Is discussion of Legal psychedelics allowed?

[coremelt]

A thread on Fly Agaric was just closed in general questions.
However, Fly Agaric is legal to gather, own and prepare in the US and many other countries. See here:
http://www.flyagaric-amanita.com/law.html

My opinion is that since discussion of Tobacco and Caffeine is allowed, discussion of any other legal substances should be permitted. The argument "it's dangerous and could harm someone" is a non starter: Sky Diving and Motorcycling are highly dangerous activities and general discussion of them is allowed.

Of course someone that sky dived after only getting advice from the dope and not getting any training would be foolish... same with someone that consumed Fly Agaric after reading on the dope, in both cases the sane answer is "you need to seek proper advice"

However, we don't close threads on skydiving, I see hypocrisy here.

[Gfactor]

I see hypocrisy here.


A clarification:

1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

I don't think you've identified any hypocrisy. You may have uncovered an inconsistency, but I don't think we've promised some sort of unified theory of moderation, so inconsistencies are likely to come up.

That said, I didn't close the thread, so I'll leave it for the person who did to comment.

[coremelt]

ok, maybe not hypocrisy, but I do see problem here. The straight dope exists to fight ignorance. Discussion of the legal, and safe methods to use a plant which is not illegal should fall under acceptable terms of general questions. I can't see anything in the GQ rules against it.

Any comment by the specific GQ mods?

[Contrapuntal]

A link to the thread and to the post closing it would be nice.

[Harmonious Discord]

It sure looked like the only purpose of that thread was to make a psychotropic drug with the very possible risk of death in the end. Sort of like a how do I extract the crack out of this chemical mix of legal substances I picked up at the store, so I won't get high when I wash my bed sheets in this mixture to kill the bedbugs I made this for.

[Harmonious Discord]

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=547421

[CarnalK]

It sure looked like the only purpose of that thread was to make a psychotropic drug with the very possible risk of death in the end. Sort of like a how do I extract the crack out of this chemical mix of legal substances I picked up at the store, so I won't get high when I wash my bed sheets in this mixture to kill the bedbugs I made this for.

It's not sort of like that at all. I guess you have no clue that crack cannot be made from legal substances, it's basically cocaine and baking soda, but even if you said crystal meth, which can be made from legal substances, it's still a bad analogy because it doesn't seem the end product here would be illegal either.

In that thread we have:
Prepare it for what? It's a poisonous mushroom that shouldn't be eaten under any circumstances.
Since it is ingested by people, that categorical statement is false. From what I can see, it's poisonous to houseflies but I don't see any reported deaths in humans. In the interest of fighting ignorance could someone point out a cite that it is a such a deadly plant?

[Contrapuntal]

Since it is ingested by people, that categorical statement is false. From what I can see, it's poisonous to houseflies but I don't see any reported deaths in humans. In the interest of fighting ignorance could someone point out a cite that it is a such a deadly plant?Here's one that says it isn't.
(http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/var012.htm)

Here's one that says it is, but doesn't mention in what dose, and does refer to non-lethal doses being hallucinogenic. (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0504.htm#Harmful)

[coremelt]

It also needs to be pointed out that Fly Agaric can be prepared in such a way that the toxicity is removed, but also the hallucinogenic properties, then it's just eaten as a food source.

"The toxins in A. muscaria are water soluble. When sliced thinly, or chopped into thin dice and boiled in plentiful water until thoroughly cooked, it seems to be detoxified.[70] Although its consumption as a food has never been widespread, the consumption of detoxified A. muscaria has been practiced in some localities in Europe (notably by Russian settlers in Siberia) since at least the 19th century, and likely earlier."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria

The OP in the closed thread actually just asked how it can be detoxified, they said nothing about preparing it for use as a Hallucinogen.

It's also been used by both Siberian and Native American Shamans in Religious practises (plenty of cites in the wiki article)

[CarnalK]

Well, I could understand the mods erring on the side of caution regardless of the legality, for example I could see them shutting down a thread asking "How do I prepare fugu so I don't kill my family at dinner tonight?". However, given it's apparently mild toxicity and legal status:
GOOD advice in this thread will help you perform illegal acts.
BAD advice will help you to end up dead.
is erroneous.

[Irishman]

Well, reading wiki, apparently they're legal because nobody has gotten around to making them illegal yet, since their recreational use has not been common in the past.

[capeo]

Since it is ingested by people, that categorical statement is false. From what I can see, it's poisonous to houseflies but I don't see any reported deaths in humans. In the interest of fighting ignorance could someone point out a cite that it is a such a deadly plant?

That wasn't a categorical statement it was a statement of my opinion. To make it non-toxic you have to boil it until it's disgusting to eat, which is pointless. To trip off it you cannot know how much psychoactive substances are in it because it varies from mushroom to mushroom and by season. Eat too much and you will get ill. If psychoactives are what you are after there are safer mushrooms.

[CarnalK]

That wasn't a categorical statement it was a statement of my opinion. To make it non-toxic you have to boil it until it's disgusting to eat, which is pointless. To trip off it you cannot know how much psychoactive substances are in it because it varies from mushroom to mushroom and by season. Eat too much and you will get ill. If psychoactives are what you are after there are safer mushrooms.
First of all, it was a categorical statement, even if it was just your opinion. Secondly, it seems safe enough and is legal, unlike the alternative mushrooms you allude to.

From the wiki:
The North American Mycological Association has stated there are no reliably documented fatalities in the past 100 years.

From the NAMA site (http://www.namyco.org/images/publications/7_ShawBeug_2.pdf)(warning PDF file):
It is clear that, barring exceptional complications from other medical conditions, these toxins do not lead to death in humans from ingestion of
either Amanita muscaria or Amanita pantherina.

So I'm not sure what your categorical opinion is based on.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

After discussing it with the rest of the GQ moderators and looking over the information you provided, I've reopened the thread.

Sorry if I moved too fast on that one.

[ivn1188]

After discussing it with the rest of the GQ moderators and looking over the information you provided, I've reopened the thread.

Sorry if I moved too fast on that one.

I'm ivn1188 and I approve this message.