My boss thinks she's invited to my wedding... help!

[Serenata67]

My boss (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=540697)keeps hinting that I need to invite her to my wedding. She "jokes" that she's going to crash if she doesn't get an invite... but we all know she doesn't joke. If she "jokes" that you're getting audited tomorrow, you're getting audited tomorrow. I'm not inviting any of my coworkers; it's friends and family and I haven't become friends with any of them. Plus, at $20 a head, to invite the entire office and their spouses would be over $500. When people at the office have asked about the wedding, I let them know nicely that, though we wish we could invite everyone both of us work with, it's just not financially feasible. My coworkers understand that and are fine with it. My boss, however, thinks that because she's my boss, I need to invite her. She even said, "just invite me to the dance. I don't need dinner, I like free beer!"

Some people have said that she probably thinks she's invited because I talk about the wedding at work. I'm under the "don't talk unless specifically asked" rule. I know I'm not going to invite them. I'm not going around spilling my guts about my cake just 'cause I'm excited. I mean, if someone asks me, "Are you getting excited about the wedding?" or "How are the plans going?" I provide a short but polite answer, like "I'm really excited. It'll be beautiful." or "The plans are going pretty well. Still have a lot to do though." and I leave it at that.

There are times I've had to let my boss know about wedding related appointments for scheduling reasons. One time she changed the schedule last minute and I had an appointment with my seamstress to get the dress altered and I had to tell her about it. I had to take the time off for the wedding/honeymoon. I have a hair appointment three weeks before the wedding to get it cut and colored that I had to let her know about for scheduling purposes. Usually I try the "I have an appointment on such and such day at such and such time and need to be done by such and such time." Then she presses to know what it's for and all that.

Whenever I see her, I get anxious. She's been so terrible to me that there is no way on Og's green earth that I want to see her on the happiest day of my life. With her, it's not the cost issue, it's the she's a meanie reason. I sooo want to say to her "My wedding is for friends and family only; by what stretch of the imagination are you and I friends?" But she is known for retaliating and bullying (see above link), so I'm not sure how to "let her down easy."

Any advice? Any ideas? How can I gently tell her I don't want her there?

[NinetyWt]

I let them know nicely that, though we wish we could invite everyone both of us work with, it's just not financially feasible.

I don't see what's wrong with just repeating this sweetly every time she brings it up.

She even said, "just invite me to the dance. I don't need dinner, I like free beer!"


Ick! I wish there was a nice way to say "It's not free, you moron, I'm paying for it !!".

[Serenata67]

I don't see what's wrong with just repeating this sweetly every time she brings it up.



Ick! I wish there was a nice way to say "It's not free, you moron, I'm paying for it !!".

Yeah, she seems to think that she can come to the dance part. She more or less understands I can't afford to feed her and her husband for dinner. But she's convinced that she can come to the dance and drink beer. I don't want to even think about her, muchless see her. I can't stand her.

I can't use the cost excuse because it doesn't cost me more money to have her come to the dance part (unlimited beer is included in the hall package--gotta love Wisconsin!).

What excuse can I use?

[twickster]

Don't tell her where it is. How can she come when she doesn't know where it is?

[melodyharmonius]

Thank her for being so understanding about the wedding and all your appointments and that you hate that you just can't invite people from work. Tell her that you appreciate her support as you've been so afraid of hurting people's feelings - and that you hope she will help you squash any hurt feelings your co-workers may have about not being invited.

Act like she understands she's not invited - even though she doesn't. Give her a chance to save face like she's just teasing you - and make her your partner in keeping things low-key at work.

Sometimes idiots just need to feel like they are part of the process rather than left out.

[fluiddruid]

Perhaps the venue is small and has a strict maximum number of people, and friends and family take priority?

[Serenata67]

I was assembling and addressing invites on my lunch hour. She is notorious for ruining lunch hours by coming into the break room to "chat" and she saw the invites. She knows where it is. She knows the date, time, place...

She knows everything except my burning contempt for her.

[ShelliBean]

You are in a pickle. I'm sorry about that, but please don't let it consume your big day. Don't invite her and if she crashes, she crashes. Just ignore her and please don't let her take away your joy on that day.

When she says stuff about getting invited could you say "I know! I sure wish I could!" and make some hemming and hawing about already cutting some of the grooms family and dear old aunt Ethel too? I know you don't like her and sure, it would be great to say "No. Because I hate you." but reading that other thread I am sure she would make you miserable over it.

But here's a thought - and I didn't finish the other thread yet so if it's already been answered ignore me: you could just say "no, I'm sorry but you make me miserable at work and I don't want to invite you. And now I have to worry about you retaliating for what you think is a transgression." And she will retaliate. So be prepared, document it and get transferred? It's kind of an assy thing to do, but it would kill two birds with one stone...

[Serenata67]

You are in a pickle. I'm sorry about that, but please don't let it consume your big day. Don't invite her and if she crashes, she crashes. Just ignore her and please don't let her take away your joy on that day.

When she says stuff about getting invited could you say "I know! I sure wish I could!" and make some hemming and hawing about already cutting some of the grooms family and dear old aunt Ethel too? I know you don't like her and sure, it would be great to say "No. Because I hate you." but reading that other thread I am sure she would make you miserable over it.

But here's a thought - and I didn't finish the other thread yet so if it's already been answered ignore me: you could just say "no, I'm sorry but you make me miserable at work and I don't want to invite you. And now I have to worry about you retaliating for what you think is a transgression." And she will retaliate. So be prepared, document it and get transferred? It's kind of an assy thing to do, but it would kill two birds with one stone...

Hmm... I like the way you think... I'll have to mull this one over.

I'm thinking I would greatly enjoy throwing her out of my wedding reception. Part of me almost wants her to crash so I can have the security guard escort her out. Shove her on the pavement....

[sandra_nz]

Is there anyone else in your workplace that she would be more likely to listen to? So perhaps if you got that person to have a quiet word with her, she might get the message?

Failing that, the next time you're talking about the wedding and she's in earshot, you could go with 'Oh my god, I've been reading all these online horror stories about people's weddings, like people thinking they can just turn up to the dance without an invite, can you imagine the rudeness of those people? Thank goodness we don't know anyone like that!'

[melodyharmonius]

Just a thought - but y'know, usually at my church anyone can come to the wedding - but the reception is invite only.

[NinetyWt]

Hey, what if the number of people invited is already the maximum occupancy per the fire code? (for the rented hall)

[dhkendall]

Just a thought - but y'know, usually at my church anyone can come to the wedding - but the reception is invite only.

That's the way it was with mine. Church only sat 120, but I noticed a friend of mine I didn't specifically invite there - not because I don't like her or anything (and was actually happy to see her) but with 120 you pick people carefully. Would this be the case here, Serenata67? No invite, no food, no free beer - doing so otherwise takes food away from an invited guest.

For the reception, we paid for food for 125 people, so if someone crashed, theyr'e either taking food away from someone or they'd be out of luck.

[melodyharmonius]

Is there anyone else in your workplace that she would be more likely to listen to? So perhaps if you got that person to have a quiet word with her, she might get the message?

Failing that, the next time you're talking about the wedding and she's in earshot, you could go with 'Oh my god, I've been reading all these online horror stories about people's weddings, like people thinking they can just turn up to the dance without an invite, can you imagine the rudeness of those people? Thank goodness we don't know anyone like that!'

Good suggestions.

Actually the second part made me laugh in to my coffee cup, getting cream on my glasses . . .

[pbbth]

I am in a similar situation. We have a pseudo family friend (she has occasionally dated my cousin over the last 4 years and invites herself to holiday get togethers) who is a major drunk and uses a lot of recreational drugs who has invited herself to my wedding. I don't want her there at all, but after she found out about my wedding date she took the weekend off of work and bought a plane ticket without waiting for an invitation to arrive. Because I don't hate her and don't want her to have wasted $400 on airfare I will be adding her to the invite list, but I absolutely would not be too sad if she gets lost in a casino and never makes it to the wedding.

I will be asking my maid of honor to keep an eye on her and I will be very clear with the waitstaff that she is to be monitored and cut off if her behavior starts getting out of control. You may be able to do something similar and have someone keep an eye on her to keep her from ruining things if she does show up.

[Markxxx]

In today's economy it simply isn't worthwhile to upset her.

Some people are obnoxious bullies and she is one. You can fight her and run the risk of her making your life miserable at work.

For a few bucks why do this? If your other co-workers understand not inviting them to the wedding, they'd understand why you HAVE to ask her.

If she's that obnoxious then it's highly unlikely she's that way with just you, so the others will understand.

There's no point in making the rest of your days at work miserable, and in today's economy there's no point in taking the slightest risk to lose your job.

You're right of course, but is being right will not pay your rent and food bill? Is being right gonna get you a glowing reference when she makes your life at works so miserable at work for not inviting her, you quit?

No it won't.

There's a time to be right and a time to suck it up and do what's required.

You have to learn not only when to pick your battles, but at what time, and how you choose to fight them

[Dewey Finn]

I recommend saying, apologetically, that the wedding is for immediate family only and repeating this as necessary. Ideally, you'd have started by saying this the first time she mentioned it. Do not mention that any friends are coming. If you bring in wedding photos, make sure that they only show immediate relatives.

[Chez Guevara]

In today's economy it simply isn't worthwhile to upset her.Presumably this rules out lying about the wedding venue.

[Serenata67]

I think I'll reiterate one more time, firmly but politely, that we will not be inviting any of our coworkers to anything. If she decides to crash, I will have the on-duty security guard escort her out. She will not have a place card; she will not have a seat assigned. I think I'll put my sister (my maid of honor) and my very imposing brother on lookout for her. If she shows up, they will inform the security guard and between the three of them, she will be removed and I won't have to deal with her. If she harbors ill will for being removed when she knows she's crashing, that's hers to deal with. I have one foot out the door at my employer and am looking for a way out. I'm not going to let her ruin my day.

[elbows]

Go to HR and tell them your dilemma and your concerns about retaliation/bullying. Let them sort it out.

Consider putting a beautifully handwritten sign at the entry to the venue, "This event is by invitation only, 'Name of boss', this means you!"

One more suggestion, find out what she's planning to wear, what colour her dress is, or some extremely easy way to identify her. Then set some large male party goer as bouncer, it's his one job to bounce this one person. You give the nod, as soon as she is spied, out she goes, no muss, no fuss. If you couple this with going to HR I think you've covered all the bases!

[crazyjoe]

Is this something else you could mention to your branch manager, given they he approached you in the past? I am pretty sure that the branch mgr will know the ins and outs of what's appropriate and could handle this from a level of authority that you cannot project.

[Agent Foxtrot]

In today's economy it simply isn't worthwhile to upset her.

Some people are obnoxious bullies and she is one. You can fight her and run the risk of her making your life miserable at work.

For a few bucks why do this? If your other co-workers understand not inviting them to the wedding, they'd understand why you HAVE to ask her.

If she's that obnoxious then it's highly unlikely she's that way with just you, so the others will understand.

There's no point in making the rest of your days at work miserable, and in today's economy there's no point in taking the slightest risk to lose your job.

You're right of course, but is being right will not pay your rent and food bill? Is being right gonna get you a glowing reference when she makes your life at works so miserable at work for not inviting her, you quit?

No it won't.

There's a time to be right and a time to suck it up and do what's required.

You have to learn not only when to pick your battles, but at what time, and how you choose to fight themI flat-out disagree with this.

This is the OP's once-in-a-lifetime day. A nice wedding requires months of planning, appointments, and cash. The OP does not like her boss and does not consider her a friend. She should not be bullied into inviting this person to the wedding, especially since the boss made it crystal clear that she only wants to go for the free beer and food (how classy!). This is a wedding, not a frat party.

Next time the boss brings it up, drop a very clear hint by saying, "I wish I could have you there, I am sorry," and leave it at that. Inform HR ahead of time what is going on and tell them you suspect you will be retaliated against. When that time comes, HR will know the story and be ready. Unless you're making six figures or have a dream job, it's not worth letting one snotty boss in your life screw up your big day.

[sugar and spice]

When she says stuff about getting invited could you say "I know! I sure wish I could!" and make some hemming and hawing about already cutting some of the grooms family and dear old aunt Ethel too? I think this is a good way of phrasing it. And really, if you say no and she does show up for an hour during the dancing then you probably won't notice her, she'll chit chat with a few people then realize she doesn't know anyone and then leave. And you will have an incriminating photo (be sure to get a photo!) of her stalking you in your personal life, that you can show to HR if need be.

[melodyharmonius]

Next time the boss brings it up, drop a very clear hint by saying, "I wish I could have you there, I am sorry," and leave it at that. .


I wouldn't even go that far. I rescind my former suggestion and would just say. "I'm sorry that we can't invite everyone. I know how much you want to go."

She obviously doesn't wish she could have her there.

[ZipperJJ]

One more suggestion, find out what she's planning to wear, what colour her dress is, or some extremely easy way to identify her. Then set some large male party goer as bouncer, it's his one job to bounce this one person. You give the nod, as soon as she is spied, out she goes, no muss, no fuss. If you couple this with going to HR I think you've covered all the bases!

No way, dude! Asking her what she's wearing is basically inviting her!

I agree with melodyharmonious. "Hmm, yeah, that IS a bummer..." is all you need to say.

And also I agree with Agent Foxtrot, re: Marxx. There's no way she should have to "suck it up" and let the bitch come. This isn't communist Russia - she has the right to a private private life outside of work!

Although, I am getting quite excited now for the wedding. I want to know what Crazy Boss Lady ends up doing. Sick and sad of me, I know. But y'all are thinking it too... ;)

[badbadrubberpiggy]

I wouldn't even go that far. I rescind my former suggestion and would just say. "I'm sorry that we can't invite everyone. I know how much you want to go."

She obviously doesn't wish she could have her there.

I agree that you should definitely leave out the "wish I could invite you!" part, no matter what you say. Because she'll take you at your word, and use that as an excuse to show up, deciding you really do want her there.

[Contrapuntal]

I think I'll reiterate one more time, firmly but politely, that we will not be inviting any of our coworkers to anything. If she decides to crash, I will have the on-duty security guard escort her out. She will not have a place card; she will not have a seat assigned. I think I'll put my sister (my maid of honor) and my very imposing brother on lookout for her. If she shows up, they will inform the security guard and between the three of them, she will be removed and I won't have to deal with her. If she harbors ill will for being removed when she knows she's crashing, that's hers to deal with. I have one foot out the door at my employer and am looking for a way out. I'm not going to let her ruin my day.Good for you. That's how I would handle it.

[BiblioCat]

Although, I am getting quite excited now for the wedding. I want to know what Crazy Boss Lady ends up doing. Sick and sad of me, I know. But y'all are thinking it too... ;)
Me, too. I almost wish *I* could be invited, just to see what happens. I'd like to see Serenata67 take her out with a flying tackle. :p

[melodyharmonius]

Me, too. I almost wish *I* could be invited, just to see what happens. I'd like to see Serenata67 take her out with a flying tackle. :p

Serenata67 needs to set up a web feed so we can sit around the pc with popcorn and take online bets . . .

[tdn]

Good for you. That's how I would handle it.

No apologies, no explanations. You're not sorry you couldn't invite her, and you certainly don't owe her an explanation as to why.

One way to back it up is to go to HR pre-emptively, as others have wisely suggested.

Another thing you could try is to sit her down privately and explain your concerns in a plain and direct way. Explain that you're concerned about retaliation, and explain that you've already gone to HR with your concerns.

If she doesn't get it, slap her upside the head with a trout.

[ShelliBean]

Although, I am getting quite excited now for the wedding. I want to know what Crazy Boss Lady ends up doing. Sick and sad of me, I know. But y'all are thinking it too... ;)

Shamefully, I am.

[Cat Fight]

I was going to suggest, in the interest of your job, that you pass of the blame in the form of overbearing parents or parents-in-law who are funding the wedding and insist on planing everything, including invites... but those who suggested simple refusals are probably right. Then pretend you have something important to do.

[Kolga]

Next time the boss brings it up, drop a very clear hint by saying, "I wish I could have you there, I am sorry," and leave it at that.

Absolutely not. If this person is so utterly clueless and without class that she thinks inviting herself to a wedding is the done thing, she'll take that statement as an expressed invitation.

People like this do not deserve any more tact or politeness than they are giving, and they do not take hints. I would say instead "thanks for being interested in the plans. Unfortunately, we're only inviting family and close friends. Sorry!" Over and over. If she continues with the "oh, I'll just come for the reception!," then it ramps up to "I'm sorry, but we're only inviting family and close friends, and unfortunately, that doesn't include co-workers for either of us."

If that doesn't work, honestly, the only thing left to say is "I'm sorry, you're not invited, nor are any of the people here. We're only having family and close friends." She's going to retaliate anyway, might as well get it out in the open that she Is. Not. Invited.

Honestly, the utter NERVE of some people, thinking that it's acceptable to invite themselves to a WEDDING. I know I shouldn't be amazed at the breathtaking rudeness of some people, but I continuously wonder if these people weren't brought up by wolves.

Inform HR ahead of time what is going on and tell them you suspect you will be retaliated against. When that time comes, HR will know the story and be ready. Unless you're making six figures or have a dream job, it's not worth letting one snotty boss in your life screw up your big day.

This, I definitely agree with. If she gets the message that she's not invited, she'll retaliate. If she doesn't get the message, and actually SHOWS UP (which, again, wtf? Was she raised with absolutely no manners whatsoever?) and is then removed, she'll retaliate. Either way, get HR informed immediately.

[ivylass]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this unwanted stress on your wedding day. I would second (or third) informing HR ahead of time.

[tdn]

I was going to suggest, in the interest of your job, that you pass of the blame in the form of overbearing parents or parents-in-law

Yeah, not this. You want to avoid any subcommunication that you want her there but mean people are preventing it. And I would seriously avoid the word "because." A because can be argued with.

[Oakminster]

You're making this way too complicated. Next time she mentions it, smile and say "GREAT!" and then tell her about how in your family, there is a centuries old tradition of wedding guests getting naked and riding goats. You'll need to rent a goat and tie it on the lawn outside the reception hall. Even if she thinks you're joking, when she gets there and sees the goat, she'll just keep right on driving.

In the alternative, tell her how glad you are she'll be there, because you need a special favor...she has to be the "date" of some possibly fictional relative who might be attending. Feel free to embellish his description with details like his monobrow, acne problem, incontinence, occasional drooling, flatulence, and love of dirty dancing.


As a last resort, bribe one of the kids attending...a young boy would be best...to "accidentally" spill something all over her so she'll leave...but not before you get some stealth pics for later amusements.

[tdn]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but I'll mention it.

Get a third party who has no stake in this to tell the ignorant boss "Seranata is really upset that you invited yourself to her wedding. She doesn't want to say anything to you, but... Really, don't you get how rude that is?"

[StGermain]

I'd talk to her supervisor, and express my worries to her, and ask for her help in dealing with it. I wouldn't go to HR unless it doesn't seem like her supervisor will get involved. And if you do go to HR, make you you have your previous conversation with the supervisor documented. Then if she crashes and you have her escorted out, you're covered.

I certainly wouldn't say "I wish you could come but...", because that gives her the ability to ratioinalize gate-crashing as "she really wants me there. I'll just pop in for a few minutes."

Good luck and congratulations.

StG

[Beadalin]

I disagree strongly with the HR advice in this thread. It would maybe, maybe, be a good idea to talk to them if your boss does in fact retaliate in some way. But to go to them before anything has really happened will cast you in a bad light.

HR is not your friend. They are NEVER your friend. At best, they will help protect your company from being sued by you, or sued by your boss. But keep in mind that shit rolls downhill, and you're an easier target than your boss.

I have read the other thread and I know that you're already documenting some things for HR, and that's cool, keep it up. But don't drag them into what will inevitably be perceived as personal drama relating to a social function off work hours and off work location. This is your problem to solve, not theirs.

Again, if there's retaliation from your boss (at work), then let them know what happens and what you think the cause is. Do not go to them beforehand.

[neuroman]

I disagree strongly with the HR advice in this thread. It would maybe, maybe, be a good idea to talk to them if your boss does in fact retaliate in some way. But to go to them before anything has really happened will cast you in a bad light.

HR is not your friend. They are NEVER your friend. At best, they will help protect your company from being sued by you, or sued by your boss. But keep in mind that shit rolls downhill, and you're an easier target than your boss.
...

Do not go to them beforehand.
Times a million. Going to H.R. beforehand will only make the situation worse. Leave them out of it at all costs.

You're doing the right thing by having wedding party members keep on the lookout to toss her. And definitely do NOT say anything to her that could be construed as an invitation. You might as well shut up entirely about your wedding at work from here on out, even if asked. And if you need to miss work don't even bring the wedding up--just say "personal appointment" or whatever applies.

[Giraffe]

The last thing you want is a messy confrontation with your boss, either at work or at your wedding. These things need to be handled discreetly and with great tact.

Thus, you should hire a drifter to kill her.

[Madd Maxx]

Give her the invitation that she wants. Just give her directions to some local place that is known for doing wedding receptions, preferably across town from where you will actually be. If she calls you out on it later, just claim it was a typo/printing error.

[Cat Whisperer]

I think I'll reiterate one more time, firmly but politely, that we will not be inviting any of our coworkers to anything. If she decides to crash, I will have the on-duty security guard escort her out. She will not have a place card; she will not have a seat assigned. I think I'll put my sister (my maid of honor) and my very imposing brother on lookout for her. If she shows up, they will inform the security guard and between the three of them, she will be removed and I won't have to deal with her. If she harbors ill will for being removed when she knows she's crashing, that's hers to deal with. I have one foot out the door at my employer and am looking for a way out. I'm not going to let her ruin my day.
That sounds good. I would add, next time she talks about crashing your wedding, I'd have a camera ready to take a picture of her, and if she asks why, tell her that you're giving her picture to the security for your wedding since you under no circumstances want her there (especially if you have one foot out the door already).

ETA: I'm getting all exciting about this scenario - you wave your hand grandly at the rest of the office and say, "THEY are not invited to my wedding. YOU ESPECIALLY are not invited to my wedding. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

[TruCelt]

If she does show up, be sure to get pictures. This could prove her stalking you and be an enormous help in the overall conflict.

[panache45]

I think I'll reiterate one more time, firmly but politely, that we will not be inviting any of our coworkers to anything. If she decides to crash, I will have the on-duty security guard escort her out. She will not have a place card; she will not have a seat assigned. I think I'll put my sister (my maid of honor) and my very imposing brother on lookout for her. If she shows up, they will inform the security guard and between the three of them, she will be removed and I won't have to deal with her. If she harbors ill will for being removed when she knows she's crashing, that's hers to deal with. I have one foot out the door at my employer and am looking for a way out. I'm not going to let her ruin my day.

This is the attitude you should maintain. Your wedding is your once-in-a-lifetime event, and you don't want to look back at it with bad memories of an unruly non-guest. If this woman is so rude and inconsiderate on a daily basis, I guarantee she'll be even more rude and inconsiderate with "unlimited beers" in her. She has the power to ruin your day; don't let her do it.

Oh, and your coworkers are going to love it when they hear how this bitch was thrown out on her ass. You're gonna be their hero.

[Ravenman]

I was toying with the idea of saying something like, "My fiance and I thought of inviting co-workers, but then we thought it would be awkward to obligate our colleagues to buying us wedding gifts... you know how uncomfortable it would be if everyone invited to our wedding gave us large, expensive gifts, only to find that one or two colleagues were so stingy in the wedding presents they gave us! So we decided just to avoid the problem and only invite our richest family members and our most wealthy friends! Isn't that a great idea?"

But the advice most people are giving about being increasingly firm about who is actually invited is much more sensible.

[aruvqan]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but I'll mention it.

Get a third party who has no stake in this to tell the ignorant boss "Seranata is really upset that you invited yourself to her wedding. She doesn't want to say anything to you, but... Really, don't you get how rude that is?"

not just any third party but HR. Tell them you feel there may be retaliation, and her insistence at inviting herself to your wedding is putting serious strain on your work and personal life, and it is verging on harassment. Emphasize that your wedding is personal and nobody from work is being invited, so it is in no way considered an extension of your work.

[Arnold Winkelried]

Maybe this has been suggested already in the thread (I've read it all but I might have missed a post), but I would approach her like this:
"I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but could you please do me a favour and not crash the reception? I had to cut some family members from the guest list, and if someone from work shows up, there will be no end of trouble from relatives wondering why great-aunt Hilda was not invited when people from work were. This would make my wedding day very miserable and I would really appreciate it if I didn't have to go through this." If you have any close friends at work willing to help you with this, say it out loud in front of a group of supportive colleagues who can reinforce this with the boss at the same time: "Ooh been there done that! I hope you don't have people getting mad at you on your wedding day."

[Arnold Winkelried]

P.S. Pay one of your loud-mouthed obnoxious relatives to pretend to be drunk and shout very loudly as she comes in "What is this rhymes-with-witch doing here? You said that you weren't inviting anyone from work! You didn't even have room for Cousin Jeff!" At this point, maybe your boss's husband will drag her out of there.
Or have two people at the door greeting people. When she shows up, one of the greeters asks her "Who are you?" She says "I'm Serenata67's boss from work." Then the other greeter says "What?!? I thought no one from work was invited becuase she didn't even have enough room for my uncle!" The two greeters start yelling at each other while blocking the entrance and the angry one aks her "do you have an invitation with you? Were your really officially invited?" When she says no he can kick her out. The your greeter is the bad guy, not you.

[Tom Tildrum]

She may be doing this just to mess with you. Maybe if you did invite her, she then wouldn't show up.

[BrotherCadfael]

Give her the invitation that she wants. Just give her directions to some local place that is known for doing wedding receptions, preferably across town from where you will actually be. If she calls you out on it later, just claim it was a typo/printing error.This was going to be my suggestion. If your reception is at the Elks Lodge, tell her it's at the Moose Lodge across town. If it's at the Sunset Inn, tell her it's at the Sunrise Hotel...

[Q.N. Jones]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no. And you have been scheduling your work around your bridal plans, and not the other way around, as most workplaces would expect. Your boss has done you the favor of allowing this. I'm guessing she expects an invite in exchange.

Actually, you both sound rude and entitled to me. Too late to fix that now. But you need to consider what the ramifications will be to you if you do "toss her out on her ass" should she try to crash your wedding. Do you really think your boss will just let that pass by? Compared to the hell she can put you through at work, you might consider letting her attend just for the peace of mind. Try being gracious about it and not only will it save you trouble at work, but you might feel good about yourself for having taken the high road.

[Maastricht]

If it makes you feel any better, your problem is very common, almost traditional, at weddings. But usually, your boss' role is taken by an estranged parent or in-law.

[cuberdon]

Actually, you both sound rude and entitled to me.

Purely to satisfy my own curiosity, have you read the thread the OP linked to in her first post?

[Q.N. Jones]

Purely to satisfy my own curiosity, have you read the thread the OP linked to in her first post?

Yup. The boss sounds like the far bigger offender to me, but that doesn't mean the OP didn't make mistakes as well.

[MsWhatsit]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no. And you have been scheduling your work around your bridal plans, and not the other way around, as most workplaces would expect. Your boss has done you the favor of allowing this. I'm guessing she expects an invite in exchange.

Well, that's not how wedding invitations work, so if the boss expects that, then the boss is an idiot. Of course, we already know that the boss is an idiot from all the other information the OP has provided. This is just the icing on the cake.

[alice_in_wonderland]

A slightly different perspective:

Mr. Wonderland and I were married just over 2 months ago. We had quite a small wedding - about 50 people, and we had wedding crashers! One woman neither of us had ever met and she wasn't even introduced to us! They wore jeans and uggs!!! They didn't even give us a card, or sign the card of someone else! They complained about the food and where we were able to seat them! I mean it was quite farcical! They were buffoons! Born in a barn! Emily Post would spin in her grave!

Honestly, everything else went so well that we kind of enjoyed that crashers showed up. We've had a really good time cutting them up with other invited guests and it gave us something to grouse about. Really, when people ask about your wedding after the fact it's kind of fun to have a "You have GOT to be kidding me!!" type story to add to all the 'It was so lovely, we're so happy, blah, blah, blah." type stories.

Anyway - I don't know what you should do, but having someone you don't like show up doesn't seem like the worst thing that could happen at your wedding. She'll look like a twat and you can be gracious and look like the star. Or you can have a large scary man or two boot her out which would be pretty entertaining too.

[Cat Whisperer]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no. And you have been scheduling your work around your bridal plans, and not the other way around, as most workplaces would expect. Your boss has done you the favor of allowing this. I'm guessing she expects an invite in exchange.

Actually, you both sound rude and entitled to me. Too late to fix that now. But you need to consider what the ramifications will be to you if you do "toss her out on her ass" should she try to crash your wedding. Do you really think your boss will just let that pass by? Compared to the hell she can put you through at work, you might consider letting her attend just for the peace of mind. Try being gracious about it and not only will it save you trouble at work, but you might feel good about yourself for having taken the high road.
This is actually a good point - in spite of the OP thinking they did everything right, I'd agree that this is a cautionary tale, for why you keep your wedding stuff *completely* separate from work stuff. I don't recall needing to do anything for my wedding during work hours, or have my co-workers see any of my preparations (not even during my lunch hour).

[NinetyWt]

we had wedding crashers! One woman neither of us had ever met and she wasn't even introduced to us!

Just out of curiosity, who was she?

[Q.N. Jones]

Well, that's not how wedding invitations work, so if the boss expects that, then the boss is an idiot. Of course, we already know that the boss is an idiot from all the other information the OP has provided. This is just the icing on the cake.

Actually, it is how etiquette works, for weddings and other occasions. You do not bring invitations into a workplace unless you plan to invite your co-workers. You do not discuss a part in front of someone unless you intend to invite them. You can look it up in Miss Manner or Emily Post or wherever else.

Cat Whisperer is right--this is a cautionary tale. Boss is nuts. Everyone who's ever had an insane boss knows you have to manage the crazy.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Just out of curiosity, who was she?

Some chick that tagged along with a cousin who wasn't invited either. The Mr. knows the cousin, obviously, but I'd never met her, and neither of us had any idea who her friend was.

It was quite hilarious - I don't know if they assumed it was a huge wedding that they could just sneak into unnoticed, but they made huge fools of themselves. No worries for the random friend - we'll never see her again, but the cousin is now the laughing stock of the whole family.

Really, the Mr. and I didn't even have to say anything - it's all anyone could talk about the next day at the gift opening - it was hilarious!

[DrDeth]

In today's economy it simply isn't worthwhile to upset her.

Words of wisdom. Suck it up and invite her.

Beadalin and others are right- HR is not your friend. Do not involve them.

Losing your job is a horrible way to start married life, and just having your boss make your every working day miserable is worse. Unless you already have started another job, just invite her. She will not "ruin your wedding day" unless you let her.

DO get your resumes posted, however. Maybe you'll get lucky.

[The Hamster King]

In situations like this, complicated and clever plans are BAD. They just create more opportunities for confusion and ill-will.

You need to tell your boss, simply and directly, that she's not invited. Speak to her privately and say something like:

"From some of the things you've said recently, I'm afraid you might have gotten the wrong impression about my wedding. Our guest list has already been set and it's limited to family and intimate friends only. I'm sorry, but you're not invited."

If she complains, just keep repeating the same thing over and over again:

"I'm sorry, but it's impossible. The guest list has already been set."

Don't explain and don't rationalize. No matter what she says:

"I'm sorry, but it's impossible. The guest list has already been set."

Warn whoever is manning the door to look out for crashers. If their name isn't on the list, they don't get in, no exceptions.

And don't go to H.R. in advance. Their job isn't to make you happy. Their job is to make sure you don't have grounds to sue the company. They will not help you in this situation.

[Boyo Jim]

As far as setting out scouts to watch for her and throw her out, you need to re-work this. The only way to do it without making it a personal insult to her -- is to have someone at the entrance checking ALL the arrivals against a list. Otherwise, she will get in, start mingling, and if a guard comes up and forcibly removes her, it will be crystal clear to her that this is being done at your explicit order. It almost guarantees retaliation. OTOH, if she sees that there is screening at the door, she might be intimidated enough not even to try crashing.

[aruvqan]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no. And you have been scheduling your work around your bridal plans, and not the other way around, as most workplaces would expect. Your boss has done you the favor of allowing this. I'm guessing she expects an invite in exchange.

.

Actually, certain bridal things have to be scheduled around *them* not work ... dress fittings, and meetings with the various suppliers are done on *their* scheduled availability. Very few things are done in the evenings - when I was helping my friend Tara deal with her wedding, we kept trying to get things done after work but even though we were scheduling appointments a year out from the wedding, the various vendors were already booked for evening appointments literally up until the proposed date. The only exception was the private seamstress to do the gown alterations, the one from the store selling the dress was booked solid for 3 months. Of course, this is in Connecticut, and as a relatively small state, stuff gets busy or booked fast, esspecially wedding venues and vendors.

[MsWhatsit]

Actually, it is how etiquette works, for weddings and other occasions. You do not bring invitations into a workplace unless you plan to invite your co-workers. You do not discuss a part in front of someone unless you intend to invite them. You can look it up in Miss Manner or Emily Post or wherever else.


Working on the invitations during your lunch break may be a breach of etiquette, but the fact that remains that working on the invitations during your lunch break is in no way, shape, or form the same as inviting everyone at work to your wedding, and I still firmly maintain that if the boss thinks that, she's an idiot.

[Maus Magill]

I wouldn't even go that far. I rescind my former suggestion and would just say. "I'm sorry that we can't invite everyone. I know how much you want to go."

She obviously doesn't wish she could have her there.

Just practice the words, "It's a small, private wedding."

Your boss sounds like a real winner. Just make sure you document the inevitable retaliation.

[PuddingCat]

The last thing you want is a messy confrontation with your boss, either at work or at your wedding. These things need to be handled discreetly and with great tact.

Thus, you should hire a drifter to kill her.

This is the way to fix it all. Not only do you fix your immediate problem, if you're lucky you'll get a TV show you can tape and watch again in the future along with your wedding videos. It's a win-win!

I hope it all gets sorted out (and it may have done by the time I read page 2 :D) and that you have a great time!

t.

[badbadrubberpiggy]

Words of wisdom. Suck it up and invite her.

Beadalin and others are right- HR is not your friend. Do not involve them.

Losing your job is a horrible way to start married life, and just having your boss make your every working day miserable is worse. Unless you already have started another job, just invite her. She will not "ruin your wedding day" unless you let her.

DO get your resumes posted, however. Maybe you'll get lucky.

The OP has already said several times she already has one foot out the door of this place, so inviting just to keep her job is actually not very useful to her, as she's neither planning nor desiring to keep this job.

[salinqmind]

[QUOTE=Oakminster;11864287]You're making this way too complicated. Next time she mentions it, smile and say "GREAT!" and then tell her about how in your family, there is a centuries old tradition of wedding guests getting naked and riding goats. You'll need to rent a goat and tie it on the lawn outside the reception hall. Even if she thinks you're joking, when she gets there and sees the goat, she'll just keep right on driving.

Keep right on driving??? No Way! Hell, I'd pay a week's salary to see THAT! I'm going in!

[Serenata67]

Serenata67 needs to set up a web feed so we can sit around the pc with popcorn and take online bets . . .

The last thing you want is a messy confrontation with your boss, either at work or at your wedding. These things need to be handled discreetly and with great tact.

Thus, you should hire a drifter to kill her.

You guys are too much! Thanks for making me laugh about the whole thing. I'm hoping nothing bad goes down. However, she knows I'm not happy with her and the work situation, so she's been sickeningly nice to me lately. She says stuff like "we should be friends" and "if you need any help with your wedding, I can lend a hand" and the like. I always politely dismiss her. I think she's just trying to get on my good side so she doesn't get into any more trouble. She doesn't realize she's doing nothing but smother, bother, and in a way continue to harass me (harassing me to be friends). I don't trust her further than I can throw her.

That's why I'll have my rather imposing brother throw her out. He could probably throw her... :D

[Serenata67]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no. And you have been scheduling your work around your bridal plans, and not the other way around, as most workplaces would expect. Your boss has done you the favor of allowing this. I'm guessing she expects an invite in exchange.

Actually, you both sound rude and entitled to me. Too late to fix that now. But you need to consider what the ramifications will be to you if you do "toss her out on her ass" should she try to crash your wedding. Do you really think your boss will just let that pass by? Compared to the hell she can put you through at work, you might consider letting her attend just for the peace of mind. Try being gracious about it and not only will it save you trouble at work, but you might feel good about yourself for having taken the high road.

I didn't flaunt them. I was sitting by myself in the break room addressing them.

I have actually scheduled all but one of my wedding related appointments around work, not work around that. My I usually work 8-6:30 and my salon is only open til 6. I had to make ONE appointment that I needed off for. That and I needed to take time off to actually get married. That's not rude; it's necessary.

[Serenata67]

May I further add...

I also said that I avoid wedding talk if at all possible. I never bring it up and if someone else does, I quickly dismiss it. I'm not flaunting my wedding.

As far as scheduling appointments around work or vice a versa, all of my appointments but that one have been scheduled around my work schedule. Everything else (fittings, musician consultations, floral planning, church preparations, etc.) have all been done outside of work and I have worked around the schedule given to me. Actually, more than once in the past couple months when I've been trying to do this, my boss has changed the schedule last minute and I've had to cancel appointments I made. She would give us a schedule, I'd make appointments around it, then she'd change it. I've probably had to reschedule about a dozen appointments in the past two months at least. The one I asked her to let me go early for is one I cannot miss or else I have to pay for the salon services I don't receive. And we're tight on the budget as it is.

The only other time I asked off for was the few days before my actual wedding and for my honeymoon. I think I can rightfully ask for that off without being in breech of etiquette.

[tdn]

You brought the invitations to work and flaunted them in front of people who would not be invited--a big etiquette no-no.

I guess I missed that page of the etiquitte handbook. Addressing envelopes is the same as flaunting them?

[Pray for peace]

I agree with those who have said not to involve HR in this. It's possible that your boss is talking about crashing your wedding, or needling you for an invitation, just to upset you (to be mean) with no intention of actually showing up. I hope that's the case. I don't know how large your workplace is and what the politics are, but if you can find a way to ask to your other co-workers not to bring up the topic of the wedding, your boss will have that many fewer opportunities to mention it to you.

[tdn]

For those of you saying not to go to HR about this -- where would you go? It seems that your experience of HR is different than mine, but then it occurred to me -- I never really went to HR other than to straighten out payroll or benefits issues.

So if HR is the wrong place to go, who would you bring, say, a sexual harassment issue to? If you say your boss's boss, what if the harassment comes right from the top?

[Boyo Jim]

For those of you saying not to go to HR about this -- where would you go? ...

You go nowhere. This is a personal issue. WTF do you want, an agency that enforces etiquette?

[melodyharmonius]

For those of you saying not to go to HR about this -- where would you go? It seems that your experience of HR is different than mine, but then it occurred to me -- I never really went to HR other than to straighten out payroll or benefits issues.

So if HR is the wrong place to go, who would you bring, say, a sexual harassment issue to? If you say your boss's boss, what if the harassment comes right from the top?

Unfortunately, in this day and age, the right time to go to HR about a sexual harassment issue is after you've consulted a lawyer.

Companies have got to CYA in this incidents, so you want to make sure you have your facts very straight, your documentation in order, and that you've followed all the proper steps and procedures.

Even if your company has a "zero tolerance" policy (as most do) - you need to make sure that they are clear on what has happened and what you expect done.

And you need to put it in writing, so it doesn't get "misinterpreted" later.

[Serenata67]

I'm going to keep playing down the wedding at work. I only have about 5 weeks to go and I'm going to do everything I can to keep it from becoming a topic of discussion.

If she asks, I'll keep reminding her the guest list is set.

And as far as "bouncers," my brother and sister are on the lookout to make sure no one without a place card is there; the only person I'm concerned about, though, is my boss. If she asks them, their story will be "we're removing anyone who wasn't invited." not "we're removing you, you stupid, evil woman."

[tdn]

You go nowhere. This is a personal issue. WTF do you want, an agency that enforces etiquette?

No, but to me this seems like it could be a harassment issue as much as one of etiquitte.

[melodyharmonius]

Serenata67, have a WONDERFUL wedding.

I know you didn't ask, but I'm a pushy SOB so I am going to share the 5 things I learned for my wedding that got me through:

1) Have a binder. Keep every piece of paper in that binder - swatches of fabrics, copies of menus, receipts, contact info, the marriage licenses, the hall and church measurements, print outs of the readings, copies of the invitations, directions to the locations, contracts for the band & caterers, etc. GUARD IT WITH YOUR LIFE.

2) Get 2 boxes and label them "church" and "reception" and start putting in all the little stuff that needs to be taken to each place (ring pillows, candles, table place cards, etc.)

3) If possible, do your rehearsal 2 nights before the wedding. That way you have 1 day between the rehearsal and the wedding to fix anything that pops up.

4) Have a neutral 3rd party run the rehearsal. They should not be related and should be very confident and commanding. Your groom and you should sit down and go over with them in detail about what you want the ceremony to be like. Then when friends, family members and suspect individuals try to tell you what to do, you just direct them to the rehearsal director. At your rehearsal, you just want to be one of the party and NOT dealing with the stress and drama. It's well worth the $50-100 gratuity you hand them.

5) The day of your wedding, don't wear a watch and don't let anyone tell you what time it is. Put a bridesmaid or maid of honor in charge of guiding you from place to place at the appropriate time. Just float along on your big day and enjoy.

As long as you are there and he is there, that's all that matters. The day is about your friends and family getting to see you 2 get married. Anything else that happens just makes for good stories afterwards.

Congratulations!

[appleciders]

Give her the invitation that she wants. Just give her directions to some local place that is known for doing wedding receptions, preferably across town from where you will actually be. If she calls you out on it later, just claim it was a typo/printing error.

East Oakridge street? Oh, I meant West Oakhill street!


As a last resort, bribe one of the kids attending...a young boy would be best...to "accidentally" spill something all over her so she'll leave...but not before you get some stealth pics for later amusements.

It's unconscionable to ask a child to do this. What, we should teach children that it's OK to spill drinks on people you don't like? This is a horrible thing for children to be exposed to.

Have a drunken groomsman do it. That way, you can have him spill a full free beer instead of a small Coke. ;)

[Oakminster]

It's unconscionable to ask a child to do this. What, we should teach children that it's OK to spill drinks on people you don't like? This is a horrible thing for children to be exposed to.

Have a drunken groomsman do it. That way, you can have him spill a full free beer instead of a small Coke. ;)

Wasting beer? That's gotta be worse than using a child...
:D

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Wasting beer? That's gotta be worse than using a child...
:DWine stains are tougher to get out of clothing anyway.

ETA: Hey, couldn't you just say you're part of some bizarro religion and that guests have to wear rubber boots to the party because that's when you kill the chickens and all the guts on the floor are slippery?

Then tell security if anyone shows up wearing boots....

[Harmonious Discord]

At the reception:

All right folks we're going to do some of the dance events right now. Were going to have the people divide up for the first event. I need the bride and groom up here by me. The rest of the wedding party here. The parents and siblings of the couple here. Now were going to need some special people that have been chosen by these people to stand over here by this handsome strapping young man. You, you and you come on over. Thank you. Now if you could follow our strapping young man out the door it would be appreciated so as we can get back to the party you crashed and are interrupting.

[Harmonious Discord]

I wanted to add this story link.

Bride spray painted. (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091202/national/crime_painted_bride)

Only you know how much of a nut job your boss is.

[Q.N. Jones]

I didn't flaunt them. I was sitting by myself in the break room addressing them.

Same diff. You don't let people see invitations to parties they aren't invited to. I don't make the rules. You want to break them, oh well. No big deal to me. I was just trying to explain to you why some people might think you'd behaved badly or given the impression they'd be getting invitations.

I have actually scheduled all but one of my wedding related appointments around work, not work around that. My I usually work 8-6:30 and my salon is only open til 6. I had to make ONE appointment that I needed off for. That and I needed to take time off to actually get married. That's not rude; it's necessary.

Look, I don't really care. I offered an opinion based on how you previously stated things. I can't know anything more than what you have said in these threads. You made it sound like you asked for time off of work multiple times for wedding planning. You don't need to be so defensive. If you think I'm off-base, just ignore me.

[Cat Whisperer]

You go nowhere. This is a personal issue. WTF do you want, an agency that enforces etiquette?
That would be AWESOME!!!1!!!1!!1111
We totally need this.

[handsomeharry]

I was going to suggest, in the interest of your job, that you pass of the blame in the form of overbearing parents or parents-in-law who are funding the wedding and insist on planing everything, including invites... but those who suggested simple refusals are probably right. Then pretend you have something important to do.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Do NOT come straight out with it. This straight talk stuff only works in novels and movies where men are being sensitive. Blame everybody else. Your boss can't retaliate against them, and she cannot fire them for being a disruptive influence. It is much easier to be fired than it is to keep your job. Believe me. Those who suggested simple refusals, I suspect, have skills that are quite marketable, or other arrangements can be made, job-wise. If you, also, fit this category, go ahead with the direct method, then get ready to quit or to be fired.
Having said that, I think that the boss is trying to pull your leg a bit, so you don't need to come right out and say 'Don't come." Could be wrong, tho.

Good Luck,

hh

[Cat Fight]

I didn't mean 'refusals' so much as brush-offs and denial ('Ha ha, yeah, small wedding. Oh my phone;s ringing!' rather than 'You are not invited and will be ejected from the premises if you come'). I completely agree that telling people the truth that are not family or loved ones is often an advice columnist fantasy.

[aruvqan]

Same diff. You don't let people see invitations to parties they aren't invited to. I don't make the rules. You want to break them, oh well. No big deal to me. I was just trying to explain to you why some people might think you'd behaved badly or given the impression they'd be getting invitations.

.

You know, I have seen people at previous jobs sitting in the break room with fans of several invitations with their friends at their table looking over the invites and trying to decide which ones they like best, I have seen people writing out and addressing invitations, I have even helped address invitations and never once assumed that I would be invited. Well, actually I did volunteer to help address them because i did a stint of playing with calligraphy and I have a very nice hand [if I may blow my own horn]. I have even helped stamp/embellish cards for people with no belief in my being invited to whatever function.

If someone is off in a corner addressing cards, and I am bored out of my skull I will ask if there is anything I can help with ... and I never assume that because I volunteered to help someone that they are beholden to me for anything. I am just being nice adn doing something to stop being bored.

Do not assume that your accustomed rule about never displaying invites is universal ... if you are friends with people in the work place, it is natural to discuss *your* personal parties with your friends, and people not in your little circle of friends do not assume that they are involved in whatever your circle of buddies is discussing.

[Q.N. Jones]

Do not assume that your accustomed rule about never displaying invites is universal ... if you are friends with people in the work place, it is natural to discuss *your* personal parties with your friends, and people not in your little circle of friends do not assume that they are involved in whatever your circle of buddies is discussing.

Are you lecturing me? If so, you should try reading my last post again. I'm pretty live-and-let-live, myself. I don't assume. I realize most people are rude and clueless about etiquette, and I don't want to go to their weddings or parties anyway. I'm not saying that I personally see the OP's actions as a reason to expect an invite.

But that etiquette rule is well-known enough that it's safe to assume in a large workplace, someone is going to get offended (or assume they're invited) if you violate it. I was just trying to explain to the OP why the people she's having problems with might have made the assumption they would be invited. Getting defensive and trying to convince me I'm wrong is missing the point.

[MsWhatsit]

I'm pretty live-and-let-live, myself.

Yeah, that really comes across from your posts in this thread.

[Bridget Burke]

Are you lecturing me? If so, you should try reading my last post again. I'm pretty live-and-let-live, myself. I don't assume. I realize most people are rude and clueless about etiquette, and I don't want to go to their weddings or parties anyway. I'm not saying that I personally see the OP's actions as a reason to expect an invite.

But that etiquette rule is well-known enough that it's safe to assume in a large workplace, someone is going to get offended (or assume they're invited) if you violate it. I was just trying to explain to the OP why the people she's having problems with might have made the assumption they would be invited. Getting defensive and trying to convince me I'm wrong is missing the point.

It's worse when some in the workplace are invited & others aren't. I spent several months listening to the chick in the next cubicle arrange her big & festive wedding over the phone. Some employees were invited but I was not. I wasn't in her "work group"--it wasn't really personal. But it was very distracting--with no payoff for me.

Guess the OP never had any evening or weekend time free to to the addressing. The boss is a piece of work, but the less work time (even on break) devoted to the wedding, the better.

[tdn]

Are you lecturing me?

I think you're the one getting defensive.

You say it's a universally known rule of etiquette. Well, many of us here have never heard of that rule.

[Elysian]

There's only one thing I would add to this...

The next time your boss says "I'm going to crash your wedding if you don't invite me, haha!" joke back with her, only be serious.

"If anyone crashes my party they're going to be escorted out by my brother! He's really going to love embarrassing the hell out of them! And all my guests will point and laugh at them! And I'll keep the presents anyway, haha!"

The way I see it, you really want to nip this in the bud before she gets in her car to drive to the wedding. By phrasing it as a joke, you can take advantage of the same things she is (I didn't really mean it, I was just kidding around, I wouldn't actually attend -- I didn't mean it, I was joking, I'd probably return the present). It's give her a really clear idea of the consequences of her actions and hopefully scare her away from attending.

I hope you love your wedding and good wishes for your marriage.

[Labrador Deceiver]

I think you're the one getting defensive.

You say it's a universally known rule of etiquette. Well, many of us here have never heard of that rule.

Maybe not worded so specifically, but I would have guessed that just about everyone knew that it was rude to flaunt party invitations in front of a group of people who aren't on the invite list.

Not to say that excuses the bosses behavior at all.

[handsomeharry]

Are you lecturing me? If so, you should try reading my last post again. I'm pretty live-and-let-live, myself. I don't assume. I realize most people are rude and clueless about etiquette, and I don't want to go to their weddings or parties anyway. I'm not saying that I personally see the OP's actions as a reason to expect an invite.

But that etiquette rule is well-known enough that it's safe to assume in a large workplace, someone is going to get offended (or assume they're invited) if you violate it. I was just trying to explain to the OP why the people she's having problems with might have made the assumption they would be invited. Getting defensive and trying to convince me I'm wrong is missing the point.

QN JONES is correct, and I think that it's wrong for those whose noses are getting out of joint at what QNJ is writing. Sure, as a technical rule, you could probably get a cease and desist order against anybody that even speaks and looks at you at work, so what's your problem? Head to the courthouse, and get to it.
It is a matter of good manners, social responsibility, etc... that is being addressed. If you want to keep the boss away, say "I don't want you at my wedding!" She will go to jail if she shows up. Problem solved. But, obviously, there is a matter of doing things in a polite way, and that is what QNJ is addressing. Politeness, manners, social interactions. First of all, is there no room at home to address invitations? One can only do it at work? Break, shmeak, it was at work! It may not be evil to do this at work, but it is certainly ham-handed, and one should expect somebody to get the wrong idea. Even I can remember the old kindergarten maxim, that if you don't bring enough to share with everybody, don't bring any. Something like that.


Best wishes,
hh

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

You say it's a universally known rule of etiquette. Well, many of us here have never heard of that rule.It is a well-known etiquette rule. That's why so many schools these days won't let kids bring birthday party invitations to school unless the whole class is invited. I'm actually surprised that so many people here don't seem to know this one.

[tdn]

It is a well-known etiquette rule. That's why so many schools these days won't let kids bring birthday party invitations to school unless the whole class is invited. I'm actually surprised that so many people here don't seem to know this one.

In the school situation you describe, I can totally understand and get behind it. But this isn't quite the same situation. For one thing, she wasn't inviting some coworkers and not others. For another these are adults (boss excluded) who should be mature enough to know that they won't get invited to every event. Lastly -- was she flaunting? I guess that's a matter of degree and/or opinion. But if one of my coworkers, say, brought in cookies to share with a certain population of the office, like the surgeons or the nurses, I won't get bent out of shape if I don't get to have one.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

In the school situation you describe, I can totally understand and get behind it. But this isn't quite the same situation. For one thing, she wasn't inviting some coworkers and not others. For another these are adults (boss excluded) who should be mature enough to know that they won't get invited to every event. Lastly -- was she flaunting? I guess that's a matter of degree and/or opinion. But if one of my coworkers, say, brought in cookies to share with a certain population of the office, like the surgeons or the nurses, I won't get bent out of shape if I don't get to have one.:: shrug :: Whatever. I was taught never to have invitations around where non-invited people would see them. I was told it's generally not nice to let people know (deliberately or otherwise) that you're hosting an event and they aren't invited.

I don't think "flaunting" was the right choice of words from Jones, but both my fiancee and I were taught that it's bad form to mess around with our invites in public where there is a risk that someone may see them and feel snubbed.

Different upbringings, I guess.

[tdn]

OK, put in that way, I can sort of agree. I just think that on the scale of offensiveness, it ranks pretty low. Personally, if one of my coworkers was addressing wedding invitations at work, I wouldn't feel snubbed at all. But I'm pretty meh about weddings.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

OK, put in that way, I can sort of agree. I just think that on the scale of offensiveness, it ranks pretty low. Personally, if one of my coworkers was addressing wedding invitations at work, I wouldn't feel snubbed at all. But I'm pretty meh about weddings.Yeah, me too. That's the weird thing. I probably wouldn't give a rat's ass if a co-worker was having a party and I wasn't invited, but at the same time, I'd be mortified if I made someone else feel snubbed because they found out I was having a shindig without them.

[Cat Whisperer]

Another vote that Q.N.'s etiquette rule is indeed well-known. Thinking back to my wedding, I had just started a job at a new place, so I had discussed my time off for the wedding right when I was being hired, but of course no one from the new job would be invited, and I kept my plans strictly away from them. Working on invitations in front of people who would not be invited - I just wouldn't do that.

[panache45]

. . . we had wedding crashers! One woman neither of us had ever met and she wasn't even introduced to us! They wore jeans and uggs!!! They didn't even give us a card, or sign the card of someone else! They complained about the food and where we were able to seat them! I mean it was quite farcical! They were buffoons! Born in a barn! Emily Post would spin in her grave!

My parents were married during the Depression, when a lot of people literally didn't have food on their tables. My grandfather was a baker and caterer, so there were tons of food and several huge cakes. People were climbing in the windows to steal food, and there was a couple who were caught carrying out a four-foot cake. Finally my grandfather just opened the doors and let everyone in. They wound up feeding the entire neighborhood, and then some.

[Duckster]

If you haven't yet started documenting all interactions with your boss (professional, personal, wedding bell blues), you need to start now. No, it's not about the wedding. It will be about your termination from your job for not being a team player, or some other excuse. You will need all the documentation to prove your case. Your boss has some serious problems and she'll will be damned to allow anyone who works for her get the best of her, wedding or otherwise.

[Chimera]

:: shrug :: Whatever. I was taught never to have invitations around where non-invited people would see them. I was told it's generally not nice to let people know (deliberately or otherwise) that you're hosting an event and they aren't invited.

One of the biggest things that used to bug the shit out of me from the clique I used to be a peripheral member of, and carries forward to other groups to this day.

Don't get together with a group of people and then invite only a small number of them to another event. Or talk about that event in front of non-invitees, past or future.

It is incredibly rude when there are 10 people in the room and six of them are planning a small dinner the next week and not inviting the other four. Or on the other end of it, talking excitedly about the small dinner that just the six of them had the week before. FUCK OFF ALREADY. You didn't invite me, I don't want to hear about how it great it was. Now is not the time for you to go on about it, in the company of people you chose not to invite.


Wedding invites? Slightly less so. If I was the boss, I'd be making damned sure that she wasn't spending COMPANY time doing the invites. But other than that, I do agree with the OP in that the boss has no right to invite herself.

[Hokkaido Brit]

I think your boss sounds like an utterly unpleasant woman, and I think, like some other posters, that she is not really planning to come to your wedding but she is thoroughly enjoying the misery she's putting you through teasing about it.

I agree, assign your brother as bouncer and don't let her attend should she show up. You sound like you are not going to be in that job much longer anyway and you don't want her in your wedding photos forever more.

[Guinastasia]

One of the biggest things that used to bug the shit out of me from the clique I used to be a peripheral member of, and carries forward to other groups to this day.

Don't get together with a group of people and then invite only a small number of them to another event. Or talk about that event in front of non-invitees, past or future.


According to the OP, she's not inviting ANYONE from work.

[Serenata67]

According to the OP, she's not inviting ANYONE from work.

Exactly. I'm not inviting anyone and my boss is the only person who has a beef with it. I was assigned to that branch only a few months back and haven't forged any close relationships with anyone there. The all know that and they are all cool. Some of the other girls think it's weird and inappropriate the way she's acting. They all understand, but aren't willing to stand up to her.

I'm not trying to exclude some people and include others; I'm not including any of them.

[Chimera]

Then I can only suggest that you stop bringing in Wedding related items to your place of work, stop making personal calls about the wedding from your place of work and stop discussing the wedding with anyone at your place of work.

Get the message there?

[MsWhatsit]

From the OP:

I'm under the "don't talk unless specifically asked" rule. I know I'm not going to invite them. I'm not going around spilling my guts about my cake just 'cause I'm excited. I mean, if someone asks me, "Are you getting excited about the wedding?" or "How are the plans going?" I provide a short but polite answer, like "I'm really excited. It'll be beautiful." or "The plans are going pretty well. Still have a lot to do though." and I leave it at that.

[tdn]

Then I can only suggest that you stop bringing in Wedding related items to your place of work, stop making personal calls about the wedding from your place of work and stop discussing the wedding with anyone at your place of work.

I'm not sure I get the no phone calls thing. If a friend calls me at work to discuss our plans to get together that night, am I obligated to invite all of my coworkers?

[muldoonthief]

One of the biggest things that used to bug the shit out of me from the clique I used to be a peripheral member of, and carries forward to other groups to this day.

Don't get together with a group of people and then invite only a small number of them to another event. Or talk about that event in front of non-invitees, past or future.

It is incredibly rude when there are 10 people in the room and six of them are planning a small dinner the next week and not inviting the other four. Or on the other end of it, talking excitedly about the small dinner that just the six of them had the week before. FUCK OFF ALREADY. You didn't invite me, I don't want to hear about how it great it was. Now is not the time for you to go on about it, in the company of people you chose not to invite.

Wedding invites? Slightly less so. If I was the boss, I'd be making damned sure that she wasn't spending COMPANY time doing the invites. But other than that, I do agree with the OP in that the boss has no right to invite herself.

How big does the disparity in group sizes have to be before it's OK to discuss such things? If I'm at a party of 40 people, can I discuss the ski trip that my wife and I and another couple at the party took two weeks previously? Will the other 36 people be offended then?

Sounds like you may suffer from Geek Social Fallacy (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html) 1 or 5.

[YogSosoth]

I'm not sure if anyone's said this (only read the OP) but couldn't you just tell her it was canceled? Wait until the last minute when all your appointments are done and then say you caught him cheating or something, or somebody's family had a death and the wedding's canceled.

[Serenata67]

I'm not sure if anyone's said this (only read the OP) but couldn't you just tell her it was canceled? Wait until the last minute when all your appointments are done and then say you caught him cheating or something, or somebody's family had a death and the wedding's canceled.

While that sounds fun, I'm still planning on changing my name, etc. She'd realize I lied to her... and it wouldn't be pretty.

I don't take any personal calls at work, I don't discuss stuff at work and I'm not bringing anything into work anymore. After she saw the invitations that one day (the only day I brought anything to work) and it made everything worse, I haven't brought anything else.

The thing is, no one else in my office is offended by me bringing the invites to work that once. No one is offended that they're not invited. And I work at a pretty large branch. And I'm not sure she's even offended, just pushy. She wants free booze and food and a reason to get away from her little brats (she calls them that!) for a night.

I'm just going to hold firm that she's not invited. I'll be polite, but not encouraging.

[Eats_Crayons]

I'm not sure if anyone's said this (only read the OP) but couldn't you just tell her it was canceled? Wait until the last minute when all your appointments are done and then say you caught him cheating or something, or somebody's family had a death and the wedding's canceled.
That would make it a touch hard to explain why she still needs to keep the time off for the wedding and honeymoon.

[Aankh]

I have no idea how secure the OP's job is , but if her boss has already been making life hell for her in general, she needs to be very, very careful. There's nothing like a petty boss with a vendetta to make life miserable. Getting a good referral when you leave this job also hinges on keeping the twit happy. It's not something you want to deal with in the first few months after your wedding. So, on that note...

(1) HR is never your friend. Not unless you have extremely well-documented and corroborated instances of mistreatment. And even then they're not your friend. It's just that in such a situation they cannot not support you.

(2) I would give an invite to the boss. It's 20 bucks and a shitload of cheap diplomacy.

(3) If, on a principle, you still wish not to invite the boss, I would absolutely not not NOT get security to escort her out if she crashes the wedding anyway. That will put you on the shit-list even more so than her not getting an invite. Public humiliation is not something that petty types will forgive.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I think choosing your battles makes life go a lot more smoothly.

[Chimera]

How big does the disparity in group sizes have to be before it's OK to discuss such things? If I'm at a party of 40 people, can I discuss the ski trip that my wife and I and another couple at the party took two weeks previously? Will the other 36 people be offended then?

Sounds like you may suffer from Geek Social Fallacy (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html) 1 or 5.

Sorry, no. Big party, I'm happy to hear about your plans, or your past trips. No, I don't need to be invited.

Take a look again at the example I gave. Ten people in the room, inviting six of them to another event. Snubbing the other four. Or like another occasion with another group: six person group get-together cancelled, a week later we find that four of them (including the person who cancelled the whole thing) got together anyway. Then the four decided to tell the two of us who got dropped how much fun they had that night. Not Cool. Dick Move.

[Kaio]

Maybe not worded so specifically, but I would have guessed that just about everyone knew that it was rude to flaunt party invitations in front of a group of people who aren't on the invite list.

Not to say that excuses the bosses behavior at all.

I agree; and for those who couldn't even intuit that talking about/showing invitations to a party to people who weren't invited, might just possibly make them feel left out or otherwise shitty, I have to say that indicates a severe lack of empathy.

Forget the formal "rule" -- the basis of courtesy is to not make others feel bad or awkward. Be considerate of their feelings, for gods sake. A sense of empathy would tell you everything you need to know in this case. Wouldn't you feel bad if someone showed you an invitation to a party and then went on to say "But you're not invited"?

[ZenBeam]

Take a look again at the example I gave. Ten people in the room, inviting six of them to another event. Snubbing the other four. Or like another occasion with another group: six person group get-together cancelled, a week later we find that four of them (including the person who cancelled the whole thing) got together anyway. Then the four decided to tell the two of us who got dropped how much fun they had that night. Not Cool. Dick Move.Yeah, well given those numbers, your example has bupkis to do with the OP, doesn't it?

[Kaio]

Also, I disagree with everyone saying to invite the boss anyway -- but also make your choice with your eyes open. She may (probably) retaliate. This retaliation may or may not include getting fired (or being made so miserable that you quit just to save your sanity).

If she does crash, and you have someone bounce her, you can have the bouncer tell her that the event is private and restricted to invited guests only. That would make it clear she's not being singled out by you, but she's in essence singling out herself by crashing in the first place (and honestly, who wouldn't bounce any and every wedding crasher? it's not like she would evict the boss and not others, it's just that it's unlikely that any others will crash). At the same time, regardless of logic, I'd expect the boss to take it personally no matter what you do, even though it isn't. She obviously thinks the universe revolves around her; the fact that any other crasher would also get bounced, if there were other crashers, would be lost on her.

Finally, I also agree with everyone that you should be documenting everything. That way, if she does retaliate, you have your own ammunition to take to HR. If you start talking to them about "hostile work environments" they'll do something, if only out of the desire to cover their own asses.

[YogSosoth]

Is she allergic to anything? Have plenty of those things at the front door.

[Cat Whisperer]

Sorry, no. Big party, I'm happy to hear about your plans, or your past trips. No, I don't need to be invited.

Take a look again at the example I gave. Ten people in the room, inviting six of them to another event. Snubbing the other four. Or like another occasion with another group: six person group get-together cancelled, a week later we find that four of them (including the person who cancelled the whole thing) got together anyway. Then the four decided to tell the two of us who got dropped how much fun they had that night. Not Cool. Dick Move.
For what it's worth, I agree with you. It sounds like some people in your social circle are (were?) clueless about how we stopped treating other people like that in grade school. Being a temp, I've had the opportunity to sample a lot of different work environments, and most of them are not cliquey, but you'll run into the odd one that feels like it's straight out of high school. When I end up in one of those, I do my damnedest to highlight their immature behaviour, by being the most inclusionary person they ever met (well, as much as a temp can, anyway).

[Lynn Bodoni]

The thing is, no one else in my office is offended by me bringing the invites to work that once. No one is offended that they're not invited. And I work at a pretty large branch. And I'm not sure she's even offended, just pushy. She wants free booze and food and a reason to get away from her little brats (she calls them that!) for a night.

Forget the formal "rule" -- the basis of courtesy is to not make others feel bad or awkward. Be considerate of their feelings, for gods sake. A sense of empathy would tell you everything you need to know in this case. Wouldn't you feel bad if someone showed you an invitation to a party and then went on to say "But you're not invited"? Here's the way I visualized it: OP brings her invitations to work, but doesn't show them around, she just wants to work on the invitations while she's on break. She does so. She assumes that being on break means that her time is her own, and that she will be left alone. Her boss, who cannot conceive of a situation where someone would not want to talk to her (boss) instead of enjoying her break, decides to stick her big nose into the OP's business...which in this case, is her wedding invitations. Boss also can't imagine why OP doesn't want to have Boss at her (small, friends only) wedding and/or reception, as Boss is always welcome wherever she goes.

IMO, the OP might have made a very tiny mistake by bringing in the invitations to occupy her during her break. However, the Boss was rude for sticking her nose into the OP's business while the OP was on break, and is now assuming that she's welcome to come to the reception. Boss either doesn't know or doesn't care that the OP doesn't want to spend ANY time with her, and that is both clueless and rude. One can get away with inviting oneself over to a casual family get together. Something that's so very formal as a wedding and reception (and the average person doesn't attend anything more formal than a wedding) is not something to just casually invite oneself to. Even if the person who is getting married commits a teensy little slip, that doesn't give anyone the right to assume that they are or that they should be invited to any part of the festivities.

[Clothahump]

I think I'll reiterate one more time, firmly but politely, that we will not be inviting any of our coworkers to anything. If she decides to crash, I will have the on-duty security guard escort her out. She will not have a place card; she will not have a seat assigned. I think I'll put my sister (my maid of honor) and my very imposing brother on lookout for her. If she shows up, they will inform the security guard and between the three of them, she will be removed and I won't have to deal with her. If she harbors ill will for being removed when she knows she's crashing, that's hers to deal with. I have one foot out the door at my employer and am looking for a way out. I'm not going to let her ruin my day.

And make sure that her being bounced gets videoed. Then if retaliation happens, it's one more arrow in your quiver.

Plus the fact that you can put it up on YouTube later for laughs.

[tdn]

Take a look again at the example I gave.

In that example, I would agree with you. But your example is not the case with the OP. If she had openly addressed invitations to half of her coworkers and not the other half, and then told everyone about it, then yeah, dick move. But that's not what happened. She was doing something personal on her own personal time. Coworkers that found out about it were cool about it. No one's feelings got hurt.

The boss didn't feel rightfully hurt and slighted because everyone else in the office but her got invited. She made the unilateral decision to crash the reception. There is a HUGE difference there.

[Serenata67]

Here's the way I visualized it: OP brings her invitations to work, but doesn't show them around, she just wants to work on the invitations while she's on break. She does so. She assumes that being on break means that her time is her own, and that she will be left alone. Her boss, who cannot conceive of a situation where someone would not want to talk to her (boss) instead of enjoying her break, decides to stick her big nose into the OP's business...which in this case, is her wedding invitations. Boss also can't imagine why OP doesn't want to have Boss at her (small, friends only) wedding and/or reception, as Boss is always welcome wherever she goes.

IMO, the OP might have made a very tiny mistake by bringing in the invitations to occupy her during her break. However, the Boss was rude for sticking her nose into the OP's business while the OP was on break, and is now assuming that she's welcome to come to the reception. Boss either doesn't know or doesn't care that the OP doesn't want to spend ANY time with her, and that is both clueless and rude. One can get away with inviting oneself over to a casual family get together. Something that's so very formal as a wedding and reception (and the average person doesn't attend anything more formal than a wedding) is not something to just casually invite oneself to. Even if the person who is getting married commits a teensy little slip, that doesn't give anyone the right to assume that they are or that they should be invited to any part of the festivities.

That's exactly how it's been going down. Thanks for the summary Lynn.

[Kaio]

Well, the addressing of the invitations at work and the boss inviting herself are two separate issues in my mind. The boss strikes me as a narcissistic maniac, and there's absolutely no excuse for her behavior. None. This is a primary reason why I don't agree with the folks saying "Just invite her anyway." The OP is not responsible for the boss's hard feelings in this case, the boss is being overly presumptive and whatever hard feelings she experiences as a result are her own fault.

At the same time, unless the OP was addressing invitations in her own private office with the door closed where she could reasonably expect no one to wander by and see the invitations by accident, she should have left that for an at home project, not something for her work environment, even if she was on break. She pretty much has no way of knowing if what she did cause any hurt feelings among her co-workers; any adult with grace wouldn't mention it if she felt left out.

[Hello Again]

I'm sorry, there is no way to not talk about an upcoming wedding. You can avoid bringing the subject up but people ask you about it CONSTANTLY -- particularly if you are a woman and they are also a woman. The only way to keep it under the radar is to never wear an engagement ring in the workplace.

And everyone knows that invites to a wedding are not at all based on who you like best or who you'd prefer to spend time with. It is a formal occasion in which family normally comes first in terms of invitation priority; in fact some weddings have very few friends of the bride and groom in attendance.

[Serenata67]

My little problem kind of solved itself: the evil boss is being demoted and transferred (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11889793#post11889793)... before the wedding! So she can't intimidate, coerce and otherwise manipulate me into inviting her! At this point, I doubt she'll show up (she doesn't have a leg to stand on), but if for some crazy reason she does, I have no problem tossing her out on her ass. She has no more power over me!

[Harmonious Discord]

My little problem kind of solved itself: the evil boss is being demoted and transferred (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11889793#post11889793)... before the wedding! So she can't intimidate, coerce and otherwise manipulate me into inviting her! At this point, I doubt she'll show up (she doesn't have a leg to stand on), but if for some crazy reason she does, I have no problem tossing her out on her ass. She has no more power over me!

It doesn't mean she won't show up. Now you can freely kick her ass out though.

[Hokkaido Brit]

Well, that is a VERY satisfactory outcome! Yeay!

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Break out the champagne! Time to celebrate!


You'll still post a video if your bouncers toss her out on her ass, right?

[Kaio]

It doesn't mean she won't show up. Now you can freely kick her ass out though.

Heck, take it an extra step farther and have her bounced and arrested for trespassing. :D

[Cat Fight]

What a great wedding gift!

[Dung Beetle]

Well, that is a VERY satisfactory outcome! Yeay!

Oh, sure, for Serenata. What about those of us who are in it for the vicarious entertainment?

Ah, well, congratulations anyway, Serenata!

[Cat Whisperer]

As I said in the other thread, yay!