Do college fraternities still haze?

[BKReporter]

When I was going to school, in the late 1990s, our university had a strict policy against hazing. But then again the school's alcohol policy didn't keep them from throwing huge keggers, so they didn't appear to be overly concerned about following the rules.
Anyway I didn't have any close friends who were in fraternities so I never really knew what sort of shenanigans pledges were expected to engage in. So does hazing still go on, and if so what form does it take? How does it compare to hazing that might have gone on in years past?
Note, I'm not out to bash fraternities or anything that. I don't have any strong feelings about them one way or another. I'm just genuinely curious about whether or not hazing still takes place.

[Jimmy Joe Meager]

"Hazing" is a very subjective term. What some might consider a silly prank, e.g. being required to stand on a table in the cafeteria during lunch and sing the school fight song at full volume, some might consider "hazing". (FWIW, I've seen this done. Never had to do it, but saw it done.)

What, exactly, did you have in mind? Any specific behaviors you were curious about?

[cainxinth]

Hazing is still very common.

[BKReporter]

"Hazing" is a very subjective term. What some might consider a silly prank, e.g. being required to stand on a table in the cafeteria during lunch and sing the school fight song at full volume, some might consider "hazing". (FWIW, I've seen this done. Never had to do it, but saw it done.)

What, exactly, did you have in mind? Any specific behaviors you were curious about?

Stuff like getting paddled or being forced to eat disgusting food or drink copious amounts of alcohol or anything else you might see pledges doing in a stereotypical college fraternity flick.
Also if they were expected to engage in any particularly cruel pranks, I'd consider that hazing.

[pan1]

Stuff like getting paddled or being forced to eat disgusting food or drink copious amounts of alcohol or anything else you might see pledges doing in a stereotypical college fraternity flick.
Also if they were expected to engage in any particularly cruel pranks, I'd consider that hazing.

Yes, this is still standard practice.

most pledges go along with it for fear that not doing so would get them rejected.

[longhair75]

A fraternity at the University of Nebraska was suspended for four years for hazing

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0422091unl1.html

[MissMossie]

A friend of mine in college was in a frat and he wasn't particularly overwhelmed by the hazing. Mostly it was stupid stuff like stealing x number of dry erase board markers from the dorms in twenty minutes. What he was disgusted by was a party thrown by a sorority house where the pledges were paraded out in bras and panties and the frat brothers present were encouraged to circle the problem areas on the young women's bodies. What a way to build sisterhood...

[BrandonR]

It's frowned upon by universities but it does still occur. I think if anything, the university's strict policies on it has just made it more secretive between fraternity brothers.

[outlierrn]

We have a trial in session in my town over the death of a freshman during a fraternity power drinking event.

[Argent Towers]

This is the problem with the fraternity mentality towards drinking. Drinking is an art. By which I mean, figuring exactly how many drinks will make you a "good" drunk, how many more might make you a "bad" drunk, and how many more after that will simply give you alcohol poisoning and a very costly ride in an ambulance, at best. A good drunk knows his limits and abides by them. Chugging drink after drink after drink in some kind of effort to prove what a big man you are, without giving any heed to your own tolerance for alcohol, is foolish - and if you wind up brain-dead and on a ventilator in a hospital with your parents debating whether or not to pull the plug, you deserve it!

[kunilou]

A quick check of Google News for "fraternity hazing" brings up 289 cites. On the first page alone, there are stories about hazing from: California, New Jersey, Georgia, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, New York and Florida.

[RealityChuck]

It's still going on, though far less commonly as colleges crack down on it for fear of lawsuits. Everyone once in awhile, someone is seriously injured and may even die, at which point colleges get even more serious.

[ftg]

In my area in recent years:

One frat requires pledges to swim across a pond in a local park. One time a student goes under and doesn't come up. They all take off. No 911 call. The body is found the next day. The frat closes ranks and no punishment.

A group of students are heavily alcohol intoxicated, one of them loses consciousness. They dump him in front of a nightclub entrance. Too late for medicial help. The frat closes ranks ...

There is the usual paddling scene at a frat. One student gets beaten so badly he has to be hospitalized for weeks and drop out of school. Lawsuit against frat ensues.

Police stop a suspicious car cruising in the country late at night. Find the trunk packed with pledges bound and gagged. Frat has alums in local high places. No charges filed.

Anyone who claims that it is thing of the past isn't reading the papers. If anything, the movies are unrealistically mild.

Remember, when consider joining a frat, these jerks aren't you're "brothers". If you need medical attention due to something they did, they are not going to help you. It's more important that you die than the frat getting punished.

[dangermom]

It's illegal here, and a few frats have been barred for doing it, but it still goes on. A couple of years ago a guy died from a hazing that involved exhausting all-night exercise combined with drinking way too much water. Every couple of years someone dies from alcohol poisoning as well, but that isn't always hazing.

Dangerous hazing does seem to be much less common here now, though, after years and years of serious work.

[Shadowfyre]

It was happening quite a bit when I was in a fraternity 15 years ago. Not in my fraternity specifically, but one of the houses on campus had all their pledges walk out on them. This was a school where everyone was an engineering, architecture, or computer sci major, so we didn't put up with a lot of bullshit. We had pretty much been nerds and outcasts and loners all our lives, so "belonging" wasn't worth any kind of hazing.

One time we had the pledges line up for some reason or another. After some reflection we realized that it could be construed as hazing and we apologized to them for it and never did anything like that again. Our house didn't even own any paddles for decoration.

My cousin was in a fraternity at Purdue around the same time. He got hazed but good.

[Kobal2]

Can't talk about the US, but here in France, while there have been laws passed against that sort of thing, my sister still had to spend the night inside a dead cow in vet school (amoung other, just as savory things. No sex stuff that I'm aware off, though).

[Beware of Doug]

Can't talk about the US, but here in France, while there have been laws passed against that sort of thing, my sister still had to spend the night inside a dead cow in vet school (amoung other, just as savory things. No sex stuff that I'm aware off, though).Of course in Europe, where they have Culture, things are Different. You're becoming part of an elite guild. The dead-cow requirement may go back centuries.

At least she didn't have to be sewn inside and buried.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Yep.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Can't talk about the US, but here in France, while there have been laws passed against that sort of thing, my sister still had to spend the night inside a dead cow in vet school (amoung other, just as savory things. No sex stuff that I'm aware off, though).
I assume this was something they put all the first year students through? This type of class hazing was once very common in the U.S. Around the turn of the last century there were commonly "class scraps" in which the entire first and second year classes would fight brutally; this seems to have been especially common in the state college campuses of the prairie states. Long ago I saw a 1910s-era yearbook from UC Berkeley, and there was something in there about how freshmen weren't "allowed" to enter some building or other by the front door. There was a little verse somebody had written about what would happen to "each trembling plebe, Who dares the North Hall steps ascend...".

Those wacky studends...In the 1930s and 40s, there was this custom among one of the classes (seniors, I think--just the males) of wearing the SAME pair of corduroy trousers through the year, and not washing them. Ever. One person recollected that the pants would just about stand up by themselves at the end of the year. It's hard to believe that little more than twenty years later many of these same guys were condemning their own sons for growing out their hair...

[Freudian Slit]

Can't talk about the US, but here in France, while there have been laws passed against that sort of thing, my sister still had to spend the night inside a dead cow in vet school (amoung other, just as savory things. No sex stuff that I'm aware off, though).

Seriously? That's vomitricious. I would just say no. To any of this. If they refuse to like me who cares--either way they're only interested in me because of the almighty dollar.

[BrandonR]

I never understood the appeal of fraternities if their initiation involves hazing. Why on earth you would pay exorbitant fees so that a bunch of douchebags can beat you or force you to do things you wouldn't want to do so that later you can binge drink with them and be their "friends" is beyond me.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I never understood the appeal of fraternities if their initiation involves hazing. Why on earth you would pay exorbitant fees so that a bunch of douchebags can beat you or force you to do things you wouldn't want to do so that later you can binge drink with them and be their "friends" is beyond me.
Not all fraternities (or at least, not all fraternity chapters) haze.

[Freudian Slit]

I never understood the appeal of fraternities if their initiation involves hazing. Why on earth you would pay exorbitant fees so that a bunch of douchebags can beat you or force you to do things you wouldn't want to do so that later you can binge drink with them and be their "friends" is beyond me.

Yeah, if I'm paying that much, I should get to hit one of them in the nuts at least!

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Why on earth you would pay exorbitant fees...Although fees vary, they are usually not that much. The cost of joining a house may not be much more than you would have to pay anyway to live in the dorms. Of course, this marginal difference will be enough to keep some people away.

[MichaelQReilly]

I was in fraternity in the early part of this decade. I suppose we hazed, but it was really mild stuff that was meant to be funny: wear dumb outfits at parties, sing stupid songs at diner, etc. The worst thing that anyone ever did was get an industrial-sized container of plastic wrap and wrap all the pledges together down at the football field and leave them there to get out.

[BrandonR]

Although fees vary, they are usually not that much. The cost of joining a house may not be much more than you would have to pay anyway to live in the dorms. Of course, this marginal difference will be enough to keep some people away.

That's true. I was mainly thinking of the fraternities that don't have dedicated housing and the fee you pay is just a membership fee (doesn't go toward living expenses).

[Iridescent Orb]

One reason hazing continues is that it instils a strong sense of loyalty in fraternity members and leads them to value their fraternity experience more highly. Even if the frat sucks, many people will subconsciously enhance the experience to justify the pain and humiliation they had to endure to gain entry. Otherwise, they would have to admit to themselves they were fools and made a bad decision. It is similar to having to wait a long time to get into a nightclub – it sure must be good!

I don’t think most beer soaked frat brothers are aware of the underlying psychology, though. Most likely they are just continuing a pattern that has worked in the past.

My apologies for not having a specific cite handy, but googling various combinations of "hazing fraternity loyalty" pulls up a few scholarly articles.

[Argent Towers]

Schools used to be much more violent then they are today. Students in Europe used to regularly challenge each other to duels, and dueling scars were seen as the mark of an educated man.

[Martini Enfield]

Schools used to be much more violent then they are today. Students in Europe used to regularly challenge each other to duels, and dueling scars were seen as the mark of an educated man.

Not since the late 19th Century, as far as I'm aware. But yes, in earlier times, Academics would indeed sometimes settle disagreements by duelling.

[BigT]

Hazing goes on even in high school, if you count the embarrassing but not illegal stuff. Debutant pledges will dress up like our mascot, have to carry around a sign saying they will sing "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" or "I'm a Little Teapot" if you pay them a dollar. Yeah, it's disguised as a fundraiser, but everyone knows that only pledges do it, and you can't get in if you don't. And that's just the stuff that's out in the open.

As for fraternities, they come with more than fake friends and boozing. Tons of guys would lose their scholarship money, and be allowed to go live with a mate, until they could raise the money to go back. They will go out of their way to help you if you get into any type of trouble. And they stay together even after they are no longer members, so they lose their fake-ness, anyways.

Now, I wouldn't go through illegal, or panic inducing, or unhealthful. But other stuff isn't that big a deal. Like I said, embarrassment. Or harmless pranks. The concept itself isn't really that problematic: it's just the extremes.

[Argent Towers]

Not since the late 19th Century, as far as I'm aware. But yes, in earlier times, Academics would indeed sometimes settle disagreements by duelling.

Nobody was ever supposed to die in these fencing duels, though. I'm not sure if it ever happened, but I doubt it. If I had to choose between fencing in a duel and getting my face slashed, and drinking until I get alcohol poisoning and potentially become brain-dead, I would choose the duel in a heartbeat. I would much rather have my face slashed than be forced to drink to the point of illness. And it's a way better story to tell, too.

[EvilTOJ]

Not since the late 19th Century, as far as I'm aware. But yes, in earlier times, Academics would indeed sometimes settle disagreements by duelling.

That's how Tycho Brahe lost his nose. (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1270/did-astronomer-tycho-brahe-really-have-a-silver-nose)

[Kyla]

I'm a grad student at a Big 10 university with a big Greek scene. Now, being older and also being sort of baffled by the whole thing (my undergrad doesn't really have this sort of thing), I'm not very interested and I certainly haven't gone to any frat parties, but last month I did see some signs of minor hazing, like guys wandering around in silly outfits and wigs, and girls saying odd phrases to passersby, before giggling hysterically. Nothing that looked like it would cause severe emotional trauma.

The intracampus buses also had placards reminding us that hazing is bad to let university authorities know if it was going on.

[Algher]

WAY back in the 80s I joined a housed fraternity. The activities that would probably count as hazing:

Roll-outs. Woken up in the middle of the night, stand in the house's living in your boxers, drink cheap beer.

Dinners. Tossed a cheap beer to drink as punishment for some transgression.

Cheap beer ranged from Milwaukee's Best to malt liquors, and sometimes they might be warmed up a bit.

If you had a midterm or other such academic work, you could drink a substitute of something like prune juice or other less than desired liquids. Your pledge brothers also might help you out.

While some of this qualifies as hazing, it was never seen as really scary, punishing, etc. It was all part of the game, and for the most part enjoyed. We had none of the paddling, sexual stuff, or damages around. No hard liquor was ever used in the pledge program, as a way of keeping away from the worst of alcohol poisoning.

As for dump and run - never happened. We had a guy drinking, who then did a bong hit and went down with an asthma attack. We got medical care immediately. We forced another brother to get counseling for alcohol problems.

I don't know if that makes my house unique, or if there is just confirmation bias among those that hate houses. Fraternities typically only make the news when someone really screws up.

[Taenia spp.]

Alright, I'll try to help answer this, albeit through second-hand knowledge. I attend an academically rigorous state school, though I think it ranks at a moderate party/Greek scene level. Though I am not, and have never been, part of the Greek system, I have friends who are and have talked with classmates about their experiences with hazing.

Obviously, the levels of stupid shit vary wildly from frat to frat. At least a couple of them are little more than housing co-ops. Guys join the frats to essentially pay significantly less than the going housing market rent. Then there are your typical party-hard "Animal House" type arrangements.

The administration has a strict no-hazing policy and they do enforce it. Therefore, I think all the rush chairs for the frats quite understand that they do not want to expose anyone to a life-threatening situation. One of the more severe hazing incidents recently involved lining up a bunch of pledges on an empty baseball diamond in the middle of the night on a bitterly cold fall night. They were discovered by campus security, and I think sanctions were eventually imposed on the frat in question.

At least one guy I talked to confirmed that, yes, there are still marathon drinking competitions involved as part of the hazing ritual. However, he emphasized that the frat would never force a pledge to drink more than he thought was safe. One pledge, did in fact refuse to drink that night and his chances of being accepted into the frat were not affected.

More commonly, however, are rituals that provide an inconvenience to the pledges. It's very common for pledges to be given a long handbook of facts about the fraternity history, past members, etc. and be required to recite passages and facts from the book anytime one of the regular frat brothers asks them to. It's also ubiquitous that pledges be required to spend every hour of their night and day (excepting class time) at the fraternity house. Thus, during rush time, some students in the university housing will expound on how lucky they are to have an apparent lack of a roommate. Another tactic is sleep deprivation; pledges are required to stay up for several nights in a row, attending class in a pleasantly zombie-like fashion.

[Derleth]

Another tactic is sleep deprivation; pledges are required to stay up for several nights in a row, attending class in a pleasantly zombie-like fashion.This is a health hazard, both in and of itself and in conjunction with normal daily living on an even moderately crowded campus.

[joebuck20]

Not having to do with fraternities, but this seemed like a good thread to bring it up in. Back in high school I heard rumors of guys on the baseball team dipping their balls in ice cream and teabagging new members. Has anyone here ever heard of anything like that?

[Hippy Hollow]

There are many scholars that do research in this area, like Dr. Walter Kimbrough. Dude is awesome.

I'm a professor at a large state university which happens to be the same institution I attended as an undergrad eons ago. I'm also Greek, but I should state that I am a member of NPHC organization (Black Greeks). Hazing was illegal when I was in school, but it was done anyway on an underground basis. Black Greeks got away with a lot of stuff because it was seen as "cultural" and to be frank, IFC Greek advisors had no idea what was being done half the time.

All of the major Black Greek orgs (Alpha, Kappas, Ques) with the possible exception of the Sigmas have been sued successful because of hazing injuries and/or deaths since the late 80s. They all officially do not haze or have lines, but I know it still goes on.

I happened to be part of a spirit/service organization that was essentially a "superfraternity" in that the members were mostly from the houses on campus with a few independent guys mixed in. One night the "new guys" were brought to an "inspiration night." It was in the basement of one of the most prestigious houses on campus. The guys in this house were known for being leaders on campus - not big knuckleheads or drinkers, but the kind of frat that got respect from administrators and independents. The basement was essentially a dungeon. They had paddles and cattle prods down there. There were also private rooms - guys would be taken in there and you'd hear them shouting and swearing. Really creepy stuff.

The administrators who sanction fraternities are Greek themselves a lot of times and have a big picture mentality - hazing really embeds a lot of terrible habits, ruins the intake experience for a lot of people, and killing or seriously injuring someone is a likely outcome. What's more, the legal system and civil cases can pretty much take a fraternity out by incarcerating the members and suing the national organization into oblivion.

But it still happens, and I suspect it's pretty invisible unless you know what to look for. I was driving home the other day and noticed a group of similarly dressed young men erecting a fence next to one of the more notorious houses. I'm pretty sure that's not all they were doing, and if they wanted to walk off and leave there'd be pretty serious consequences.

One of the administrators who is also one of my students points out that it's a difficult position. He has to foster relationships and trust with Greeks so he can effectively do his job. But if he busts a house every time they do something that either is hazing, or could be construed as hazing, that trust evaporates.

I know of two deaths from alcohol poisoning at our campus in the past 2-3 years.