Ambushed by a Christmas carol

[muldoonthief]

As mentioned in previous threads, I'm the father of 3 preteen daughters, and as such, am uncomfortable with any questions from them relating to sex, where babies come from, etc. Partly from a strict and uptight Catholic upbringing (since lapsed), and partly from the fact that they're girls. Boys, I could handle. So when such questions arise, my general strategy is to hem and haw for a second, see if my wife is around so I can pass the question off, and finally, if pressed, answer it to the best of my ability.

Last night, I was bringing all 3 girls home from school, and we were listening to Christmas music on the radio. Whenever one of them complains that they don't like a song, I generally start singing along, because that's what dads do. So there I am, singing along to "Silent Night", not even thinking about the lyrics, when my oldest (9), loudly asks "Dad, what's a virgin?" Bushwhacked! Now, if I had been thinking straight, I would have just answered "A person who has never had sex with another person." But instead, I panicked, and told her about some people believing that Jesus was the son of God, and Christmas celebrates his birth, and that's what the song is about. She listened to my explanation carefully, then said, "OK, but what's a virgin?" I then realized I had sabotaged myself - if after explaining that Mary was Jesus's mother, I then told her a virgin has never had sex, I'd be totally confusing her - she knows that you have to have sex to have a baby. So I told her I'd explain it to her later. To which she replied "Why - you don't want the other two to know what it is?" Her sisters (7 & 5) had been ignoring us to this point, but their ears are keenly attuned to anything indicating they're being left out of something, so they both started clamoring "We want to know too! Tell us! Tell us! What's a virgin!" Now I was really stuck - the youngest hasn't gotten any sex ed beyond "you need a mommy and a daddy to make a baby" yet, and yelling the explanation to the back seat of the minivan while driving at night didn't seem the best way to have that talk. But luckily, the radio came to my rescue at just that moment - "Feliz Navidad", our favorite Christmas singalong song started up. So I was able to make it home safely, at which point I could distract them with homework and getting ready for gymnastics, and finally, pass the question on to my wife to answer (none of this bothers her) like the coward I am.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

You should really post this to José Feliciano's fan site, so he knows he's saved a life.

9, 7, & 5 is going to be 17, 15, & 13 in a mighty short time. May I suggest you start by discussing sex with your wife for practice?

[Olentzero]

May I suggest you start by discussing sex with your wife for practice?I kinda think those two are well beyond that stage, Grandma. :D

[Hilarity N. Suze]

Tell them it's a word for a young woman.

At least they're hearing it right and not as "round john virgin" which was how I always heard it and think of it, even to this day.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Tell them it's a word for a young woman.

At least they're hearing it right and not as "round john virgin" which was how I always heard it and think of it, even to this day.

You reminded me of a Christmas special we just watched - Olive the Other Reindeer. There is a character in it named Round John Virgin, and another named Richard Stands (points for guessing where his name comes from)

[Olentzero]

He's the president of Toothy Republic.

[BigT]

Tell them it's a word for a young woman.

Well, if it was good enough for Isaiah, it's good enough for your kids.

[Count Blucher]

You should really post this to José Feliciano's fan site, so he knows he's saved a life.

...And possibly thank him for wanting "to wish you a Me-eeerry Christmas...!" :D

[EvilTOJ]

I can always see better by the light of the Dawnser Lee.

I thought this thread was going to be about a driveby caroling of some kind. Hemming and hawing about the sex talk is a surefire way to make them REALLY interested in it. If you'd gone with "Someone who's never had sex" or "your uncle Ron" like you'd answered the question a million times it wouldn't come up again.

[dhkendall]

9, 7, & 5 is going to be 17, 15, & 13 in a mighty short time. May I suggest you start by discussing sex with your wife for practice?

I don't know, discussing sex with your wife, even if it's just "for practice" would pretty much lead to a new baby in nine months, and detract things further from the "this is what a virgin is" talk.

[legalsnugs]

I can always see better by the light of the Dawnser Lee....

I see better by the donzerly light. :D

[Ellen Cherry]

I see better by the donzerly light. :D

This was in some book I read as a kid and I can't remember which one. A character thought "donzer" was another word for "lamp."

"I turned on the donzer."
"You turned on the WHAT?!"
"The donzer. You know, it gives lee light."

[Yllaria]

This was in some book I read as a kid and I can't remember which one. A character thought "donzer" was another word for "lamp."

"I turned on the donzer."
"You turned on the WHAT?!"
"The donzer. You know, it gives lee light."

That was in one of the Ramona books by Beverly Cleary.

[Johnny L.A.]

I've always thought there should be a point of land called Donzerly Point. It would have a lighthouse, which would be the Donzerly Light.

[TruCelt]

Seriously, you've got to be able to talk with them about this. They need the input of a male they can trust. Remember, what they can't learn by talking, they'll learn by doing.

this might help: http://www.4parents.gov/

[The Devil's Grandmother]

I kinda think those two are well beyond that stage, Grandma. :D

Well, yes. Three kids in six years is pretty good. But being able to talk calmly about sex is a very different skill from making whoopie.

For a dad who got rattled over the word "virgin", I suspect words like "intercourse" and "contraception" are going to take some practice. Time is now, muldoonthief.

[BigNik]

Seriously, you've got to be able to talk with them about this. They need the input of a male they can trust. Remember, what they can't learn by talking, they'll learn by doing.

this might help: http://www.4parents.gov/
They'll learn virginity by doing it?

Yeah... I guess that makes sense...

[muldoonthief]

Seriously, you've got to be able to talk with them about this. They need the input of a male they can trust. Remember, what they can't learn by talking, they'll learn by doing.

this might help: http://www.4parents.gov/

Well, yes. Three kids in six years is pretty good. But being able to talk calmly about sex is a very different skill from making whoopie.

For a dad who got rattled over the word "virgin", I suspect words like "intercourse" and "contraception" are going to take some practice. Time is now, muldoonthief.

I do talk about it with them when necessary. Just because I'm embarrassed and uncomfortable doesn't mean I won't do it. It was the whole Christmas carol leading to questions that had me in a tizzy. Of course, I'm still dreading the moment during a football game when I'm asked "Daddy, what's an erection, and have you ever had one lasting more than 4 hours?"

[Lynn Bodoni]

So I told her I'd explain it to her later. To which she replied "Why - you don't want the other two to know what it is?" Her sisters (7 & 5) had been ignoring us to this point, but their ears are keenly attuned to anything indicating they're being left out of something, so they both started clamoring "We want to know too! Tell us! Tell us! What's a virgin!" You have indeed figured out how to get the attention of kids. Just let them know that their ears are too young and tender for what you want to talk about. They will hang onto every word.

I do talk about it with them when necessary. Just because I'm embarrassed and uncomfortable doesn't mean I won't do it. It was the whole Christmas carol leading to questions that had me in a tizzy. Of course, I'm still dreading the moment during a football game when I'm asked "Daddy, what's an erection, and have you ever had one lasting more than 4 hours?" Well, have you? :D

My daughter does not even want to THINK about the fact that she is the result of a sexual act that her daddy and I shared. She would vastly prefer to know absolutely nothing about our sex lives, whether it's with each other or other parties.

[Baker]

I first read about intercourse in one of those "health sciences" books in school. Once my brain got done spinning when I visualized what was being described, my next thought was "but that means.........I mean.......my parents......EWWWWWWWW!"

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

You aren't using all the Dad superpowers. Try boredom through overexplanation :

"Dad, what's a virgin? "

" A virgin is someone who has never had sex. The term can also be used to describe anything that is clean or unstained, or something that has never been used. For example, virgin white snow is snow no one has walked in, while a virgin wilderness is an area where no one has explored, and a virgin forest would have had no logging. What do you think extra virgin olive oil means? "

"Um.....the olives aren't picked?"

"no, try again"

" The olives were from a forest that hadn't been logged? "

"Good thought, but it turns out to mean that its the first olive oil that comes out of the olive press, the olive squashing machine. Funny thing about olives, you can't just eat them off the tree..."

Conversation wanders off to horticulture. It's helpful to take a deep breath at the beginning, so that there are no pauses.

[Anaamika]

Just answer the questions asked, and shut up. Then if they have more, they'll ask.

"Daddy, what's a virgin?"

"Someone who hasn't had sex yet."

"Daddy, what's sex?"

Etc.

Half of the time parents over explain when the kids just wanted a simple answer.

[Cat Whisperer]

Sorry, dude, but I don't think the questions are going to get any *easier* than that one. Maybe you should look for a book for dads on how to talk to daughters about sex - I'm sure there is one.

[The Devil's Grandmother]

I do talk about it with them when necessary. Just because I'm embarrassed and uncomfortable doesn't mean I won't do it. It was the whole Christmas carol leading to questions that had me in a tizzy. Of course, I'm still dreading the moment during a football game when I'm asked "Daddy, what's an erection, and have you ever had one lasting more than 4 hours?"
Good on ya for manning up and doing what needs to be done. And I totally understand. My neices and nephews know I'll answer any question, and seem to get major amusement out of the many shades of red I can get when embarressed.

[Oakminster]

Wait until you get to explain that Johnny isn't marching home for the local PRIDE parade.....


Assuming that school kids still sing When Johnny Comes Marching Home, as we did when I was that age.

[Gesturing Mildly]

Hehe. I asked my mom the same question, inspired by some sort of Christmas goings-on. Her reply told me all she ever wanted me to know:

"A woman who isn't married."

[freckafree]

I can always see better by the light of the Dawnser Lee.

I personally prefer for someone to stand beside me and guide me through the night with a light from a bulb.

[muldoonthief]

Of course, I'm still dreading the moment during a football game when I'm asked "Daddy, what's an erection, and have you ever had one lasting more than 4 hours?"


Well, have you? :D


I've already got an answer planned for that one - "Do you remember the time mommie had to use crutches for week?"

[Translucent Daydream]

You aren't using all the Dad superpowers. Try boredom through overexplanation :

"Dad, what's a virgin? "

" A virgin is someone who has never had sex. The term can also be used to describe anything that is clean or unstained, or something that has never been used. For example, virgin white snow is snow no one has walked in, while a virgin wilderness is an area where no one has explored, and a virgin forest would have had no logging. What do you think extra virgin olive oil means? "

"Um.....the olives aren't picked?"

"no, try again"

" The olives were from a forest that hadn't been logged? "

"Good thought, but it turns out to mean that its the first olive oil that comes out of the olive press, the olive squashing machine. Funny thing about olives, you can't just eat them off the tree..."

Conversation wanders off to horticulture. It's helpful to take a deep breath at the beginning, so that there are no pauses.

For the win. This is perfect, you answer the question, and make sex a boring concept.


/
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[HeyHomie]

When I was a kid, I thought it was "round young virgin," the "round" referring to the shape of her [pregnant] belly.

[HeyHomie]

Funny thing about olives, you can't just eat them off the tree

You can't?

Ignorance: 1
Homie: 0

[Freudian Slit]

I can always see better by the light of the Dawnser Lee.

Ah, fellow fans of Ramona Quimby? :D

Sorry, dude, but I don't think the questions are going to get any *easier* than that one. Maybe you should look for a book for dads on how to talk to daughters about sex - I'm sure there is one.

Yeah, I agree. I don't get when adults get so flustered/freaked out by questions of sex. If they're young enough to ask they won't get embarrassed if you just tell them that a virgin is a person who hasn't had sex. And if they don't know about sex--why not? Is it going to rock a five or seven year old's mind to know that a man's penis gets hard and he puts it into a woman's vagina and that's how they have sex?

[Apollyon]

Wait until you get to explain that Johnny isn't marching home for the local PRIDE parade....."Who is Gay? And why is everyone feeling her?" :D

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

You can't?

Ignorance: 1
Homie: 0

Here's what Wikipedia says about olives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive).

Olives are a naturally bitter fruit that is typically subjected to fermentation or cured with lye or brine to make it more palatable.

[snip]

Freshly picked olive fruit is not palatable because it contains phenolic compounds and oleuropein, a glycoside which makes the fruit too bitter although not unhealthy.

I had a friend in Santa Barbara who cured her own olives, which always impressed me, especially considering the proximity to Trader Joe's.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Yeah, I agree. I don't get when adults get so flustered/freaked out by questions of sex. If they're young enough to ask they won't get embarrassed if you just tell them that a virgin is a person who hasn't had sex. And if they don't know about sex--why not? Is it going to rock a five or seven year old's mind to know that a man's penis gets hard and he puts it into a woman's vagina and that's how they have sex? I started menstruating when I was 10. My mother handed me a booklet about this event (which was thoughtfully supplied by a sanitary napkin company)(back in those days, we didn't HAVE mini and maxi pads, we had napkins which we fastened to elastic belts) and told me to wrap my used napkins in newspapers, not in toilet tissue, because we were going to throw the newspapers away anyway. During middle school (grades 7 and 8) I got it into my head that if a boy or man touched me when I was having my period, I could get pregnant. I was very careful to avoid any male's touch during those times, as I'd heard a lot about unwed mothers (all bad), and I didn't want to become one.

You see, I'd read that the Virgin Mary had been "untouched by a man", or something like that, and I thought that this meant a literal touch, not that she had not had sex.

[Antinor01]

Ah, fellow fans of Ramona Quimby? :D

Actually this thread reminded me that it was a Ramona book where I learned the word varlet.

As in 'shut up varlet, yonder car approacheth, our noble mother cometh.' At least I think that's the line, it's the only thing I could remember. I knew it was from a book I read as a kid but couldn't think of what it was.

Apologies to the OP for the hijacking, but that had bugged me for years.

[Kobal2]

They'll learn virginity by doing it?

Yeah... I guess that makes sense...

Trust hundreds of teenage boys : the longer you practice virginity, the more keenly aware of it you become :p

[horsetech]

Our Father who art in heaven, Harold be thy name.

Andy walks with me, Andy talks with me.

[legalsnugs]

Gladly, the Cross-eyed Bear.

Hail Mary Fuller Grace, Dolores Whitney....





I love sex threads....

[muldoonthief]

Anaamika, Cat Whisperer, & Freudian Slit, I'm glad that you are able to talk about sex with your kids without any embarassment or discomfort. I cannot. As I've said, I have and will answer their questions, but questions out of the blue (like those inspired by a religious Christmas carol) will still throw me for a few seconds. If my wife is around, I will still usually try to redirect the question to her, because (a) she isn't embarrassed or uncomfortable, and (b) due to her being a nurse, I think she's better equipped to answer such questions. Just like when my oldest was practicing her multiplication tables and discovered that (n+1)(n-1) = n2-1 and asked my wife why, she punted that question right over to me.