I didn't know that was actually illegal.

[wolfman]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/12/fake.veteran/index.html

I don't want to come off as a sympathizer to this ass. It is pretty scummy to lie about receiving military awards. But I had no idea there was a specific federal crime against it.

Before his deception was revealed, crowds ate up his story. He canvassed Colorado appearing at the sides of politicians. Inspiring and seemingly authentic, he spoke on behalf of veterans at the state Capitol.

Now if he charged appearance fees for any of that stuff then I could see something in the fraud genre being thrown at him. But the federal crime of ""for false claims about receipt of military decorations or medals" seems pretty funky from a free-speech grounds.

[UncleBill]

The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005) criminalized the purposeful wearing of unearned military decorations or claiming to have been awarded the same (Federal Misdemeanor). The Act expanded the earlier law against wearing the Medal of Honor. It usually stipulates the offender does it for personal gain, but it does not have the monetary gain.

[rowrrbazzle]

CNN coyly says, "He canvassed Colorado appearing at the sides of politicians."

Those politicians were all anti-war Democrats. http://www.denverpost.com/washington/ci_12373595

Oops.

[DigitalC]

CNN coyly says, "He canvassed Colorado appearing at the sides of politicians."

Those politicians were all anti-war Democrats. http://www.denverpost.com/washington/ci_12373595

Oops.

What does that have to do with anything?

[Duckster]

But the federal crime of ""for false claims about receipt of military decorations or medals" seems pretty funky from a free-speech grounds.

It's called fraud. No free speech protection.

[Marley23]

Now if he charged appearance fees for any of that stuff then I could see something in the fraud genre being thrown at him. But the federal crime of ""for false claims about receipt of military decorations or medals" seems pretty funky from a free-speech grounds.
I'm going to disagree: fraud is against the law, like Duckster said. I don't think society loses anything if this is against the law. It's also a crime to impersonate a police officer even if you don't arrest anyone, or to impersonate a firefighter. I'd say this is similar to those laws.

[FairyChatMom]

I'd be inclined to guess that people who think this is no big deal have never served in the military and don't understand what ribbons and medals mean. They're not just fashion accessories. Yeah, some are pretty much gimmies, like the National Defense Medal, which you get just for being in uniform during a war - I got one when I enlisted during the Viet Nam War, even tho I never got closer to the action than San Diego.

Others have to be earned - whether for marksmanship, good conduct, or valor in combat. And such things as aviator wings, surface warfare pins, submariner dolphins, SEAL badge (I was Navy - I know other services have their special insignia, too) - you have to put a lot of effort into earning those. So to have someone pretending for whatever reason is a slap at those who really deserve them. And it's just not right. It's as dishonest as claiming to have graduated from an Ivy League school when you really flunked out of community college. Or claiming you're a lawyer when you actually empty the trash cans at a law firm. Well, you get the idea...

[E-Sabbath]

I should point out that one of those 'anti-war democrats' is someone I consider a hero. Hal Bidlack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Bidlack

He's a good guy, served capably and ably under two presidents, in some fairly tricky positions.

Oops my ass. This is the guy this scumbag ripped off some of his story from.

[Gatopescado]

Every drunk I've ever beat at darts in a bar has claimed to be a Ranger, Green Beret, Seal, Special Forces or flown Stealth Fighters. :rolleyes: Invariably they could all kill me 18 different ways with a paper clip.

I've always wondered who does all the other stuff in the military if everyone is "Elite" status.

[Little Nemo]

Every drunk I've ever beat at darts in a bar has claimed to be a Ranger, Green Beret, Seal, Special Forces or flown Stealth FightersIt must have still been early in the evening. After a few more drinks he'd have told you he was a Ranger, Green Beret, Seal, Special Forces and flew Stealth Fighters.

[Zsofia]

Yeah, they made a special dispensation for him.

[Sampiro]

Lots of pawn shops/antique shops/flea markets etc. sell military awards, especially Purple Hearts. Some army surplus stores sell medals and insignia that's almost identical to the real thing; it would fool most people (myself included) with no military background. I wonder out of curiosity if its against the law to wear these if you haven't earned them, assuming that you make no actual claims.

I remember a few years ago Bargs Root Beer had free Soviet military medals in each box. They were the real deal. Must have made the Russian guys who were wounded or awarded valorous duty medals in Afghanistan or whatever feel great to know that the exact same award was being included with $2.99 12 packs.

[Zebra]

I'd be inclined to guess that people who think this is no big deal have never served in the military and don't understand what ribbons and medals mean.



Never served in the military but I think it's a big deal.

[Boyo Jim]

If he committed fraud, why wasn't he charged with committing fraud?

I gotta go with the OP -- this law "stolen valor" law seems to me to be akin to all the various flag-burning laws and amendments.

Maybe there should be a more generic Patheic Losers Who Try to Draw Attention to and Make Heroes of Themslves law.

[mhendo]

I'm going to disagree: fraud is against the law, like Duckster said. I don't think society loses anything if this is against the law. It's also a crime to impersonate a police officer even if you don't arrest anyone, or to impersonate a firefighter. I'd say this is similar to those laws.If what he did was fraud, then prosecute him for fraud. Don't go making bullshit, pander-to-the-douchebags specific laws like the "Stolen Valor Law."

Also, was it fraud?

There are laws against fraud, but those laws are often reasonably specific about what constitutes fraud, and i'm pretty sure that most of them are far more complicated than "Fraud = lying about your past."

[Marley23]

If what he did was fraud, then prosecute him for fraud. Don't go making bullshit, pander-to-the-douchebags specific laws like the "Stolen Valor Law."
You have to be a douchebag to make it a crime to impersonate a veteran? What exactly is bullshit about this? Like I said before, it's also against the law to impersonate a police officer or firefighter. Is that bullshit?

There are laws against fraud, but those laws are often reasonably specific about what constitutes fraud, and i'm pretty sure that most of them are far more complicated than "Fraud = lying about your past."
Colorado has a fraud law that makes it illegal to misrepresent yourself for personal gain or to harm someone else. I think this is it:
(http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics2004a/csl.nsf/502942e83290800b87256d87006c5b8d/7430cf40c521873c87256d7800636694/$FILE/wptemp.txt)
SECTION 2. 18-5-113, Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
18-5-113. Criminal impersonation - identity theft.
(1) A person commits criminal impersonation if he or she knowingly assumes a false or fictitious identity or capacity, and in such identity or capacity he or she:
(a) Marries, or pretends to marry, or to sustain the marriage relation toward another without the connivance of the latter; or
(b) Becomes bail or surety for a party in an action or proceeding, civil or criminal, before a court or officer authorized to take the bail or surety; or
(c) Confesses a judgment, or subscribes, verifies, publishes, acknowledges, or proves a written instrument which by law may be recorded, with the intent that the same may be delivered as true; or
(d) Does an act which if done by the person falsely impersonated, might subject such person to an action or special proceeding, civil or
criminal, or to liability, charge, forfeiture, or penalty; or
(e) Does any other act with intent to unlawfully gain a benefit for himself or herself or another or to injure or defraud another; or
(f) Applies for, or completes, any government-issued document.

[Boyo Jim]

...Colorado has a fraud law that makes it illegal to misrepresent yourself for personal gain or to harm someone else. I think this is it:
(http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics2004a/csl.nsf/502942e83290800b87256d87006c5b8d/7430cf40c521873c87256d7800636694/$FILE/wptemp.txt)

None of these criminalizing elements appear to have been done by the dick on the OP. And in the OP link, there are claims that whether or not he profited from the impersonation is irrelevant. I personally think it is central to the question of whether he actually committed a crime in the sense of there being a victim.

Stolen Valor? The very name is prima facia evidence of bullshit.

The guy lied about his past, and maybe wore a costume to reinforce the lie. IMO that makes him a huge douchebag, not a criminal.

[mhendo]

You have to be a douchebag to make it a crime to impersonate a veteran? What exactly is bullshit about this? Like I said before, it's also against the law to impersonate a police officer or firefighter. Is that bullshit?You really don't know the difference?

A police officer and a firefighter are public servants employed for specific purposes, and their job requires that they perform specific duties, and that they be vested with particular levels of authority over civilians in certain situations. Impersonating those people can actively cause harm (in the case, for example, of someone impersonating a cop in order to get into someone's house), or can lead to detrimental consequences (someone impersonating a firefighter might be assumed to have a level of medical and first aid skills that he does not, in fact, posses). The harm, in such cases, is material and has potential to be a threat to people's health and even their lives.

Do i need to go on? Do i really need to explain to you why this is different than impersonating someone who is a veteran of the armed forces?Colorado has a fraud law that makes it illegal to misrepresent yourself for personal gain or to harm someone else. I think this is it:
(http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics2004a/csl.nsf/502942e83290800b87256d87006c5b8d/7430cf40c521873c87256d7800636694/$FILE/wptemp.txt)OK, so there are two possibilities here:

1) The guy broke that law, and did in fact commit fraud. If that's the case, then prosecute him under that law.

2) The guy did not break that law. If he didn't break that law, i see no need for a law specifically prohibiting him from claiming to be a veteran.

[Marley23]

None of these criminalizing elements appear to have been done by the dick on the OP.
(e) does. He gained prestige and fame by inventing a background for himself, and he covered up his criminal background.

You really don't know the difference?
I do. But they're pretty similar to matter how you slice it: it's a crime to impersonate a firefighter even if there's no fire, for example, even though that doesn't harm anyone. I agree that this law looks redundant with the fraud law, and yes, it gives extra status to veterans. Is that really so offensive?

[Boyo Jim]

"Prestige and fame" are intangibles and it would take a team of lawyers to decide whether that in itself constitutes "gain". Is self-inflation of your ego gain? Personally, I think not, at least not in the sense that a court would recognize. Now, if the guy, DID raise money under false pretenses, or apply for some veteran's benefits, or anything tangible like that, I would agree that that is a criminal act.

It would be nice if a lawyer dropped by to clarify some legal concepts for us.

[mhendo]

Is that really so offensive?I'd settle for incredibly retarded, if that would make you happy.

[Guinastasia]

Never served in the military but I think it's a big deal.

Same here. I have quite a few veterans in my family (both of my grandfathers served in WWII, and all of my paternal great uncles were in either WWII or Korea). It pisses me off that someone would try and impersonate someone who actually DID go through all of that.
I also have TWO cousins who are Iraqi veterans -- one who was there about two years ago, and his younger brother, who's coming home in Jan.

"Flag burning" is expressing oneself. This guy isn't doing that -- he's trying to gain something he didn't earn. Why should he get the spotlight? Those who actually did the work are being ignored. And he's wearing awards that don't belong to him.

Fuck him.



(Question, though. What if I'm the daughter of a veteran, and he leaves me his Purple Heart. Would I be allowed to wear it in honor of my father? What about heirlooms?)

[Marley23]

"Prestige and fame" are intangibles and it would take a team of lawyers to decide whether that in itself constitutes "gain".
Looks like common sense to me. Financial gain is not required, and I suspect most people who lie about being veterans are doing it for popularity or sex, not money.