Why don't video games have an "old fart" mode?

[levdrakon]

I was just wondering. I'm 45 years old. I played arcade games in my youth, and console & computer games in adulthood. I've grown up playing video games, for all practical purposes.

I can see why old farts today might not care about video games as much. It was fairly easy to just ignore the whole phenomenon if you wished.

But me? I want to play Resident Evil 20 when I'm old and decrepit. It will be ridiculously difficult for me most likely. Actually, most likely it will be impossible. Unless they make an "old fart" mode, where you can choose to play the game reeeally slow, if you have to.

Is it that hard to implement? Why aren't they doing it? When will they start, if ever?

Are they just going to blow off us aging late baby boomers/early Gen X-ers?

[MyFootsZZZ]

In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if you die a certain number of times, you can jump on a blue block that takes over for you, (I think you can kick back in at any time), I never used it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it in other Wii tittles as well. I've heard of people useing it, and likeing it as an option.

[gazpacho]

The blueblock thing in Super Mario Brothers does not complete the level for you. It shows you how you can complete it. It is like watching someone on you tube completing the level.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

There's already an "Easy" mode. There should also be a "Hit a button and win a game" mode?

Video games are harder for you (not you specifically, a general "you") because you haven't been playing them. Tinker and dabble and it won't be as hard.

Not playing video games of any variety is going to be atypical pretty soon.

[MyFootsZZZ]

The blueblock thing in Super Mario Brothers does not complete the level for you. It shows you how you can complete it. It is like watching someone on you tube completing the level.

Oh, sorry then. :X

[Rigamarole]

There's already an "Easy" mode.

Exactly. The much disparaged EZMODE is already pretty remedial. If you're having trouble on ezmode, it might be time to give it up.

[BrandonR]

My father (who is in his 50s) got a Xbox 360 for Christmas and it was downright painful to watch him play. His biggest hurdle was the controller and not reading the damn prompts on the screen that very clearly told him what to do. He eventually got better but it just takes some dedication (like learning anything new I suppose).

I think part of the reason there's not a super-easy mode for old timers is because they generally don't play video games in the first place, and those that do are likely to be familiar enough with video games to not require such a mode. It's not very common for someone with little to no experience with video games to want to pick up and play a "serious" game like Resident Evil (versus the "casual" games found everywhere online).

[levdrakon]

There's already an "Easy" mode. There should also be a "Hit a button and win a game" mode?Resident Evil 4 had "normal" and "hard." I played both. Where's the easy mode? You expect me to go out and buy a cheat system? Why can't I play the game on "easier" when I'm fucking 80 years old? Sounds like you're about 1 step away from saying "video games aren't for losers, loser! Don't play if you can't hang!"

Nice.

[borschevsky]

The blueblock thing in Super Mario Brothers does not complete the level for you. It shows you how you can complete it. It is like watching someone on you tube completing the level.It does let you skip past the level, though. Also the block is green :).

[Red Barchetta]

The blueblock thing in Super Mario Brothers does not complete the level for you. It shows you how you can complete it. It is like watching someone on you tube completing the level.

Umm, no. It DOES complete the level for you. In fact, you can even take control of the character at any point during the 'video' and play through that way as well. Either way, you'll skip past it.

[gazpacho]

I will have to fire up the old wii tonight and play with my usual skill I should get the block soon enough.

[Troy McClure SF]

Why can't I play the game on "easier" when I'm fucking 80 years old?

You can. It's not the publisher's fault if you suck at it, for whatever reason.

[Trepa Mayfield]

You can. It's not the publisher's fault if you suck at it, for whatever reason.

Did you actually read the post you were responding to?

[Duke]

I honestly thought today's games were easier. I mean, I kept hearing how hard New Super Mario Bros. Wii was, but it's not like it's Contra (without the Contra code, of course) or anything like that.

Seriously, the new games have unlimited death! Unlimited death! In NetHack, when you died once, the game was OVER*! Some games even have easy mode AND unlimited death. You never had that when I was a lad! If you think today's games are easy, try playing Battletoads or ZAngband or Ghosts and Goblins, son. You'll never complain that new games are hardcore again, ever.

*Unless you had an amulet of life giving. Which was very hard to find early on when you had the biggest risk of death. But if you died with it on, it freakin' disappeared, so if some massive monster was attacking you, it could kill you twice in one turn.

[BobArrgh]

Who cares why a person might want an EASY mode? They don't have to be 80 to want or need such a mode.

I am 47 and have to wear reading glasses, but I don't wear them to watch TV. However, the way things are right now, reading things on the TV is getting pretty difficult. I used to love watching poker on TV, but now I don't watch it very much, because (from across the room) I can't see a player's hole cards.

Video games can provide all sorts of benefits for players other than the target demographics of 18-35. I think there are studies showing that hand/eye coordination and memory are just two things that can be improved by video games.

And it isn't just the elderly who might benefit from a super-slow mode. Consider a young person who is recovering from an accident.

This is an area that gaming companies might want to examine.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Who cares why a person might want an EASY mode? They don't have to be 80 to want or need such a mode.

I am 47 and have to wear reading glasses, but I don't wear them to watch TV. However, the way things are right now, reading things on the TV is getting pretty difficult. I used to love watching poker on TV, but now I don't watch it very much, because (from across the room) I can't see a player's hole cards.

Video games can provide all sorts of benefits for players other than the target demographics of 18-35. I think there are studies showing that hand/eye coordination and memory are just two things that can be improved by video games.

And it isn't just the elderly who might benefit from a super-slow mode. Consider a young person who is recovering from an accident.

This is an area that gaming companies might want to examine.

That's also time to develop it for a product that's a niche product at best. I'd like to be shown wrong, though.

[levdrakon]

That's also time to develop it for a product that's a niche product at best. I'd like to be shown wrong, though.I wouldn't call an aging Gen X gaming generation a "niche market."

We aren't going to be selling video games to 60 years olds who have never played before. We're going to be (hopefully) selling games to sixty year olds who have already been playing and spending money on it for 30, 40, 50 years etc.

[BrandonR]

We aren't going to be selling video games to 60 years olds who have never played before. We're going to be (hopefully) selling games to sixty year olds who have already been playing and spending money on it for 30, 40, 50 years etc.

If they've been playing video games that long, then the game's "easy" difficulty should serve them well.

[Inner Stickler]

Maybe. You don't know how arthritis, vision problems and slowed response times will affect even gamers. If there's already a market clamoring for a product then perhaps it's something the gaming industry should look into. But telling them that enough concessions have already been made is tacky. What is it to you if the designers add an easier format. Just don't play that format.

[don't ask]

The trick is to only play games against young kids and only play games that they haven't played before. Sometimes it takes them hours before they are crushing you like a bug. Then start looking for a new game.

[BrandonR]

Maybe. You don't know how arthritis, vision problems and slowed response times will affect even gamers. If there's already a market clamoring for a product then perhaps it's something the gaming industry should look into. But telling them that enough concessions have already been made is tacky. What is it to you if the designers add an easier format. Just don't play that format.

Well it's nothing to me, but to add another mode into gameplay isn't always as easy as tweaking a few lines of code. It can take a lot of time and money for the developer, and for what? Today very few older folk play serious video games, and while I suppose it could change in the future, I don't see it changing so drastically that we have elders lining up in wheelchairs and walkers waiting for Halo 8 or Final Fantasy 34.

I think it comes down to not wanting to waste the time or money creating a special super-easy difficulty to sell what would likely amount to a minuscule additional number of copies.

[Ellen Cherry]

Today very few older folk play serious video games, and while I suppose it could change in the future, I don't see it changing so drastically that we have elders lining up in wheelchairs and walkers waiting for Halo 8 or Final Fantasy 34.


:confused:

In the future who do you think these old folks are going to be, is the point. Do you plan to start listening to big band music and reminiscing about World War II and the homefront when you hit 70?

[BrandonR]

:confused:

In the future who do you think these old folks are going to be, is the point. Do you plan to start listening to big band music and reminiscing about World War II and the homefront when you hit 70?

Tastes change as you get older. Even I play fewer video games than when I was younger as I have other stuff going on. I'm just not sure it's fair to say that the next generation of elderly people are going to be as video game crazy as the teens of today are.

And still, if the elderly people of the future want to play video games, chances are they'll already have had a good grasp on video games and wouldn't need a super-easy mode (which I understand to be for old folks who are relatively new to video games). But who knows, maybe there will emerge a big niche for elderly gaming...

[Airk]

Bayonetta does have this mode. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDlrbshsVw).

That said, I think the protests against easier modes is ridiculous. Including the "it'd sell a miniscule amount of copies" argument. You don't know how many copies it'd sell, and here's a "little known" fact: TONS more people -don't- play "regular" video games than do. (The "regular adjective is here to preemptively eliminate people citing games like Bejeweled or Mafia Wars and claiming that ka-zillions of people play games every day.) Let me re-iterate that for you. Videogames, in the traditional sense, are still a niche market. Anything that can be done to -expand- that niche, so long as it doesn't compromise what games are about, is likely to be a boon to the industry. Observe, the Wii. Now, how many of the people who are not playing games are not playing them because they're just too hard? Certainly not all of them, but even a small fraction of a really big number is a substantial growth area for the gaming industry. I know I know a few of these people personally.

Seriously. Stop and look at a modern controller. (http://www.asia-product.com/images/ps3_controller.jpg) Just look at it. (http://www.walyou.com/img/xbox-360-controller-recovers-stolen-console.jpg) It has two analogue sticks, at least one D-pad, 4 shoulder buttons, four 'traditional' buttons, and some random crap in the middle that may or may not involve "start" "select" and a logo. Now think back to what controllers looked like when you started playing games. It may have been something like this. (http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/2/Nes_Controller.jpg) You may notice some difference in complexity.

So. To reiterate, modern games are hard, and complex to the point where people feel excluded and/or unwilling to put in the time they feel is necessary to learn to do it. Lots of gamers (including myself) would love to play games with other people/share our hobby, but -can't- to some extent because of the learning curve. Some Developers (Frequently independent ones, though there's also Nintendo. And Rock Band.) are starting to figure this out. (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26386/Analysis_Game_Design_Accessibility_Matters.php).

And you're trying to argue that adding an easier mode (note: Not all games even come with an "easy" mode) would be -bad-? I question your reasoning, sir.

[HorseloverFat]

I think part of the reason there's not a super-easy mode for old timers is because they generally don't play video games in the first place, and those that do are likely to be familiar enough with video games to not require such a mode.

Im a PC gamer who occasionally gets into consoles and everytime I pick up a console controller I'm pretty much floored at the layout. I cant imagine someone new to this enjoying the console experience. "No Dad, the button at the top is called the bottom button! Hold that and B to arm your grenade and release the top button to launch it!"

Ugh, there's something to be said about the simplicity of the mouse and keyboard combo and the ability to hit Esc > Setttings and see what they keys are mapped to.

but -can't- to some extent because of the learning curve.

Maybe on the console but on the PC you have tons of options. I just bought Torchlight for like 5 dollars on steam. Very, very simple control scheme. PC FPS games tend to use the was WASD key commands. Its really pretty simple.

I also disagree that console games are hard. Theyre just in need of more options and more buttons. The games themselves are pretty easy. I rent some of the more popular ones, fly through the levels, and get bored with it pretty quickly. Old games are actually the hardest. Try playing Donkey Kong Jr or Ms Pac Man. You'll maybe get to level 3 after an hour of practice. An hour spent in a modern game is all advancement and reward.

[Airk]

Im a PC gamer who occasionally gets into consoles and everytime I pick up a console controller I'm pretty much floored at the layout. I cant imagine someone new to this enjoying the console experience. "No Dad, the button at the top is called the bottom button! Hold that and B to arm your grenade and release the top button to launch it!"

Ugh, there's something to be said about the simplicity of the mouse and keyboard combo and the ability to hit Esc > Setttings and see what they keys are mapped to.



Maybe on the console but on the PC you have tons of options. I just bought Torchlight for like 5 dollars on steam. Very, very simple control scheme. PC FPS games tend to use the was WASD key commands. Its really pretty simple.

I also disagree that console games are hard. Theyre just in need of more options and more buttons. The games themselves are pretty easy. I rent some of the more popular ones, fly through the levels, and get bored with it pretty quickly. Old games are actually the hardest. Try playing Donkey Kong Jr or Ms Pac Man. You'll maybe get to level 3 after an hour of practice. An hour spent in a modern game is all advancement and reward.

Wait, wait. First you say "Hold B to arm your grenade and then release the button to launch it" and then you say that they're not too hard?

What would be better? "Yeah! Just point in the right direction and press Shift-G for grenade?" Sorry, but games of comparable complexity on the PC are just as bad if not worse. Your Torchlight example doesn't help your cause. I could just point you to 'Splosion Man - where all the buttons do the same thing and then compare it to, say, the control scheme of oh, just because I'm being a jerk, Freespace 2, which used darn near every button on the keyboard, or, heck, most MMOs, and you're right back where you started. Perhaps you're expecting the controls in Crysis 2 to be nice and simple? Splinter Cell: Conviction? Yeah, I'm sure those will be the -model- of simple and elegant control schemes. Heck, have you ever even tried explaining WASD+Mouselook to a non gamer and then watched them try to do it?

Games. Are. Complex. And also, generally, unintuitive. If you can't grasp that, and the fact that games which are less complex and more intuitive (Lego games, Guitar Hero, Wii titles) tend to -sell- better, then, well, I don't really see how we can have a discussion.

[Airk]

And while I think of it, PCs have another learning curve/sharing the fun obstacle. It's really, really hard to cram two people around a PC so one can "show the other the ropes". You end up with an annoying sort of "backseat gaming" - "no no, look, let me..." etc.

On a console, at least, multiple players actually being present in the room is a viable possibility.

[BrandonR]

Seriously. Stop and look at a modern controller. (http://www.asia-product.com/images/ps3_controller.jpg) Just look at it. (http://www.walyou.com/img/xbox-360-controller-recovers-stolen-console.jpg) It has two analogue sticks, at least one D-pad, 4 shoulder buttons, four 'traditional' buttons, and some random crap in the middle that may or may not involve "start" "select" and a logo. Now think back to what controllers looked like when you started playing games. It may have been something like this. (http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/2/Nes_Controller.jpg) You may notice some difference in complexity.

Im a PC gamer who occasionally gets into consoles and everytime I pick up a console controller I'm pretty much floored at the layout. I cant imagine someone new to this enjoying the console experience. "No Dad, the button at the top is called the bottom button! Hold that and B to arm your grenade and release the top button to launch it!"

See, getting the hang of the Xbox 360 controller was where my father struggled as well. Of course, a super-easy difficulty mode isn't going to help if it's learning the controller's buttons that you're having trouble with...


And you're trying to argue that adding an easier mode (note: Not all games even come with an "easy" mode) would be -bad-? I question your reasoning, sir.

Not bad, but not necessary either. I gather you're trying to say that if video games had "old fart" modes, that old people who otherwise wouldn't play the video game would. I don't buy that argument. My grandmother, who is on Facebook and quite content at playing casual word games online, isn't going to ever pick up a Call of Duty game and start fragging, regardless of how simple they make it. Sure, a few will, but I question the cost versus benefit of that proposition. Making a super-easy mode would likely have more instruction and have to guide the player through everything (even more so than the normal tutorial). That could take a lot more effort on the development end, and to just attract a few more players?


Ugh, there's something to be said about the simplicity of the mouse and keyboard combo and the ability to hit Esc > Setttings and see what they keys are mapped to.

You can do that in just about every console game too (although it's Start button -> Settings -> Controls).

[HorseloverFat]

Wait, wait. First you say "Hold B to arm your grenade and then release the button to launch it" and then you say that they're not too hard?

Theres a difference between learning the interface and the difficultly of the game.

Sorry, but games of comparable complexity on the PC are just as bad if not worse. Your Torchlight example doesn't help your cause. I could just point you to 'Splosion Man - where all the buttons do the same thing and then compare it to, say, the control scheme of oh, just because I'm being a jerk, Freespace 2, which used darn near every button on the keyboard, or, heck, most MMOs, and you're right back where you started.

No, my point is that the PC gaming ecosystem is much more varied than the console one. I can play a dumb flash game or the most complex strategy game. Perhaps your dad cant handle Battlefield 2 but he can handle Torchlight or King's Bounty. On top of it he can get those games for next to nothing via services like Steam. He can download free demos (no paying for gold membership) and try them out. I also find the PC world is saner with its control schemes because youre not holding anything and are using a physical interface you already have experience with.

To each his own, but I had to get my dad started on gaming Id probably get him going with Flash games and go from there as opposed to handing him a console controller and a copy of Halo II.


Games. Are. Complex. And also, generally, unintuitive

The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Either you put in the effort to learn the interface or you dont. Games arent that complex. A FPS is the same formula put through different levels, guns, etc. All the MMOs are almost exactly the same. Children fly through these games. Youre really overselling the complexity argument.


then, well, I don't really see how we can have a discussion.

Cant handle opinions that arent yours eh?

[Airk]

Theres a difference between learning the interface and the difficultly of the game.

Yes. But together they form a barrier to entry. Raise either one too high and you get the same result - people saying "screw this, this is too hard".

It's like saying "there's a difference between teaching people to pole vault and teaching them to pole vault HIGH". It's true, but it doesn't mean that teaching people to pole vault is easy.

No, my point is that the PC gaming ecosystem is much more varied than the console one. I can play a dumb flash game or the most complex strategy game. Perhaps your dad cant handle Battlefield 2 but he can handle Torchlight or King's Bounty.

I think your lack of console experience is showing here. There are lots of simple games on consoles. It's easier to teach Katamari Damacy than King's Bounty, I can assure you. It's easier to teach Geometry Wars than Torchlight.

On top of it he can get those games for next to nothing via services like Steam.

As opposed to getting lots of games for next to nothing via the no-need-to-install and already built into your hardware options of XBLA or PSN? Again, you sound inexperienced with the console scene here.

He can download free demos (no paying for gold membership) and try them out.

Inexperienced with the console scene. Demos do not require a gold membership except for the very occasional "exclusive" which just means "It'll be available to everyone next week". In fact, no game downloads require a gold membership. Gold membership is for multiplayer and chat functions only. And not even required on a PS3. :P

And really, when you get down to it, acquiring new games and playing demos is such a TINY PART of the reason most people don't participate in this hobby that I'm tempted to accuse you of trying to hijack the thread by attempting to treat it as relevant to the discussion.


I also find the PC world is saner with its control schemes because youre not holding anything and are using a physical interface you already have experience with.

Because "holding something" was a definite barrier to entry for the Wii and Guitar Hero? And yes, you're using something you're already 'familiar' with, but you're a technical user. Every time I teach my mom to perform a new task with the mouse, it's a whole new experience. It's like she learns 'recipes' for how to do things with the PC. She commits to memory the steps, but they don't really -translate- into anything else.


To each his own, but I had to get my dad started on gaming Id probably get him going with Flash games and go from there as opposed to handing him a console controller and a copy of Halo II.

And you'd be right. But sadly, learning to play that flash game is never going to help me if I'd like to get him to play the games I'm playing. That's the point I was trying to make earlier. It's all well and good to say "I'm glad you're enjoying Bejewelled" but it's not like that's some sort of stepping stone that's going to help me find a new person to play Castle Crashers with.


The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Either you put in the effort to learn the interface or you dont. Games arent that complex. A FPS is the same formula put through different levels, guns, etc.

Again; You're missing the point. I bet you played Doom. You've been doing this forever and have had a chance to pick it up in bits and pieces. Learning the formula is REALLY HARD for most people. That's why games are a tiny niche.


All the MMOs are almost exactly the same. Children fly through these games. Youre really overselling the complexity argument.

No, you're just incapable of thinking of the issue from the perspective of someone who hasn't experienced these things.

And yes, "children pick this stuff up"; Children also pick up foreign languages really easily. That doesn't mean foreign languages are easy for most people. The brain just works differently when you're under 12.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Once us GenXers hit our 70's and 80's, games will be played with our minds, rendering the controllers irrelevant, so it won't matter. The trick then will be avoiding Alzheimer's so you can still play.

[Airk]

Look at it like this. I think we can assume that anyone new to a genre is going to take some time to pick up how the controls work - whether they be WASD, right click to move, or push B to jump. We'll call this amount of time X.

Which game is more likely to encourage the player to continue to play and learn: The one that kills him 15 times during X, each time erasing all his progress and sending him back to where he started unless he has somehow managed to pass a 'checkpoint'. Or a game perhaps 'kills' him only once, with minimal penalties and no loss of progress?

Which game is more likely to catch his interest? One that deluges him with a "spreadsheet" full of "stats" and items as soon as he starts it up, or one that introduces him to core concepts gradually?

Game designers have been figuring this stuff out slowly over the last few years. Sadly, a lot of gamers haven't.

[Max Torque]

In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if you die a certain number of times, you can jump on a blue block that takes over for you, (I think you can kick back in at any time), I never used it, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it in other Wii tittles as well. I've heard of people useing it, and likeing it as an option.

The Xbox Live Arcade game Splosion Man has the funniest such thing I've seen: after trying and failing a certain number of times, the game offers you the option to go "The Way of the Coward". If you accept, you are teleported to the next level, and your character will have to wear a frilly pink tutu until you complete the level without assistance.

[Hamlet]

Once us GenXers hit our 70's and 80's, games will be played with our minds, rendering the controllers irrelevant, so it won't matter. The trick then will be avoiding Alzheimer's so you can still play.Avoiding what?

Now where did my pants go?

[HorseloverFat]

Learning the formula is REALLY HARD for most people. That's why games are a tiny niche.

Oh, come on. The formula is simple. The niche is small because shooting demons in a video game only appeals to x amount of people. Using a bedazzler (https://www.mybedazzler.com/Default.aspx?mid=523535) isnt hard, but I dont feel a need to jazz up my phone.

Because "holding something" was a definite barrier to entry for the Wii and Guitar Hero?

Oh it sure is. Most people take severl rounds before theyre remotely comfortable with the interface. This is true of all interfaces.

Yes. But together they form a barrier to entry. Raise either one too high and you get the same result - people saying "screw this, this is too hard".

You need to learn some kind of interface. If you are completely unwilling then these types of games arent for you. Its like saying we should make an old fart car with a button that says "Go to shopping mall, buy pants, and go home" because cranky old men cant be bothered to do the individual steps on their own.

I think your lack of console experience is showing here. There are lots of simple games on consoles. It's easier to teach Katamari Damacy than King's Bounty, I can assure you. It's easier to teach Geometry Wars than Torchlight.

Im not going to sit here and list a million easy PC games. There are more games for the PC than the consoles. Period.

nd you'd be right. But sadly, learning to play that flash game is never going to help me if I'd like to get him to play the games I'm playing.

I disagree. There are fun litle FPS games that you can use as a stepping stone. There are fun little MMO-type games made in flash. All sorts of little things that cost little or even nothing that can be experienced by the casual gamer. Whether or not it leads them to all night sessions playing WoW doesnt matter. Its besides the point. Casual gamers have many more options on the PC and because of the richer ecology are better off with it than trying to compete with the fragfest consoletards love to play. The millions of Wiis sitting around collecting dust are a testament to this.

[levdrakon]

You need to learn some kind of interface. If you are completely unwilling then these types of games arent for you. Its like saying we should make an old fart car with a button that says "Go to shopping mall, buy pants, and go home" because cranky old men cant be bothered to do the individual steps on their own.Sorry, but that's silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier. Maybe you think only professional race car drivers should be allowed to drive, because "real" driving only occurs at 200MPH. If you can't hang, don't drive! How nice for you. Me? I don't mind power windows, power steering, anti-lock brakes, a rearview camera, GPS nav, etc, etc. C'mon now! :mad::)

[HorseloverFat]

Not to mention, if easy is too hard for the "old fart" demographic, then they are simply playing the wrong games. If a game's difficultly is in its reaction times then slowing it down is simply cheating, which is fine but dont blame game designers for not making this mode standard. Pick games where speed isnt an issue like a strategy game or something turn based.

[HorseloverFat]

>Sorry, but that's silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier.

My point is that there are acceptable limits of compromise. A car with one button to buy pants? No, thats ridiculous. Taking public transportation with a friend who can help you buy pants? Thats a win. Expecting a slow mode by default in games is like expecting a one button car.

[levdrakon]

>Sorry, but that's silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier.

My point is that there are acceptable limits of compromise. A car with one button to buy pants? No, thats ridiculous. Taking public transportation with a friend who can help you buy pants? Thats a win. Expecting a slow mode by default in games is like expecting a one button car.I can't speak for others, but I'm not asking for a button that will play the game for me.

if you want to play with the big boys and prove what a bad-ass you are, then by all means join a tournament and prove yourself against the world's best. Put the proof on YouTube. Most gamers don't aspire to be world-class competitors, and games wouldn't sell very well if you had to be that good to get through it.

[Airk]

>Sorry, but that's silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier.

My point is that there are acceptable limits of compromise. A car with one button to buy pants? No, thats ridiculous. Taking public transportation with a friend who can help you buy pants? Thats a win. Expecting a slow mode by default in games is like expecting a one button car.

Why? Where are the power brakes? The power steering equivalents? Why -can't- there be features like this? Because it'd be "cheating"? New flash, sir, but these are single player games we're talking about here. No one is diminishing your gaming experience by putting in a 'super easy mode' any more than the existance of GameShark style devices already is, or any more than someone rearranging the cards when they start to lose at solitaire is 'cheating'. This isn't a moral argument, it's about people having fun.

What -is- your problem with offering games in an extra easy mode? Seriously. Dispense with the semantics and the side arguements and tell us why you feel it would be inappropriate?

(Frankly, I'd love a one button car. I -hate- to drive, but sometimes I have to do it.)

[HorseloverFat]

My point is a one button car isnt feasible the same way demanding slow down options in all games isnt particularly practical or a feature needed by most people. If the game is too hard then look into cheating options or focus on games with liberal cheat features. The cheats on Torchlight are pretty liberal (http://www.cheatscodesguides.com/pc-cheats/torchlight/) and the PC platform has a lot more cheats than the locked-down console world. If anything the root issue is that consoles are so locked down, you cant screw around with them like you can PCs. Like I wrote earlier, the PC platform allows for these things better than the console world, generally.

if you want to play with the big boys and prove what a bad-ass you are, then by all means join a tournament and prove yourself against the world's best. Put the proof on YouTube. Most gamers don't aspire to be world-class competitors, and games wouldn't sell very well if you had to be that good to get through it.
If the game is too hard in easy mode and with cheats then thats not the game for you.
I can't speak for others, but I'm not asking for a button that will play the game for me.Easy mode and cheats (which is what slowing down games is) IS practically a one button solution.

[HorseloverFat]

Oh, Im using Torchlight and King's Bounty as examples because I am currently playing them and in KB am using what the OP calls "old fart" mode. That is to say I use cheats when I dont or cant finish the zone/boss/whatever.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Resident Evil 4 had "normal" and "hard." I played both. Where's the easy mode? You expect me to go out and buy a cheat system? Why can't I play the game on "easier" when I'm fucking 80 years old? Sounds like you're about 1 step away from saying "video games aren't for losers, loser! Don't play if you can't hang!"

Nice.

Yes and no, but next time, please choose tastier worse to shove in my mouth. My girlfriend's brother played Left 4 Dead on my 360. He has played video games his whole life, but never a controller with two thumbsticks. It took a little bit of practice, but then he got it.

It's all about familiarity and proficiency.

[levdrakon]

Yes and no, but next time, please choose tastier worse to shove in my mouth. My girlfriend's brother played Left 4 Dead on my 360. He has played video games his whole life, but never a controller with two thumbsticks. It took a little bit of practice, but then he got it.

It's all about familiarity and proficiency.You're the one who said "There's already an "Easy" mode. There should also be a "Hit a button and win a game" mode?"

Who asked for that? And you still haven't told me where the "easy" button is in RE4. There are "normal" and "hard" buttons so obviously the technology to build in different difficulty levels isn't rocket surgery. In RE4, I seem to recall there was a feature built into it that tried to gauge how hard of a time you were having during the first level, and quietly and invisibly altered the game-play a bit for you. Cheating!!!!

I don't see it that way. Look, you can make a game hard for little kids because if you wait six months, they're going to tearing up that game. But an aging population of gamers is going to reach a point where no amount of practice or experience is going to enable them to physically mash five separate buttons and perform an advanced series of moves all in .5 seconds in order to beat the boss. So give us a whole second. Or two seconds in order to pull off that advanced move required to beat the boss.

[Troy McClure SF]

Did you actually read the post you were responding to?

Yes. Point still stands, though. My roomates have a PS3 and I suck at all those games, but I don't expect EA to re-develop all their games for me.

[Thudlow Boink]

It's all about familiarity and proficiency.But the OP isn't about people who are unfamiliar with video games. The OP is about people who have played video games all their lives, but, with age, their reflexes get slower, and they'll want something they can still play with their diminished reaction time or vision or manual dexterity.

[levdrakon]

You can. It's not the publisher's fault if you suck at it, for whatever reason.Right, and Hollywood shouldn't waste time on subtitles and captioning, because if you can't hear, you suck. Not their fault.

That's a wonderful business plan!

[Least Original User Name Ever]

You're the one who said "There's already an "Easy" mode. There should also be a "Hit a button and win a game" mode?"

Who asked for that? And you still haven't told me where the "easy" button is in RE4. There are "normal" and "hard" buttons so obviously the technology to build in different difficulty levels isn't rocket surgery. In RE4, I seem to recall there was a feature built into it that tried to gauge how hard of a time you were having during the first level, and quietly and invisibly altered the game-play a bit for you. Cheating!!!!

I don't see it that way. Look, you can make a game hard for little kids because if you wait six months, they're going to tearing up that game. But an aging population of gamers is going to reach a point where no amount of practice or experience is going to enable them to physically mash five separate buttons and perform an advanced series of moves all in .5 seconds in order to beat the boss. So give us a whole second. Or two seconds in order to pull off that advanced move required to beat the boss.

But the desire for that product is such a small niche, correct?

On one hand, people shouldn't be written off. If they want to use your product, you should get it into their hands. Would it create more work than it's worth to give you what you want? I don't know.

[tr0psn4j]

Off topic but a guy I play Condition Zero with calls himself Ol' Fart. And, yes, he is. :)

[UncleRojelio]

As long as a game has the "reverse y axis" option, this old fart can own it.

[BrandonR]

As long as a game has the "reverse y axis" option, this old fart can own it.

I've been stuck with always having to invert the Y-axis since Goldeneye. Tis a hard habit to break...

[bump]

I think the biggest stumbling block to us old-ish farts is the time vs. learning curve problem.

I've been a pretty avid gamer since oh.... Atari 2600 days, and have had several computers and several consoles.

What I've noticed is that most games' easy mode isn't that bad, but now that I'm 37, I don't have the spare time that I did at 16, so I tend to be mediocre at best when playing multiplayer against geeky 14 year olds who play 16 hours straight per day. While I'm better than I was, I'm still not that great in comparison.

[levdrakon]

What I've noticed is that most games' easy mode isn't that bad, but now that I'm 37, I don't have the spare time that I did at 16, so I tend to be mediocre at best when playing multiplayer against geeky 14 year olds who play 16 hours straight per day. While I'm better than I was, I'm still not that great in comparison.Yeah, talk about a niche market: unemployed teenagers and college kids. That sounds like the ultimate moneymaker.

[bump]

Yeah, talk about a niche market: unemployed teenagers and college kids. That sounds like the ultimate moneymaker.

Who said anything about markets? All I said was that older players tend not to have the spare time that it takes to be successful in multiplayer, due to the learning curves involved, and the time it takes to overcome them.

I mean, I beat Fallout 3, but it took me a few weeks after the release datee, because I played an hour or two a night max. There were people (prob. teenagers and college kids) who played more or less nonstop and had completed it several times by the time I did. I just didn't have the time.

I realize the real market of the games is more people my age... but then again, for single-player, most games' "regular" level is just fine. Easy's usually appropriately difficult for my 8 year old nephew, and "hard" is good for my 15 year old cousin. "Regular" is just fine for a guy like me.

Maybe the fact that I've been a gamer forever is clouding my perception- the Xbox 360 controller is the what... 10th controller type I've used? (atari 2600, Nintendo, joystick/keyboard (multiple computers), mouse & keyboard (multiple computers), Super nintendo, Sega Genesis, Sony Playstation, Playstation 2, Xbox 360, Sega Dreamcast, Wii, etc...)

I didn't find it all that hard to pick up (maybe took me a week until I was passable)- and that was coming off of about 10 years of only mouse/keyboard PC games.

[levdrakon]

Who said anything about markets?You didn't. I was riffing off your post in response to the assertion up-thread that an aging GAMING generation was an insignificant niche market.

[GargoyleWB]

Being on a 360 and Wii, I really miss the hacks and mods that let you either tailor difficulty, copy someone else's savegame, or "god mode" and "noclip" past a difficult spot.

I'm an old fart, but can still play through most anything on medium/hard levels. But...

Metroid Prime Corruption on the Wii is one of my all time favorites. I would hug it, squeeze it, and call it George if I could. However, not even halfway through the game, there is one boss (Mogenar on Bryyo) that I can simply not get past. I've read every damn walkthrough and watched every Youtube playthrough there is, and it still kicks my ass. The simultaneous combination of needing to aim/dodge/charge/run/jump at the right moments is just too much for my poor brain-to-finger interface.

If I could find a neighborhood kid to pay $50 to just play past it and give me a new savegame I would.

[Troy McClure SF]

Right, and Hollywood shouldn't waste time on subtitles and captioning, because if you can't hear, you suck. Not their fault.
Transcription is far easier than re-coding a video game, and benefits far more users.

That's a wonderful business plan!
Are you saying there's something wrong with the videogame industry's business plan? Because they're doing quite well enough without your or my money.

[Jragon]

Being on a 360 and Wii, I really miss the hacks and mods that let you either tailor difficulty, copy someone else's savegame, or "god mode" and "noclip" past a difficult spot.

I'm an old fart, but can still play through most anything on medium/hard levels. But...

Metroid Prime Corruption on the Wii is one of my all time favorites. I would hug it, squeeze it, and call it George if I could. However, not even halfway through the game, there is one boss (Mogenar on Bryyo) that I can simply not get past. I've read every damn walkthrough and watched every Youtube playthrough there is, and it still kicks my ass. The simultaneous combination of needing to aim/dodge/charge/run/jump at the right moments is just too much for my poor brain-to-finger interface.

If I could find a neighborhood kid to pay $50 to just play past it and give me a new savegame I would.

Don't feel bad, Morgennar is friggin EVIL, even for this 20 year old (18 or so at the time I played it I think). Tedious beyond belief on top of bordering on unfair at certain points. TV Tropes That One Boss page seems to imply that many, many other people feel the same way.

He still can't top Thardus from the original though, it took me who knows how many attempts to beat him and then after that ordeal I realized that in my rage I forgot to freaking scan him. QQ

[Trepa Mayfield]

Transcription is far easier than re-coding a video game, and benefits far more users.


Are you saying there's something wrong with the videogame industry's business plan? Because they're doing quite well enough without your or my money.

See, when I craft my business plans, I always make sure to be snobby and arrogant to certain groups who want my product. Because they just aren't good enough for it. That rakes in the big bucks!

[levdrakon]

I'm an old fart, but can still play through most anything on medium/hard levels. But...

Metroid Prime Corruption on the Wii is one of my all time favorites. I would hug it, squeeze it, and call it George if I could. However, not even halfway through the game, there is one boss (Mogenar on Bryyo) that I can simply not get past. I've read every damn walkthrough and watched every Youtube playthrough there is, and it still kicks my ass. The simultaneous combination of needing to aim/dodge/charge/run/jump at the right moments is just too much for my poor brain-to-finger interface.

If I could find a neighborhood kid to pay $50 to just play past it and give me a new savegame I would.I hear you, brother. I completely love Metroid Prime, and Echoes almost as much. Well, 98% of the games, anyway. A couple of the bosses were pretty frustrating, but I got through it. Not the end bosses though. Just couldn't spend the time to develop the reflexes I'd need. I have MP3: Corruption, but now I'm really not looking forward to the boss you mentioned. Yikes!

Anyhoo, IMO the thing with Metroid is just that they don't scale the difficulty so you're actually ready for the final boss. To me, it seemed like a sudden jump to 10X the difficulty of the preceding levels.

[Justin_Bailey]

You don't know how many copies it'd sell, and here's a "little known" fact: TONS more people -don't- play "regular" video games than do. (The "regular adjective is here to preemptively eliminate people citing games like Bejeweled or Mafia Wars and claiming that ka-zillions of people play games every day.) Let me re-iterate that for you. Videogames, in the traditional sense, are still a niche market.

I see y'all are having a nice argument here, but this part of at least is incorrect. The number of people who play games and the number who don't is currently at an even 50-50 split in this country.

According to the census, there are about 114 million households in the US. The PS2 has sold over 50 million units in the US while the DS has sold in excess of 45 million. Assuming there's not a total overlap in those two numbers, that means more than half of all US households have a real gaming system in them.

As for "old fart mode", I'm all for it. I'm only 28 and I'm already convinced I've lost a step from when I was 12.

[Jragon]

I hear you, brother. I completely love Metroid Prime, and Echoes almost as much. Well, 98% of the games, anyway. A couple of the bosses were pretty frustrating, but I got through it. Not the end bosses though. Just couldn't spend the time to develop the reflexes I'd need. I have MP3: Corruption, but now I'm really not looking forward to the boss you mentioned. Yikes!

Anyhoo, IMO the thing with Metroid is just that they don't scale the difficulty so you're actually ready for the final boss. To me, it seemed like a sudden jump to 10X the difficulty of the preceding levels.

The Metroid Prime itself was something I almost gave up on completely. It's incredibly annoying, and depending on your ability to avoid damage for ridiculous amounts of time, could end up being luck based. If it turns purple a lot you're good since Wavebuster is hilariously overpowered against it, but if it goes red or blue you're almost better off just concentrating on defense until it changes to the more serviceable colors. It's also kinda cheap, though I can't remember specifics anymore.

Meta-Ridley is also cordially invited to suck it.

I see y'all are having a nice argument here, but this part of at least is incorrect. The number of people who play games and the number who don't is currently at an even 50-50 split in this country.
68% now (http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2009.pdf).

[Justin_Bailey]

68% now (http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2009.pdf).

Yeah, but that throws in the Bejeweled and Mafia Wars players that Airk was trying to exclude. Thinking about it in terms of real games, it's about 50-50.

[Troy McClure SF]

See, when I craft my business plans, I always make sure to be snobby and arrogant to certain groups who want my product. Because they just aren't good enough for it. That rakes in the big bucks!

Which game developers are being snobby and arrogant?

[JohnT]

As for me, an aging Gen-Xer who doesn't have time to learn a 12 button controller, I got a Wii with Beatles Rock Band.

I enjoy playing my daughter (8 years-old) in Wii Sports, and we go at it. Her bowling move, complete with leg kick, is funny as hell. I'm better than her at Super Mario, but that's just experience. If she gets into it, she'll begin to blow me out of the water in no time - "Daddy, look what I can do!"