100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do

[WPA-Guy]

Here is a link to a New York Times Blog:

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/

Preview:

32. Never touch a customer. No excuses. Do not do it. Do not brush them, move them, wipe them or dust them.


I love the list and the comments have to be from the teeming millions.

Bob

[Bob Ducca]

I like this one:

21. Never serve anything that looks creepy or runny or wrong.

[ivylass]

I see nothing wrong with complimenting someone on their attire, if it strikes me.

I wonder what 51-100 will be?

51) Serve the kids first. Get them crayons and crackers and keep them occupied.

[tdn]

51. When taking everyone's orders, make sure to write down every single order.

51a. When someone at the table complains that you didn't comply with rule 51, don't cover your ass with "Oh, it's coming out in a minute." When everyone else's order took 25 minutes, that one unremarkable meal really shouldn't take 50.

[Gus Gusterson]

Don't ask, "Have you been to [restaurant name] before?" and then launch into an explanation of how your restaurant is unique. Your restaurant is not unique unless you are going to get under the table and blow me. Then your restaurant is unique and I would like to hear more about it. After you're done blowing me.

[ivylass]

51a. When someone at the table complains that you didn't comply with rule 51, don't cover your ass with "Oh, it's coming out in a minute." When everyone else's order took 25 minutes, that one unremarkable meal really shouldn't take 50.

This happened at Carrabba's the last time the whole side of my husband's immediate family (13 of us) ate there. My BIL had already had two bad experiences with this restaurant, and the third time was the charm. Everyone else had already gotten their food and finished by the time his lasagna came out.* He was not pleased.

*Of course we waited until everyone was served. Once we realized my BIL's food would be a bit late in coming out, he urged us all to start eating. Little did we know....

[tdn]

This happened at Carrabba's the last time the whole side of my husband's immediate family (13 of us) ate there.

Happened to me twice, both when I was in a group of six. In one of those cases, I was the one whose meal was forgotten. Naturally, we had tickets to a play that night.

There was another time when two of us went into a place and ordered. We waited and waited and waited. After about 30 minutes, a guy came in, sat down, ordered, got his meal, ate, paid his check, and left. And we were still waiting. Was his order a lot simpler than mine? No. It was the exact same thing.

[Enderw24]

8. Do not interrupt a conversation. For any reason. Especially not to recite specials. Wait for the right moment.

Seriously? Interrupt me. I'd much rather order for 30 seconds and be done with it than wind up a 20 minute conversation to realize we haven't even seen our waiter yet.

[taxi78cab]

I like #8:
Do not interrupt a conversation. For any reason. Especially not to recite specials. Wait for the right moment.

I have had WAY too many waiters recently interrupt my conversation to say "How is everything?" GRRRRRRRRR. DO NOT interrupt the conversation at the table just to ask how we are.

[JSexton]

Seriously? Interrupt me. I'd much rather order for 30 seconds and be done with it than wind up a 20 minute conversation to realize we haven't even seen our waiter yet.

There's got to be a happy medium. You could approach the table, and see if you can make eye contact with the speaker. If they break off their story with a look of "we're ready to order", there you go. If they look away and go back to their tale, then wander away and come back in a few. It's not that hard.

[ivylass]

There was another time when two of us went into a place and ordered. We waited and waited and waited. After about 30 minutes, a guy came in, sat down, ordered, got his meal, ate, paid his check, and left. And we were still waiting. Was his order a lot simpler than mine? No. It was the exact same thing.

I don't understand this. Did you not ask the server? Did you not ask to speak to a manager? You just sat by and hoped someone noticed you?

[JSexton]

I should add, my only issue with the list is the germophobic stuff. Never let the water pitcher touch the glass? Bwuh? If it's not clean enough for that, then why the hell are you drinking the water that came out of it? Never touch the rim of the glass? I guess avoiding that is fine, but god, if the wait staff aren't washing their hands, the rim of your drinking glass is the least of your problems.

[Ludovic]

I should add, my only issue with the list is the germophobic stuff. Never let the water pitcher touch the glass? Bwuh? If it's not clean enough for that, then why the hell are you drinking the water that came out of it? Never touch the rim of the glass? I guess avoiding that is fine, but god, if the wait staff aren't washing their hands, the rim of your drinking glass is the least of your problems.Sure, the water pitcher is clean if it hasn't touched anyone else's glass before yours. What are the chances you're the first person the waitstaff has done that to today?

[gigi]

I should add, my only issue with the list is the germophobic stuff. Never let the water pitcher touch the glass? Bwuh? If it's not clean enough for that, then why the hell are you drinking the water that came out of it? Never touch the rim of the glass? I guess avoiding that is fine, but god, if the wait staff aren't washing their hands, the rim of your drinking glass is the least of your problems.

It could be they don't want it to pick up germs from one glass and spread them to someone else's?

[tdn]

Did you not ask the server? Did you not ask to speak to a manager?

Repeatedly and assertively.

ETA: The place went out of business about a month later.

[gigi]

<< 23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer, etc. >>

Holy crap, really? I guess I can see this as an above-and-beyond thing, but as a habitual thing to be expected when someone says they liked the wine??

[ivylass]

Karma's a bitch, ain't it, tdn?

Ivylad and I recently ate at an Italian non-chain restaurant. I was enjoying a decaf latte after the meal when he asked, "Are you wearing lipstick?"

I said no, whereupon he turned my latte cup around to show a lovely lipstick stain on the rim.

The server didn't seem all that shook up about it, and while I did get a new cup of latte in a clean cup, he didn't offer to comp it, nor did a manager come by to apologize. So while the meal was tasty, I doubt we'll be back. If there's lipstick on the rim of a coffee cup, what else isn't coming clean?

[overlyverbose]

I'm a little confused as to why the waitperson isn't supposed to announce his or her name. Does that mean they shouldn't introduce themselves to the table? That seems kind of awkward if a patron is attempting to get the waitstaff's attention.

Then again, one of my biggest pet peeves is when the manager or someone else just shows up at your table to ask how everything is without introducing him or herself or at least telling the table how they're affiliated with the restaurant. For all I know it could be the guy from a few tables over. Even if they're not supposed to say their name, couldn't they say, "Hi, I'm the manager to Craptacular Foods. Is the food to your liking?"

[Gus Gusterson]

I'm a little confused as to why the waitperson isn't supposed to announce his or her name. Does that mean they shouldn't introduce themselves to the table? That seems kind of awkward if a patron is attempting to get the waitstaff's attention. Their name doesn't matter. If you speak to someone else on the restaurant's staff about them, they'll know who you're talking about by what table you're sitting at. If you see them, you get their attention by making eye contact or by saying "Excuse me". You never have a need to use their name. If you care, ask, but introducing themselves is a folksy touch many of us could do without.

[tdn]

Karma's a bitch, ain't it, tdn?

Yeah, didn't see that one coming.

The sad thing is, the food was pretty decent.

[tdn]

Their name doesn't matter. If you speak to someone else on the restaurant's staff about them, they'll know who you're talking about by what table you're sitting at. If you see them, you get their attention by making eye contact or by saying "Excuse me". You never have a need to use their name. If you care, ask, but introducing themselves is a folksy touch many of us could do without.

I can think of one situation where it would have been useful.

I went for a quick breakfast at a local place, and when I got there the place was almost empty. By the time I finished, there was not one available table. I tried to get my waitress's attention, but couldn't. I tried eye contact, I tried "excuse me", I tried chasing her down. Nothing worked.

I finally brought my check to the host station, saying that I needed to pay and get out. The host asked me who my waitress was, and I said "the blonde one." He argued that there were no blonde waitresses on that day. We then got into a debate about what constitutes blonde.

We finally got it sorted out, but man, that bordered on surreal.

[ZipperJJ]

People should just show up at restaurants with placards announcing the things they would like and not like the server to do. That really seems to be the only way that everyone who eats at any restaurant will be completely happy with their server.

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

Seriously? Interrupt me. I'd much rather order for 30 seconds and be done with it than wind up a 20 minute conversation to realize we haven't even seen our waiter yet.

I wonder if Rule 51 will tell the maitre d' how to explain to walk-ins that there's a four hour wait for a table because the waitstaff are under orders not to bother customers by getting their order in and making Precious Restaurateur some money.

[garygnu]

We've had discussions here about it, but the #41 restriction on the phrase "No problem" hits me as incredibly condescending.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Overall, sounds like a place I'd like to eat. There are certainly some rules on there that I wouldn't bother with, but there are some ("don't touch the customers") that I heartily approve of.

Their name doesn't matter. If you speak to someone else on the restaurant's staff about them, they'll know who you're talking about by what table you're sitting at. If you see them, you get their attention by making eye contact or by saying "Excuse me". You never have a need to use their name. If you care, ask, but introducing themselves is a folksy touch many of us could do without.Zippy's got a point there. Nonetheless, I disagree with you, Gus. When my server is standing or walking nearby, facing in the other direction, I don't want to loudly say, "Excuse me," and have half the restaurant turn and look at me. I'd rather be able to say, "Excuse me, Sarah" to get her attention.

[Scarlett67]

I wonder if Rule 51 will tell the maitre d' how to explain to walk-ins that there's a four hour wait for a table because the waitstaff are under orders not to bother customers by getting their order in and making Precious Restaurateur some money.

There is a way to get my attention without interrupting me. Simply come to the table and make eye contact. DON'T simply start talking over me.

I'd like to add to the list, don't address two grown women as "girls." This happened just the other day when I took my mother out for lunch on her 65th birthday, and from both the man who seated us and the waitress. Presumably it's status quo there. (She chose the restaurant.) Talk about condescending.

(I'm not a fan of "no problem" either. I know it's idiom, but it puts a bad taste in my mouth to suggest that a simple request could somehow BE a problem. "You're welcome" is just a tad more classy, yes?)

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

There is a way to get my attention without interrupting me. Simply come to the table and make eye contact. DON'T simply start talking over me.

I think you miss the point. Just because you're paying $30 for tilapia, you don't get the run of the house. At all caliber of restaurants I go to, I expect courteous service, but I also don't fool myself about the realities of the business or that the $30 rents me a table for the night.

Frankly, these rules sound exactly what I would imagine a Broadway producer qua dilettante restaurateur who's never seen the business end of food service would come up with. Somebody ought to tell him that in these sorts of arrangements, the producer lends his fame and fortune, and the GM takes care of everything else.

[devilsknew]

Hey I got a better idea... instead of this list, why doesn't the "Restauranteur" who compiled this list just neuroprogram a bunch of mute, eunuchs Clockwork Orange style and insure that all of his customers get a homogenous, personality free, automaton service.

[Scarlett67]

I think you miss the point. Just because you're paying $30 for tilapia, you don't get the run of the house. At all caliber of restaurants I go to, I expect courteous service, but I also don't fool myself about the realities of the business or that the $30 rents me a table for the night.

I didn't say I expected the run of the house. I simply ask that the waiter not come to the table and start talking over me. At least let me finish a sentence, for Christ's sake. That's just basic courtesy.

And before you accuse me of it, no, I don't linger if the place is busy. I've worked in restaurants too, and I understand the economics just fine. I have, however, wondered if I was going to have to eat my lunch standing up in a small, crowded cafe with all tables occupied while at least three parties lingered, chatting over long-empty dishes and coffee cups, oblivious to their surroundings. In similar conditions in the same cafe, we eat and get out.

[Mama Zappa]

<< 23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer, etc. >>

Holy crap, really? I guess I can see this as an above-and-beyond thing, but as a habitual thing to be expected when someone says they liked the wine??
Yeah - that one is pretty ridiculous.

Write the info down, sure. Dig up a device to steam a label off a bottle? What a waste of time unless your restaurant is Very High End and has the appropriate equipment Right There - as in about as difficult to access / use as the coffeemaker.

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

The server didn't seem all that shook up about it, and while I did get a new cup of latte in a clean cup, he didn't offer to comp it, nor did a manager come by to apologize. So while the meal was tasty, I doubt we'll be back. If there's lipstick on the rim of a coffee cup, what else isn't coming clean?
I am not defending this, but lipstick can last on a glass through a restaurant-quality dishwasher. It probably was otherwise clean. Actually, I grew up with a dishwasher, and if it left a spot of food on a plate, I always told myself, "well, if it didn't come off in the dishwasher, then it won't come off when I'm eating." (I'm more picky now.)


41. Saying, “No problem” is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity or sarcasm. “My pleasure” or “You’re welcome” will do.:rolleyes:

27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or prefer the waiter to pour. This pisses me off to no end, because I'll drink whatever is in my glass, so if someone else refills my wine glass, I will probably drink more than I mean to.


3. Never refuse to seat three guests because a fourth has not yet arrived.

He doesn't want restaurants to make money?

[ianzin]

I like most of the list, but I think the 'no name' rule is just plain wrong.

Every source I know of, to do with good rapport, good selling or good marketing practice, suggests that the move from anonymous roles (me salesman, you customer) to first names is a step in the right direction. It's warmer, more human, and it conveys a sense of personal responsibility.

Let me make a distinction. I'm not talking about the way a TGI Friday's worker droid will recite a set speech with a rictus grin. That's just fake.

But if a staffer actually talks to me like a real human being, and includes his or her name as part of the 'I will be looking after you this evening' speech, I think it's a good move. It suggests to me that he or she is taking some personal responsibility for making sure my experience is a good one.

It's also how I want to relate to servers. I want to treat them like people, not just anonymous slaves doing my bidding. I like them to know that I'm aware how hard the job is, that I appreciate their work, and that I am more than happy to tip generously in return for good service and to mention to the manager on the way out that they did a great job.

[Zjestika]

I like this one:

21. Never serve anything that looks creepy or runny or wrong.


I also like how this was was directly opposite a photo of the author Bruce Buschel who himself looks creepy and runny and wrong. :)

Overall the list seems fine to me, but one thing I always wondered as a server was what I was supposed to call people. Women hate "you guys" or "girls" or "ladies," men also hate "you guys," and "gentlemen" is weird to say, and there's no plural for mixed groups (except "you guys"or "folks"). Other than excising the plural entirely what's a server to do?

[Mama Zappa]

Karma's a bitch, ain't it, tdn?

Ivylad and I recently ate at an Italian non-chain restaurant. I was enjoying a decaf latte after the meal when he asked, "Are you wearing lipstick?"

I said no, whereupon he turned my latte cup around to show a lovely lipstick stain on the rim.

The server didn't seem all that shook up about it, and while I did get a new cup of latte in a clean cup, he didn't offer to comp it, nor did a manager come by to apologize. So while the meal was tasty, I doubt we'll be back. If there's lipstick on the rim of a coffee cup, what else isn't coming clean?
Blech! That's such an OBVIOUS thing, at the very least the server should have noticed it when he was bringing it!

Some years back, there was a sit-down restaurant at a mall near us. One of several locations of a small chain. We had several decent meals there over the course of a year or two, but we could tell it was getting less and less traffic. The last time we went there... you know the kids' drinks a lot of chains like Ruby Tuesday etc. have? the plastic cup with firmly-snapped-on lid, with a hole for a pretty robust straw (as in, not a 1.49 for a hundred disposable)... Well, the waiter brought my kid such a drink.

Which would have been fine...

except the straw had clearly already been used, and had been CHEWED UP.

I made them bring me a replacement, and that was the last time I ate there. It was gone a month or two later.

[bouv]

That list is clearly written by someone who not only has never worked in food service, but deems the "lowly waitstaff" to be beneath them, at that. The little gem about not wanting servers to give out names is fucking ridiculous.

And some of those things on that list servers are required to do. Where I work, we get weekly "shoppers" who come in and evaluate the service. We don't know who they are, but we have steps we have to do, and those steps include:
Say our name
As if they've been in before
Suggest a drink, appetizer, entree, and dessert by name
Check back within 5 minutes of them getting their meal

And some more things, too, but those are just the ones that are in direct violation of this guy's little "rules."

A lot of people, and I notice it here a lot, have unrealistic expectations when they go out. The fact is, you're not my only table (usually,) and I have other shit I have to do, like roll silverware, or make sure the salad dressing station is clean, etc... I don't have time to sort of hover close by, hoping someone will look up from their food/conversation to make "eye contact" indicating that I can go over. And I guess it's good that everyone here has psychic powers, cause there are a lot of people out there that make eye contact for no reason and are still deep in conversation.

i try to be as polite as I can, but at some point I'm probably going to have to interrupt you, and talk to you when you have food in your mother. Get over it. If that's the worst thing that happens to you, then it sounds like you have a pretty good night.

[Mister Rik]

I've never had any issue with "no problem". Plenty of other languages use similar phrases in response to "thank you". Spanish de nada, "it's nothing"; I can't remember the corresponding Japanese phrase, but it too translates, "it was nothing". I've actually always wondered what, exactly, does "you're welcome" mean? I'm welcome to what? Ask you to do it again, I guess? Personally, if saying "no problem" is indeed a problem, a better phrase would be "It was my pleasure." It makes more sense than "you're welcome".

Interesting that several people in the comments misunderstood the bit about "don't call a woman 'lady'". In the context ("don't call men 'dude'"), it seemed clear to me that it was referring to addressing a woman with "Hey, lady!"

I'm on the fence re: taking one person's empty plate away before everybody is finished. My personal preference is, "I'm done with this — get it out of my way." Once I'm done eating I'd like to be able to fold my hands on the table in front of me if I feel like it, something I can't do with a dirty plate in front of me. Part of my reason is a minor back problem - my back gets really stiff if I'm forced to sit in one position for too long, so I like to be able to lean back in my chair or lean forward with my forearms (not my elbows!) on the table as necessary.

But then, I strenuously avoid eating with other people as much as I can. That's really just a personality quirk on my part; I like to eat my food while it's still hot, so when my food is placed in front of me I shut up and eat it. Plus, I'm one who eats for nourishment, not for the social experience. I find myself endlessly frustrated by dining companions who get their food and then leave it practically untouched while they yammer on and on. Trying to eat and converse at the same time is an exercise in frustration for me, since somebody always says something I'm expected to respond to just as I've taken a big bite of something. So I'd rather suspend the conversation for the time it takes to eat, then pick it up afterward.

[Trepa Mayfield]

18. Know before approaching a table who has ordered what. Do not ask, “Who’s having the shrimp?”

Huh. I love that part of going to a restaurant. That's the group's opportunity to ooh and aah and wonder at the food before it's on the table.

[bouv]

Huh. I love that part of going to a restaurant. That's the group's opportunity to ooh and aah and wonder at the food before it's on the table.

I never "auction off" ( as well call it) the food for my own parties, with a few exceptions (if it's a large party, like over 8 people, I probably won't remember everything.) Or if there are similar orders (same steak, different side) and I can't recall if I placed the plates on my arms in the "correct" order or not.

But if I am running food for someone else, I often auction them off, since people might have moved around since the order was placed. What I don't ever understand, though, is how quickly people forget what they ordered. i can't tell you the number of times I am standing there, arms loaded up with four heavy plates of food, asking who had the salmon, and have everyone stare at me like I grew a second head. Finally, since I always try to put the food for "seat one" by itself in my right hand, I just place it there and hope for the best.

Seriously, if you can't be arsed to remember what you ordered, is it really fair to expect the server to?

[Mister Rik]

That list is clearly written by someone who not only has never worked in food service
Heh. His little bio there says this:

"Bruce Buschel — an author, magazine writer, co-creator of an Off Broadway musical, and director/producer of jazz films — writes about his latest venture: building and starting a seafood restaurant."

Yeeeaaah... clearly fully qualified to enter the restaurant business :rolleyes: One of the changes I've noticed in my 2+ decades in the business is that, where local restaurants used to be owned and run by actual restaurant people — cooks/chefs/waiters who spent years working in the industry before starting up their own, nowadays more and more restaurants are being opened by people who were successful and made their money in a completely unrelated industry, and now they think it would be cool to own a restaurant. And too many of those people have a fantasy idea of how a restaurant works. The ones I've seen have success in restaurants are the ones who are clever/non-egotistical enough to accept that they don't know the business, and so they hire people with experience and let them do their jobs. The failures are the ones who think their success in another industry will automatically translate to success in restaurants, and try to micromanage everything.

And some of those things on that list servers are required to do. Where I work, we get weekly "shoppers" who come in and evaluate the service. We don't know who they are, but we have steps we have to do, and those steps include:
Say our name
As if they've been in before
Suggest a drink, appetizer, entree, and dessert by name
Check back within 5 minutes of them getting their meal

Continuing from above, most of these rules/procedures are devised by corporate bean counters and marketing people, not actual restaurant people.

cause there are a lot of people out there that make eye contact for no reason and are still deep in conversation.
True. I'll dispute the "no reason" bit, though.

<creepy old man>
I may not be ready to order, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to ogle the waitresses! :D
</creepy old man>

[OleOneEye]

and talk to you when you have food in your mother.

Sounds kinky.

(If it ain't one thing, it's your mother..)

[drastic_quench]

Blech! That's such an OBVIOUS thing, at the very least the server should have noticed it when he was bringing it!

Some years back, there was a sit-down restaurant at a mall near us. One of several locations of a small chain. We had several decent meals there over the course of a year or two, but we could tell it was getting less and less traffic. The last time we went there... you know the kids' drinks a lot of chains like Ruby Tuesday etc. have? the plastic cup with firmly-snapped-on lid, with a hole for a pretty robust straw (as in, not a 1.49 for a hundred disposable)... Well, the waiter brought my kid such a drink.

Which would have been fine...

except the straw had clearly already been used, and had been CHEWED UP.

I made them bring me a replacement, and that was the last time I ate there. It was gone a month or two later.
I've seen this from both the front and back of restaurants. Their defense is, "we run them through the dishwasher!". Blech, indeed.

[drastic_quench]

Don't ask, "Have you been to [restaurant name] before?" and then launch into an explanation of how your restaurant is unique. Your restaurant is not unique unless you are going to get under the table and blow me. Then your restaurant is unique and I would like to hear more about it. After you're done blowing me.
I've never considered this before, but I agree. In my experience the "unique quality" at most boils down to serving food on a large family-style platter.

"Have you been to _________ before?"

"No, but I thoroughly researched it on Wikipedia just before we arrived."

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Write the info down, sure. Dig up a device to steam a label off a bottle? What a waste of time unless your restaurant is Very High End and has the appropriate equipment Right There - as in about as difficult to access / use as the coffeemaker.Granted, I think this particular item is over-the-top. However, I have removed many a label when re-using bottles (I used to homebrew beer a lot), and I've found that if your sink puts out really hot water, just holding the bottle under the running water for a moment will usually cause the label to slide right off. No special equipment required.

Overall the list seems fine to me, but one thing I always wondered as a server was what I was supposed to call people. Women hate "you guys" or "girls" or "ladies," men also hate "you guys," and "gentlemen" is weird to say, and there's no plural for mixed groups (except "you guys"or "folks"). Other than excising the plural entirely what's a server to do?Well, "you" is a plural, after all, and if you're not looking any one individual in the eye, the meaning should be clear. If not, recast the sentence:

Would anyone like a drink?
What would you all like for starters? (note: that's "you all" -- not "y'all")
Is everyone's dinner okay?

[Shakes]

7. Do not announce your name. No jokes, no flirting, no cuteness

Having been married to a bartender and dating a few; I find this statement very amusing. Obviously the author isn't at all interested in making any tip money.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Truthfully, I don't care what my server's name is, and unless s/he leaves a little card or other note on the table, I'm not going to remember it in five minutes. When I eat out, I want to get out of the house, and eat stuff that I normally wouldn't bother to cook. I'm not there to strike up a personal relationship with the server. I acknowledge that s/he's human, but I'm not looking to make friends, at least not in the first interaction. I actually have become friends with some servers, and ask after their family members, for instance. But unless I get the same server with some regularity, I'm not going to remember his/her name. Really. I just want my food served properly, and I don't need my arm rubbed while I'm ordering.

[matt_mcl]

I didn't say I expected the run of the house. I simply ask that the waiter not come to the table and start talking over me. At least let me finish a sentence, for Christ's sake. That's just basic courtesy.

I swear that certain waiters have the preternatural ability to break in with "Is everything okay?" at the precise moment when I am about to get to the punch line of a joke. Without eavesdropping, I can tell when someone whose attention I'm trying to get has gotten to the end of an utterance.

[Maiira]

Most of these are okay advice, but some of them, like another poster suggested, actually go against restaurant policy. My advice for waitstaff would be to follow your work's policy, NOT that of some blogger.

Also...

41. Saying, “No problem” is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity or sarcasm. “My pleasure” or “You’re welcome” will do.

A tone of insincerity or sarcasm? Where the hell does this idea come from? I've never, ever seen this phrase as anything other than another way to say "you're welcome." I think this guy needs to get over himself.

[Antinor01]

I'll offer a #52. (or 55, 70, whatever). Never sit down at the table while taking orders. I seriously hate that.

[Nava]

Many of those things are different in different locations/price ranges/countries/whatever (I don't expect the same behavior from a waiter in Chicote and from one in Applebee's), others are the writer's personal pet peeves, but I don't understand this one:

27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or prefer the waiter to pour.

Why for red wine only?

[Mister Rik]

Why for red wine only?

I'm not much of a wine drinker, but I'm going to guess it has something to do with sediments that are commonly present in red wines, but not in whites.

[brickbacon]

That list is clearly written by someone who not only has never worked in food service, but deems the "lowly waitstaff" to be beneath them, at that. The little gem about not wanting servers to give out names is fucking ridiculous.

Agreed. My personal favorite:

4. If a table is not ready within a reasonable length of time, offer a free drink and/or amuse-bouche. The guests may be tired and hungry and thirsty, and they did everything right.

It's not the advice that bothers me, but the fact that an author thinks the average restaurant goer knows what an amuse-bouche is, or would feel entitled to one for having to wait a long time. Honestly, when someone is that unfamiliar with the common man I have to wonder whether it's intentional.

[Mister Rik]

It's not the advice that bothers me, but the fact that an author thinks the average restaurant goer knows what an amuse-bouche is, or would feel entitled to one for having to wait a long time. Honestly, when someone is that unfamiliar with the common man I have to wonder whether it's intentional.

It appears to something commonly served in the type of restaurants I can't imagine ever being able to afford to patronize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amuse-bouche).

[Kimmy_Gibbler]

What would you all like for starters? (note: that's "you all" -- not "y'all")


Actually, in English, we say "all of you," not "you all," and certainly not its contraction "y'all."

[madmonk28]

I believe the author is the owner of a restaurant and these are the rules he uses for the running of his business. He is setting a tone and holding his staff to a high standard, that's his right.

[madmonk28]

Missed the edit window, but this is the first sentence of the article: "Herewith is a modest list of dos and don’ts for servers at the seafood restaurant I am building."

Of course his staff is going to know what an amuse-bouche is, I'm sure amuse-bouche will be on the menu.

[Nava]

Amuse-bouches should NOT be on the menu, they're a little bit to eat that's on the house. Those little dishes with peanuts are the "couldn't afford no private school" version of amuse-bouches. The wikipedia definition talks only about the "posh" version, but that's like someone claiming that the huevos rancheros from Casa Pancho aren't "proper."

[madmonk28]

Fine, on the menu was a poor choice of words. How about "offered by the restaurant." My point being that it is something a restaurant owner would expect his staff to know about since it is offered by his establishment.

[NineToTheSky]

5. Tables should be level without anyone asking. Fix it before guests are seated.
A major irritant for me are tables that wobble. I'm amazed at how often I come across this, and end up having to wedge bits of paper under one of the legs.

[Martini Enfield]

Their name doesn't matter. If you speak to someone else on the restaurant's staff about them, they'll know who you're talking about by what table you're sitting at. If you see them, you get their attention by making eye contact or by saying "Excuse me". You never have a need to use their name. If you care, ask, but introducing themselves is a folksy touch many of us could do without.

I agree completely.

[Princhester]

A basic issue here is that there are different sorts of restaurants, and the list is written for one sort, and some of you are criticising it for not being a suitable list for another sort.

We eat with the children at one neighbourhood restaurant almost every Saturday. We know the owners' names and vice versa and their more regular waitress likewise. If the waitress acted all formal and proper it would be just unnatural and wrong, given what regulars we are, and vice versa.

Contrastingly, when my wife and I go out to a really nice formal restaurant, what Lyn, Gus and Martini said. I have no wish to be rude to the waitstaff, and I certainly want to give and get a basic level of good manners. I will (truly) appreciate the waitstaff as humans with real skill and ability at their job if they are there when I need them for what I need them for, but they make a conscious decision not to behave in a way that requires me to be particularly human towards them.

The basic rules of human interaction mean that once someone introduces themselves as "Sally" and makes chatty comments at me I have to either interact back, or feel like a heel for freezing them out. I have nothing against Sally but I just didn't come here to interact with her at all apart from to order etc, and every moment I'm doing that is time I am not interacting with my wife/client etc which is what I came to the restaurant to do.

[Audrey Levins]

As a bartender, I often refill rather than replace my customers' glasses....but that's because I'm within eyesight. (And a lot of older drinkers are very attached to their "already seasoned" ice and glass.)

As a waiter, however, I always brought a fresh one, just because it's one less leg on my journey back to my section. (And the health dpt. has no issue with refilling a glass within the customer's eyesight...it's when the glass wanders off into the back that they have an issue with it. No, I don't recall why--been awhile since I was a waiter!)

And as for the lipstick on the glass--sorry, but I've never seen a commercial dishwasher that can remove all-day lipstick, I don't care if the damn thing gets up to a billion degrees. That stuff just won't come off.

In a perfect world, each glass would be hand-inspected and polished, of course. And maybe that happens in the type of restaurant this guy plans on opening. I'm sure it happens in the kinds of places I never eat.

In the real world--in the average restaurant--somebody's screaming for ranch and their check and their kids' dinner and another margarita, and their waiter isn't looking at the stacks of glassware for lipstick. They're just shoving ice and Coke into them and running as fast as they can.

There's a reason I always avoided working fine-dining. I don't really like the people who like fine dining. :D

[Floater]

32. Never touch a customer. No excuses. Do not do it. Do not brush them, move them, wipe them or dust them.
So a waitress at my local shouldn't have poked me in the midriff like she did the other day? I thought it was a cute gesture. ;)

I've never had any issue with "no problem". Plenty of other languages use similar phrases in response to "thank you". Spanish de nada, "it's nothing"; I can't remember the corresponding Japanese phrase, but it too translates, "it was nothing". I've actually always wondered what, exactly, does "you're welcome" mean? I'm welcome to what? Ask you to do it again, I guess? Personally, if saying "no problem" is indeed a problem, a better phrase would be "It was my pleasure." It makes more sense than "you're welcome".
OK, I'm not a native English speaker, but I wouldn't have any problems with "No problems". "It was my pleasure", on the other hand, reminds me of the slick waiter at a semi-posh restaurant in Columbus who greeted us with something like "Good evening, my name is xxxx, and I will be you waiter tonight" and then started to introduce some item that wasn't on the menu. I found him very intrusive.
4. If a table is not ready within a reasonable length of time, offer a free drink and/or amuse-bouche. The guests may be tired and hungry and thirsty, and they did everything right.
A barman I know once told me that what customers order while waiting for a table is a big part of the income of the restaurant he works at.

[gigi]

Hey I got a better idea... instead of this list, why doesn't the "Restauranteur" who compiled this list just neuroprogram a bunch of mute, eunuchs Clockwork Orange style and insure that all of his customers get a homogenous, personality free, automaton service.

Darn, everyone was doing so well spelling it restaurateur and then this. ;)

[tdn]

I didn't say I expected the run of the house. I simply ask that the waiter not come to the table and start talking over me. At least let me finish a sentence, for Christ's sake. That's just basic courtesy.

Have you ever been in a conversation with someone who never ends a sentence? Or where there is no gap between people's sentences? It's been my experience that in most conversations, there is NEVER a convenient time to break in. I'm now in the habit, if I'm in a social situation like a party or bar, to just walk up to a group and introduce myself. Hovering near a group hoping they'll notice me and stop talking never works at best, and is creepy at worst. If I was a server, I'd learn that my first night.

[norinew]

I'll offer a #52. (or 55, 70, whatever). Never sit down at the table while taking orders. I seriously hate that.
A no-snark-intended, serious question for you: what if the server asks permission before sitting down? I travel pretty frequently for business. I usually ask for a booth so I can quietly do my book-keeping, make notes, etc. while I'm waiting for my food. About half the time (especially if it is a male server), the server will ask if I mind if they sit down while taking my order. I don't mind. I'm by myself and enjoy a little bit of company (no interest in making a Friend For Life, or anything). But I always get the impression, from their tone, that they wouldn't be (or at least act) in the least offended if they said "Do you mind if I sit?" (usually gesturing the opposite side of the booth), and I said "Actually, I'd rather you didn't".

Do you still consider that rude? I can understand how it could be construed as intrusive. Doesn't bother me a bit, especially if the waiter is an attractive, charming male. Yes, I know he's not really flirting with me (I'm happily married anyway); but it makes a fun little "escape" for a few minutes.;)

[elbows]

I have worked in service most of my adult life and I have found that restaurant owners who create a long list of hard and fast rules are shooting themselves in the foot and it always ends up working against them.

You may have noticed that people come in endless varieties, as do their needs. The servers job is to know when it's appropriate to refer to people as 'fellas' or as 'gentlemen'. To know when people are in a hurry and not interested in interaction and when people are into a little fun back and forth with their server. When to flatter, when to be overtly formal and restrained.

When you stop your servers from exercising the skills you hired them for you are not helping, you're hurting!

Lipstick on a glass, server's fault, they should have seen it.

Food looks like crap, server's fault. The rule is 'looks good, tastes bad - cooks fault, looks bad, tastes bad - server's fault!'

A whole lot of things are out of the server's control in a restaurant, these two are not.

Meals get forgotten from time to time, in restaurants, especially easy with a large party. Stuff happens. The server's job is to appease the customer. Tell them a lie if need be, but make them aware, don't just leave them in the dark. "I'm so sorry but....it was dropped by the busboy, I noticed the plate was dirty, I noticed it was burned on the edge, so I sent it back, please accept my apologies. Can I get you anything while you're awaiting the replacement, some rolls, a salad, again my apologies, there is a rush on it and it should only take a few more moments..." Like that.

There are not hard and fast rules, or, there shouldn't be, because customers come in every imaginable stripe. The server's job is to give them what they came for, both food and service wise.

[tdn]

Amen, elbows.

[Minnie Luna]

I have worked in service most of my adult life and I have found that restaurant owners who create a long list of hard and fast rules are shooting themselves in the foot and it always ends up working against them.

You may have noticed that people come in endless varieties, as do their needs. The servers job is to know when it's appropriate to refer to people as 'fellas' or as 'gentlemen'. To know when people are in a hurry and not interested in interaction and when people are into a little fun back and forth with their server. When to flatter, when to be overtly formal and restrained.

When you stop your servers from exercising the skills you hired them for you are not helping, you're hurting!

Lipstick on a glass, server's fault, they should have seen it.

Food looks like crap, server's fault. The rule is 'looks good, tastes bad - cooks fault, looks bad, tastes bad - server's fault!'

A whole lot of things are out of the server's control in a restaurant, these two are not.

Meals get forgotten from time to time, in restaurants, especially easy with a large party. Stuff happens. The server's job is to appease the customer. Tell them a lie if need be, but make them aware, don't just leave them in the dark. "I'm so sorry but....it was dropped by the busboy, I noticed the plate was dirty, I noticed it was burned on the edge, so I sent it back, please accept my apologies. Can I get you anything while you're awaiting the replacement, some rolls, a salad, again my apologies, there is a rush on it and it should only take a few more moments..." Like that.

There are not hard and fast rules, or, there shouldn't be, because customers come in every imaginable stripe. The server's job is to give them what they came for, both food and service wise.

Very much agree. I worked for a family owned restaurant while in college.

A large number of my customers were regulars. I knew who to flirt with and who not to. I knew who had a fit if you gave him sour cream with his baked potato. I loved serving regulars, whether or not I liked them, I at least knew their habits. I had one cantankerous old couple. He liked things a certain way. I made sure that I remembered his habits and made sure we saved an end piece of prime rib for him on Friday nights.

When a party with small children came in, I always asked if they wanted me to serve the children first. I can easily put a rush on a grilled cheese and fries and have it served with the salads if it makes a parent (and child) happy.

Everyone has a different expectation for their meal when they enter a restaurant. It is up to the server to tailor their services for each customer. Good servers are able to do this.

[Antinor01]

A no-snark-intended, serious question for you: what if the server asks permission before sitting down? I travel pretty frequently for business. I usually ask for a booth so I can quietly do my book-keeping, make notes, etc. while I'm waiting for my food. About half the time (especially if it is a male server), the server will ask if I mind if they sit down while taking my order. I don't mind. I'm by myself and enjoy a little bit of company (no interest in making a Friend For Life, or anything). But I always get the impression, from their tone, that they wouldn't be (or at least act) in the least offended if they said "Do you mind if I sit?" (usually gesturing the opposite side of the booth), and I said "Actually, I'd rather you didn't".

Do you still consider that rude? I can understand how it could be construed as intrusive. Doesn't bother me a bit, especially if the waiter is an attractive, charming male. Yes, I know he's not really flirting with me (I'm happily married anyway); but it makes a fun little "escape" for a few minutes.;)

Yes because it is a highly presumptuous question. There is never a reason, short of a medical emergency, for a server to sit at a customers table. I don't care if he is gods gift to women and gay men.

[tdn]

elbows, Minnie Luna, and whoever else spent a long time as a server, I like your ideas of being able to intuit a group of patrons. When to flirt and when not to, for instance.

Serious question -- are you able to predict when there will be a natural break in a conversation? I'm interested in your take on interrupting.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

In all my years of food service, I never saw a server sit down to take an order. That sounds really bizarre to me. And it's completely inappropriate to ask.

I agree that most of the list in the OP just sounds snotty and classist and entitled. Some of the items on the list are really nitpicky ("Don't serve the wine in an ice bucket?" "Don't talk to other servers?" Go fuck yourself). Some are outside the servers control ("Don't serve anything creepy?" WTF does that mean, and how is the server responsible for it?). Some are things that wouldn't happen anyway.

The level of social superiority some people feel entitled to over the promise of a 5 dollar tip is ridiculous. The guy who wrote this list is begging to have his drink stirred with somebody's dick.

Somebody should write a list of rules for the customers. THOSE are the real assholes.

[norinew]

Yes because it is a highly presumptuous question. There is never a reason, short of a medical emergency, for a server to sit at a customers table. I don't care if he is gods gift to women and gay men.
OK, I can understand this. It doesn't bother me, personally, but I can see where it could upset someone else. :)

[tdn]

Somebody should write a list of rules for the customers. THOSE are the real assholes.

See other thread.

Waitstaff asking to sit down? That's so outside of my experience that I'm having trouble even picturing it.

[Freudian Slit]

We've had discussions here about it, but the #41 restriction on the phrase "No problem" hits me as incredibly condescending.

Me too. I don't get it. But seeing people get apoplectic over something so innocuous is hilarious. It's like getting pissy over "Good day" because someone somewhere is having a bad one. I do get a sense of satisfaction out of using, "No problem" because there really is nothing wrong with it but I know someone somewhere is pissed.
2. Do not make a singleton feel bad. Do not say, “Are you waiting for someone?” Ask for a reservation. Ask if he or she would like to sit at the bar.

Oh, come on, if asking, "Are you waiting for someone" is making them feel bad, then they shouldn't leave the house without smelling salts. I suppose you could say, "Table for one?" but if someone says "Are you waiting for someone" who cares?

[Freudian Slit]

Edit window over, sorry.

35. Do not eat or drink in plain view of guests.

Maybe at a super high end restaurant, but...I don't know. Lots of times I see waiters/waitresses who are off duty but are eating a meal. At the Chinese place I go to a lot the woman in front who seats people or takes the orders does that...and lots of other times I've seen this.

This whole thing feels so gross. I agree with Dio. It reeks of, "You are here to SERVE." Maybe I'm overly sensitive since I just watched a bit of Edwardian Manor House (the PBS show) this weekend, and am smarting from all the creepy "Servants should impale themselves rather than do anything that MIGHT offend their masters" vibe.

[tdn]

Oh, come on, if asking, "Are you waiting for someone" is making them feel bad, then they shouldn't leave the house without smelling salts. I suppose you could say, "Table for one?" but if someone says "Are you waiting for someone" who cares?

The best way is "How many?" That's about all I ever hear.

[elbows]

If it's rockin' busy, like at lunch, I really don't have time to wait for a natural break in the conversation. And, truth is, I'm not there to ask if everything is okay so much as present myself at your disposal if there is anything you forgot to ask for, find you need, have a question regarding, etc.

Customers largely can see you're rockin' busy. Big smile, when they look up, whether or not they are still speaking, "Sorry, everything okay?", they nod, and I'm gone, they resume their conversation without pause. With a little practice it's not that hard.

If they clearly find this interruption untimely, it will be evident, they won't make eye contact or pause their conversation, if I can't wait around 'cause I'm too busy, I will look to see that everyone has tasted their food and disappear. Like I said, I'm giving you the opportunity to speak up if I've missed something or you need something.

Sit down at the table to take an order? Sorry, that would get you fired from any restaurant I've ever worked in, pub to swish fine dining.

[elbows]

Not eating in front of the customers is another good one. Most places I've worked would prefer you don't, some had a hard fast rule.

And I can understand it really. The customers have no way of knowing that you've been working 10hrs and just need food. This, understandably happens when the restaurant is very busy, Christmastime etc. It is possible/likely somewhere in that restaurant a customer is looking for their very busy server, or waiting at the door to be seated.

You can see why this would rub them the wrong way. Or, you've just been told there is no more spaghetti, but you just saw a server scarfing down an order, (you're probably mistaken, but you see my point!).

And, in all honesty, working in service tends to train a person to scarf their food back like a starving person, (you're only getting 10 mins to eat, or, when you come back it'll be cold!), and that's not attractive at all.

Owners are right to think that it's better to provide a server a spot they can scarf down their food unobserved. It's better for the restaurant and their servers deserve a second away from the hustle and bustle, even if it's only 10 mins and it's in the back of the kitchen, it's more of a break.

Also Murphy's law says if you sit down at the bar to enjoy your meal, one of your customers will spill their drink or light themselves on fire, trust me.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

2. Do not make a singleton feel bad. Do not say, “Are you waiting for someone?” Ask for a reservation. Ask if he or she would like to sit at the bar.
If it's a place that takes reservations, they WILL ask for your reservation. If they ask if you're waiting for someone it's because they DON"T take reservations, and don't have any other way to find out if anyone will be joining you (and not all restaurants have bars).

The thing is, I have the feeling the guy who wrote this list is the kind of person who would become irate if he was waiting for others, and the host/hostess seated him at a small table without asking.

Incidentally, I can say with some confidence that restaurant staff doesn't think twice about people dining alone, doesn't snark on them, doesn't think a damn thing about it. They snark on customers who are demanding assholes, no matter how many people they're with.

[CookingWithGas]

...The fact is, you're not my only table (usually,) and I have other shit I have to do, like roll silverware, or make sure the salad dressing station is clean, etc... I don't have time to sort of hover close by, hoping someone will look up from their food/conversation to make "eye contact" indicating that I can go over....Tells me something about the type of restaurant that you work in.
Get over it.And it's not one I'd go to. It's not about you, it's about the customer.

I'm on the fence re: taking one person's empty plate away before everybody is finished. My personal preference is, "I'm done with this — get it out of my way."....

But then, I strenuously avoid eating with other people as much as I can. That's really just a personality quirk on my part; I like to eat my food while it's still hot, so when my food is placed in front of me I shut up and eat it. Plus, I'm one who eats for nourishment, not for the social experience.Clearly. For most people, though, sharing a meal is a very important social experience. The reason that all plates should be cleared at the same time is to avoid calling undue attention to those who are still eating. I am a slow eater and I hate to be finishing my meal when there are three other people at the table with cleared places. Empty plates I can deal with, but when the table is clear I feel like I'm imposing on everyone.

Huh. I love that part of going to a restaurant. That's the group's opportunity to ooh and aah and wonder at the food before it's on the table.The better restaurants know what you ordered. At one of the top three restaurants I have ever been to, we were seated next to a table of eight, and when the entrées came there were four servers that came out with eight plates and they all hit the table at the same moment in front of the appropriate diners. Now, that was a very expensive restaurant, but there's no reason that a server at TGIFriday's can't consult a note as to whether it was my wife or me who ordered the ribs.

[ivylass]

I have another one.

Don't be chintzy with the garnishes. Don't charge extra because the customer wants bleu cheese dressing or guacamole. Either build it into the cost of the salad or wings or what have you.

A co-worker ordered 50 wings from a sports bar. They gave him one plastic ramekin EACH of ranch and bleu cheese dressing. He asked for more, considering he'd just spent about $45 on wings, and the manager told him it was policy to charge for extra dressing.

It's my theory that places like that, when they start to nickel and dime you, are getting ready to fold up.

I will also tell you that one of my favorite treats is dining alone with a good book.

[Ravenman]

I believe the author is the owner of a restaurant and these are the rules he uses for the running of his business. This bears repeating. The author isn't talking about your local sports bar, a TGI Fridays, or the place that's the favorite with all the locals.

He's opening his first restaurant that's going to serve fish, organic veggies, and nothing else. No beef, no chicken.

I would guess that this place would offer entrees in the $35 range, and a salad would probably be $15. People who go to such places know what an amuse-bouche is, and in my experience going to such places, if it isn't prime time, I think getting an amuse-bouche is a common (although maybe not probable) thing for a customers who are likely to pay $75 or $100 each for dinner.

I like most of the rules as they would apply to a restaurant of this type. I wouldn't apply them to all restaurants, because they're different.

And I don't think the water pitcher (or wine bottle) should touch the glass because there's the chance the glass will tip over, not for any concern about germs.

[drastic_quench]

This bears repeating. The author isn't talking about your local sports bar, a TGI Fridays, or the place that's the favorite with all the locals.

He's opening his first restaurant that's going to serve fish, organic veggies, and nothing else. No beef, no chicken.

I would guess that this place would offer entrees in the $35 range, and a salad would probably be $15. People who go to such places know what an amuse-bouche is, and in my experience going to such places, if it isn't prime time, I think getting an amuse-bouche is a common (although maybe not probable) thing for a customers who are likely to pay $75 or $100 each for dinner.

I like most of the rules as they would apply to a restaurant of this type. I wouldn't apply them to all restaurants, because they're different.

And I don't think the water pitcher (or wine bottle) should touch the glass because there's the chance the glass will tip over, not for any concern about germs.
Thanks, I agree. The wave of haughty indignation here was so predictable that it seemed scripted.

[gigi]

See other thread.

Waitstaff asking to sit down? That's so outside of my experience that I'm having trouble even picturing it.

It's only happened once or twice, but they didn't even ask first. They pulled out a chair and sat down, all chummy like.

[brickbacon]

This bears repeating. The author isn't talking about your local sports bar, a TGI Fridays, or the place that's the favorite with all the locals.

I would guess that this place would offer entrees in the $35 range, and a salad would probably be $15. People who go to such places know what an amuse-bouche is, and in my experience going to such places, if it isn't prime time, I think getting an amuse-bouche is a common (although maybe not probable) thing for a customers who are likely to pay $75 or $100 each for dinner.

I like most of the rules as they would apply to a restaurant of this type. I wouldn't apply them to all restaurants, because they're different.

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is the article is titled, "100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)". Not things they shouldn't do at my restaurant, or at the most expensive restaurants that make up less than 1% of the places out there.

[Ravenman]

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is the article is titled, "100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)". Not things they shouldn't do at my restaurant, or at the most expensive restaurants that make up less than 1% of the places out there.I'm afraid you didn't read the very first sentence in the article: "Herewith is a modest list of dos and don’ts for servers at the seafood restaurant I am building."

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I have another one.

Don't be chintzy with the garnishes. Don't charge extra because the customer wants bleu cheese dressing or guacamole. Either build it into the cost of the salad or wings or what have you.

A co-worker ordered 50 wings from a sports bar. They gave him one plastic ramekin EACH of ranch and bleu cheese dressing. He asked for more, considering he'd just spent about $45 on wings, and the manager told him it was policy to charge for extra dressing.

It's my theory that places like that, when they start to nickel and dime you, are getting ready to fold up.

I will also tell you that one of my favorite treats is dining alone with a good book.
The staff doesn't have anything to do with setting the prices, nor do they have the ability to change them or give you free food. How about just not trying to chisel freebies out of the waitstaff? They have enough headaches.

[tdn]

It's only happened once or twice, but they didn't even ask first. They pulled out a chair and sat down, all chummy like.

That's just weird.

[badbadrubberpiggy]

It's only happened once or twice, but they didn't even ask first. They pulled out a chair and sat down, all chummy like.

I remember it happening a few times when I was a kid, at family-friendly type chain restaurants.

I haven't seen it in years, though, but we also don't eat at lot of the supposedly "family friendly" places that make their servesr do the "I'm your best friend for the evening!" schtick.

[elmwood]

Maybe the next series will include:

Always take orders of tables in the order that the tables were seated, not by whcih table has the most customers or better dressed guests.

This really bothers me as an occasionally-singleton diner. I sit down. Party X with two or more people sit down. Waitron takes the order of Party X first, then mine. I've walked out of restaurants several times because this happened. Surprisingly, it never happens when I'm on a date, with a friend, or out with family; only when I'm alone.

[brickbacon]

I'm afraid you didn't read the very first sentence in the article: "Herewith is a modest list of dos and don’ts for servers at the seafood restaurant I am building."

I did miss that. Good point.

[Gus Gusterson]

This bears repeating. The author isn't talking about your local sports bar, a TGI Fridays, or the place that's the favorite with all the locals.

He's opening his first restaurant that's going to serve fish, organic veggies, and nothing else. No beef, no chicken.

I would guess that this place would offer entrees in the $35 range, and a salad would probably be $15. People who go to such places know what an amuse-bouche is, and in my experience going to such places, if it isn't prime time, I think getting an amuse-bouche is a common (although maybe not probable) thing for a customers who are likely to pay $75 or $100 each for dinner.

I like most of the rules as they would apply to a restaurant of this type. I wouldn't apply them to all restaurants, because they're different.You're correct that this is a list geared to his own restaurant, but a good number of the first 50 rules would be well applied nearly universally. We're only haggling over three or four out of 50 rules (discounting ones like "Steam the label off the wine bottle", where people just can't fathom that ever being done).

[NineToTheSky]

You're correct that this is a list geared to his own restaurant, but a good number of the first 50 rules would be well applied nearly universally. We're only haggling over three or four out of 50 rules (discounting ones like "Steam the label off the wine bottle", where people just can't fathom that ever being done).

Just for the record, I used to have a restaurant majoring in wine, and I tried to remove the labels (to put in the wine list), and some came off like a feather on a baby's bottom, and some were completely impossible to remove. I used to spend hours trying to get them off. Some used something like superglue, and others, due to their age, just crumbled.

[elmwood]

It's not the advice that bothers me, but the fact that an author thinks the average restaurant goer knows what an amuse-bouche is, or would feel entitled to one for having to wait a long time. Honestly, when someone is that unfamiliar with the common man I have to wonder whether it's intentional.

I had to look that up, and I've eaten in some fine dining establishments in my life. I'm guessing the author assumes the readers are limiting their dining to Michelin starred restaurants or the types of places where an entree is an ounce of organic, free-range Kobe beef with three heirloom peas, with caramelized this and reduction that.

I'd like to add one more, although this may be one that's not encountered in the French Laundry-type places the author seems to be addressing - don't push cheese like a Best Buy employee hard-selling warranties. Yes, I'm sure I don't want cheese with that. Really. And when I get pasta, don't take your peen-grinder or grater out and start churning away, while asking at the same time "would you like some fresh-grated pepper?" or "Would you like some fresh-grated cheese?" Looks like I don't have a choice now, huh? Now can you being me an unadulterated dish, and maybe an amuse-bouche for my troubles?

[Mister Rik]

Don't be chintzy with the garnishes. Don't charge extra because the customer wants bleu cheese dressing or guacamole. Either build it into the cost of the salad or wings or what have you.

<snip>

It's my theory that places like that, when they start to nickel and dime you, are getting ready to fold up.
Oh lord, yes. Some years ago I cooked at a small, popular diner. This place was almost always packed, and the owner was doing extremely well for herself. Then the owner died, and her husband sold the place. The new owner was terrible. Sweet lady, but just ... clueless. She started getting really cheap with the condiments. If a customer asked for steak sauce, instead of giving them the bottle she'd open the bottle herself, pour some into a 2 oz. portion cup, and give them that. Pancake syrup? 2 oz. portion cup. Catsup preportioned into 2 oz. cups. One day, going over the invoices, she discovered that sugar-free pancake syrup cost her more than the regular syrup (which made sense - the regular syrup came from the vendor in a case of four 1-gallon jugs, for pouring into the big syrup warmer or filling the little syrup pitchers, while the sugar-free syrup was delivered in a case of 12 individual, grocery-store-sized bottles). Her response to this was to start charging 10 cents extra for sugar-free syrup :dubious: This, despite all of us employees pointing out that it was discriminatory against, say, diabetics. Also, because of 2 or 3 regular customers who would request "no garnish" on their plates, she decided we'd just stop garnishing the plates altogether.

Astonishingly, she's still in business almost eight years later. But the amount of business she has is less than half of what the previous owner had. And I learned from my buddy (who still works there) that she has recently taken up selling real estate and isn't actually in the diner much any more.


This bears repeating. The author isn't talking about your local sports bar, a TGI Fridays, or the place that's the favorite with all the locals.

He's opening his first restaurant that's going to serve fish, organic veggies, and nothing else. No beef, no chicken.

and

I'm afraid you didn't read the very first sentence in the article: "Herewith is a modest list of dos and don’ts for servers at the seafood restaurant I am building."
I noted that as well. But if people here missed that bit, you can be sure that an awful lot of other people missed it as well, and they're going to come away with the idea that these "rules" are what they should expect when they go to Denny's.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

A couple of thingsthat always make me uncomfortable:

I don't like it when the server doesn't write down the orders. This seems to be trendy in some more upscale kinds of places, and I don't get it. It doesn't impress me, it just makes me nervous. Humor me. write it down.


I'm also not a fan of tableside services, such as grinding pepper onto my food, or preparing anything at the table. I don't need the assistance. Give me some space.

[Enderw24]

Maybe the next series will include:

Always take orders of tables in the order that the tables were seated, not by whcih table has the most customers or better dressed guests.

This is the ONLY 100% FAIR way to DO THINGS!!!!

[ivylass]

Oh lord, yes.

This is one of the things that bugs me about some high-end steak restaurants, where most everything is a la carte. If you're going to charge me $28 for a piece of meat, buddy, you can cough up a baked potato and some asparagus to go along with it.

[Mahna Mahna]

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is the article is titled, "100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)". Not things they shouldn't do at my restaurant, or at the most expensive restaurants that make up less than 1% of the places out there.

Yes, but keep in mind that the list was published in the NY Times, not the Podunkville Gazette.

I think it's pretty obvious that this article is talking about the fine dining restaurants that are commonplace in Manhattan... you know, the classy high end joints that cater to the kind of people who probably wouldn't be caught dead in a TGI Friday's. These places may be 1% of places in the country, but they're basically 99% of what's in NYC once you omit the delis and the greasy spoons (which are in a class of their own, as far as I'm concerned).

IMO, if I'm paying $100+ for a meal, you bet your ass I expect most, if not all, of these behaviours from a server. At that price, I'm paying for service and ambiance, not just for my plateful of food.

(The wine label thing is a bit over the top, though. In all my years of eating in fine dining restaurants, I've had this happen exactly once, and that was in a teensy little bistro in Nanaimo, BC of all places)

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Actually, in English, we say "all of you," not "you all," and certainly not its contraction "y'all."I'm glad that "we" have only one way to do things and that you are it's official spokesman.

In actuality, though, it's not in the slightest uncommon to say "you" followed by a qualifier of some sort: you on the left, you ladies, you all. It's certainly more prevalent in some areas than others, but it most certainly isn't proscribed.

Sit down at the table to take an order? Sorry, that would get you fired from any restaurant I've ever worked in, pub to swish fine dining.There was a place I used to go to that catered to the younger after-work white-collar crowd. All of the tables were booths, and all of the waitresses were good-looking ladies with low-cut gowns slit to mid-thigh. It was part of the restaurant's procedure that the waitress would sit down with you while you ordered. Aside from that, I've never encountered this in several decades of eating out.

This is the ONLY 100% FAIR way to DO THINGS!!!!Hey, that's like chanting "Beetlejuice" three times. Don't do that. You'll summon her!

[Ravenman]

I noted that as well. But if people here missed that bit, you can be sure that an awful lot of other people missed it as well, and they're going to come away with the idea that these "rules" are what they should expect when they go to Denny's.That's probably true, that a fair number of people jump right to the numbered things and don't read anything else. But it isn't as though the author is making it difficult to understand that he's talking about his restaurant, by making that point in some complex thematic literary device in the subtext of the blog post. The point that he's talking about his restaurant is made in the literary layer that's above the subtext.

You know, the text.

So if someone glosses something stated clearly in the first sentence of the article, I don't believe the author is to blame if people don't read it.

By the way, I'm predicting "restaurant fail" on this venture. I love fish, but holy mackerel, one beef or chicken dish isn't going to kill your restaurant, but some customers would surely appreciate it. I think the author is to be commended for thinking about maintaining a very high level of service, but 100% of service isn't by the waitstaff. I think service starts with the menu.

[gigi]

I'm also not a fan of tableside services, such as grinding pepper onto my food, or preparing anything at the table. I don't need the assistance. Give me some space.

How about when the waiter unfolds the napkin and puts it across your lap for you? :dubious: ick

And it was a sad day when a local spot switched from bottling their amazing dipping sauce to pouring the oil over an herb mixture in a dish. I guess the bottles got messy and this way they can control it, but I liked the independence.

[ivylass]

When I read this (bolding mine):

Herewith is a modest list of dos and don’ts for servers at the seafood restaurant I am building. Veteran waiters, moonlighting actresses, libertarians and baristas will no doubt protest some or most of what follows. They will claim it homogenizes them or stifles their true nature. And yet, if 100 different actors play Hamlet, hitting all the same marks, reciting all the same lines, cannot each one bring something unique to that role?

I took it to mean that in a "When I'm Emperor of the World, these are the rules restaurants must abide by" sort of thing.

[elmwood]

How about when the waiter unfolds the napkin and puts it across your lap for you? :dubious: ick

Isn't that a practice that is mainly confined to old-school high-end restaurants? In my hometown, all the high-end Mad Men- and prior-era restaurants placed the napkin in your lap. I've never seen it in any newer establishments, but I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

[Ravenman]

When I read this (bolding mine):

I took it to mean that in a "When I'm Emperor of the World, these are the rules restaurants must abide by" sort of thing.That's a bizarre reading. He said there's 100 ways to play Hamlet and each one brings something new to the role, not that he's going to create a single way to act the part.

[Gus Gusterson]

I don't like it when the server doesn't write down the orders. This seems to be trendy in some more upscale kinds of places, and I don't get it. It doesn't impress me, it just makes me nervous. Humor me. write it down.None of the servers in the restaurants we go to write down the orders. It used to bug me, but I don't think I've ever received the wrong thing. We used to go to Bugaboo Creek because the kids liked the talking moose, and even there the servers could take an order from a table of eight without writing it down and not make a mistake even when we made a substitution in every single order. A server who doesn't have to write the orders down inspires confidence in me. If you get someone who writes it down you know you've got a rookie. I'd rather be served by someone with experience.

[Shodan]

A no-snark-intended, serious question for you: what if the server asks permission before sitting down? As long as you don't take it as rude when I say "No".

The waiter is there to, you know, wait on me. He or she is not one of the party. That means you call me Sir, not by my first name (or, worse yet, "guys"), you make every reasonable effort to abide by my reasonable wishes, and you sure as hell don't sit down at my table.

If I am with someone else, I am out to eat and to enjoy their company. If I am out by myself, I don't want anyone's company. Certainly not by anyone who expects to be paid for it.

Regards,
Shodan

[Coup Fourre]

Maybe the next series will include:

Always take orders of tables in the order that the tables were seated, not by whcih table has the most customers or better dressed guests.

This really bothers me as an occasionally-singleton diner. I sit down. Party X with two or more people sit down. Waitron takes the order of Party X first, then mine. I've walked out of restaurants several times because this happened. Surprisingly, it never happens when I'm on a date, with a friend, or out with family; only when I'm alone.

Big no-no! This has happened to me where I've been seated a one-top and a 2-4 top at the same time. I will always greet the one-top 1st. Makes 'em feel special, and, honestly, they are just as important as multi-diner tables.

Also, I've gotten some really great tips from single diners--sometimes better than bigger tables!:cool:

[elmwood]

Dumb questions: do high-end restaurants still offer diners a chance to sniff the cork when they are served a bottle of wine? I've gotten samples to determine if the wine is to my liking, but never heard "Would you like to sniff the cork, sir?"

[elmwood]

The waiter is there to, you know, wait on me. He or she is not one of the party.

I don't think I've ever seen that at a restaurant where the servers don't wear flair.

[Kamino Neko]

This is the one that really stood out to me:

41. Saying, “No problem” is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity or sarcasm. “My pleasure” [snip] will do.

This is exactly backwards. 'No problem' is informal, but, except under bizarre circumstances, completely true. If my server is being sarcastic, it'll come through in their delivery, not in their using the term.

'My pleasure' is an obvious lie, and therefor inherently insincere.

But, it's polite insincerity - usually, it can be laden with sarcasm, of course - so I wouldn't think any less of the server that said it.

I do, however, think less of an employer who insists the servers say it, because they think it sounds sincere - thinking I'm an idiot is not a good way to get on my good side. (Nor is being an idiot who thinks that 'my pleasure' is, or even sounds, sincere, for that matter.)

[Ravenman]

Dumb questions: do high-end restaurants still offer diners a chance to sniff the cork when they are served a bottle of wine? I've gotten samples to determine if the wine is to my liking, but never heard "Would you like to sniff the cork, sir?"Sometimes they'll put the cork down next to you and you can inspect it if you wish, but I can't imagine there's any reason to smell it. As soon as the waiter puts it down, he's pouring you a bit of the wine, and you can smell and taste the actual wine in just a matter of moments.

Having the cork placed next to you is more about making sure the cork is from the bottle you actually ordered, not a $3 bottle of Chateau Crapville with an Opus One label glued on.

[badbadrubberpiggy]

Dumb questions: do high-end restaurants still offer diners a chance to sniff the cork when they are served a bottle of wine? I've gotten samples to determine if the wine is to my liking, but never heard "Would you like to sniff the cork, sir?"

In my admittedly limited experience, yes, they do, at least in some places.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

Having the cork placed next to you is more about making sure the cork is from the bottle you actually ordered, not a $3 bottle of Chateau Crapville with an Opus One label glued on.The age-old ritual of inspecting the cork isn't so much about the sniff. As you said, you can sniff the actual wine to get more information.

It's about checking the cork for indications that it has dried out because the wine was stored improperly. If the cork is allowed to dry out, then it is likely to crack and/or shrink, allowing impurities into the bottle. A dry cork may have mildew on it, or may just be a red flag to say, "check this bottle carefully."

[YogSosoth]

But then, I strenuously avoid eating with other people as much as I can. That's really just a personality quirk on my part; I like to eat my food while it's still hot, so when my food is placed in front of me I shut up and eat it. Plus, I'm one who eats for nourishment, not for the social experience. I find myself endlessly frustrated by dining companions who get their food and then leave it practically untouched while they yammer on and on. Trying to eat and converse at the same time is an exercise in frustration for me, since somebody always says something I'm expected to respond to just as I've taken a big bite of something. So I'd rather suspend the conversation for the time it takes to eat, then pick it up afterward.

I'm the same way. Yak yak yak, I can't stand it. When I go out to eat, I'm always the first one done.

[Mama Zappa]

Sometimes they'll put the cork down next to you and you can inspect it if you wish, but I can't imagine there's any reason to smell it. As soon as the waiter puts it down, he's pouring you a bit of the wine, and you can smell and taste the actual wine in just a matter of moments.

Having the cork placed next to you is more about making sure the cork is from the bottle you actually ordered, not a $3 bottle of Chateau Crapville with an Opus One label glued on.
It's also so you can look at the condition of the cork. If it's dry and crumbly, chances are it's let air get to the wine and the wine will have gone off. Yes, you can also tell by tasting the wine, but it's one more data point.

[StusBlues]

Dumb questions: do high-end restaurants still offer diners a chance to sniff the cork when they are served a bottle of wine? I've gotten samples to determine if the wine is to my liking, but never heard "Would you like to sniff the cork, sir?"


Yes. No idea why I'd want to do that. I have to bite my tongue lest I reply: "No. Would you like to smell my finger?"

[elbows]

Um, that's why the cork is placed on the table.

Want to sniff it? Knock yourself out.

But it's really so you can see it's in good condition and the wine has not been compromised.

[Martini Enfield]

The waiter is there to, you know, wait on me. He or she is not one of the party. That means you call me Sir, not by my first name (or, worse yet, "guys")

I really don't like being called "sir". I find it patronising and insincere.

Naturally I'd feel differently about it if I had a Knighthood, but I don't, so I'd prefer not to be called "sir" by customer service people where possible.

All of which is a complicated way of saying "There is no way to please all customers all of the time".

[Dusty Rose]

I could handle Ma'am for the most part. What I absolutely cannot stand is when they call me "Hon" or "Dear." Especially if they are my age or younger. Annoys the hell out of me.

[StusBlues]

I could handle Ma'am for the most part. What I absolutely cannot stand is when they call me "Hon" or "Dear." Especially if they are my age or younger. Annoys the hell out of me.


Likewise. I'm also put off by waitresses touching me. Who the hell told them they could do that?

[ENugent]

Yes. No idea why I'd want to do that. I have to bite my tongue lest I reply: "No. Would you like to smell my finger?"

I am reminded of Steve Martin in The Muppet Movie. "Would you like to sniff ze cap?"

[elbows]

Y'all are making my point for me. For every person who finds 'No worries' offensive or insincere another finds it innocuous. Same goes for Sir or Ma'am.

It's the servers job to work the crowd. To know who's going to prefer which. Can they always get it right? Obviously not, but an experienced server knows not to use one of those phrases until they've interacted with you a bit and gotten a feel for you.

As for touching you or calling you Hon or Dear, yeah, that's not cool, maybe in a diner but even then it's a little iffy.

As for sounding insincere when they say, 'no worries', or, 'have a nice evening', or 'it'd be my pleasure', or, 'certainly', well, that's more a function of exactly how often they've had to say it that day, week, month.

And again, the problem is often that the manager has a preferred phrase they want used. Overuse ends up sounding insincere. Myself I would change it up so it sounded as close to sincere as possible. And regardless of how it sounded I always, always meant it sincerely.

[manila]

This is the ONLY 100% FAIR way to DO THINGS!!!!

I saw what you did there.


(if we say her name 3 times will she appear in this thread??)

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

I saw what you did there.


(if we say her name 3 times will she appear in this thread??)

Who?

[madmonk28]

A lot of people followed the link from the OP to this story, but it is part of a regular feature called "You're the Boss" which is a place for small business owners to talk about how they do things. People who don't regularly read the NYT probably missed that point. He was asked to write about how he runs things and he did.

Also, a smart small business owner would take an opportunity to talk up his business and try to convey to the thousands of readers what's special about his/her place. The author of this article is trying to say that he has standards and if you come to his place, it will be a special experience.

A place doesn't have to be insanely expensive to have a high standard of service and a place with high standards of service doesn't have to come off as pretentious. I enjoy all kinds of dining experiences, the one thing they have in common is that the place has heart and the staff give a shit.

If you notice one of his rules is that people eating alone are to be treated as much as valued guest as a larger party. That alone made me love the list. I love a place that you can sit down have a nice meal and read a book without feeling like a social reject.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Pretty much ANY place does that, especially the lower scale places.

[manila]

Originally Posted by manila
I saw what you did there.


(if we say her name 3 times will she appear in this thread??)

Who?

Back in March this year we had a thread on tipping. As these are always interesting on these boards I pulled up a chair and opened the popcorn. The thread developed as expected ( lots for, many against) until on page 5 post 247 a new poster arrived and from there on the thread truly slipped into the realms of the twilight zone.......

.......And never surfaced again until it ended after another 12 pages with a banned poster and many strange ocurrences. A true classic.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509580&highlight=springs1

[chique]

I've been to a small handful of high-end restaurants. At one of them the only reason I realized my napkin had slipped off of my lap was because the waitress set a new one (not the old one that had fallen to the floor - a NEW one) on the table next to my plate. That's a far cry from the average restaurant where you have to chase someone down to get a new fork even though the clatter echoed. This list is obviously created for restaurants of the former variety than the latter.

That said, I was happy to see that Waterrant (http://waiterrant.net/?p=1485) has jumped on this list. My personal favorites:

24. Never use the same glass for a second drink. When the dishwasher’s on his marijuana break and there are no clean glasses to be found, you better believe we reuse that glass. Or somebody else’s! A quick rinse in the slop sink and you’re good to go.

25. Make sure the glasses are clean. Inspect them before placing them on the table. That’s because the lipstick some chicks smear on their mouths has the staying power of grout sealant.

29. Do not pop a champagne cork. Remove it quietly, gracefully. The less noise the better. Agreed. But if the customer’s a real pain in the ass aim for their eye.

32. Never touch a customer. No excuses. Do not do it. Do not brush them, move them, wipe them or dust them. So what do you do if that three martini cougar offers you a handjob?

37. Do not drink alcohol on the job, even if invited by the guests. “Not when I’m on duty” will suffice. Oh give me a fucking break. Without alcohol waiters would be killing restaurant managers and hostesses every day.

[Nava]

32. Never touch a customer. No excuses. Do not do it. Do not brush them, move them, wipe them or dust them. So what do you do if that three martini cougar offers you a handjob?

Or if someone faints. And without going to such extremes, this is one of those things which have a lot to do with personal preference. With most americans, the general rule will be "no touching," but if, say, you're taking their coats and your hand brushes their jacket, please do not drop to the floor and grovel, as it will make the coats dirty.

[Lynn Bodoni]

There was a place I used to go to that catered to the younger after-work white-collar crowd. All of the tables were booths, and all of the waitresses were good-looking ladies with low-cut gowns slit to mid-thigh. It was part of the restaurant's procedure that the waitress would sit down with you while you ordered. Aside from that, I've never encountered this in several decades of eating out. I see this happening in some of the chains I go to, and I believe that it's actually encouraged by the management. Also, kneeling to take an order is supposed to generate bigger tips, on average. Personally, I don't want one of the restaurant staff to sit down at my table unless I invite him or her, nor do I want someone to kneel to take my order. I have, on occasion, asked a staffer to sit down if they have the time, but I always leave them a face-saving excuse.

[Princhester]

I used to go to a restaurant in London (vegetarian Bangladeshi place) where the owner - who did front of house - would take your order if you were lucky, if he was in the mood and above all if you made your mind up what you wanted very, very promptly.

A moment's hesitation on your part and he would just sigh exasperatedly, rip some pages out of his notebook, and throw them plus a pen on your table, and say "write out your own order"and storm off.

Despite this we went there all the time, because the food was absolutely mouthwatering, the prices staggeringly low and the amusement factor of laughing at the owner's antics was high.

[Martini Enfield]

I used to go to a restaurant in London (vegetarian Bangladeshi place) where the owner - who did front of house - would take your order if you were lucky, if he was in the mood and above all if you made your mind up what you wanted very, very promptly.

A moment's hesitation on your part and he would just sigh exasperatedly, rip some pages out of his notebook, and throw them plus a pen on your table, and say "write out your own order"and storm off.

Despite this we went there all the time, because the food was absolutely mouthwatering, the prices staggeringly low and the amusement factor of laughing at the owner's antics was high.

I ate at a Chinese restaurant in London that was legendary for the rudeness of their staff. I'm surprised they didn't actually address the customers as "Imperialist round-eye capitalist running dogs" when demanding "you order now!"

The food was delicious and the appalling service was, ironically, part of the experience.

[gigi]

32. Never touch a customer. No excuses. Do not do it. Do not brush them, move them, wipe them or dust them. So what do you do if that three martini cougar offers you a handjob?

That's her touching you--perfectly OK.

[drastic_quench]

I ate at a Chinese restaurant in London that was legendary for the rudeness of their staff. I'm surprised they didn't actually address the customers as "Imperialist round-eye capitalist running dogs" when demanding "you order now!"

The food was delicious and the appalling service was, ironically, part of the experience.
There's a mom and pop pizza place here that has such poor service, you will not escape it in under two hours... for pizza. You'll be forgotten, your pizza will not be what you ordered, and you'll have to harass someone to get silverware and napkins (at all). That said, their pizza is excellent, and their delivery is prompt and correct. We've sworn off dining in.

[Cat Whisperer]

I see this happening in some of the chains I go to, and I believe that it's actually encouraged by the management. Also, kneeling to take an order is supposed to generate bigger tips, on average. <snip>
I hate that kind of stuff. A kneeling server just makes me feel awkward and embarrassed - tip not going up for that. All I want from a server is what I want from a cashier - expedite my giving you my money for your product, and don't try to be my new best friend.

[BigT]

That's probably true, that a fair number of people jump right to the numbered things and don't read anything else. But it isn't as though the author is making it difficult to understand that he's talking about his restaurant, by making that point in some complex thematic literary device in the subtext of the blog post. The point that he's talking about his restaurant is made in the literary layer that's above the subtext.

You know, the text.

So if someone glosses something stated clearly in the first sentence of the article, I don't believe the author is to blame if people don't read it.

I disagree wholeheartedly. There's no reason he couldn't have made his point in the title. And how people perceive what is essentially an ad in a paper is entirely the writer's fault.

[Ravenman]

I disagree wholeheartedly. There's no reason he couldn't have made his point in the title. And how people perceive what is essentially an ad in a paper is entirely the writer's fault.Would you also prefer that he use bold text on important words, so that readers don't miss important points? Or perhaps more use of footnotes to make sure the reader doesn't misunderstand anything? (1)

Someone has to be an incredibly lazy reader to say that a writer who puts something in the first 30 words of his article, really ought to have put that thing in the first six words of his article.

In fact, I fail to see what negligence a writer has committed if a reader cannot comprehend plain English in the first sentence of a short article. I would submit that such a reader could not be completely trusted to read a headline accurately, either. Now, we all skim during reading, and may not read things accurately, which isn't a sin or sign of stupidity. As we skim, we are taking a shortcut that diverts comprehension. But when misunderstandings arise, it's due to our mistake as readers, and not the writer's fault for insufficiently holding our hand while we were being a little bit lazy.


(1) Even though I used question marks to end two sentences, those are rhetorical questions.(2)
(2) Rhetorical means that an answer isn't really expected.

[Enderw24]

In fact, I fail to see what negligence a writer has committed if a reader cannot comprehend plain English in the first sentence of a short article. I would submit that such a reader could not be completely trusted to read a headline accurately, either. Now, we all skim during reading, and may not read things accurately, which isn't a sin or sign of stupidity. As we skim, we are taking a shortcut that diverts comprehension. But when misunderstandings arise, it's due to our mistake as readers, and not the writer's fault for insufficiently holding our hand while we were being a little bit lazy.[/SIZE]

Your reply would have been more effective if you had bolded certain words or maybe used footnotes.

[madmonk28]

Part II is up, please read the opening paragraph: http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/?hp

[Freudian Slit]

I realize that every deli needs a wisecracking waiter, most pizza joints can handle heavy metal, and burgers always taste better when delivered by a server with tattoos and tongue piercing(s).

Can you just imagine this guy going to a lower tier restaurant, telling himself he needs to mix with the hoi polloi once in a while, wincing the whole time?

[ivylass]

While I agree that a server should never ask if the guest wants change, I'm a bit iffy on waiting for the guest to ask before bringing the check. If the table is cleared of dishes, the dessert is eaten, and they're sipping on coffee and have declined refills, I think it's okay to bring the check. That way the guest has it. They may take their time paying it, but at least they don't have to hunt the server down.

[Mr Buttons]

Surprisingly, the 2nd list isn't all that bad. Only one really ridiculous item on this list, as opposed to 5+ on that first list.

97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him or her.

Having the customer know the recipe so they can make it at home helps the restaurant how?? (or they could spread it around to other restaurants.)
Where I work (cook, not server), I've had people ask me for recipes before, I'll tell them all the ingredients except 1 or 2 things so that it "just doesn't taste the same as when we go to <blank>". Repeat business is CRUCIAL for restaurant success.

Also, who expects the server to know the recipe anyways? That's not what they do.
I put this up there with steaming off wine labels in the :rolleyes: category.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, the recipe thing is odd. That UL about the Neiman Marcus cookies always struck me as odd because why would a customer think that a company would just give up their special recipe?

[Floater]

While I agree that a server should never ask if the guest wants change, I'm a bit iffy on waiting for the guest to ask before bringing the check. If the table is cleared of dishes, the dessert is eaten, and they're sipping on coffee and have declined refills, I think it's okay to bring the check. That way the guest has it. They may take their time paying it, but at least they don't have to hunt the server down.
I agree with you and want to add that when a guest has asked for the bill it means that he is prepared to leave so take his money and return the change as quickly as possible.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The recipes from restaurants (especially high end restaurants) are, more often than not, not going to be that easy to reproduce in a home kitchen anyway. A lot depends on having specialized equipment and ingredients.

[norinew]

The second list, I agree with just about everything, except perhaps the not bringing the check until asked. I think it's perfectly fine to bring the check when it's pretty clear they're done, with, of course, the pronouncement of "No hurry, of course; I'll get that whenever you're ready". I've eaten at certain restaurants that stand the check up when they put it on the table and advise us to lay it down when we're ready to pay.

Definitely agree with not asking "do you need change?" Grrrrr, that chaps my hide.

Can't really disagree with giving a recipe to a patron who gushes over a certain dish. I'd like to have certain recipes from certain restaurants. Just because I know exactly how to make Wonder Bar's lobster bisque, does not mean I'm going to stop patronizing the restaurant since now I know how to make the bisque at home. I'm going there for the lobster bisque, yes, but also for the service, the ambiance, to get away from cooking for the evening, to enjoy time with my husband, etc.

[sugar and spice]

While I agree that a server should never ask if the guest wants change, I'm a bit iffy on waiting for the guest to ask before bringing the check. If the table is cleared of dishes, the dessert is eaten, and they're sipping on coffee and have declined refills, I think it's okay to bring the check. That way the guest has it. They may take their time paying it, but at least they don't have to hunt the server down.

IME this is something of a European vs. American** etiquette difference, the European etiquette is that it's rude to bring the check before the customer asks for it, it's akin to rushing them out the door. Especially if they are still having their drink. The American etiquette is what you've said, the check should come before the guest has to ask.

And I agree with madmonk28, you have to consider the context. This is his list for his restaurant, it's not supposed to apply to every restaurant anywhere.

**I've never lived in Europe, but I've traveled there a bit. And 'you have to ask' is what I've observed in NYC and Latin America, and I'm told both operate a bit more like Europe. If you know what I mean then pls let me know if you have a better way to say it.

[drastic_quench]

I always get asked, "Are you still working on that?"

I hadn't realized how annoying that is until now. And it's always at some place that serves their food in a plastic basket. I know you're not running short on napkin-lined baskets, and it won't take you any longer to bus it with the rest later , so leave me alone to finish this pile of food that's clearly in front of me.

[Freudian Slit]

I always get asked, "Are you still working on that?"

I hadn't realized how annoying that is until now. And it's always at some place that serves their food in a plastic basket. I know you're not running short on napkin-lined baskets, and it won't take you any longer to bus it with the rest later , so leave me alone to finish this pile of food that's clearly in front of me.

I get asked this a lot, but I don't see it as rude. I usually don't finish everything in front of me because I have something of a small appetite (I'm little!). So I just figure it's just them not aware if I've finished or if I'm taking a break or whatnot. It's a lot better than, "Whatsamatta, you not like-a the food" or "Eat, eat, you're nothing but skin and bones."

[norinew]

Yeah, I'm a pretty slow eater, with a somewhat-smaller-than-normal appetite, and I often get asked "Are you still working on that?"

I notice, in the list, the blogger doesn't suggest an alternative. Not saying there's not a better one out there, but I can't think of one that's not more offensive than 'are you still working on that?' I'd like to see what this would-be restaurateur thinks the server should say? Maybe he thinks they shouldn't say anything until the diner signals that they're ready for the check? That might be fine. It would be fine with me. But you're going to have a percentage of customers who feel ignored if this is the approach. . .

Bottom line, no matter how long your list, someone is going to be offended by something the server does! (Including people who will be offended by the server seeming to have too many 'rules' foisted upon him/her).

[ivylass]

When I'm done eating, I'll leave the silverware on the plate and push it off to the side. A good server should take that as a clue to say, "May I clear this away for you?" which is more polite than "Are you still working on that?"

[Freudian Slit]

I guess that works, ivylass. I suppose the "Are you still working on that" might bug me if I wasn't finished and I was just a slow eater but since I'm a fast but just small portioned eater, it doesn't. I don't really see "Are you still working on that" as rude in any case. But then, I'm one of those people who doesn't see "No problem" as biting sarcasm and "Do you need change?"as an example of an impudent young scrap needing to be put in his place.

As norinew points out, there's probably no way of not offending someone. You just know that old dowager or old guy with the monocle will come in and then you're screwed.

[bouv]

Definitely agree with not asking "do you need change?" Grrrrr, that chaps my hide.
.

I don't get what's so bad about this. Ok, yes, when I see a $100 bill sticking out of the check presenter and you have a $30 meal, I'll just say "be right back," but most of the time the money is hidden inside, so I have no idea how much cash is there, or if it's a card.

I ask if they want change because if they don't, it saves me the hassle of having to MAKE change. You can not believe how frustrating that can be. When it's the start of my shift, and everyone pays with nothing but large bills, I have no way to make change. We have no real cash register (you'll find this is true in most restaurants.) The bartender has one, but that's it. Everyone else just keeps all the money they get and makes change from it, and then "cashes out" to the manager at the end of the night. So when I can't make change from what I have, I first beg and plead to the other servers, none of whom want to give up their small bills, then I ask the bartender, and again, same principle applies, then I have to find the manager (not always easy to do,) and have him open the safe and make change for me from the cash box.

So you can understand why I'd rather know right up front if I need to go through with all that crap.

[Freudian Slit]

I don't get what's so bad about this. Ok, yes, when I see a $100 bill sticking out of the check presenter and you have a $30 meal, I'll just say "be right back," but most of the time the money is hidden inside, so I have no idea how much cash is there, or if it's a card.

It means you assumed that there was the possibility that you MIGHT be getting a tip. You need to be put into your place, you rascal. How dare you assume that your betters would reward you for the privilege of waiting on them? Just for that, you get nothing. :D

No, really, I don't get it, but that's the vibe I get from a LOT of people.

[Mister Rik]

And I agree with madmonk28, you have to consider the context. This is his list for his restaurant, it's not supposed to apply to every restaurant anywhere.

Reading through the second section, I think I see the problem: the way he's worded the "things", combined with the wording of the headline, is inconsistent with his statement in the intro that he's just talking about his own restaurant. I'll concede the possibility that some editor rewrote things, but I find that unlikely since this is apparently supposed to be a blog.

Actual Headline: "100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do"

Better Headline: "100 Things My Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do"

And the ambiguous wording of some of the rules:

"56. Do not ignore a table because it is not your table. Stop, look, listen, lend a hand. (Whether tips are pooled or not.)"

"Whether tips are pooled or not"? Is he planning to let his servers decide amongst themselves from one night to the next whether or not to pool the tips? Because that kind of thing should be decided at the management level, and should be the same from one day to the next. This statement removes the "in my restaurant" intent and implies that he is talking about any restaurant. That said, this particular rule really should be in place in all restaurants; I'm just using it as an example of wording that negates the "in my restaurant" specificity. The parenthetical bit is unnecessary.

"72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared."

Again, nothing wrong with the rule. Given the high-level type of restaurant he's opening, I would guess that all of his salads are going to be prepared fresh to order. But "it usually advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared" again brings other restaurants into the equation. A better choice of words would be, "the guest may get the impression that the salad was not freshly prepared."

Rules 91-94, dealing with the music being played.

If his restaurant is going to play background music, then he should be the one deciding what music is approved, and how that music is going to be piped in, and what the source of the music is going to be. Again, given the nature of this restaurant, one can assume that broadcast radio stations are not going to be part of the equation. So why mention them if this list is specific to just his restaurant?

[ivylass]

Yep. Never assume there's going to be a tip. (Of course, I would say, "I will be right back with your change, leaving the guest an opening to say either "Thank you" or "Nope, keep it." But I never asked if they wanted the change.)

[Infovore]

Refrain from touching the wet spots on the guest.

Always good advice. :D

I'd like to add another: Do not take away the guest's drink before bringing them another one.

I don't eat at high-end restaurants often (and even then, my version of a 'high end restaurant' is something like Ruth's Chris Steakhouse) so maybe free refills aren't an issue there, but if I'm halfway done with my soft drink and you ask me if I want a refill (or even if you don't ask), leave me the one I have until you've replaced it (unless it's already empty). I don't like being beverage-less.

[Scarlett67]

When I'm done eating, I'll leave the silverware on the plate and push it off to the side. A good server should take that as a clue to say, "May I clear this away for you?" which is more polite than "Are you still working on that?"

Yes, or "May I take your plate?" I too don't care for the implication that eating is a chore, or that I'm a four-year-old who must finish before I can have a cookie. It also has the benefit of making no comment on what may or may not be left on my plate.

[ivylass]

I also assume in high end places (the most high end I've been to is Emeril's) is that it is considered gauche to ask for a doggy bag?

[norinew]

Yep. Never assume there's going to be a tip. (Of course, I would say, "I will be right back with your change, leaving the guest an opening to say either "Thank you" or "Nope, keep it." But I never asked if they wanted the change.)
Indeed (which is how waters in my restaurant will say 'this'. :D ) Though in fact, if I'm paying in cash, I'll usually not give them the chance to ask, if I mean them to keep the change. They take the bill, with cash, and I'll just say "Don't bother with the change" or something like that.

[Freudian Slit]

I also assume in high end places (the most high end I've been to is Emeril's) is that it is considered gauche to ask for a doggy bag?

I sure hope not. I often do. IMO, it's better not to waste than to be gauche.

[ivylass]

I remember when I was about 13 my parents took us to Atlanta on a slash vacation/business trip for my dad. We ate at the Abbey (is that still around?) and my mother took home her leftover Beef Wellington in an aluminum foil swan. I think that's the swankiest place we ate while I was growing up. I remember there was a harpist.

So maybe the server won't roll his eyes at you for asking to take home the rest of the filet mignon with the cinnamon bacon port wine reduction sauce?

[Enderw24]

It means you assumed that there was the possibility that you MIGHT be getting a tip. You need to be put into your place, you rascal. How dare you assume that your betters would reward you for the privilege of waiting on them? Just for that, you get nothing. :D

No, really, I don't get it, but that's the vibe I get from a LOT of people.

Well what's wrong with saying "how much change would you like back?"
Functionally it serves the same purpose as "would you like any change." But this would seem rude and presumptious, wouldn't it?

It's a dance you play. Servers don't ask about the tip and guests don't flaunt the possibility of a tip in the server's face. Both need to pretend to be chaste about the issue even though the transaction's going through the vast majority of the time.
It's like going on a date with a wayward Catholic schoolgirl. It would be uncouth to start the conversation asking for a handjob behind the stadium bleachers even though everyone knows she'll be giving it up every which way but one by the end of the night.

[norinew]

I also assume in high end places (the most high end I've been to is Emeril's) is that it is considered gauche to ask for a doggy bag?
Well, I haven't eaten at any really high-end establishments, but in my experience, the fancier places will offer to take it back to the kitchen and package it for you to take home, while the lower-end places will bring a styrofoam container to the table. (Of course, in the really low-end places, you can just re-wrap the sandwich in the paper it came in. . .) ;)

[drastic_quench]

Yeah, I'm a pretty slow eater, with a somewhat-smaller-than-normal appetite, and I often get asked "Are you still working on that?"

I notice, in the list, the blogger doesn't suggest an alternative. Not saying there's not a better one out there, but I can't think of one that's not more offensive than 'are you still working on that?' I'd like to see what this would-be restaurateur thinks the server should say? Maybe he thinks they shouldn't say anything until the diner signals that they're ready for the check? That might be fine. It would be fine with me. But you're going to have a percentage of customers who feel ignored if this is the approach. . .

Bottom line, no matter how long your list, someone is going to be offended by something the server does! (Including people who will be offended by the server seeming to have too many 'rules' foisted upon him/her).
I like when a server will just address the entire table during a refill check by asking, "Can I clear any plates?" That makes it sound like they're doing the table a favor by taking away anything that's no longer needed and crowding the table.

[Freudian Slit]

Well what's wrong with saying "how much change would you like back?"
Functionally it serves the same purpose as "would you like any change." But this would seem rude and presumptious, wouldn't it?

But that's what the delivery dude says...:D Okay, I see your point. I personally don't get annoyed but I guess I can see why others might.

Can we still agree that "No problem" is pretty innocuous?

[Labdad]

We ate at the Abbey (is that still around?)

Nope - it closed three or four years ago and reopened as - get this! - a church!

[norinew]

I like when a server will just address the entire table during a refill check by asking, "Can I clear any plates?" That makes it sound like they're doing the table a favor by taking away anything that's no longer needed and crowding the table.
Well, probably about half the time I eat out at restaurants that have waiters (i.e., the kind where you don't have to unwrap your food), I'm alone. Still, I guess even solo, there's probably unnecessary crap on the table where the waiter can say "Can I take any of this out of your way?" Leaving me open to say "Oh, yes, and can I have a carry-out box please?" or "Yes, and could you wrap this up for me, please?"

That would be a good alternative. When I originally posted, I was below my requisite sleep hours and put in a hard day of work! ;) Thanks for looking out for me! (I've since had a nap, and feel much better!)

[CookingWithGas]

I guess that works, ivylass. I suppose the "Are you still working on that" might bug me if I wasn't finished and I was just a slow eater but since I'm a fast but just small portioned eater, it doesn't. I don't really see "Are you still working on that" as rude in any case. It's not rude, exactly, but it's overly familiar/brusque for some people. No, I am not working on anything. I am eating.


But then, I'm one of those people who doesn't see "No problem" as biting sarcasm and "Do you need change?"as an example of an impudent young scrap needing to be put in his place.I don't mind "No problem" but sometimes colloquialisms get annoying. Once at Bertucci's the female server responded to almost everything I said with, "Awesome!"
"I'll have the fettuccine."
"Awesome!"

I hate to be asked if I want change. If I don't want change I say so when they pick up the payment. Asking me if I want change might as well be, "Are you going to leave me a tip?"

[CookingWithGas]

63. Never blame the chef or the busboy or the hostess or the weather for anything that goes wrong. Just make it right.

This is one that everybody who works in any public-facing business needs to learn. You are the business's face to the customer--you are the restaurant. If something goes wrong, apologize to the customer on behalf of the business and make it right. Do not assign blame, nobody really cares whose fault it is. I have had servers blame the kitchen for problems many times and it's very tiresome.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

#52 ("Know your menu inside out") brings up a pet peeve of mine about servers. If your restaurant/bar has 18 beers on tap, it's a pretty good bet you're not catering to the Bud Lite crowd, so teach the staff SOMETHING about beer before turning them loose to serve the public. It really chaps me going into a place like that and asking if they have a porter (or stout or hefeweizen or some other common style) and having the server not know what it is. Many don't even know the difference between a lager and an ale--which is akin to not knowing the difference between a red and a white wine.

If the table is cleared of dishes, the dessert is eaten, and they're sipping on coffee and have declined refills, I think it's okay to bring the check. That way the guest has it. They may take their time paying it, but at least they don't have to hunt the server down.I agree, but as norinew said, it's nice to have the server say something like, "No hurry on the check. Take as long as you like."

Definitely agree with not asking "do you need change?" Grrrrr, that chaps my hide.This one's easy to take care of. Just say, "I'll be right back with your change." Then the customer has the opportunity to respond with, "No, it's yours," or "Okay."

I always get asked, "Are you still working on that?"

I hadn't realized how annoying that is until now. And it's always at some place that serves their food in a plastic basket.This brings up another one. I have no objection whatsoever to receiving my fish 'n' chips in a plastic basket. But when I order something that requires a knife and fork, put it on a plate, please. I don't like cutting through the paper and spilling sauce all over the table.

[Spoons]

#52 ("Know your menu inside out") brings up a pet peeve of mine about servers. If your restaurant/bar has 18 beers on tap, it's a pretty good bet you're not catering to the Bud Lite crowd, so teach the staff SOMETHING about beer before turning them loose to serve the public. Similarly, teach the servers about booze, period. I remember the time I was in an upscale place and ordered a martini made with Bombay Sapphire; only to have her tell me she had never heard of Bombay Sapphire and didn't think they had any of that kind of vodka, but would Smirnoff be okay? A little discussion, and, I realized I was dealing with a server who had never heard of a martini made only with gin and dry vermouth--she thought they were always vodka-and-whatever (as in cosmopolitans, appletinis, chocolatinis, and other abberations). Once we got that cleared up, and I told her what to have the barman do, he made and she served a pretty good martini.

[drastic_quench]

#52 ("Know your menu inside out") brings up a pet peeve of mine about servers. If your restaurant/bar has 18 beers on tap, it's a pretty good bet you're not catering to the Bud Lite crowd, so teach the staff SOMETHING about beer before turning them loose to serve the public. It really chaps me going into a place like that and asking if they have a porter (or stout or hefeweizen or some other common style) and having the server not know what it is. Many don't even know the difference between a lager and an ale--which is akin to not knowing the difference between a red and a white wine.
As a beer geek myself, YES!

My old practice, if there wasn't a tap list, was to politely ask the server, "What beers do you have on tap - besides the Bud, Miller, and Coors stuff." This is because most servers when asked what's on tap start with their most popular, the above adjunct lagers, and sort of pause after Bud Light, because 90% of the time, that's enough of the list.

That tactic wasn't as successful as it should have been. Servers were spacing on the three other beers on tap too often. So these days, I swing through the bar and read the damn taps myself. Works every time.

[Martini Enfield]

63. Never blame the chef or the busboy or the hostess or the weather for anything that goes wrong. Just make it right.

This is one that everybody who works in any public-facing business needs to learn. You are the business's face to the customer--you are the restaurant. If something goes wrong, apologize to the customer on behalf of the business and make it right. Do not assign blame, nobody really cares whose fault it is. I have had servers blame the kitchen for problems many times and it's very tiresome.

The problem is that often in business there's no-one who can make it right.

In my own experiences in retail, for example, there might be a situation where a customer's mobile phone was sent off for repair and the repair place would knock it back, claiming "water damage" or "this phone has been dropped" or any one of a number of reasons that invalidated the warranty. And about 50% of the time, the customer would hit the roof and demand a new phone or something like that. Store management didn't have the authority to do that (phones being expensive), and the Area Manager would never approve it because Head Office had a policy saying UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL PHONES BE EXCHANGED OR REFUNDED OUTSIDE THE EARLY LIFE FAILURE PERIOD.

And none of us at store level were paid enough to be abused by customers whose phones had stopped working for whatever reason and the warranty people had determined that reason was due to customer mistreatment of the phone.

Modern corporate structures (in retail) are basically set up so there's no way for front-line staff to "make things right" without risking their jobs- which they're unlikely to do, for obvious reasons.

[Glory]

Similarly, teach the servers about booze, period. I remember the time I was in an upscale place and ordered a martini made with Bombay Sapphire; only to have her tell me she had never heard of Bombay Sapphire and didn't think they had any of that kind of vodka, but would Smirnoff be okay? A little discussion, and, I realized I was dealing with a server who had never heard of a martini made only with gin and dry vermouth--she thought they were always vodka-and-whatever (as in cosmopolitans, appletinis, chocolatinis, and other abberations). Once we got that cleared up, and I told her what to have the barman do, he made and she served a pretty good martini.

Heh, I worked at a Chi-Chi's in college, in Raleigh, NC. Most people ordered beer or margaritas, very few alcoholic drinks. Some guy ordered a Dewar's, I had never heard of it, he had to say it for me like 2-3 times (mortifying!) and I think I finally wrote something like do-ers on the ticket. Bartender laughed at me. Looking at the huge racks of bottles behind most bars, I can't imagine knowing everything about each kind of booze!

[devilsknew]

<< 23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer, etc. >>

Holy crap, really? I guess I can see this as an above-and-beyond thing, but as a habitual thing to be expected when someone says they liked the wine??

Well, in all fairness I have seen a really nifty, wine label, steam peeler designed specifically for the job, back in the day. The new removal technique, or the modern technology in the wine label removal kit is this laminate tape system (http://www.winevine-imports.com/Wine-Label-Removers-BUY-2-GET-1-FREE-pr-248.html?gclid=CNv5ocqC9p0CFcZM5QodoUaupw).

I can see this as a signature service, and not something that automatically takes time away from my table. Standards are good, I just don't like the wethering of the flock. It's all relative.

[Floater]

IME this is something of a European vs. American** etiquette difference, the European etiquette is that it's rude to bring the check before the customer asks for it, it's akin to rushing them out the door. Especially if they are still having their drink.
When I think of it, so it is. A cousin of mine and a friend of his had once finished their meal and were sitting talking when the waiter suddenly handed them the bill. Their reaction was "This is the first time ever that we've be thrown out of a restaurant without having behaved like arseholes first". The waiter immediately took back the bill and apoligised, very embarrassed.

[devilsknew]

72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared[/I]."

Again, nothing wrong with the rule. Given the high-level type of restaurant he's opening, I would guess that all of his salads are going to be prepared fresh to order. But "it usually advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared" again brings other restaurants into the equation. A better choice of words would be, "the guest may get the impression that the salad was not freshly prepared."

I, actually presented chilled salad forks, as a flair and special care unto tables where I worked. Folded neatly in a white linen napkin, origami pocket... Lukewarm fresh salads served upon a chilled plate, with chilled dinner service. It had a certain temperate panache. It was actually a selling point because I guarantee nobody was ever offered a chilled salad fork with a slight bow until that point in their lives.

[CookingWithGas]

Modern corporate structures (in retail) are basically set up so there's no way for front-line staff to "make things right" without risking their jobs- which they're unlikely to do, for obvious reasons.I understand that sometimes you can't make the customer happy, based on company policy. But at that point you have to make a decision: Do I represent the company as an employee, or do I represent me? Am I going to explain to the customer why my company won't replace his phone, or am I just going to say how it's not my fault? In such a situation the best approach is to say, "I'm sorry, that's company company. Would you like to speak to my manager?"

[Martini Enfield]

I understand that sometimes you can't make the customer happy, based on company policy. But at that point you have to make a decision: Do I represent the company as an employee, or do I represent me? Am I going to explain to the customer why my company won't replace his phone, or am I just going to say how it's not my fault? In such a situation the best approach is to say, "I'm sorry, that's company company. Would you like to speak to my manager?"

In that scenario, the problem was, I was the manager. There was no-one higher up the chain of command for customers to talk to, short of them ringing Head Office, which would get me in trouble for "not making the customer happy". Yeah, it was a crock and we all hated it.

That's the problem- trying to explain to someone whose $500 phone has been knocked back for repair due to water damage that there is nothing they can do, short of the contacting the manufacturer (who will say "Sorry, but our techs found water damage to the phone's circuits") or the Office of Fair Trading (who will likely say "Sorry, but their techs found water damage to the phone's circuits.")

And how do you say to a customer "Sorry, but that policy is in place because 99% of phones with water damage have been dropped in water, and people who have dropped their phones in the sink keep trying to con free replacements out of us"? Because that's why the policy was in place. You basically have to call the customer a liar or accuse them of trying to pull a fast one on you to explain the reason behind the policy, and that's not cricket.

Or you can say "I'm terribly sorry, but our corporate policy is that we do not refund or exchange phones outside their early life failure period, except as provided under the Sale of Goods Act and the Trade Practices Act. Regrettably, phones with water damage are not covered under this. I wish I could help you but there's honestly nothing I can do at this point beyond giving you the phone number of the manufacturer's repair centre."

We used to have terrible problems with GPS units. Tradesmen would buy an expensive model and sometimes they'd break two months later, and we'd have a tradesman in the store hitting the roof demanding a replacement right then because they couldn't manage without it. And despite the fact GPS units were more expensive that a mid-range mobile phone (Average GPS price at the time was between $350-$700), we could exchange those up to a certain point, and usually did. Then we'd send the faulty unit off to the manufacturer, and- this is the important thing- the manufacturer would send us a shiny new one in replacement, even if the customer had dropped it or left it on the dashboard of a ute parked on a mine site at Mt Isa for a week in the middle of summer. For some reason, we never really had problems with "customer-caused fault" GPS units... I think I recall seeing three or four in two years, and the manufacturers decided it was better for everyone to replace the unit than dig their heels in. If only the mobile phone companies thought the same way...

So we'd have customers wanting to know how come we couldn't replace their two month old $229 phone, but could replace their two month old $350 GPS unit, and when you tried to explain to them it was based on what the manufacturer themselves was prepared to do, their eyes would glaze over or they'd demand to know why the mobile phone manufacturer wouldn't replace their phone.

All of which is a long and convoluted way of saying "Front line staff would like to be able to help you- really, they would. It's not their money. But they'll get their asses kicked from head office if they do so and their jobs aren't worth risking so you can have a new phone right now instead of after the authorised repairer has determined if it's actually faulty or not."

I imagine it's different in restaurants- there is likely someone there who can fix a problem- but in general, in corporate retail? Demanding the person behind the counter (or their manager) "Just fix it" is optimistic at best and impossible at worst.

[Hazle Weatherfield]

Don't remove my plate while I'm still chewing the last bite. This happens to me way more often than you would imagine.

[NajaNivea]

Standards are good, I just don't like the wethering of the flock.

A total aside: I just wanted to say that this may be the first time I've ever seen the word "wether" dropped in random conversation. Very nice ;).

On topic: I really... really hate "are you still working on that?" There is really no way this can be said that doesn't sound like "and will you hurry your ass up so I can turn this table?" or "good og, are you still eating?"
Also seconding the concept of not yoinking my plate out from under me while I'm still masticating that last bite. A few weeks ago I had a server pull a double-whammy, catching me mid-chew with "are you still working on that?" said while simultaneously snatching it out from under me, with a half-gnawed piece of bread in one hand, a fork in the other, and a small amount of food still on the plate. Damn. There's efficiency, then there's "efficiency".

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

#52 ("Know your menu inside out") brings up a pet peeve of mine about servers. If your restaurant/bar has 18 beers on tap, it's a pretty good bet you're not catering to the Bud Lite crowd, so teach the staff SOMETHING about beer before turning them loose to serve the public. It really chaps me going into a place like that and asking if they have a porter (or stout or hefeweizen or some other common style) and having the server not know what it is. Many don't even know the difference between a lager and an ale--which is akin to not knowing the difference between a red and a white wine.

Oh, man, yes. The other side of this is when I am traveling, and a bar/restaurant has a local brew on tap, and when I ask what kind of beer it is, they'll say "it's dark" as if they first thing I want to know is what color it is. Even lager vs. ale would suffice.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

I've picked up a piece of bread to take a bite and had the server snatch away the plate so I didn't have anywhere to set the bread down. That was annoying.

[norinew]

Also seconding the concept of not yoinking my plate out from under me while I'm still masticating that last bite. A few weeks ago I had a server pull a double-whammy, catching me mid-chew with "are you still working on that?" said while simultaneously snatching it out from under me, with a half-gnawed piece of bread in one hand, a fork in the other, and a small amount of food still on the plate. Damn. There's efficiency, then there's "efficiency".

I've picked up a piece of bread to take a bite and had the server snatch away the plate so I didn't have anywhere to set the bread down. That was annoying.
Aaaccckkk! There is never a good excuse for any server to remove a plate from the table you are still sitting at, without asking first! I don't expect them to bow to me then kneel at my feet while awaiting my reply or anything; but a simple "can I get any of these dishes out of your way?" is perfectly acceptable!

I dunno, maybe being a waiter is like being in customer service: if you've never done it, you shouldn't judge. And while I have done customer service, I've never been a waiter. But damn, some things just strike me as unnecessarily rude, and removing a plate I may still conceivably be using, without asking first, strikes me as one of those unnecessarily rude things.

[Freudian Slit]

How about this one? 42. Do not compliment a guest’s attire or hairdo or makeup. You are insulting someone else.

I could see not doing it because it's "too familiar" but how is it insulting someone else? By that rationale, EVERY compliment is a insult of someone else.

[norinew]

How about this one?

I could see not doing it because it's "too familiar" but how is it insulting someone else? By that rationale, EVERY compliment is a insult of someone else.
In this one, I got the impression that the server could be conceived as insulting anyone else in that party. I can see the point, kind of. When my two oldest daughters were young, the younger of the two had the thickest, curliest, most beautiful hair you'd ever want, while my oldest had 'meh' hair. Every time I took the two of them somewhere together, people would gush over how gorgeous the youngest's hair was. They never said anything to the oldest one. It got to a point where I felt bad for her.

Still, those are kids we're talking about, not grown ups. And there's also probably a really tactful way of complimenting one particular thing that wouldn't make anyone feel bad. Something like "Oh, I just love your sweater! My favorite Aunt Martha used to wear that exact shade of blue all the time, and it never fails to remind me of her when I see it!" or something like that. But teaching a server the correct way to compliment is probably a lot harder than saying "Just don't".

[CookingWithGas]

I could see not doing it because it's "too familiar" but how is it insulting someone else? By that rationale, EVERY compliment is a insult of someone else.There a very old school of thought in etiquette that one should not make "personal remarks." This includes any remark on a person's appearance, whether bad or good. The underlying idea is that if you say something about a person's appearance, even if positive, that you have revealed that you are evaluating that person. This line of thinking was probably only observed in certain snooty circles and is largely outmoded today.

I don't get the idea about it being an "insult" to others, but it can make some feel left out.

A server in a restaurant is probably safest taking a neutral position, although a really smart one will be able to read a crowd and work the room if the atmosphere of the restaurant is casual. Most are not able to pull that off.

[Mister Rik]

I don't get the idea about it being an "insult" to others, but it can make some feel left out.

I've run into a situation a number of times where I've complimented a female coworker who showed up to work with a new hairstyle — often a style more flattering to her than her usual hairstyle — only to have her tell me something like, "Oh, I overslept and didn't have time to [fix/curl/whatever] my hair today." And I silently wish she'd permanently stop [fixing/curling/whatevering] her hair, because the simpler style looks much better on her. Granted, this has happened less frequently in recent years as long, straight hair has come back into fashion.

So I can see a situation where there are two or more women in a group and you compliment one's hair, and she happens to be the one in the group who didn't do anything special with her hair that day, and the other(s) know this. And if they spent considerable time or money on a fancy 'do, I can see them being offended when you compliment the one with the "plain" hair. They may feel their effort was wasted.

Alternatively, the one you complimented may think you're being sarcastic.

[Švejk]

A tone of insincerity or sarcasm? Where the hell does this idea come from? I've never, ever seen this phrase as anything other than another way to say "you're welcome." I think this guy needs to get over himself.

Yeah, that rule is nonsense. No phrase whatsoever can be insincere or sarcastic in and of itself - it's the tone that makes it so, and it can be done for practically every phrase. I could pull of a sarcastic 'I love you, honey' or an insincere 'you're welcome' without batting an eyelid.

I guess you could argue that 'no problem' might seem to suggest, when taken literally, that a costumer might worry that something might be a problem for a waiter, and needs to be reassured that it isn't. To that I say: meh. It's just an idiom and shouldn't be taken literally.

[Serenata67]

31. Never remove a plate full of food without asking what went wrong. Obviously, something went wrong.

SOOOO FREAKING TRUE!!!!

If I have a plateful of food, and I don't ask for a box for the rest of it, clearly something was not up to snuff about the food.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

31. Never remove a plate full of food without asking what went wrong. Obviously, something went wrong.

SOOOO FREAKING TRUE!!!!

If I have a plateful of food, and I don't ask for a box for the rest of it, clearly something was not up to snuff about the food.

If I had a plate of food that I could not eat, I think I would speak up on my own, as opposed to waiting and hoping that the server inquired as to what was wrong.

BTW---I am one of the least demanding customers in the world, and almost NEVER complain about food or service. If its not a major mistake, I just try to go with the flow and make the best of it. I eat out a lot, and have sent stuff back only twice that I can ever remember. That said, if the food is so off that I cant eat it at all, I will certainly say something, and not wait to see if anyone asks about it................

[Lama Pacos]

God, this article made me feel stabby. Obviously there are grains of truth in it, but overall I get the impression that the author feels customer service workers should be automatons programmed to service him (and to be completely depersonalized, yet somehow also mysteriously friendly and warm?). People like that give me instant flashing red lights. How fucking self-entitled do you have to be to care about the majority of the things on the list?

spoiler: very

[Lama Pacos]

Or, to put it more accurately, many of the list items are not in and of themselves terrible ideas, but delivered as snotty truisms, come off as insufferably condescending.

[drastic_quench]

God, this article made me feel stabby. Obviously there are grains of truth in it, but overall I get the impression that the author feels customer service workers should be automatons programmed to service him (and to be completely depersonalized, yet somehow also mysteriously friendly and warm?). People like that give me instant flashing red lights. How fucking self-entitled do you have to be to care about the majority of the things on the list?

spoiler: very

Or, to put it more accurately, many of the list items are not in and of themselves terrible ideas, but delivered as snotty truisms, come off as insufferably condescending.
But they're his, and one would assume expressed in the interview to work at his place. No one has to be a waiter or waitress for this dude.

[Balthisar]

...but overall I get the impression that the author feels customer service workers should be automatons programmed to service him (and to be completely depersonalized, yet somehow also mysteriously friendly and warm?). People like that give me instant flashing red lights. How fucking self-entitled do you have to be to care about the majority of the things on the list?

I think the list is by a restaurant owner, thus he's trying to ensure that his customers are treated well.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

I think the list is by a restaurant owner, thus he's trying to ensure that his customers are treated well.As was discussed at length earlier in the thread, the list is by someone who is planning to open a restaurant. He has no prior restaurant experience, and this is how he plans to run his new place.

[baileygrrrl]

After reading this thread, I've decided I am going to start tipping at a higher percentage. There is just no way to please everyone.

[devilsknew]

I get asked this a lot, but I don't see it as rude. I usually don't finish everything in front of me because I have something of a small appetite (I'm little!). So I just figure it's just them not aware if I've finished or if I'm taking a break or whatnot. It's a lot better than, "Whatsamatta, you not like-a the food" or "Eat, eat, you're nothing but skin and bones."

Amateur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpMkRIXhLH0)... :D

[Yeticus Rex]

Ah, they forgot #0....

If you are sick (especially if you are coughing and/or sneezing), STAY AT HOME......do not even attempt to serve food to customers.

Also:
38.Do not call a guy a “dude.”

39. Do not call a woman “lady.”

I find this rather amusing......"Chicks and gentlemen" is acceptable then?

[Infovore]

I find this rather amusing......"Chicks and gentlemen" is acceptable then?

I read that more as, "Don't say 'Hey, lady, what are you having?'" rather than "the lady and the gentleman."

I had to read it twice before I got that, though--my first though was the same as yours. :)

[devilsknew]

<< 23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer, etc. >>

Holy crap, really? I guess I can see this as an above-and-beyond thing, but as a habitual thing to be expected when someone says they liked the wine??

Well, in all fairness I have seen a really nifty, wine label, steam peeler designed specifically for the job, back in the day. The new removal technique, or the modern technology in the wine label removal kit is this laminate tape system (http://www.winevine-imports.com/Wine-Label-Removers-BUY-2-GET-1-FREE-pr-248.html?gclid=CNv5ocqC9p0CFcZM5QodoUaupw).

I can see this as a signature service, and not something that automatically takes time away from my table. Standards are good, I just don't like the wethering of the flock. It's all relative.

Again, the relativity thing. this kind of above and beyond label service, of course, is entirely dependent on what kind of backing both managerial and practically the server has behind them. Does he plan on having a dedicated wine label steamer that zips it off in seconds, or do I have to stand in the kitchen over a pot of boiling water and spend ten minutes steaming a freakin' wine label off of some shitty merlot bottle, while I could actually be, ya know, serving my six top, four fourtops, a single and a deuce? Will I have bussers?

Will they give me the technology to make it quick and elegant? Will I have enough resources to make it top quality-- the best backing staff and managers? I usually assume, no, because IME when the rubber meets the road- lists, rulebooks, and the hard and fast go out the window and you have to deal with people as individuals and the red line (financial) as the bottom line.

Now, if this restauranteur is thinking of competing with La Bernardin (http://www.le-bernardin.com/), as it might seem to be, then it is a good list and makes more sense, but he might want to depersonalize it. This list sounds like the rantings of some obsessive compulsive, old queen, like that Jeff Lewis, Flipper Dude.

[Jackmannii]

People should just show up at restaurants with placards announcing the things they would like and not like the server to do. I've thought about making a small, tasteful sign for the table to read "Please don't ask me how the food tastes.* Servers started doing this some years back. I do not want to give a review of the food for you. "How is everything?" or "Can I get you anything else?" are fine. 10. Do not inject your personal favorites when explaining the specials.It's good this made the list. I don't give a rat's ass what your favorite entree or dessert is. If there's a relevant warning, like if extraterrestrial creatures are infesting the marinara, then that's OK.


*I've also considered responding to this question with a rejoinder like "Too much fucking tarragon." But it's not worth the risk.

[Scarlett67]

I've thought about making a small, tasteful sign for the table to read "Please don't ask me how the food tastes.* Servers started doing this some years back. I do not want to give a review of the food for you. "How is everything?" or "Can I get you anything else?" are fine.

I got a form of this just the other night: "How is everything tasting?" Gah. Yeah, that one bugs me too, and I don't know why. Perhaps because it neglects anything else that might need attention: "Well, the food tastes fine, but there's a bug in my water glass." Or because the taste may be irrelevant: "Well, this is about the blandest shit I've ever eaten, but my friends wanted to eat here and I just got dragged along." Maybe Jackmanii has it right: I'm not here to review the food, I just want to eat.

I would also prefer a simple "How is everything?"

-----------------------
I forget, was this on the list? Please give me a chance to order a drink on my own before you rattle off all the choices. I HATE HATE HATE having to sit through a recitation of every Pepsi product on the face of the planet when I'm going to be having water. This happens with salad dressings too. Given a chance, I will usually ask, "Do you have a vinaigrette?" and they usually do. I don't need to know about the parmesan peppercorn, honey mustard, creamy ranch, spicy French, Thousand Island, hot bacon, etc. (and damn it, they almost always list the vinaigrette LAST).

If I need the list, I'll ask and will listen politely. (I also listen politely instead of interrupting when I get a list I didn't ask for and don't need, but I'm steaming on the inside.) Otherwise, give me a chance to tell you what I want up front and we can both save some time.

[devilsknew]

Ya know, the first half and the second half of this list seem like it came from two different people. This list is absolutely schizophrenic when I read it again, it almost seems like a bunch of advice hodgepodged from a group of different chefs and resteraunteurs... it is really very direct object, very outside looking in... but as good, practical, advice for a server, not so much. This is the eternal bitchin' customer list, what it has to do with the proper keeping of a warm hearth and Inn, I have no idea.

[devilsknew]

My philosophy when it comes to this list, just show me what you want me to do... not what you don't want me to do. That bridge will come and I won't burn it, either way. Reception, Connection, and Volition (RCV)... through these you give great service.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Ah, they forgot #0....

If you are sick (especially if you are coughing and/or sneezing), STAY AT HOME......do not even attempt to serve food to customers. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! If my server is coughing or sneezing or just wiping his nose, then I will probably wonder why the manager hasn't noticed this and sent him home. And I am likely to get up and try to find the manager to express my extreme displeasure, and then go out in search of another place to eat. And customers should also stay home, if they're sick. Some things simply should not be shared.

[gigi]

I've thought about making a small, tasteful sign for the table to read "Please don't ask me how the food tastes.* Servers started doing this some years back. I do not want to give a review of the food for you. "How is everything?" or "Can I get you anything else?" are fine.

I once had a waiter at Applebee's ask about my dessert: "Is it everything you dreamed it would be?" Could I really quantify such a thing?

[gigi]

*I've also considered responding to this question with a rejoinder like "Too much fucking tarragon." But it's not worth the risk.

Speaking of smart remarks, my friend mentioned this one:

"If you need anything, my name is Bob."

"What's your name if we don't need anything?"


**Don't worry, I wouldn't do it.

[norinew]

I once had a waiter at Applebee's ask about my dessert: "Is it everything you dreamed it would be?" Could I really quantify such a thing?
Being the smart-ass I am, I probably would have smiled my biggest smile and said "All that, and more!!" and left her (him?) wondering if I were completely present, in a mental sense. . .but that's just me.

[neuroman]

I don't think I have ever once had a server point out that an auto-gratuity had been added--which I find fairly despicable. Either they're lazy, or more likely, they're hoping you overtip.

It is also exceedingly rare for a server to tell you the prices of specials. Look jackass, everyone knows the specials are invariably more expensive, how about you just tell me? I don't hear prices on specials more than 1 time in 6 without asking.

[Sunspace]

I once had a waiter at Applebee's ask about my dessert: "Is it everything you dreamed it would be?" Could I really quantify such a thing?*blink*
I would have said something like, "Well, I was hoping it would bring peace to Central Asia, but I'll settle for it bringing peace to my digestive tract." :)

[Mister Rik]

It is also exceedingly rare for a server to tell you the prices of specials. Look jackass, everyone knows the specials are invariably more expensive, how about you just tell me?

I guess this depends, again, on the level of restaurant. In most of the places I've cooked, "special" = "bargain", which explains why so many retirees order "the special" without asking what it is. Of course, that gave me the evil idea that, if I had my own restaurant, I could make a killing by posting daily "specials" that are merely regular menu items marked up a dollar. Let's hear it for taking advantage of the elderly! :D

[norinew]

I guess this depends, again, on the level of restaurant. In most of the places I've cooked, "special" = "bargain", which explains why so many retirees order "the special" without asking what it is. Of course, that gave me the evil idea that, if I had my own restaurant, I could make a killing by posting daily "specials" that are merely regular menu items marked up a dollar. Let's hear it for taking advantage of the elderly! :D
This idea is almost evil enough for me to endorse! It depends, though: are we talking about the kinds of seniors who smile, nod at you in public and randomly give you home-baked goods, or are we talking about the seniors who cross the street, at a slow crawl, and not at an intersection, brandishing their walkers in front of them like a deadly weapon? ;)

IME, in an upscale restaurant, "Special" means "Something we don't normally feature on the menu, but we have it tonight, so expect to pay premium prices for it", and at my neighborhood diner, "Special" means "We normally sell four pieces of fried chicken, with a side and a dinner roll for $7.50, but it's on special tonight, so that price tag includes an extra side, and also a beverage and a cup of pudding".

It's all in the context!

[bouv]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! If my server is coughing or sneezing or just wiping his nose, then I will probably wonder why the manager hasn't noticed this and sent him home. And I am likely to get up and try to find the manager to express my extreme displeasure, and then go out in search of another place to eat. And customers should also stay home, if they're sick. Some things simply should not be shared.

Never worked on a restaurant, have you? It's notoriously difficult to get sent home because you're sick, and it's even harder to actually call out sick. We don't get sick days, so 99% of the time it's up to you to find someone who's nice enough to take your shift. Unless you can do that, or provide evidence that you're REALLY sick (a simple cold, cough, or massive hangover won't do, we're talking at least flu-level) you'll get docked a good shift, or fired.

[JR Brown]

**I've never lived in Europe, but I've traveled there a bit. And 'you have to ask' is what I've observed in NYC and Latin America, and I'm told both operate a bit more like Europe. If you know what I mean then pls let me know if you have a better way to say it.

Oooyeah, if Mexico is anything to go by. One evening in some semi-upscale restaurant in a midsize town, Mom & I decided to wait for the waiters to offer us the check rather than be asked for it. We got to about 5 minutes before the posted closing hour before one finally broke down and sidled over to ask if we were *quite* finished...

[JR Brown]

It means you assumed that there was the possibility that you MIGHT be getting a tip. You need to be put into your place, you rascal. How dare you assume that your betters would reward you for the privilege of waiting on them? Just for that, you get nothing. :D

No, really, I don't get it, but that's the vibe I get from a LOT of people.

I almost always want the change because I don't have the right combination of small bills to leave the exact amount of "cost plus proper tip"; if I don't get change back I can either leave a too-small tip or an extravagantly generous one. Guess which you'll get if I can't get change.

[Mister Rik]

This idea is almost evil enough for me to endorse! It depends, though: are we talking about the kinds of seniors who smile, nod at you in public and randomly give you home-baked goods, or are we talking about the seniors who cross the street, at a slow crawl, and not at an intersection, brandishing their walkers in front of them like a deadly weapon? ;)
Nah, I'm talking more about the retirees who eat nearly every meal out and who tend to go to the same restaurant day after day after day. They never look at the menu, they just sit down and tell the waitress, "I'll have the special", and they eat the special, whatever it happens to be.

The thing I've never figured out is seniors who always go to "all you can eat" buffets, apparently because it's a "bargain". Except the buffet price tends to be a bit more than a single meal at a regular sit-down restaurant that serves similar food, and for many of these seniors, "all you can eat" just isn't that much.

IME, in an upscale restaurant, "Special" means "Something we don't normally feature on the menu, but we have it tonight, so expect to pay premium prices for it", and at my neighborhood diner, "Special" means "We normally sell four pieces of fried chicken, with a side and a dinner roll for $7.50, but it's on special tonight, so that price tag includes an extra side, and also a beverage and a cup of pudding".

It's all in the context!
Yup. In most of the places I've cooked, the "special" has just been a regular menu item with a buck or two knocked off the price.

Never worked on a restaurant, have you? It's notoriously difficult to get sent home because you're sick, and it's even harder to actually call out sick. We don't get sick days, so 99% of the time it's up to you to find someone who's nice enough to take your shift. Unless you can do that, or provide evidence that you're REALLY sick (a simple cold, cough, or massive hangover won't do, we're talking at least flu-level) you'll get docked a good shift, or fired.

Heh. When I used to read Dear Abby I'd periodically see letters from people complaining about coworkers who come to work sick. I assume those people have never had to call in sick themselves, because in my experience, when you call in sick the boss automatically assumes you're lying, and even if he doesn't come out and call you a liar, his tone of voice makes it pretty clear he thinks you're feeding him a line of shit. "Are you sure? Well you know, this is gonna leave us short-handed ... etc., etc." I think a lot of people would rather just come in and tough it out than have to listen to that.

[Balthisar]

Oooyeah, if Mexico is anything to go by. One evening in some semi-upscale restaurant in a midsize town, Mom & I decided to wait for the waiters to offer us the check rather than be asked for it. We got to about 5 minutes before the posted closing hour before one finally broke down and sidled over to ask if we were *quite* finished...
I wish more American restaurants were like this. Whenever a waitperson brings me a bill without my having asked for it, I feel like I'm being run out of the place. I avoid restaurants that I know do this, unless I'm really, really in the mood for a coney or gyro. ;)

Oh, yeah, and not bringing the bill until requested is completely normal in Mexico, where restaurants make their money by selling food at prices that don't require a 45 minute turnover to make a profit.

[Malthus]

Never worked on a restaurant, have you? It's notoriously difficult to get sent home because you're sick, and it's even harder to actually call out sick. We don't get sick days, so 99% of the time it's up to you to find someone who's nice enough to take your shift. Unless you can do that, or provide evidence that you're REALLY sick (a simple cold, cough, or massive hangover won't do, we're talking at least flu-level) you'll get docked a good shift, or fired.

In that case, the fault is that of the management. If they are so inflexible as to not reasonably provide for the possibility that staff may be sick on occasion and essentially force them to come into work if sick, they deserve to lose customers put off permanently by the sight of waitstaff sneezing with an obvious cold while holding food - which personally I find almost as gross as finding a cockaroach in the salad.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Never worked on a restaurant, have you? It's notoriously difficult to get sent home because you're sick, and it's even harder to actually call out sick. We don't get sick days, so 99% of the time it's up to you to find someone who's nice enough to take your shift. Unless you can do that, or provide evidence that you're REALLY sick (a simple cold, cough, or massive hangover won't do, we're talking at least flu-level) you'll get docked a good shift, or fired. No, not really. I worked as a waitress for a couple of weeks, but I wasn't sick during that span, and I never tried to find someone to cover for me. I don't think that a short span like that qualifies me as an expert on working in a restaurant.

However, AS A CUSTOMER, if I'm served by someone who looks and acts contagious, I'm not eating there that day, and quite possibly I'll never eat there again. This is not my problem, it's management's problem. I already have my solution. Management has to decide whether to staff the place at reasonable levels, or to lose me as a customer permanently. I'm generally considered a good customer, and I've had several servers and managers tell me that they wished that more people were like me. I don't demand free food, if the place is out of one item I'm usually more than willing to try another, and I tip well. However, I do insist that my food is fit to be eaten. This means that the kitchen must be moderately sanitary, and my server must be non-contagious.

[Kevbo]

On clearing plates:

As an American, it took me a while to catch on, but in Austria (and I think it is widespread in Europe) it is the custom to place your knife and fork parallel on the plate to signal that you are finished eating and would like the plate cleared from the table. Your plate will then soon disappear without the wait staff interrupting your dinner conversation. Similarly, they don't ever ask if you "are still working on that" because the fact that you are either holding your knife and fork (in R&L hand, respectively) or have rested them orthogonally on the plate clearly indicates this to be the case.

Along with standing to the right to allow passing on escalators this is something I wish Americans would cotton to. I have dined in a couple of upper scale US restaurants where the wait staff seemed familiar with this...possibly owned by Europeans?

[Scarlett67]

Along with standing to the right to allow passing on escalators this is something I wish Americans would cotton to.

Hell, most Americans can't master "please, "thank you," and "excuse me," and you think they're going to start using some secret utensil code?

(I say this as an American who would love to see it happen. But it won't.)

[Mister Rik]

As an American, it took me a while to catch on, but in Austria (and I think it is widespread in Europe) it is the custom to place your knife and fork parallel on the plate to signal that you are finished eating and would like the plate cleared from the table.
The "signal" I learned was to place the knife diagonally on the plate, then place the fork on top of it at the opposite angle with the tines crossing the blade of the knife.

Along with standing to the right to allow passing on escalators this is something I wish Americans would cotton to.
Escalators? Hah! I'm continually shaking my head at the number of people who want to enter an elevator and it apparently never crosses their mind that somebody else might be exiting.

[CookingWithGas]

On clearing plates:

As an American, it took me a while to catch on, but in Austria (and I think it is widespread in Europe) it is the custom to place your knife and fork parallel on the plate to signal that you are finished eating and would like the plate cleared from the table.It is also widespread in America1. Handles pointing to the 4:00 position (or thereabouts).

_______________________
1. Martin, Judith, "Miss Manners' guide to excruciatingly correct behavior," W.W. Norton, New York, p. 171

[CookingWithGas]

The "signal" I learned was to place the knife diagonally on the plate, then place the fork on top of it at the opposite angle with the tines crossing the blade of the knife.This is the signal for "I'm not done yet." ibid.

[Mister Rik]

This is the signal for "I'm not done yet." ibid.

Good to know :smack:

[drastic_quench]

It is also widespread in America1. Handles pointing to the 4:00 position (or thereabouts).

_______________________
1. Martin, Judith, "Miss Manners' guide to excruciatingly correct behavior," W.W. Norton, New York, p. 171

I grew up with this rule.

[devilsknew]

Speaking of platten etiquette, Is there any time it is ok to serve from the left?

[bengangmo]

On clearing plates:

As an American, it took me a while to catch on, but in Austria (and I think it is widespread in Europe) it is the custom to place your knife and fork parallel on the plate to signal that you are finished eating and would like the plate cleared from the table. Your plate will then soon disappear without the wait staff interrupting your dinner conversation. Similarly, they don't ever ask if you "are still working on that" because the fact that you are either holding your knife and fork (in R&L hand, respectively) or have rested them orthogonally on the plate clearly indicates this to be the case.

Along with standing to the right to allow passing on escalators this is something I wish Americans would cotton to. I have dined in a couple of upper scale US restaurants where the wait staff seemed familiar with this...possibly owned by Europeans?

Seconded for New Zealand. but I don't think it widespread enough to be actually used. Definitely if I wanted my plate cleared it would be signalled by [placing knife and fork together and pushing plate back from edge of table an inch or two

[Recliner]

<< 23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer, etc. >>

Holy crap, really? I guess I can see this as an above-and-beyond thing, but as a habitual thing to be expected when someone says they liked the wine??

Does anyone even know how to steam off labels? Is there a device?

[NineToTheSky]

Does anyone even know how to steam off labels? Is there a device?
Please see my earlier post. I used to take off labels in my restaurant to use in the wine list. The ease or difficulty depended on the label. The worst were at the opposite ends of the sprectum. Some cheaper bottles use industrial grade glue, and nothing short of a nuclear device could remove them. At the other end, labels on, say, fifty year old clarets were so delicate that it was almost impossible not to tear them. In between, they used to come off quite easily.

I'm not aware of any devices. I just used to either steam or soak them.

[CookingWithGas]

Speaking of platten etiquette, Is there any time it is ok to serve from the left?Always. Serving from the left is the standard form. Clear from the right.

[Floater]

Handles pointing to the 4:00 position (or thereabouts).

Always. Serving from the left is the standard form. Clear from the right.
And these "rules" (plus some others) are there because most of us are right-handed. It's easier to take things from a platter if it's to the left of you. Likewise it's easier to put a plate in front of or remove from a seated person with your right hand from the right side and if the knife and fork are in a 4:00 position they are easier to handle when you place them on the plate you're holding in your left hand while placing other plates on your wrist.

[devilsknew]

Always. Serving from the left is the standard form. Clear from the right.

Sorry, I meant is there ever an appropriate time to do vice versey... serve from the right, remove from the left? Because it is not a hard and fast rule, depending on seating and place setting. Seating and complicated multicourse settings I have found can sometimes turn organic in "big top" tables, pulling together banquettes and large tables, and coming and going mingling customers, can make for times when best judgement is etiquette. The server can play his etiquette card and try to confab the table, or the server can follow the lead and organic synthesis of the table.

[Argent Towers]

As was discussed at length earlier in the thread, the list is by someone who is planning to open a restaurant. He has no prior restaurant experience, and this is how he plans to run his new place.

This makes me laugh. I wonder how many months his restaurant is going to last? I think instead of compiling Leviticus-like lists of dos and don'ts for the waitstaff, he should educate himself about such unglamorous but far more important things like garbage removal, fire-code and health-code regulations, liquor licenses, gas bills, plumbing, ways of reducing the overhead cost, how to keep the books, how to screen potential employees who are going to be criminals, drug addicts, or thieves. If he has no prior restaurant experience, unless he's from a real-estate background and already has knowledge of how to operate a service-based business, or he is the heir to a large fortune that he can burn through, I think he's better off running a fantasy restaurant in his head than going straight into the enterprise with the mindset of trying to implement his fantasies.

[devilsknew]

Always. Serving from the left is the standard form. Clear from the right.

This makes me laugh. I wonder how many months his restaurant is going to last? I think instead of compiling Leviticus-like lists of dos and don'ts for the waitstaff, he should educate himself about such unglamorous but far more important things like garbage removal, fire-code and health-code regulations, liquor licenses, gas bills, plumbing, ways of reducing the overhead cost, how to keep the books, how to screen potential employees who are going to be criminals, drug addicts, or thieves. If he has no prior restaurant experience, unless he's from a real-estate background and already has knowledge of how to operate a service-based business, or he is the heir to a large fortune that he can burn through, I think he's better off running a fantasy restaurant in his head than going straight into the enterprise with the mindset of trying to implement his fantasies.

Yes, these are very, very, important, but I think you are being a bit too harsh. These are conceptualizations, even I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. A Restaurant conception is probably the "real" architecture of a restaurant as it is being built. You want a structure in place, and to start off on the right foot... that is peobably more important in a fine dining adventure, than anything else... a christening and a special something that sets your dining experience apart. You want the standards to ensure that none of these other "practical conditions" that you place will ever become a worry, because of proper ambience and service, as provided by a team.. Set the tone first and foremost and everything comes after... like I said standards are good, but you must be worldclass... there is no halfway.

[devilsknew]

If he does this right, just judging by the vibe, hinging on who is the Chef behind this Restaurant, his Restaurant could be like the Le bernardin of the French Laundry class of Michelin Star restaurants.

[Argent Towers]

The restaurant business will chew you up and spit you out. I have seen, personally, the downfall of too many restaurants - great restaurants, at that - to have anything but the most cynical outlook towards them. With no restaurant experience, this guy is only going to be a success if he is very, very rich, and/or has an extremely canny sense for the service industry and background in real estate or any other kind of intensive property management. Even the very, very rich part won't guarantee success. Depending on his own ego and determination, he could lose a hell of a lot of money. He could go broke, if he really failed hard.

Yes the atmosphere, the presentation, the service, the whole "experience" - of course this is what separates the good restaurants from the great restaurants. But that refinement can only come after years of the nuts-and-bolts of the business.

[Balthisar]

The restaurant business will chew you up and spit you out. I have seen, personally, the downfall of too many restaurants - great restaurants, at that - to have anything but the most cynical outlook towards them.
I wonder (seriously!) how all of the crappy, low-end restaurants stay around and survive. I don't mean big, national chains like Denny's (presumably they have enough good stores located somewhere that balances out the ones in Michigan that universally suck). But I mean all of the tiny little "family style" restaurants that have Denny's-like menus and Denny's-like service. Ram's Horn. Johnny's Ham III. Bubba's Coney Island.

If I were to ever be a restauranteur, this is not the concept that I'd emulate, however it appears to be successful for whatever reason.

[elbows]

Sheesh, how did I miss that this guy has no real restaurant experience?

I always tell people the recipe for a successful restaurant is three simple ingredients;
Good food, warm atmosphere, great service. Simple, huh?

Of course, it's equally true that there are literally thousands of ways for any restaurant, with those three ingredients, to still go wrong.

No experience, yikes, I'm a little scared for the guy now.

[CookingWithGas]

Sorry, I meant is there ever an appropriate time to do vice versey... serve from the right, remove from the left? Because it is not a hard and fast rule, depending on seating and place setting. Seating and complicated multicourse settings I have found can sometimes turn organic in "big top" tables, pulling together banquettes and large tables, and coming and going mingling customers, can make for times when best judgement is etiquette. The server can play his etiquette card and try to confab the table, or the server can follow the lead and organic synthesis of the table.This "rule" was developed in the context of formal dinners with domestic servants, and I believe may have been adapted to some extent to more formal restaurant settings. But in restuarants the guests are not served from platters by a waiter, so it doens't matter so much in any practical sense and very few people even think about it at all.

[Mister Rik]

Sheesh, how did I miss that this guy has no real restaurant experience?

Well, I pointed it out way back in post #39:

His little bio there says this:

"Bruce Buschel — an author, magazine writer, co-creator of an Off Broadway musical, and director/producer of jazz films — writes about his latest venture: building and starting a seafood restaurant."

Yeeeaaah... clearly fully qualified to enter the restaurant business One of the changes I've noticed in my 2+ decades in the business is that, where local restaurants used to be owned and run by actual restaurant people — cooks/chefs/waiters who spent years working in the industry before starting up their own, nowadays more and more restaurants are being opened by people who were successful and made their money in a completely unrelated industry, and now they think it would be cool to own a restaurant. And too many of those people have a fantasy idea of how a restaurant works. The ones I've seen have success in restaurants are the ones who are clever/non-egotistical enough to accept that they don't know the business, and so they hire people with experience and let them do their jobs. The failures are the ones who think their success in another industry will automatically translate to success in restaurants, and try to micromanage everything.

Unless this guy has some extensive past experience in the business that he has neglected to mention, his smartest move will be to provide the concept and the financial backing, then hire competent people to handle the actual day-to-day running of the place, and keep his own hands off.

[Auntbeast]

Speaking of smart remarks, my friend mentioned this one:

"If you need anything, my name is Bob."

"What's your name if we don't need anything?"


**Don't worry, I wouldn't do it.

I would love you FOREVER if you did that. I love folks that break out of the mold.

The No Touching Rule: Bugs me. I tend to touch someone lightly on the shoulder when I am coming up behind them to clear a plate or fill their glass. I'd startled a few folks before I started doing it. It is one thing when they can see you coming, another when they can't. I suppose I could yell "Boo!"

I'm working at a very laid back, home style restaurant. Lots of seasonal regulars. Customers like being remembered. The owner? Doesn't think we should speak to the customers one word more than is necessary to take their orders. The problem with that? I'm obviously not from here and get asked a lot why I moved here, how I like living here, etc. I'm in a vacation spot, everyone that comes here pretty much wants to move here.

As with any rules, especially if you have 100 of them, your mileage may vary. Having a server that can feel out their customers needs, versus one that rigidly applies a set of rules, is worth far more than $2.15 an hour.

[bengangmo]

and damn it, they almost always list the vinaigrette LAST.

.

Nah - the Zambezi water lemon crisp is always last - you should just learn to like American mayonaisse

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

The No Touching Rule: Bugs me. I tend to touch someone lightly on the shoulder when I am coming up behind them to clear a plate or fill their glass.As with most other things, it depends. If you try to serve dinner when I'm telling a tale and gesticulating wildly, I'd rather have you touch my shoulder to get my attention than end up letting me accidentally knock a plate of food across the table. I have no problem at all with you making contact as you squeeze by in a crowded restaurant, or brushing against me as you reach in to put a drink on the table. It's tough not to.

But I don't appreciate having a waitress stand with her hand on my shoulder while reciting the specials (which has happened to me several times).

[Recliner]

I see this happening in some of the chains I go to, and I believe that it's actually encouraged by the management. Also, kneeling to take an order is supposed to generate bigger tips, on average. Personally, I don't want one of the restaurant staff to sit down at my table unless I invite him or her, nor do I want someone to kneel to take my order. I have, on occasion, asked a staffer to sit down if they have the time, but I always leave them a face-saving excuse.

I've only seen the "sit down with the group" thing at big chain "family" joints like TGI Fridays, Applebees, etc. I have little doubt its either encouraged or at least completely tolerated by management, because it seems confined to these kinds of places -- and places like these have everything about their business codified. I assume some study somewhere found that the "sitting down" thing made people feel "at home", or encouraged people to order appetizers and booze (much like how these places actively SUGGEST appetizers and booze). So there's a profit motive somewhere, and despite people claiming they don't like it, somewhere someone's demonstrated that its effective.

Another good reason to avoid family chain restaurants. They're a little too clever with parting you from your money. And they do it in ways that they know actively annoy people.

[Lynn Bodoni]

I've only seen the "sit down with the group" thing at big chain "family" joints like TGI Fridays, Applebees, etc. Apparently, Hooters girls are encouraged to sit down with the customers when they aren't busy elsewhere. My brother loves Hooters because of this.

[ivylass]

Apparently, Hooters girls are encouraged to sit down with the customers when they aren't busy elsewhere. My brother loves Hooters because of this.

So if Ethel over at Mo's Diner sits down with your brother, he'll like it too? ;)