To all my friends and family who told me I'd do well on my comprehensive exams...

[statsman1982]

Fuck you! You don't know a good goddamn thing about what I"m doing in this program. You know what? I have to do oral exams for half of the exam now, because my performance on them was "marginal" according to my advisor. Now, I have to stand in front of the three statistics faculty members who wrote my questions and give an oral defense in order to move on to candidacy.

"You don't have anything to worry about," you said. "You're perfectly prepared," you said. Shut the fuck up! Clearly I wasn't prepared or I wouldn't have to do an oral exam. And what would you know about anything anyway? You barely have college diplomas. You have no idea about the requirements of a doctoral program.

So from now own, keep your encouragement to yourself. Fuck!

[woodstockbirdybird]

Sounds to me like you'll have no problem.

[statsman1982]

Sounds to me like you'll have no problem.

Fuck you, too.

[woodstockbirdybird]

Sorry, I don't fuck anyone who can't get their doctorates. It's a kink of mine. Get back to me when you finish the exams.

[statsman1982]

What exactly was the point of your first post?

[billfish678]

Sounds to me like two folks here are good at bending over...or are getting there...

[MeanOldLady]

To be an ass, mainly, and get under your skin. It's working, no? Obviously in response to post #5.

[Rumor_Watkins]

let me guess? you're a sociopath aren't you?

[ToeJam]

:hug: There there, it sucks at first.... But the key is not to give up. I'm sure if you try your best you'll be able to succeed next time, and if not, keep on trying and never give up!

Everyone's been there at some point in life, and it's never fun. Good luck.

DABDA.

[Scarlett67]

Yeah, fuck them for trying to be supportive. Assholes.

[statsman1982]

To be an ass, mainly, and get under your skin. It's working, no? Obviously in response to post #5.

No. I calmly, rationally typed that "fuck you" earlier. I was merely being consistent with the OP. Why he (she, it?) took it as a come-on, I don't know. I'm pretty certain there is nothing anyone can say to make me feel worse than I already do.

[statsman1982]

Yeah, fuck them for trying to be supportive. Assholes.

There's a difference between being supportive and talking out one's ass. I would never tell, say, my cancer-stricken father that I just know everything will be alright. I have no fucking idea whether he'll be alright. I can hope, but I can't offer guarantees.

It's the same to me as when someone offers platitudes at a funeral to the effect of, "Well, he's in a better place now. You can be thankful for that." It's trite and presumptuous.

Of course, these are my thoughts at the moment. I'm a bit biased due to the situation.

[Koxinga]

We know you're doing fine because . . . well . . . you've always seemed so smart to us, and we know you work hard . . . don't you? There's . . . not anything wrong, is there?

[Rumor_Watkins]

There's a difference between being supportive and talking out one's ass. I would never tell, say, my cancer-stricken father that I just know everything will be alright. I have no fucking idea whether he'll be alright. I can hope, but I can't offer guarantees.

It's the same to me as when someone offers platitudes at a funeral to the effect of, "Well, he's in a better place now. You can be thankful for that." It's trite and presumptuous.

Of course, these are my thoughts at the moment. I'm a bit biased due to the situation.

Yes. Because when your cancer-stricken father has a look in his eyes of fear, I'm sure you will just blankly stare back, unable to offer a compassionate word.

Like I said, sociopath.

[billfish678]

Well,

Hallmark doesnt make a "fuck you, we hope you fail with great flair" card....so whats a friend or relative to do ?

You oughta be glad somebody actually gives a flying fuck about how you do and are ignorantly hoping you suceed. Plenty of folks don't even have that.

[MsWhatsit]

I bet you're the kind of person who bitches about getting Christmas presents because then you feel obligated to say thank you and maybe even get a gift for the other person, and all of that shit, and you never even asked for a present anyway. GOD.

[Kozmik]

"You don't have anything to worry about," you said. "You're perfectly prepared," you said. Shut the fuck up! Clearly I wasn't prepared or I wouldn't have to do an oral exam.But you are prepared for the oral exam.

[sinjin]

Fuck you! You don't know a good goddamn thing about what I"m doing in this program. You know what? I have to do oral exams for half of the exam now, because my performance on them was "marginal" according to my advisor. Now, I have to stand in front of the three statistics faculty members who wrote my questions and give an oral defense in order to move on to candidacy.

"You don't have anything to worry about," you said. "You're perfectly prepared," you said. Shut the fuck up! Clearly I wasn't prepared or I wouldn't have to do an oral exam. And what would you know about anything anyway? You barely have college diplomas. You have no idea about the requirements of a doctoral program.

So from now own, keep your encouragement to yourself. Fuck!

So they should have said:

"Statsman, you're a wanker, you'll never pass, give up now."

I am not seeing why you are so angry with the lay people who encouraged you. If as you say, they're clueless about what you're going thru, why did you put any stock into what they were saying in the first place? If in your heart you felt you weren't up to snuff to take the exam why did you even listen to their uninformed opinions? Why didn't you put it off and study longer? On another note, it is usually your adviser who determines your readiness to take the exams. If anyone is to blame it's him, unless of course he suggested you wait longer and you chose to proceed without his blessing (seen that happen before, not pretty).

FWIW, many people do not pass their qualifiers the first time. Don't give up, stay the course :cool:

[elbows]

"I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning to sail my ship!"

[statsman1982]

Rumor Watkins, you really have no idea how far off the mark you are on the sociopath diagnosis. I'm sure you're an excellent psychologist IRL (you are,right?), but you missed this one. If you had read some of my other posts, I think you would have come to a different conclusion.

To everyone else, I regret very much starting this thread an hour ago. I really do value my friends, and I recognize how lucky I am to have them. My problem is depression mixed with anxiety. I've been taking Paxil and BuSpar for a while now, and recently started Welbutrin. Lately, I've been feeling depressed and panicky more often than usual, probably because I've been under a great deal of pressure with my program. Getting the news about having to do orals sent me into a kind of meltdown about an hour ago. It was then that I hastily started this thread. In the future, I'll just go have a beer.

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to request that this thread be killed. It's really not pit-worthy and it seems to be wasting everyone's time.

ETA: I have been seeing a student-therapist at the Psychology department on campus here for about a year and a half now. I don't know what else I can do.

[nameless]

Christ.

Quals are tough times. But I'm sympathetic to the plight of everyone who has to drag your ass through them. Because you do need a lot of support in those times; you just get run ragged. Your advisor, your family, your friends, your partner--everyone carries a little bit of it--not as much as you do, mind, but a little. And it sucks! They don't get have shots bought for them at the end of it! What else can you say, other than "You'll do great!" There is literally nothing else to say.

So suck it up. Pass your exams. Then get ridiculously drunk and realize that it was never that hard to begin with. I promise you will.

-nameless, PhC as of one week ago

[Rumor_Watkins]

Jesus, and I was being 100% sarcastic with my pseudo mental health diagnosis.

Now I realize I was actually only 99% sarcastic.

[Gfactor]

Fuck you, too.

Reminder:


The following expressions should not be directed at other posters.

* * * *

fuck you http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to request that this thread be killed. It's really not pit-worthy and it seems to be wasting everyone's time.

Granted. But if anybody objects (PM me or just report a post from this thread if you do), I'll reopen it.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

[Gfactor]

Some folks still want to post in this thread. Reopened.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

[statsman1982]

Rumor Watkins, you really have no idea how far off the mark you are on the sociopath diagnosis. I'm sure you're an excellent psychologist IRL (you are,right?), but you missed this one. If you had read some of my other posts, I think you would have come to a different conclusion.

To everyone else, I regret very much starting this thread an hour ago. I really do value my friends, and I recognize how lucky I am to have them. My problem is depression mixed with anxiety. I've been taking Paxil and BuSpar for a while now, and recently started Welbutrin. Lately, I've been feeling depressed and panicky more often than usual, probably because I've been under a great deal of pressure with my program. Getting the news about having to do orals sent me into a kind of meltdown about an hour ago. It was then that I hastily started this thread. In the future, I'll just go have a beer.

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to request that this thread be killed. It's really not pit-worthy and it seems to be wasting everyone's time.

ETA: I have been seeing a student-therapist at the Psychology department on campus here for about a year and a half now. I don't know what else I can do.

I'm really shocked that after writing the above, essentially pointing out that my OP was childish lashing out, anyone would want to add anything to this thread. If you want to berate me for the OP, why not pit me? Otherwise, I'm puzzled as to what else needs to be said here.

[MsWhatsit]

Well, it wasn't me. I feel a little bad about my snarky post up-thread, in light of your subsequent post detailing your issues with depression and whatnot. Hope it gets better, man.

[RickJay]

How does one tell the difference between depression mixed with anxiety, and just being a self-centred fuckwheel?

[Idle Thoughts]

I'm glad this thread was reopened. While I have no beef with the OP specifically, it's always seemed to be the way of the boards to let assholic OPs go on and let them lie in the bed they made, so to speak. Closing it seems to allow the person to escape being called out on it if he or she is, in fact, in the wrong or behaving like a jerk.

[Euphonious Polemic]

How does one tell the difference between depression mixed with anxiety, and just being a self-centred fuckwheel?

I would assume a diagnosis from a physician. What's your excuse?

[Pray for peace]

statsman, I just wanted to let you know that it's not that unusual to have an oral exam as part of your qualifying exam. Yes, it's stressful, but it does help to prepare you for your thesis defense and exam, which I assume will be oral. Hang in there and good luck. :)

[statsman1982]

How does one tell the difference between depression mixed with anxiety, and just being a self-centred fuckwheel?

I don't know. How does one tell the difference between someone with poor reading comprehension skills and someone willfully ignoring the fact that I already addressed this a few posts back?

[Scarlett67]

Closing it seems to allow the person to escape being called out on it if he or she is, in fact, in the wrong or behaving like a jerk.

Did you miss the mea culpa in post #20? It's not like he was continuing to be a jerk. He explained why the thread was a mistake, and the tone of that post was that he knew he was in the wrong and overreacted. Close enough to an apology for me. And another "way of the boards" has always been to let someone off the hook when they're big enough to admit they were wrong.

[MOIDALIZE]

I give you a 75% chance of doing fine, give or take 25%.

[statsman1982]

...While I have no beef with the OP specifically, it's always seemed to be the way of the boards to let assholic OPs go on and let them lie in the bed they made, so to speak...

I don't intend to post anything more than responses to other posts, so there's really no "bed making" to expect. If someone really wants to give me what-for (even after my explanation a few posts up), why not start a new pit thread instead?

[mswas]

You're going to fail miserably, burn-out, have a nervous breakdown and end up a shell of your former self, doomed to using your fancy education on the long slow climb the zenith of mediocrity as a corporate middle-manager.

[statsman1982]

You're going to fail miserably, burn-out, have a nervous breakdown and end up a shell of your former self, doomed to using your fancy education on the long slow climb the zenith of mediocrity as a corporate middle-manager.

Promise? You're not leading me on, are you?

[myskepticsight]

Like nameless said, the people who give a fuck about you in your life are SUPPOSED to say "Oh you'll do fine." And trust me, I KNOW what it's like to have shit like that said to me when the person doesn't have a fucking clue what they're talking about. And it makes me angry too. But I've realized even though it's annoying, I am glad I have people who give a fuck. Even with all the other shit you're dealing with, try to keep that in perspective.

[mswas]

Promise? You're not leading me on, are you?

Well I cannot say with any certainty, you might be an outlier, but I'd say that it's probable and the data supports it.

[statsman1982]

Well I cannot say with any certainty, you might be an outlier, but I'd say that it's probable and the data supports it.

Well, as I believe you to be an authority on the psychology of message board meltdowns (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529930&highlight=Mary+Kopechne), I'll take your word for it. Thanks!

[Brynda]

Hey, I won't promise you that you'll do fine, but I will wish you good luck. Sorry for the setback, but try not to let it throw you.

[BetsQ]

Statsman - just wanted to send some words of sympathy your way. I failed one of my comps on the first go. I was a basket case. It's rough going. Over the course of the following months I cried in three different profs' offices. I also found it difficult to deal with my friends'/family's expectation about my performance. So you have my sympathies. Hang in there.

[Godinama]

Sounds to me like you'll have no problem.

You've made me laugh, sir. Godspeed in all your endeavors.

[BigT]

I wanted to reopen the thread to wish you luck, but I didn't. I was going to be all mean about it, but some asshole beat me to it.

[MeanOldLady]

So are people going to stop being assholes in this thread, or what? After the reopening, it seemed like a change of pace, but that's starting to seem murky. Poor guy's having a hard time and wanted to vent about it on a message board, and people act like he drowned his favorite uncle. And I thought I was mean.

[Ferret Herder]

No kidding. This isn't exactly him going to each and every family member and telling them to go fuck themselves for their overly-optimistic encouragement.

[monstro]

People usually don't know what to say when people are stressed out.

If you're constantly talking about your worries and anxieties, you're almost begging for people to say "It'll be alright".

My brother has been unemployed for more than a year now, and when I talked to him the other day, all I could think to say was, "It will get better. I know it will." I'm sure he was rolling his eyes thinking the same thing you expressed in your OP.

The truth is IT will get better for him...someday. And for you, it WILL be alright, even if you do flunk your comps. I've known people who've flunked and were allowed to take a stab at them again and then pass. I've also known people who have dropped out of grad school and have found success without an advanced degree. Sometimes the road we want isn't the one we're supposed to take, but you'll find yourself on another path and you're home.

Comps suck, so I'm full of sympathy. The key is keeping your head screwed on and not letting yourself fall to pieces so that you can study with clarity.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

So are people going to stop being assholes in this thread, or what? After the reopening, it seemed like a change of pace, but that's starting to seem murky. Poor guy's having a hard time and wanted to vent about it on a message board, and people act like he drowned his favorite uncle. And I thought I was mean.

Normally I agree with just about everything you say. This time I'd say that if the OP just wanted to vent and talk about his hard time without anyone answering him in kind he should get a blog or journal. I'm sure he's stressed out as we all can be, but he's being very bit the sarcastic asshole as the people who are poking him.

:: awaits his O-so-clever questioning of my psychological-assessment-abilities ::

[Dangerosa]

I don't intend to post anything more than responses to other posts, so there's really no "bed making" to expect. If someone really wants to give me what-for (even after my explanation a few posts up), why not start a new pit thread instead?

We usually do it in the same thread around here. Its the way board tradition works.

I'm glad you see you recognize you were unreasonable. When my sister had breast cancer she was subjected to thousands of "it will be OK." Which was way better than the thousands of "God has a plan" or "God never sends us anything we can't handle" - cancer at 38 with a six month old infant at home....yeah, wasn't helpful. Even though, eventually, it was OK.

As someone who suffers depression and anxiety myself, my advice to you is to consciously try and change your thinking. Assume that everyone is trying to be kind and helpful - even if their words are awkward. When my kids make me breakfast in bed on Mother's Day and I come down to a kitchen that looks like the Franco-Prussian war was fought in it, I remember they are trying to be kind and helpful. When someone tells me a God who I don't believe in is sending me these trials out of love, I translate to "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" and accept the intent, if not the words used.

Another behavioral clue - as pointed out upthread, if you complain you are pretty much asking for people to say "it'll be ok." That's what people do. People do it when someone loses a child and all hope is drained from their world and the sun will never shine again, they are certainly going to do it over your exams. If you don't want that, then vent directions in which people are going to be able to vent back, or vent in a journal. If its my birthday and I get offended when people say "Happy Birthday" or "How old are you?" I need to keep the fact that its my birthday to myself....because the socially agreed on response to "its my birthday" is "Happy Birthday." The socially agreed on response to "I'm worried about X" is "it will be alright."

If your meds aren't working on the anxiety and depression, get different meds. Paxil is really old school nowadays.

[mswas]

Well, as I believe you to be an authority on the psychology of message board meltdowns (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=529930&highlight=Mary+Kopechne), I'll take your word for it. Thanks!

Oh man, it's worse than I thought. Now you're deflecting. :p

[Freddy the Pig]

statsman1982, you have my support and sympathy. I recently finished my actuarial exams and I cannot tell you how frustrating it was to have people constantly tell me, "Oh, I'm sure you passed." (Even after five failures out of 14 attempts.) They cannot realize how dismissive and insulting that comment is. It hurts like hell after you've worked your ass of for four months and know that there is still a good chance that you've failed.

I'm sure giving an oral defense of a doctoral thesis is ball-grindingly difficult, and it will probably be an insane amount of work. I hope the rest of the process will go well for you. If it does, it will be a tribute to your perseverance and hard work and not something that "of course you passed".

[MeanOldLady]

Normally I agree with just about everything you say.Sweet. This time I'd say that if the OP just wanted to vent and talk about his hard time without anyone answering him in kind he should get a blog or journal. I'm sure he's stressed out as we all can be, but he's being very bit the sarcastic asshole as the people who are poking him.

:: awaits his O-so-clever questioning of my psychological-assessment-abilities ::I'd say he got a bit defensive, sure, but likely because he didn't expect everyone to be so mean to him about this. Clearly the statements in the OP are not the right approach, but to me it just seems like he expressed himself that way because he's extremely pissed and frustrated, and doesn't know what to say or how to feel. Instead of everyone saying, "It's reasonable to be frustrated and angry, but...", people poked him with sticks. Seemed kinda needlessly mean-spirited to me, is all.

[mswas]

MeanOldLady That's the Pit. He came here to vent about people wishing him well, which is kind of a dick move to begin with. So he didn't want people to say nice things, so I am saying mean things. Ultimately he's trying to hold others responsible for his own inability to manage his internal emotional state. He knows how well he studied, he knows how good he is at his own discipline, he should be able to dismiss well-meaning platitudes just like everyone else does. I took a test not so long ago that I didn't study enough for and I was worried about it, and I did poorly, but it was pass-fail and I passed, but everyone thought I would ace it from my classmates to my family. But I didn't study enough, and that was MY problem, or more specifically I studied just barely enough. It can be annoying when people are cheerleading for you, but the bottom line is, it's really all about what you do to pass those tests. It doesn't matter whether or not Mommy says he's her little genius and he's going to pass, and it doesn't matter whether some asshole like me gets on and tells him he's going to do poorly in response to his whining.

Really, the only person responsible for anything in his predicament is himself. If he is going to post an OP like the one he did, he needs to recognize that all the sarcastic assholes who live for blowing off steam by telling people off are going to pipe up. If all he wanted was commiseration he should've posted in MPSIMS or IMHO.

[billfish678]

I think folks would have cut him much more slack if not for 2 things.

The "you guys barely got you lowely college degree and you dont/cant understand my stuff" thing. Hard to do that without coming off as an ass.

And if he could put at least one thing in there about how while the platitudes were extremely frustrating, he recognized that they were well intentioned.

Oh, thirdly, he did choose this lifestyle....so meh.

I do hope he does destress and take care of meds and medical issues though.

And if you think oral exams are bad, you should try the anal ones :)

[Freddy the Pig]

He came here to vent about people wishing him well, which is kind of a dick move to begin with.No, he didn't. He came here to vent about people telling him "you have nothing to worry about" and "of course you passed".

There are exams in high school and undergraduate college, in which a person doing a reasonable amount of work and bringing raw IQ points to the table is virtually guaranteed to pass.

Then there are advanced professional tests--the CPA, the CFA, actuarial exams, bar exams, thesis defenses. These are a different breed of cat. Everybody in the room has a high IQ and worked hard to prepare. Most have high GPA's from prestigious universities. Many will fail anyway.

To say "of course you passed" or "you have nothing to worry about" implies that one of the latter exams is just like one of the former, which is dismissive of the far harder work involved to pass one of the latter.

Memo to the entire world: Do you have a friend taking advanced professional certification exams? Here are some good things to say:

"I hope you passed."
"I'm pulling for you."
"It sounds like a lot of work."
"If you passed, I'll throw you a party." (Bonus points if you actually deliver.)

And here are some crappy, dismissive, insulting things to say:

"You're so smart, of course you passed."
"I'm sure you have nothing to worry about."
"I wish I was smart like you."

[Ogre]

Sorry your quals didn't go the way you'd planned. I'll be taking mine (molecular biology, we have to take both orals and writtens) in a couple of months, and I hope I have the expertise to pull it off.

On the other hand, they didn't outright fail you. When do you take the make-ups?

[Long Time First Time]

No, he didn't. He came here to vent about people telling him "you have nothing to worry about" and "of course you passed".

There are exams in high school and undergraduate college, in which a person doing a reasonable amount of work and bringing raw IQ points to the table is virtually guaranteed to pass.

Then there are advanced professional tests--the CPA, the CFA, actuarial exams, bar exams, thesis defenses. These are a different breed of cat. Everybody in the room has a high IQ and worked hard to prepare. Most have high GPA's from prestigious universities. Many will fail anyway.

To say "of course you passed" or "you have nothing to worry about" implies that one of the latter exams is just like one of the former, which is dismissive of the far harder work involved to pass one of the latter.

Memo to the entire world: Do you have a friend taking advanced professional certification exams? Here are some good things to say:

"I hope you passed."
"I'm pulling for you."
"It sounds like a lot of work."
"If you passed, I'll throw you a party." (Bonus points if you actually deliver.)

And here are some crappy, dismissive, insulting things to say:

"You're so smart, of course you passed."
"I'm sure you have nothing to worry about."
"I wish I was smart like you."


Hear hear.

As someone who had to take a lot of really tough exams - including thesis defense and two rounds of specialty certification - I agree 100%. There are some exams that are really, really tough. So hard than many very smart, prepared people fail them. It isn't false modesty to be afraid of not passing. You want the person who is trying to support you to acknowledge that this is really, really hard. And that any rational person knows that passing isn't a slam dunk and that the only reasonable response to taking one is to realize that one might not pass on the first attempt.

I think in this country we've got the "you can do anything if you just try hard enough" message beaten into our heads so much that folks start to believe it.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Cheer up, kid. Bomb the orals and you can skip the rectal.

[billfish678]

Hear hear.

As someone who had to take a lot of really tough exams - including thesis defense and two rounds of specialty certification - I agree 100%. There are some exams that are really, really tough. So hard than many very smart, prepared people fail them. It isn't false modesty to be afraid of not passing. You want the person who is trying to support you to acknowledge that this is really, really hard. And that any rational person knows that passing isn't a slam dunk and that the only reasonable response to taking one is to realize that one might not pass on the first attempt.

I think in this country we've got the "you can do anything if you just try hard enough" message beaten into our heads so much that folks start to believe it.

Bah

Glass half empty... dont those stupid fuckers realize I might fail this thing ?

Glass half full.... boy, we know you are SO smart and hard working you'll pass EVEN this hard assed test.

When people LOOK for bad shit in well intended actions...hell, not even actions, frackin WORDS for petes sake....well, I personally have little sympathy.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

statsman1982, it sucks to be in your position. You're a smart guy, you've worked hard, and yet, somehow, for perhaps the first time, you have not leaped gracefully over the bar, but instead have stumbled. You can't let it get you down - this is how everybody goes through life, even the most gifted.

Remain confident and be persistent - keep working, because this is when you show what you're really made of. Let the pain and disillusionment of this experience leaven your personality, and grow into compassion for people who aren't as gifted as you, and who experience this kind of disappointment all the time. If you can do that, you'll have gotten some value out of the experience, and your future students, colleagues and friends will benefit.

Turn on your PM function and we can tell you some real stories.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Comps was one of the worst experiences of my life. I was dealing with some personal issues at the same time, and the combination was just... ugh.

I feel for you. I, like everyone else in the same situation who has posted in this thread, hate hate hate the "oh, you'll do fine!" response. It's dismissive. Dismissive of my work, of my anxiety, of my emotions. If I want to have an honest discussion about my fears and stresses, that is not what I want to hear.

So I will instead say: good luck, statsman. It sucks, but you will emerge alive.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

It sucks, but you will emerge alive.

Now that is an achievable goal.:D

[Helen's Eidolon]

Now that is an achievable goal.:D
That was pretty much my only goal, in fact. Two 48-hour periods with no sleep in five days (+ a three hour written exam, all before the mandatory oral exam) coupled with concurrent severe personal issues - yes, staying alive was all I wanted.

Well, that or immediate, painless death. :D

[Contrapuntal]

How does one tell the difference between depression mixed with anxiety, and just being a self-centred fuckwheel?You have to check the serial number for the date code. Self-centering fuckwheels weren't produced before 1987. Before then, you had to center them with a spanner.

[Dangerosa]

No, he didn't. He came here to vent about people telling him "you have nothing to worry about" and "of course you passed".

There are exams in high school and undergraduate college, in which a person doing a reasonable amount of work and bringing raw IQ points to the table is virtually guaranteed to pass.

Then there are advanced professional tests--the CPA, the CFA, actuarial exams, bar exams, thesis defenses. These are a different breed of cat. Everybody in the room has a high IQ and worked hard to prepare. Most have high GPA's from prestigious universities. Many will fail anyway.

To say "of course you passed" or "you have nothing to worry about" implies that one of the latter exams is just like one of the former, which is dismissive of the far harder work involved to pass one of the latter.

Memo to the entire world: Do you have a friend taking advanced professional certification exams? Here are some good things to say:

"I hope you passed."
"I'm pulling for you."
"It sounds like a lot of work."
"If you passed, I'll throw you a party." (Bonus points if you actually deliver.)

And here are some crappy, dismissive, insulting things to say:

"You're so smart, of course you passed."
"I'm sure you have nothing to worry about."
"I wish I was smart like you."

I'm not sure I agree, I know some stupid people who passed the bar or the CPA exams.

Moreover....hey, welcome. Intelligent people now have the opportunity to discover how the other 90% of the population feels when confronted with a test. BFD. Do you think these well meaning people didn't have test anxiety? They've probably dealt with more test anxiety than you will have in your lifetime, because they AREN'T bringing enough raw IQ points to the table to do it without a LOT of work - sometimes even with a lot of work they don't bring enough IQ points to the table. They barely passed high school algebra, had to go to summer school in ninth grade. They do know how it feels.

Maybe playing major league ball is more stressful than little league. But major leagers chose it. And you know what.....maybe its not.

[Freddy the Pig]

They do know how it feels.Then they should understand anxiety about results, and should know better to dismiss it with a cavalier remark.

Maybe playing major league ball is more stressful than little league. But major leagers chose it. And you know what.....maybe its not.Yes, it's more stressful, because huge amounts of money are at stake, and it's infinitely more difficult. To tell a major league ballplayer that you know he'll do well because he did well in Little League would be a gross insult.

[you with the face]

The take home lesson from this ordeal is to stop seeking reassurance from people who don't know the full story.

The test was eally hard. So hard that even a smart, studious person was capable of not acing it. The well-wishers probably didn't know that and you knew that they didn't. So being angry at them because they were bad at predicting your performance is unfair. I'm sure when you tell them what happened, they'll be more careful the next go around.

Don't beat yourself up too bad. You aren't the first brilliant person to screw up on their qualifying exams and you won't be the last.

[YogSosoth]

There's a difference between being supportive and talking out one's ass. I would never tell, say, my cancer-stricken father that I just know everything will be alright. I have no fucking idea whether he'll be alright. I can hope, but I can't offer guarantees.

It's the same to me as when someone offers platitudes at a funeral to the effect of, "Well, he's in a better place now. You can be thankful for that." It's trite and presumptuous.


Then I HOPE you will do well, but from what I gather of the situation, you will probably FAIL.

[Idle Thoughts]

nm.

Statsman, I hope everything works out for you. Sorry you were so stressed. :)

[heatmiserfl]

So sorry to hear about your exam, statsman1982. This is very similar to what happened to my student when she did her research proposal. We worked together closely and I always thought she was going fine. However, as the exam approached, her practice runs were starting to get unfocused. Nevertheless, we practiced over the weekend and I thought everything pulled together. Nope. She totally choked.

All along, I was trying to be encouraging. Well, because I didn't warn her about how much she was going to choke, it was all my fault! I guess she was lashing out like you but I tell ya, it really strained our relationship. It's a shame because she squeaked by and got her PhD but she never lived up to her potential because of the constant chip on her shoulder.

See, the thing is, no one can predict what's going to be on an exam. We used to have written 'comprehensive' exams in our department. They're never comprehensive. That would be impossible. Instead, professors hand in questions that are different from year to year. So we're really not testing your knowledge of the whole field. Moreover, grading is very subjective.

Long story, short, unless you've been struggling in all your classes, these exams are not an indicator of your intelligence or even a predictor of your future success. They're more of a test of your character and dedication.

Please try to have a little more confidence. Be very pro-active in your oral exam. Don't be afraid to repeat the questions and make sure you know what the professors are asking. Then, mull over the question out loud. Don't just sit there thinking with a blank stare on your face. Say things like, "So what you seem to be asking is this and this. From what I remember in class, that has something to do with this and this. If that's true then blah blah blah." Next minute you know, you have the answer. Sometimes the professors are kind enough to help you along. Remember, if you've been doing well in your courses, they will really want to help you. High graduate student attrition rates reflect poorly on a department.

Best of luck!

[susan]

I know how disconnected a candidate can feel when support is offered in platitudes. They mean well, and they think you'll do fine, but they don't understand the task and so they underplay it. If you share your doubts, they wave them away. If you pass with flying colors, no one is surprised; if you don't, they don't understand why and it can feel humiliating. If you have people you can talk to who understand what you're up against, use them for support and take your family and other friends' comments as a reflection of their esteem, not as comps-specific feedback.

Best of luck!

[Shirley Ujest]

You're going to fail miserably, burn-out, have a nervous breakdown and end up a shell of your former self, doomed to using your fancy education on the long slow climb the zenith of mediocrity as a corporate middle-manager.

This would be an awesome anti-Hallmark card.

[Shirley Ujest]

Cheer up, kid. Bomb the orals and you can skip the rectal.

What's the difference between oral and rectal thermometers?




Taste

[statsman1982]

In all sincerity, thanks to those who are offering encouragement. I was able to review the exams and I actually passed both portions. One portion, the one that I have to do an oral defense on, was borderline, however. For some reason, one of the members of my committee said that I need to do an oral exam on the second portion anyway to satisfy him. He's kind of a big deal, so people listen. I am not as depressed as I was the other night, when I thought I bombed the whole thing.


:: awaits his O-so-clever questioning of my psychological-assessment-abilities ::

I wouldn't call "sarcastic asshole" a useful psychological diagnosis.

[statsman1982]

This would be an awesome anti-Hallmark card.

At first, I thought it was an Onion horoscope (http://www.theonion.com/content/horoscope/nov-03-2009), but then I realized that those are usually funny.

[statsman1982]

...They mean well, and they think you'll do fine, but they don't understand the task and so they underplay it. If you share your doubts, they wave them away. If you pass with flying colors, no one is surprised; if you don't, they don't understand why and it can feel humiliating....

This was the message I so badly bungled the other night when I made the OP. Deep down, I really do appreciate everyone who wished me well on these exams, even those who unintentionally made me feel worse by saying that I had nothing to worry about. All of the constructive points I've read in this thread are well taken.

[mswas]

This would be an awesome anti-Hallmark card.

That's what I was going for, thanks. ;)

[dropzone]

There's a difference between being supportive and talking out one's ass. No, not really. It's an advantage Normals have that you lack. You know you're fucked. They remember the juvenile, smart-ass you and still see the skies open before you. They don't know how wide those skies really are, and God bless 'em.

Accept now that you will fail and the only people you will disappoint are them, and they are bloody peasants who had no idea of what you were up against.

(Correct me if I'm wrong: This tool's a Brit? The same people who, against all odds, advanced against the Kaiser at the Somme and Passchendaele? And he's whinging about some fucking TEST?!?!?)

[nameless]

And he's whinging about some fucking TEST?!?!?)I don't know, I think I'd rather be shot at then take quals again. I mean, I've never been shot at, so I reserve the right to change my mind. Still though, fuck quals.

Kids these days! With their lack of a World War and so forth. We have it so easy.

Basically though, statsman, put yourself in someone else's shoes. Some dude comes up to you wringing his hands about quals. You've got your own problems. Maybe you can't quit smoking, maybe trouble with the lady, maybe the boss is giving you a rough time. It's really hard to carve out a sincere and meaningful phrase of consolation even in the best of circumstances. And yeah, non-academics don't "get it" just like they don't "get" what a Kaplan-Meier estimate is or why it's different from a Mann-Whitney U. Okay? You should be used to talking esoteric jargon by now.

[SandyHook]

"You don't have anything to worry about," you said. "You're perfectly prepared," you said. Shut the fuck up! Clearly I wasn't prepared or I wouldn't have to do an oral exam. And what would you know about anything anyway? You barely have college diplomas. You have no idea about the requirements of a doctoral program.

So from now own, keep your encouragement to yourself. Fuck!



That's the spirit.

If you'd have only came to me I would have looked you right in the eye and reminded you what a short peckered, premature ejaculating, gay donkey lover, sub-prime return getting, low income, Yugo driving, thinning hair inept you really are.

That way you'd have felt much better about getting as far as you have.

[statsman1982]

(Correct me if I'm wrong: This tool's a Brit?

I don't know what gave you that idea.

Here is an honest-to-god question: Do you and all the people here who keep calling me out for being ass (which I was in the OP) not realize that I've made several posts (including this one) since declaring that I was, indeed, in the wrong and that I do appreciate well wishes (I appreciate well wishes)?

Am I not playing this game right? Should I be rabidly defensive of my OP and continue posting in that vein? Am I supposed to be starting pit threads on everyone who dares disagree with me? I've been on the Dope long enough to think that's maybe what several of you are trying to have happen. But I can't say that I've ever seen a pit thread where the original poster repudiates his pit, and people still criticize him for holding a position that he, in fact, has already apologized for (see about Post 20 or so).

If it's a pile-on people want, I suppose you have it. But I just don't see the point.

[statsman1982]

That's the spirit.

If you'd have only came to me I would have looked you right in the eye and reminded you what a short peckered, premature ejaculating, gay donkey lover, sub-prime return getting, low income, Yugo driving, thinning hair inept you really are.

That way you'd have felt much better about getting as far as you have.

I am doing something about the thinning hair...

[MeanOldLady]

Here is an honest-to-god question: Do you and all the people here who keep calling me out for being ass (which I was in the OP) not realize that I've made several posts (including this one) since declaring that I was, indeed, in the wrong and that I do appreciate well wishes (I appreciate well wishes)?

Am I not playing this game right? Should I be rabidly defensive of my OP and continue posting in that vein?Don't worry about it, kiddo. Even before I read the clarifications and reevaluations, it was clear to me that you don't actually despise your friends and family, and were frustrated by what seemed like blind and infuriating optimism. We all hate hearing "Everything's great!" when things are clearly not. Not the most thoroughly planned and weighed OP in the world, but the idea that people couldn't understand where you were coming from is just silly.

Best wishes to you.

[BigT]

Don't worry about it, kiddo. Even before I read the clarifications and reevaluations, it was clear to me that you don't actually despise your friends and family, and were frustrated by what seemed like blind and infuriating optimism. We all hate hearing "Everything's great!" when things are clearly not. Not the most thoroughly planned and weighed OP in the world, but the idea that people couldn't understand where you were coming from is just silly.

Best wishes to you.

Heck, one of the primary purposes for the pit is to vent. If I really thought people were as angry and irrational in real life as they are in here, I would have left a long time ago.

As for the rest--well, another point of the Pit is to respond as jerkishly as possible to rants you think are stupid. So these people are actually agreeing with your assessment of the situation.

I'm actually surprised so many people are being so nice--apparently they are smart enough to realize that you don't need to be criticized when you are feeling down.

[eleanorigby]

And what makes "you'll do GREAT! You're so smart, you could write the tests!" remarks even worse is IF you don't do great. It's like you have fallen from even a greater height. Which is one good reason to NOT give false, superficial assurances to anyone.

I am struggling right now to learn a new job. I KNOW I suck at some of it. I also know I am smart and capable etc. Doesn't make the sucky parts easier one bit. And it doesn't help to be told by others that "of course you'll be head of the department in less time than it takes to tell." Um, no I won't. 1. I don't want to and 2. there are any number of better qualified, more experienced people than me to do that job. I'm busy drowning in my current position, don't push more "glory" on to me right now.

Hang in there. I hope the second oral part goes well for you. Could it be that one person smells blood in the water? Never underestimate the cruelty of people in power. Just one of my lil' credos.... Go down fighting, if you must go down. ;)