How is it not against DC law to sell fake Green Cards? [Archive]

gitfiddle

01-06-2010, 07:37 PM

Just a WAG, but anything to do with green cards is a Federal thing.

Okay, I can understand that. But, then, aren't there plenty of federal agencies here who can ride a couple of blocks to Columbia Road and stop this, permanently?

kaylasdad99

01-06-2010, 07:47 PM

Did you read the last paragraph in the article? They come back when the heat is off.

gitfiddle

01-06-2010, 08:28 PM

Did you read the last paragraph in the article? They come back when the heat is off.

That's exactly what I don't understand. DC's the biggest (US) city I've ever lived in. Maybe I just don't understand that this stuff happens in big cities. If these guys have been doing this out in the open for almost ten years, is it really that hard to stop it?

Keeve

01-06-2010, 08:58 PM

Have you never read a news article about heroin being sold out in the open? Same thing here. Of course it is illegal. These people are taking a gamble and hoping to win.

Tapioca Dextrin

01-06-2010, 09:50 PM

aren't there plenty of federal agencies here who can ride a couple of blocks to Columbia Road and stop this, permanently?

Which ones? FDA? USDA? Once you've decided jurisdiction, re-read your original link. It complains that following the failures that led to the Xmas Crotch Bomber, the USCIS should abandon its mission of stopping terrorists entering the country and instead should concentrate their efforts on catching Mexican plumbers who want bogus paperwork. I'm pretty sure they've got more important things to do.

Waffle Decider

01-06-2010, 10:38 PM

As a possible nitpick, they only show a fake social security card and a fake EAD (employment authorization document) in the video clip, but not a green card. It's not clear if they really are selling fake green cards (and it just happens to be not shown in the news footage), or whether they are just selling fake EADs. The EAD is not valid for entering the country, so that might help explain the priority thing. Also, a green card is much harder than counterfeit than a EAD. For example, it's got laser holograms all over the place, including a hologram of the holder's photo and signature. I'm pretty sure it has a lot of other security countermeasures that are invisible to the naked eyes too.

handsomeharry

01-06-2010, 10:43 PM

Which ones? FDA? USDA? Once you've decided jurisdiction, re-read your original link. It complains that following the failures that led to the Xmas Crotch Bomber, the USCIS should abandon its mission of stopping terrorists entering the country and instead should concentrate their efforts on catching Mexican plumbers who want bogus paperwork. I'm pretty sure they've got more important things to do.
How about keeping a terrorist in custody, rather than letting him get away because he had phony ID?

rbroome

01-07-2010, 07:15 AM

How about keeping a terrorist in custody, rather than letting him get away because he had phony ID?

cite?
do you have an example of a terrorist already in US custody getting away because of a phony ID?

Silverstreak Wonder

01-07-2010, 09:23 AM

All we need do on any kind of document like a green card or a passport is put fingerprints. Frauds could be found so simply and the guy carrying such a document that does not match his fingers could be jailed with 100 percent certainty he is illegal.

(I would assign such folks to chain gangs for several weeks, so they would not want to come back, too) This immigration thing is actually easy to fix if someone just had brains. Why does no one ever think of fingerprints?

Ravenman

01-07-2010, 09:35 AM

All we need do on any kind of document like a green card or a passport is put fingerprints. Frauds could be found so simply and the guy carrying such a document that does not match his fingers could be jailed with 100 percent certainty he is illegal. Why is this any different than putting a photo on a fake ID? If bad guys can figure out how to put the "correct" photo on a fake ID, then putting the "correct" fingerprints on a fake ID is no barrier whatsoever.

Waffle Decider

01-07-2010, 09:36 AM

Actually, genuine green card DOES contain the thumb print of the holder. The prints from all ten fingers are also on file.

While these fake documents can be used to set up false identities after someone has already sneaked into the country, I don't think they are really all that useful for illegally entering the country. Unless you've got an insider hacking up the computer database for you, no fake US passport or green card are going to make it through the computer check at the US border.

Keeve

01-07-2010, 09:37 AM

Why does no one ever think of fingerprints?If they can put a person's actual photo onto a driver's license, why do you think putting actual fingerprints would be so hard?

Silverstreak Wonder

01-07-2010, 10:03 AM

Ravenman

01-07-2010, 10:06 AM

Holograms are already on photos, and photos get faked.

Anne Neville

01-07-2010, 10:50 AM

They could put a holographic background on the fingerprint pads that would be impossible for some guy in Mexico to fake. They could also use paper similar to money paper that would not be fake-able. They could use inks special like money uses too. This kind of thing is available now.

Are you willing to pay more taxes so these things can be done? And so that different things can be done when the guys in Mexico figure out a way around the new anti-fake devices, as they will?

Stooge

01-07-2010, 12:55 PM

MrFloppy

01-07-2010, 01:08 PM

Fingerprints are already on these documents. But, the ones these guys are selling are completely bogus and have the fingerprint of the person buying them.

These documents are just being purchased to gain employment, not enter the country. They will fool the average employer not an immigration official.

Absolutely. I have a Green Card and am holding it in my hand right now. I would say that it is absolutely impossible to create one that would get through immigration. About 75% of the back of the card is a magnetic area with all kinds of holographic stuff embedded in it. The front is also hologram city with fingerprints, signatures, mug shot etc and a bunch of numbers.

When I enter the US using the card, I have all 5 fingers of my right hand placed on a fingerprint detector and my retinas are scanned while my 'Green' card (actually pink) sits in a reader.. I assume that some of this info may be stored on the card in the magnetic area?

The fake ones may get you a job and that's about it.

Kyla

01-07-2010, 01:19 PM

cite?
do you have an example of a terrorist already in US custody getting away because of a phony ID?

Holy shit, no one better give one of these to the Xmas Crotch Bomber, cause he's currently across the street from my apartment. (Well, he is if he's still in the hospital. I don't know if he's been moved.)

*has outlandish, paranoid nightmare*

Driver8

01-07-2010, 05:02 PM

The story does sound scary but fails to make the connection between these guys and actually obtaining a fake green card that allows you to enter the country. As we've seen in the past it seems getting authorization through legitimate channels is easy enough for the bad guys!

I'd be surprised if a fake green card obtained like this would be good enough to get into the country. Even if it was a stunning replica (and that would be challenging enough, looking at my real card) I would think all the bits of data on it would not match the government's database.

Driver8

01-07-2010, 05:07 PM

When I enter the US using the card, I have all 5 fingers of my right hand placed on a fingerprint detector and my retinas are scanned while my 'Green' card (actually pink) sits in a reader.. I assume that some of this info may be stored on the card in the magnetic area?

The fake ones may get you a job and that's about it.Your experience is a lot more impressive than mine. When I last came into the country through Newark Airport in 2008 with my green card I can't remember them even scanning it or entering any information into a computer. Maybe I missed it but it sure seemed that the immigration official just glanced at it and waved me through! Hopefully they have stopped doing that, otherwise these fake cards may be more effective than I would think.

Waffle Decider

01-07-2010, 07:13 PM

Your experience is a lot more impressive than mine. When I last came into the country through Newark Airport in 2008 with my green card I can't remember them even scanning it or entering any information into a computer. Maybe I missed it but it sure seemed that the immigration official just glanced at it and waved me through! Hopefully they have stopped doing that, otherwise these fake cards may be more effective than I would think.

I bet they scanned your passport though. Your A# most likely has been linked to your passport#, and all kinds of info about you probably popped up on his screen as soon as he swiped your passport. I remember seeing the officer typing my A# on his keypad the first time I entered with the ADIT stamp in my passport. After that, they seem to be happy with just scanning my passport.

I think they started collecting fingerprints from permanent residents at the border in 2009. I have yet to encounter a retinal scan though.

Darth Sensitive

01-10-2010, 10:41 PM

They could put a holographic background on the fingerprint pads that would be impossible for some guy in Mexico to fake. They could also use paper similar to money paper that would not be fake-able. They could use inks special like money uses too. This kind of thing is available now.

Your statement is moronic. "Money paper" isn't terribly hard to duplicate with effort and ingenuity. See: Art Williams.