Russian Roulette actual odds of shooting yourself 1-60?

[Scylla]

I read that a large caliber, well maintained, well-oiled revolver is a lot safer to play russian roulette with than you might think.

The weight of the round in the single chambered revolver slot ensures (or close to it) that when the cylinder is spun gravity will cause that heavier chamber to settle towards the bottom, away from the barrel, and firing pin.

The actual odds are more like 1-60, of spinning a well-maintained revolver and having the round land at the high point (under the pin)

Is this accurate?

[Sitnam]

This seems like a factual question.

My WAG is that well oiled or not the cylinder is geared to only turn one way so the momentum of spinning it and gravity NOT pulling to the bottom would make the odds far better than 1/60.

[Scylla]

I guess the test is to put at dummy load of the same weight as an actual round into the cylinder of such a gun and see what percentage of times it ends in firing position after being spun.

I do not possess the equipment for such a test.

[Trepa Mayfield]

IIRC, depending on the gun, the odds can be as high as 1/1 and as low as 0/1.

[Argent Towers]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.

[Chief Pedant]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.
Johnny Ace? Freddy Prinze?
Depressed drunks playing around are in a gray zone between suicidal behaviour and whatever it is one calls russian roulette...

[hansel]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.

Scott Ruffalo died playing Russian Roulette (http://theblemish.com/2008/12/scott-ruffalo-died-playing-russian-roulette/)
Teen Died Playing Russian Roulette, Police Say (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/22/AR2007022201761.html)
St. Louis Teen Dies Playing Russian Roulette (http://www.missourinet.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=0185DEFE-09C5-4969-BDEBA03FBE066BA9)

[Bryan Ekers]

I like to hunt deer with a revolver with one bullet, for the challenge.

[Claptree]

It would depend on how you hold the gun, wouldn't it? I can't recall seeing any depiction of Russian Roulette where the gun wasn't pointed either at the ceiling or the floor when the cylinder was spun. That should negate the impact of gravity.

[Cisco]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.

I knew a guy who died playing Russian roulette, and mma fighter Andrei Arlovski recently admitted to playing after he lost twice in a row by knockout. He is Russian, by the way.

Regarding the OP: aren't you supposed to clap it shut while it's still spinning? I mean, if you wait until it stops, you can see where the bullet is . . .

[Shagnasty]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.

I played it by myself once with my .357 magnum revolver. I (obviously) won but it was super terrifying. Never again.

[Bricker]

I have "played" it in the sense that I've loaded one round into a revolver (a well-maintained, well-oiled Colt Python .357) and then spun and snapped closed to see where the round ended up. Interestingly enough, had it been an actual game of RR, the first person to try to fire would have succeeded (and died).

I doubt the 1 in 60 premise, for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is that my understanding of the "rules" (spoken as though there's an international federation responsible for the official rule set or something!) is, as Cisco suggests, you're supposed to snap the cylinder closed as it's spinning.

[CalMeacham]

I doubt the 1 in 60 premise, for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is that my understanding of the "rules" (spoken as though there's an international federation responsible for the official rule set or something!) is, as Cisco suggests, you're supposed to snap the cylinder closed as it's spinning.



But there MUST be! How else can they determine who wins the Upper Class Twit of the Year competition?

[Fear Itself]

I like to hunt deer with a revolver with one bullet, for the challenge.Bah. Now, hunting bear with one bullet; aye, that's a challenge.

[Jack Batty]

<Tootsie-Pop Owl>

Well, let's find out.

One...

Tah-hooooooo...

Thr.....aaaahhhh! Oh, the horror ... the horror ... ... ...

... the horror ...

</Tootsie-Pop Owl>

[Jackknifed Juggernaut]

In The Deer Hunter, the Walken character seems to survive an incredibly long time playing the game. It always seemed so unrealistic to me, and was one of the reasons that I didn't love the movie. The OP's question gave me an explanation as to why he may have survived so long. But the responses shot it down.

[Little Nemo]

Now we know what the final epsiode of Mythbusters will be.

[Gaudere]

[Moderator Hat ON]

This has a factual answer, so off to GQ.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

[Lumpy]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.The Master Speaks (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1353/did-the-russians-ever-play-russian-roulette)

[Duckster]

Man Fatally Shoots Self While Teaching Girlfriend Lesson on Gun Safety (http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/09/man_fatally_shoots_himself_while_teaching_girlfriend_lesson_on_gun_safety_imperial_missouri.php)

[Bryan Ekers]

Well... I'm guessing she won't have any difficulty retaining this information.

[the first supraliminal]

I guess the test is to put at dummy load of the same weight as an actual round into the cylinder of such a gun and see what percentage of times it ends in firing position after being spun.

I do not possess the equipment for such a test.Would you like to be shot with a dummy load? If you mean a "blank cartridge", that will blow your brains out at Russian Roulette distance.

[Sailboat]

Would you like to be shot with a dummy load? If you mean a "blank cartridge", that will blow your brains out at Russian Roulette distance.

The classic case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum) of that.

[muldoonthief]

Would you like to be shot with a dummy load? If you mean a "blank cartridge", that will blow your brains out at Russian Roulette distance.

I assumed he meant a snap cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_cap), which is just a fake plastic cartridge with no primer, powder or bullet, usually used for dry firing exercises. There's no reason you couldn't do the test with a live round, as long as you either fire downrange instead of at your skull, or just reopen the cylinder and see where the live round is.

[Munch]

I knew a guy who died playing Russian roulette, and mma fighter Andrei Arlovski recently admitted to playing after he lost twice in a row by knockout. He is Russian, by the way.

So what do they call Russian Roullette in Russia? Roullette? Then what do they call the casino game?

[Argent Towers]

Man Fatally Shoots Self While Teaching Girlfriend Lesson on Gun Safety (http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/09/man_fatally_shoots_himself_while_teaching_girlfriend_lesson_on_gun_safety_imperial_missouri.php)

According to the witness, James Looney would show the different safety mechanisms, put the gun to his head, and ask if the gun would go off. Looney apparently did this with two other weapons and varied safety mechanisms, before the last one went off.

:smack: Guns don't "go off!"

[dragonlady]

I assumed he meant a snap cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_cap), which is just a fake plastic cartridge with no primer, powder or bullet, usually used for dry firing exercises. There's no reason you couldn't do the test with a live round, as long as you either fire downrange instead of at your skull, or just reopen the cylinder and see where the live round is.

I didn't think he meant to fire it at all. He said "SEE where it ends up".
Man, you guys get scary!

[muldoonthief]

I didn't think he meant to fire it at all. He said "SEE where it ends up".
Man, you guys get scary!

Well, I'd never put a live round in a firearm unless I was in a place where discharging it was legal, safe, and socially acceptable. So if I wanted to do this test in my basement, I'd use a snap cap, or some other completely inert device, even if I never intended to fire.

[Machine Elf]

Does anyone actually play Russian Roulette? Or is basically an urban myth, like the "snuff films" which supposedly exist but which nobody can ever produce.

Common among elderly women. See Sunday's Game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RW1Yil7ZRk)

[HorseloverFat]

I played it by myself once with my .357 magnum revolver. I (obviously) won but it was super terrifying. Never again.

Whoa. Is there a story here?

[Chronos]

Quoth Argent Towers: Guns don't "go off!" That makes them pretty useless, then, doesn't it? A gun that doesn't go off is just a paperweight, or maybe a club. I'd guess that your objection is that guns don't go off without cause, such as someone pulling the trigger, but that doesn't seem like a reasonable objection to make to the wording in the article.

[Lemur866]

The article is pretty vague on just what caused the gun to go off. It says he put the gun to his head, and the gun went off. It seems from the context of the story that the gun went off because he pulled the trigger, but it's never explicitly stated.

[Superhal]

In terms of gambling odds, it depends on the rules. If the rules are each person spins before pulling the trigger, the odds are 1/(number of rounds.) For a 6 shooter, the odds would be 1/6. However, if turns are taken without re-spins, then the next person has a huge disadvantage (1/5 chance.) Each successive person would have worse odds, and the 6th person would have a 100% chance of being killed.

[Cisco]

In terms of gambling odds, it depends on the rules. If the rules are each person spins before pulling the trigger, the odds are 1/(number of rounds.) For a 6 shooter, the odds would be 1/6. However, if turns are taken without re-spins, then the next person has a huge disadvantage (1/5 chance.) Each successive person would have worse odds, and the 6th person would have a 100% chance of being killed.
Actually for a six-shooter the odds would be 1:5.

1/6 is the probability.

[Uncertain]

However, if turns are taken without re-spins, then the next person has a huge disadvantage (1/5 chance.) Each successive person would have worse odds, and the 6th person would have a 100% chance of being killed.

That's not what the OP is about. But just to clarify--and I'm not saying that you said otherwise--it's no worse to be later than earlier in this scenario (unless, of course, you're seventh or higher). The second person has a 1/5 chance of being killed if he fires, but only a 5/6 chance of firing, so his chance of being killed is 1/6, just like the first person.

Now, if Monty shows him an empty chamber....

[Shagnasty]

Whoa. Is there a story here?

There isn't much of a story. I was a young, a little depressed, drunk, and in the mood for a thrill so I played one round of Russian Roulette by myself. It was terrifying but I spun the chamber, closed my eyes, snapped it shut and then put my revolver in my mouth and pulled the trigger. I just figured I would let fate sort things out once and for all. Click. That put things in perspective for a long time although I don't recommend it as therapy for other people.

[Shagnasty]

Common among elderly women. See Sunday's Game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RW1Yil7ZRk)

I am about the biggest fan of dark comedies there is but that one out of control although still very well done. Sunday's Game is an extremely disturbing short film. I can't even imagine what the person that wrote that was thinking. I almost want to watch it again but I am not sure I can take another viewing of it today.

[Jamicat]

Mine holds 15 bullets. So, if I remove 14 and just have one in there can I play?...
Oh, and I don't have one of them there fancy turny things to spin, but I guess I wont make much difference...Will it? :rolleyes:

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2000-04.html

[Stranger On A Train]

Quoth Argent Towers:That makes them pretty useless, then, doesn't it? A gun that doesn't go off is just a paperweight, or maybe a club. I'd guess that your objection is that guns don't go off without cause, such as someone pulling the trigger, but that doesn't seem like a reasonable objection to make to the wording in the article.The problem is that many people who aren't familiar with firearms literally assume that a loaded firearm can "go off" at any time without intervention, which implies a greater inherent danger and diverts attention from the culpability of the wielder. While some old or very cheap weapons are prone to unintentional discharge if dropped or otherwise subjected to a strong blow, all modern good quality firearms have internal safeties that prevent this from occurring, and despite urban legends about mass failures very, very few incidences of failure have occurred. Similarly vague statements are often used to justify an obvious suicide as an accident or mechanical defect i.e. "he was shot while cleaning his weapon," even though the first thing you would do in cleaning a weapon is unload it.

One woman who I trained actually refused to chamber a round until she was standing at the firing lane with the gun raised and ready to fire because she feared that the gun might "go off" on its own, even after I explained to her in detail that the particular firearm she was using (a Glock 22) could not fire unless the trigger was fully depressed as it had both a trigger safety and a firing pin block. This was not really an issue because on the range you don't want shooters to put weapons in battery until they are ready to fire, but this was a defensive shooting class and I explained to her that owing to degradation of fine motor skills under extreme stress it was inadvisable to keep a weapon unchambered until she made the decision to fire as it would be very easy to short-stroke the weapon, or to clutch the gun with the trigger accidentally depressed as she chambered a round, possibly having the gun discharge in an uncontrolled direction.

In the case of the person cited, it is not only clear that he (presumably accidentally) pulled the trigger, he also violated Rules #1, #2, and #3 of basic gun safety. This is what we call evolution in action.

Stranger

[Švejk]

So what do they call Russian Roullette in Russia? Roullette? Then what do they call the casino game?

They call it Russian Roulette, or 'Hussar's Roulette'. link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_roulette), and the Russian wiki as well, just for laughs: here (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0)

[PatriotGrrrl]

Are any pistols prone to slamfires? Seems to me I've only heard of it happening in rifles, in particular the SKS.

[Una Persson]

I just finished an experiment where I loaded one chamber of my Ruger Super Redhawk .44 magnum with a live round, spun the "well-oiled" cylinder, and pushed the cylinder back into place gently (without snapping it).

I DID NOT PULL THE TRIGGER OR AIM THE WEAPON AT ANYTHING WHICH COULD BE INJURED, I MERELY NOTED WHERE THE BULLET ENDED UP.

I numbered the chambers from 1-6, with 1 being in-line with the barrel, and proceeding counter-clockwise from there as it would appear with the gun pointed at a target. That is, if you point the gun at a target, 1 is in-line with the barrel, 2 is the first cylinder to the right, etc.

I did 200 clockwise spins, and tried my best to move the cylinder up without turning it. The results.

Position Times
1 (barrel) 20 (0.100)
2 25 (0.125)
3 35 (0.175)
4 (bottom) 38 (0.190)
5 41 (0.205)
6 (death) 41 (0.205)

My gun beat the odds of 0.167. It's obviously cursed.

[Stranger On A Train]

Are any pistols prone to slamfires? Seems to me I've only heard of it happening in rifles, in particular the SKS.Although I don't know of any pistols that are prone to repeating slam-fires the way a (dirty) SKS is, any pistol with a one-piece firing pin can potentially slam-fire if you drop the slide on a chambered round (i.e. insert the round through the ejection port and release the slide, as seen in countless Hollywood movies). Many cheap pistols without a firing pin blocking safety can discharge if the muzzle or hammer is struck with sufficient force. The same is true for most .22LR pistols, which typically don't have such safeties.

I just finished an experiment where I loaded one chamber of my Ruger Super Redhawk .44 magnum with a live round, spun the "well-oiled" cylinder, and pushed the cylinder back into place gently (without snapping it).

I DID NOT PULL THE TRIGGER OR AIM THE WEAPON AT ANYTHING WHICH COULD BE INJURED, I MERELY NOTED WHERE THE BULLET ENDED UP.

I numbered the chambers from 1-6, with 1 being in-line with the barrel, and proceeding counter-clockwise from there as it would appear with the gun pointed at a target. That is, if you point the gun at a target, 1 is in-line with the barrel, 2 is the first cylinder to the right, etc.

I did 200 clockwise spins, and tried my best to move the cylinder up without turning it. The results.

Position Times
1 (barrel) 20 (0.100)
2 25 (0.125)
3 35 (0.175)
4 (bottom) 38 (0.190)
5 41 (0.205)
6 (death) 41 (0.205)

My gun beat the odds of 0.167. It's obviously cursed.Let me be the first to say how awesome it is that you own a Super Redhawk, and understand how to properly handle the gun (i.e. push the cylinder in place rather than violently snapping it, Hollywood style). You are some gun enthusiast's dream girl.

Second, just for the education of those not familiar with the operation of revolvers, permit me to point out that pulling the trigger causes the cylinder to rotate one chamber (typically counterclockwise from the perspective of the shooter) while cocking the hammer before dropping it, such that a round that is initially in line with the barrel will be shifted one chamber away.

I'm not clear from your description whether you removed the bullet between spins or not, but the statistical disparity between shots may well be due to an imbalance of friction in the bearing surface of the extractor rod and forward crane. Although the weight of one loaded chamber will definitely cause an imbalance, I would not expect it to dominate the final position of the cylinder, and especially not to an order of magnitude difference.

Stranger

[Richard Pearse]

In the case of the person cited, it is not only clear that he (presumably accidentally) pulled the trigger, he also violated Rules #1, #2, and #3 of basic gun safety. This is what we call evolution in action.

Stranger

I assumed he'd pulled the trigger on purpose but made a mistake with the safety (i.e., thought it was safe when it wasn't.)

I wonder if the woman new.

"ok honey what about this one is the safety on or off?"
"It's off."
"Nope, it's on, see?"

BANG

:eek:

[Noone Special]

Mine holds 15 bullets. So, if I remove 14 and just have one in there can I play?...
Oh, and I don't have one of them there fancy turny things to spin, but I guess I wont make much difference...Will it? :rolleyes:

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2000-04.htmlI believe playing Russian Roulette with a magazined pistol rather than with a revolver is called Polish Roulette.... :p

Re: Jackknifed Juggernaut (post #16) -- Deer Hunter was a movie. 'Nuff said. As others are mentioned, all the discussion of physics is nullified by the fact that your not supposed to wait for the chamber to finish spinning.... And even if you did wait, you'd have to be holding the gun horizontal or nearly so for your idea to even have a chance of being true.

Re: the discussion of Scylla's second post -- I believe his intention was to check the gun rather than fire it -- And you'd still want to use an inert weight there. Gun Safety 101:

Loading a gun (of any sort) with live ammunition (yes, including blanks) should be done only if you reasonably believe you may need to fire it
Pointing a gun at any person, animal or object should never be done unless you absolutely intend to fire the gun and to hit the target

[Stefan moss]

I like to hunt deer with a revolver with one bullet, for the challenge.

would be a fairer challenge if someone was simultaneously hunting you too.

[Richard Pearse]

Loading a gun (of any sort) with live ammunition (yes, including blanks) should be done only if you reasonably believe you may need to fire it
Pointing a gun at any person, animal or object should never be done unless you absolutely intend to fire the gun and to hit the target
Similar to what a cop friend of mine was taught: "Don't point it at something you don't want to shoot, and don't shoot anything you don't want to kill."

[Uncertain]

the statistical disparity between shots

Is there is a real disparity, as opposed to random deviations due to finite sample size (akin to getting 110 heads in 100 fair coin-tosses by chance)? For death versus the other possibilities, the p-value by a binomial test is 0.15, which is not statistically significant. However, a chi-squared test of equality among outcomes gives a p-value of 0.039. The only value that is individually significantly different from 1/6 is 20/200 for "barrel". So it looks like things are unequal, but the individual probabilities should be taken as rough estimates.

I anxiously await the results of the full experiment with 5000 spins.

[Alessan]

I believe playing Russian Roulette with a magazined pistol rather than with a revolver is called Polish Roulette.... :p



Actually, it's called the "Itzik Game". Or was that after your time?

[Chronos]

The problem is that many people who aren't familiar with firearms literally assume that a loaded firearm can "go off" at any time without intervention, which implies a greater inherent danger and diverts attention from the culpability of the wielder.Sure, but in this case it's kind of hard to divert attention from the culpability of the wielder, since it's pretty abundantly clear that the primary cause, by far, was a case of terminal stupidity. If it was "I was cleaning my gun but it just went off and accidentally killed my wife", then the objection that guns don't "go off" would be a reasonable one, but I don't see what purpose is served here by such an objection.

[Noone Special]

Actually, it's called the "Itzik Game". Or was that after your time?After my time, I guess. Or just not popular in the Air Force.

As an aside, it took me an inordinate amount of time to google the explanation of the "game." Looks like Israeli bloggers are really good about saying "It's a game with guns, sort of like Russian Roulette, and I'm not going to tell you how it's done!!!!" -- which I find both amazing and gratifying.

[PatriotGrrrl]

Gun Safety 101:

Loading a gun (of any sort) with live ammunition (yes, including blanks) should be done only if you reasonably believe you may need to fire it
Pointing a gun at any person, animal or object should never be done unless you absolutely intend to fire the gun and to hit the target


So I can't ever go shooting for fun? I mean I don't NEED to go target shooting. And I can't ever carry unless I 'm believe I'm going to need to shoot someone?

And that should be 'unless you are, as far as you know at the time, OK with firing the gun and hitting the target. ' Otherwise, if you (or a cop) were to pull a gun on someone, and it turned out they did not need to be shot, you'd be required to kill them anyway.

Plus you'd never be able to dryfire.

,

[Noone Special]

So I can't ever go shooting for fun? I mean I don't NEED to go target shooting. And I can't ever carry unless I 'm believe I'm going to need to shoot someone?I don't get where I said that? I thought it was obvious that I accept target shooting as a "need to fire" in the wider sense of "need."

And that should be 'unless you are, as far as you know at the time, OK with firing the gun and hitting the target. ' Otherwise, if you (or a cop) were to pull a gun on someone, and it turned out they did not need to be shot, you'd be required to kill them anyway. [/quote]I'll accept your correction here :)

I think you're getting me wrong -- I'm not a rabid anti-gun person. Most Israelis aren't. I *am* pro gun-control, in the sense that I think guns should be licensed and tracked, unlike what I perceive to be the prevalent attitude among many American gun enthusiasts -- but I'm not anti-gun in general. I owned a hand gun (licensed and registered) until a few years ago a relic of my Military days.

Plus you'd never be able to dryfire.Not sure what you mean by this, but I'll assume it, too, is covered by your corrections to my poorly constructed thoughts.

[Dinsdale]

Certainly no evidence, but I recently read a Jack Reacher novel in which Lee Child repeats the "legend" that with a well-maintained quality gun the odds are far better than 6:1 due to the weight of the bullet. I believe the revolver in question was a Colt Anaconda, but I know nothing of guns.

[Una Persson]

I'm not clear from your description whether you removed the bullet between spins or not, but the statistical disparity between shots may well be due to an imbalance of friction in the bearing surface of the extractor rod and forward crane. Although the weight of one loaded chamber will definitely cause an imbalance, I would not expect it to dominate the final position of the cylinder, and especially not to an order of magnitude difference.
I did not remove the bullet from the cylinder each time, instead I typically let the chamber with the bullet rotate to the bottom position each time.

[Una Persson]

I anxiously await the results of the full experiment with 5000 spins.
Ha! Not likely; I have things to do.

[PatriotGrrrl]

I think you're getting me wrong -- I'm not a rabid anti-gun person.


I didn't say you were. But you seem to think there's something wrong, or unacceptably dangerous, about keeping a gun loaded when you are not going to fire it, as if it might 'go off' by itself.

Dry firing is pulling the trigger on a gun that is unloaded or loaded with snap caps (dummy rounds). Of course it should only be done with the gun pointed at a safe target or in a safe direction - just in case it isn't really unloaded.

[Alessan]

As an aside, it took me an inordinate amount of time to google the explanation of the "game." Looks like Israeli bloggers are really good about saying "It's a game with guns, sort of like Russian Roulette, and I'm not going to tell you how it's done!!!!" -- which I find both amazing and gratifying.

Note that I didn't explain it myself.

[Lumpy]

I think you're getting me wrong -- I'm not a rabid anti-gun person. Most Israelis aren't. I *am* pro gun-control, in the sense that I think guns should be licensed and tracked, unlike what I perceive to be the prevalent attitude among many American gun enthusiasts -- but I'm not anti-gun in general. I owned a hand gun (licensed and registered) until a few years ago a relic of my Military daysIn the U.S., the phrase "gun control" is used almost entirely in a context meaning sharply restricting the availability of firearms and especially handguns: who may own or carry them, where it is lawful or unlawful to carry them, and what classes of weapons may be broadly banned. You evidently meant the phrase in a much more neutral way which might be paraphrased "gun regulation" (if that hasn't become a codeword for partial or total prohibition of guns). Unfortunately those who believe in gun ownership have become paranoid- arguably rightly so- about anything that might be considered the first step of a "slippery slope" towards the possible abolition of firearms.

[Stealth Potato]

Bah. Now, hunting bear with one bullet; aye, that's a challenge.

I went hunting bear with a single bullet once.

In retrospect, it would have been easier if I had brought a gun.

[Argent Towers]

And a casing, and some powder, and a primer.

[PatriotGrrrl]

Oh my God.

I just read a long and detailed article about the "Itzik Game", which I had previously never heard of. Apparently it is quite common, not the act of an occasional suicidal soldier. And apparently most of the soldiers who don't participate, don't try and stop it, or report it!

That is FUCKED UP!

(Not necessarily worse than Russian roulette. But I've never heard that that was ever common, either.)

[PatriotGrrrl]

Umm, no insult meant to you or your military, for which i generally have great respect.

I realize that as a civilian, I don't understand the stress etc. of combat, and I do realize that war can change a man in ways that can seem strange to civilians.

[Sincere]

Could you link to the article about the "Itzik game" please? You've raised my curiosity.

[Fubaya]

The Itzik game is pulling the slide back, putting a loaded magazine in the pistol, hitting the slide and mag release at the same time and finding out the hard way if the magazine dropped before a round was chambered.

[Alessan]

Oh my God.

I just read a long and detailed article about the "Itzik Game", which I had previously never heard of. Apparently it is quite common, not the act of an occasional suicidal soldier. And apparently most of the soldiers who don't participate, don't try and stop it, or report it!

That is FUCKED UP!

(Not necessarily worse than Russian roulette. But I've never heard that that was ever common, either.)

I think your sources are overstating things a bit. Every Israeli soldier has heard of a guy who's done it or a unit that uses it as part of some hazing ritual, but it's all "friend of a friend" stuff. I'm sure it happens every now and then, but it's certainly not common practice.

[cerberus]

I ran a run of 200 trials with my S&W .44 Magnum (Pre-Model 29): 33 of 200 trials would been kills.

[Cisco]

I ran a run of 200 trials with my S&W .44 Magnum (Pre-Model 29): 33 of 200 trials would been kills.

Did you really do this? There is virtually no error there. It's 5:1 against.

[cerberus]

Yes, and it's what theory predicts: 1 chamber in 6 is charged. On each trial, spin the cylinder, pop it in. In theory, spinning the cylinder randomizes the "firing chamber" - the chamber that is fired when the trigger is squeezed.

I suspect that repeating the experiment will produce noisier samples with replication, but n=200 is a good sample size for an event with probability 1/6.

[DesertDog]

If there are no witnesses, how can it be sure whether Russian roulette was involved or not? A body is found with a self-inflicted gunshot and a pistol with one casing in the cylinder. Who's to say whether the victim put a round in the pistol and summarily shot himself, or played RR one time too many?

[Scylla]

Una:

Thanks for doing that. It's so cool that you did!

The results are so unexpected and counterintuitive that it makes me wonder if there is not something about your handgun causing it favor a particular cylinder when spun.

Obviously, the validity of the test depends on a fair cylinder where each cylinder would normally have a 1/6 chance per spin of landing at the death position.

May I suggest a followup? Mark one cylinder somehow, than spin the cylinder completey unloaded a number of times to see if your weapon is showing a preference.

[Jragon]

Certainly no evidence, but I recently read a Jack Reacher novel in which Lee Child repeats the "legend" that with a well-maintained quality gun the odds are far better than 6:1 due to the weight of the bullet. I believe the revolver in question was a Colt Anaconda, but I know nothing of guns.

Sorry, I know this is probably stupid, but can you define "better" please? Better as in "closer to 1" or better as in "less likely to die."

[Jimmy Joe Meager]

I like to hunt deer with a revolver with one bullet, for the challenge.The deer prefer it that way too.

[Superhal]

As long as this thread is being resurrected...

One thought I had was that whenever you talk about coin flipping, the qualifier "unbiased coin" is always used. A typical US quarter, for example, is biased towards tails by ~1% because of weight.

In terms of russian roulette (RR) the same logic should apply: an unbiased gun. The weight of the bullet shouldn't matter when calculating odds or probability.

That being said, it depends how you spin the gun. I have seen (in films) RR being played by rolling the cylinder against their sleeve, which would counteract the weight of the bullet.

On the other hand, if a biased gun is used, then there is a clear advantage for any player simply by holding the gun at a particular angle during the spin.

That being said, if RR was an Olympic sport, then they must spin the chamber before each player, and it is possible to go hundreds of rounds without a winner.