x-box: Why no mods?

[Johnny L.A.]

I don't have an x-box, nor do I plan to get one; but I read this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33866696/ns/technology_and_science-games/):
Microsoft bans up to 1 million Xbox Live users

<snip>

"In some cases though, modding (modifying) is done to allow a bigger hard drive, and given that the supplied hard drives are still very small comparative to what is available on the market, and expensive also, you can see why some people are going to be very angry."

However, he said, "the biggest problem in banning modded consoles — and this gets missed by most people — is that it is the console itself that gets banned. So many of these consoles get sold secondhand, even sometimes unwittingly by stores (that) accept them as trade-ins, to people who assume they have just bought a functioning console. And while it might technically boot up, the console is blacklisted and therefore pretty much useless to them."

<snip>

The company "needs to do a better job of explaining to people why modding consoles isn't acceptable, and needs to find a way to help people tricked into purchasing blacklisted consoles," said Taylor.

In its Xbox Live and Windows games' "Terms of Use" agreement, as of September 2008, Microsoft says that players are to use "only authorized software and hardware to access the Service," and that they agree that their software and hardware "have not been modified in any unauthorized way ... and that we have the right to send data, applications or other content to any software or hardware that you are using to access the Service for the express purpose of detecting an unauthorized modification."
I completely understand that they don't want people using pirated software. But why do they forbid installing a larger hard drive?

[gazpacho]

I completely understand that they don't want people using pirated software. But why do they forbid installing a larger hard drive?Because they sell the larger hard drive for the Xbox at a very inflated price.

The 120 gig xbox drive is about $135.
160 gig commodity drives can be hard for about $40

[Johnny L.A.]

Title should say 'mods', not 'nods'.

[beowulff]

Title should say 'mods', not 'nods'.

Maybe you should give a nod to the Mods...:D

[Palooka]

Plus once you're running your own HDD, you're only one small step away from piracy or pretty much anything you want to do.

[Johnny L.A.]

Plus once you're running your own HDD, you're only one small step away from piracy or pretty much anything you want to do.
I don't follow. If I put a bigger hard drive on my computer, I'm no closer to piracy than I was with a smaller drive.

[ZenBeam]

I thought one of the things that could be done with a modded box was to hack games to give the player an advantage.

Agree that putting in tiny hard drives, and overcharging for a slightly bigger tiny drive is pretty crappy.

[samclem]

Since this is related to games, perhaps someone over in the Game Room might have insight. Moved.

samclem Moderator, General Questions

[Richard Pearse]

I completely understand that they don't want people using pirated software. But why do they forbid installing a larger hard drive?
My guess is that they don't want to get into the game of allowing some mods and not others, and having to define exactly what is and isn't allowed, and then making sure they can actually detect exactly how the machine has been modded. It seems to me it's much easier to just outright ban all mods.

[Abigail]

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[Least Original User Name Ever]

I'm completely fine with them banning every and all modification, even hard drives. I assume Microsoft wants you to buy their proprietary 120 gigabyte drives, and people don't either want to buy them or can do their own for cheaper. However, if you want to play on Live, I don't see what's wrong with Microsoft enforcing its own rules. If you violate the rules, you'll get smacked down. It's just that simple.

[Simplicio]

My guess is that they don't want to get into the game of allowing some mods and not others, and having to define exactly what is and isn't allowed, and then making sure they can actually detect exactly how the machine has been modded. It seems to me it's much easier to just outright ban all mods.

Do you have to mod your box to play pirated software? Your post and the op's article seem to conflate the two, but I don't really see that the two things are related (other then both will apparently get you banned from X-Box live). I don't know anything about the X-Box though, perhaps there's some technical reason you can't play pirated software on an unmodded box?

[yojimbo]

Do you have to mod your box to play pirated software? Your post and the op's article seem to conflate the two, but I don't really see that the two things are related (other then both will apparently get you banned from X-Box live). I don't know anything about the X-Box though, perhaps there's some technical reason you can't play pirated software on an unmodded box?

The xbox will only read games with DRM info on it. A pirated games will not have this info so you need to chip your xbox so it will read pirate copies.

[MJinks]

I must admit, it never occurred to me that replacing the HDD would be considered an illegal mod. Is this true with the PS3 too? I'm sure I've seen a guide to replacing the HDD in the official PS3 mag. so I hope not...

[Palooka]

I don't follow. If I put a bigger hard drive on my computer, I'm no closer to piracy than I was with a smaller drive.You can run your own boot loader and bypass copy protection.

It was true of the Xbox anyway. Dunno if it still is for 360. Oh, and it's is called softmodding.

[Kobal2]

I don't follow. If I put a bigger hard drive on my computer, I'm no closer to piracy than I was with a smaller drive.

If I'm not mistaken, Microsoft recently added a way to install your games on the hard drive, so you don't have to put the disc in to play them. I figure it would therefore be possible to install pirate games from your PC to a hard drive, then plug it on an Xbox and voila, game works without having to mod your console further.

And/or people could just trade each other their games, install them to the hard drive and play them all they want, since there's no further disc check. Two people playing one copy of a game... you could see why Microsoft would want to stomp on that kind of thing. Why, you could even rent tons of games, install them and play them forever. Which is fine right now, since to do that you have to shell out N times 100 bucks directly to Microsoft for additional console hard drives, because you can only install so many full DVDs to a 40, 80 or 120 Gigs drive. But paying less money, and to a third party to boot ? That will just not do.

[yojimbo]

IIRC even if you installed to HD you still need to put the disk in to launch the game.

I don't install to HD as I only have a 20GB drive

[Least Original User Name Ever]

IIRC even if you installed to HD you still need to put the disk in to launch the game.

I don't install to HD as I only have a 20GB drive

This is correct. I know of someone that still mods. There's something that he has that tells the DVD drive that there's a disc in there, even though there isn't.

[TBG]

There's something that he has that tells the DVD drive that there's a disc in there, even though there isn't.

Not on a 360 he doesn't. 360 modding is done mostly by flashing the DVD drive with a custom firmware, which tells it to treat backed up discs as original discs. That's it. There's no way to play without a disc, just the disc no longer has to be an original copy once modded.

Also, at this point, you really don't want to be using such a flashed drive. MS has been banning such consoles at an alarming rate, and they aren't just blocking them from connecting to Live, as in previous ban waves, they're also fucking with the functionality of the hard drives.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Not on a 360 he doesn't. 360 modding is done mostly by flashing the DVD drive with a custom firmware, which tells it to treat backed up discs as original discs. That's it. There's no way to play without a disc, just the disc no longer has to be an original copy once modded.

Also, at this point, you really don't want to be using such a flashed drive. MS has been banning such consoles at an alarming rate, and they aren't just blocking them from connecting to Live, as in previous ban waves, they're also fucking with the functionality of the hard drives.

Yep. On a 360, he does.


Yoda has spoken.

[Munch]

So what is GameStop going to do to control buying banned consoles? Stop buying for a while? Hook them up?

[Least Original User Name Ever]

So what is GameStop going to do to control buying banned consoles? Stop buying for a while? Hook them up?

Probably not. GameStop will probably sell them to you, but happily accept the return and give you another used console, which may or may not have the same problem.

[TBG]

Yep. On a 360, he does.


Yoda has spoken.

Then full of crap Yoda is.

There's no way to play disc based 360 games without having a disc, original or backup, in the drive.

Cite (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=687079&st=0&p=4499793&#entry4499793)

No you cant play game from the HDD without a disc in the console.

Note for mods: that's a site about hacking and modifying systems, but it's highly moderated and they don't host or allow linking to any illegal or copyright violating files, so I assume in good faith that this link does not violate SD rules.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Hm. It could be that I misunderstood him. In either case, he pirates a bunch of his games.

[Kobal2]

IIRC even if you installed to HD you still need to put the disk in to launch the game.

I don't install to HD as I only have a 20GB drive

I stand corrected.

Also, *Carlin voice*, this is fookin' stoopid. Why would you install to the hard drive if you still need the physical disc in ? I reckoned that was the whole point (20 GB drive here, too. And Rock Band songs are hogging most of the space, too).

[Simplicio]

I stand corrected.

Also, *Carlin voice*, this is fookin' stoopid. Why would you install to the hard drive if you still need the physical disc in ? I reckoned that was the whole point (20 GB drive here, too. And Rock Band songs are hogging most of the space, too).

Faster read times off the HD, I presume.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

Some games have faster read time, for example, the Last Remnants has to be installed on the hard disk or else it would take forever to load when you transit to another area. Also, the spinning sound of the DVD drive is nigh uncomfortable for its case.

[Valgard]

I must admit, it never occurred to me that replacing the HDD would be considered an illegal mod. Is this true with the PS3 too? I'm sure I've seen a guide to replacing the HDD in the official PS3 mag. so I hope not...

You should be fine. I happen to have my PS3 owner's manual right here and starting on p16 are the instructions for removing/replacing the hard disk. Sony also put utilities on the PS3 for backing up and restoring your data.

[Madd Maxx]

You should be fine. I happen to have my PS3 owner's manual right here and starting on p16 are the instructions for removing/replacing the hard disk. Sony also put utilities on the PS3 for backing up and restoring your data.

Just to chime in, I replaced my PS3's HDD last year. I went from the launch 20gb (which I had filled up) and installed a 320gb that I bought on newegg. It took longer to back up and then copy the old data over to the new HDD than it did to change the drive itself. There is a cover that pops off and then you have to remove 5 screws. In fact the PSNetwork info is even stored in local memory so even after swapping the drive and formatting the drive (which the PS3 did automatically on bootup) but before I copied my data back over it logged me right into my account. I have never had a problem since.