Today I saw a loser that made me so mad

[bucketybuck]

Because I knew a girl that beautiful would never want anything to do with a loser like me.

There is a line in the bible that goes something like,

"If you are walking in a valley of shit, be sure to keep your head high.."

(I think it was from the gospel of Mark, appendice 3 (concerning muppets)

It is with this in mind that I would like to invite our laugh-a-minute friend mookieblaylock to leave the shallow waters of MPSIMS and join me in the pit where I can say what I really think.

mookie, its like this. Life is hard, its a real pain in the ass, and we all have our problems. Let me repeat that, we ALL have our problems. Its the height of fucking self indulgence to think that you have it any worse than all of the thousands of people ignoring you in the street every day.

But what do the rest of us do? We fucking get on with it. We lean forward, take the strain and keep going. What we do not do is sit there like a useless lump of fucktard and whine about how much we suck.

That is exactly what I am doing. Hence why I'm so alone, since no one wants such a huge loser around.

Of course nobody wants you around, you are a fucking loser, just listen to yourself whinging for fuck sake. So knowing that, what are you going to do about it? Oh, I know, why dont you go on the internet and keep repeating to strangers that you are a loser. Yeah, thats the ticket, that will turn things around.

For fucks sake, you are a 22 year old kid. All it would take to change things for you would be some bubble bath and a few runs to the park. Hardly an insurmountable task. Hell, Bono is out there trying to cure Africa, yet here you are crying that its hard to look in the mirror. Are you harder to cure than Africa? Should we pull Bono of that job and give him your file? (We can do that you know, Bob Geldof just takes over, but we shouldnt have to)


I've been doing what I like my whole life, and I'm 22 years old and never had a girlfriend. Maybe that works for people like you, but I figured out I'm a pathetic piece of shit that no girl will touch a while ago, because I certainly wasn't attractive when my attitude was good.


Mookie you cretin, grow the FUCK up. Go wash off that eyeliner. Or put on some eyeliner. Fuck it do SOMETHING with eyeliner, something that involves an activity other than trolling MPSIMS. Oh yes, trolling. I know, I know, its probably fun to goad all the kitty huggers into offering all their hugs and kisses and sympathies and life stories and crap, only to then ignore their words with more noble self loathing, but it wont be much fun when you realise that if you had spent that time getting some fresh air you might actually remember which bits girls have that we guys don't.


Well, I think those last few posts prove to myself and you all that I'm really worthless and beyond hope. I'm out.


Out? Outside I hope.

Mookie, I have one bit of advice for your lonely ass. I heard it when I was in Australia, where I believe a sports team had it tattooed on their arms. Four simple words to make them keep fighting.

"Harden the fuck up"

[FinnAgain]

Telling someone who is dramatically depressed to just snap out of it is a bit like telling a drowning man to learn to walk on water.

With that being said, exercise and fresh air is a very good prescription for dark days.

[Covered_In_Bees!]

I have a problem with this pitting. It assumes our dear mookie is not pulling the collective strings of all who try to help him. If he's genuine, this thread is pretty much everything I wanted to say to him.

Time for the emo pussy to grow up a little. Not even fully grow up, just enough to at least resemble a 22 year old instead of an early teen.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Either he's been totally straightforward and means what he says, in which case you're just being a prick because it's an easy target, or he's trolling like you say, in which case I guess you're the easy target.

[bucketybuck]

Telling someone who is dramatically depressed to just snap out of it is a bit like telling a drowning man to learn to walk on water.

With that being said, exercise and fresh air is a very good prescription for dark days.

I don't think he is drowning, I think he is standing in a paddling pool crying because his feet are wet.

[tacoloco]

Awesome. Another pick on the potentially mentally ill pitting.

:eek:

[gigi]

You know, you sound like Andy Rooney after Kurt Cobain died--how dare this young man with everything ahead of him throw away his life. Hell, I was that depressed in my early 20s too and "hardening the fuck up" wasn't an option I could imagine.

Jesus, just being someone isn't as "strong" as you are, and feels comfortable opening up here, you take a shit all over him?

I guess I'll take the chance that I'm being pranked by a troll.

[Euphonious Polemic]

I don't think he is drowning, I think he is standing in a paddling pool crying because his feet are wet.

Or he's clinically depressed, in which case he needs to get the frig off this board and seek competent professional help. All he gets here is a pity party at best and a pitting at worst, neither of which are of any use to him whatever.

[Jackmannii]

All it would take to change things for you would be some bubble bath and a few runs to the park.Wouldn't it make more sense to do those things in reverse order?

[Little Bird]

Maybe it's because I'm a psychiatrist's daughter that I see mental illness as exactly the same as diabetes, heart disease, or a bad knee--something that hurts and sucks to deal with but you go to the doctor and follow certain protocols and do daily maintenance and get better. But just complaining about it never accomplished anything, and getting warm fuzzies on the internet won't fix a pancreas any more than a brain.

People like mookieblaylock are certainly welcome to complain about their problems as far as I can see, but if they won't lift a fucking finger to try to fix them, then they deserve a full force pitting just as flamey as a person with diabetes complaining about their gangrenous foot getting cut off while sucking down a pound of hard candy.

[gigi]

I agree with you, but emotional issues are harder to quantify (even psych docs don't know how the brain works) and with the stigma attached combined with maybe having always been this way and thinking it's normal, it's harder to see the problem than a gangrenous foot.

[Shodan]

The thread mookie started didn't do any good; this one won't either.

Regards,
Shodan

[olivesmarch4th]

Bucketybuck, starting this thread was a shitty ass thing to do. There's no excuse for this kind of mean-spirited bullshit. I hope you never have to go through what this poor kid is going through. And if you do, I hope you receive more compassion than you've shown here. Jesus Christ.

[bucketybuck]

Bucketybuck, starting this thread was a shitty ass thing to do. There's no excuse for this kind of mean-spirited bullshit. I hope you never have to go through what this poor kid is going through. And if you do, I hope you receive more compassion than you've shown here. Jesus Christ.

Oh go give him a fucking hug then.

Lets be clear, I have no problem with the struggle against depression. I have no doubt that peoples personal demons can be much more frightening than anything the world outside has to offer.

What I do have a problem with is a whiney little shite who wants to wallow in his own misery more than he really wants to do anything about it.

Seriously, upon starting a thread about it, wouldn't somebody with depression want to actually you know, talk about it! Even if only to respond to some peoples comments with, "yeah, its sorta like that, and I find it hard".

Instead mookieblaylock just wants to whine over and over, "I'm a loser, I'm a loser".

The struggle against depression is real, but I think mookie just couldnt be bothered with the actual 'struggle' part. Far easier to wallow.

Unless of course he is just a troll, either way, you may think its shitty, but I stand by my opinion and this pitting.

[marshmallow]

Why be mad? Be glad. Less competition.

[FinnAgain]

Lets be clear, I have no problem with the struggle against depression. [...]
What I do have a problem with is a whiney little shite who wants to wallow in his own misery more than he really wants to do anything about it.

You don't spot the contradiction do you? Someone in the depths of depression cares little for much other than feeling sorry for him or herself. That's what depression means. Struggling against depression means the struggle against wallowing.


The struggle against depression is real, but I think mookie just couldnt be bothered with the actual 'struggle' part. Far easier to wallow.

Deep depression means that simply getting out of bed and brushing your teeth is a struggle. Of course someone who's depressed will wallow, that's what depression is. If they could just shake themselves off and start feeling better then they wouldn't be depressed.

[Cat Fight]

I wrote something similar in that thread, but there's no reason to think that gorgeous woman didn't have clinical depression herself. Life is funny and it often sucks. Clinical depression is one thing, and self pity is another, but it's not up to other people (even strangers) to trigger his blues or make him feel better. I agree with those who said he's got to work on himself and make himself a better person. That being said, feeling like a loser is a scary thing, because people really can sense it and are terrified of catching social awkwardness. You've got to work on not caring, which is so much easier said than done.

ETA Upon re-reading, that is really vague. Oh well, TGIF WTF.

[ToeJam]

This is what the Pit comes down to- picking on the mpsim'mers?
There's a reason it's mundane and pointless- it's one thing to pit him if it involved you in some way. But to pick on him just for bitching in a place designated for sharing MUNDANE and POINTLESS things? This pitting is just unnecessarily picking on the weak. Though it's also incredibly Meta as well- you're basically bitching about him bitching, and now with this post, I'm bitching about you bitching about him bitching. It's a vicious cycle of bitchery! OH NOES! If only there was someone out there to debauch this spectacularly maddening debacle of butchering de-bitchery?



Why yes, I do like hearing myself talk sometimes with no point in mind. Then again I guess the OP can relate to that though.

[mswas]

I've found that there is no better cure for depression than to be belittled by a mob. That snaps one right out of it.

[Talon Karrde]

I approve of the OP actually. To me it's not mean-spirited, in fact it's the opposite. Some times people need a kick in the ass.

I'm bookmarking this thread to read next time I'm depressed and feeling sorry for myself.

[Beware of Doug]

Awesome. Another pick on the potentially mentally ill pitting.

:eek:It's how the rest of us reassure ourselves we're not so fucked up after all. We all feel stronger when we pick on the weak.

You can tell when it's happening when someone says - in effect - "I'm going to refuse to give a shit about you for your own good."

People usually hand out ass-kickings for their own reasons or some notion of abstract social fairness, not for the sake of the kickee.

[Chessic Sense]

This is exactly what I wanted to post in that thread, until I came across the mod warning.

Boo-fucking-hoo. If he's really that much of a loser, then there must be some identifiable reason. Had he said something like "I'm terrible at talking to people" or even "I can't pay attention when people are speaking" then at least we'd have some handle on it. We could actually put together some sort of advice.

But instead, it was just a long train of "I'm a loser because I'm worthless because no one wants me because I'm a loser." which tells us jack-all about how to help him. So it really was just a pity party. For some reason, people jumped in there, telling him it'll be all right and that he should get a hobby. I mean, people actually friggin came to the pity party.

If he's fat, he needs to get thin. If he's depressed, he needs drugs. If he's introverted, he needs to be extroverted. This is not hard to come up with, people. I have no patience for people that won't at least get on the road to helping themselves.


But hey, I'm the guy that admitted in the confessions thread that I was born without an iota of compassion or sympathy. So go figure.

[Beware of Doug]

Compassion and sympathy are not terribly popular in many circles these days. It's why we have teabaggers, for one thing. Strength and character today mean closing your heart, especially if you are male.

[Guinastasia]

But hey, I'm the guy that admitted in the confessions thread that I was born without an iota of compassion or sympathy. So go figure.

And that's something to be proud of?

[mswas]

And that's something to be proud of?

On the dope? Or internet message boards in general? Absolutely. Sympathy is a sign of weakness.

[Guinastasia]

On the dope? Or internet message boards in general? Absolutely. Sympathy is a sign of weakness.

Eh, you've got me there.

I agree mookie needs a kick in the ass to get some help, but telling him the whole, "you're a loser, just 'snap out of it'" isn't "help."

[BigT]

Maybe it's because I'm a psychiatrist's daughter that I see mental illness as exactly the same as diabetes, heart disease, or a bad knee--something that hurts and sucks to deal with but you go to the doctor and follow certain protocols and do daily maintenance and get better. But just complaining about it never accomplished anything, and getting warm fuzzies on the internet won't fix a pancreas any more than a brain.

People like mookieblaylock are certainly welcome to complain about their problems as far as I can see, but if they won't lift a fucking finger to try to fix them, then they deserve a full force pitting just as flamey as a person with diabetes complaining about their gangrenous foot getting cut off while sucking down a pound of hard candy.

You know, I was just going to comment on how uninformed people like to talk shit about things they don't understand. But you take the cake.

You have the information necessary to understand that a depressed person specifically lacks the ability to assess the situation logically. When the brain is the thing that is sick, you can't expect it to rise above its own sickness.

I think you know this. So, I am going to be plain. You are a bigot. You know the person can't help how they are at a given time, but you expect them to do it anyways. It's no different than expecting a gay person to stop being gay because you, as a straight person, have found you can stop being attracted to the same sex.

I sincerely hope you find yourself in a situation where you get depressed. And I want you to go along not complaining at all, and do exactly what the doctor says, even though it actually hurts more than the depression itself. With the level of cluelessness that you have displayed, I believe you'd not make it past the "Should I slit my wrist" phase.

As for the rest of you, get a fucking clue, or be thought of as bigots for the rest of your life. This is the sort of crap I'd expect out of Der Trihs or Diogenes (or even Shodan or the newly departed Carol Stream.)

[Beware of Doug]

There are also a lot of people out there whose idea of a kick in the ass is a full-on ass-kicking.

[SteveG1]

But hey, I'm the guy that admitted in the confessions thread that I was born without an iota of compassion or sympathy. So go figure.
So go out and get some instead of sitting here doing nothing about it. No good layabout. :D

[The Bith Shuffle]

In my view, the original poster betrays more personal immaturity here than the doper he criticizes does.

[Guinastasia]

There are also a lot of people out there whose idea of a kick in the ass is a full-on ass-kicking.

Well, MINE isn't. It's more like being sympathetic, but blunt. I basically wanted to say something like:


Look, I hear you. I've been there. God knows I've been there. You think you're the only one who feels this way, but you're not. But you CAN fight this. You HAVE to, for your own sake. You need to go and get help.
Depression and mental illness are nothing to be ashamed of, and anyone who says otherwise can go masturbate with a chainsaw.
But you also can't except the Straight Dope to be your therapy. It's not fair to us, and we're not professionals. We can offer support -- but not a solution, if that makes sense.
Just remember -- we're here for you. You're not a loser, and there are people out there who care. Again, you're not alone.
Good luck.

[BigT]

Well, MINE isn't. It's more like being sympathetic, but blunt. I basically wanted to say something like:

What is all this crap about "He needs to go get help"? He admitted in the thread proper that he is seeing a professional, and just venting on here. Just like the rest of y'all do. But somehow that makes him subhuman.

[Docta G]

Someone should introduce mookie to Sandra Tsing Loh.

[Dallas Jones]

bucketybuck You have provided a public service, by letting everyone know just what sort of person you are this holiday season.

Would you kick mookieblaylock in the stomach while he is down, or tell him to get the fuck up so you can knock him back down?

I think one of you needs mental health care, but I am not sure which.

[Chessic Sense]

And that's something to be proud of?

I'm no more proud of it than the fact that I have brown hair. I'm defintitely not going to apologize for it. And I'm certainly not going to pretend like I feel sad for mookie.

I sincerely hope you find yourself in a situation where you get depressed. And I want you to go along not complaining at all, and do exactly what the doctor says, even though it actually hurts more than the depression itself. With the level of cluelessness that you have displayed, I believe you'd not make it past the "Should I slit my wrist" phase.

You say that like we haven't had difficult lives. I've been there. We've all been there. But it didn't end until I figured out that the cavalry wasn't going to come save me. So I hardened the fuck up. The kid's crying for help, and I have absolutely no desire to go help him. Do you? Then you do it.

get a fucking clue, or be thought of as bigots for the rest of your life.

By you? Aw. You're breaking I fucking heart, guy.

[olivesmarch4th]

You don't spot the contradiction do you? Someone in the depths of depression cares little for much other than feeling sorry for him or herself. That's what depression means. Struggling against depression means the struggle against wallowing.



Deep depression means that simply getting out of bed and brushing your teeth is a struggle. Of course someone who's depressed will wallow, that's what depression is. If they could just shake themselves off and start feeling better then they wouldn't be depressed.

Really beautifully put.

''Tough love'' is not reinforcing the irrational cognitions that cause depression (such as, ''I'm a loser.'') There are no circumstances under which that is loving. Tough love is calling ''bullshit'' on those cognitions and getting real about what it takes to overcome depression -- a lot of shitty hard work. My husband has provided more than his share of ass-kickings in order to jump-start me into proactive behavior, but he never, not once, said, ''You know what? You're right. You're a total loser and you're never going to get better and you might as well give up because you're destined to fail.'' Instead he said, ''Why the fuck would you believe that? It's so obviously not true. Look at example A and B and X and Z and remember T and don't forget Y. You can't expect this to happen overnight. Progress takes time. You're too hard on yourself. Stop believing all that other bullshit and come for a walk with me.'' THAT's tough love.

Wallowing is definitely what depression is, so a struggle against depression is not devoid of wallowing by any stretch of the imagination. I've recovered substantially from severe depression, and I've wallowed. Hell, I wallowed as recently as last week. Attacking someone for wallowing is like attacking a diabetic for feeling fatigued.

Diabetes sucks, but having diabetes doesn't take away your desire to be free from diabetes. Depression is an insidious bastard because it takes away your desire to even be free from depression. It is a self-perpetuating disease--really strategic shit from some sadistic genius of a god. Overcoming it does not happen in one day, and for some of us, ''overcoming depression'' is something we do over and over for the rest of our lives.

Do some people choose not to get better? Absolutely. But I don't think we can take one moment of wallowing as evidence that this is the case.

[Guinastasia]

What is all this crap about "He needs to go get help"? He admitted in the thread proper that he is seeing a professional, and just venting on here. Just like the rest of y'all do. But somehow that makes him subhuman.

When did I say that made him subhuman? And there's a difference between venting and wallowing. Again, I've been there, and in my opinion, that's not venting. You may feel otherwise.

So I hardened the fuck up. The kid's crying for help, and I have absolutely no desire to go help him.

"Hardened the fuck up" =! becoming a near sociopath.

[Beware of Doug]

Well, MINE isn't. It's more like being sympathetic, but blunt. I basically wanted to say something like:If you can do that without losing face, more power to you. Under the current rules of (society/culture/the netz/the SDMB), a lot of men can't.

[BigT]

When did I say that made him subhuman? And there's a difference between venting and wallowing.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I only quoted you because you were the last person to say he needs to get help.

I actually think you are one of the more reasonable people in this thread. (Heck, my rant on the psych's daughter is probably as bad as the OP, if not worse.) I assume you just missed the part where mookie said he was getting help.

I think that calling a person a loser is essentially saying they aren't quite human. I think a person would not kick a person when they are down if they really thought they were a person. But maybe the OP would pit a cancer victim for daring to have cancer.

[Guinastasia]

If you can do that without losing face, more power to you. Under the current rules of (society/culture/the netz/the SDMB), a lot of men can't.

I hear you -- in fact, it's enough to make ME depressed.

I don't ever want to go through that again. To me, it felt like being persued by demons that would never let me go. Thank god I had family that supported me -- I hope mookieblaylock has a support system.

[Docta G]

Someone should introduce mookie to Sandra Tsing Loh.

OK, that was a cheap joke. I too suffer from severe depression. Maybe that was the depression joking.

[Maeglin]

I'm no more proud of it than the fact that I have brown hair. I'm defintitely not going to apologize for it. And I'm certainly not going to pretend like I feel sad for mookie.

Why do you assume that sympathy is inborn as opposed to a character trait?

[jjimm]

bucketybuck, I am pretty disgusted by what you've done here. Having been introduced over the past two years to genuine depression for the first time, I can tell you that: If you've never experienced it, you have no idea how fucking unbelievably horrible it is. People who are well bandy the word "depressed" around when they mean "sad". If you've actually had depression - and I think we can assume, since he's in treatment for the condition, that mookieblaylock genuinely does have it - you fucking know you've got something way beyond your immediate control. One of the many unpleasant symptoms of it is crushingly low self-esteem. And that leads to "whining". If you're suffering and lucky enough to be able to reach out, looking for compassion and comprehension, or just to express how you feel. To mentally well recipients it looks like whining. Actually, that reaching out is the sufferer actually doing something positive - at least they're speaking, honestly, about how they feel. This thread is potentially damaging. Again, if you have never experienced it, you will not realise how there are compassionate ways to encourage someone with this affliction to sort themselves out and seek help, and change their attitudes. Attacking them in this way is not going to do anything but add to the pain.Dude, I would not wish what mookieblaylock is going through on my worst enemy. I likened it to being inside a bell jar of filth: you know the world is outside and full of good stuff, but you cannot get near it, and your perceptions of it, and yourself, are tainted. By all means advise the guy to persist with the help he's getting, and tell him you aren't enjoying his venting - but don't scour the poor fucker over the coals.

[tacoloco]

I'm no more proud of it than the fact that I have brown hair. I'm defintitely not going to apologize for it. And I'm certainly not going to pretend like I feel sad for mookie.

I'm convinced you wear your lack of compassion like a badge of honor. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

You say that like we haven't had difficult lives. I've been there. We've all been there. But it didn't end until I figured out that the cavalry wasn't going to come save me. So I hardened the fuck up. The kid's crying for help, and I have absolutely no desire to go help him. Do you? Then you do it.

Here's the thing, snowflake. You don't have to have any compassion for the guy. But at the same time your defective lack of compassion prevents you from knowing when to not add to someone else's misery.

It's pretty clear to me that you're fairly clueless about people with mental health issues. If you were you'd know that it isn't possible for some people to "harden the fuck up". The fact that you don't understand that is just another aspect of your seemingly defective personality.

[B. Serum]

I get that he's in a horrible place with a legitimate condition. The thing that people are exasperated with is that he's thrown everybody's goodwill and thrown it back in their face.

My policy for helping others is that they have to be an active participant in their recovery, otherwise everyone's time, effort, and emotional investment is wasted.

[mswas]

Why do you assume that sympathy is inborn as opposed to a character trait?

Why do you assume that there is a difference between inborn traits and character traits?

[mswas]

Eh, you've got me there.

I agree mookie needs a kick in the ass to get some help, but telling him the whole, "you're a loser, just 'snap out of it'" isn't "help."

Actually, it's just sadism hidden behind a false concern. The people trash talking here do not care about Mooky, they like making fun of him for his suffering. He's less than them, they are better than he is. He's pathetic, and loser. But it's his own fault because he isn't being treated by a Doctor.

[Chessic Sense]

"Hardened the fuck up" =! becoming a near sociopath.
I think a person would not kick a person when they are down if they really thought they were a person. But maybe the OP would pit a cancer victim for daring to have cancer.

What makes you think I'm sociopathic? I'm not kicking the guy when he's down. I'm stepping over him. Totally different. And I don't think the OP (or I) would pit a cancer victim for having cancer. We'd pit the cancer victim that refused to get treated and at the same time bitched about dying.

If you can do that without losing face, more power to you. Under the current rules of (society/culture/the netz/the SDMB), a lot of men can't.

That's not true. Breaking the paradigm and saying things like "Yes, I enjoy musicals" or whatever is part of being a self-confident person.

Why do you assume that sympathy is inborn as opposed to a character trait?

You're missing the analogy. Saying "I was born without a heart" is a metaphor. The brown-hair-thing is merely stating that I'm rather indifferent to it. It's a part of me. I have no desire to change it.

I'm convinced you wear your lack of compassion like a badge of honor. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

No. There are a set of events and actions in my life that have led me to be this way. Iraq, for one. My parents, for another. My former physique, for a third. THOSE I wear like a badge of honor because overcoming hurdles is honorable. My lack of compassion for people unwilling to do the same as I have done is merely a side effect. But enough about me.

Here's the thing, snowflake. You don't have to have any compassion for the guy. But at the same time your defective lack of compassion prevents you from knowing when to not add to someone else's misery.

It's pretty clear to me that you're fairly clueless about people with mental health issues. If you were you'd know that it isn't possible for some people to "harden the fuck up". The fact that you don't understand that is just another aspect of your seemingly defective personality.

Snowflake. Cute. Not sure where you're going with that.

My lack of compassion for people who KNOW how to help themselves but won't do it is not a character flaw. It's not a defect. I'm not piling on the misery because he's not even reading this right now. If he is, he doesn't have to be. I'm not expecting him to "harden the fuck up" and feel better. I'm expecting him to harden the fuck up and go see a doctor, distance himself from poisonous friends, take his meds, join a club, and all the other things we've told him he needs to do. He knows what he needs to do but he won't do it. So I'm with Cat Whisperer here. We're out.

[Trepa Mayfield]

But it's his own fault because he isn't being treated by a Doctor.

And of course, this is the weirdest part of it all, since he is seeing a doctor.

[mswas]

And of course, this is the weirdest part of it all, since he is seeing a doctor.

LOL, the plot sickens.

It's always funny to me when people say they have no sympathy for someone who is depressed and doesn't see a Doctor. I guess they don't realize that Depression essentially hamstrings you from doing ANYTHING to varying degrees. But since he IS seeing a Doctor...well. They always couch it in such enlightened terms. "I understand Depression is a disease, but I am going to make an excuse for myself so I can berate you for not having the motivation to go to a Doctor since you have a disease that sucks out all motivation."

[elbows]

My spidey sense says attention seeking preteen/teenager.

And really, if you go back and look, a pretty good one. He barely typed any words and we just poured the attention on him.

Honestly I doubt it matters if it was pages of hugs and sincerity or more pages of scorn and tough love.

You gotta give him his props, in my opinion, he still making us all dance, when you think about it. No too shabby for a teen.

[Guinastasia]

What makes you think I'm sociopathic? I'm not kicking the guy when he's down. I'm stepping over him. Totally different. And I don't think the OP (or I) would pit a cancer victim for having cancer. We'd pit the cancer victim that refused to get treated and at the same time bitched about dying.


Did you read the part where he said he IS seeing a doctor, fucknuggets?

If you really WERE "stepping over him", you wouldn't give a shit to say anything at all.

[hotflungwok]

Hey bucketybuck, I've got this hurt puppy here, I'll bet you could totally kick it. One of it's legs is broken and it can't move very fast, go for it. C'mon, get a good run up and go for 7, you know you wanna. It makes you feel all big and manly picking on things that need help like that. Go for it. Show us all how tough and hard you are, it can't fight back.

Dipshit.

[Chessic Sense]

Did you read the part where he said he IS seeing a doctor, fucknuggets?

If you really WERE "stepping over him", you wouldn't give a shit to say anything at all.

Yeah, I saw it. So? Am I not allowed to be irked by his attention whoring and dismissal of all our advice?

And I don't know if you noticed, but we're in the Pit. There's no room for sunshine and lollipops here. It's the BBQ Pit, not the Kumbaya Bonfire. This is where we're SUPPOSED to tease, mock, and jeer those that we feel like teasing, mocking, and jeering. I'm pretty sure 99% of the posters on here don't give a shit about anything posted here. It doesn't stop us from posting. Gotta love the posters that are always "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" when we're in the FUCKING PIT. The fact that I'm posting doesn't mean I give a shit about any of this.

[Miller]

Chessic Sense, you might want to dwell on the difference in meaning between "allowed" and "supposed."

[The Understander]

Without commenting on mookieblaylock, since it is difficult to tell attention-seeker from troll from soul crying out for help these days...

Sympathy is weakness, eh? I disagree. It takes balls for a man to show that he can have sympathy for others--those who can't and buy into the prison mentality are really just toadies, trying to show they can be just like the bully heroes that apparently are to be admired by society at large. In other words, you're their bitches.

Following the crowd takes no guts. Being your own person and offering a hand up does.

[Chessic Sense]

Sympathy is weakness, eh? I disagree.

Are you disagreeing with me or someone else? You know I said the same thing, right?

That's not true. Breaking the paradigm and saying things like "Yes, I enjoy musicals" or whatever is part of being a self-confident person.

[Maeglin]

No. There are a set of events and actions in my life that have led me to be this way. Iraq, for one. My parents, for another. My former physique, for a third. THOSE I wear like a badge of honor because overcoming hurdles is honorable. My lack of compassion for people unwilling to do the same as I have done is merely a side effect. But enough about me.

You made this about you and you further hide your ethical culpability. Your experiences have not inextricably left you without sympathy, as others who have walked in shoes of a similar size have not left their better natures at the door. You made a choice, for better or worse, and you should at least cop to it. It is, simply put, a defect in character.

[Guinastasia]

Yeah, I saw it. So? Am I not allowed to be irked by his attention whoring and dismissal of all our advice?

And I don't know if you noticed, but we're in the Pit. There's no room for sunshine and lollipops here. It's the BBQ Pit, not the Kumbaya Bonfire. This is where we're SUPPOSED to tease, mock, and jeer those that we feel like teasing, mocking, and jeering. I'm pretty sure 99% of the posters on here don't give a shit about anything posted here. It doesn't stop us from posting. Gotta love the posters that are always "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" when we're in the FUCKING PIT. The fact that I'm posting doesn't mean I give a shit about any of this.


Wow...you really are an evil bastard, aren't you? You like "teasing, mocking, and jeering" the mentally ill, eh? You are one sick SOB.

You didn't give "advice". You basically reinforced the guy's guy's own feelings. Wow, with skills like that, you should go into counseling!!!

And yeah, it's the Pit. Doesn't mean you have to be an rat bastard. Ever heard of "excluded middle", dumbshit?

[BigT]

Yeah, I saw it. So? Am I not allowed to be irked by his attention whoring and dismissal of all our advice?

And I don't know if you noticed, but we're in the Pit. There's no room for sunshine and lollipops here. It's the BBQ Pit, not the Kumbaya Bonfire. This is where we're SUPPOSED to tease, mock, and jeer those that we feel like teasing, mocking, and jeering. I'm pretty sure 99% of the posters on here don't give a shit about anything posted here. It doesn't stop us from posting. Gotta love the posters that are always "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" when we're in the FUCKING PIT. The fact that I'm posting doesn't mean I give a shit about any of this.

You're forgetting one little bit. We're in the Pit. That's the perfect place to point out that you are a horrible human being. The Pit isn't a place that condones being a bastard--it's a place to get out your obviously irrational anger. It's for ranting, not being a jerk.

And the idea that people don't care what goes on the Pit is asinine. A poster just got banned for what she did in the Pit. And even before the banning, people were ganging up on her--many who hardly ever post in the pit.

I'm actually starting to think that we may need to stop this. Your behavior might itself be indicative of a mental disorder. If you truly lack compassion and sympathy, then you are the very definition of "Antisocial personality disorder", aka a sociopath. Too bad sociopaths often don't seek professional help until its too late. (Unfortunately, that too late is destructive to others, unlike the one that usually happens to depressives.)

[Chessic Sense]

You made this about you and you further hide your ethical culpability.
I'm ethically culpable now? You know what's a defect of character? Throwing pity parties.

Wow...you really are an evil bastard, aren't you? You like "teasing, mocking, and jeering" the mentally ill, eh? You are one sick SOB.

You didn't give "advice". You basically reinforced the guy's guy's own feelings. Wow, with skills like that, you should go into counseling!!!

Noooooooooo. No matter how hard it is, I want you pay attention now, ok? Hey, hey! Stop looking at shiny things. Focus.

1) The Pit is a place for mocking and jeering people.
2) Quote the post where I said anything to the guy. I never reinforced anything. Because I never posted in that pathetic hug-fest. If you'd been paying attention, you would have noted that at no point has mooky even seen my user name, most likely.

The only person who's mood I'm spoiling is yours and those like you, who trip all over each other to go comfort someone who has no interest and no ability to be comforted. You say I'm kicking him to make myself feel better? You're "hugging" him to make yourself feel better, to show all the other Dopers just how warm and fuzzy you can be.

[Guinastasia]

Noooooooooo. No matter how hard it is, I want you pay attention now, ok? Hey, hey! Stop looking at shiny things. Focus.

1) The Pit is a place for mocking and jeering people.
2) Quote the post where I said anything to the guy. I never reinforced anything. Because I never posted in that pathetic hug-fest. If you'd been paying attention, you would have noted that at no point has mooky even seen my user name, most likely.

Focus yourself. Once again, it's NOT about being all sunshine and lollipops. It's saying, "don't deliberately go and provoke those who are mentally ill." So the guy's a whiner? Duh, that's what depression does to you. Fine, you find it annoying. Doesn't mean you have to poke him with a stick.

If you can't tell the difference, then I can't help you. Is everything always so black and white in your world?

1.) And likewise, we can do it right back to you! See! It's win-win!
2.) I never posted in that "hug-fest" either. Dumbass.

[tacoloco]

Chessic, don't you have some elevator scofflaw to kick or something?

[Chessic Sense]

Focus yourself. Once again, it's NOT about being all sunshine and lollipops. It's saying, "don't deliberately go and provoke those who are mentally ill." So the guy's a whiner? Duh, that's what depression does to you. Fine, you find it annoying. Doesn't mean you have to poke him with a stick.

If you can't tell the difference, then I can't help you. Is everything always so black and white in your world?

1.) And likewise, we can do it right back to you! See! It's win-win!
2.) I never posted in that "hug-fest" either. Dumbass.

Oh for Og's sake. For one thing, it's a plural you. Second, I never poked the guy with a stick. He's not here. He's not reading this. There is no poking going on.

Chessic, don't you have some elevator scofflaw to kick or something?

Funny thing about that today. Long story short, two girls got into a bitch-fest about it today right in front of me! I didn't even have to bring it up. We got on the elevator in the parking garage and the one girl hit the first floor button. And. It. Was. On.

The offender told my fellow high-floorer to eat a dick. She shouted back "You've had enough for the both of us." I high-fived her.

[Wesley Clark]

There is a line in the bible that goes something like,

"If you are walking in a valley of shit, be sure to keep your head high.."

(I think it was from the gospel of Mark, appendice 3 (concerning muppets)

It is with this in mind that I would like to invite our laugh-a-minute friend mookieblaylock to leave the shallow waters of MPSIMS and join me in the pit where I can say what I really think.

mookie, its like this. Life is hard, its a real pain in the ass, and we all have our problems. Let me repeat that, we ALL have our problems. Its the height of fucking self indulgence to think that you have it any worse than all of the thousands of people ignoring you in the street every day.

But what do the rest of us do? We fucking get on with it. We lean forward, take the strain and keep going. What we do not do is sit there like a useless lump of fucktard and whine about how much we suck.

Of course nobody wants you around, you are a fucking loser, just listen to yourself whinging for fuck sake. So knowing that, what are you going to do about it? Oh, I know, why dont you go on the internet and keep repeating to strangers that you are a loser. Yeah, thats the ticket, that will turn things around.

For fucks sake, you are a 22 year old kid. All it would take to change things for you would be some bubble bath and a few runs to the park. Hardly an insurmountable task. Hell, Bono is out there trying to cure Africa, yet here you are crying that its hard to look in the mirror. Are you harder to cure than Africa? Should we pull Bono of that job and give him your file? (We can do that you know, Bob Geldof just takes over, but we shouldnt have to)

Mookie you cretin, grow the FUCK up. Go wash off that eyeliner. Or put on some eyeliner. Fuck it do SOMETHING with eyeliner, something that involves an activity other than trolling MPSIMS. Oh yes, trolling. I know, I know, its probably fun to goad all the kitty huggers into offering all their hugs and kisses and sympathies and life stories and crap, only to then ignore their words with more noble self loathing, but it wont be much fun when you realise that if you had spent that time getting some fresh air you might actually remember which bits girls have that we guys don't.

Out? Outside I hope.

Mookie, I have one bit of advice for your lonely ass. I heard it when I was in Australia, where I believe a sports team had it tattooed on their arms. Four simple words to make them keep fighting.

"Harden the fuck up"

When did being an asshole become more acceptable than being needy? And even though you don't know it, you are a far bigger failure than anyone who is depressed or self loathing could ever be. You are a destructive asshole, which is much worse than being self loathing or embarrassing.

There is a difference between 'weird/annoying to some people' and 'asshole'. You are an asshole. 90% of people prefer to be around weird/annoying people over destructive, self absorbed assholes given a choice. You can keep the other 10%.

The guy is 22. These kinds of emotional & neurological problems he likely suffers from take time to repair. It isn't like a course of antibiotics, where you are healthy in 2 weeks. It takes years to repair emotional trauma. And it is a very messy, embarrassing process. If you don't like watching how messy it is, don't fucking watch.

You are an entitled asshole. Just leave the kid alone if you don't like what he has to say. If not and you are still pissed off, go pick on someone who is able and willing to fight back next time.

Don't pick on a 22 year old with a severe mental illness, 2 suicide attempts, no self worth and likely a pretty traumatic past. I'm not asking you to be ok with his behavior and try to help him, just shut the fuck up in the future and don't contribute to making it worse.

[AqualungBats5th]

Hell, Bono is out there trying to cure Africa, yet here you are crying that its hard to look in the mirror. Are you harder to cure than Africa?

This. This right here is made of awesome.

[statsman1982]

I think this thread is going to be a little like bear-baiting without the bear.

From a completely mercenary standpoint, I really hope that the guy wasn't completely on the edge, because a pitting might just push him over. I don't really want to hear Nancy Grace talk about "the mean-spirited attacks of a message board who drove poor mookie over the edge. Coming up, a spokesperson for the board responds." Not that we couldn't weather the storm, of course, but we don't need the drama or controversy.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I've seen a couple of cases involving cyber bullying. The one involving the young girl who committed suicide because of taunting she got from a "friend" who turned out to be a former best friend's mom.

[ivn1188]

Look, dude. You need to learn the rules. You are not allowed to make fun of fat buttertolls, ugly polyamory practitioners, or overly sensitive "mentally ill" people unless they are conservatives.

I say, if someone wants to kill themselves over a message board, good riddance. I, for one, am not going to worry about being on Nancy Grace (jesus, are you fucking serious? Christ almighty, what a tard). If one of these retards wants to whine about their life in the pit, and someone makes fun of them for being an angsty bitch, also good, except that it will bring the tidal wave of "sensitive" and "nice" people who are shitty posters.

There are too many middle-aged balding beardies and fatties who just want to have a fucking support group on this board as it is. Hopefully the few brave souls who fight back against the incursion of giant pussies who can't hang won't get driven away by the mass of intellectual weaklings.

Of course, these people don't realize what giant douchebags they are, so I fear this post is in vain. But unlike them I won't castigate global warming deniers as people who should be deported and then in my next post quote that retarded bit about first they came for the jews like I'm some sort of deep thinker.

[Starving Artist]

A few minutes ago I read Wesley Clark's post very appropriately calling bucketybuck an asshole. Truer words were never spoken.

Then I browsed a few other forums and came back to the Pit, where I saw the last post was by ivn1188 and I thought to myself, "Great, looks like another asshole has joined the thread."

Then I clicked on your post and found out I was right.

[jjimm]

Thank you for writing that, Wesley Clark. Perfectly put.

Chessic Sense, I know you have financially helped a doper in distress in the past. So maybe you're not as unsympathetic as you make out. I'm not sure why you wear your lack of empathy like a badge of pride - particularly because it's one of the diagnostic criteria for several unpleasant mental disorders. You're better than that.

[Crowbar of Irony +3]

It is hard to understand the depth of what mookie might be going through till you have no one to share to, no one to confide to about your weakness, fears and loathings.

Irrational thoughts do not just go away with a snap of the finger. It is possible to wallow in self-pity and at the same time trying to do something about it; you just cannot switch off the internal radio. And eventually you would want to explode; you just need to talk about it before it gets worse.

Thankfully I have reached a saturation point where I don't expect any sympathy or any help. If I have to sprout it out, I am expecting people ask me to harden up, wise up or grow a thicker skin. "Why are you still depressed?" Blah blah blah. I don't blame anyone for not giving me virtual hugs, listening to me or trying to understand me. It's like existing in a different world all together, across chasm which is impossible to gap. Yes, it's sad that the world wants depressed people or those with mental conditions to put up a false front and go on pretending to be happy and all that. No one want to hear their troubles.

Understandably why compassion is at times considered a virtue.

So what the OP is doing is actually 'normal' to me. Just put it this way, everyone would need help one day. How would you like to be treated when you do need help?

[bucketybuck]

I won't bother to quote, but to all those who have decided that I am an asshole, and a 'disgusting' person, I say, don't waste your time. You don't know me, and I don't worry about what strangers on the web think of me, so get over it.

I read mookies thread in MPSIMS, and I had an opinion on his trolling. I would have posted my opinion in his thread, but rules are rules so I posted it here. At least its my honest opinion, rare enough in these parts.

[tacoloco]

Of course, these people don't realize what giant douchebags they are

The irony of one of the Alpha douchebags on the dope calling other people douchebags is sweet and delicious.

I won't bother to quote, but to all those who have decided that I am an asshole, and a 'disgusting' person, I say, don't waste your time. You don't know me, and I don't worry about what strangers on the web think of me, so get over it.

I'm pretty sure it's you who needs to get over it. If you don't care, then why even mention it?

[tacoloco]

...

[FinnAgain]

The irony of one of the Alpha douchebags on the dope calling other people douchebags is sweet and delicious.


Hey, just look at Carol Stream.
Wheels: slow grinding, exceedingly fine, yadda yadda.

[DianaG]

I have no problem with this thread. Crashing the pity party would be rude, and the OP refrained (as did I), but IMO that thread was trolling bullshit, and the Pit is an appropriate place to call it out, if you care enough to.

If someone I actually know and love spurned my every bit of compassionate and well-intentioned advice with "I'm a loser and I'll never be anything other than a loser", I'd tell him right quick that while he may or may not be a loser, he is most certainly a buzzkill, seriously tiresome, and he needs to find some way to snap out of it, and I'm happy to help him do that, but I'm not gonna spend precious hours of my life indulging this crap. Hugging isn't the same as helping.

[mswas]

Look, dude. You need to learn the rules. You are not allowed to make fun of fat buttertolls, ugly polyamory practitioners, or overly sensitive "mentally ill" people unless they are conservatives.

I say, if someone wants to kill themselves over a message board, good riddance. I, for one, am not going to worry about being on Nancy Grace (jesus, are you fucking serious? Christ almighty, what a tard). If one of these retards wants to whine about their life in the pit, and someone makes fun of them for being an angsty bitch, also good, except that it will bring the tidal wave of "sensitive" and "nice" people who are shitty posters.

There are too many middle-aged balding beardies and fatties who just want to have a fucking support group on this board as it is. Hopefully the few brave souls who fight back against the incursion of giant pussies who can't hang won't get driven away by the mass of intellectual weaklings.

Of course, these people don't realize what giant douchebags they are, so I fear this post is in vain. But unlike them I won't castigate global warming deniers as people who should be deported and then in my next post quote that retarded bit about first they came for the jews like I'm some sort of deep thinker.

Moral thought is one of the deepest intellectual considerations.

Stop being such a pussy about it.

[olivesmarch4th]

No. There are a set of events and actions in my life that have led me to be this way. Iraq, for one. My parents, for another. My former physique, for a third. THOSE I wear like a badge of honor because overcoming hurdles is honorable. My lack of compassion for people unwilling to do the same as I have done is merely a side effect. But enough about me.
You say that as if your suffering and overcoming are some kind of excuse not to give a shit about other people. This board is full of sour-grapes whiners with this same attitude and it's getting pretty old. ''I HAD TO SUFFER ALONE! EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO!'' Give me a fucking break. The bitterness bleeds through ever post. All that lack of compassion shows is that you didn't learn shit from your experience.

You're "hugging" him to make yourself feel better, to show all the other Dopers just how warm and fuzzy you can be.
Yeah, because ''warm and fuzzy'' is such a valued trait here on the Dope. :rolleyes:

[Shodan]

My spidey sense says attention seeking preteen/teenager.Or at the least, a histrionic personality.

Which is not to say his problems aren't real. I can totally see someone like him staging a semi-serious suicide attempt to refocus attention on himself from the people around him. But the "I'm such a loser and everyone hates me and they're right" sounded pretty well-rehearsed.

But troll or suicidal or some exhilarating combination of the two, nothing on a messageboard is going to do anyone any good.

Regards,
Shodan

[MsWhatsit]

What's a buttertoll?

[mswas]

Or at the least, a histrionic personality.

Which is not to say his problems aren't real. I can totally see someone like him staging a semi-serious suicide attempt to refocus attention on himself from the people around him. But the "I'm such a loser and everyone hates me and they're right" sounded pretty well-rehearsed.

But troll or suicidal or some exhilarating combination of the two, nothing on a messageboard is going to do anyone any good.

Regards,
Shodan

Leave Mookie alone! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc)

[Isamu]

What's a buttertoll?

Women who would be interesting but for the taxing nature of their arguments.

[Harborwolf]

I'd say to count me in with the sociopathic, puppy kicking, teabagging, being totally closed hearted in this holiday season (which is ridiculous. Is it better to be cruel during the non holidays? How about certain holidays? Can I be mean near arbor day?) people who have zero sympathy for those who start attention seeking threads only to piss all over those offering advice/warm thoughts, but that thread was a big pile of troll.

[The Understander]

Are you disagreeing with me or someone else? You know I said the same thing, right?

Disagreeing with someone else. I got steamed after reading sentiments that sympathy is weakness and wanted to put my two cents in too.

[Dangerosa]

Maybe it's because I'm a psychiatrist's daughter that I see mental illness as exactly the same as diabetes, heart disease, or a bad knee--something that hurts and sucks to deal with but you go to the doctor and follow certain protocols and do daily maintenance and get better. But just complaining about it never accomplished anything, and getting warm fuzzies on the internet won't fix a pancreas any more than a brain.

People like mookieblaylock are certainly welcome to complain about their problems as far as I can see, but if they won't lift a fucking finger to try to fix them, then they deserve a full force pitting just as flamey as a person with diabetes complaining about their gangrenous foot getting cut off while sucking down a pound of hard candy.

Been depressed most of my life -on and off medication. Have a sister and aunt who have been hospitalized for it. More people in my family die of suicide than cancer or heart disease (alcholism ranks a strong second - related to the depression).

And I concur. More depressed people need to be hit over the head with a brick, told to buck up - and part of bucking up is to get yourself into the psychiatrist, into therapy, onto medication.

If you are depressed this IS treatable - but you have to take some responsibility for yourself. If you aren't, your a troll.

[Hello Again]

I have no problem with this thread. Crashing the pity party would be rude, and the OP refrained (as did I), but IMO that thread was trolling bullshit, and the Pit is an appropriate place to call it out, if you care enough to.

If someone I actually know and love spurned my every bit of compassionate and well-intentioned advice with "I'm a loser and I'll never be anything other than a loser", I'd tell him right quick that while he may or may not be a loser, he is most certainly a buzzkill, seriously tiresome, and he needs to find some way to snap out of it, and I'm happy to help him do that, but I'm not gonna spend precious hours of my life indulging this crap. Hugging isn't the same as helping.

Megadittos.

My old friend and housemate went through a period of deep depression, and is actually now designated permanently disabled/unable to work by the VA. I would bang on his door of a Saturday morn and say "Get Up T we're going to breakfast." And he would go "caaaannnn't" and I would say "GET THE FUCK UP T, we're going to breakfast and you're coming" and he would say "nooooooooo" and I would say "QUIT WHINING AND COME TO BREAKFAST, T. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FUCKING SIT THERE."

And after a few rounds of this he would drag himself out of bed, take a shower and and experience an hour of human company and diner pancakes, and thank me for it after.

Maybe I should have let him wallow, left without him, never made him do something he didn't wanna. According to some of y'all there's nothing worse than preventing a depressed person from wallowing in their misery.

BTW, there s nothing bigoted about saying that persistent whiners who also happen to be depressed are incredibly annoying. You can sympathize with a person all you like without enjoying their behavior. Kind of like the guy in the thread who constantly picks at his body and loudly eats the results in the workplace. He obviously has a mental problem... and its fucking annoying.

[Pray for peace]

It's been mentioned before, but the point keeps getting lost in this pitting. The OP from the original thread said that he IS seeing a doctor.

I agree that the SDMB is not a good place to look for support for mental health issues, in fact it is a particularly bad place to look, as evidenced by this thread. Yes, the OP would be better off seeking support from a depression-specific internet forum, or a real-world depression support group.

But what is the point of piling on to call his thread bullshit and histrionic and annoying? You don't have to listen to him - if you don't like his thread, just stop reading it - there is no reason to pit a depressed person who is ill.

[mswas]

Disagreeing with someone else. I got steamed after reading sentiments that sympathy is weakness and wanted to put my two cents in too.

I was being sarcastic.

[mswas]

It's been mentioned before, but the point keeps getting lost in this pitting. The OP from the original thread said that he IS seeing a doctor.

I agree that the SDMB is not a good place to look for support for mental health issues, in fact it is a particularly bad place to look, as evidenced by this thread. Yes, the OP would be better off seeking support from a depression-specific internet forum, or a real-world depression support group.

But what is the point of piling on to call his thread bullshit and histrionic and annoying? You don't have to listen to him - if you don't like his thread, just stop reading it - there is no reason to pit a depressed person who is ill.

Yes there is, the lulz dammit, sadists deserve their lulz!

[Chessic Sense]

Yeah, because ''warm and fuzzy'' is such a valued trait here on the Dope. :rolleyes:

Not on the board. DEFINITELY in MPSIMS.

But what is the point of piling on to call his thread bullshit and histrionic and annoying? You don't have to listen to him - if you don't like his thread, just stop reading it - there is no reason to pit a depressed person who is ill.
With a metric like that, what's the point of pitting anyone on this board?

[SteveG1]

Yeah, I saw it. So? Am I not allowed to be irked by his attention whoring and dismissal of all our advice?

And I don't know if you noticed, but we're in the Pit. There's no room for sunshine and lollipops here. It's the BBQ Pit, not the Kumbaya Bonfire. This is where we're SUPPOSED to tease, mock, and jeer those that we feel like teasing, mocking, and jeering. I'm pretty sure 99% of the posters on here don't give a shit about anything posted here. It doesn't stop us from posting. Gotta love the posters that are always "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" when we're in the FUCKING PIT. The fact that I'm posting doesn't mean I give a shit about any of this.
Yeah, this is the Pit. No one can stop you from posting. Blah blah blah, yada yada yada.

You posted, showed us how tough you are, reiterated how you don't give a fuck.

We're all duly impressed.

There are a lot of things, and plenty of people that I don't give a damn about too. That may mean I'm an asshole too. At least I try not to advertise it or brag about it.

[ivn1188]

Yeah, this is the Pit. No one can stop you from posting. Blah blah blah, yada yada yada.

You posted, showed us how tough you are, reiterated how you don't give a fuck.

We're all duly impressed.

There are a lot of things, and plenty of people that I don't give a damn about too. That may mean I'm an asshole too. At least I try not to advertise it or brag about it.

Yawn. You posted; you showed us how caring you are, and emphasized how much we all (meaning you and the "community") don't want none of that behavior again in these here parts, no sir.

Please don't include me in your little sarcasm laden invocation of the consensus to help carry your weak ass "If you can't say anything nice..." bullshit.

[SteveG1]

Yawn. You posted; you showed us how caring you are, and emphasized how much we all (meaning you and the "community") don't want none of that behavior again in these here parts, no sir.

Please don't include me in your little sarcasm laden invocation of the consensus to help carry your weak ass "If you can't say anything nice..." bullshit.
Gee, you're one tough sumbitch, aren't you.

[Pray for peace]

But what is the point of piling on to call his thread bullshit and histrionic and annoying? You don't have to listen to him - if you don't like his thread, just stop reading it - there is no reason to pit a depressed person who is ill.


Not on the board. DEFINITELY in MPSIMS.


With a metric like that, what's the point of pitting anyone on this board?

Check out the last (bolded) part of what I wrote - the comment is specific to this pitting. It's not OK to pit a depressed person who is ill. He has a disease that can impair judgment. He's not a fair target for pitting. Also, he is seeking treatment from a doctor, so it's incorrect to say that he isn't doing anything about his illness.

[Hello Again]

Check out the last (bolded) part of what I wrote - the comment is specific to this pitting. It's not OK to pit a depressed person who is ill. He has a disease that can impair judgment. He's not a fair target for pitting.
Unless you believe he is not ill, and is trolling. I know this is hard to believe, but sometimes on the Internet, people don't tell the truth. Some people give you particular cause to believe they are not on the level. Sometimes, these people get pitted for their attention whoring.

Question: is a person immune from criticism simply because they said they were ill? Do you believe everything people tell you on the internet without even pausing to question whether you're being used?

[tacoloco]

Gee, you're one tough sumbitch, aren't you.

No. He's a keyboard commando with a big mouth. It's easy to be a dick when you don't have any consequences.

[tacoloco]

Question: is a person immune from criticism simply because they said they were ill? Do you believe everything people tell you on the internet without even pausing to question whether you're being used?

I know this is hard to believe, but there's constructive criticism and there's being an asshole. OP was being an asshole. Chessic was being an asshole.

[Pray for peace]

Megadittos.

My old friend and housemate went through a period of deep depression, and is actually now designated permanently disabled/unable to work by the VA. I would bang on his door of a Saturday morn and say "Get Up T we're going to breakfast." And he would go "caaaannnn't" and I would say "GET THE FUCK UP T, we're going to breakfast and you're coming" and he would say "nooooooooo" and I would say "QUIT WHINING AND COME TO BREAKFAST, T. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FUCKING SIT THERE."

And after a few rounds of this he would drag himself out of bed, take a shower and and experience an hour of human company and diner pancakes, and thank me for it after.

Maybe I should have let him wallow, left without him, never made him do something he didn't wanna. According to some of y'all there's nothing worse than preventing a depressed person from wallowing in their misery.

BTW, there s nothing bigoted about saying that persistent whiners who also happen to be depressed are incredibly annoying. You can sympathize with a person all you like without enjoying their behavior. Kind of like the guy in the thread who constantly picks at his body and loudly eats the results in the workplace. He obviously has a mental problem... and its fucking annoying.

Where in there did you say that the OP was a troll?

[Lord Ashtar]

I know this is hard to believe, but there's constructive criticism and there's being an asshole. OP was being an asshole. Chessic was being an asshole.

I notice you didn't answer the question you quoted.

[Vinyl Turnip]

What's a buttertoll?

I don't know, but it sounds sweet and delicious.

[Kaio]

Maybe it's because I'm a psychiatrist's daughter that I see mental illness as exactly the same as diabetes, heart disease, or a bad knee--something that hurts and sucks to deal with but you go to the doctor and follow certain protocols and do daily maintenance and get better. But just complaining about it never accomplished anything, and getting warm fuzzies on the internet won't fix a pancreas any more than a brain.

People like mookieblaylock are certainly welcome to complain about their problems as far as I can see, but if they won't lift a fucking finger to try to fix them, then they deserve a full force pitting just as flamey as a person with diabetes complaining about their gangrenous foot getting cut off while sucking down a pound of hard candy.

Speaking as someone with a long and arduous history of depression (ranging anywhere from mild dysthymia to suicidal major depression at various points in time), I wholeheartedly agree. I got about halfway through the OP in question before hitting the back button. My only response to a diatribe like that is "What are you going to do about it?"

It would be one thing if he'd actually tried for the millionth time and been rejected; that's when you have to start evaluating why the things you're doing aren't working. But to not even try? Gah.

And again... if you do need to start making these evaluations, whining on an internet messageboard in lieu of doing the work won't change anything at all. Presuming he wants things to change, instead of just wallowing in familiar, comfortable misery, he needs to walk away from the computer and find himself some help. DO something about it.

[tacoloco]

I notice you didn't answer the question you quoted.

The answer is implicit in my response.

Constructive, helpful, non judgmental criticism, sure. Asshole? No.

[Hello Again]

The answer is implicit in my response.

Constructive, helpful, non judgmental criticism, sure. Asshole? No.

Explain to me how you can say
"I believe you are lying about your illness in order to seek attention"
or
"I am sorry for your illness but your behavior is both counterproductive and annoying"

In a helpful non-judgmental manner?

Or according to you these statements are obviously forbidden as soon as someone claims metal illness?

[statsman1982]

Look, dude. You need to learn the rules. You are not allowed to make fun of fat buttertolls, ugly polyamory practitioners, or overly sensitive "mentally ill" people unless they are conservatives.

I say, if someone wants to kill themselves over a message board, good riddance. I, for one, am not going to worry about being on Nancy Grace (jesus, are you fucking serious? Christ almighty, what a tard). If one of these retards wants to whine about their life in the pit, and someone makes fun of them for being an angsty bitch, also good, except that it will bring the tidal wave of "sensitive" and "nice" people who are shitty posters.

There are too many middle-aged balding beardies and fatties who just want to have a fucking support group on this board as it is. Hopefully the few brave souls who fight back against the incursion of giant pussies who can't hang won't get driven away by the mass of intellectual weaklings.

Of course, these people don't realize what giant douchebags they are, so I fear this post is in vain. But unlike them I won't castigate global warming deniers as people who should be deported and then in my next post quote that retarded bit about first they came for the jews like I'm some sort of deep thinker.

Look, Stewie Griffin (reading your posts in his voice is the only thing that makes them bearable): I was expressing an opinion that I really didn't want to see the fallout from a dude offing himself from reading a message board on the infotainment news networks. But I also said we could weather the storm, so get down off the cross. Besides, I thought you'd be right with me, as the Dope being blamed for some dude's suicide would probably clog up the Pit with those "weaksauce rants" you're always yammering about.

Plus, before you declare us all "beardies and fatties" you might want to look at the Doper picture gallery. We're a motley bunch, but I think it's fair to say that several of the posters here (I'm thinking about Shodan and Clothahump specifically) are in pretty good shape. I'd also like to see what you look like, just to see if your head is really shaped like a football.

[Guinastasia]

He's not here. He's not reading this.

You know this how?


You don't know me, and I don't worry about what strangers on the web think of me, so get over it.


And yet AGAIN, no one's saying you have to be "aw, poor baby!" But once again, hello, excluded middle? Jesus, people.

statsman1982, have we ever seen a picture of ivn1188 by the way? EVERYTIME someone brings up the "fatties and middle-aged fugglies" crap I always ask for THEIR pictures. I have yet to see a single photo.

I think it should be a rule.

[Bryan Ekers]

I don't know, but it sounds sweet and delicious.

Yes, at first, but then you find out that digestion is an involved and neverending process.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Megadittos.

My old friend and housemate went through a period of deep depression, and is actually now designated permanently disabled/unable to work by the VA. I would bang on his door of a Saturday morn and say "Get Up T we're going to breakfast." And he would go "caaaannnn't" and I would say "GET THE FUCK UP T, we're going to breakfast and you're coming" and he would say "nooooooooo" and I would say "QUIT WHINING AND COME TO BREAKFAST, T. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FUCKING SIT THERE."

And after a few rounds of this he would drag himself out of bed, take a shower and and experience an hour of human company and diner pancakes, and thank me for it after.

Maybe I should have let him wallow, left without him, never made him do something he didn't wanna. According to some of y'all there's nothing worse than preventing a depressed person from wallowing in their misery.

BTW, there s nothing bigoted about saying that persistent whiners who also happen to be depressed are incredibly annoying. You can sympathize with a person all you like without enjoying their behavior. Kind of like the guy in the thread who constantly picks at his body and loudly eats the results in the workplace. He obviously has a mental problem... and its fucking annoying.

Speaking as someone with a long and arduous history of depression (ranging anywhere from mild dysthymia to suicidal major depression at various points in time), I wholeheartedly agree. I got about halfway through the OP in question before hitting the back button. My only response to a diatribe like that is "What are you going to do about it?"

It would be one thing if he'd actually tried for the millionth time and been rejected; that's when you have to start evaluating why the things you're doing aren't working. But to not even try? Gah.

And again... if you do need to start making these evaluations, whining on an internet messageboard in lieu of doing the work won't change anything at all. Presuming he wants things to change, instead of just wallowing in familiar, comfortable misery, he needs to walk away from the computer and find himself some help. DO something about it.

There's a world of difference between that sort of approach in real life, and that sort of approach on the internet. Namely that it doesn't work on the internet, due to a lack of tone, and the inability to back up words with actions.

Personally, I'm glad that thread was locked. Mookie (assuming he wasn't a troll) wasn't going to get help from anything in that thread, and locking was the only good solution. I hope this thread gets locked too.

[Harborwolf]

And yet AGAIN, no one's saying you have to be "aw, poor baby!" But once again, hello, excluded middle? Jesus, people.Excluded middle? Have you seen the crap that's been spewed in this thread about Buckety and Chessic? They're bigoted, closed hearted, mean spirited, cruel, potentially mentally ill pricks who pick on the weak to make themselves feel stronger and that's just halfway down page one. Seems one group wants very badly to eliminate any possible middle.

[statsman1982]

You know this how?


statsman1982, have we ever seen a picture of ivn1188 by the way? EVERYTIME someone brings up the "fatties and middle-aged fugglies" crap I always ask for THEIR pictures. I have yet to see a single photo.

I think it should be a rule.

Nope, never seen him/her. And I go to the Doper Picture Gallery pretty often.

[ivn1188]

statsman1982, have we ever seen a picture of ivn1188 by the way? EVERYTIME someone brings up the "fatties and middle-aged fugglies" crap I always ask for THEIR pictures. I have yet to see a single photo.

I think it should be a rule.

Of course you think it should be a rule. That's because you're sort of retarded. See, the thing that amuses me is that posters like you just cannot grasp the concept that I really don't care about "hypocrisy" or "being an asshole", nor do I have anything to prove to you. I'm not vying for the doper feel-good seal of approval, nor am I offering constructive criticism to make the world a better place; I do enough in real life that I don't feel the need to console some whiny tard on the internet. My happiness is pretty much orthogonal to what you think.

If you post stupid shit, I'll call you on it. I'm not trying to win you over and make it all better. Frankly, I don't even remember most of the faceless mass of posters who cry about mean people and follow me around calling me a dick in futile attempts to make me see the error of my ways or whatever their goal is.

Oh yes, here's a pic that you can use to imagine me if you like:
here you go (http://www.missioncontrol-fx.co.uk/mission/images/MustardMan_big.jpg)

[billfish678]

If you post stupid shit, I'll call you on it. I'm not trying to win you over and make it all better. Frankly, I don't even remember most of the faceless mass of posters who cry about mean people and follow me around calling me a dick in futile attempts to make me see the error of my ways or whatever their goal is.



So,

Basically, you are here to hear yourself bloviate ?

[ivn1188]

So,

Basically, you are here to hear yourself bloviate ?

No, there are posters here who aren't boring whiny wankers. You're not one of those, though.

[tacoloco]

Explain to me how you can say
"I believe you are lying about your illness in order to seek attention"
or
"I am sorry for your illness but your behavior is both counterproductive and annoying"

In a helpful non-judgmental manner?

Or according to you these statements are obviously forbidden as soon as someone claims metal illness?

"I am sorry for your illness, but I find your behavior counterproductive"

Expresses empathy and doesn't use negative language. This assumes that the reader believes the poster. Obviously, if you think someone is lying, then somebody might say something like your first comment.

But that's not what happened in this thread. A few self righteous fucktards decided that it would be fun to pick on someone who at least may have some issues to deal with.

[tacoloco]

No, there are posters here who aren't boring whiny wankers. You're not one of those, though.

Irony alert.

Boring, whiny wankers describes you to a "T", IVN.

Please do keep filling us up with delicious irony.

[Hello Again]

But that's not what happened in this thread. A few self righteous fucktards decided that it would be fun to pick on someone who at least may have some issues to deal with.
It actually IS what happened in this thread because right off the bat the OP said he believed mookie was a troll.

[ivn1188]

Irony alert.

Boring, whiny wankers describes you to a "T", IVN.

Please do keep filling us up with delicious irony.

It must be difficult for you to have to follow me around and call me names all the time. I feel hurt that you aren't criticizing me without expressing empathy and that you are using negative language.

I forgive you, though. Your mental handicaps shine through in every post you make, and I understand and appreciate your difficulties with posting interesting and insightful things.

[tacoloco]

It must be difficult for you to have to follow me around and call me names all the time. I feel hurt that you aren't criticizing me without expressing empathy and that you are using negative language.

You're in a thread I started posting in. Stop stalking me.

[MsWhatsit]

Of course you think it should be a rule. That's because you're sort of retarded. See, the thing that amuses me is that posters like you just cannot grasp the concept that I really don't care about "hypocrisy" or "being an asshole", nor do I have anything to prove to you. I'm not vying for the doper feel-good seal of approval, nor am I offering constructive criticism to make the world a better place; I do enough in real life that I don't feel the need to console some whiny tard on the internet. My happiness is pretty much orthogonal to what you think.

If you post stupid shit, I'll call you on it. I'm not trying to win you over and make it all better. Frankly, I don't even remember most of the faceless mass of posters who cry about mean people and follow me around calling me a dick in futile attempts to make me see the error of my ways or whatever their goal is.

Oh yes, here's a pic that you can use to imagine me if you like:
here you go (http://www.missioncontrol-fx.co.uk/mission/images/MustardMan_big.jpg)

Heh. Good call, Guin.

[Harborwolf]

But that's not what happened in this thread. A few self righteous fucktards decided that it would be fun to pick on someone who at least may have some issues to deal with.Could you explain what makes them self righteous fucktards and you somehow not?

[ivn1188]

Could you explain what makes them self righteous fucktards and you somehow not?

Heh, good luck with that. Taco has a problem with logic and other stuff like that.

[statsman1982]

Of course you think it should be a rule. That's because you're sort of retarded. See, the thing that amuses me is that posters like you just cannot grasp the concept that I really don't care about "hypocrisy" or "being an asshole", nor do I have anything to prove to you. I'm not vying for the doper feel-good seal of approval, nor am I offering constructive criticism to make the world a better place; I do enough in real life that I don't feel the need to console some whiny tard on the internet. My happiness is pretty much orthogonal to what you think.

If you post stupid shit, I'll call you on it. I'm not trying to win you over and make it all better. Frankly, I don't even remember most of the faceless mass of posters who cry about mean people and follow me around calling me a dick in futile attempts to make me see the error of my ways or whatever their goal is.

Oh yes, here's a pic that you can use to imagine me if you like:
here you go (http://www.missioncontrol-fx.co.uk/mission/images/MustardMan_big.jpg)

Okay, so you look like a grown-up Stewie.

[tacoloco]

IVN: "I'm sorry about your illness, but your behaviors are not good and you are annoying"

This thread will not be turned around to be about me. So ya'll have fun.

[ivn1188]

IVN: "I'm sorry about your illness, but your behaviors are not good and you are annoying"

This thread will not be turned around to be about me. So ya'll have fun.

Yeah, I thought so.

[Dangerosa]

Speaking as someone with a long and arduous history of depression (ranging anywhere from mild dysthymia to suicidal major depression at various points in time), I wholeheartedly agree. I got about halfway through the OP in question before hitting the back button. My only response to a diatribe like that is "What are you going to do about it?"

It would be one thing if he'd actually tried for the millionth time and been rejected; that's when you have to start evaluating why the things you're doing aren't working. But to not even try? Gah.

And again... if you do need to start making these evaluations, whining on an internet messageboard in lieu of doing the work won't change anything at all. Presuming he wants things to change, instead of just wallowing in familiar, comfortable misery, he needs to walk away from the computer and find himself some help. DO something about it.

Oh, whining on an internet board does a lot. It lets you wallow, and makes things worse. And especially when people say "oh poor you," and you feel justified in feeling bad.

Giving pity to some wallowing in depression is giving fudge to a diabetic. Yes, in both cases they are ill - but in both cases they need to do something productive over their own illness - not have people enable them.

[mswas]

I was going to make a joke about tacoloco not going after the low-hanging fruit, but I can't he is going after the low-hanging fruit. ;)

[Harborwolf]

This thread will not be turned around to be about me. So ya'll have fun.Uh huh. I bet you realized that the question has an answer that you may not like, but don't want to admit it. I understand.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Yes, at first, but then you find out that digestion is an involved and neverending process.

Dunno about yours, but mine has a rather unmistakable "final stage."

[Nzinga, Seated]

Why do we have to go all detective to find out if the OP is sincere. Who cares? He is offering us fodder for our message boarding. Let's take his word for it as a part of the message boarding experience, as opposed to only offering our huggles if he is indeed depressed. (if one is the type to offer huggles, that is.)

And again, if someone thinks his depression is pathetic, he should be able to take that to the pit without anyone indicating that it might 'push someone over the edge'. Well it might, but then we all can't be expected to post on message boards with the power to push folks over the edge weighing down our fingertips.

If lying on a message board for attention really makes one a troll, I mean if that really is the definition (I've never been certain of the definition) then I strongly suspect at least 50% of all message boarders to be trolls. And I'm grateful for them! They get me through my work day, they do.

[mswas]

Nzinga Won't somebody think of the douchebags?

[billfish678]

And again, if someone thinks his depression is pathetic, he should be able to take that to the pit without anyone indicating that it might 'push someone over the edge'. Well it might, but then we all can't be expected to post on message boards with the power to push folks over the edge weighing down our fingertips.



Easy to say.

Not so easy when something you do or dont do on the internet ACTUALLY "causes" the death of another real person in real life.

I've been there (sorta). It certainly aint nice. Thank the gods in my case there aint a damn thing I woulda or coulda done different. And even then it aint a nice feeling.

All those "internet assholes in any and all circumstances" would be wise to consider this...

[tacoloco]

Uh huh. I bet you realized that the question has an answer that you may not like, but don't want to admit it. I understand.

I'm always happy to admit when I'm wrong or not thinking the right way.

My issue here is that I don't think it's right for people to attack someone who may have mental health issues, especially when it appears that in some cases, it's simply for sport. What I find especially stupid is the idea that simply because one person has had some experience that someone else can simply do what they did and magically fix things.

If Chessic, for example, was able to dig himself out of a hole, that's great. But just because Chessic did it by hardening the fuck up, doesn't mean
Mooky can. I get a clear vibe from some folks in the thread that this is just a case of some lazy kid who just needs a kick in the ass. Well in my experience, not everyone has the capability to do that.

If that makes me one of the self righteous fucktards, I'm cool with that.

[tacoloco]

And again, if someone thinks his depression is pathetic, he should be able to take that to the pit without anyone indicating that it might 'push someone over the edge'. Well it might, but then we all can't be expected to post on message boards with the power to push folks over the edge weighing down our fingertips.

Nobody is suggesting there should be rules against it and nobody is being prevented from posting something like that. But they have to be prepared to eat the shit sandwich they're gonna get served when people read it.

[mswas]

Nzinga, Seated officially wins the award for most ridiculous dumbass in the thread. Even though others have said precisely what s/he said, I'm awarding it to Nzinga. Basically, the gist of it is if someone is depressed and a lonely loser it's ok to berate them in the pit. What it's NOT ok to do is berate those that are berating that person. Basically, it's a fucking moral requirement to pile onto the poor hapless soul, or STFU!

Or, what Tacoloco said.

[Nzinga, Seated]

Nobody is suggesting there should be rules against it and nobody is being prevented from posting something like that. But they have to be prepared to eat the shit sandwich they're gonna get served when people read it.

I feel you on this, and I actually agree with you. But it makes me uncomfortable when we start getting into territory where we as posters have to feel responsible for another posters well being, based on what we post. This thread isn't the first time I have heard things like, 'I hope this thread hasn't pushed so and so over the edge"

[tacoloco]

I feel you on this, and I actually agree with you. But it makes me uncomfortable when we start getting into territory where we as posters have to feel responsible for another posters well being, based on what we post. This thread isn't the first time I have heard things like, 'I hope this thread hasn't pushed so and so over the edge"

Aye. A fair point.

[mswas]

I feel you on this, and I actually agree with you. But it makes me uncomfortable when we start getting into territory where we as posters have to feel responsible for another posters well being, based on what we post. This thread isn't the first time I have heard things like, 'I hope this thread hasn't pushed so and so over the edge"

Usually they aren't attacking someone for being depressed and feeling worthless.

Basically, what this thread does is say, "You feel worthless? Well guess what! You ARE worthless!" It's hardly the same as taking a narcissist like ivn1188 to task.

[FinnAgain]

I feel you on this, and I actually agree with you. But it makes me uncomfortable when we start getting into territory where we as posters have to feel responsible for another posters well being, based on what we post.

Why would that make you uncomfortable? We, as people, let alone posters, are responsible for the effect that both our words and actions have on other people. Yes yes, only you are in charge of your own emotions and blah blah blah, but if you go up to a five year old whose parent just died and tell her that there is no heaven and her mommy is wormchow, she'll probably cry. And you'll probably merit a kick to your squishier region(s).

So if we see someone on the Dope, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they're clinically, perhaps even dangerously depressed, then the responsible action might just not be to see how unhappy you can make them and how bad you can make them feel for not being able to be happy.
And, when you (plural) choose to inflict emotional distress upon someone, you might not be totally blameless for the consequences. It's not like our community is animated by the same spirit as some other on the net where causing depressed people to off themselves has been cause for lulz.

[olivesmarch4th]

Excluded middle? Have you seen the crap that's been spewed in this thread about Buckety and Chessic? They're bigoted, closed hearted, mean spirited, cruel, potentially mentally ill pricks who pick on the weak to make themselves feel stronger and that's just halfway down page one. Seems one group wants very badly to eliminate any possible middle.

Many people here seem to be confusing the difference between ''acting like an ass'' and ''taking the tough love approach.''

To reiterate: There is a HUGE difference between encouraging someone to go out and do something about their depression and actively reinforcing the irrational cognitions that cause depression. The action taken by bucketybuck in starting this thread directly contradicts the therapeutic goal of refuting negative beliefs.

mooky's resistance in this moment to changing his worldview is a common symptom of depression, and implies nothing whatsoever about his prognosis:

Once the dysfunctional beliefs have been elicited, it is possible to begin working to change them. However as Beck et. al (1979) have pointed out, some severely depressed patients are unable to perceive alternatives to their negative world view. For example, an elderly woman with serious medical problems stated that life was not worth living. The therapist's attempts to alter this hopeless view was met with extreme resistance. Finally, the therapist distracted the patient momentarily by asking about her grandchildren and other more positive aspects of her life. The patient's mood shifted, and within a few minutes she was able to counter the suicidality that had overwhelmed her earlier. Thus the therapist may need to work actively to produce a mood change or wait until the patient's mood has improved before challenging the dysfunctional beliefs. Cite. (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=h2Idhnt6sJUC&oi=fnd&pg=PA29&dq=%22Beck%22+%22Cognitive+models+of+depression%22+&ots=VHdYOLXtUh&sig=OE9ZEk0LQxJ9oB3RycKg3UsX7-A#v=onepage&q=%22Beck%22%20%22Cognitive%20models%20of%20depression%22&f=false)

The idea that this thread or this judgmental attitude could ''help'' a depressed person is patent bullshit. It is akin to forcefeeding cake to a diabetic. If you don't care, fine, you don't care, but don't run around pretending like your unwarranted meanness is anything other than unwarranted meanness. Don't be fucking ingenuous about it, just admit you're willingly engaging in behaviors known to perpetuate depression in a depressed person.

[Taomist]

There's at least one intelligent, humourous as hell board that also has a forum for folks like the possible-troller; it's over at the Stephen Fry site. In an age where you have a billion boards to whinge on, it's a good idea to pick a board that can at least HELP a little while you're there. Conversely, if a kick in the arse is all that's needed, seeing how bad things can really be for some people, even WITH help, might be a wake-up call.

There are surely a million pages and people out there with similar issues; I just find this board to be entertaining in general; it just happens to have a 'The Secret Life of the Manic-Depressive' forum on it. =P


http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/

[torie]

No, there are posters here who aren't boring whiny wankers. You're not one of those, though.

Who are the ones who aren't boring and wankey, just out of curiosity?

[B. Serum]

Are you Happy? (http://www.typcut.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Areyouhappy_a2_web_1024-600x848.jpg) flowchart

[Lord Ashtar]

Are you Happy? (http://www.typcut.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Areyouhappy_a2_web_1024-600x848.jpg) flowchart

I like that. The only quibble I have is that there should be another arrow from Change Something back to Are You Happy?

[MeanOldLady]

There are too many middle-aged balding beardies and fatties who just want to have a fucking support group on this board as it is.This is the shit that cracks me up about you, ivn. What do you have against beards? Balding fatties, whatever, but what is up with the shots at beards? Weren't you the one who was on about "neck beards" or something of the sort?

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Why do we have to go all detective to find out if the OP is sincere. Who cares? He is offering us fodder for our message boarding. Let's take his word for it as a part of the message boarding experience, as opposed to only offering our huggles if he is indeed depressed. (if one is the type to offer huggles, that is.)

And again, if someone thinks his depression is pathetic, he should be able to take that to the pit without anyone indicating that it might 'push someone over the edge'. Well it might, but then we all can't be expected to post on message boards with the power to push folks over the edge weighing down our fingertips.

If lying on a message board for attention really makes one a troll, I mean if that really is the definition (I've never been certain of the definition) then I strongly suspect at least 50% of all message boarders to be trolls. And I'm grateful for them! They get me through my work day, they do.

What you seem to be saying is that you don't post to this board as a human being, but as something else called a 'message boarder,' to which an entirely different standard of expectation and behavior applies. This, of course, assumes that your response to "real world" pathetic depression is something other than to ask who cares. It's an interesting admission. I'm not deluded, though; I'm not shocked that such an approach might exist, but it does strike me as... suboptimal. I also wonder whether you apply that kind of standard to any other kind of interaction at all. People on the train -- closer to people or to message boarders? On the phone? Cashiers at the grocery store?

For my part, I tend to try to read a message board as a series of messages put there by human beings for the purpose of interacting like human beings. Like, the "OP" has a face, and a place where he or she lives, and farts and pees and has a mother. Every message boarder being a human being, it follows as a pretty logical next step that I should give a shit what effect my posts might have on him. All that is is the absence of sociopathy.

It also makes for a pretty neat definition of a troll, from my perspective. As long as other posters don't violate the assumption that we're all acting like our actual human manifestations to some extent, we're all on the same page. We're interacting like people. Trolls are here to interact like something else. It strikes me that this is a shitty assumption on my part, though. I don't think you're a troll, and yet you're admitting to a perspective that I can't imagine you'd cop to in real life (one that is diametrically opposed, I mean; not just a difference of degree or bombast). I wonder which is the more common on this board.

[B. Serum]

I like that. The only quibble I have is that there should be another arrow from Change Something back to Are You Happy?

Agreed!

[Nzinga, Seated]

What you seem to be saying is that you don't post to this board as a human being, but as something else called a 'message boarder,' to which an entirely different standard of expectation and behavior applies. This, of course, assumes that your response to "real world" pathetic depression is something other than to ask who cares. It's an interesting admission. I'm not deluded, though; I'm not shocked that such an approach might exist, but it does strike me as... suboptimal. I also wonder whether you apply that kind of standard to any other kind of interaction at all. People on the train -- closer to people or to message boarders? On the phone? Cashiers at the grocery store?

For my part, I tend to try to read a message board as a series of messages put there by human beings for the purpose of interacting like human beings. Like, the "OP" has a face, and a place where he or she lives, and farts and pees and has a mother. Every message boarder being a human being, it follows as a pretty logical next step that I should give a shit what effect my posts might have on him. All that is is the absence of sociopathy.

It also makes for a pretty neat definition of a troll, from my perspective. As long as other posters don't violate the assumption that we're all acting like our actual human manifestations to some extent, we're all on the same page. We're interacting like people. Trolls are here to interact like something else. It strikes me that this is a shitty assumption on my part, though. I don't think you're a troll, and yet you're admitting to a perspective that I can't imagine you'd cop to in real life (one that is diametrically opposed, I mean; not just a difference of degree or bombast). I wonder which is the more common on this board.

First of all, you are not the first to call me a troll. I'm starting to wonder if I am one.

Message boarding, for me, means I agree to a set of circumstances that are different from real life. I agree to admit to myself, that there is no way in the world for me to know if a poster that claims to be a 19 year old blond female student, is really a 50 year old fat, bald beardie (that cracks me up, too, MOL).

So I dont' really care that much if blondie is really beardie. I am willing to 'board' with him as if he is her. I'm not going to go out of my way to pin him down on who he is, and if he posts about his period or whatever, I will chime in with my own viewpoint. Who cares. We are just 'messageboarding'...I don't need to know if he really is blondie with a period in order to get in on the conversation.

Most of all, I don't want to feel as if something I said while 'messageboarding' caused someone to jump off a freakin' bridge. Especially when I am doing an activity where I have no clue if the person I am talking to is suicidal beardie, or pms blondie. Fuck that...I'm not doing it. I'm not taking that weight on myself. If it makes me a troll, then answer my riddles three.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

I called you a troll?

Anyway, whether you acknowledge taking the weight on or not, you're doing so. Disclaiming the real-world significance of your actions doesn't actually negate them.

[mswas]

Most of all, I don't want to feel as if something I said while 'messageboarding' caused someone to jump off a freakin' bridge. Especially when I am doing an activity where I have no clue if the person I am talking to is suicidal beardie, or pms blondie. Fuck that...I'm not doing it. I'm not taking that weight on myself. If it makes me a troll, then answer my riddles three.

The reality is that it might. You don't want to feel that way, none of us do, but it just very well might. It's one thing to call someone's political beliefs into question, it's another to poke someone who intimates that they are horribly depressed. There are levels of empathy here. I generally assume that ivn1188 has the stones to take what he dishes out. So he's a fun target, he has placed himself in the position of target and has more or less asked for it, pretty forthrightly. I would be really surprised, shocked and dismayed if I heard that the back and forths with him had triggered anything like that. Would it be our fault if he did that? No, it wouldn't be, as we were just playing the game largely by the rules he agreed to.

Mookieblaylock on the other hand didn't ask for derision, didn't come to the Pit to be derided, and people here are being mean. He said he goes to the Doctor. So how is this any different from saying, "You should be cured of your Myasthenia Gravis already you fucking dipshit!"? The reality is for the most part crybabies are either wired that way, or they have been traumatized or otherwise have learned that this behavior helps them in some way. So, you can be sympathetic or not, but if you are going to poke people who are on the edge, it's very possible that your words could inspire them to hurt themselves.

Would that make you responsible? No, it wouldn't, but you do have a choice as to whether you want to be a positive role in that person's life or a negative one. You make that decision on a day to day basis.

I don't think you're a troll in general, I can't recall ever being overly offended by anything you've said in the past, and I have read your posts and do recognize you as someone I have more than once paid attention to.

But...the letter of the law around here is no so much that you can't 'be' a troll, so much as you can't be honest about it. I think this thread violates the 'don't be a jerk' rule, but I also think this thread needs to be had. The jerks can defend their right to be a jerk, and everyone else can say their piece on that as well. As someone who has not infrequently been a jerk, I think it's a healthy part of the message boarding experience.

From one ACTUAL human being to another. I hope your weekend has treated you well. ;)

[Docta G]

Excluded middle? Have you seen the crap that's been spewed in this thread about Buckety and Chessic? They're bigoted, closed hearted, mean spirited, cruel, potentially mentally ill pricks who pick on the weak to make themselves feel stronger and that's just halfway down page one. Seems one group wants very badly to eliminate any possible middle.

You guys are referring to the fallacy of the false dichotomy. The law of the excluded middle is just a reformulation of the law of non-contradiction (or vice versa):

LoNC: ~(A & ~A)
LoEM: A v ~A

[Indistinguishable]

Well, people use "law of the excluded middle" to mean one thing (the truth of A v ~A, as you say), and "fallacy of the excluded middle" to mean another thing (what's also known as the fallacy of the false dichotomy, as you say).

[Docta G]

Well, people use "law of the excluded middle" to mean one thing (the truth of A v ~A, as you say), and "fallacy of the excluded middle" to mean another thing (what's also known as the fallacy of the false dichotomy, as you say).

Logicians don't.

[Indistinguishable]

*shrugs*. I'm a logician and I see no problem with it. It's just names, and they're definitely all in demonstrated use.

[Docta G]

*shrugs*. I'm a logician and I see no problem with it. It's just names, and they're definitely all in demonstrated use.

I'm a logician too. *shrugs*

[Indistinguishable]

Glad we're agreed, then. :)

[Docta G]

Glad we're agreed, then. :)

At most we agree we're both logicians. ;)

[Indistinguishable]

And that we shrug!

As for the issue on which we apparently disagree, what's the harm in allowing people to describe in ordinary language a fallacy which is naturally described as excluding a middle as "the fallacy of the excluded middle", particularly given that people have been doing it for ages?

Well, whatever. I can't imagine anything fruitful coming from carrying this on. If you think people should stop speaking that way and I don't, we're left at that.

[billfish678]

Well, whatever. I can't imagine anything fruitful coming from carrying this on. If you think people should stop speaking that way and I don't, we're left at that.

I guess there is no chance you guys could meet....uh..something like..uhhh..."halfway" :)

[Docta G]

And that we shrug!

As for the issue on which we apparently disagree, what's the harm in allowing people to describe in ordinary language a fallacy which is naturally described as excluding a middle as "the fallacy of the excluded middle", particularly given that people have been doing it for ages?

Well, there is the possibility of confusion and perhaps even equivocation. I like to be unambiguous when talking about logical principles. Yes, I knew what was intended, but the pedant in me prefers less obfuscating language.

Have you seen that test on Facebook, Which Logical System Are you?? It's pretty funny.

In any case, I return the reader to his/her regularly scheduled rant.

[Docta G]

I guess there is no chance you guys could meet....uh..something like..uhhh..."halfway" :)

That possibility has been excluded.

[Indistinguishable]

I guess there is no chance you guys could meet....uh..something like..uhhh..."halfway" :)
:D

[Nzinga, Seated]

Would that make you responsible? No, it wouldn't,

This is the golden ticket for me right here.

Listen, there are dopers on this board that I feel pretty sure are on the up and up about who they are.

But peep this; even if I make some kind of a 'connection' with a doper...if they talk about something really, really heavy, then I will make the jump from message boarder to 'real true blue person with feelings' and send a PM. I've done that plenty of times. Because I don't really feel that cool with posting, "Sorry your husband died" or "Sorry a divorce is ripping your life apart" in the 'message boarding' world.

[mswas]

This is the golden ticket for me right here.

Listen, there are dopers on this board that I feel pretty sure are on the up and up about who they are.

But peep this; even if I make some kind of a 'connection' with a doper...if they talk about something really, really heavy, then I will make the jump from message boarder to 'real true blue person with feelings' and send a PM. I've done that plenty of times. Because I don't really feel that cool with posting, "Sorry your husband died" or "Sorry a divorce is ripping your life apart" in the 'message boarding' world.

Well the way I see this thread is if someone is going through a divorce, starting a pit thread to tell them what a loser they are for getting divorced.

No, it's not your responsibility how other people act, just as it really wouldn't be your responsibility utimately if you saw a guy on a bridge getting ready to jump and you said, "Just do it pansy, the world could use one less crybaby.", it still wouldn't be your fault, but gosh you'd be a raging asshole for doing so.

[elbows]

'peep this' ????

What the devil does this mean?

I thought 'peeps' meant people.

You kids today and your lingo, who can keep up?

[mswas]

'peep this' ????

What the devil does this mean?

I thought 'peeps' meant people.

You kids today and your lingo, who can keep up?

It means, 'Look at this', like looking through a 'peep' hole, which I think is a term you used back in your day, Grandpa.

[elbows]

That's Grandma to you, and get the hell off my lawn!

[Nzinga, Seated]

'peep this' ????

What the devil does this mean?

I thought 'peeps' meant people.

You kids today and your lingo, who can keep up?

Looky-here, blood, just cause you can't dig my rap, don't mean my rap is no kiddie thang. It just be that jive you aint hip to. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRDOp6zypbM)

[Hello Again]

Looky-here, blood, just cause you can't dig my rap, don't mean my rap is no kiddie thang. It just be that jive you aint hip to. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRDOp6zypbM)

Excuse me stewardess, I speak Jive.

[billfish678]

Excuse me stewardess, I speak Jive.

I ate the fish, so don't look at me...for I am not long for this world and will soon shed this mortal coil.

[ivn1188]

This is the shit that cracks me up about you, ivn. What do you have against beards? Balding fatties, whatever, but what is up with the shots at beards? Weren't you the one who was on about "neck beards" or something of the sort?

No, that was SmashTheState, I think.

Beards killed my family. Now I'm out for revenge.

[bucketybuck]

Well the way I see this thread is if someone is going through a divorce, starting a pit thread to tell them what a loser they are for getting divorced.

No, it's not your responsibility how other people act, just as it really wouldn't be your responsibility utimately if you saw a guy on a bridge getting ready to jump and you said, "Just do it pansy, the world could use one less crybaby.", it still wouldn't be your fault, but gosh you'd be a raging asshole for doing so.

Its a nasty world, but if twenty people try to take your hand and lead you down from that bridge, but instead you sit there for two days saying, "I'm gonna jump, I'm gonna do it", somebody will eventually say, "just fucking do it already".

[toodlepip]

...like so. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8064867.stm)

[faithfool]

I'm sure I'm a wanker and a buttertoll (??), but regardless, I'm thrilled that I didn't get called a troll or treated like the OP thinks I should've during my many bouts with suicidal mental illness that I've brought on the boards. Of course like mookie, I was getting help and maybe to some people's eyes (or maybe not), that makes all the difference. But it still took my 13 years anyway to get my life back and I don't know how successful I'd've been if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers here on the Dope.

So thank you to those who gave me a hand up and a virtual hug. Life was difficult enough without dealing with something like this too.

[mookieblaylock]

Wow, lol.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just had to post a reply.

There was far more to what was wrong with me then a lack of female companionship, believe me. That was just all I felt like admitting to strangers on the internet. I was depressed when I made that thread and needed to reach out somewhere. I replied the way because my perceptions were distorted by what is a mental illness. Don't lump me in the same category as a teen who took all his mom's pills over bad grades. There was no troll bait involved, although let me just say the fact that you wrote that much about some "pussy" on the internet that you don't really know says far more about you then me

Also, you made the assumption that I'm a shut in loner and a virgin. Neither are true. I wouldn't be depressed that way because then the solution to my problem would be easy to figure out, now would it? Now that I can say I've never been better, I can tell you that the solution was far more difficult than what you proposed. Not that I figured you were qualified to suggest such a treatment plan in the first place.

Oh, and that Australian expression? That wasn't spoken by a rugby team, was it? I happen to play that same sport and just last week I destroyed an Australian halfback. Harden the fuck up indeed. If you want proof I'm not a pussy just ask my insurance company, I'm currently at risk of being dropped by them because I've been hurt way too much on the field.

So yeah, the point is don't talk shit about stuff you don't know anything about.

[mookieblaylock]

However, I will admit that you're not entirely without merit. Treatment works wonders, but sometimes someone needs a kick in the ass, because they need to know how they are making others feel. Believe me, I got mine and I felt bad about for the longest time. But I've suffered enough from it and I'm moving on.

It was selfish of me to make such a topic and I am sorry. Depression distorts your perception of yourself and that can result in stupid actions such as what I did, but I cannot use that as a reason to dodge responsibility for my actions. It was a mistake, and we all make them.

Now piss off.

[Martini Enfield]

Oh, and that Australian expression? That wasn't spoken by a rugby team, was it? I happen to play that same sport and just last week I destroyed an Australian halfback. Harden the fuck up indeed. If you want proof I'm not a pussy just ask my insurance company, I'm currently at risk of being dropped by them because I've been hurt way too much on the field.

So yeah, the point is don't talk shit about stuff you don't know anything about.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight and wish you all the best in your struggles against whatever personal problems you're facing- but I will mention that "Harden The Fuck Up" is a phrase in common parlance amongst a large cross-section of Australian society and- depending on context- it can mean anything from "Shut the fuck up, stop crying about it, and deal with it" to "QQ more, n00b". It's not generally a comment on one's physical state, but more a fairly direct way of saying "Crying about it won't make it better", FWIW.

[Miller]

Closed.