Close button still doesn't work. Firefox 3.0.14, Windows XP, if it matters.

[Elyanna]

Firefox 3.5.3, tried on Windows XP and Vista--no problems here, except it does slow down the XP machine. But that computer wheezes when I so much as think about opening Firefox on it, so that's no surprise.

[wierdaaron]

Yeah, I think 3.5 or higher is required. Trying to work around that now...

[wierdaaron]

I just installed FF 3.0.14 on an XP machine and the thing works fine. Maybe you need to update your greasemonkey version.

Do this here. (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748)

[wierdaaron]

Actually, it turns out the problem is caused because charter members and guests get slightly different versions of the forum. The only people with the problem were charter members. Working on a fix now.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Thanks Aaron - for some reason the agnostic icon isn't showing up yet...

Well, it might be there, but there's no definitive evidence for it as of right now.

[fubbleskag]

@wierdaaron: working ok so far on FF3.0.13/linux

Well, it might be there, but there's no definitive evidence for it as of right now. :slowclap:

[wierdaaron]

That problem has been sorted out.

If you can think of any other kind of links that could be awesomized like images and youtubes are, let me know.

[Green Cymbeline]

Just want to thank you again for this awesome tool.

If someone is linking to a web site, can you have a thumbnail of the web site pop up? I have seen some other sites that have this ability.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

And what I'll say is that your position sounds Kuhnish to me. But I will acknowledge the validity of your view, while expressing my respectful disagreement with it.Just to make sure I understand your viewpoint, Lib, are you really classifying biology as equivalent to astrology, or do you have a different term for what I'm calling "pseudo-science"?

[Liberal]

Just to make sure I understand your viewpoint, Lib, are you really classifying biology as equivalent to astrology, or do you have a different term for what I'm calling "pseudo-science"?It's the latter. Astrology doesn't count as a science of any kind, pseudo or otherwise. It's an amusing pastime, like reading tea leaves or looking for underground water with a shaky stick.

As I said, your ideas sound like Kuhn's to me, while I use the far more strict criteria demanded by Popper. The essay excerpt to which I linked you explains in greater detail (and certainly with greater writing), but the gist of it is this: a "science" must make risky predictions — i.e., predictions that have a chance to fail, or be wrong. He insisted upon a process called "falsification", meaning that a scientific theory has to be testable by repeatable experimentation in order to determine whether its hypothesis is false.

Popper told the story of encountering a prominent contemporary psychologist namded "Adler", and asking him about a particular boy who behaved in unusual and unexpected ways. Without so much as a blink, Adler told Popper the boy's problem. Popper, confused, asked, "How can you know so much about the boy without even having met him?" Adler responded instantly, "Because of my thousand-fold experience," whereupon Popper quipped, "And now I suppose your experience is a thousand-and-one-fold."

In other words, Popper said that science did not "explain things"; rather, it unmasked a thing's veracity. He cited Marxists versus Capitalists (economic theory) as another pseudo-science, by showing how either side could pick a newspaper headline and claim that their particular theory perfectly explained it. COMPANY GOES BANKRUPT. "You see!" exclaims the Marxist, "this is a perfect example of why government shown own the means of production." Meanwhile, the Capitalist, upon the exact same news, will proclaim, "You see! This is a perfect example of the market correcting itself."

In the essay, Popper cites Einstein's (then almost contemporary) Relativity Theories as genuine science, testable by experiment. Anyone with minimal equipment could observe an ecplipse, and determine whether indeed the sun bent lightwaves as Einstein's general theory had predicted.

Now, I realize that there are other philosophers of science who have different ways of looking at the thing, but I like Popper's best because it is the simplest and (in my mind) the most sensible. In fact, the modern scientific method owes its roots to Popper's research and commentary.

Even so, I must concede that the notion of "falsifiability" upon which Popper's whole case is based is itself merely a philosophical notion, and is not itself falsifiable. But that's the nature of deductive reasoning: it must begin with undefined terms and unproved premises, and move forward from there.

With respect to biology and psychology and economics and all that, they do make some testable predictive claims. But overall, they are woefully underdeveloped. This could change in the future, and I hope it will.

[Snickers]

Wow - weirdaaron, this looks seriously cool. I'd love to give it a try, too, tho' I'll need to install Greasemonkey as well. It'll take me some time to get up and running, so I might not have feedback for a while. Can I get in?

If not, I'm happy to wait for the finished version.

[wierdaaron]

Wow - weirdaaron, this looks seriously cool. I'd love to give it a try, too, tho' I'll need to install Greasemonkey as well. It'll take me some time to get up and running, so I might not have feedback for a while. Can I get in?

If not, I'm happy to wait for the finished version.
Once you've gotten a feel for greasemonkey, PM me for a link to install the script.

Yet another feature addition update...

Amazon Link Awesomization

Any links to Amazon.com are automatically adorned with a little amazon icon thingie (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-16%2014h%2037m%2038s.png).

Not super-useful, but if the link is to an amazon.com product, mousing-over the link will give you an image of that product. (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-16%2014h%2038m%2017s.png) Slightly more useful.


Link Preview Images (Testing)

As someone above requested, I'm testing a feature where mousing-over any external link (besides the ones already awesomized; youtube, images, amazon)gives you a thumbnail preview of that website (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-16%2014h%2038m%2052s.png). The reason this is testing is because there's a chance that manipulating almost every link on the page can cause some sluggishness.

Note that I'm using a free version of the website thumbnail-getter-izer servicce, which only supports top-level thumbnailing (so a link to nytimes.com/fancyarticle/about/brineshrimp.html will show a preview of nytimes.com), and if there's a link where the service doesn't have a thumbnail, they're unlikely to go get you one.


Amazon Monetization For Me (Dolla Dolla Bills Y'All)

Also in testing, the latest version of the script adds an option to add a new Firefox searchbox bar thing (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-16%2014h%2041m%2021s.png). What this thing does is give you the same Amazon.com search functions as the built-in one, except it sends along my referral code, so if you eventually make a purchase on Amazon, I get a small commission.

Note that this isn't very extraordinary. The built-in Amazon search tool sends mozilla's referral code, so whenever you use that one and buy something, the firefox people make some money off of you. This just adds an option so that the comission money goes to me, instead.

Note that this is optional (duh), and that I doubt I'd make any money from it anyway, and that if you do order something, I won't be able to see who orders what (it doesn't say 'Sally Waterson ordered Sensual Vampire Erotica Volume 4', here's your $0.45). This would just be an optional way for you to indirectly send a kickback my way for making this script.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

That makes sense, Lib, and I think this would be a fascinating discussion to continue with you, but we probably shouldn't keep hijacking aaron's thread.

[BigT]

The updates window keeps popping up every time I load a new page on the site, and it won't go away, even if I hit the close button.

I'm having a similar problem. Now that I've updated, mostly everything is working. But a little gray box, which I assume is the update icon, appears in the bottom right corner. If I click on it, I get the update message. If I close that message, the box disappears. But it comes back on every new page.

Still, it's just a minor annoyance compared to the badges not working earlier. I'm glad you were able to fix that without my help.

Oh, and I did just update Greasemonkey to the latest version (0.8.20090123.1), if that matters.
(3) Wierdaaron SDMB Script Updates:
[Close]
You are using a beta version of this Greasemonkey script. Send me a PM (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/private.php?do=newpm&u=85177) if you have a problem.
- wierdaaron


- wierdaaron

This version adds Amazon link mouseover thumbnail thingies (test it out here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=531729) or anywhere else), and I'm testing a feature where any other link gives you a website preview when you mouse-over it. Please let me know if this works uniformly, and if it seems to slow everything down or not.
- wierdaaron

Woah! That is weird. That happened because I didn't clear the gray box before posting. It happens every time I post with the script enabled. That's more than a cosmetic problem. I have to disable it and refresh to post without that addendum.

[Liberal]

That makes sense, Lib, and I think this would be a fascinating discussion to continue with you, but we probably shouldn't keep hijacking aaron's thread.Agreed. Thank you both for your curiosity and your reasonableness.

[wierdaaron]

wtf...

Something's jacky with your end, alright.

[Chronos]

With regards to biology, I'd just like to point out that biologists can perform experiments, in a sense that astronomers or cosmologists cannot. A biologist might, for instance, hypothesize that a certain chemical will discriminate between cancer cells and non-cancer cells in its toxicity, and then test that hypothesis by administering the chemical to cultured cells, or live animals, and observing the results on each type of cell. Sure, by most physicists' standards, that's a pretty messy experiment, with lots of noise, but it still looks to me to be pretty unambiguously an experiment. An astronomer, by contrast, can't deposit teratons of hydrogen onto the surface of a white dwarf to see what happens; he can only hope to wait for that to occur naturally while he's watching, and hope that the circumstances under which it happens are close to the circumstances he's interested in.

[spinky]

Amazon Monetization For Me (Dolla Dolla Bills Y'All)


I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage people not to get all "OMG HE'S TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF US" about this. He's putting a lot of work into this script, and letting a little trickle of cash come back to him for it is no skin off our nose. And you can apparently turn it off.

BTW, aaron, I haven't tried the new version of the script yet, so maybe you already did this, but a way to turn the individual features on and off would be nice. In particular, the amazon awesomeification and the website previews are features I really find not only useless but actively annoying because they slow the page load down and things that pop up just because I roll the mouse over them make me want to kill things, and I question whether seeing a microscopic version of a web page before clicking the link to it ever helped anyone in any way.

[ZipperJJ]

I just requested the script so I haven't started testing it yet, but...

Would it be possible for you to add something that awesome-ifies IMDB links? Amazon at least tags their links so you can see the book title in the URL when you mouseover, but I hate hate hate when we're talking movies or TV shows and people reply with "this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071853/)". Gives you no info, and if you're not on an ad-blocking browser you get all sorts of IMDB ad crap when you click through.

If you could just title the link with the movie/show name that'd be soooo great.

[wierdaaron]

I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage people not to get all "OMG HE'S TRYING TO MAKE MONEY OFF US" about this. He's putting a lot of work into this script, and letting a little trickle of cash come back to him for it is no skin off our nose. And you can apparently turn it off.


It's not that you can turn it off, it's that you have to turn it on in the first place, and then elect to use that searchbox instead of the default one.


BTW, aaron, I haven't tried the new version of the script yet, so maybe you already did this, but a way to turn the individual features on and off would be nice. In particular, the amazon awesomeification and the website previews are features I really find not only useless but actively annoying because they slow the page load down and things that pop up just because I roll the mouse over them make me want to kill things, and I question whether seeing a microscopic version of a web page before clicking the link to it ever helped anyone in any way.

Why do you hate things that are awesome????

I could make it so you can trigger awesomization off with a variable-swap, though that would get un-did when you installed an update. A cookie would probably be better. I'll add that to my list. Not my nixon-list. My todo list.

[spinky]

Why do you hate things that are awesome????
It's just the way I am. :) As an example of the unawesomeness that awesomeness adds, when I load that thread with all the amazon links and measure the time between seeing the page content and the page becoming responsive (e.g. when I can scroll), it takes 10 seconds with optifix enabled, but only 3 seconds without it.

[wierdaaron]

Balls.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

I would still like to get a copy, wierdaaron.

[wierdaaron]

PM Sent!

I ran some speed tests and I can't get any discernible difference in response lag with optifix on/off. Maybe your whacky linux version handles javascript different. I'll put a toggle on it before 1.0 either way.

[spinky]

Maybe your whacky linux version handles javascript different.
You linux hataz are all the same. ;)

That gives me an idea for a whole new dimension to the badges: anti-badges. You'd get the linux badge, but the universal red-circle-with-line-through-it would be overlaid. You could use this to predict arguments by noting when an X-er and an Anti-X-er are in the same thread replying to each other. (Note: neither of these is a serious suggestion).

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

First impressions:


I see no speed issues at all
I quite like the highlighting of my posts and places where people quote me. Makes it easy to see what's going on.
When I first loaded it, every page I loaded had a popup saying I had a new PM from wierdaaron. I viewed the PM, and the popups kept coming. I finally had to delete the message to make it stop. Has this happened to anyone else?
It looks a little odd having icons in different sizes. I'd prefer to see them all be the same height - 30 pixels would be good.
I think the atheist icon looks like a scientist icon. I agree with those that would like to see something different. There are a lot of scientists who aren't atheists, and I'd venture to guess that a very tiny percentage of atheists are scientists.


Questions:

How do we know what badges are available? Is there a public list somewhere? (in the meantime, mark me male, mod, mac-user)
Are you creating new badge icons or waiting for people to submit designs (e.g. writer, teacher...)?
How do you turn off the Amazon links? I own a bookstore, and I don't want my competitor's logos and links in my face every time I use the SDMB.


I'll submit more after I have a chance to spend more time with it.

[Chronos]

I'll add that to my list. Not my nixon-list. My todo list. What about your Mikado list?

[wierdaaron]

When I first loaded it, every page I loaded had a popup saying I had a new PM from wierdaaron. I viewed the PM, and the popups kept coming. I finally had to delete the message to make it stop. Has this happened to anyone else?




I've not run into that, but then I dont use PM popups. When I turned them on, I didn't get any errant notifications. Might be some other javascript/cookie problem for you




It looks a little odd having icons in different sizes. I'd prefer to see them all be the same height - 30 pixels would be good.



Except for the gender things, everything is a uniform height. Nothing's final, though, and new categories and such I'll probably hold off on until the whole trait database thing is moved somewhere more efficient and interactive.







How do you turn off the Amazon links? I own a bookstore, and I don't want my competitor's logos and links in my face every time I use the SDMB.



Like.. what, some other website? Pretty sure bookstores, like the kind made out of wood with front doors, don't exist anymore.

I'll be adding a menu of sorts to turn on/off various elements of the awesomizer, including amazon links.

Actually, though, I'm thinking about ditching the amazon icon next to amazon links and just awesomizing the links themselves. Knowing when a link is a photo or video is one thing, knowing when it's amazon seems much less pertinent. Unless you're an amazonaholic (addicted to amazonahol) like I am.

[Green Cymbeline]

Another idea, have a small icon appear by Wikipedia links, like the icon appears next to Amazon links -- although you don't need a pop-up preview window, just an icon letting you know it's a Wiki link... Here is an icon, 15x12: http://brookenelson.com/wikipedia.gif

[GuanoLad]

Wow, this is a cool idea. I'd like to try this out!

It might be a good idea to ask one of our resident graphic designer posters to make icons that are of a consistent design, with a nice web2.0 style to them. Maybe.

[ZipperJJ]

Been using it for a day now and so far it's all good. I don't notice any slowness whatsoever (FF 3.5.3 on XP sp3).

[ianjohnson]

I'm having a problem with the script update message appearing in a post. In editing I kept trying different combinations of deleting and trying to dismiss the message but couldn't get it to clear before the edit window ran out (and why is there an edit window anyway?) This would be my second attempt.

So I have to click the little gray line at the bottom of the post window to bring up the notification. Then I have to select the text within the gray window and delete it, but I am still left with "Thumbnails provided by Thumbshots".

How do I keep this from happening?

[wierdaaron]

I'm having a problem with the script update message appearing in a post. In editing I kept trying different combinations of deleting and trying to dismiss the message but couldn't get it to clear before the edit window ran out (and why is there an edit window anyway?) This would be my second attempt.

So I have to click the little gray line at the bottom of the post window to bring up the notification. Then I have to select the text within the gray window and delete it, but I am still left with "Thumbnails provided by Thumbshots".

How do I keep this from happening?
Are you using the WYSIWYG editor?

This is happening to a few people, and I'm trying to find commonalities to figure out what's causing it.

[Green Cymbeline]

Wow, this is a cool idea. I'd like to try this out!

It might be a good idea to ask one of our resident graphic designer posters to make icons that are of a consistent design, with a nice web2.0 style to them. Maybe.I second this idea. I could take a crack at a few of the icons... I'll be back.

[wierdaaron]

Yeah, it's definitely a problem with the WYSIWYG editor. It'll be fixed in the next update.

[Cyberhwk]

I don't know a damn thing about coding or Beta testing so I don't think I'd be much help, but I just wanted to say that this thing is going to be AWESOME when it gets done!

[BigT]

Yeah, it's definitely a problem with the WYSIWYG editor. It'll be fixed in the next update.

Cool. I also just had a suggestion brainstorm:

Dopers can have avatars. However, you can only see them if you view their profile. It seems like you might be able to display them with the badge script.

A lot of people around here hate avatars, so I wouldn't suggest implementing it until you can optionally turn it off.

Oh, and I hope you haven't forgot about or decided not to try the ignore button feature I mentioned earlier

BTW, sorry if I'm asking too much. I'm just a bit giddy, since I've been hoping for a plugin to tweak the Dope for a long time. I've tried to learn on my own, but I've realized that I'll probably need to take structured classes instead of just figuring things out on my own like I used to.

[fubbleskag]

Dopers can have avatars. However, you can only see them if you view their profile. It seems like you might be able to display them with the badge script.

i'm sure wierdaaron can awesomize this, but here's the basic idea:

// add avatars, if available
$("a.bigusername").each(function () {
var uid = $(this).attr("href").split("=")[1];
var img = '<img src="http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/image.php?u=' + uid + '&dateline=1251343034&type=profile" height="50px">';
$(this).parent().parent().next().html(img);
});

[Patty O'Furniture]

This sounds super cool and I regret that I won't be able to make use of it since I don't use firefox. Maybe Google Labs will like the idea and put something out for Chrome.

But I'll add my two cents anyway.

The doctor icon: http://www.theagorashoppingcenter.com/images/doctor.gif

Atheist icon: Darwin fish

Icon next to video links: http://www.mavromatic.com/images/wof/projector.gif
Or this: http://www.reijns.info/style/img/film.gif

Links to PDF's need to have the little adobe symbol: http://stopforeclosuremethod.com/images/adobe.gif

[BigT]

i'm sure wierdaaron can awesomize this, but here's the basic idea:

// add avatars, if available
$("a.bigusername").each(function () {
var uid = $(this).attr("href").split("=")[1];
var img = '<img src="http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/image.php?u=' + uid + '&dateline=1251343034&type=profile" height="50px">';
$(this).parent().parent().next().html(img);
});

Thanks. You see, that's not so complicated that I can't figure out what it does. Javascript looked so easy when I first tried to learn it...

[BigT]

This sounds super cool and I regret that I won't be able to make use of it since I don't use firefox. Maybe Google Labs will like the idea and put something out for Chrome.

But I'll add my two cents anyway.

The doctor icon: http://www.theagorashoppingcenter.com/images/doctor.gif

Atheist icon: Darwin fish

Icon next to video links: http://www.mavromatic.com/images/wof/projector.gif
Or this: http://www.reijns.info/style/img/film.gif

Links to PDF's need to have the little adobe symbol: http://stopforeclosuremethod.com/images/adobe.gif

Looks like they already did.
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-chrome-to-add-greasemonkey.html

[Liberal]

Atheist icon: Darwin fish? Many if not most Christians believe in evolution.

[Lord Mondegreen]

Atheist icon: Darwin fish? Many if not most Christians believe in evolution.

I agree, Liberal. When I was a Christian (I am now Agnostic) I certainly accepted that evolution was the best explanation for the evidence. My brother, who is a devoted Christian, is a professional scientist (and a PhD) who accepts that the evidence (which is surely what scientists seek) leads to the unarguable conclusion that evolution and natural selection fit the observations so well that it is untenable to consider any alternative hypothesis.

[Patty O'Furniture]

I am aware that the Darwin Fish has other implications, but I am thinking back to the days of its inception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parodies_of_the_ichthys_symbol#Origin):

Origin
In 1983, two friends involved in the southern California atheist and freethought movements, Al Seckel and John Edwards, co-created the Darwin fish design, which was first used on a freethought leaflet for Atheists United in 1984.

If we are looking for a well-known symbol for atheism that can have no other possible tie-ins, we might be looking until the second coming*.

*see what I did there?

[Liberal]

The stylized atom. It represents materialism, and therefore by implication atheism. It is the official symbol adopted by the US military and others. It is already established and well known. (Just because someone here didn't know it doesn't make it not well known.)

For scientists, a beaker will do.

[Patty O'Furniture]

The atom probably makes sense to philosophers and other deep thinkers, but I can see why us common folk might look at it and scratch our collective head. The word "materialism" makes me think "materialistic". I would prefer naturalism, although I don't know what the icon would be for that, either. Maybe a simplified rendering of the Vitruvian Man.

Interestingly, I did an image search for "naturalism icon" and the first hit is the Darwin Fish.

[Patty O'Furniture]

I've started a poll on the atheism icon (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11573600#post11573600) tangent to avoid further hijacking of this thread.

[wierdaaron]

I just pushed out an update that (hopefully) fixes the problem of crazy text getting injected into the WYSIWYG editor, and removes the icon for Amazon links, as the annoying-to-useful ratio was too low. The amazon links themselves still show product image when you hover.

Next I'll be dealing with PDF links. There's actually a few things I can do with those: force download instead of opening in Adobe's stupid in-browser plugin, use Google's lighter embedded pdf viewer in a modal window (like with youtubes), etc.

When I'm done with links I'll get back to the user-flagging feature, and BigT's ignore button request.

[wierdaaron]

I've got a cold or an infection or piggie flu or sars or smallpox or cancer or something, so progress has been slow today (mostly relegated to bed, Scribblenauts, and horrendus Dan Brown prose on my kindle), but here's a preview of the PDF stuff.

Links to PDF files are adorned with an icon (feel free to contribute something better; I'd like to stay away from adobe trademarked symbols as their ham-fisted mishandling of one of the most potentially notable file formats in modern computing makes my insides cry) like so (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2008s.png).

When you hover over that icon, you get a hover-preview thing of that PDF's first page (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2027s.png). This functionality is provided by Google via an undocumented hack (of sorts) that I totally just stumbled upon while I was working on the next thing:

When you click the icon, it launches a modal window (just like with YouTube videos) with the linked PDF embedded inside (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2046s.png). It's using a Google embedded PDF viewer (part of Google Docs, actually) and does not require having adobe reader, its stupid browser plugin, or any type PDF software on your computer. Google is just so.. I want to make babies with them.

The embedded viewer is very light, not requiring much load time. It has a link to launch a full-page viewer in a new window with more advanced features.

I'll probably get this update online tomorrow morning.

[GuanoLad]

I made a few icons that are more consistent in design and of uniform size. Not sure if you want to adopt this idea or not, but here they are (http://www.guanolad.com/stuff/icon_collection.png) if you want to look at them.

[Liberal]

Those are great, GuanoLad! An excellent consistency, and nice looking.

I'd like the XY, the Cross, the Darwin Fish, the L, and the 99.

[Northern Piper]

What's the little car?

[Patty O'Furniture]

That looks like the law to me.

[GuanoLad]

Yeah, that's meant to represent the Police. The guy in the suit is meant to be a lawyer, though now that I think on it, I suppose the car could represent both.

[Patty O'Furniture]

I think a number of folks would like to have this one (http://www.wright-counseling.com/Images/pinktriangle.gif) as well.

[wierdaaron]

I've got a cold or an infection or piggie flu or sars or smallpox or cancer or something, so progress has been slow today (mostly relegated to bed, Scribblenauts, and horrendus Dan Brown prose on my kindle), but here's a preview of the PDF stuff.

Links to PDF files are adorned with an icon (feel free to contribute something better; I'd like to stay away from adobe trademarked symbols as their ham-fisted mishandling of one of the most potentially notable file formats in modern computing makes my insides cry) like so (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2008s.png).

When you hover over that icon, you get a hover-preview thing of that PDF's first page (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2027s.png). This functionality is provided by Google via an undocumented hack (of sorts) that I totally just stumbled upon while I was working on the next thing:

When you click the icon, it launches a modal window (just like with YouTube videos) with the linked PDF embedded inside (http://www.aarondunlap.com/forumstuff/sdmb/screenshots/Screenshot%202009-09-20%2000h%2002m%2046s.png). It's using a Google embedded PDF viewer (part of Google Docs, actually) and does not require having adobe reader, its stupid browser plugin, or any type PDF software on your computer. Google is just so.. I want to make babies with them.

The embedded viewer is very light, not requiring much load time. It has a link to launch a full-page viewer in a new window with more advanced features.

I'll probably get this update online tomorrow morning.
This update just went online. Beta testers, check your update windows.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

This update just went online. Beta testers, check your update windows.Thanks, aaron. It would be nice, by the way, if those update windows had dates on the notes.

[Chronos]

Is the pink triangle considered acceptable now?

[Patty O'Furniture]

I've never known a point in time (in the recent 20 years) when it was unacceptable. I think people may be inverting it now. I see it all the time as a bumper sticker. It's sold in gay bookstores.

A rainbow flag is also acceptable but the pink triangle can be de-bigulated and still be recognizable, where as the colors might all wash together on a rainbow flag.

[wierdaaron]

Thanks, aaron. It would be nice, by the way, if those update windows had dates on the notes.
Can do, but they're based on your version. You only see "new update available" notices if you aren't using the newest version, and you only see "this version has...." notices when you're using that version.

So anything you see applies exactly to you, so it's all somehow relevant.

[Northern Piper]

Yeah, that's meant to represent the Police. The guy in the suit is meant to be a lawyer, though now that I think on it, I suppose the car could represent both.
a) if a guy in a suit is a lawyer, what will you use for other professions that normally wear suits, such as accountants, bankers, etc?

b) I know many defence lawyers who would not be happy at being told that a police car represents the legal profession.

[GuanoLad]

a) if a guy in a suit is a lawyer, what will you use for other professions that normally wear suits, such as accountants, bankers, etc?There wouldn't be much call to represent them here. I'd guess the most frequently requested professions to receive answers from would be something like Lawyer, Doctor (including Psychology), Entomologist, Ornithologist, other Scientists (Astronomer, Physicist), an Emergency Service like Fireman or Police, and then after that it peters out to an amorphous "everything else".

If you can think of any others that might need to have icons, feel free to list them.

Though, having said that, I haven't heard from weirdaaron that he wants to use my graphics, yet.

[BigT]

There wouldn't be much call to represent them here. I'd guess the most frequently requested professions to receive answers from would be something like Lawyer, Doctor (including Psychology), Entomologist, Ornithologist, other Scientists (Astronomer, Physicist), an Emergency Service like Fireman or Police, and then after that it peters out to an amorphous "everything else".

If you can think of any others that might need to have icons, feel free to list them.

Though, having said that, I haven't heard from weirdaaron that he wants to use my graphics, yet.

Not to mention that accountants and bankers would be better represented by a calculator...

[GuanoLad]

Quite. Or dollar signs.

I suppose computer guru would be somewhere at the top of my list too. In fact, I'll make an icon for that now.

[wierdaaron]

Though, having said that, I haven't heard from weirdaaron that he wants to use my graphics, yet.

I'm a sucker for suspense.

I'm not working on the badge thing right now, so I'm trying to keep it out of my head. I like your icons, though I can't figure out what the kiwi bird is for. People who can't fly?

And having an icon for every religion (cross, crescent and star) could get major complicated. There's no jewish one, or hindu, or buddhist, or taoist, or egyptian sun-worship, etc. That's why I just have a "religious" badge now, with praying hands, that could represent basically any religion wherein people still have hands.

[MsWhatsit]

That's why I just have a "religious" badge now, with praying hands, that could represent basically any religion wherein people still have hands.

Hand-ist. :mad:

[GuanoLad]

I'm not working on the badge thing right now, so I'm trying to keep it out of my head.Fair enough. I can be patient, also.

I like your icons, though I can't figure out what the kiwi bird is for. People who can't fly?It's actually a wren, I think, and it's for people like Colibri, who is a very popular and valuable poster in GQ.

And having an icon for every religion (cross, crescent and star) could get major complicated.Not that complicated, I don't think.

As long as people don't start demanding flags to represent their country of origin. Then we'd be getting messy.

[Liberal]

What about icons for our hobbies? Like gardening or knitting. And icons for our fashion preferences? Alexander Julian or Armani. And what about icons for Mensa and TOPS? Oh! Oh! And icons for tits man or ass man? (And whatever ladies like — pecs and abs, I suppose.) And books we've read? Cities we live in or near? Numbers of children and grandchildren? Marriage status? Pro Life or Pro Choice? Coke or Pepsi? Ginger or Mary Ann? Emotional state? FICO scores? Football teams? Wine snobs? Elton John? Beef jerky? I'm not sure we've put enough thought into these.

ETA: And of course, Classic Vinyl or noise.

[BigT]

Did you know that broken links still pull up the preview? That's awesome! You can even right click and copy the URL without highlighting.

Pretty nifty! Wish there was a way to follow the link, or at least leave out the spaces when copying the URL...

Oh and a cosmetic suggestion: the update box needs a color coordinated scrollbar.

I sincerely hope I'm not overstaying my welcome with all of these feature ideas...

[MsWhatsit]

I love the awesome-ized links and never, ever want to go back to browsing the SDMB without them.

It would be cool if there were some indicator for posts that quote one of your own prior posts in the thread.

[BigT]

I love the awesome-ized links and never, ever want to go back to browsing the SDMB without them.

It would be cool if there were some indicator for posts that quote one of your own prior posts in the thread.

The little blue box around the actual quote isn't enough?

[MsWhatsit]

The little blue box around the actual quote isn't enough?

I just now for the very first time saw the little blue box around the quote. I also just upgraded Firefox to v3.5, so maybe that has something to do with it? Anyway, yeah, that is pretty much what I was asking for!

[Hennessy]

I'm on the second page reading this thread. I got to take a break and I got a idea that may have been posted or could be common knowledge. The character trait icons, when you let the mouse sit over them, have the meaning pop up. Like when you want to preview a topic.

[BigT]

I'm on the second page reading this thread. I got to take a break and I got a idea that may have been posted or could be common knowledge. The character trait icons, when you let the mouse sit over them, have the meaning pop up. Like when you want to preview a topic.

Yeah, that is a nice feature that we already have.

[Mtgman]

What about people who don't use the extension? Will they be able to see what flags are set for them or others? In a broader sense, is it fair or right to allow people to flag others instead of allowing people to flag themselves? What about meta-conversations where two people with the extension discuss the flags and anyone who doesn't use it ends up lost? Are you assuming both global adoption and global good faith?

This is sort of like a modern version of a scorefile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorefile), which was an individual's rating of each person they interacted with. The twist is this is a shared ranking/flagging. If each person had their own database of what they had flagged a poster, that's one thing. But what you could get is a person whose first impression of a new(to them) poster is colored by the flags someone else set, which the person who was flagged with those characteristics may virulently disagree with. I don't have a problem with people using scorefiles as handy ways of keeping track of their own opinions based on their experiences. I just have more reservations when a third party is imprinting their opinion on posts without the actual poster's knowledge or consent.

Of course I still remain shocked that Wikipedia is somewhat usable. When Wikis were first introduced I remember thinking "what a crazy idea, does data integrity mean nothing anymore?" I could just be showing my age here. Still, especially if the avatar thing gets implemented, the first couple times someone vandalizes the system I'm expecting you'll have quite a headache.

Enjoy,
Steven

[spinky]

I can see three types of badges being useful, all with very different meanings:
1) badges you apply to yourself that others can see, so you self-identify
2) badges that anyone can apply to anyone else, so they're sort of decided "collectively"
3) badges that you assign to others but only you can see, so you can remember your impressions of them.

What we have right now is basically #2, except that the number of people who assign badges is very small (maybe just aaron, but he mentioned maybe opening it up to a set of people). Personally, I find this the least useful. Look at my badges: I'm labeled "linux guy" even though I don't really identify myself as such. I do use linux, but I wouldn't choose to make it my badge if they worked like #1 above.

I think the coolest system would be a sort of combination of #1 and #3 where there was some visual difference to indicate whether someone applied a badge to themselves or whether you applied that badge to them. You could even throw in aspects of #2 as well, even making it auto-generated based on how many people assign a particular badge to a given person. But setting any of that up would involve building a service where we sign up for accounts in order to maintain our personal sets of badges, and takes a lot more work to build than what aaron has come up with.

[MsWhatsit]

I actually haven't bothered to install the script that handles the badges. The link awesomizers and post highlights and stuff are great all by themselves. I don't need no steenkin' badges. (Sorry.)

[GuanoLad]

What about people who don't use the extension? Will they be able to see what flags are set for them or others? In a broader sense, is it fair or right to allow people to flag others instead of allowing people to flag themselves?I think you're misinterpreting the point of the flags. Flagging is just a handy indicator to help locate the followup posts of a particular user in the thread. It's not meant as any kind of personal rating.

Unless you're talking about the badges, though those are just a description of their personality and interests, also not intended as a personal rating.

[Randy Seltzer]

I can see three types of badges being useful, all with very different meanings:
1) badges you apply to yourself that others can see, so you self-identify
2) badges that anyone can apply to anyone else, so they're sort of decided "collectively"
3) badges that you assign to others but only you can see, so you can remember your impressions of them.

What we have right now is basically #2, except that the number of people who assign badges is very small (maybe just aaron, but he mentioned maybe opening it up to a set of people). Personally, I find this the least useful. Look at my badges: I'm labeled "linux guy" even though I don't really identify myself as such. I do use linux, but I wouldn't choose to make it my badge if they worked like #1 above.

I think the coolest system would be a sort of combination of #1 and #3 where there was some visual difference to indicate whether someone applied a badge to themselves or whether you applied that badge to them. You could even throw in aspects of #2 as well, even making it auto-generated based on how many people assign a particular badge to a given person. But setting any of that up would involve building a service where we sign up for accounts in order to maintain our personal sets of badges, and takes a lot more work to build than what aaron has come up with.I'm still waiting for #3. Wierdaaron mentioned that after he got the script up and running, he would put out a little tutorial for people who wanted to maintain their own "badge" database. I don't know if he's happy with his script yet, but I eagerly anticipate this tutorial: I don't care what the collective thinks of anyone. I just want help remembering what I think of people.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Replying to subscribe.

[Liberal]

I'm still waiting for #3. Wierdaaron mentioned that after he got the script up and running, he would put out a little tutorial for people who wanted to maintain their own "badge" database. I don't know if he's happy with his script yet, but I eagerly anticipate this tutorial: I don't care what the collective thinks of anyone. I just want help remembering what I think of people.Same same for me. #3 is the only one that matters. I wouldn't call the others "unfair", but I would call them useless or possibly even misleading.

[wierdaaron]

I've been rather AWOL lately. Trying to get myself employed, and dedicating most of my coding time to things that I can actually put on a resume. I'll get around to the script shortly.

Shortly as in before the sun goes supernova.

[Liberal]

That's the way of these things. They often start with a wind storm, and then die with a quiet breeze.

[Liberal]

By the way, since this is the SDMB and all... the sun (our sun) will never go supernova. It'll expand close to Mars or so, and then collapse as a white dwarf.

[wierdaaron]

Oh, hello...

I just pushed out an update that adds a few features that make it easier to navigate posts within a page. More specifically...

Quick Links to Posts That Quote You

Having that soft blue highlighting of posts that quote my own posts was nice, but I wanted to be able to quickly tell if there were any new posts quoting myself, and to be able to quickly jump to them.

So I made a little box that appears on the bottom-left of a page that contains posts that are quoting you, with a direct link to each of them.

Example (http://aarondunlap.com/ss/20100318-487-18kb.jpg)

In that image, there are four posts on that page that have quoted me. Clicking each number will take me directly to that post.

Simple Navigation Between Your Own Posts

Sometimes in a thread I use my own posts as... guideposts for keeping track of how a thread is developing. Other times I just want to remember what I said in a page, and scanning the scrollbar up and down to look for the blue-highlighted posts isn't simple enough.

So I added very basic navigation to skip between your posts on a page. Previous, next, that kind of thing.

Example of that. (http://aarondunlap.com/ss/20100318-s0n-144kb.jpg)

And just to make things super easy, at the top of a page there will be a link to your first post.

Like this. (http://aarondunlap.com/ss/20100318-87o-12kb.jpg)

These things only appear where applicable (the quote list box won't show up on pages where you aren't quoted, for instance) so they shouldn't disrupt your browsing too much.

You can find the link to the update in the regular place (the status box in bottom-right).

Oh yeah, a while ago I pushed out an update that makes the status box stay hidden longer. You're welcome.

[MsWhatsit]

Most excellent. Thanks, wierdaaron.

[Cyberhwk]

WeirdAaron, this script sounds awesome if you could hook me up with a link.

[Cyberhwk]

Hot damn. I'm in!

[fubbleskag]

I used this script for awhile - it was one of the few things I miss dearly after switching from FF to Chrome (Chrome will run user scripts in many cases, but doesn't seem to like this one :().

[wierdaaron]

I cheated and found the backdoor :eek:

I dont think the mods (or I, for that matter) want the links public until it's done and mod-approved. While it's in development, it's easier when there's a small group of people using it, rather than having to account for the world-at-large. I'm not super concerned about it, but maybe a mod can baleet those links so I wont have to rename files.

My biggest concern is having a bunch of people running around with a painfully outdated version because they don't know enough to keep the thing updated, and I later find some gigantic bug or security hole that sends your credit card numbers to nigeria.

I used this script for awhile - it was one of the few things I miss dearly after switching from FF to Chrome (Chrome will run user scripts in many cases, but doesn't seem to like this one :().

Chrome does support userscripts, but this script relies on some greasemonkey-only features. There may be a way around this, I'll look into it during my next lull. I'm not without motivation; Chrome is my default browser now, I just use FF for sites that I cant survive on without extensions or greasemonkey scripts. Like... this one.

[crowmanyclouds]

I dont think the mods (or I, for that matter) want the links public until it's done and mod-approved. While it's in development, it's easier when there's a small group of people using it, rather than having to account for the world-at-large. I'm not super concerned about it, but maybe a mod can baleet those links so I wont have to rename files. ...Post reported (#102 too), and my apologies :smack:.... My biggest concern is having a bunch of people running around with a painfully outdated version because they don't know enough to keep the thing updated, and I later find some gigantic bug or security hole that sends your credit card numbers to nigeria. ...There's some reason I shouldn't be sending my credit card numbers to nigeria? :confused:

:D
CMC fnord!

[TubaDiva]

Post #102 altered to remove install link.

Post #176 removed from thread -- it can be put back in if necessary later.

[xash]

You're welcome.Thank you.

I just updated the script, and will play around with it. Your script is of great help when I'm moderating long threads, as I can just flag all the posters involved in a specific discussion and read all their posts before making a call. I use it frequently.

Feature request: Save state across pages for a given thread.

Currently, I have to re-flag every poster per page. I'd like to be able to flag once and then see their posts highlighted throughout the thread, regardless of page number.

If the workaround requires local action, even a crude implementation would be very helpful, e.g. On Page 1 of a thread, I flag Poster 1, Poster 2 and Poster 3. Script writes these parameters to a local file. Then, when I click on Page 2, the script pops up a javascript popup box, and when I click "Yes, carry over selections" it updates Page 2 with Page 1's selections.

Also, if you want more community involvement to build out the badges and update the badge database, let us know.

[wierdaaron]

I've wanted to have flagging work across entire threads, but as you suspected, it all works on a page-by-page basis right now. I could have them use cookies, though. I'll probably do that. Eventually.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Aaron, I'd like to repeat a request I made earlier for a mod/admin badge.

[wierdaaron]

Aaron, I'd like to repeat a request I made earlier for a mod/admin badge.
cmyk is handling badges currently (the design of them, at least). If he doesn't notice this, I'll tell him.

Still haven't touched the badger code in a while. I think I prefer to deal with the non-controversial stuff. If someone wants to volunteer to be able to add/remove traits to users so the info is a little up-to-date, feel free. I can give anybody write-access to the spreadsheet.

[Lestrade]

I dont think the mods (or I, for that matter) want the links public until it's done and mod-approved. While it's in development, it's easier when there's a small group of people using it, rather than having to account for the world-at-large. I'm not super concerned about it, but maybe a mod can baleet those links so I wont have to rename files.

My biggest concern is having a bunch of people running around with a painfully outdated version because they don't know enough to keep the thing updated, and I later find some gigantic bug or security hole that sends your credit card numbers to nigeria.

Um, I followed the link to your page and installed the badge script a while back. It's awesome and I'm happy, I just wanted to check whether you have a list of people that you PM upon updates or it was a handled by the script.

In short, are we script pirates cool or should we be scared? Should there be a badge for users/pirates of the scripts?

[wierdaaron]

Um, I followed the link to your page and installed the badge script a while back. It's awesome and I'm happy, I just wanted to check whether you have a list of people that you PM upon updates or it was a handled by the script.

In short, are we script pirates cool or should we be scared? Should there be a badge for users/pirates of the scripts?
Don't worry about it. I'll just send out a ping to remotely cut off your internet connection. Everybody safe.

In actual news, I do push out update notices via the updates window (bottom right-hand of screen, should say "(3)" right now. Beta testerz need to be aware that they should be keeping an eye on that for info about updates.

[Lestrade]

Don't worry about it. I'll just send out a ping to remotely cut off your internet connection. Everybody safe.

As long as it doesn't embolden the terrorists, I support it.

In actual news, I do push out update notices via the updates window (bottom right-hand of screen, should say "(3)" right now. Beta testerz need to be aware that they should be keeping an eye on that for info about updates.

Windows update? All my machines run Linux. I'm one of those kinds of pirates. :)

[Really Not All That Bright]

So how do you install one of these thangs?

[fubbleskag]

Windows update? All my machines run Linux. I'm one of those kinds of pirates. :)He's referring to a small window that should appear at the bottom right of your browser viewpane - only the top-left corner of it appears by default, but if you click it you'll see some info regarding recent updates to the script.

So how do you install one of these thangs?Assuming you have the Greasemonkey extension for Firefox installed, you just click on the link that weird will PM you.

[Lestrade]

He's referring to a small window that should appear at the bottom right of your browser viewpane - only the top-left corner of it appears by default, but if you click it you'll see some info regarding recent updates to the script.

Well, I'll be. I turned on the other script and there was the message, in the lower right hand corner. Thank you.

It would have been much more impressive if wierdaaron had actually used a Windows exploit to announce updates. Stupid, sure, but very impressive.

So how do you install one of these thangs?

Cool kids only, I'm afraid. Can I see your membership card?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Assuming you have the Greasemonkey extension for Firefox installed, you just click on the link that weird will PM you.
I do now. Guess I'll PM him.

Thanks!

[cmyk]

You may have noticed some of the badges are changing over to a more uniformed look. weirdaaron's been ever so gracious to allow me to use my mind powers to make them gel more on screen.

We're implementing many more that are currently available, and so far I've completed 32 country flags, plus a few more professions, on top of what was already established.

Here's what I've got so far (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set1&bgcolor=black)

I'll be adding some more professions, interests and identifiers in the future. Please take a look at the library so far, and let me know if there's something you'd like to see represented. Keep in mind that weirdaaron and I are trying to eliminate badges that are too ubiquitous (meat-eater) or too esoteric (visited every country in the world). Let's for the most part, keep it tailored to the community and spirit of the SDMB. It's all still a work in progress... plenty more to come...

thanks,
cmyk

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Looks good, cmyk. Put me down for male with a U.S. flag. When the mod badge is ready, I'll need that one, too.

[wierdaaron]

Well, it would seem that parts of the optifix script do work with Chrome, though they could use a little tweaking. It's just the badger (badgerbadger) that doesn't work in Chrome.

[cmyk]

Looks good, cmyk. Put me down for male with a U.S. flag. When the mod badge is ready, I'll need that one, too.

Mod and Admin badges are next on the list. ;)

[cmyk]

First impressions:


I see no speed issues at all
I quite like the highlighting of my posts and places where people quote me. Makes it easy to see what's going on.
When I first loaded it, every page I loaded had a popup saying I had a new PM from wierdaaron. I viewed the PM, and the popups kept coming. I finally had to delete the message to make it stop. Has this happened to anyone else?
It looks a little odd having icons in different sizes. I'd prefer to see them all be the same height - 30 pixels would be good.
I think the atheist icon looks like a scientist icon. I agree with those that would like to see something different. There are a lot of scientists who aren't atheists, and I'd venture to guess that a very tiny percentage of atheists are scientists.


Questions:

How do we know what badges are available? Is there a public list somewhere? (in the meantime, mark me male, mod, mac-user)
Are you creating new badge icons or waiting for people to submit designs (e.g. writer, teacher...)?
How do you turn off the Amazon links? I own a bookstore, and I don't want my competitor's logos and links in my face every time I use the SDMB.


I'll submit more after I have a chance to spend more time with it.

Since, for now, I'm handling the look and style of the badges, feel free (and this goes for everyone) to PM me with a list of badges you'd like to see. I'll be posting something tomorrow that shows all of the badges done so far, and that are available. I'm trying to shotgun everything I can think of in regards to this community and the people here, but I'm sure I'm only half way there as of now.

Stay tuned!

[cmyk]

Okay all,

Here's a complete list of badges I've made, as of now. (3/20) (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set2&bgcolor=black) Please take a look, and let me know what else is needed. Thanks!

[fubbleskag]

Well, it would seem that parts of the optifix script do work with Chrome, though they could use a little tweaking. It's just the badger (badgerbadger) that doesn't work in Chrome.Which parts are working for you? So far I haven't noticed any working for me :(

Okay all,

Here's a complete list of badges I've made, as of now. (3/20) (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set2&bgcolor=black) Please take a look, and let me know what else is needed. Thanks!You can put me down as: linux user, windows user, dog lover, male, Canada, USA

Thanks!

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Here's a complete list of badges I've made, as of now. (3/20) (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set2&bgcolor=black) Please take a look, and let me know what else is needed. Thanks!In addition to the male & U.S. badges I already mentioned, please flag me as an author.

Incidentally, the text of two of your badges is pretty offensive. "Gun nut?" You didn't use "Dog nut" or "Linux nut." Why not "Gun lover" or "Gun owner"? And "Teabagger" is a pejorative term for members of the Tea Party.

[ZenBeam]

Also, it's Pagan, not Pegan.

Do always we have to tell someone what badges to apply, or is there some way to add them ourselves?

[Ají de Gallina]

The Swiss flag is reversed. The cross is white on a red background

[crowmanyclouds]

You may have noticed some of the badges are changing over to a more uniformed look. weirdaaron's been ever so gracious to allow me to use my mind powers to make them gel more on screen. ...Kudos dude! You've beautified weirdaaron's brilliance!... Please take a look at the library so far, and let me know if there's something you'd like to see represented. ... Let's for the most part, keep it tailored to the community and spirit of the SDMB. ...With that in mind, a question for a wandering Mod.
How long after a poll thread is opened is it possible to continue to add poll options?

In a poll thread requests for new badges could be made, and the poll choices up-dated(?) to make it easy to see if it actually had enough badge wanters to make it useful. (A thread might be better than "PM me with a list of badges" ;).) I'm sure you ain't wanting to make personal badges. But there might be enough folks that Eastern for religion isn't specific enough. What should the minimum number for a badge be?

Right off the bat, I'm thinking there should be a badge for folks in the doctorin' business (we've got a bunch of nurses, EMTs, etc.) who might not be comfortable with the physician badge.

Is there a maximum number of badges one could have, and what happens when someone runs out of room between their username and their "Join Date", multiple lines?

CMC fnord!

[cmyk]

Incidentally, the text of two of your badges is pretty offensive. "Gun nut?" You didn't use "Dog nut" or "Linux nut." Why not "Gun lover" or "Gun owner"? And "Teabagger" is a pejorative term for members of the Tea Party.

Gah! Truly sorry about the "teabagger" thing. Quite honestly, I wasn't sure what they called themselves and didn't really give it a second thought other than 'isn't that a sexual maneuver?' Yeh, I'm not too bright.

Anyhow, I fixed the misspellings and changed "Gun Nut" to "Gun Owner." I think it might be strange for some to claim you love inanimate killing devices... let's maybe just keep the term 'love' for other lifeforms? The term 'gun nut' is what's currently being used, I just left it that way, however I didn't think it pejorative... y'know, just another way of saying you're a fan or really into something. Whatevah! ;)

[cmyk]

The Swiss flag is reversed. The cross is white on a red background

Whoops! Will fix, thanks!

[MsWhatsit]

Hm, at some point I decided not to install the badge script, but now I have changed my mind. Can someone help me out with a link or something?

[cmyk]

Do always we have to tell someone what badges to apply, or is there some way to add them ourselves?

For now (it this beta state), it's something only weirdaaron can do. But he is contemplating how to make it editable for everyone (many ways to go about that), as soon as the script is ready for prime time.

[fubbleskag]

For now (it this beta state), it's something only weirdaaron can do. But he is contemplating how to make it editable for everyone (many ways to go about that), as soon as the script is ready for prime time.

The only way I can imagine this happening with any assurance that we're only able to modify our own badges, is with the direct involvement of TPTB: I imagine an additional field on our profiles where we list our desired badges, which is then "displayed" along side our posts and converted to badges by the script. I say "displayed" because it's possible to have the list included in the HTML but hidden from display and still useful to wierd's script.

[Randy Seltzer]

This beta tester would like to put in another plug for the ability to apply our own badges to other people that only we can see. What other people think of themselves is irrelevant to me: I'd like reminders of what I think of people.

Wierdaaron mentioned in an earlier post that he might put together a tutorial on how we can make this happen ourselves. I personally would find that pretty nifty.

[cmyk]

I've updated the badges chart with more icons (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set2&bgcolor=black)(and fixed some others)...

There's also alternative versions on Chemistry, Astronomy and Physics. I think I like Chem 3, Astro 2, and Phys 2 the best. Thoughts, anyone?

*To see the icons in full detail, download the jpeg, and open in any picture viewer. Actual size is 32 x 32 px.

[cmyk]

(do we want any sexual orientation and/or relationship status badges?)

[Ellen Cherry]

I would like to point out that the '99 icon should have an apostrophe, not a single quote mark.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Those are very nicely done, cmyk! Please add "Programmer" and "Avid Reader" to my list, too (I should be up to male, U.S. flag, author, programmer, avid reader, and--when it's ready--moderator).

Could "Kindle User" be made generic ("eBook User," perhaps), for those of us that like eBooks but aren't so keen on the Kindle?

Out of curiosity, what does that atheist symbol (the backwards Ø) mean? I haven't seen it before.

[cmyk]

I would like to point out that the '99 icon should have an apostrophe, not a single quote mark.

Doh! See, I need you as my editor. ;)

Those are very nicely done, cmyk! Please add "Programmer" and "Avid Reader" to my list, too (I should be up to male, U.S. flag, author, programmer, avid reader, and--when it's ready--moderator).

Could "Kindle User" be made generic ("eBook User," perhaps), for those of us that like eBooks but aren't so keen on the Kindle?

Out of curiosity, what does that atheist symbol (the backwards Ø) mean? I haven't seen it before.

Thanks, Gary! I'm almost having too much fun with these. Someone's gotta tell me when to stop. And yeh, we'll just change the title on 'Kindle User' to 'eBook User'. As for the Atheist symbol, I just made it up, taking what I liked best about some of the ideas spread across the internet. Using the Empty Set, but inverting it, and adding a little style to it to keep it separate from the Empty Set symbol (also so Atheist and Agnostic look sort of in the same family).

BTW, I just updated the chart with GLBT symbols.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

By the way, cmyk, should I be giving you this list of what flags I want, or PMing Aaron, or what?

ETA: And how come you don't have a "Graphic Arts" banner on your own name? ;)

[cmyk]

By the way, cmyk, should I be giving you this list of what flags I want, or PMing Aaron, or what?

ETA: And how come you don't have a "Graphic Arts" banner on your own name? ;)

Definitely send that to Aaron... he's the only guy so far that can edit the script. I'll be adding more badges to my name soon enough! ;)

And, anyone who wants to chime in with some more badge ideas, please post 'em here!

[ZenBeam]

For now (it this beta state), it's something only weirdaaron can do. But he is contemplating how to make it editable for everyone (many ways to go about that), as soon as the script is ready for prime time.I thought that might be the case.

A couple of possible approaches (that may not be feasible): Use the Interests section from each user's About Me section. User's would have to enter the correct keywords for the badges. A second approach woud be to have one or more polls, where users can self-select what badges are appropriate for themselves. Then use a script to harvest the information once in a while.

[Ají de Gallina]

It's easy for me t say because I'm not doing it, but how about a staff and a treble clef for musician rather than a piano keyboard?

[cmyk]

It's easy for me t say because I'm not doing it, but how about a staff and a treble clef for musician rather than a piano keyboard?

Sure thing.

[Ellen Cherry]

How about a very smug, know-it-all face for editor/writer. ;)

[cmyk]

How about a very smug, know-it-all face for editor/writer. ;)

So, is that permission to use your likeness? OH SNAP! ;)

[ZenBeam]

How about a very smug, know-it-all face for editor/writer. ;)Pffft. Everyone here would want a smug, know-it-all face.

[wierdaaron]

I take one, 12 hour nap and the whole thing blows up. Alright what did I miss..

Re Chrome: When I install the script (Chrome for Mac) I get all of the latest features (quotes-of-you enumeration, quick navigation between our own posts) as well as the blue highlighting of my posts and quotes of me. Nothing else works, because everything else relies on greasemonkey features. I've been trying to update it to use more "universal" stuff that would work without GM, but it's tricky. I'm a javascript guy, not a greasemonkey guy, and the various things that make up that distinction can be annoying.

On to badges, right now the associations for who gets what badges are currently made in a google spreadsheet. It would be a lot "better" to do this all in an actual database that could be queried, but that would require time and a server to park it on. Google works because it's free and they don't usually go down without the world also being on fire.

Right now, only I can edit that spreadsheet, but it's possible for me to manually add editors, or I can even make it editable to anybody who has a link. The latter would require a kind of wiki-mentality, where hopefully nothing can get too hosed up because everybody would police the data and make sure that at-least their own stats aren't messed with. You can roll back changes in a google spreadsheet pretty easily. Downside is that if someone screwed around with the associations and nobody noticed for a while, well, it'd be like when someone vandalizes a wikipedia entry and nobody notices right away...

The images themselves are currently stored in a google spreadsheet themselves, but that will probably have to change because the last batch cmyk sent is over 300KB total, and that's a lot to be cramming down the pipe every time. I think I'll host the images on my server for the time being, and if that ever starts to not work out I can look into one of those really cheap hosting plans.

And re "gun nut," I think anybody who is one probably likes that term, and anybody who isn't and doesn't like it is the kind to watch out for...

I think something to be avoided with badges is going too crazy with them. A person probably shouldn't have more than 4 or 5. I mean, if everybody who used windows had the windows badge, we'd probably stop being able to see it the same way our brains filter out our noses because we see them all the time. I think some arbitrary terminology I came up with a while ago was that you should only give yourself a badge that's part of your "personal identity." Something that represents you enough that you'd put it on your bumper sticker, as opposed to just a "check all that apply" type thing.

[GuanoLad]

I think there are some New Zealand residents who would like their flag represented.

And I see there's one for Sci Fi Fan but I would like to also have a Fantasy Fan icon, as there are a considerable number of us. Maybe a pic of a dragon or wizard (but please not a magic wand or unicorn).

[cmyk]

Well, I just can't help having about 20 or 30 badges myself, because I'm just that awesome.

I can make several genre Fan icons. I'll do Fantasy, but I'm not sure what else to do; Horror? Mystery?...

Noted for NZ. Any other countries?

Anyway, I'll just keep making these things until weirdaaron starts doing the Curly Shuffle because of bandwidth limitations. I'm just a graphic dood.

[crowmanyclouds]

... Out of curiosity, what does that atheist symbol (the backwards Ø) mean? ...I'm still having to remember that the "@"ish badge is for agnostic and not anarchist!
This (http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/Pix/NumberedAtheistSymbols.jpg) page has some potential alternatives. 40/49/84 for agnostics and something like 86/87 for atheists or 101/103/105 for agnostics/soft atheists/hard atheists? (I know this came up when the script was first made available, but it probably needs revisiting.)

One suggestion. keep all the backgrounds the same color, the Police, Star Wars, and Physics2 badges wold be easier to see and both Astronomy badges would look fine too.
Alternately, give the different badge classes unique colors. Which would also let you create dual use badges. Astronomers vs star gazers, music lovers vs musicians, our Tolkien experts vs fans, active duty vs retired military etc. just by using different colors/shades. The half colors used for gender would work as well for that.

CMC fnord!

[cmyk]

Hey CMC,

Thanks for your suggestions. It's got me thinking about them, and while I may not keep all the bkg colors the same, what I can do is add some small common element to distinguish from an occupation, hobby, active/veteran, etc...

I'll also rethink the Atheist and Agnostic logos. I came across the same chart you did and a lot of those were either ugly or didn't make any sense to me. I did like #13 for Atheist, and as for Agnostic, I'm still debating... I do like the infinity symbol... but not sure how that speaks agnosticism? Gah! 75 & 80 are interesting: I like how they worked in a question mark.

I'm half tempted to just use an empty badge box for Atheist (assuming I give all faith badges some common identifier).

[CannyDan]

This beta tester would like to put in another plug for the ability to apply our own badges to other people that only we can see. What other people think of themselves is irrelevant to me: I'd like reminders of what I think of people.<snip>

I'm not technical enough to attempt a beta test, so this perspective is from outside. With that caveat, I'll add that my prefered ultimate would be both.

I would indeed like to know how a poster self-identifies, up to some reasonable limit. Frankly, after maybe half a dozen or so iconic "selfs" the whole thing becomes TLDR.

But I would also like the ability to add some of my own, whether or not the poster uses badges him/herself and totally without his/her permission. These might tag something the poster revealed (say, he's a Brit, or an author) but doesn't himself find it important to self-badge. Or perhaps more frequently, a badge for me to tag someone who I find to be a royal pain, or the opposite, a really enjoyable poster. (Hey, cmyk, do you have a badge for Royal Pain yet? ;) I have a couple of posters in mind.... ) Being my impositions, even my value judgements, these should only be visible to me.

Maybe these would appear in different areas (self-imposed left justified, my impositions right justified or something) just so I myself with my failing memory could keep the difference straight at a glance without needing to refer to a look-up.

Not being technical, all of this programming is magic to me. I don't know how much harder the magic I'm requesting is from the magic already incorporated, but I hope you geniuses can make it happen. Thanks, and in advance. I await the next evolution of this project!

[BigT]

I'm just glad you're able to be back working on this, you guys. I was going to change the database the thing linked to, so I could update the badges myself. But, unfortunately, I got more sick than I already am and had to postpone that.

BTW, I was looking at your javascript to try to cahnge the database. I figured out what most of it does, but what is that gobbledy gook at the beginning? I assume it's obfuscated code, but what does it do? And is it proprietary?

[fubbleskag]

I'm just glad you're able to be back working on this, you guys. I was going to change the database the thing linked to, so I could update the badges myself. But, unfortunately, I got more sick than I already am and had to postpone that.

BTW, I was looking at your javascript to try to cahnge the database. I figured out what most of it does, but what is that gobbledy gook at the beginning? I assume it's obfuscated code, but what does it do? And is it proprietary?

I haven't looked at the code for awhile, but if you're referring to what I think you are, it's a compressed version of the jQuery (http://www.jquery.com) library.

[cmyk]

I'm not technical enough to attempt a beta test, so this perspective is from outside. With that caveat, I'll add that my prefered ultimate would be both.

I would indeed like to know how a poster self-identifies, up to some reasonable limit. Frankly, after maybe half a dozen or so iconic "selfs" the whole thing becomes TLDR.

But I would also like the ability to add some of my own, whether or not the poster uses badges him/herself and totally without his/her permission. These might tag something the poster revealed (say, he's a Brit, or an author) but doesn't himself find it important to self-badge. Or perhaps more frequently, a badge for me to tag someone who I find to be a royal pain, or the opposite, a really enjoyable poster. (Hey, cmyk, do you have a badge for Royal Pain yet? ;) I have a couple of posters in mind.... ) Being my impositions, even my value judgements, these should only be visible to me.

Maybe these would appear in different areas (self-imposed left justified, my impositions right justified or something) just so I myself with my failing memory could keep the difference straight at a glance without needing to refer to a look-up.

Not being technical, all of this programming is magic to me. I don't know how much harder the magic I'm requesting is from the magic already incorporated, but I hope you geniuses can make it happen. Thanks, and in advance. I await the next evolution of this project!

I agree with this. I like seeing everyone's self appointed badges, But, it would also be cool to be able to tack on your own set of personality traits that only you can see. It can probably be done with a different script that only you can edit... so everyone controls their own database. Not sure, but I'd definitely have fun making those types of badges.

[HISSNLISSN]

i may have missed it, but can someone let me know where i can find a link for the script? weirdaaron's exceeded his pm storage and i can't get a message through.

thanks.

[cmyk]

PM sent, HISSNLISSN.

[fubbleskag]

i may have missed it, but can someone let me know where i can find a link for the script? weirdaaron's exceeded his pm storage and i can't get a message through.

thanks.

I've forwarded wierd's PM to you.

[Randy Seltzer]

But, it would also be cool to be able to tack on your own set of personality traits that only you can see. It can probably be done with a different script that only you can edit... so everyone controls their own database. Not sure, but I'd definitely have fun making those types of badges. cmyk - If we are ever given the option to assign our own badges that others can't see, I'd like to have some badges that represent my personal evaluations of people. Examples off the top of my head:
"Idiot"
"Extremist"
"Brilliant"
"Johnny One Note"
"Gives good advice"
"Possibly a sock"
"Is really hot"
"Contrarian"
"Take with a grain of salt"
"Has PM'ed me in the past"
"Troll"
"Lives near me"

Wierdaaron - Could the personal badging be done with a local spreadsheet/database? Or would we have to each maintain a spreadsheet that's hosted on the internet somewhere?

[cmyk]

cmyk - If we are ever given the option to assign our own badges that others can't see, I'd like to have some badges that represent my personal evaluations of people. Examples off the top of my head:
"Idiot"
"Extremist"
"Brilliant"
"Johnny One Note"
"Gives good advice"
"Possibly a sock"
"Is really hot"
"Contrarian"
"Take with a grain of salt"
"Has PM'ed me in the past"
"Troll"
"Lives near me"

Wierdaaron - Could the personal badging be done with a local spreadsheet/database? Or would we have to each maintain a spreadsheet that's hosted on the internet somewhere?

Love it, I'd like to add to your list:
"Like-Minded"
"Funny as Hell"
"Nutjob"
"Creepy"
"Huge Ego"
"Rapier Wit"
"Detestable"
"Respectable"
"Insensitive/Blunt"
"Friendly/Kind"
"Jerk/Asshole"
"Creative"
"Drama Queen/King"
"Attention Whore"
"Self-Righteous"
"Ignorant"

[GuanoLad]

Huh. I just noticed Wierdaaron spells weird incorrectly, presumably deliberately.

[xash]

Okay all,

Here's a complete list of badges I've made, as of now. (3/20) (http://gallery.me.com/kevsnyde#100098/sdmb_badges_set2&bgcolor=black) Please take a look, and let me know what else is needed. Thanks!The badges are beautiful! May I suggest changing the tag "Programmer" to something more inclusive such as "techie" or "geek"? Programmer doesn't describe me as well as "techie" or "geek" would.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

The badges are beautiful! May I suggest changing the tag "Programmer" to something more inclusive such as "techie" or "geek"? Programmer doesn't describe me as well as "techie" or "geek" would.I see your point, but "geek" doesn't indicate any software design or coding knowledge. Is there a word that would still differentiate hardware geeks from software geeks?

[Really Not All That Bright]

You're all alike ;)

[Arnold Winkelried]

The Swiss flag is reversed. The cross is white on a red background
Great work on the Swiss flag, cmyk, but I will also add my little pet peeve: the flag of Switzerland is square, not rectangular.
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/Flags/ch.html

[cmyk]

Thanks xash!

I've already made a few more badges that hasn't been updated on the chart (sports related ones), but I'll be sure to add a geek, fantasy and hacker badge today. Look out for the update soon.

Arnold, yes! I knew it was square, but was torn to keep uniformity in size. But, now that you bring it up, I think it'll be cooler to make it square.

[dhkendall]

Arnold, yes! I knew it was square, but was torn to keep uniformity in size. But, now that you bring it up, I think it'll be cooler to make it square.

* refraining from making incredibly obvious Huey Lewis-related response. Holding toungue (barely)

[cmyk]

* refraining from making incredibly obvious Huey Lewis-related response. Holding toungue (barely)

For whatever do you mean? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB5YkmjalDg)

[Arnold Winkelried]

I knew it was square, but was torn to keep uniformity in size. But, now that you bring it up, I think it'll be cooler to make it square.You're a prince! Seeing as how the United Nations was willing to make an exception (see my previous link1), then you shouldn't feel bad for doing the same. And by the way, at this page ( swissworld.org (http://www.swissworld.org/en/culture/swissness/the_swiss_flag/) ) I learn that "The precise shade of red has only been set since January 1, 2007. It corresponds to pantone 485, and is a mixture of magenta and yellow."

In the category of religions, would you be inclined to have an icon for Unitarian Universalism (http://www.religioustolerance.org/u-u.htm)? Their symbol is a flaming chalice, you can see various representations here ( UUA: Chalice Clip Art (http://www.uua.org/leaders/leaderslibrary/leaderslibrary/48513.shtml) : at that page, click on link labelled "web-optimized chalice art")

P.S. Very nice work on the icons.

1The Swiss flag is square. This was an issue when Switzerland joined the UN in 2002, as all the flags displayed on UN Plaza should have the same size. The UN first had a rectangular flag, but the Swiss mission protested. Eventually the UN accepted a Swiss square flag. But, in order to have a flag that is not too small, the flag displayed on UN Plaza has the same area of a rectangular flag source: Flags of the World (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/Flags/ch.html)

[cmyk]

Those Swiss, always doing things their own way.

Funny you mention Unitarianism as it occurred to me yesterday that they weren't represented; which is funny because the Unity Church of Today (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=church+of+today&fb=1&gl=us&hq=church+of+today&hnear=Sterling+Heights,+MI&ei=yQ6pS5P8MI3aNej70NcB&ved=0CCkQtgMwBQ&ll=42.490391,-83.013446&spn=0.00693,0.008272&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A) used to be right in my backyard (my old house was on Richard Dr., 5th house down from 11 mile). I lived there for 10 years, and their parking lot lights would shine through my bedroom window at night. How could I ever forget?

I'll be sure to have it in the next update.

[GuanoLad]

If I was to choose five that represented me, I'd keep the current (99 and Atheist) and add Graphic Arts, Fantasy Fan, and Film (technically a hobby, though).

So whoever's in charge of that stuff, I'd love it if you could assign those for me.

[Lestrade]

Um, hey cmyk, it looks like you gave Pagans the symbol for Satanism. I have friends that identify as each and they really wouldn't appreciate being confused. I'd recommend using a pentacle as the Pagan symbol.

[cmyk]

Um, hey cmyk, it looks like you gave Pagans the symbol for Satanism. I have friends that identify as each and they really wouldn't appreciate being confused. I'd recommend using a pentacle as the Pagan symbol.

Roger that. I'll turn it right-side up within a circle. Sound good?

[Lestrade]

Roger that. I'll turn it right-side up within a circle. Sound good?

How about using this SVG pentacle (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pentacle_3.svg) from Wikimedia commons? It looks a bit nicer and gets away from the red.

[Panurge]

This looks so cool, but ... does anyone know if it will work in Konqueror? I would love to test it after work today, so a link to the script would be much appreciated.