Human vs Klingon vs Vulcan - How do they match up physically?

[astro]

If there was a inter-species Olympics how would Humans vs Klingon's vs Vulcan's match up in various events like the decathlon etc?

Can Klingon's and Vulcans swim?

[aceplace57]

Klingons were supposed to be the strongest. At least until a middle aged human name Picard started whipping their butts in fist fights.

still, I rank them in strength 1. Klingon 2 Vulcan 3 Human

in the Original series I recall Spock throwing humans around like rag dolls. He beat the crap out of Kirk in Amok Time

[aceplace57]

Almost forgot,

the Jem'Hadar are even stronger than Klingons
there were some great fights on Deep Space Nine

[aceplace57]

Anyone remember the DS9 episode where Sisko rescues the Klingon General from the Jem'Hadar.

Jem'Hadar had kidnapped all these aliens and were testing them in fights to learn their strengths and weaknesses. The Jem'Hadar were the baddest of them all.

[astro]

IIRC humans have better heat resistance vs Klingon's, cold resistance vs Vulcan's and better long term endurance ("Enterprise" treadmill race of Quantum vs Catsuit,

[Ephemera]

Spock presumably swims from the downed Bird of Prey in The Voyage Home, and Worf is forced to walk the plank in Generations, so they can, at least.

As to strength, I assume Klingons are strongest, then Vulcans, with humans somewhere in the middle to lower half of the scale. As with most sci-fi and fantasy stories, we're the physically unremarkable but plucky species.

[Oakminster]

'd give Klingons the edge in brute force type contests, like weightlifting, shot put, javelin.

Vulcans get the edge in endurance events--marathon, that thing where they ski then shoot, stuff like that.

Also might give a Vulcan the edge in boxing. Ali's rope-a-dope is logical, afterall.

[The Man In Black]

I always thought Vulcans were stronger than Klingons.

[cochrane]

Spock presumably swims from the downed Bird of Prey in The Voyage Home, and Worf is forced to walk the plank in Generations, so they can, at least.

As to strength, I assume Klingons are strongest, then Vulcans, with humans somewhere in the middle to lower half of the scale. As with most sci-fi and fantasy stories, we're the physically unremarkable but plucky species.Spock also got into the tank with the whales and swam with them.

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

I always imagined Spock would be a great pool player. I figure he could easily calculate the angles when hitting the balls.

[Tim R. Mortiss]

Your average Klingon or Vulcan could beat up the average Human, unless it was Capt. Kirk with a ripped shirt. Once his shirt is ripped, he has the strength of ten Kirks, plus two.

[wolfman]

I always imagined Spock would be a great pool player. I figure he could easily calculate the angles when hitting the balls.

They are highly coordinated compared to humans(and Ferengi). They kicked the crap of of Cisco's baseball team

[Jolly Roger]

Your average Klingon or Vulcan could beat up the average Human, unless it was Capt. Kirk with a ripped shirt. Once his shirt is ripped, he has the strength of ten Kirks, plus two.

Ok, that Grinch reference made me chuckle. :)

I alwaysd thought that Vulcans were actually stronger than Klingons, but Klingons were "tougher"....as in they could take more physical punishment.

I wonder where Cardassians fall in this who is stronger stuff?

[Der Trihs]

For what it's worth, that half Klingon engineer Belanna in Voyager beat up a Vulcan in pon farr once.

[Ephemera]

To be fair, she was suffering from pon farr at the same time (Vorik had tried to rape her by forcing a mind meld, and wound up transferring some of the effects to her), so they were both pretty amped.

[bup]

Your average Klingon or Vulcan could beat up the average Human, unless it was Capt. Kirk with a ripped shirt. Once his shirt is ripped, he has the strength of ten Kirks, plus two.Damn that's funny. And true.

[3waygeek]

I always imagined Spock would be a great pool player. I figure he could easily calculate the angles when hitting the balls.In the ST:Enterprise episode Carbon Creek, a Vulcan does play pool against a hapless human, hustling a few bucks to buy food for himself and the rest of his stranded crew.

[simster]

I always figured from a strcitly physical standpoint, the races were somewhat equal - its mor of an attitude thing.

The Klingon's were the football players - they thought/acted and trained aggressive and had little fear for charging into battle.

The Vulcans were the Monks (not Adrian, More Quai Chan) - and lived primarily to avoid fighting in favor of intelectual pursuits - but when pressed, had the ability to do some serious asskicking. (Strategy generally beats brute force and all that)

Humans - somewhere in between.

[My Darn Snake Legs]

I was given to understand that Vulcans are something like 6 to 10 times stronger than your average human due to the high Vulcan gravity and their copper-based physiology. I would imagine that would make them faster too, but I'm no physicist. I don't have a citation for that, it's just a memory I have from somewhere.

Klingons are raised to be bad ass. I don't have the impression that they're much stronger than either of the other two races, but maybe they are. They've got bigger, bonier heads, so maybe they're really hard to knock out.

So, perhaps the outcome of a fight would depend on the relative training and pluckiness of the fighters. A trained fighter who was human or Klingon would have a pretty even chance against each other, but both should be crushed easily by a trained Vulcan.

<tangent>
This reminds me of a gripe I have about Spiderman II. Spiderman is super strong and if he punches a normal face, that face should just be pudding. I'm sure he pulls punches when fighting normal villains, but he really wanted to kill the crap out of Doc Oc in that movie, and Oc keeps fighting despite not having a super-face. <sigh>
</tangent>

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

They've got bigger, bonier heads, so maybe they're really hard to knock out.

Is the Vulcan grip a factor?

[My Darn Snake Legs]

Is the Vulcan grip a factor?

Certainly, but it seems like anyone can learn it if they try. Picard and Archer have both used it, I think.

And I don't think it would help with sports, and that was really the OP's question. I'd think a non-contact sport like decathalon could go any way, but I'd give the Vulcan the edge if it's held on a non-Vulcan world due to their being suited to higher gravity than other races.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Certainly, but it seems like anyone can learn it if they try. Picard and Archer have both used it, I think.

And I don't think it would help with sports, and that was really the OP's question.

What about, say, Greco-Roman wrestling, or maybe judo?

[muldoonthief]

Certainly, but it seems like anyone can learn it if they try. Picard and Archer have both used it, I think.


I thought it was pretty well known that humans can't do the Vulcan nerve pinch. That's why they had Data do it in one of the Spock TNG episodes. Did Picard do it while/after he mind melded with Sarek or something?

[My Darn Snake Legs]

I thought it was pretty well known that humans can't do the Vulcan nerve pinch. That's why they had Data do it in one of the Spock TNG episodes. Did Picard do it while/after he mind melded with Sarek or something?

According to Wikipedia, both captains could do it after mind melds with Vulcans. Maybe it's an instinct or something that's passed along, but I dunno. The details are fuzzy. That wouldn't explain why Data can do it, though, so it must be mechanical. Thus, I think anyone who tried to learn it probably could.

[Malacandra]

Even without the Vulcan nerve pinch, Spock handed Kirk his ass in This Side Of Paradise, and Kirk started that fight armed with a crowbar. Kirk's log entry just before made it plain that he expected nothing less, and knew well he was in serious danger picking a fight with Spock: he refers to him as "the strongest man on the ship", and in most hand to hand fights the crew ever gets into, Spock is seldom in any danger. (Until the 3rd season, but the writing was going downhill in that one.)

Note that in Bread and Circuses, Spock has no difficulty holding off a trained gladiator, and spends most of the fight just trying to persuade his opponent to give up before getting hurt. Only when McCoy admits to needing help does Spock shift gears, and then he puts out both opponents' lights without seriously struggling.

[Skald the Rhymer]

I can't agree with those who say that Klingons are stronger than Vulcans. It's more that Klingons generally like to fight (B'lonna Torres being the most prominent exception) and Vulcans generally don't, so one gets a false impression.

[geek mode]
Consider "The Paradise Syndrome." When Kirk is preparing to provoke Spock into rage to counteract the effect of the spores, he notes in his log that what he's trying is quite dangerous, because Vulcans are many times stronger than humans. Not a little--many times, which I'll take to mean at least 4 times as strong. He arms himself with a steel pipe to give himself a better chance in the hand-to-hand combat he's trying to start--and Spock bends it in two with ease. He shows no sign of feeling the blows Kirk manages to land.

Consider "The Naked Time." Kirk hits Spock hard at least twice, and the Vulcan shows little sign of noticing. One blow from Spock sends the captain flying across the room.

I don't think Kirk ever seriously believes that he can do physical damage to Spock in a fistfight without help. Contrariwise, it's clearly possible for humans to mix it up with Klingons with a reasonable chance of winning.

I admit that "Amok Time" and "Bread & Circuses" seem to contradict this view, but I can fanwank those.

[/gm]

[My Darn Snake Legs]

What about, say, Greco-Roman wrestling, or maybe judo?

I gotta go with a Vulcan on those. The super-human strength and superior mental ability (which would help in those just as it helps in pool) would probably overcome the Klingon's mass and the human's pluckiness.

I kinda wonder about how weight classes would work there, though. Does anyone know if Vulcans weigh more since they're probably more dense than folks from worlds with lighter gravity? Seems like they would, but I'm not a physicist.

If their strength and mass are proportional, then we might end up with a contest that is more even, but in which Klingon and human adults would have to fight tiny Vulcans or Vulcan children. :dubious:

[Skald the Rhymer]

I thought it was pretty well known that humans can't do the Vulcan nerve pinch. That's why they had Data do it in one of the Spock TNG episodes. Did Picard do it while/after he mind melded with Sarek or something?

I'll fanwank that. Doing the nerve pinch requires very precise muscular control, I'll say, and would be trivial for Data to accomplish but difficult for most humans. I agree that Picard & Archer's ability to achieve that level of control derived from having melded very deeply with Vulcans. Kirk & Spock specifically comment that Kirk has been unable to master it.

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

What about, say, Greco-Roman wrestling, or maybe judo?

I gotta go with a Vulcan on those. The super-human strength and superior mental ability (which would help in those just as it helps in pool) would probably overcome the Klingon's mass and the human's pluckiness.

Quite possibly -- but I meant "if he gets a hold of the other guy's shoulder for a moment during the match, can he use the Vulcan grip for an insta-win?"

[astro]

What about endurance? Is the only head to head on this Archer beating T'pol on the treadmill?

[My Darn Snake Legs]

Quite possibly -- but I meant "if he gets a hold of the other guy's shoulder for a moment during the match, can he use the Vulcan grip for an insta-win?"

Oh! Heh...I dunno. I bet he could. I don't know if the rules would allow it.

[Skald the Rhymer]

<tangent>
This reminds me of a gripe I have about Spiderman II. Spiderman is super strong and if he punches a normal face, that face should just be pudding. I'm sure he pulls punches when fighting normal villains, but he really wanted to kill the crap out of Doc Oc in that movie, and Oc keeps fighting despite not having a super-face. <sigh>
</tangent>

Captain Fanwank to the rescue!

You'll recall that Otto Octavious was working for Osborne Industries. I submit that during his research he discovered that he would require enhanced physical strength & resilience to support his artificial arms. He found and used Osborne's strength-enhancing formula, which accounted for his ability to stand up to a spider-punch and also contributed to his mental instability.

[My Darn Snake Legs]

Captain Fanwank to the rescue!

You'll recall that Otto Octavious was working for Osborne Industries. I submit that during his research he discovered that he would require enhanced physical strength & resilience to support his artificial arms. He found and used Osborne's strength-enhancing formula, which accounted for his ability to stand up to a spider-punch and also contributed to his mental instability.

Sir, I'll buy that for the movie, as otherwise they would have just ripped his spine out the first time he tried to stand on them.

[Small Hen]

I'll fanwank that. Doing the nerve pinch requires very precise muscular control, I'll say, and would be trivial for Data to accomplish but difficult for most humans. I agree that Picard & Archer's ability to achieve that level of control derived from having melded very deeply with Vulcans. Kirk & Spock specifically comment that Kirk has been unable to master it.

Nitpick: But McCoy, who was carrying Spock's Katra in "Search For Spock" was unable to do a nerve pinch, even though he should have had the exact know how and memory in his head. So, what's that about? Huh?

[Skald the Rhymer]

Sir, I'll buy that for the movie, as otherwise they would have just ripped his spine out the first time he tried to stand on them.

The only problem with my explanation is that it seems contradicted by the holding-May-hostage scene, when she hits him with her umbrella to keep him from stabbing Spidey on the sly. But I suppose we can say that he was simply surpirsed rather than injured.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Nitpick: But McCoy, who was carrying Spock's Katra in "Search For Spock" was unable to do a nerve pinch, even though he should have had the exact know how and memory in his head. So, what's that about? Huh?

You forgot to say "hotshot." It's "what's that about, hotshot? Huh? WHAT'S THAT ABOUT?"

Now, to continue fanwanking, I'll say that McCoy was so discombobulated by the very odd circumstances--recall that he didn't know that he had Spock's katra at that point--that he could not muster sufficient muscle control to do it correctly.

[Icerigger]

When Spock freaked out after seeing the Medusan he went to the bridge to take over the helm and it took four men to subdue him.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Sir, I'll buy that for the movie, as otherwise they would have just ripped his spine out the first time he tried to stand on them.

Which is rather my point. Otto being able to use the arms only works if he is already super-strong. (Though I don't think his meat parts were as strong as movie-spidey.)

[Chimera]

I was given to understand that Vulcans are something like 6 to 10 times stronger than your average human due to the high Vulcan gravity and their copper-based physiology. I would imagine that would make them faster too, but I'm no physicist. I don't have a citation for that, it's just a memory I have from somewhere.

Not a Chemical Engineer or Physicist either, but wouldn't Vulcans be slower and have a bit less endurance because their copper based blood having a harder time transferring oxygen?

[Malacandra]

Not a Chemical Engineer or Physicist either, but wouldn't Vulcans be slower and have a bit less endurance because their copper based blood having a harder time transferring oxygen?

No reason why it needs to. We're not talking about the chemical reactivity of iron or copper here, but a complex protein which happens to include one or the other. "Insufficient data", as Spock would say - but in Amok Time, McCoy uses the excuse that Kirk isn't adapted for the thin Vulcan atmosphere to use the hypo on him, which suggests that Vulcan blood is if anything more efficient than human.

[Skald the Rhymer]

No reason why it needs to. We're not talking about the chemical reactivity of iron or copper here, but a complex protein which happens to include one or the other. "Insufficient data", as Spock would say - but in Amok Time, McCoy uses the excuse that Kirk isn't adapted for the thin Vulcan atmosphere to use the hypo on him, which suggests that Vulcan blood is if anything more efficient than human.

I also suspect that McCoy slipped a stimulant as well as as the tri-ox and the delayed-action heart suppresseant in there. It's hard to see how Kirk managed to last in that fight as long as he did, as every other Kirk-Spock tussle is a one-sided, Kirk-getting-his-ass-stomped massacre.

I've never understood why, apart from plot reasons, Kirk decided to piss Spock off in "Paradise Syndrome." I understand that he needed the technical help, but it would have been much smarter to run that strategem on Scott or Uhura, whom he could reasonably have expected to be able to overpower. It was pure dumb luck that he survived the fight with Spock; the episode makes it clear tha tthe strength difference between humans and Vulcans is simply overwhelming.

[Pushkin]

I was given to understand that Vulcans are something like 6 to 10 times stronger than your average human due to the high Vulcan gravity and their copper-based physiology

That and the thin air on Vulcan perhaps?

Besides all that, as Wil Wheaton pointed out, Worf got his ass kicked an awful lot on TNG. Although he did show that the mutant strain of knobbly headed Klingons were better than the non-knobbly badly tanned Klingons.

[aceplace57]

Trip survived some, ah intense moments with T'Pol in Star Trek Enterprise. I guess Vulcans can control their strength when needed.

Tom Paris got pretty bruised up with B'Elanna Torres in Voyager. I recall a few comments in episodes. Same thing with Dax and Worf on DS9. Dating a Klingon can be painful.

[Lumpy]

At least compared to Vulcans or Klingons, humans are disgracefully the 98-pound weaklings of the Alpha Quadrant; you have to go all the way down to the Ferengi before you find a humanoid race that is less physically capable. Maybe humans are the only advanced race that has refused to accept genetic engineering to increase their physical ability.

[YogSosoth]

At least compared to Vulcans or Klingons, humans are disgracefully the 98-pound weaklings of the Alpha Quadrant; you have to go all the way down to the Ferengi before you find a humanoid race that is less physically capable. Maybe humans are the only advanced race that has refused to accept genetic engineering to increase their physical ability.

[geek mode]

Or rather, they tried genetic engineering and it lead to a race of super-humans bent on conquering Earth, so they figured it was too much trouble to be worth it.

The Eugenics War did eventually lead to an ancestor of Dr. Noonien Soong's, Arik Soong, to go into robotics and develop Data.

Also, see Dr. Bashir for examples of humans still not completely sold on the idea of not using genetic engineering

[/geek mode]

[Ephemera]

Ferengi are poorly characterized. In their first appearance, The Last Outpost, they're shown to be stronger than humans. It's only when the writers decided to make them a joke species did they become weaker, and that could be wanked away as a cultural condition. They could still kick a human's ass if they really wanted to, but being cowards only interested in money, they just don't like to fight.

[astro]

Why are humans universal physical pussies. Is it so we can be plucky and persevere?

[BigT]

Why are humans universal physical pussies. Is it so we can be plucky and persevere? Pretty much. It's almost a rule that Humans must be depicted as being better than other species. But if they were clearly better, there's no conflict. So we take our lessons from other animals. Most specialize, while humans attempt to do it all. For example, we can't run as fast as a cheetah. SO we built vehicles that can out run them. We can't fly? We figure out a way. We not only learn to survive, we learn to try to be better. We're always the supposed underdogs who turn out to be better than everyone else in the end.

[R4v3nh34rt]

I was given to understand that Vulcans are something like 6 to 10 times stronger than your average human due to the high Vulcan gravity and their copper-based physiology. I would imagine that would make them faster too, but I'm no physicist. I don't have a citation for that, it's just a memory I have from somewhere.


Errr, you're kidding right? You can't possibly believe what you wrote there. Vulcans are barely 3 times stronger than the average human, klingons are as strong as a fit human. 6 - 10 times stronger means the average earth gorilla which is not possible at all.

I've been watching star trek for more than a decade so im pretty sure of what im saying. So again:

Vulcans are the strongest of the three, they got superior strength and normal endurance, they got better reflexes than humans and klingons but their bodies are less resilient.

Klingons have a complex anatomy. They got multiple redundancies and can usually withstand injuries better than a lot of other species. They're MUCH weaker than vulcans and a bit stronger than humans due to their warrior lifestyle and diet. Doctor Phlox said that klingon food has a high amount of proteins and an augment klingon stated that humans are weak cause they don't eat their food alive. Still this is not the true reason of course, but part of it. What im trying to say is that naturally, both species have similar strength

Humans are weaker than vulcans and generally a little weaker than the average klingon, but have better long term endurance, and can adapt in many different enviroments. It also seems that humans have much more agility. Imagine a klingon / vulcan attempting to learn Capoeira or other earth martial arts, their body are probably too fixed or heavy to perform such a thing.

Note: Agility doesn't mean speed at running or stuff like that , I mean it more like "flexibility".


if we want to take into consideration some episodes... I remember that in several occasions humans managed to defeat klingons and vulcans in hand to hand combat. Sisko and Archer are specialists. Sisko can even match Jem'hadar soldiers without many troubles. About klingons... they always act like tough guys but they often get their butt kicked.

[muldoonthief]

I've never understood why, apart from plot reasons, Kirk decided to piss Spock off in "Paradise Syndrome." I understand that he needed the technical help, but it would have been much smarter to run that strategem on Scott or Uhura, whom he could reasonably have expected to be able to overpower. It was pure dumb luck that he survived the fight with Spock; the episode makes it clear tha tthe strength difference between humans and Vulcans is simply overwhelming.

"This Side of Paradise". "Paradise Syndrome" was the one where Kirk joins the American Indian tribe & gets married.

And I think he used Spock because Scotty would just have complained he dinna ken build such a thing, and given that this was a first season episode, Uhura couldn't do much beyond opening hailing frequencies.


I've been watching star trek for more than a decade so im pretty sure of what im saying.

A whole decade? Can we kiss your feet? There are people in this thread who've been watching 3-4 times as long as that, pally.

[Skald the Rhymer]

"This Side of Paradise". "Paradise Syndrome" was the one where Kirk joins the American Indian tribe & gets married.

And I think he used Spock because Scotty would just have complained he dinna ken build such a thing, and given that this was a first season episode, Uhura couldn't do much beyond opening hailing frequencies.


Oh, I think Uhura was always a techie. But I'll let the spirt of pepperlandgirl
fill me on this fanwank, and say that Kirk made his choice because he and Spock were soulmates. He knew exactly what to say to fill Spockwith rage, whereas he did not know Uhura and Scott nearly as well. Also, I don't think Spock would have gotten so angry if it had been anyone but Kirk saying those things.


A whole decade? Can we kiss your [R4v3nh34rt's] feet? There are people in this thread who've been watching 3-4 times as long as that, pally.

Better than 35 years in my case (I say in horror).

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

I've been watching star trek for more than a decade Newbie.

[My Darn Snake Legs]

Errr, you're kidding right? You can't possibly believe what you wrote there. Vulcans are barely 3 times stronger than the average human, klingons are as strong as a fit human. 6 - 10 times stronger means the average earth gorilla which is not possible at all.

Not kidding, actually. Can a "barely 3 times stronger" person bend pipe like licorice? No? Huh. :eek:

Am I the only one who wants to see a Vulcan wrestle a gorilla?

[aceplace57]

Back in the original series Spock got blinded for awhile (thanks to McCoy's screw up). The problem fixed itself because Vulcans had an extra lens or something in their eye. I don't recall the exact technobabble. Anyhow, Vulcans had some protection against intense light.

Did they ever bring this up in Enterprise? I didn't watch all that series. I know Enterprise added a lot to the Vulcan canon.

[Kamino Neko]

It was a third eyelid, which had evolved to deal with Vulcan's insanely bright sun. They had closed when the light was shone at him, and reopened some time later.

[muldoonthief]

Oh, I think Uhura was always a techie. But I'll let the spirt of pepperlandgirl
fill me on this fanwank, and say that Kirk made his choice because he and Spock were soulmates. He knew exactly what to say to fill Spockwith rage, whereas he did not know Uhura and Scott nearly as well. Also, I don't think Spock would have gotten so angry if it had been anyone but Kirk saying those things.


Pissing off Scotty would be trivial - just compare the Enterprise to a garbage scow. And he is a Scotsman, who aren't particularly well known for their even temper - hell, "like filling a Scotsman with rage" could replace "like taking candy from a baby" as the adage for a trivial task.

[3waygeek]

Did they ever bring this up in Enterprise? I didn't watch all that series. I know Enterprise added a lot to the Vulcan canon.It was briefly mentioned in one of the fourth-season episodes -- "The Forge", IIRC.

[R4v3nh34rt]

First of all my post wasn't meant to be aggressive or anything since i just registered only to reply on this particular topic, so chill the fuck out.
Four times? mhhh, well how do they say? That quantity is not as important as quality? Moreover, judging by the things i read in this topic it doesn't seem there are people who have been watching it that long.

And a decade is the longest i could ever have watched it since I'm pretty young (yeah, spare me the shit "oh it's obvious" since I'm not THAT young).
There are "weird" and unusual episodes where you see vulcans doing weird stuff like bending pipes or things like that. Don't take every single event as the only truth since there will always be several others which deny that.


Tsk, again, like i didn't suspect that someone was going to come out with the thing "I've been watching it for 40 years" or something like that. Am i supposed to be impressed?

But I'm not here to start a flame war, take what i said as valuable info or carry on and don't care, I surely won't. I'm not here for trolling, after all :)


I didn't quote anything (for do-not-care purposes :P) since I'm pretty sure everyone knows which part of my post is referred to whom.

[mlees]

In Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, Spock's brother Sybock seems to throw Kirk around with ease in the shuttle bay.

[Tim R. Mortiss]

Vulcans are a highly evolved species whose strengths and abilities are able to adapt to the needs of the plot.

[muldoonthief]

First of all my post wasn't meant to be aggressive or anything since i just registered only to reply on this particular topic, so chill the fuck out.
Four times? mhhh, well how do they say? That quantity is not as important as quality? Moreover, judging by the things i read in this topic it doesn't seem there are people who have been watching it that long.

And a decade is the longest i could ever have watched it since I'm pretty young (yeah, spare me the shit "oh it's obvious" since I'm not THAT young).
There are "weird" and unusual episodes where you see vulcans doing weird stuff like bending pipes or things like that. Don't take every single event as the only truth since there will always be several others which deny that.


Name one. Give us one instance from a show where a Vulcan tried to do something that would take less strength than a gorilla, but more than 3x human, and failed. Cites have been provided where a Vulcan bent a steel bar - you're calling that a "weird and unusual". Give us a cite where a Vulcan tries to bend a steel bar, but can't, as support that bending one was "weird and unusual".

And yeah, until you came along, no one in this thread brought out their "I'm such a Trekker I've got samples of Shatner's hair in my basement!" credits. So don't be terribly surprised that you got called on it when you did.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Pissing off Scotty would be trivial - just compare the Enterprise to a garbage scow. And he is a Scotsman, who aren't particularly well known for their even temper - hell, "like filling a Scotsman with rage" could replace "like taking candy from a baby" as the adage for a trivial task.

Stereotypes aside, Scotty never struck me as especially short-tempered. Even in the tribble episode, when he clocks a Klingon for saying the Enterprise should be hauled away as garbage, he doesn't seem to lose his self-control; it was more of a I cannot ignore this slur to my great lady's honor, orders or not.

(And, of course, that was just his sly way of getting confined to quarters so he could catch up on his engineering journals, rather than going on shore leave to a space station that was crawling with Klingons rather than hookers.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

But back to the OP, prior to going all logical on the universe, the Vulcans were supposed to be extremely violent and extremely emotional. This was established back in the original series. They turned to their more peaceful philosophy of logic as an antidote to their savagery that crippled their culture due to all the ongoing warfare. I think it was TNG that established that early Vulcans who didn't wanna be all logical, took off, got their own planet, and became Romulans.

As for their strength: three times stronger than humans is cannon from both TOS and DS9 and they have faster reflexes as well.

You can probably get a whack of cites and details from Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki (http://memory-alpha.org).

[dark_angeluk1]

hi all
in response to the Human vs Klingon vs Vulcan,
Humans and Klingons are fairly evenly matched there are quite a few episodes and refs where these two species fight each other with no real clear winner, Humans adapt to the various situiations they find themselves in, someone pointed out that humans are the 98LB weaklings this they are most certainly not, if this were true how have humans fought off the Jem Haddar?
Vulcans are at best 3 - 4 times stronger than Humans but again it varies with conditioning etc by the way Vulcans are carbon based like Humans and Klingons, their blood is copper based, this is why their colouring is like it is from a greenish tinge to a reddish tinge. on the premise of fighting the Jem Haddar are no stronger than either Humans or Klingons but are bred to be more violent and supremely battle ready from almost being born, few Jem Haddars live long lives, i seem to remember one saying 15 years old was ancient.
As for the Multi Species Olympics the final stand would most likely be Swimming the final would be likely to be Klingon Vs Human (i quote from a few sources here, Vulcans in general are not great swimmers though some have learnt to swim) Shooting likely to be Human Vs Vulcan ( Klingons do not have good distance vision) track and field certainly Vulcan (speed over short distance, but the longer distance would certainly be Human or Klingon and quite Possibly Human, we have a much more endurance based body system) fighting is anybodies guess, again certain Vulcan but this could be vs either Klingon or Human.
if anyone wants to try and shoot me down bare in mind i have watched every single episode of every single series of star trek, i have read every single book thats been written, i have every ref manual from the more famous ones to some quite obscure stuff. i think i can safely say i have put the nail in the coffin lol. regards to you all.
PEACE AND LONGLIFE

[Lumpy]

<...>rather than going on shore leave to a space station that was crawling with Klingons rather than hookers.Who the heck says there weren't hookers? (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Station_K-7_personnel#Brunette_waitress) That's what the Klingon captain as much as admitted they were there for. Yeah, I know, they were officially "waitresses" <smerk> but does anyone really believe that?

[Skald the Rhymer]

Who the heck says there weren't hookers? (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Deep_Space_Station_K-7_personnel#Brunette_waitress) That's what the Klingon captain as much as admitted they were there for. Yeah, I know, they were officially "waitresses" <smerk> but does anyone really believe that?

I didn't say there were NO hookers on the station. I said the station wasn't CRAWLING with hookers. Or something to that effect. I'd check for the exact wording but I'm not sure how to scroll up.

[carnivorousplant]

Ok, that Grinch reference made me chuckle. :)

Say what?


I wonder where Cardassians fall in this who is stronger stuff?

They hold their liquor better, and are sneakier.

[carnivorousplant]

Nitpick: But McCoy, who was carrying Spock's Katra in "Search For Spock" was unable to do a nerve pinch, even though he should have had the exact know how and memory in his head. So, what's that about? Huh?

He's been drinking as I recall.
:)

[carnivorousplant]

I've never understood why, apart from plot reasons, Kirk decided to piss Spock off in "Paradise Syndrome." I understand that he needed the technical help, but it would have been much smarter to run that strategem on Scott or Uhura, whom he could reasonably have expected to be able to overpower. It was pure dumb luck that he survived the fight with Spock; the episode makes it clear tha tthe strength difference between humans and Vulcans is simply overwhelming.

Kirk didn't know how to fix it. He can't do anything by himself except kick ass. All he has to do is diss Spock and keep out of his way. When Spock came out of it, he figured out they could make a dingus that would bring even McCoy out of it.

Of course, Spock lives to piss off McCoy, but I digress.

Someone's already pointed out that you are talking about This Side of Paradise, right?