MLB post season: 2009

[What Exit?]

I'm only half paying attention, but was there no possibility of a double switch with Mariano and a different outfielder? Weird that the best reliever in the game has to leave the game for a pinch-hitter, and then Girardi went for the mix-and-match thing with only a handful of pitchers left. Oh well, he'd be a genius if they won, I guess.
Well the Yanks were playing away and Joe managed to keep every reliever available for tonights game. Well, maybe not Hughes.
Way to over-manage Girardi.. you only had your 3-4-5 coming up in the top of the next inning... frigging douche
Pulling Robertson was odd, almost as odd as having Marte face one lefty to end an inning and pulling Coke in to face a different lefty to start the next. Or pinch-hitting Hairston for Gardner who actually has better numbers and is a fairly good light hitter. The fact he used up his bench so fast was depressing.

However, not letting Mo' pitch another inning I was OK with. It was the right move in my opinion consider the game situation and history and facing another game the following night.

Joe G suffers from Tony LaRussa syndrome in the Post Season apparently. He never manages like this normally.

Hopefully CC is OK on short rest, I very much think this was the correct call. Hopefully the Yankee batters remember how to hit. Jeter, A-Rod and Posada have really carried the team. The bottom of the order has done nothing. If the Yanks were hitting at all, Joe G would not have had the chance to over-manage. Of course this same style of over-managing has worked 2 out of 3 times so far, but it seems like he took it to another level last night.

[Marley23]

Joe G suffers from Tony LaRussa syndrome in the Post Season apparently.
I was thinking of it as Bobby V's Disease, but yes. There was no reason to pull Robertson, and you do not get bonus points for using up your entire bench and all your relievers. (It's baseball, not Scrabble.) Most of those moves worked Saturday, but not yesterday. I hope he stops this.

[BobLibDem]

I don't know that Rivera pitches a 2nd inning anyway, he has thrown a lot this post-season, but I generally agree. Has any pinch runner thus far made the difference between scoring and not scoring? Compare that to the amount of times a lackluster hitter comes up in a big spot, because the better hitter had already been removed.

Amen to that. I thought Leyland made a mistake running for Ordonez in game 163 and could have used his bat later. Then last night, Joe and Tim were whining because the Angels didn't bring in a pinch runner for the man on third freaking base!

[Ichbin Dubist]

Well the Yanks were playing away and Joe managed to keep every reliever available for tonights game. Well, maybe not Hughes.

So was Cervelli the last guy off the bench? (I can't find a postseason roster for the life of me.) I guess that makes sense: 3 catchers + DH = shallow bench. I wonder what he would have done if this was an elimination game, though -- have Mariano bat, I suppose. (Is there a Yankee reliever who can bunt worth a damn? That's always an interesting situation.)

[BobLibDem]

Hey, Rivera has an RBI this year, he could have batted for himself.

[What Exit?]

So was Cervelli the last guy off the bench? (I can't find a postseason roster for the life of me.) I guess that makes sense: 3 catchers + DH = shallow bench. I wonder what he would have done if this was an elimination game, though -- have Mariano bat, I suppose. (Is there a Yankee reliever who can bunt worth a damn? That's always an interesting situation.)
Cervelli, Molina and Guzman were all that were left. He took Guzman over Hinske. Also CC Sabathia probably had the most power on the bench.

[asterion]

Geeze, what is going on with the umping in this game? A bad call on the pickoff at second, a bad call on the tag-up....

[Crawlspace]

. . . and now another bad call at 3B. McClelland is not having a good game.

[SawEverythingTwice]

Geeze, what is going on with the umping in this game? A bad call on the pickoff at second, a bad call on the tag-up....

Third base ump just missed another one. Two Yankees both get tagged while they're off the base and only one gets called out. How'd he miss that?

[E-Sabbath]

Man, the Yankees bribed _all_ the refs this game.

... seriously, what the hell?

[BobLibDem]

Are the umps tired from working the Arkansas-Florida game? Jeez-o-peets, that call where Posada and Cano were both off the bag at 3rd and both got tagged while off the bag and only one got called out was the worst call I've ever seen in my life. Then you had the bad call on Swisher being picked off at second, only to be made up for by another bad call on Swisher leaving third early on a fly ball. Worst umpiring ever, this postseason. MLB really needs to do something.

[What Exit?]

It is the worst umpiring I can recall seeing. The collection of bad calls is sad. McClelland was clearly out of position to render a call on Swisher leaving early. I see no way anyone could have missed the double tag of Cano and Posada. Worst pair of calls I have seen in a single game and they are lucky neither affected the final outcome. The Yanks did not take advantage of Cano being called safe on 3rd.

The play at 2nd on Swisher is a typical bang bang play and not a big deal. Same a little later when Gardner I think it was, was called out but actually slid in underneath the tag. It could have been someone else though.

[D_Odds]

I hope that McClelland, at the very least, had his ass handed to him behind closed doors after the game. I don't like bad umping, even when it benefits my team.

Still, even if McClelland erred on the side of the Halos for every call in that game, the result would not have changed. CC, A-Rod and the rest just buried them. I guess we now know how CC pitches in the ALCS on 3 days rest. Next experiment...the World Series.

[Marley23]

Sounds like it's just as well that I slept through most of this one. Nice to have a game where I was actually that relaxed about the outcome. The over the last five games has been excellent, but it was about damn time the team started hitting with runners on base.

I couldn't believe some sportswriters were questioning the decision to pitch Sabathia on three days' rest. Were these people AWOL last year, when he went out on three days' rest over and over for Milwaukee and was flat out incredible? Yes, he got tired in the postseason after he did it four or five starts in a row, but... do the math. A slightly tired Sabathia > Gaudin.

[What Exit?]

I hope that McClelland, at the very least, had his ass handed to him behind closed doors after the game. I don't like bad umping, even when it benefits my team.

Still, even if McClelland erred on the side of the Halos for every call in that game, the result would not have changed. CC, A-Rod and the rest just buried them. I guess we now know how CC pitches in the ALCS on 3 days rest. Next experiment...the World Series.
I agree strongly on the first part and as far as CC, well see the next.
I couldn't believe some sportswriters were questioning the decision to pitch Sabathia on three days' rest. Were these people AWOL last year, when he went out on three days' rest over and over for Milwaukee and was flat out incredible? Yes, he got tired in the postseason after he did it four or five starts in a row, but... do the math. A slightly tired Sabathia > Gaudin.
The sportswriters, Fox pre-game and Michael Kay needed something to talk about but what shocked me is everyone was talking about how good Kazmir was against the Yanks and ignored 3 large facts.

CC is a horse than has often worked on 3 days rest and only ran into issues in the past as he was asked to do too many in a row.

Kazmir had only pitched twice in the prior month before last night and the last one was October 3rd. Yes, October 3rd. How was this not part of the story?

Those two starts, one was against the Yanks in Anaheim and he lost and did not look too good.

[Marley23]

What the hell DID happen to Scott Kazmir? Since the Rays weren't really in contention this year I didn't pay much attention to him. I was very surprised when he was traded and then saw what kind of year he was having...

[What Exit?]

What the hell DID happen to Scott Kazmir? Since the Rays weren't really in contention this year I didn't pay much attention to him. I was very surprised when he was traded and then saw what kind of year he was having...
He is a 25 year old lefty with some control issues. If you are not patient, he will strike out a lot of your batters and look great. If you are patient, you can usually keep him from get 6 innings in and walk fairly often. He has good and bad games against the Yanks and always has. He actually pitched well for the Angels and helped them easily hold off the Rangers and Mariners.

Why Tampa moved him? They have limited resources and his extension is fairly expensive, I think it is $12 million next year or at least the following year. He is somewhat injury prone and only thrown 200 innings once in his young career and they decided for what the Angels offered they could use Kazmir's money to keep other talented and more reliable players. Kazmir might turn into an Ace someday or he might just stay and injury prone lefty with control issues that shows moments of brilliance. I think the trade made sense for both teams involved.

[D_Odds]

The sportswriters, Fox pre-game and Michael Kay needed something to talk about but what shocked me is everyone was talking about how good Kazmir was against the Yanks and ignored 3 large facts. Too many talking empty heads trying to fill up too much air-time with too little interesting to say, coupled with too many lame producers forcing them down the "company" story line (which was trying to make the game seem evenly pitched, trying to draw in more viewers).

[ElvisL1ves]

Could the umps' performance this postseason finally embarrass them and MLB into some changes?

This was priceless: (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/10/21/umpires_calls_in_playoffs_have_him_in_a_blue_period/)A remorseful McClelland took full blame for the botched calls.

“After looking at replays, I’m not sure I believe the replay of the first one,’’ he said. “I said in my heart I thought he left too soon."
Incredible.

“Then the second one it showed Cano was off the bag when he was tagged. I did not see that, for whatever reason."It was right in front of you, about 3 feet away.

"I’m just out there trying to do my job and do it the best I can.’’If that's the best you can do, McClelland, it's time to go home and turn the job over to somebody with functioning eyeballs.

[What Exit?]

If that's the best you can do, McClelland, it's time to go home and turn the job over to somebody with functioning eyeballs.
100% correct. It is time for him to retire or baseball to can him. He is a bad ump anyway. I have a rule of thumb. If the Ump is good, I do not know his name. If I know his name he is a bad ump. I know McClelland's name and have for years.

[Ichbin Dubist]

I have a rule of thumb. If the Ump is good, I do not know his name. If I know his name he is a bad ump. I know McClelland's name and have for years.

Better yet, you remember their nickname. Exhibit A, Balkin' Bob Davidson. It's like being "Incredibly Wide Strike Zone McGee."

Meanwhile, this Mets fan is apparently looking at an October of played out and self-cancelling schadenfreudes. I put myself on the rooting DL.

[BobLibDem]

I thought he looked like a guy with a stiff neck. He didn't look at Swisher's feet on the tag up play, he got faked out by Swisher's upper body motion that preceded his getting off the base. I don't think he saw Cano was off the base because he didn't seem to be looking down. He was in poor position but I think he had trouble moving his neck.

[What Exit?]

Better yet, you remember their nickname. Exhibit A, Balkin' Bob Davidson. It's like being "Incredibly Wide Strike Zone McGee."

Meanwhile, this Mets fan is apparently looking at an October of played out and self-cancelling schadenfreudes. I put myself on the rooting DL.
I don't remember Davidson? How long ago? Was it when umpires were by league still?
I thought he looked like a guy with a stiff neck. He didn't look at Swisher's feet on the tag up play, he got faked out by Swisher's upper body motion that preceded his getting off the base. I don't think he saw Cano was off the base because he didn't seem to be looking down. He was in poor position but I think he had trouble moving his neck.
Umpire basics on the Swisher one, the umpire is suppose to back up to be able to see the runner and the fly ball.

The Cano one was he called what he expected to see and not what actually happened.

[ElvisL1ves]

I am so not looking forward to seeing each manager issued a red challenge flag. :( But the umps will have brought that on themselves.

[What Exit?]

I am so not looking forward to seeing each manager issued a red challenge flag. :( But the umps will have brought that on themselves.
I don't want it, I don't. If MLB just did the right thing and started rewarding playoff games to good umps instead of senior umps it would be a big step up. Review the umps and shuffle them out if they are not good.

[Ichbin Dubist]

I don't remember Davidson? How long ago? Was it when umpires were by league still?

NL umpire from 1982-99, but he's still around.

[RickJay]

I have a rule of thumb. If the Ump is good, I do not know his name. If I know his name he is a bad ump.
Truer words were never spoken.

[Mr Buttons]

I'm very happy tonight, Phils are back in the WS. I'm expecting we're gonna fight the Yankees, which is what I called back when the playoffs started (sorry, I didn't post that opinion on the dope to cite at this late of date...).

I repeatedly told everyone I talked to that I hope we don't fight the Yankees in the end, they're the only team I was worried about from the start. If the Phillies can knock off the Yankees in the series, I half-heartedly predict 10-20% of Philadelphia might go up in flames due to drunken/ornery fans.

After getting beat 11-0, a team can bounce back. Lose 11-0, and then lose the next game in the bottom of the 9th w/ 2 outs, and you're now down 3-1 instead of 2-2... that's a very hard thing to overcome, even if you try your damnest to keep Broxton off the mound.

[Troy McClure SF]

I'm very happy tonight, Phils are back in the WS.

Congrats, and thank you for knocking off the Dodgers.

[NinjaChick]

NL champions two years running? Goddamn right the Phillies are! Bring on the Yankees, because we're ready for a fight.

[Colibri]

Congrats, and thank you for knocking off the Dodgers.

Yes. As a Yankees fan, I do NOT want to see Manny Ramirez in the opposing batter's box in the postseason ever again. :D

[pricciar]

Woohoo!

Awesome! 2 NL Pennants in a row!

What a great season it has been! Keep it going boys!

[Crawlspace]

100% correct. It is time for him to retire or baseball to can him. He is a bad ump anyway. I have a rule of thumb. If the Ump is good, I do not know his name. If I know his name he is a bad ump. I know McClelland's name and have for years.I don't know what you're talking about. Tim McClelland is widely regarded as one of, if not the best umpires in baseball. He had a bad game. You probably know his name because broadcasters get pissed off by his deliberate strike calls.

[Locrian]

Woohoo!

Awesome! 2 NL Pennants in a row!

What a great season it has been! Keep it going boys!

KA BOOOOOOM!!!!!! Stupid TBS actually said something I agree with:
"This team [Phillies] are an American League batting team stuck in the national league."

A bit insulting to the NL, but after watching this I think the Yankees are in trouble this time. :D

[What Exit?]

I don't know what you're talking about. Tim McClelland is widely regarded as one of, if not the best umpires in baseball. He had a bad game. You probably know his name because broadcasters get pissed off by his deliberate strike calls.
Actually that is a good call, it is one part of the reason I know his name, the slow strike calls. It annoys me too. He has had other "bad games" including the classic Pine Tag incident game way back when I was a teen and he was a young umpire. I suspect these factors are a big part of why I recognize his name.

[storyteller0910]

So it's the Yankees and the Phillies? Can I root for Swine Flu?

[What Exit?]

So it's the Yankees and the Phillies? Can I root for Swine Flu?
Not yet, Yanks still have to close the deal.

Serious question, in 1986 I was rooting against the Red Sox and thus for the Mets to win. If the Yanks make it in, which team will you be rooting against?

[storyteller0910]

Not yet, Yanks still have to close the deal.

Serious question, in 1986 I was rooting against the Red Sox and thus for the Mets to win. If the Yanks make it in, which team will you be rooting against?

Let me put it this way.

Imagine Satan starts a baseball team. He puts Joe Stalin at first base, John Wayne Gacy at second, and Barry Bonds in left. He makes my single most evil ex-girlfriend the manager, and lets Ronan Tynan sing "Achy Breaky Heart" in the middle of every seventh inning. He builds a new stadium literally using the skeletons of the Damned. Imagine somehow this imaginary team makes it all the way to the World Series, where they encounter a plucky team from Philadelphia made up entirely of orphaned children.

I would still hope the Phillies lost in four games, and then I'd hope they played four more, and the Phillies lost all of those games, too.

The Yankees are the annoying classmate who thinks he's better than everyone else.

The Phillies are the Enemy.

-------

Though if we're being honest, I've been sorta-kinda rooting for the Yankees this postseason. I wanted the Dodgers to win the World Series, but the Yankees were second. Given my loyalties, I've been sick of all the reflexive anti-New York stuff I've been seeing out of sports fans lately. I kind of want to see them all have to deal with another World Champion coming out of this city, especially when the football Giants win it all this winter.

Plus, the Yankees got rid of the two guys against whom I had to root at all costs, so I don't hate them as much anymore. HA ha, Mike Mussina, no ring for you!

[D_Odds]

Serious question, in 1986 I was rooting against the Red Sox and thus for the Mets to win.I was rooting for a meteor, or for a wildcat baseball strike to suspend the World Series for the year.

My roommate and good friend was a Mets fan, and I didn't want to hear it from him all winter long. He was also a Jets fan, whereas you know who my favorite football team is. I got gloating equality back a few months later.

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm hoping the umpires mistakenly award the championship to the Pirates.

[Carl Corey]

That was a hell of a game. Go Phils.

Last year there was a problem with people climbing street lamp poles, so this year the city decided to grease the poles. All the way down Broad Street.

You may write your own "greased pole" jokes.

[astorian]

We're looking at a rematch of 1950.

So, how many of the old Whiz Kids are still around? Think we'll be seeing and hearing from Robin Roberts and Curt Simmons?

Which of the 1950 Yankees are still around? Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford, for sure. Who else?

[What Exit?]

We're looking at a rematch of 1950.

So, how many of the old Whiz Kids are still around? Think we'll be seeing and hearing from Robin Roberts and Curt Simmons?

Which of the 1950 Yankees are still around? Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford, for sure. Who else?
Jerry Coleman and Doctor Bobby Brown are still around but Doc hasn't gotten to an old timers games for years.

We recently lost Hank Bauer & Scooter. DiMaggio, Woodling and Billy Johnson are gone. Tommy Byrne, Lopat, Reynolds and Raschi are all gone. Joe Page too.

Some of the other backup players could be alive.

[Marley23]

Really love to see Tex get a hit here.

[E-Sabbath]

Seventh inning, six runs. Huh.

[D_Odds]

didn't last long

[CircleofWillis]

Damaso Marte? Really? With Joba already warming up? Was Josh Towers not available?

[D_Odds]

Chad Gaudin pitched last night. What's with these bonehead managers?

[Hawkeyeop]

Can we institute a rule where if you throw a pick off throw you have to pitch to the batter? That Rivera delay was ridiculous.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I thought Fuentes was going to piss that away. He looked as relieved as hell after that pop up.

[Darryl Lict]

Yeah baby! Angels win! Christ, talk about giving up a huge friggin' lead. My shitty 4x$216 world series tickets are still alive! That was pretty exciting. Back to NYC, I've got the faith!

[Bootis]

Intentionally walking Arod was a horrible, horrible strategical decision. I wish the Angels had lost on principal because of that.

[gonzomax]

I thought walking him was dangerous and not too smart. But they got away with it.

[Southern Yankee]

A few observations:

A. I really hate it when a team bails out a pitcher, like the Yankees did for Burnett last night, and he comes right in and gives it back. Way to step up, AJ.

B. Has Joba gotten anyone out this post season? Why anyone thinks he's a situational reliever is beyond me.

C. The Angels showed a lot of toughness coming back after the Yankees tied it. I'm concerned.

D. Even with gimpy wheels and never having met a pitch he didn't like, Vlad Guererro is still a dangerous hitter and I hate seeing him up with men on base.

[E-Sabbath]

God, Swisher vs Fuentes. What can you say? It was a case of who lost first.

[CircleofWillis]

A. I really hate it when a team bails out a pitcher, like the Yankees did for Burnett last night, and he comes right in and gives it back. Way to step up, AJ.
.

This was another move that puzzled me last night. Clearly Burnett didn't have his stuff last night. Even when he wasnt giving up runs, AJ was putting men on base and being bailed out by defense and shots right at people. Why bring out a guy with nearly 100 pitches of not his best stuff after your hitters have put the team back into the game?


B. Has Joba gotten anyone out this post season? Why anyone thinks he's a situational reliever is beyond me.


Maybe not.. but at least Joba EXPECTS to get people out. When I saw Marte warming up, I asked my girlfriend to get on the batphone and tell Girardi I am on my way as I have a better chance of getting people out than Marte does. Marte is to relief pitching as Dr. Phil is to therapy.

[D_Odds]

The only rational reason to put in Marte was that Girardi took pity on Sciosca removing Lackey too early. Either that, or Girardi's ego didn't want Sciosca to get any credit for being the dumbest manager on the field that night. Girardi had to fight hard for that distinction last night.

And given the way he is not hitting, I would have thrown anyone else on the bench, including Pettitte or Sabathia, to pinch hit for Swisher. The bat boy could make better contact than Nick has.

[What Exit?]

This was another move that puzzled me last night. Clearly Burnett didn't have his stuff last night. Even when he wasnt giving up runs, AJ was putting men on base and being bailed out by defense and shots right at people. Why bring out a guy with nearly 100 pitches of not his best stuff after your hitters have put the team back into the game?



Maybe not.. but at least Joba EXPECTS to get people out. When I saw Marte warming up, I asked my girlfriend to get on the batphone and tell Girardi I am on my way as I have a better chance of getting people out than Marte does. Marte is to relief pitching as Dr. Phil is to therapy.
AJ was at 80 pitches and actually looked good the prior 3 innings. Leaving him in made sense even though he blew it. Marte was not the one to bring in, but it was the pair of lefties that led Joe to do so. His move was pretty standard, I would have greatly prefered Coke, but then I have been big on Coke all year. I think it should have been a strike out specialist though and that means I wanted Robertson in.

[BobLibDem]

The only rational reason to put in Marte was that Girardi took pity on Sciosca removing Lackey too early. Either that, or Girardi's ego didn't want Sciosca to get any credit for being the dumbest manager on the field that night. Girardi had to fight hard for that distinction last night.

And given the way he is not hitting, I would have thrown anyone else on the bench, including Pettitte or Sabathia, to pinch hit for Swisher. The bat boy could make better contact than Nick has.

In fairness to Swisher, Tex wasn't hitting a lick till last night either. Bats have a way of waking up. The Yanks have been doing very well for so many hitters not having stellar postseasons- Swisher, Texiera, Damon, Matsui. Up to now it's been the Jeter and A-Rod show. Damon finally is coming around, even Matsui got a big hit.

[mhendo]

Intentionally walking Arod was a horrible, horrible strategical decision. I wish the Angels had lost on principal because of that.I was rooting for the Angels anyway, but i really wanted the Yankees to lose after their fucking ridiculous delaying tactics to get Rivera in for Chamberlain.

These postseason games take long enough without that sort of bullshit, and i think the league needs to find a way to stop it. Even Bozo Buck and Moron McCarver were commenting that the Yankees should have had Rivera up during the previous at-bat if they knew he was going to be coming in during the inning. If your reliever isn't ready when the next batter steps to the plate, than bad fucking luck; leave the other guy in there and get on with the game.

[Ichbin Dubist]

Regarding the umpiring, I clicked on the game yesterday a few innings in and was immediately greeted by blown call on a not especially close play at first. Weird.

[Locrian]

Phillies in 4. Hands down. :D

[Southern Yankee]

The Yankees won their 40th pennant last night. The Phillies are a very good team and I expect a 7 game series. Thank goodness we have that fair and sensible All-Star Game method of determining home field.....

[BwanaBob]

Phillies in 4. Hands down. :D

Give me a shot of what Locrian's drinking, I want to get fucked up too.

[BwanaBob]

The Yankees won their 40th pennant last night. The Phillies are a very good team and I expect a 7 game series. Thank goodness we have that fair and sensible All-Star Game method of determining home field.....

It's better that the mindless alternating year method.

Seriously, a bigger complaint I have is about the umpiring. I think they need two complete crews plus the 2 extra outfield umps. In the AL park, you use a complete AL crew, and naturally in the NL park, a complete NL crew. After all, if you play the home's league rules (DH), then you ought to have league-biased umpiring too.

[What Exit?]

Another great game. I was up in the top tier on the 1b side. The crowd was loud and really into it.

Yanks played a good game and Joe G made the right moves and the Angels made plenty of mistakes as Mike Scioscia was the one to over manage this time. Pulling out Mathis was silly and using Kazmir was insane. A kid with control issues against the second most patient player in baseball was a bad match. The fact it came down to bunts and Scott pulling 2 Knoblauchs is besides the point.

Putting Rivera in for 6 outs was brilliant and boy was the stadium overjoyed to see it. Joba looked good too in the 7th. The scariest moment of the game was seeing Marte warming up in the 7th.

[BobLibDem]

It's better that the mindless alternating year method.

Seriously, a bigger complaint I have is about the umpiring. I think they need two complete crews plus the 2 extra outfield umps. In the AL park, you use a complete AL crew, and naturally in the NL park, a complete NL crew. After all, if you play the home's league rules (DH), then you ought to have league-biased umpiring too.

There was nothing wrong with alternating years. Now you've got the Phillies penalized for the play of individuals from teams that were out of the race 3 months ago. I think it's silly to take the result of an exhibition game with special rules and use them to determine home field. Face it, the one and only reason to do it that way was to try to pump up the ratings for Fox.

Regarding the umps, I thought there were no more AL and NL umps, all the umps have the MLB logo on their cap and they work both leagues throughout the year.

[What Exit?]

There was nothing wrong with alternating years. Now you've got the Phillies penalized for the play of individuals from teams that were out of the race 3 months ago. I think it's silly to take the result of an exhibition game with special rules and use them to determine home field. Face it, the one and only reason to do it that way was to try to pump up the ratings for Fox.

Regarding the umps, I thought there were no more AL and NL umps, all the umps have the MLB logo on their cap and they work both leagues throughout the year.
You are correct on both counts but on the first part, letting the All Star game determine is no better or worse than the alternating years or the oft suggested give it to the team with the best record. So as the All Star game is the only one that brings in more cash for MLB, why begrudge the choice.

[BobLibDem]

You are correct on both counts but on the first part, letting the All Star game determine is no better or worse than the alternating years or the oft suggested give it to the team with the best record. So as the All Star game is the only one that brings in more cash for MLB, why begrudge the choice.

I personally doubt that the All-Star ratings are any higher because of the WS home field angle. As an American League fan in general and a Yankee fan in particular, even I have to sympathize with the Phillies being penalized by what Cubs or Marlins or Giants may have done back in July. I also think it's a bit biased for the AL in that the NL is forced to take players from 16 teams while the AL only has to pick from 14. That's a slight edge in the roster for the AL since they have more flexibility in the selections.

[Marley23]

The fact it came down to bunts and Scott pulling 2 Knoblauchs is besides the point.
There was only one Knoblauch play. On the Swisher bunt, Kendrick just plain dropped the ball.

The All Star game and alternating years are both stupid methods for determining the home team as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather give it to the team with the best record, although that's also flawed. And in that situation the Yankees would have homefield anyway.

I think we're looking at a good series here, and I still like the Yankees to win it.

[What Exit?]

I personally doubt that the All-Star ratings are any higher because of the WS home field angle. As an American League fan in general and a Yankee fan in particular, even I have to sympathize with the Phillies being penalized by what Cubs or Marlins or Giants may have done back in July. I also think it's a bit biased for the AL in that the NL is forced to take players from 16 teams while the AL only has to pick from 14. That's a slight edge in the roster for the AL since they have more flexibility in the selections.
Fair point, but MLB makes more as Fox is paying more for the boon that Selig gave them. They asked for something to make the game mean something the the Home Field advatage thing is what they got. I have no clue if it helps rating or not. I tend to agree with you that it does not.
There was only one Knoblauch play. On the Swisher bunt, Kendrick just plain dropped the ball.

The All Star game and alternating years are both stupid methods for determining the home team as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather give it to the team with the best record, although that's also flawed. And in that situation the Yankees would have homefield anyway.

I think we're looking at a good series here, and I still like the Yankees to win it.
Thanks Marley, from up in the stands, it looked like a bad throw both times. The second one was epically bad and looked like a eephus ball but the first I did not realize was on Kendrik.

No method for homefield is perfect, I don't think the All Star game is really worse than the other two methods. I like the best record get homefield as in theory it should also penalize a lucky run of a Wild Card team a little bit. But I do think too much is made of how homefield is determined.

[RickJay]

I personally doubt that the All-Star ratings are any higher because of the WS home field angle. As an American League fan in general and a Yankee fan in particular, even I have to sympathize with the Phillies being penalized by what Cubs or Marlins or Giants may have done back in July. I also think it's a bit biased for the AL in that the NL is forced to take players from 16 teams while the AL only has to pick from 14. That's a slight edge in the roster for the AL since they have more flexibility in the selections.
Were we on the old system, the Phillies would have home field advantage because it would be the NL's turn this year. (After the strike the NL held the advantage in odd-numbered years, AL in even. Prior to that it was the opposite; not having a World Series in 1994 reversed it.) But how is that any more fair? It's purely arbitrary, from the perspective of the teams involved, either way. Basing it on the result of the All-Star Game isn't any LESS fair than basing it on whether it's an odd or even-numbered year.

You say the Phillies are being "penalized" for how players from other teams played in July, but the other way the Yankees would be "penalized" out of sheer random chance.

As it stands there's no "fair" way to assign home field advantage; you're either using a system that has nothing to do with the teams involved (All-Star game or alternating years) or else a system that may have very little to do with the teams involved (W-L record, which isn't necessarily reflective of relative quality when the teams play in different leagues and divisions.) W-L record is a tny bit fairer but it's also more logistically difficult.

[mhendo]

I have no clue if it helps rating or not. I tend to agree with you that it does not. Here are the viewership and ratings figures (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/asgtv.shtml) for All-Star Games going back to 1967.

The home-field advantage rule started in 2003. Doesn't look like it's helped ratings at all, really.

[RickJay]

Here are the viewership and ratings figures (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/asgtv.shtml) for All-Star Games going back to 1967.

The home-field advantage rule started in 2003. Doesn't look like it's helped ratings at all, really.
In fairness, ratings have held pretty steady since then, whereas they'd been in free fall beforehand. Staying the same is better than decline.

That might not have anything to do with the home field advantage thing, tho.

[mhendo]

In fairness, ratings have held pretty steady since then, whereas they'd been in free fall beforehand. Staying the same is better than decline.

That might not have anything to do with the home field advantage thing, tho.Yep, both of those things are true. It could be that the change to the AS game has helped the ratings hold steady, or it could simply be that there are about 10 million households in America who will watch baseball no matter what.

[Southern Yankee]

The Phillies are going with Pedro in Game 2. Risky? Brilliant? I know he had that a good start against LA, but to me it seems liek they'd hope to get a good game out of him in Game 3, not Game 2. Are they less confident in Hamels?

[BobLibDem]

I just want to see Rivera hit. Dare we hope for 2 RBIs in one year?

[Marley23]

Are they less confident in Hamels?
Hamels pitches better in Philadelphia, so they're saving him for a home start.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Yeah, but I do think Manuel's afraid of Hamels' mindset in New York. Not just because of Hamels qua Hamels, but because I think Manuel knows that Hamels is probably going to give up a couple of longballs, and he wants that to happen here in Philly. The Phillies will probably hit just as well at Yankee Stadium, but the effect of a Jeter or an A-Rod homer in the early innings (which Hamels is very susceptible to; when he makes mistakes he makes them with the fastball or the changeup high in the zone) is a lot more dangerous in New York.

Meanwhile, with Pedro, I think he's just as likely or more likely to pitch well in a hostile environment than at home. It's a tough call, but I think Manuel usually has a pretty good idea what he's doing when he makes these decisions.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think it's an experience thing. Pedro is not going to be fazed by either the moment (pitching in he WS) or by the hostile fans.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

It seems unlikely that pitching in the World Series is going to unduly terrify Cole Hamels at this point.

[RickJay]

It seems unlikely that pitching in the World Series is going to unduly terrify Cole Hamels at this point.
Yeah, it does seem a little strange to say that they're bumping last year's World Series MVP because he's nervous about pitching in the World Series.

However, he did pitch much better in Philadelphia.

[gonzomax]

I knew a guy who was a .220 lifetime hitter ,but a very solid glove. First play in the World Series he dropped a pop up. There is a lot of nerves in the big one.

[Munch]

A lot of debate going on right now between using Molina more over Posada. My hatred of all things Yankee over the years has blinded me to the fact that Posada is really really good (or, at least, was really really good during his career). What's the peanut gallery think - Posada for HOF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/posadjo01.shtml)? That's pretty fantastic plate discipline for a catcher.

[Southern Yankee]

I'm a die hard Yankee fan, and I think he falls short. Defensively, he's never been great, and his offense, while very good, isn't Piazza-esque enough to make up for the average D. Put him in the Hall of Very Good.

[ElvisL1ves]

I think it's an experience thing. Pedro is not going to be fazed by either the moment (pitching in he WS) or by the hostile fans.And he's heard the "Who's your daddy?" chants there enough in his time that they won't get to him.

He showed already that he can still do it, if not for a full season anymore. Go Pedro.

[Southern Yankee]

Pedro is 6 - 2 lifetime in the postseason. But those 2 losses came from the Yankees, against 1 win. All of those games, however, were long enough ago as to not mean anything this year. It's not the crowd he has to worry about.

[What Exit?]

A lot of debate going on right now between using Molina more over Posada. My hatred of all things Yankee over the years has blinded me to the fact that Posada is really really good (or, at least, was really really good during his career). What's the peanut gallery think - Posada for HOF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/posadjo01.shtml)? That's pretty fantastic plate discipline for a catcher.
He is very good and his number will almost surely be retired by the Yanks, but he is not really a Hall of Famer. His defense has always been a average and while his offense is near the best for catchers I don't think it was quite enough to get in the way Piazza will.
I'm a die hard Yankee fan, and I think he falls short. Defensively, he's never been great, and his offense, while very good, isn't Piazza-esque enough to make up for the average D. Put him in the Hall of Very Good.
Agreed.
And he's heard the "Who's your daddy?" chants there enough in his time that they won't get to him.

He showed already that he can still do it, if not for a full season anymore. Go Pedro.
Disagree, he will probably not do well against the Yanks in the Bronx. The Yanks will be patient and get him out before the 6th is over.
Pedro is 6 - 2 lifetime in the postseason. But those 2 losses came from the Yankees, against 1 win. All of those games, however, were long enough ago as to not mean anything this year. It's not the crowd he has to worry about.
Exactly.

[E-Sabbath]

This game really is the Yankees vs the Yankees. Both teams play in similar ways. Going to be a long hard fight. Or a lucky short one.

From this game, though, looks like a long hard one.

[gonzomax]

Sabermetric freaks, there is one huge stat to remember. Pitching shuts down hitting.

[treis]

How lucky is MLB that the Rockies aren't in the Series this year? A foot of snow on the ground in Denver and it looks like they are getting more.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

That's actually not a stat. Platitude, you were looking for, maybe? Bromide? Silly nonsense?

[Ichbin Dubist]

Pitching shuts down hitting.

And vice-versa.

[Rysto]

Last Sunday the Leafs' Nikolai Kulemin was given a penalty for abuse of officials after telling them, "You're worse than baseball umpires!".

The penalty was well-deserved. There are some lines you just don't cross.

[mhendo]

That's actually not a stat. Platitude, you were looking for, maybe? Bromide? Silly nonsense?Yeah?

Sabermetric freak! Here's another stat for ya: pine tar is sticky. Or how about this one: Speed never slumps!

Take that to your mother's basement.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Dare I call the Phillies sweep now?

[Mister Rik]

Schweet!


One complaint about this postseason's Yankees games: the ESPN radio announcer (the one who isn't Joe Morgan) has the most irritating way of saying "Rodriguez". He doesn't say "Rodriguez", he says "Ur-rodriguez". It's weird, because he doesn't say "Jimmy Ur-rollins". It's as if he's trying to do the Spanish rolled R, but isn't actually physically able to do it.

[gonzomax]

And vice-versa.

Nope. The All Star game shows it. The lineups are loaded with the best hitters in the game . But it usually is a low scoring game. The all star pitchers shut them down. If hitting was dominant the games would have scores in the teens.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Take that to your mother's basement.

Joke's on you -- I never left!

Too bad the Yankees don't have any dominant pitching.

[Mr Buttons]

Too bad the Yankees don't have any dominant pitching.

C.C. Sabathia?

I mean come on, before tonight's game he and Cliff Lee were the standouts in pitching in the post season. We Philly fans were freaking out much more about our bullpen one month ago than any of you Yankees are freaking out now.

[mhendo]

Nope. The All Star game shows it. The lineups are loaded with the best hitters in the game . But it usually is a low scoring game. The all star pitchers shut them down. If hitting was dominant the games would have scores in the teens.I don't even know where to start with this. It demonstrates such a poor understanding of baseball, and of the relationship between pitching and hitting, that i don't think it's even amenable to correction.

Mr Buttons, i think Jimmy Chitwood was being ironic.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

I live in Philadelphia. And yeah, I was being sarcastic.

[Mr Buttons]

I live in Philadelphia. And yeah, I was being sarcastic.

My apologies, I've been fighting off Yankee fans on boards at a 4:1 Yankee-to-Philly ratio. Plus I just got home from the bar, looking to poke Yankee fans in the eye. I misjudged thee and offer up my sincerest of apologies. :)

[pricciar]

What a great game! Cliff Lee was incredible. The fielding plays were really funny. I felt a little bad for him that he wasn't able to grab the shutout. But, that's just greedy.

I am high on Pedro. Clearly, the Yankee lineup is several magnitudes more powerful than the lineup the Dodgers brought out and this isn't a pitcher's ballpark. So, I can't expect 7 shut out innings. But, I do think(hope) he is capable of giving 6 or 7 innings and holding them under 4 runs. And, I hope the Mr. Hyde Burnett shows up.

This is a tough series for the Phillies. I am not sure they can take it. But, I sure will be happy if they do!

I am a little bit disappointed in the Yankee crowd. I can kind of sort of understand the Dodger fans leaving; that traffic is murder. I was really surprised to see Yankee Stadium empty out in the late innings with the Phils up by 4. I usually think of the Yankee fans as diehards like the Phillies fans - especially with a team that has the offensive firepower that this Yankees team has. But, I guess those empty seats I could see were filled up by corporate weenies earlier and that is not a proper representation of the true Yankee fan.

Oh yeah. And, Chase Utley really is the man.

I helped a friend with her computer in South Philly tonight. After the win I could hear car honks and yells coming from Broad Street. That was pretty fun.

[Locrian]

Dare I call the Phillies sweep now?

I already bought my brooo-ooom!

Only thing that bugs me is, if the Phillies DO sweep, the headline won't be saying anything about the Phillies winning, it'll be something along the lines of "Yankees Blow It!" or "Yankees Get Swept By Some Other Team That Wears Red!"

Probably not a sweep, but when the Phils take the trophy, A-Rod will look like a 1950s Hollywood starlet with gobs of mascara running down his face. :D

[Munch]

Sabermetric freaks, there is one huge stat to remember. Pitching shuts down hitting.

While that's not really a stat, I don't think you'll find any sabermetric freaks that would disagree with this.

[RickJay]

Cliff Lee was amazing.

Jesus, though, read the ESPN article. It's not "Cliff Lee is really amazing this postseason," it's all "OMG, he beat the YANKEES! They went into YANKEE STADIUM and won! Against the YANKEES! Did you hear us? The Phillies beat the YANKEES in YANKEE STADIUM!"

You'd think no visiting team had ever won a game in Yankee Stadium, or that the Phillies didn't happen to be the defending champions, or that Yankee Stadium had a differently configured basball diamond from all the other ballparks or something. Jesus.

I find it bizarre that professional sports journalists are expressing amazement that professional athletes wouldn't be intimidated by the prospect of playing a road game.

[D_Odds]

I already bought my brooo-ooom!

Only thing that bugs me is, if the Phillies DO sweep, the headline won't be saying anything about the Phillies winning, it'll be something along the lines of "Yankees Blow It!" or "Yankees Get Swept By Some Other Team That Wears Red!"

Probably not a sweep, but when the Phils take the trophy, A-Rod will look like a 1950s Hollywood starlet with gobs of mascara running down his face. :D
I guess that depends on which city you are near. I do think that national journalists tend to play up the Yankees, but the Yankees have been lights out since the All-Star break.

Chase Utley will forevermore be known as Chase "Fucking" Utley (though occassionally, Fucking Chase Utley may be substituted).

[Paintcharge]

Schweet!


One complaint about this postseason's Yankees games: the ESPN radio announcer (the one who isn't Joe Morgan) has the most irritating way of saying "Rodriguez". He doesn't say "Rodriguez", he says "Ur-rodriguez". It's weird, because he doesn't say "Jimmy Ur-rollins". It's as if he's trying to do the Spanish rolled R, but isn't actually physically able to do it.

That can't possibly be your only complaint about Jon Miller. I can't stand any of his delivery. He's got this stupid sounds surprised by every single play, statistic, boring old story from Joe Morgan.

Still better than Buck Martinez calling that guy from the Red Sox David OR-tiz.

[Crawlspace]

I think it's time for Swisher to take a seat for a game. The only reason he is starting over Gardner is for his hitting, but if he is going to flail around at the plate I'd rather have a better defensive outfield and someone with game changing speed in the lineup. I also think it's time to recognize that Burnett can turn in to Mr. Hyde no matter who is behind the plate and start Posada.

Nope. The All Star game shows it. The lineups are loaded with the best hitters in the game . But it usually is a low scoring game. The all star pitchers shut them down. If hitting was dominant the games would have scores in the teens.This is the second time you've said this in as many months and it's still not true. First of all, if anything, the All-Star game has been moderately high scoring for about 20 years. Second, the best hitters in the game have to go up against the best pitchers in the game who are usually only in for an inning. If good pitching truly shuts down good hitting you'd expect the All-Star game to be much lower scoring than it has proven to be.

[ElvisL1ves]

"OMG, he beat the YANKEES! They went into YANKEE STADIUM and won! Against the YANKEES! Did you hear us? The Phillies beat the YANKEES in YANKEE STADIUM!"

:p
"Mystique and Aura? Those are dancers at a nightclub." - Curt Schilling


Tonight could be Pedro's last game ever. There'd be no better way for him to go out than with another ring. I'll be pulling for him.

[Hampshire]

This just in:
Yankees to acquire Cliff Lee in multi-million dollar deal to use in game #3

[Southern Yankee]

Let's settle down with the sweep talk. It's only 1 game. Cliff Lee was amazing last night. He made the Yankee hitters (other than Jeter) look terrible. But they aren't terrible. They'll be heard from this series. It was a huge win for the Phillies and it puts a lot of pressure on the Yanks, but it's far from over. The biggest concern I have is Burnett tonight. Will he be "Good AJ" or "Bad AJ"? You never know with him.

[Bootis]

I was extremely disappointed with the TV coverage last night- The split screens that showed us a view of the pitch, and also a view of what Derek Jeter was doing during that pitch were novel, and solved the age old problem with televised baseball- how do you show what Derek Jeter is doing, but still see the pitches? Inexplicably, they only showed us this view on like 30% of the pitches, leaving us to only guess what Derek Jeter might have been doing the majority of the pitches!

[gonzomax]

Losing team scores the last few All Star games.
3
4
2
5
4
7
1
3
1
8
1
0
2
I suppose you don't find that as shutting down hitting.

[Tom Scud]

Losing team scores the last few All Star games.
8
7
5
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
1
1
0

I suppose you don't find that as shutting down hitting.

Median of 3. I have no idea how that compares to all baseball games.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Losing team scores the last few All Star games.

...

I suppose you don't find that as shutting down hitting.

Edited by me.

Non-rhetorical question: have you ever taken a statistics course? I don't mean to presume or imply anything.

[ElvisL1ves]

Inexplicably, they only showed us this view on like 30% of the pitches, leaving us to only guess what Derek Jeter might have been doing the majority of the pitches!You may be the only person on this board who wants to hear even MORE of McCarver's yammering.

[RickJay]

Losing team scores the last few All Star games.
3
4
2
5
4
7
1
3
1
8
1
0
2
I suppose you don't find that as shutting down hitting.
Actually, no. That's about three runs per game, which is a perfectly normal score for the losing team in a major league ballgame.

If you'd think for just five seconds, the relevant statistic is runs scored by BOTH teams in the All-Star game. And in the last 20 All-Star games, the average runs scored per game is 9.4 - perfectly normal.

[Tom Scud]

I was extremely disappointed with the TV coverage last night- The split screens that showed us a view of the pitch, and also a view of what Derek Jeter was doing during that pitch were novel, and solved the age old problem with televised baseball- how do you show what Derek Jeter is doing, but still see the pitches? Inexplicably, they only showed us this view on like 30% of the pitches, leaving us to only guess what Derek Jeter might have been doing the majority of the pitches!

Soon, they will deploy this technology to cover baseball games not featuring the Yankees.

"And let's see; here's Jeter's salmon appetizer arriving... a diving catch!"

[Hawkeyeop]

Winning all star game scores
4
4
5
7
3
9
7
7*
4
6
4
13
3
6
3
8
9
13

Goes to show good hitting dominates good pitching.

[Munch]

Goes to show good hitting dominates good pitching.

Channelling gonzo: "But..but... If the winning team's pitching wasn't good, they'd have given up more!"

*froths*

[ElvisL1ves]

As if you consistently see good pitching in the All-Star game anyway, and not just guys working on their offdays, or trying to use the break to get some rest too. Some crank it up to try to show off, some recognize their responsibilities to their teams not to.

You can't tell shit from an exhibition game, folks.

[mhendo]

While that's not really a stat, I don't think you'll find any sabermetric freaks that would disagree with this.Right, which is why gonzo's "stat" is, as Jimmy Chitwood observed earlier, little more than a silly bromide or a platitude. Or, really, simply a description of the game of baseball.

One of the worst starting pitchers in the Major Leagues this year was Manny Parra. Parra started 27 games, and finished with an ERA of 6.36 and a WHIP of 1.83. His VORP, according to Baseball Prospectus, was -23.9!

Actually, Chien-Ming Wang was probably worse, managing a VORP of -18.7 in only 12 starts, with an ERA of 9.64 and a WHIP of about 2.7.

And yet, if you look at the batting average against these pitchers, you see that for Parra it was .306, and for Wang it was .365. So, even with these incredibly awful pitchers on the mound, the hitters who faced them still only got a hit about 30-35 percent of the time.

The fact is that, if you consider every plate appearance as a competition between a hitter and a pitcher, with the winner determined by whether an out or a hit is recorded (let's leave walks aside for the purpose of this exercise), then hitters fail more than they succeed in the game of baseball. No-one has hit .400 in over half a century, meaning that every single one of the very best hitters of the past 50+ years have failed to hit on more than 60 percent of their at-bats.

The very nature of the game of baseball--with a round bat, a 90o arc of in-play area, nine fielders with incredible skills and large gloves, and a pitcher hurling a small round ball at 80+ miles an hour--means that hitters will fail more often than they succeed.

To say that "Pitching shuts down hitting" is literally nothing more than a truism, a simple description of the game itself. And to suggest that this tells us anything special about the playoffs, or about the All-Star Game, is simply silly. The only real relevance the issue might have in the playoffs is that, due to the nature of the schedule, with off days between cities, teams can use their top three starting pitchers for a higher proportion of their games than is the case in the regular season. As a general rule, pitching doesn't shut down hitting any more in the postseason than in the regular season; it's just that the very best pitchers from each team take the mound more often in October.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

And on a more fundamental level, it's just not at all rational to think along those lines, because each of "pitching" and "hitting" is literally defined to the exclusion of the other. It's zero-sum, always; the two are in direct opposition to each other. Pitching can't dominate hitting as a general principle any more than heat can dominate cold.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

... because as everybody knows, when the chips are down, cold is the energy-related state you want with the ball in its hands.

[gonzomax]

You will note that before the Series started ,our stat freaks were declaring the hitting juggernaut the Yankees put together as unbeatable. Their great hitting was proclaimed. But as usual pitching decides the games. Sure that is not a stat. But it trumps the offensive stats. If Lee pitches 3 games the Yankees are in a world of hurt.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Who do you think would win in a fight, triumph or victory? I'm just brainstorming here.

[RickJay]

You will note that before the Series started ,our stat freaks were declaring the hitting juggernaut the Yankees put together as unbeatable.
Name one of these people.

[Southern Yankee]

I have to hand it to Pedro, that was a better performance than I expected. He was really pitching tonight. Burnett's been better and I know Girardi is going to take him out to start the 8th, which drives me fucking crazy. He's shown no signs of getting tired, and he's been really good. Let him pitch! As good as Mo is, you have no idea what kind of stuff he has tonight. Stay with the guy that's already pitching great, dammit.

[Xema]

As good as Mo is, you have no idea what kind of stuff he has tonight.
I think you have a pretty good idea most nights.


Yanks win, but I'm not sure A-Rod is in the best of moods.

[pricciar]

Ugh! Tough game. They gave Mo a run for his money but he was his usual awesome self.

The Phillies keep wasting these Pedro gems! The good Burnett showed up tonight and did a better job than Pedro. Great game by both teams. A couple of miscues by the umps, but they mostly did a good job. Fun game to watch - even if it was heartbreaking.

Let's hope the good Hamels can show up on Sunday. I think he has been real close to his good self all year. We'll see how he does in game 3. Petite is awesome, so it will be rough for sure!

[VarlosZ]

6-out save in Game 2? How much of that had to do with the top of the order being up in the 8th? And how many of those do the Yankees expect to get out of Rivera in this series?

[Marley23]

I'm always iffy on the six-out saves, but the season was on the line. So I'll support Girardi on that decision. I was somewhere between angry and terrified when I saw Aceves warming up during the bottom of the eighth, but I assume he only would have come in if they'd opened up a 9-1 lead. (What I don't get is, why Hairston? Gardner's been playing more often and he's been used frequently as a pinch runner and defensive replacement, so why not just go with him?)

Great game from Burnett. I was really nervous about him going in because he's had a penchant for disastrous innings that undo otherwise strong starts. Didn't happen tonight. Pedro was also very good, but Burnett was better and the Yankees did just enough. Goes without saying they need to get at least one game in Philadelphia, but I feel better about their chances after seeing Teixeira hit that home run.

[mhendo]

I'm amazed that a television network that forks out somewhere in the neighborhood of half a billion dollars a year for the rights to show baseball apparently cannot afford a fucking tilde.

The guy's name is not Raul Ibanez, it's Raúl Ibáñez.

Jesus Christ. Latino players make up somewhere around 30 percent of the Major Leagues, with plenty of them having accent marks in their names, and MLB's main television partner can't even be bothered to display their names correctly on the screen. It's pretty fucking pathetic, in my opinion.

[Southern Yankee]

Let's hope the good Hamels can show up on Sunday.

Yeah, I'd love for him to show up on Sunday! :D

[DSYoungEsq]

I'm amazed that a television network that forks out somewhere in the neighborhood of half a billion dollars a year for the rights to show baseball apparently cannot afford a fucking tilde.

The guy's name is not Raul Ibanez, it's Raúl Ibáñez.

Jesus Christ. Latino players make up somewhere around 30 percent of the Major Leagues, with plenty of them having accent marks in their names, and MLB's main television partner can't even be bothered to display their names correctly on the screen. It's pretty fucking pathetic, in my opinion.

While it is true that their name, en Español may use diacritical marks, in English, we don't use them. These people, as students in our schools, as owners of licenses in our country, etc., are quite used to having their names spelled out without the use of an enye, just as the Russian hockey players in the NHL don't see their names spelled with Cyrillic characters, nor do the Swedish ones have obscure characters like ø used.

Or do you refer to the capital of Italy as Roma, and worry about pronouncing the capital of the PRC correctly? :dubious:

[Munch]

You will note that before the Series started ,our stat freaks were declaring the hitting juggernaut the Yankees put together as unbeatable.
No - no one did any such thing. The thread you're referring to had a bunch of people mention how the Yankees have the best offense (they do), and that they had the most wins. You remember wins, right? It's the stat you get a giant boner for every time you discuss pitchers, right?

So which is it gonzo - if the stat you feel that best measures pitchers is wins, and the Yankees had the most wins, then who has the best pitching? Think carefully, because your answer to this will subsequently destroy one of the ridiculous beliefs you hold - choose wisely.

[BobLibDem]

6-out save in Game 2? How much of that had to do with the top of the order being up in the 8th? And how many of those do the Yankees expect to get out of Rivera in this series?

I think it had a lot to do with the batters due up in the 8th. The travel day will help and that probably played into it too. It would have been nice to blow the game open so wide in the 7th that even Martee couldn't blow it but no such luck. I thought Jeter was a fool for bunting with 2 strikes, why take the bat out of one of the few guys who is reasonably hot just so the cold hitters behind you can leave runners on base?

[RickJay]

Burnett's been better and I know Girardi is going to take him out to start the 8th, which drives me fucking crazy. He's shown no signs of getting tired, and he's been really good. Let him pitch! As good as Mo is, you have no idea what kind of stuff he has tonight. Stay with the guy that's already pitching great, dammit.
I gotta disagree. Burnett had thrown 108 pitches so it's not like his arm was fresh. "He's pitching fine, just leave him in" is often what you hear just before a guy gives up a few runs.

New York needed to win that game, and when the chips are down you want the best possible pitcher on the mound. At that moment, the best pitcher wearing a Yankee uniform was - as it usually is - Mariano Rivera. If you absolutely, positively want to guarantee one or two innings' worth of outs there has never in baseball history been a better guy to have on the mound. He's the greatest relief pitcher who ever lived; what better time to call upon him than when you'd got to win a close game and you have a day off tomorrow anyway?

I think it had a lot to do with the batters due up in the 8th. The travel day will help and that probably played into it too. It would have been nice to blow the game open so wide in the 7th that even Martee couldn't blow it but no such luck. I thought Jeter was a fool for bunting with 2 strikes, why take the bat out of one of the few guys who is reasonably hot just so the cold hitters behind you can leave runners on base?
I don't understand why people are so terrified of Marte. He's been pitching well. Prior to this year he'd almost always pitched well. He's a fine pitcher.

[Colibri]

While it is true that their name, en Español may use diacritical marks, in English, we don't use them. These people, as students in our schools, as owners of licenses in our country, etc., are quite used to having their names spelled out without the use of an enye, just as the Russian hockey players in the NHL don't see their names spelled with Cyrillic characters, nor do the Swedish ones have obscure characters like ø used.

Or do you refer to the capital of Italy as Roma, and worry about pronouncing the capital of the PRC correctly? :dubious:

Quite true. In English, Ibanez's name is correctly spelled without the diacritical marks. How often do you see Panama spelled Panamá on TV or in English publications? But that's the way it's spelled in Spanish.

I just wish the Spanish-language announcers here would stop mispronouncing Phil Hughes as Phil Huge. :)

[Southern Yankee]

I gotta disagree. Burnett had thrown 108 pitches so it's not like his arm was fresh. "He's pitching fine, just leave him in" is often what you hear just before a guy gives up a few runs.

New York needed to win that game, and when the chips are down you want the best possible pitcher on the mound. At that moment, the best pitcher wearing a Yankee uniform was - as it usually is - Mariano Rivera. If you absolutely, positively want to guarantee one or two innings' worth of outs there has never in baseball history been a better guy to have on the mound. He's the greatest relief pitcher who ever lived; what better time to call upon him than when you'd got to win a close game and you have a day off tomorrow anyway?


In the 7th, Burnett faced 3 hitters. Ibanez and Stairs both struck out looking, and Feliz grounded out to Jeter. He was dealing, and showing no signs of weakening. If you want to have Mo up and ready, I totally agree, but I see no reason not to let the guy with the hot hand start the 8th.

[BobLibDem]

In the 7th, Burnett faced 3 hitters. Ibanez and Stairs both struck out looking, and Feliz grounded out to Jeter. He was dealing, and showing no signs of weakening. If you want to have Mo up and ready, I totally agree, but I see no reason not to let the guy with the hot hand start the 8th.

I agree. Have Rivera warmed up. Tell Burnett, first guy gets on, you're done.

[gonzomax]

No - no one did any such thing. The thread you're referring to had a bunch of people mention how the Yankees have the best offense (they do), and that they had the most wins. You remember wins, right? It's the stat you get a giant boner for every time you discuss pitchers, right?

So which is it gonzo - if the stat you feel that best measures pitchers is wins, and the Yankees had the most wins, then who has the best pitching? Think carefully, because your answer to this will subsequently destroy one of the ridiculous beliefs you hold - choose wisely.

The powerful hitting is important during the season. They feast on the bad pitchers they face , piling up victories and scoring a lot of runs. They do not do well against the good pitchers.
The Tigers had a lot of trouble scoring this year. They had a pretty good season because they could pitch. If they could have piled victories up against the bad pitchers and bad teams they would have had a far better record. That is where hitting is important.
There are lots of telling stats for pitchers. Do not invent your own arguments .

[Munch]

There are lots of telling stats for pitchers.

Name three. "Number of times facing good teams" is disqualified for this portion of the thread.

[Hawkeyeop]

Name three. "Number of times facing good teams" is disqualified for this portion of the thread.

average rosen bag toss height

glare intensity

balks allowed in the fifth inning on Tuesday afternoons when facing a batter who's name begin with a vowel other than I.

Or were you not talking to me

[gonzomax]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching Anybody spot the trend?

[Tom Scud]

Team batting:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/OPS/order/true

Wow. I guess good hitting DOES beat good pitching.

[Munch]

Hawkeyeop, if I was talking to you, I'd make you come up with 12 more! :)

[Hawkeyeop]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching Anybody spot the trend?

I think Gonzo is on to something. The way the Phillies starters have completely shut down Utley, Howard, Werth and Ibanez has been quite impressive. And the Yankees pitching has given a single run to the Yankees despite them having stars at nearly every position.

[ElvisL1ves]

In the 7th, Burnett faced 3 hitters. Ibanez and Stairs both struck out looking, and Feliz grounded out to Jeter. He was dealing, and showing no signs of weakening. If you want to have Mo up and ready, I totally agree, but I see no reason not to let the guy with the hot hand start the 8th.
A starter who has already been told it's his last inning, at least probably, has a tendency to dig deep and go after batters with a few more MPH on his heater. That gets guys out in that inning but leaves him unable to go further.

Seeing Pedro should have reminded you of that. ;)

[DSYoungEsq]

<grumble grumble> Cubs pitchers would undoubtedly give up runs to Cub hitters if we looked closely enough... :mad:

[RickJay]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching Anybody spot the trend?
Teams that score more runs than the other team tend to win more games?

I'd always suspected that.

[Hawkeyeop]

Teams that score more runs than the other team tend to win more games?

I'd always suspected that.

Tell that to the 1960 Yankees.

[mhendo]

Quite true. In English, Ibanez's name is correctly spelled without the diacritical marks. How often do you see Panama spelled Panamá on TV or in English publications? But that's the way it's spelled in Spanish.See, i think there's an important difference here; it's a distinction in the effect of the diacritical mark.

The accent in Panama/á really only indicates emphasis; it tells you where to place the rising inflection of your voice when speaking the word. The eñe, on the other hand, fundamentally changes the way the word is pronounced, and actually constitutes a distinct letter of the Spanish alphabet.

Saying ee-ban-ez is quite different from ee-ban-yez, and it's the tilde that tells us about that difference. If there were no chance of confusion, i'd be less concerned. But there are people with the last name Ibanez, and people with the last name Ibañez; the two are not the same, and i think it's useful to make the distinction.

It's clear i've lost this battle before i've begun. If FOX isn't already doing it, they're unlikely to change anyway.

[Southern Yankee]

A starter who has already been told it's his last inning, at least probably, has a tendency to dig deep and go after batters with a few more MPH on his heater. That gets guys out in that inning but leaves him unable to go further.

Seeing Pedro should have reminded you of that. ;)

Nah, Burnett was pretty steady all game. I didn't notice any extra intensity in that last inning. His pitch counts in innings 5 - 7 were 12, 11, 10 respectively.

[mhendo]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching Anybody spot the trend?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting

Anybody spot the trend?

Or what about this one?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/OPS/order/true

Or this?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/homeRuns/order/true

Or this?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/totalBases/order/true

[Munch]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting

Anybody spot the trend?

Or what about this one?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/OPS/order/true

Or this?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/homeRuns/order/true

Or this?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/totalBases/order/true

What's sad is that gonzo is now going to believe none of us think pitching is valuable or a huge part of the game as well. Not that he ever did...

[Mister Rik]

Ibanez: I know, right? What is he, a guitar (http://ibanez.com/Splash.aspx)? :D

OTOH, Ibáñez, like Alex Rodriguez, is American born and raised. I have a hard time lumping either of them into the group of "Latin players", a tag which seems to me should apply only to players who are actually from Latin American countries. I mean, I never hear Oakland A's catcher Kurt Suzuki (born in Hawaii) being lumped in with Japanese players.

ETA: Not to mention all the "black" players who would be considered "black" players were it not for the fact that they're from Latin American countries.

[Marley23]

McCarver and Buck both pronounced the name correctly as Ibáñez every time I noticed. But I wasn't keeping track.

Game three is Pettitte vs. Hamels. What are the chances on Lee going in game four? I'm sure Sabathia will pitch that one and I don't really think Philly will ask Blanton or Park to start.

[Colibri]

See, i think there's an important difference here; it's a distinction in the effect of the diacritical mark.

The accent in Panama/á really only indicates emphasis; it tells you where to place the rising inflection of your voice when speaking the word. The eñe, on the other hand, fundamentally changes the way the word is pronounced, and actually constitutes a distinct letter of the Spanish alphabet.

Saying ee-ban-ez is quite different from ee-ban-yez, and it's the tilde that tells us about that difference. If there were no chance of confusion, i'd be less concerned. But there are people with the last name Ibanez, and people with the last name Ibañez; the two are not the same, and i think it's useful to make the distinction.

It's clear i've lost this battle before i've begun. If FOX isn't already doing it, they're unlikely to change anyway.

Since when does English make an effort to spell foreign names the way they are pronounced? It used to be fairly common to see French François spelled with the cedilla in English, but I usually just see it as Francois now.

An alternative way to spell Ibáñez in English without the tilde would be Ibanyez, just as we spell cañon as canyon. However, English is not too prone to deal with diacriticals from other languages in this way, even if we sometimes spell German Müller as Mueller.

[mhendo]

McCarver and Buck both pronounced the name correctly as Ibáñez every time I noticed. But I wasn't keeping track..Yeah, the commentators get it right. And it's spelled Ibáñez on the back of his uniform.
Since when does English make an effort to spell foreign names the way they are pronounced? It used to be fairly common to see French François spelled with the cedilla in English, but I usually just see it as Francois now.

An alternative way to spell Ibáñez in English without the tilde would be Ibanyez, just as we spell cañon as canyon. However, English is not too prone to deal with diacriticals from other languages in this way, even if we sometimes spell German Müller as Mueller.I don't dispute a word of this. I'm not arguing "This is how it is." I'm arguing "This is how it should be." English has become even more of a default global language since the advent of the internet, and i think that respecting the accent marks of other languages, especially when they actually help us with pronunciation, is a small and fairly simple step.

Anyway, i've probably hijacked the thread enough with this language discussion. I think we should go back to talking about how hitting shuts down pitching (or was it the other way round?).

[mhendo]

One more quick hijack:Ibanez: I know, right? What is he, a guitar (http://ibanez.com/Splash.aspx)? :D

OTOH, Ibáñez, like Alex Rodriguez, is American born and raised. I have a hard time lumping either of them into the group of "Latin players", a tag which seems to me should apply only to players who are actually from Latin American countries. I mean, I never hear Oakland A's catcher Kurt Suzuki (born in Hawaii) being lumped in with Japanese players.

ETA: Not to mention all the "black" players who would be considered "black" players were it not for the fact that they're from Latin American countries.My comment on Latin players was simply designed to observe that, given how many Hispanic names there are in baseball, and how many players actually come from Mexico and Central and South America, i think it would be good if they were spelled with the accent marks. Whether Ibáñez was born in Cleveland or Cuba, Dayton or the Dominican Republic, doesn't really change my argument.

[DSYoungEsq]

Well, yes it does. If Ibanez is born in America, his name is not Ibáñez, but Ibanez. That's what will be on his birth record, and that's his official name. The fact that it would be written Ibáñez in Spanish is irrelevant.

Or, as I pointed out, do you insist that we spell Swedish/Norse/Danish names using the various Scandinavian characters? And what do you want us to do about Poles or Hungarians or Serbs? Greeks? Russians? Chinese? Japanese? etc., etc., etc.

Taken to a logical conclusion, it gets a bit difficult to contemplate, don't you think?


Back on topic: I thought it was good running trumps good fielding. The heck with hitting and pitching; you do one and the other follows naturally. :D

[ElvisL1ves]

But good throwing beats good running.

[Marley23]

And good stretching beats good scratching.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Game three is Pettitte vs. Hamels. What are the chances on Lee going in game four? I'm sure Sabathia will pitch that one and I don't really think Philly will ask Blanton or Park to start.

Definitely not Park, no. I believe that Manuel would be OK with sending Blanton out there, though. If it's 2-1 Yankees at that point I think there's a good chance you'd see Lee.

[Marley23]

Blanton it is, says Manuel. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/10/30/phillies.blanton.ap/index.html)

[gonzomax]

What's sad is that gonzo is now going to believe none of us think pitching is valuable or a huge part of the game as well. Not that he ever did...

That was never the claim. Don't argue with yourself. I just said the people who just loved the Yankee offense and touted all their great numbers were missing the point. The Yankee offense has not been the big factor in the series. Pitching shuts down hitting. that is where series are won and lost. Hitting has been of little consequence.

[mhendo]

That was never the claim. Don't argue with yourself. I just said the people who just loved the Yankee offense and touted all their great numbers were missing the point.No, you didn't.

This is what you said:You will note that before the Series started ,our stat freaks were declaring the hitting juggernaut the Yankees put together as unbeatable. RickJay has already asked you to provide evidence that anyone said this, and i now repeat the call: show us one single person who said that the Yankees would be unbeatable. Put up, or shut up.
The Yankee offense has not been the big factor in the series. Pitching shuts down hitting. that is where series are won and lost. Hitting has been of little consequence.You're right, those home runs hit by Chase Utley were completely irrelevant to the Game 1 outcome, and the dingers hit by Teixera and Matsui in Game 2 also had no connection with the final result.

[gonzomax]

No, you didn't.

This is what you said:RickJay has already asked you to provide evidence that anyone said this, and i now repeat the call: show us one single person who said that the Yankees would be unbeatable. Put up, or shut up.
You're right, those home runs hit by Chase Utley were completely irrelevant to the Game 1 outcome, and the dingers hit by Teixera and Matsui in Game 2 also had no connection with the final result.

Are you suggesting 2 homers for a team is a big hitting performance for the whole team? Come on. You eventually have to score some runs to win. apparently 2 or 3 will do. If a 3 to 1 game is a big hitting game, then I am wrong. The yankees scored 1 run in game one. If that is big hitting, then I don't know what is.

[mhendo]

Are you suggesting 2 homers for a team is a big hitting performance for the whole team? Come on. You eventually have to score some runs to win. apparently 2 or 3 will do. If a 3 to 1 game is a big hitting game, then I am wrong. The yankees scored 1 run in game one. If that is big hitting, then I don't know what is.First, i never claimed it was a "big hitting game." I was specifically refuting your claim that "Hitting has been of little consequence." In fact, one could argue that, in a 3-1 game, hitting is of even greater consequence, because just a couple of hits can turn the game.

Now, who are the "stat freaks" who claimed the Yankees wold be unbeatable? I'm sure you have their names hidden away somewhere, amid all your obfuscation and goalpost-moving.

[pricciar]

The early innings looked pretty good for the Phillies. Hamels was really dealing. It's tough for me to figure out since I am nowhere near an expert. But, did Hamels break down or did the Yankees awesome line up just stand up and take over? You can't make mistakes against them, so I guess it is a little bit of both.

I was glad to see the Phillies keep battling. And, I hope they are able to put together a better performance Sunday night. The Yankees are a great team but, I would really be surprised to see them win 4 in a row against the Phils. Blanton has his work cut out for him to keep their win streak at 2.

[gonzomax]

First, i never claimed it was a "big hitting game." I was specifically refuting your claim that "Hitting has been of little consequence." In fact, one could argue that, in a 3-1 game, hitting is of even greater consequence, because just a couple of hits can turn the game.

Now, who are the "stat freaks" who claimed the Yankees wold be unbeatable? I'm sure you have their names hidden away somewhere, amid all your obfuscation and goalpost-moving.

The wandering goalposts belong to you. The hitting in this series has been anemic. Going into this game combined batting average was 220. That should give you a clue to whats determining these games.

[mhendo]

The wandering goalposts belong to you. The hitting in this series has been anemic. Going into this game combined batting average was 220. That should give you a clue to whats determining these games.And yet in this game the final score was 8-5.

Which small sample size wins? Yours or mine? Do you even understand what "small sample size" means?

I ask you again: Who said that the Yankees would be unbeatable? Support your claim, or retract it.

[Yookeroo]

I'm sure the cold weather is having no effect on hitting.

[Southern Yankee]

The early innings looked pretty good for the Phillies. Hamels was really dealing. It's tough for me to figure out since I am nowhere near an expert. But, did Hamels break down or did the Yankees awesome line up just stand up and take over? You can't make mistakes against them, so I guess it is a little bit of both.

I was glad to see the Phillies keep battling. And, I hope they are able to put together a better performance Sunday night. The Yankees are a great team but, I would really be surprised to see them win 4 in a row against the Phils. Blanton has his work cut out for him to keep their win streak at 2.

I think the Yankees' hitters just got to him. That's baseball. Good hitters will eventually hit. Hamels also looked like he fell in love with his breaking ball, and the Yankees started looking for it.

It was a really gutty performance by Pettitte. After the 3rd inning I was ready to ride out a long night, but he pulled himself together.

[RickJay]

The wandering goalposts belong to you...
You said that the board's "resident statheads" claimed the Yankees were unbeatable. Please name them.

[What Exit?]

I think the Yankees' hitters just got to him. That's baseball. Good hitters will eventually hit. Hamels also looked like he fell in love with his breaking ball, and the Yankees started looking for it.

It was a really gutty performance by Pettitte. After the 3rd inning I was ready to ride out a long night, but he pulled himself together.
Well Pettitte has done this more often than not most of his career. He is prone to that one sloppy inning and if a double play he induces does not get fielded well, runs get in. So unlike AJ, I expect him to settle back down. I was just worried the hitters weren't going to hit again.

[Colibri]

I ask you again: Who said that the Yankees would be unbeatable? Support your claim, or retract it.

You said that the board's "resident statheads" claimed the Yankees were unbeatable. Please name them.

Forget it, Jake. It's gonzomax.;)

[E-Sabbath]

The Phillies are really, really good, though. It is a lot like seeing a mirror of the Yankees play. But this year, we have the pitching. I think we have a better than even chance of winning the next two.

[Drain Bead]

What's up with the repeated plunking of A-Rod?

[What Exit?]

What's up with the repeated plunking of A-Rod?
Smart time to do it in a way. This prevents the Yanks from plunking Utley now. At least until tomorrow.

[RickJay]

What's up with the repeated plunking of A-Rod?
He deserves it.

[E-Sabbath]

Well, nobody ever said the Phillies played fair or sportsmanlike. Part of the game. Something to be remembered.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Well, nobody ever said the Phillies played fair or sportsmanlike. Part of the game. Something to be remembered.

Yes, that's true.

Or, well, it makes sense at least.
Or, OK. It isn't a totally fucking crazy thing to say about a first inning hit-by-pitch.
It's pretty crazy, though.

I guess honestly it's totally fucking crazy.

edit - THOSE CHEATING BASTARDS DID IT AGAIN

[What Exit?]

Gotta love Brad Lidge.

Is Jorge the worst base runner in the last 20 years? I mean he never ran up the third base line but he is truly bad on the base paths.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Gotta love Brad Lidge.

Is Jorge the worst base runner in the last 20 years? I mean he never ran up the third base line but he is truly bad on the base paths.

Tell me about it. He used to be awesome. I think it's that he can't be awesome two years in a row.

Good baserunning by Damon.





God, I hate the fucking Yankees.

[gonzomax]

Where the hell was the 3rd baseman on that steal?

[Southern Yankee]

The way the camera angle was when Damon stole second and popped up, I thought he did something stupid and was in a rundown. Very heads-up.

That's 10.

[pricciar]

I really let these games get the best of me. You would think I would have learned from when I was a kid and just cried and cried when they interviewed Owens after the game in '83. This game felt like that. It wouldn't have been as heart breaking if Lidge had just come out and sucked. But, he struck out Derek Fucking Jeter! The Yankees just took advantage of the opportunities given to them. They are an awesome team. Gotta hope Lee can find that magic again tomorrow night to bring this thing to New York.

E-Sabbath, obviously I am a Phillies fan, but I disagree wholeheartedly that their hitting A Rod shows unsportsmanlike behavior. The key to getting him out is to pitch him inside. That is what they have been trying to do the entire series. The plunks were accidents. It is an accident that happens when you pitch inside. Utley has led the league in hit by pitches a few years straight. I don't think it is because other pitchers don't like him or don't want to pitch to him. Most of these were accidents that happened due to the other pitch throwing to him inside. The same applies to these pitches to A Rod. Not every hit by pitch is malicious.

[Raygun99]

Where the hell was the 3rd baseman on that steal?

Running behind him with the ball.

[Marley23]

What a fucking ending! For a couple of minutes I was heartbroken for Joba - maybe I was projecting, but I thought he was looking tough and focused against the first two hitters. And then Damon nearly gave me an embolism when he took off for third, but it was an absolutely brilliant play that set the stage for Rodriguez and then Posada to come through in the clutch. Fantastic stuff with some classic Yankee October baseball. And after that eighth inning I was grateful for the most routine save I have ever seen.

The Yankees are playing with pure house money tomorrow night. If Burnett pitches like he did on Thursday it'll be over because the offense is finally working. What was all that about dominant pitching and the bats not mattering in the playoffs? The Yankees have scored 15 runs in the last two games.

[NinjaChick]

Jesus christ. It's game four of the World Series, you're trailing the series 2-1, top of the ninth, game tied, no one on base, two outs, two strikes.

And you lose. No, you don't just lose by one, that would be too predictable. Instead - again, game tied, top of the ninth, no one on base, two strikes - you lose by three runs.

...that sound you hear? The gears turning in my head as I try to figure how the hell a team manages to do that.

[The Other Jeffrey Lebowski]

Fantastic stuff with some classic Yankee October baseball.
Yesterday, perhaps.

[Marley23]

The World Series is on, so it's still October as far as I'm concerned. Any discrepancies with the Gregorian calendar are baseball's problem.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

E-Sabbath, obviously I am a Phillies fan, but I disagree wholeheartedly that their hitting A Rod shows unsportsmanlike behavior. The key to getting him out is to pitch him inside. That is what they have been trying to do the entire series. The plunks were accidents. It is an accident that happens when you pitch inside. Utley has led the league in hit by pitches a few years straight. I don't think it is because other pitchers don't like him or don't want to pitch to him. Most of these were accidents that happened due to the other pitch throwing to him inside. The same applies to these pitches to A Rod. Not every hit by pitch is malicious.

Not only am I a diehard Yankee fan, I am an Arod fan of the HIGHEST ORDER (as pricciar knows) and I do not believe these hit-by-pitches have been intentional.

Naturally when they'd hit him my inner RAEG would break through and I'd yell "you sumbitch!" or something worse, but I do realize they (like said above) are just trying to pitch him inside so he doesn't knock the cover off the ball.

No way do I believe they're hitting him on purpose in the first inning when they're already in trouble.

[Marley23]

The HBP tonight could not possibly have been intentional, and that goes for Tex's plunking as well. I didn't see last night's, but I doubt those were on purpose. That's where you have to pitch him.

[It's Not Rocket Surgery!]

So, if the Yankees win, who, based on their performance so far, would be the Series MVP? No Yankee standout so far. If Burnett wins tomorrow, I guess he should get it unless it's one of those 10-8 wins.

[Marley23]

Jeter. He only has one RBI but he's hitting .412 during the series. I think he has to be the guy even if Burnett is locked in tomorrow - they've won two games by outhitting the Phillies, so that says position player MVP to me. I thought Rivera had three saves, but he only has two, otherwise he would be a close second.

[E-Sabbath]

Man, the Yanks could _not_ have pulled that game any tighter. Ninth and two outs. Of course, once they break a hole, the hole, she is broken. It still counts as a squeaker of a win, to me, not a blowout.

And yeah, I guess you're right, it wasn't intentional about A-Rod, just tight.

[Southern Yankee]

Jeter. He only has one RBI but he's hitting .412 during the series. I think he has to be the guy even if Burnett is locked in tomorrow - they've won two games by outhitting the Phillies, so that says position player MVP to me. I thought Rivera had three saves, but he only has two, otherwise he would be a close second.

Right now I'd agree and say Jeter. Seems like he's been hitting everyone and on base all series. The Phillies are a tough team though, so I'd be a bit surprised to see them lose 3 in a row at home. If the series goes 6 or 7 games the MVP may change.

[Southern Yankee]

or A-Rod. He's been their postseason MVP for sure.

[What Exit?]

Right now I would go Jeter or Mo. His 6 out save the other night and the rest of his work makes him a candidate, especially if he closes out another close one tonight.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

I'm going to go with WhutJim? and say Mo at this point. It could chance, but Mo is the one that has done the most with his time IMHO

[Lamar Mundane]

Matsui is 4 for 8 with two homers and two RBI. Both homers came with two out and the one in game two broke a 1-1 tie and was the winning run.

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm not sure where this Rivera talk comes from, unless you are giving him a lifetime achievment award. He pitched 2 solid innings in game 1 though he did give up 3 baserunners. Beyond that all he has done was protect a couple 3 run leads, a task most pitchers should be able to accomplish. Rivera was much more valuable against Anaheim and Minnesota.

I'd give it to Burnett if he pitched decently tonight. If not probably Matsui or Jeter. Though if Lee throws a complete game shut-out tonight, I'd be tempted to give it to him.

[What Exit?]

I'm not sure where this Rivera talk comes from, unless you are giving him a lifetime achievment award. He pitched 2 solid innings in game 1 though he did give up 3 baserunners. Beyond that all he has done was protect a couple 3 run leads, a task most pitchers should be able to accomplish. Rivera was much more valuable against Anaheim and Minnesota.
Probably from watching the other closers on the other teams blowing games.

[Marley23]

Matsui is 4 for 8 with two homers and two RBI. Both homers came with two out and the one in game two broke a 1-1 tie and was the winning run.
That's a good batting average, but he's only a pinch hitter in the three Philly games. I don't think a good average and one big hit is enough to win the MVP award. I think you essentially need two or more clutch pitching performances, at least two big hits, or steadily torrid hitting.

The Yankees' RBI leader is Posada, with five. He's 4 for 13 in the series but he's not going to start tonight. If he comes in late and gets a big hit he might take it. Otherwise I say it's Jeter's to lose.

[RickJay]

Well, if Philly wins two more games it would appear to be Chase Utley.

[It's Not Rocket Surgery!]

Well, if Philly wins two more games it would appear to be Chase Utley.

All things considered, he probably should get it either way.

Of course, if the Yankees do win it's pretty obvious who the most valuable player to their success has been - Ryan Howard. ;)

[pricciar]

Well. My heart is back to beating normally again.

I know this is my homerism talking. But, not only do I think that Chase Utley is the best Phillie, but I think he is one of the top 5 players in the major leagues. I don't think he is underrated, but for non Phillies fan he might not be the first name that pops into your head for that sort of thing. I am glad he has really been shining in the national spot light this series.

That was a great game. I really think these teams are evenly matched, in spite of the fact that the Phils have not been able to pull out a game that was not started by Cliff Lee. They both have relentless lineups that keep on pushing.

Well. It's headed to New York! Anything can happen.

[Xema]

not only do I think that Chase Utley is the best Phillie, but I think he is one of the top 5 players in the major leagues
This article (http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/10/baseballs-most-underrated-player-chase-utley.html.php) makes a case that he could be considered second - to Albert Pujols.

[mhendo]

Scores in the last three World Series games:

8-5
7-4
8-6

That pitching sure is shutting down those hitters.

[DSYoungEsq]

Hey, gonzomax, are you enjoying seeing that pitching dominate?? :D

[Colibri]

Scores in the last three World Series games:

8-5
7-4
8-6

That pitching sure is shutting down those hitters.

Hey, considering the line-ups of these teams, the scores would be at least triple that if the pitchers weren't so good!;)

[BobLibDem]

I think what we're seeing is that the hitters are starting to figure out the pitchers. The pitchers come into these series with the knowledge of where they want to pitch to them, the batters need to get some at bats against these pitchers to learn how they throw the ball and develop their timing.

[NinjaChick]

Well. My heart is back to beating normally again.

I know this is my homerism talking. But, not only do I think that Chase Utley is the best Phillie, but I think he is one of the top 5 players in the major leagues. I don't think he is underrated, but for non Phillies fan he might not be the first name that pops into your head for that sort of thing. I am glad he has really been shining in the national spot light this series.

That was a great game. I really think these teams are evenly matched, in spite of the fact that the Phils have not been able to pull out a game that was not started by Cliff Lee. They both have relentless lineups that keep on pushing.

Well. It's headed to New York! Anything can happen.
Am I the only one who thinks that actually hitting the road will help the Phillies? Coming from behind and then winning in front of the Yankee's home crowd would be a hell of a victory.

[Xema]

Am I the only one who thinks that actually hitting the road will help the Phillies?
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think they are more likely to win in Yankee Stadium than at home. I do expect them to be highly motivated.


Coming from behind and then winning in front of the Yankee's home crowd would be a hell of a victory.
Without question.

[RickJay]

This article (http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/10/baseballs-most-underrated-player-chase-utley.html.php) makes a case that he could be considered second - to Albert Pujols.
Utley's a hell of a player but I'll still take Hanley.

It's funny how Utley didn't get to be a major league regular until he was 25. Ryan Howard didn't get to be the full tiem first baseman until he was 25. Shane Victorino rotted in the minors and on the bench until he was 25, too. Carlos Ruiz waited until he was 28. What the heck were the Phillies doing with these guys?

[Marley23]

As we get started tonight, I'll put on my Karnak turban and predict the Yankees win this one 5-4 after Jeter raps an RBI single to right in the ninth inning. maybe that's a little too poetic, but what the hell.

[Lamar Mundane]

Looks like Matsui is locking up the MVP. His numbers have gone from quite good to crazy good tonight.

[gonzomax]

Hey, gonzomax, are you enjoying seeing that pitching dominate?? :D

So you assume the right to declare when hitting dominates. Have at it. Game 5 the Yanks crank out 2 runs in the first 8 innings. Then scored a couple when the game was out of reach. The first 2 were pitching dominated. Five games and the Yanks were shut down hard in 3 of them.
Do you really see a hitting dominated series or are you just being a jerk?

[Marley23]

So you assume the right to declare when hitting dominates. Have at it.
The last three games have been high scoring.

Game 5 the Yanks crank out 2 runs in the first 8 innings. Then scored a couple when the game was out of reach.
They had the tying run at the plate. How is that out of reach?

The first 2 were pitching dominated. Five games and the Yanks were shut down hard in 3 of them.
And yet they're winning the series! How do you figure the series is being dominated by pitching if a team that was shut down three times - although it was only two, really - is four-plus innings away from winning?

[Marley23]

I wish I'd mentioned my little brother's prediction for this game, because so far he's right: he guessed Martinez would give up four runs in four innings. His further prediction is that the Yankees beat up on the Philly bullpen, and Pettitte gives up no more than three runs over six innings before turning the ball over to Joba and Mo. Score one for him, that was a hell of a prognostication!

[Hawkeyeop]

Utley's a hell of a player but I'll still take Hanley.

It's funny how Utley didn't get to be a major league regular until he was 25. Ryan Howard didn't get to be the full tiem first baseman until he was 25. Shane Victorino rotted in the minors and on the bench until he was 25, too. Carlos Ruiz waited until he was 28. What the heck were the Phillies doing with these guys?

I agree, but I am taking Utley third.

Howard was blocked by Thome. Neither of them really were going to switch positions. Howard put up some monster minor league seasons before he came up. You also left out Werth, who really only started playing everyday this season.

[mhendo]

So you assume the right to declare when hitting dominates. Have at it. Game 5 the Yanks crank out 2 runs in the first 8 innings. Then scored a couple when the game was out of reach. The first 2 were pitching dominated. Five games and the Yanks were shut down hard in 3 of them.
Do you really see a hitting dominated series or are you just being a jerk?You're funny.

[Marley23]

Arigato, Matsui! He probably had the MVP cinched with the single a few innings ago, but that double did it for sure. Roku RBI!

[Omniscient]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Phillies have hit a shitload of balls off the wall in this series? Seems like they've missed homers by just a couple feet 5 or 6 times already.

[What Exit?]

5 more outs and Mo is in.

[What Exit?]

Yankees Win!

Start spreading the news,
I'm leaving today.
I want to be a part of it -
New York, New York.

These vagabond shoes
Are longing to stray
And step around the heart of it
New York, New York.

I want to wake up in a city,
That doesn't sleep,
To find I'm king of the hill- ah-
Top of the heap.

My little town blues
Are melting away
I'm gonna make a brand new start of it
In old New York.
If I can make it there,
I'd make it anywhere
It's up to you,
New York, New York.

New York, New York!

I want to wake up in a city,
That doesn't sleep,
To find I'm king of the hill,
Head of the list,
Cream of the crop
At top of the heap.

[Southern Yankee]

That's 11.

[Marley23]

Like the people outside are saying, "Woooooo! Woooooooooo!" This is very, very sweet.

[Crawlspace]

That's 11.Correction, that's 27.

[mhendo]

Well, i guess this was inevitable. When you can afford to spend more on your four starting infielders than 14 out of 30 Major League teams spend on their complete rosters, it's not a matter of "if" but "when" the championship will come.

[gonzomax]

You're funny.

They averaged 10 hits a game all season. How many WS games did the Yanks get 10 hits?

[NinjaChick]

*sigh*

[Marley23]

Yes yes, we know. When they don't win, it's because you can't buy a championship with big spending. When they do win, it's because they bought the title. Whatever. You'll have to try harder than that if you want to rain on this parade. ;)

[Cat Whisperer]

Fucking Yankees.

[Mr Buttons]

I gotta chime in once just because the others have, but I kinda snapped at a yankee female fan after the final out. To quote what she said, "Sorry Philly, guess your payroll couldn't buy you the championship." I kinda lost it for a minute on that one, especially immediately after the loss.

For the non-asshole Yankee fans, congratulations. You were the only team I was afraid of for our Phillies since the playoffs started. I was really hoping someone would knock you off again in the early rounds, but A-Rod and Jeter came on strong after the final regular season game (who'd of thought?).

I have a feeling we might meet again next year.

[Marley23]

They averaged 10 hits a game all season. How many
WS games did the Yanks get 10 hits?
Are you kidding? They only got to 10 hits once, but they had eight or more hits in each of the last five games. That's pretty close and hardly shows they were shut down. They didn't score much in the first two games, but they scored plenty after that. You can't tell me the pitching held them down in the last four games. In games three through six, the Yanks scored seven runs a game: eight, seven, six, and seven. They scored 5.3 runs a game during the series and averaged 5.7 a game during the year. That's practically the same.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Fucking Yankees.
I knew it was inevitable, but still...
Fucking Yankees.

Congratuations to non-asshole Yankee fans.

[mhendo]

Yes yes, we know. When they don't win, it's because you can't buy a championship with big spending. When they do win, it's because they bought the title. Whatever. You'll have to try harder than that if you want to rain on this parade. ;)Actually, i've never made the first claim.

In fact, the Yankees' presence in every postseason but 1 over the past decade (more, actually) shows that money does buy success. The postseason itself is a bit of a crapshoot, where it's easily possible for the best teams to lose and the more mediocre teams to win (2006 Cardinals, anyone?), but getting to the postseason is the only really measurable measure (if you get my drift) of team-building success.

Six of the eight teams in this year's postseason were among the top 9 spenders. Coincidence?

I'm not intending to rain on your parade. I don't expect my observation to change how Yankee fans feel about their team. They have no real control over how much money Steinbrenner spends, so it's not even their fault. I wouldn't drop a team just because they had lots of money either. It doesn't change the reality of the situation.Are you kidding? They only got to 10 hits once, but they had eight or more hits in each of the last five games. That's pretty close and hardly shows they were shut down. They didn't score much in the first two games, but they scored plenty after that. You can't tell me the pitching held them down in the last four games. In games three through six, the Yanks scored seven runs a game: eight, seven, six, and seven. They scored 5.3 runs a game during the series and averaged 5.7 a game during the year. That's practically the same.Not only that, but they were playing the Phillies. During the season, they got to play a lot of games against a lot of teams with really shitty pitching.Congratulations to non-asshole Yankee fans.I believe that they're all celebrating in a Manhattan studio apartment.:)

[Marley23]

Actually, i've never made the first claim.
Cool. And yes, money definitely talks in baseball.

I believe that they're all celebrating in a Manhattan studio apartment.:)
Some of them had to move to Brooklyn because it got crowded in there.

ETA: Over the winter, I'm curious to see if Matsui played himself into a new contract with the Yankees with this enormous Series performance, or if they'll really let him go. The logic says they probably should, but we will see. I assume this was Pettitte's last ride and that he'll go out on top with this title, the playoff wins record, and victories in each of the clinching games.

[Lamar Mundane]

Rockies in 2010.

[Mr Buttons]

I gotta chime in once just because the others have, but I kinda snapped at a yankee female fan after the final out. To quote what she said, "Sorry Philly, guess your payroll couldn't buy you the championship." I kinda lost it for a minute on that one, especially immediately after the loss.


To clear up this point lest it take on a life of it's own while I'm sleeping, I had to yell back at her "Our payroll is 1/3 the size of yours, WTF are you talking about." After a quick Google search I see our's is around 60% their size.

So I was innaccurate to say what I said, but there's no way anyone should be yelling about Philly's payroll buying a championship, at a bar 50 miles outside of Philly either. :)

[Mister Rik]

I'm not intending to rain on your parade. I don't expect my observation to change how Yankee fans feel about their team. They have no real control over how much money Steinbrenner spends, so it's not even their fault.

But ... but it is their fault! Where do you think Steinbrenner gets all that money?
:p

[Mr Buttons]

But ... but it is their fault! Where do you think Steinbrenner gets all that money?
:p

If you can figure out a way to get 8 million people to not care enough about 55,000 seats a night (.006% interest in each game), let me know. We Pennsylvanians will get on it right away. :)

[Snowboarder Bo]

Although I pay little attention to sports these days, I am a lifelong Yankees fan. I have memorabilia that goes back to 1972 or so, including pennants, programs, and a baseball signed (in pen) by the 1976 team.

So count me as a happy guy when I saw the final score of tonight's game!

Go Yankees!

[sweepkick]

Meh... as I said before... *yawn*.

Yes, on a personal level it warms my heart to see the Yankees, with their beefy payroll, fail miserably.

Does it boil my blood when they're successful though? Not at all. After all, it really comes as no surprise, and it shouldn't for anyone.

I certainly don't, and have never, rubbed it in any Yankees fans faces when they fail. To be sure, many Yankees fans don't understand salaries and how it relates to talent, and at a fundamental level, don't really care. They are simple "Yankees fans". That's it. "Yankee fan". "I'm a Yankee fan". "I don't care how we do it, how it happens, What we have to do, how much we spend... Yankees ROCK".

The distinction here is whether they are simple "Yankees Fans"... as it were... or true baseball fans, with a fundamental love of the game itself. I see no pride in being the former.... but am willing to admit that, at this day and age, from NY perspective, it doesn't seem to matter.

Again... *yawn*.