Memo to Tom Zarek & Felix Gaeta: Frak you!

[vivalostwages]

Spoilers boxed for those who have not yet gotten through season 4.5 of BSG...
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Tom and Felix, you just had to go and
stage a bloody coup, wipe out the quorum, and then get executed, didn't you?

After that episode--"Blood on the Scales"--I had nightmares. A whole series of them. Bloody, violent, zombie apocalypse nightmares. I'd wake up after one and then go back to sleep and have another. It was frakking horrible.

Frak you both very much, you frakking bastards!

That is all.

[Drain Bead]

I've seen the whole series, so I don't really care, but your spoilers are still visible on mouseover.

Wow, I reported the OP and when I got back, twicks had already fixed it. Ludicrous speed!

[vivalostwages]

Sorry, and thanks. What should I have done to prevent the problem?

[Hamlet]

I hated what the writer's did with Gaeta's character in season 4 and that episode nearly made me walk away from the series. It was pathetic.

[Tamerlane]

I hated what the writer's did with Gaeta's character in season 4 and that episode nearly made me walk away from the series. It was pathetic.

I rather liked it in a meta way.

I was/am a Gaeta fan and so in a sense I wasn't pleased that a favorite character ended up falling so far. But I thought it was realistic to take this starry-eyed idealist and systematically strip him of every aspect of his idealism until he was nothing but a bitter shell. Gaeta was fucked over and inadvertently fucked himself over, hard. That he would become a villain, however reluctantly, was good plotting. I thought it was really well done.

As opposed to, say, the "Dark Willow" transformation in Buffy, which was a good idea flubbed in the execution.

[Tanbarkie]

I rather liked it in a meta way.

I was/am a Gaeta fan and so in a sense I wasn't pleased that a favorite character ended up falling so far. But I thought it was realistic to take this starry-eyed idealist and systematically strip him of every aspect of his idealism until he was nothing but a bitter shell. Gaeta was fucked over and inadvertently fucked himself over, hard. That he would become a villain, however reluctantly, was good plotting. I thought it was really well done.

As opposed to, say, the "Dark Willow" transformation in Buffy, which was a good idea flubbed in the execution.

Ditto on both points. Dark Willow was a great idea in concept, but was terribly executed. The fact that it had actually already been done well by the same show (see "The Wish" and "Doppelgangland") just made the suckage of actual Dark Willow seem that much worse.

Gaeta's trip to the dark side, on the other hand, was foreshadowed as early as the first season, and is believably executed throughout, from the loss of innocence during the early days of the war to the disillusionment with the People In Charge during and after New Caprica. His relationship with Gaius was particularly well done - especially in the lovely way their roles reverse over the course of the show.

Overall, Gaeta ranks as my second favorite "good character gone bad" arc on modern TV, after Wesley Wyndham-Pryce on Angel.

[Chronos]

Whew! I've finally finished BSG, and am free to look at spoilers, and now it seems like everyone's having spoilered discussions of The Plan, instead. It's nice to see spoilers for what I've already seen, now that I can see them!

And yes, I thought it was a believable path, but only if you've seen the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes. Without them, it seems like it would just be jarring.

[twickster]

Sorry, and thanks. What should I have done to prevent the problem?

Do what I did -- add returns with periods. Empty returns just disappear. Or, do a two-post OP, with the spoilers in the second post. Mouseover only shows the first post.

Wow, I reported the OP and when I got back, twicks had already fixed it. Ludicrous speed!
Who you callin' ludicrous? :mad:


;)

[silenus]

And yes, I thought it was a believable path, but only if you've seen the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes. Without them, it seems like it would just be jarring.

Not really. It was still a believable arc, and one I really liked. But then again, I never really liked Gaeta. That Zarek would end up the way he did was pre-ordained.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

That Zarek would end up the way he did was pre-ordained.

In normal, shitty, TV writing, he would probably have died while saving the fleet from Space Weevils or some such. Last minute redemptions are a cheap way out. BSG, OTOH .....

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a coup in BSG.

[vivalostwages]

Do what I did -- add returns with periods. Empty returns just disappear. Or, do a two-post OP, with the spoilers in the second post. Mouseover only shows the first post.

snip)

Thanks! You have alleviated some ignorance.

[Chronos]

Zarek wasn't a surprise, of course, but I wasn't expecting him to be quite that evil. It almost seemed like he was getting some redemption, when he refused to go along with Baltar and the Cylons on New Caprica.

Yeah, he was planning on assassinating Rosalyn and Adama in one of the first episodes we saw him in, but there's a difference between an assassination and a massacre. I had him figured for the type to only kill where he deemed necessary, and preferably where it could be done subtly, without pointing directly to him.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Overall, Gaeta ranks as my second favorite "good character gone bad" arc on modern TV, after Wesley Wyndham-Pryce on Angel.

It's off topic, but I don't think Wesley went bad. Nothing he did to Angel and Connor was motivated by anything but love for both of them; he wasn't even a tiny bit selfish in that arc.

[Contrapuntal]

I've seen the whole series, so I don't really care, but your spoilers are still visible on mouseover.

Wow, I reported the OP and when I got back, twicks had already fixed it. Ludicrous speed!Piffle. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=537896)

[Mr. Excellent]

I actually don't believe that Felix and Zarek were villains - the coup may have been rather more bloody than would be ideal, but they were correct to try it. The "Letter From A Colonial Citizen" makes this point more eloquently than I could: http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-tom-zarek-was-right.html

[RickJay]

Zarek wasn't a surprise, of course, but I wasn't expecting him to be quite that evil. It almost seemed like he was getting some redemption, when he refused to go along with Baltar and the Cylons on New Caprica.
Zarek wasn't evil (in the two dimensional sense TV shows usually portray it) - he was unethical, and was unwillingly to accept authority unless it was his own. He is ALWAYS the rebel; it doesn't matter if it's humans in charge (the fleet pre-Final Five) Cylons in charge (New Caprica) or sort of both (fleet after Final Five.)

Zarek was the product of two very real character traits; pathological rebellion and a lack of ethics. He probably DID see the massacre of the council as necessary, just as countless radicals have massacred people to "defend the revolution."

Gaeta, by comparison, is driven to the coup by a misplaced sense of ethics; he truly believes Adama et al. have betrayed the human race.

What's interesting about the story arc is that Zarek and Gaeta become allies in the same enterprise for totally different reasons of character and motive. Zarek is a driven rebel and radical who wants to take power because upsetting the apple cart of power is his purpose in life. Gaeta, by comparison, gets there because a confluence of events points his moral compass in the wrong direction. As Mr. Excellent's link points out, Felix is not wrong in his mistrust of Cylons and he in particular has been personally stung by them; to be honest, he has a point. Zarek simply mistrusts anyone who tries to exert powr over him.

Once the two sort of take over it starts to fall apart for the same reason it got together; Gaeta wants an orderly, lawful transition of power, while Zarek remains a revolutionary and just wants to put all his opponents against the wall.

[Lightray]

You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a coup in BSG.
tsk. Hasn't Romo Lampkin suffered enough?

[billfish678]

tsk. Hasn't Romo Lampkin suffered enough?

thats funny :)

having said that, could someone explain that whole cat/lawyer thingy ?

[The Devil's Grandmother]

I think we were supposed to guess that the lawyer was a cylon because he had a cat no-one else could see, just like Baltar's head-Six.

[DigitalC]

I think we were supposed to guess that the lawyer was a cylon because he had a cat no-one else could see, just like Baltar's head-Six.

I thought his cat got murdered because Romo defended Baltar then he carried it around in his bag for a few weeks.

[jackdavinci]

I hated what the writer's did with Gaeta's character in season 4 and that episode nearly made me walk away from the series. It was pathetic.

I loved it, worked really well for me. But I thought his whole romance in the web series was wasted since it wasn't referenced in the show except for a few meaningful looks.

[jackdavinci]

I think we were supposed to guess that the lawyer was a cylon because he had a cat no-one else could see, just like Baltar's head-Six.

Eh Adama saw his wife for an episode. I think there were other examples.

[Munch]

I actually don't believe that Felix and Zarek were villains - the coup may have been rather more bloody than would be ideal, but they were correct to try it. The "Letter From A Colonial Citizen" makes this point more eloquently than I could: http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-tom-zarek-was-right.html

Ugh. His use of "Cylon" as a collective noun truly bugs me. The show uses "Cylons" all the fraking time - why the hell does he think he's using that correctly?

[Munch]

I thought his cat got murdered because Romo defended Baltar then he carried it around in his bag for a few weeks.

His cat had died long before that. It was just to show how emotionally damaged and traumatized he'd been from the whole war experience.

[AndyPolley]

Ugh. His use of "Cylon" as a collective noun truly bugs me. The show uses "Cylons" all the fraking time - why the hell does he think he's using that correctly?

While I agree with you about that article, the cylons refer to themselves collectively as "The Cylon" quite often.

"Thousands of cylons died on that Resurrection ship."

"Will you tell your children stories of the cylon?"

So he’s not 100% wrong, but it was still (good points aside) annoying to read.

What I loved about "Blood on the Scales" was that the coup would have succeeded if Gaeta just listened to Zarek. I think Zarek executed the quorum not just because they wouldn't roll over, it was also to convince Gaeta that he needed to execute Adama. Revolution is a bloody thing--the longer you wait to assert complete control, the more likely it is that you will fail. Zarek was right--if they wanted to succeed, they need to spill more blood more quickly.

[muldoonthief]

Ugh. His use of "Cylon" as a collective noun truly bugs me. The show uses "Cylons" all the fraking time - why the hell does he think he's using that correctly?

Try rereading it, but substitute "the Negro" for "the Cylon". I think the writer was going for that kind of tone.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

Eh Adama saw his wife for an episode. I think there were other examples.

Yes, I think all the scenes of humans with very realistic fantasies were a deliberate mis-direction on the "Who's the cylon" plot. I also agree with Munch that the lawyer was a representative of all the walking wounded civilians in the fleet.