Anime

[Wolverine]

I'm new to the world of anime, mainly through Toonami. Yet I've known about it for a long time, especially through comics. Comics can have a magna or anime feel. But what is the difference? What is magna? What is anime? I've heard anime in refrence to TV, film, and comics. I've only heard magna in refrence to comics. I'm looking for some help in understanding anime.

[Doobieous]

In Japan there is a pretty strict division between the two. Manga refers solely to the comics. Anime refers to the actual animated Manga stories (i'm not sure, but the word comes from the word animation).

Manga is written for everyone (they even have manga targeted at housewives), while anime tends to be a little more for children (Pokemon, Sailor Moon), dirty men (La Blue Girl), and teen to college age guys (Gundam Wing, Sailor Moon) :).

Most anime you get in the US is aimed at children (Pokemon), boys (Dragon Ball Z, Gundam Wing), and in the hentai market (hentai means prevert), horny college age guys, or dirty men. The "graphic novels" you buy in comic book stores are manga.

A lot of this is tongue in cheek, so i hope the *otakus on the board dont take too much offense, or none at all. I'm sure if i've goofed any info they'll correct me. :D

*otaku is the label hardcore anime and manga fans take for themselves. It's actually fairly derogatory in Japan, and means something like geek or nerd (used to describe someone who has WAY too much interest in something).

By the way, I like what they show on Toonami. Well, I at least like the Tenchi Muyo series they've been showing (currently Tenchi in Tokyo).

[Wolverine]

Thank you. That's what I thought but I didn't know for sure. Some magazines when refrencing a comic book artist style sometimes refer to it as magna or anime influenced, but using both terms which becomes confusing.

There's even a humourous thread in IMHO that was helpful in describing anime but didn't address the magna/anime difference.

The Laws of Anime (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49654)

[V.bis and Baudhead]

Here's a link which you may find useful:

http://www.mediajunkies.com/movies/anime/understand_anime_basics030300.shtml

Also try http://anime.about.com/movies/anime/mbody.htm. They have a ton of good links on the subject.

In general, manga = Japanese comic books and anime = Japanese cartoons. Both are written pretty much for everyone, though the biggest markets seem to be for high school aged girls, adolescent and college-aged boys, and kids. Both also use many of the same artistic styles and so forth.

Anime seems to be produced for pretty much all the demographics for which manga is produced, which is not surprising, since many anime series have their start as manga series which simply got popular enough for a TV release. (It's tempting to say that anime is primarily produced for college-aged males and kids, since that's who usually watches it in the US. But bear in mind that most anime, even for girls and kids, contains sci-fi elements and a certain amount of sex, which tends to restrict the US audience to males of college age and above. These elements seem to be popular with a much more broad market in Japan.) However, anime is not simply animated manga, since there are many shows which are original to the medium, or which began as an OAV (direct-to-video - "Original Animation Video") release or even a video game (e.g., Pokemon).

[Intriguing Question Mark]

I have been an anime fan for over two years. I don't see why everyone is saying anime is for college boys and kids. A lot of shows are directed towards girls like marmalade boy, fushigi yuugi, and hana yori dango. These are like anime soap operas and are made for teen girls. You can find a show to fit almost anything.
As for the words, I am taking Japanese and manga is the japanese word for comic. Anime is the way they say animation, they just "shorten everything" (quoting my teacher) convenience store is conbenio and restraunt is resutoran so animation is anime. In the U.S. though Anime tends to be an all inclusive title for both.
I tend to not like toonami cause they really butchered sailor moon. If you watch it in japanese Uranus and neptune are lovers and saturn is the anti-christ adn it can be really cool. I've heard they dont do so bad with dragon ball z and gundam but I quit watching it on tv and started renting and buying tapes. Keep watching Toonami though, one of my fave shows is going to start Jan 15, Outlaw star!!

[RawkStah]

Mark: I think that it's interesting that in Japan the cartoon that causes seziures and has Pikachu is called 'Poket Monsters', while the American version has been shortened to Pokemon...

[Doobieous]

I have been an anime fan for over two years. I don't see why everyone is saying anime is for college boys and kids. A lot of shows are directed towards girls like marmalade boy, fushigi yuugi, and hana yori dango. These are like anime soap operas and are made for teen girls. You can find a show to fit almost anything.

I didnt say it was ALL for boys and college age guys. I do know that a lot is for girls, but the majority of it is generally aimed towards people between the ages of about 8 - 25. I doubt there's an anime made from the manga for businessmen, or for housewives. And series like Tenchi Muyo are targeted at both girls and boys (gun fights and action for boys, the relationship between tenchi and all the ladies for the girls). Also, the hentai market is fairly large as well.

I did some research a couple of years ago on this very subject for a Japanese culture class in my University, and what i found that a lot was indeed meant for boys and college age guys. That's not saying all of it is meant for college age guys and boys.

[Tengu]

Originally posted by Doobieous
And series like Tenchi Muyo are targeted at both girls and boys (gun fights and action for boys, the relationship between tenchi and all the ladies for the girls).

Personally, I'd say the relationships are as much for the guys as the action is. I mean...what guy doesn't want 2 good looking girls fighting over him?

Tenchi is the ultimate Shonen show, IMO...

BTW, the only thing I'd take issue with in your original post is the line 'Anime refers to the actual animated Manga stories' which implies that ALL anime are from manga which isn't true. A good deal are original (although many of them get adapted into manga - Gundam, Macross, Escaflowne (Both a shonen and a shojo series based on it, IIRC), Tenchi, etc...).

[jayjay]

For those who are complete anime-virgins:

Shonen is Japanese for pretty boy and usually has a very attractive young man (or young men) as the protagonist(s). Tenchi Muyo is a shonen anime.

Shojo (or shoujo) is pretty girl and usually has a very attractive young woman (or women) as the protagonist(s). Sailor Moon is a shojo anime.

[Tengu]

Originally posted by jayjay
Shonen is Japanese for pretty boy

Shojo (or shoujo) is pretty girl

Eeeeh, not quite.

Shonen and Shojo are YOUNG boy/girl. They refer to the genres aimed at those groups. (The equivelant for older readers are Seinen and Josei.)

Bishonen and Bishojo are Pretty boy/girl.

Bishonen are (generally) a Shojo phenomenon - and also usually very feminine (But some have taken to using it to mean 'Guy I think is hot' - I dislike that usage.). Bishojo...well...it's not as a strictly defined word, but it would be a Shonen phenomenon.

(An exception to the above rule would be Gundam Wing which is a Shonen show, but full of Bishonen. And a huge feminine following. These two points follow.)

[Intriguing Question Mark]

Originally posted by Doobieous
I doubt there's an anime made from the manga for businessmen, or for housewives.
I said anything not anyone, meaning sci fi, fantasy, horror, romance, etc. :)

I didnt say it was ALL for boys and college age guys
Yeah, you caught me, I misread (that's what I get for skimming) and was eager to post. It's not to often an anime thread comes along.
On the word otaku, if you ever want to call yourself that watch "Otaku no Video" (released by Animeigo). My anime club at school showed that and after seeing real japanese otaku you'll never want to be associated with that word again (and that was their reason for showing it) :D

[SterlingNorth]

Originally posted by Intriguing Question Mark
I ... was eager to post. It's not to often an anime thread comes along.


Think of how I feel when an [American] animation thread (not started by me) comes up. Regarding mechanics and not "Scooby sucks," or "X is my fav," those are quite rare.

So, Intrigue, is Outlaw Star any good? The Toonami promos look quite cool, however they made Sailor Moon look good.



Anyway, in the case of edits (and you know they are going to put pants on that naked girl) I wonder how much control, or supervision comes from Toonami? I know they were hands on in the case of the Tenchi triad and Gundam Wing, but I wonder how much they had over Sailor Moon or DBZ. (I believed they let Funimation do whatever they wished with DBZ. I honestly have no clue how much deferral was given or which way it went in respect with Cloverway and Cartoon Network.)

[Intriguing Question Mark]

They're putting PANTS on Melfina??????? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Why oh why did they have to choose outlaw star???
Anyway yes it's a very good show, though my friend insists there's not much plot (she started watching in the middle of the series). If you get the chance watch it subtitles or at least unedited. It's set in space (obviously) and the main characters are trying to find why melfina was created and the galactic ley line, which is connected to her past, while avoiding pirates and other people who want their ship (which is also connected to her) and melfina and trying to make money so they can keep looking. It's one of my favorites (my others being Rurouni Kenshin and Kareshi kanojyo no jijyo). I've heard that the voice actors were called in to redo some parts so there is editing script wise (I really dont like the dub voices). As for sailor moon I have read that cartoon network didnt have anything to do with the dub. I know a company in Canada did those and I think CN had to buy them as is, I am so glad I got the fansubs before the S season came out. I dont know about the other shows because I dont watch toonami anymore but I think I'm going to try and catch outlaw star, just to see what they do with the gay guy, nudity, and other interesting sittuations that come up :D

[Intriguing Question Mark]

Oh wait, do you mean you think they'll put pants on he or you've heard it? Her nudity on the ship isnt all that bad, she's mostly covered up. God I hope they dont really do that... ::calm down I.Q. it's okay, it's just a show::breath::
:D :D

[SterlingNorth]

Animation is not automatically a children-only ghetto the world over! -- BobSchroeck (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=903226#post903226)

I've heard the pants thing off the grapevine -- so to speak. Since I don't have any people closer than Ft. Benning, GA; I can't say with any possible confidence about what they'll do at Cartoon Network. This was also the same grapevine, where I heard [too] that the VAs were called back to re-dub some dialogue. To make Gene less of a rascal who gets his groove on, I suppose. (Unfortunately, this was also the same vine that thought OS would be cut to fifteen eps because Cartoon Network's internal grid (http://alt.cartoonnetwork.com/Schedule/0,2989,CTN|||Eastern,00.html) wasn't updated beyond January at the time.)

Though unless the nudity is benign or abstract, I don't doubt that it will either be cut or digitally repainted, a la Tenchi. I recall Sean Akins saying so himself. Cartoons are kids stuff after all. :rolleyes:

Actually strike that benign part. There is no such thing as benign nudity. Not even if you shower or bathe. Benign violence, however...

Anyway, I'm meaning to check out the original Outlaw Star from my anime rental place, but I'm still overdue in checking out Escaflowne as noted in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=904605#post904605). Also I'm told Card Captor Sakura is better than WB styled Cardcaptors. But I doubt it would be my cup of tea anyway.

However, I have gotten into Gunsmith Cats for some reason.

[Heath Doolin]

Toonami is hilarious in the cuts..loads of them

Sailor Moon has cousins now instead of lovers and no nipples in the transformation. The talks between those two are hilarious to anyone who has seen the originals

Tenchi Muyo seems to have the strongest "tea" ever made. Apparently seeing the bunch drinking Saki would cause millions of youths to run rapant in the street downing warm rice wine.

and now the Outlaw Star is being chopped.
Sigh

Oh well, at least I can watch it at night without going up to Chinatown to find a copy

[Intriguing Question Mark]

Heath Doolin I dont think there are nipples in the sailor moon transformations. Cartoon network (or whoever) did have some of the outline of their boobs erased so it wasnt quite so...outlined I guess, but I have never noticed nipples in my fansubs.

SterlingNorth, melfina's nudity (at least when she's on the ship) is less than the sailor moon transformations. She has her arms crossed over her chest and the tube she is in has pieces of solid material covering her around the waist, I dont remember if it goes all the way to the floor or not. In other parts (like the first episode) she just stands their naked. Man, I dont want the to put OS on tv!!! Gunsmith cats is pretty good. I do think it's more of a "guy" cartoon though :D. Escaflowne is great (love the music!) and I've been told the dub isnt that bad, though I havent seen it myself. Cardcaptors is a joke, Card captor sakura is great, a true clamp series with homosexual undertones everywhere, just like x/1999 ;) but guys tend to not like it very much. This show was made for little girls, with the cute clothes and costumes and everything.

[Balance]

Originally posted by Heath Doolin
Tenchi Muyo seems to have the strongest "tea" ever made. Apparently seeing the bunch drinking Saki would cause millions of youths to run rapant in the street downing warm rice wine.

I watch Tenchi Muyo with my niece quite often, and she gets giggle fits when the gang starts drinking "tea" (as opposed to tea, which they do drink on occasion). I find it rather funny myself. I do wish someone would show unbutchered versions on the air--I'm sick of having to scrounge for tapes. I've been looking forward to Outlaw Star--I hope they don't mangle it too badly.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by SterlingNorth

Anyway, I'm meaning to check out the original Outlaw Star from my anime rental place, but I'm still overdue in checking out Escaflowne as noted in this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=904605#post904605).

There are several stores around me that carry a good supply of anime but I have to buy them. It has been the biggest intimdator to me yet. The video rental places around me carry only a very limited amount. Recently, I have been able to watch some of the stuff on the Encore-Action channel Saturday nights around 11:00.

Being a newbie, where should I start? I'm talking about purchasing videos or DVDs but on a limited budget. (Not too limited, but no big series like DBZ) I'm looking for quality in storyline and dialouge. MS Gundam over DBZ. I also have no hangups about dubbing or subtitles. Yet.

[Intriguing Question Mark]

I was started with the Rayearth OVA's, the X movie, and a show called Gestalt. I would suggest Neon Genisis Evangeleon (the dub's actually not too bad) The Rayearth OVAs (oav) and if you want something crazy try childs toy, you can get it fansubbed for about $7 a tape. For horror try the mermaid scar or mermaid forest movies, for pointless violence try berserk, Bastard is good too. If you go to fansub sites you can get really good shows that arent out in america for a lot less. If you tell me what you like I can try and make better suggestions ^_^ I've seen lots of random stuff through my anime club and the two anime rental places here.

[SterlingNorth]

I was watching an episode of "Duckman" on tape, and there was a scene near the beginning, where his [hated] sister-in-law...I forgot her name...was championing some video editing device. It changed a cigar that some old movie character was smoking into a carrot.

I bring this up because I just remembered that Cartoon Network was reportedly busy editing a cigarette out of some show. The thing about it was, you could still see the wiff of smoke eminating from the thin air. I'm not too sure, but Outlaw might be the show.

Anyway, my curiosity is where I wonder why people who've seen or owned the originals in some form take it as a personal insult if the show is edited...even just a little for television. Generally I've seen onlime missives about the bikini bathwear, missing innuendo, and alcoholic 'tea' from die-hard Tenchi fans. I just chuckle at the incongruity of the scene and the sometimes random praticioner at Broadcast Standards and Practices. I see that as less of an insult to my intellect than dropping episodes to adjust plot to get a different audience.

Of course you can ask if I don't care, why does BS&P?

Anyway, in general I'm not militantly opposed to edits done to a show because of content (to get pas BS&P) or time. It's done all the time to every show. Though I don't see the problem in showing some skin, or having someone smoke onscreen (I've seen worse and lived) there are some whom are uncomfortable with that sort of thing. This is still daytime television on the "Cartoon Network". However I'll get upset if the edits help to in effect change the plot structure or story.

Anyway, a lot of people will get mad at the 'stupid' edits such as the cigarette, Serena's nipples of Ryoko's social drinking. I probably won't. I can still go to AnimeFX and rent if (if I stop being so damn cheap). However if episodes 1-3 are cut just to make the thing more palatible to the boys, rewriting exposition in the process, well that's stupid. I'll just do a rewrite on The Color Purple because some of it is too touchy to deal with. Anyway,

I'm looking forward for its American television premire on Monday.

[Heath Doolin]

good speech...

But no...I do not take any changes as insults. Only laughable. See, the funny thing is that these shows minus the safe cuts are shown on National TV during regular hours in a whole lotta Japanese households. Inevitably, there are a few kids gonna watch it.

Now why do they sanitized for 12 year old Billy what 12 year old Mihoshi watched? Dunno. Apparently, we find cartoons to be the leading cause of all juvenile deliquency and need to make the necessary changes. At least, that is the only reason why they change it I can figure.

Do I care if they change it? Not really as long as the story does not suffer.

It may in certain ep of Outlaw Star. Here is to hope they can work it

[Intriguing Question Mark]

It's like what Heath Doolin said, it's not an insult it's just why take a good show that was okay for kids from Japan and edit it to show here. Also why take a show that is meant for slightly older viewers and try to make it okay for 7 year olds? We get good laughs out of the edits and stuff but things like making Haruka an Michiru from sailor moon cousins is going to far, especially when the relationship ends up looking incestuous that bugs me. Oh well I'll watch it anyway :D

[Gadarene]

[hijack]

There's a fantastic song by the musician Momus (http://www.demon.co.uk/momus/) entitled Bishonen that I think y'all would get a kick out of. Rather than reprint it here, I'll direct you to the lyrics page (http://www.demon.co.uk/momus/index17.html) of the record on which Bishonen appears.

It's about halfway down the page. Here's an excerpt (the first two verses):


I was born in the town of Paisley in early 1960
And placed in the care of an old eternal bachelor
A strict disciplinarian, a passionate antiquarian
His collection of myths and legends was spectacular

As a younger man, he'd been to see Japan
Where a master in a white kimono taught him
In a shining moment the myth of the bishonen
The youthful hero doomed to fall like blossom


Check it out.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Man, I've been away from this thread for too long....

Wolvie, as far as having a good storyline and dialogue, I'd strongly recommend Fushigi Yugi which is very good along these lines. For better or for worse, however, it's a 2 season series, meaning 8 DVDs between the two box sets (which'll run you close to $300 total) and god knows how many individually.

Also good - though it's a 95 episode series, all said and done - is one of IQM's and my favorites, Rurouni Kenshin. Very good dialogue and the storyline with really cool villains and anti-heroes and very good pacing throughout (as opposed to DBZ's 45:1 trash talking to action ratio). IIRC, there are about 4 DVDs of the series out, and the OVA (original video animation) series should all be out on DVD by now as well. I'm a big fan of the OVAs and you can feel free to watch them as they occur before the TV series chronologically, so there are no spoilers. The art style is pretty dramatically different from the TV series though (it's also much darker thematically), so if you dislike these aspects of it, don't hold it against the TV series.

Love Hina, my newly appointed third favorite series also has great dialogue and is HILARIOUS! A lot of the humor are kind of anime in-jokish, borrowing a bit of its humor from Ranma 1/2 but that shouldn't be too much of an issue even for a newbie.

So, IQM, how is KKnJ? And is it still available on fansub? For that matter, um, what's it about?

Oh, and my vote for best (and most needless) edit is Pokemon's referring to a musubi (rice ball) as a jelly doughnut. :)

[Ura-Maru]

Heh. I rember thinking, when first seeing Cowboy Bebop that it would never, ever, get on american TV. Not because of the sex (of which there was none) or the violence (Which wasn't bad) but because everyone in the series smokes, all the time. :)

Cartoon Networks BS&P is so random, its funny. They seem to cut things out more or less completly at random, cutting out jokes in one episode, and leaving the exact same one in three eps later. Part of it might be just time based. "We need to cut three minutes, might as well do the parts that people might object too."

To be fair, though, the CN specific edits wern't bad at all. Most of the comical ones that they show were done either by Funmation or Cloverweight (CN wasn't involved). Gundam Wing and Tenchi both made it through with no plot or character alterations or other major changes. Though they did cut a drinking scene out of ReBoot, the dastards.


Mark: I think that it's interesting that in Japan the cartoon that causes seziures and has Pikachu is called 'Poket Monsters', while the American version has been shortened to Pokemon...

Not quite. The cartoon was called Pocket Monsters, but said monsters were refered too as pokemon. Contracting long names to cutsy short versions is common among japanese kids and adolecents, which gives language purists in Japan fits.

I've never seen either version of Cardcaptors but everyone I know who's seen both insists that the backlash is a huge overreation by people who haven't seen the original. The original was a pokemon-esqe toy driven show, not Tokyo Babylon. Just a pretty good one with a bit of Clamp wierdness.

I'm still amazed that Slayers hasn't shown up on TV yet. Almost no Japan-specific humor, no sex, no real violence, funny in a generally non-offensive way, and later some pretty good, non-bloody action.

About Outlaw Star, everything I've heard is that it's fun action but not much more. The guy at http://www.animeondvd.com absolutly loves it, for what that's worth.

Escaflowne, Kenshin, and Fushgi Yugi are all great, (the last one has a LOT of whining, though) as well as the as-yet-unmentioned Bubble Gum Crisis 2040 and Sabre Marionette J; but if you're looking for something a bit shorter than a whole TV season, Wolvie, you might want to look up Macross Plus, Gundam:Stardust Memory (Can't remember the year) or Key the Metal Idol, thought the latter gets pretty wierd.

Heh. It's a good thing that copies of Otaku No Video are still floating around. One of the best xmas gifts I ever got.
--
"Is this a superviolent porn cartoon?"

[Intriguing Question Mark]

Hey KKBattousai! I was wondering if you would show up :D I'm not very good at summaries but here I go:
Kare Kano is great, it's done by Gainex and it's about this group of high school students. It starts with Yukino who is a model student and the top of her middle school class, admired by teachers and students alike, but this is all an act. Her only purpose in life is to be praised and loved by everyone. At home she's messy, childish, and lazy. When she reaches high school she expects to be the class representative (based on grades) but someone beats her. To make herself feel better she assumes it's some ugly dork but it's Arima Souichirou, a beautiful young man from a rich family and she looses it. Arima confesses his love to her but she blows him off and is very happy because to her this means she's won. One day when she's at home dressed in her sweats and looking very bad Arima comes by her house and discovers her secret. He uses what he saw to blackmail her into doing some of his work (aka spend time with him). Well eventually Yukino realizes she likes him too and once they get together (it takes only 4 episodes) other characters show up and the show deals with all of their problems. It's a romance but not in a Fushigi yuugi or marmalade boy way. It deals with the characters inner thoughts, feelings, insecurities and stuff. The anime just leaves off with no real ending but the manga is still going. I like it a LOT! The right stuf has the rights to the show and is suppose to be releasing it this spring but you can still get fansubs here http://sakuraanime.homepage.com/s_orders.html (it's listed as his and her circumstances) and a good episode summary here http://www.amotokyo.com/default.asp?main=/main/info/karekano/index.htm
I really really love this show, next to kenshin, it's my favorite.

I'll shut up now :D

(sorry if this is in anyway confusing mixed up or whatever, I'm having a hard time concentrating :))