Some More Questions for Weight Lifters

[Wildest Bill]

I have been doing really good(I think anyway)at the gym lately. I have been going 4 or 5 times a week and I bust butt when I am there. But Monday night I was lifting heavy and of all of a sudden my right shoulder started hurting in the joint I guess.

This dude in the gym said I need to take the crohnium(sp) or something like that that you buy at a pharmacy that feeds the cartilage in your joints to heal them faster. He also said to take a break for a couple of weeks. Does this stuff work? And how does it work? And do I really need to take two weeks off or can I just go lighter for a while?

Second,

Man, after the advice I got from my six pack and washboard stomach thread I have started doing cardio exercise on the treadmill. (see I listen to you guys) My question is should I do the cardio before or after I lift weights. This pretty good size dude at the gym says I should do the cardio first to loosen up and get the blood pumping good. M & F magazine I could of swore they said do the cardio last to save energy for the weights first. My goal right now in case it matters is to build mass.

Oh one more does Hydroxycut work? Has anyone tried it?

Thank you for your help on these.

[Ethilrist]

I'd say lay off the weights for a couple weeks to give the joint time to heal--cartilage doesn't heal easily or well, so take it easy for a while. I think the guy meant "chromium," but I don't know if that heals cartilage.

Once you're doing both weights & cardio, I'd say do a couple minutes on a stairmaster or treadmill to warm up, then stretch out, do weights, then work on your cardio.

[barbitu8]

Chromium picolinate. No evidence for the claims for weight loss, body fat reduction, muscle building, increased metabolism, appetite reduction, cholesterol reduction, blood sugar regulation, energy and stamina booster, and diabetes helper. There are two studies on which much of the chromium craze has been based. A 1996 study showed that it did increase muscle mass in animals, not humans. A 1989 study showed a small, insignificant increase in lean body mass. Four studies conducted between 1992 and 1996 failed to confirm that chromium picolinate supplements can result in increased lean muscle tissue.

A recent study found that it can damage chromosomes, but that appears due to the picolinate, not the chromium. However, new research shows it is useful in sprint performance in runners. Chromium is a trace mineral that helps your cells use carbohydrate for energy. With insulin it allows sugar to enter the cells.

You probably got injured because you were doing too much too early. Don't work the same muscle groups two days in a row. Warm up with a light aerobic exercise, auch as the stationary bike. After you're thru with your weight lifting session, then do the main aerobic stuff: whatever fits your fancy. Or do the main aerobic stuff at a different time, like I do.

For now, do light stuff as long as there is no pain.

[andyman]

I agree with Ethilrist, definately take it easy for a couple weeks, or you'll run the risk of further injury.

As for as cardio goes, I do 10 minutes on a treadmill before weights to loosen up, and depending on how much energy I have after 1 hour of weightlifting, I may do another 20-30 mins on the treadmill. That's on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays, Tuesdays and Thursdays are cardio only days, 30 mins in the crosstrainer and 15 on the treadmill.

[Mr.Zambezi]

I just popped 3 Hydroxycut capsules. IT is an ephedrine, aspirin, caffeine stack. In essence, speed and analgesic. IT works, but not like magic. My energy level is, predictably higher. My appetite is lower. I am getting leaner by the day. In fact, I just ordered a second bottle of the stuff. Forget about the chromium. IT is mainly a diuretic.

I have been making great progress on getting a six pack. This is due in part to getting lean and in part to a new ab workout. I took the advice of some muscle mags and started treating my abs like any other muscle. I work them with heavy weights and sets of 15 rather than the old sets of 300 crunches I used to do. It is really starting to show.

Buy some hydroxycut. Or if you are so inclined, wash down some minitabs and aspirin with coffee.

[Mr.Zambezi]

On the shoulder, I had mine surgically repaired a few years back. I work out with minor injuries, but I warm up a lot. This means doing 30 reps with just the bas, then putting some weight on and usint the bar to stretch. Stretch a lot as soon as you are slightly warm. Then drop your normal pyramid max a bitand do very controlled lifts.

I use injuries as a chance to practice good form and work on the muscle mind connection.

[bump]

Originally posted by Wildest Bill

This dude in the gym said I need to take the crohnium(sp) or something like that that you buy at a pharmacy that feeds the cartilage in your joints to heal them faster. He also said to take a break for a couple of weeks. Does this stuff work? And how does it work? And do I really need to take two weeks off or can I just go lighter for a while?


Well, it's just like any other injury- you have to rest it in order to heal. So yeah, I'd say take 2 weeks off.


Man, after the advice I got from my six pack and washboard stomach thread I have started doing cardio exercise on the treadmill. (see I listen to you guys) My question is should I do the cardio before or after I lift weights. This pretty good size dude at the gym says I should do the cardio first to loosen up and get the blood pumping good. M & F magazine I could of swore they said do the cardio last to save energy for the weights first. My goal right now in case it matters is to build mass.


I doubt it really matters all that much. From my own experience, I know that after lifting, I'm usually too wiped out to really contemplate running on a treadmill or riding a bike for half an hour.

As far as building mass goes, I'm firmly convinced that the main determining factor is how hard you work at it. Most of the people I know who don't gain mass don't work hard enough at it.
By that I mean that they may do 3 sets of 10, but they don't put enough weight on to fail late on the second or third sets. They put enough on so that they're *sure* they'll finish all their reps. The point is to work to failure if you want to build mass, not just go through the motions.

Also, it's very important to not work the same muscles on subsequent days- you have to give your body a chance to adapt & build itself up to accomodate the stress you're putting it under. Getting enough sleep is another important thing. Finally, you need to eat a little more than you'd need to stay at a constant weight in order to put muscle mass on right. You may gain a little fat, but then you can lose that after you've gained the muscle.

Oh one more does Hydroxycut work? Has anyone tried it?


Personally, I don't fool with any supplements or anything- I just eat right, and drink some milk. No matter what you take, it's going to take a long time anyway- gaining muscle weight is at least as time consuming as losing fat is- maybe more so.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[Wildest Bill]

Thanks everybody for answering. First I do not work the same muscles I wait two or three days before hitting that muscle group again. I also do lift to failure usually at 7 to 8 reps.

You see I really don't want to go backwards anymore what if just did bi's and tri's would that hurt?

And Bump you should really try "Cell Tech" it actually works.

[andyman]

What if you just did tri's and bi's? As in to any other muscle groups? Can you clarify a bit please?

[bump]

Originally posted by Wildest Bill

You see I really don't want to go backwards anymore what if just did bi's and tri's would that hurt?


Dunno about you, but I have a shoulder which is occasionally sore, and the WORST feeling thing I've done when it's sore were preacher curls- something about the angle was pretty terrible.

Personally, I'd just do some extra cardio, legs and abs in the meantime- can't hurt to have good legs & stomach!

I don't think two weeks will do any serious damage to your current strength or mass- that takes a long time to really lose, on the order of months, I think.

I do know that one week hasn't done me any harm at all.

And, look at it this way- better two weeks up front than 5-6 spread out over a long painful time later, if you don't take care of your shoulder.


And Bump you should really try "Cell Tech" it actually works.

What's it do? Where would I get it- GNC?

[dasmoocher]

I would think that you would need just enough warm up to get the muscles loose and strecthed and the blood flowing. I'm under the impression that a long aerobic warmup first, on say, a Stairmaster, bike, or such burns up too much glucose that could be better utilized lifting weights.

As I understand it, it's better to use your glucose first to lift weights, and after lifting, do aerobic to burn fat because fat is what's metabolized after the glucose is burned. Use up your glucose first with weights to maximize the stregth training and then burn fat later. If you're too tired to do aerobics after lifting, isn't this a good sign of burning fat?

I'm might be wrong, I just started going to the gym to lift recently, and I haven't lifted seriously since high school sports--a ten plus year layoff, but my pants have become a lot looser, which I attribute to reduction of fat.

I'm sure the dopers that work out regularly can help more.

[Wildest Bill]

Originally posted by bump

Personally, I'd just do some extra cardio, legs and abs in the meantime- can't hurt to have good legs & stomach!

Ok that's what I'll do.

And, look at it this way- better two weeks up front than 5-6 spread out over a long painful time later, if you don't take care of your shoulder.[/quote

Very good point.


And Bump you should really try "Cell Tech" it actually works.

What's it do? Where would I get it- GNC?

Try http://www.extremesn.com/store/muscletech/celltech . And try to find another place besides GNC they charge $10 more a canister that the place I get it at.

[/B]

[LC Strawhouse]

Hey Bill, from my weightlifting experiences I've learned that there aren't any workout "rules" that apply to everyone -- so don't worry too much about what others tell you (I guarantee if you look at a few weightlifting magazines, you'll find lots of completely contradictory advice.) Just experiment with different routines, and stick with whatever feels better for YOUR body. I personally would do cardio and weights on different days, but that's just me.

I also wouldn't bother with those supplements and other weird products marketed to the weightlifting community -- 99% of them are scams/placebos that don't have the slightest effect. The fact is that many weightlifters are rather superstitious and adopt a "hey, it can't hurt" attitude towards supplements, and the companies know how to exploit this. I agree with bump -- just eat healthy and that's all you really need.

Regarding your shoulder pain: are you in the habit of stretching on your days off? That might help prevent cramps in some people. Until the pain goes away, I wouldn't put pressure on it... maybe do some flexes or light weights at home in the meantime if you feel like it.

[barbitu8]

what people have been saying about Cell Tech, go to this site: http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/celltech.html

I would not take any such supplements, esp. those containing ephreda. You don't need that junk.

As far as all your glucose being spent on weight lifting, not likely. You feel tired after a weight lifting session not because you depleted glucose. Fatigue is not a sign of glucose depletion. IMHO you will more likely burn up fat during weights. The more oxygen you have available the more fat you will burn. Weight lifting does not interfere with oxygen use. You wait between sets and so you're not going into aerobic debt.

[barbitu8]

This just in from Georgia Tech Sports Medicine & Performance Newsletter Jan 2001:

Exercose at 65% of maximal heart rate uses approx. equal amounts of carbos and fats as fuel. At 75%, it's 60% carbo & 40%fat.

When you do weights, you never get your hr up to even 65%. Take your pulse after you do a set and see what it is. The general rule to get the max hr is 220-your age.

[bump]

Originally posted by barbitu8
This just in from Georgia Tech Sports Medicine & Performance Newsletter Jan 2001:

Exercose at 65% of maximal heart rate uses approx. equal amounts of carbos and fats as fuel. At 75%, it's 60% carbo & 40%fat.

When you do weights, you never get your hr up to even 65%. Take your pulse after you do a set and see what it is. The general rule to get the max hr is 220-your age.


This is something I always wondered about: Why are so many people so dead-set on saying that people won't lose weight through weightlifting?

The way I see it, is that if you are eating in such a manner as to either lose weight or maintain weight without exercise, then it doesn't matter what exercise you do, because any exercise is going to increase the deficit between calories consumed and calories expended. That deficit has to come from somewhere, and ultimately it'll come from body fat if you stick to eating the same amount.

About all I can come up with is that maybe since weightlifting doesn't *directly* burn fat that people somehow equate this to weightlifting doesn't help in weight loss. This is about as silly as saying that since your car's A/C doesn't directly burn gas, that it doesn't impact your fuel economy.


Anyone have any ideas on this? I'm curious, because I had great success in weight loss by doing exactly what I described above- ate less & lifted weights, and lost 50 lbs in 8 months. I did very little cardio during that time as well.

[Moirai]

Bill- could gym dude have meant "chondroitin?" It is normally packaged with glucosamine as a joint cartilage rebuilder/maintainer. I know at least one person who swears by it, has had his knee scoped before and after regular use and there was cartilage on the second scope that wasn't there on the first, but YMMV.

I have heard that stacking chondroitin with glucosamine actually decreases the effectiveness of the glucosamine, but I can't remember where I heard that.

I give lots of glucosamine to my dog (Newfoundland with hip dysplasia), but don't take it myself.

Also, I have always done at least 1/2 of my cardio (20 mins out of 30-40) prior to my weights, in order to raise my heart rate. I thought that I would burn more fat that way.

[andyman]

Actually, bump, some of the things I've been seeing lately say that to loose weight, building muscle is the most important thing. It takes a lot more calories to sustain muscle than fat.

I'll try and find some sites.

[andyman]

Ok, take a look at

http://getjorge.com/html/onlinetv.html

http://homearts.com/rb/food/09bfatb2.htm

http://www.cc.emory.edu/EMORY_REPORT/erarchive/1996/October/ERoct.7/10_7_96wellness.html

[Wildest Bill]

Ejsgirl,

Yea that's it! Thanks. So you have heard positive things about it to?

Bump,

You are correct. Lifting weights does help burn fat and in fact it is good for your heart. New studies have proven this. I don't have a cite but I have definitely heard that.

[barbitu8]

Calories in-calories out= total calories. 3500 calories for one pound. You use up calories performing weight lifting. So weight lifting, of course, drops weight (but don't drop any).

Muscles are more metabolically active than fat. Do you notice your muscles twitching? I can see my leg muscles twitching constantly. Hence you expend more calories doing nothing if you have more muscles. You are expending more calories at your basal metabolism. It's a win-win situation.

Glucosamine and chrondroitin work together. Glucosamine sulfate. Four clinical trials conducted in Europe showed that it helps relieve the pain and increases the mobility of osteoarthritis. One study had electron microscopic evidence of cartilage repair and regeneration. None of the trials lasted over eight weeks, but at least in the short term no harmful side effects were noted. Thus this has the advantage over anti-inflammatories in that it helps repair cartilage and does not injure the stomach, kidneys, bone marrow, or any other body tissue.

In February, 1999, one of the first US studies of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate was presented at the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons. The study involved giving 93 patients either a placebo or a combination of 2,000 mg of glucosamine and 1,600 mg of chondroitin sulfate per day. At the end of six months, 52% of the patients taking the supplements experienced a significant lessening of the pain of their arthritis compared with only 28% of the patients taking a placebo. (Harvard Health Letter, July 1999)

Running Times, April 1999, reported the results of several longer lasting studies. In one study, conducted at St. John's Hospital in Oporto, Portugal, doctors divided a group of 68 patients, giving half a daily dose of 1.5 grams of glucosamine sulfate, the other 1.2 grams of ibuprofen (Motrin). The study was double-blind. After six months, the glucosamine group had significantly less pain than the ibuprofen group. Another double-blind study divided 30 chronic arthritis patients into two groups. One group received 500 mg of glucosamine sulfate per day for 14 days, the other got a placebo. Pain, swelling, tenderness and loss of function we lessened in 71% in the glucosamine group but were little changed in the placebo group. In a 3d study, 51 male and 17 female young athletes with cartilage damage of the knee were given 1500 mg of glucosamine sulfate daily for 40 days and then 750 mg for 90 to 100 days. Of the 68 athletes, 52 had complete disappearance of symptoms and resumed full training. A follow-up 12 months later showed no signs of cartilage damage in any of them.

A team of Boston researchers scoured three decades of medical literature to find studies that tested either chondroitin or glucosamine for treating osteoarthritis. Fifteen studies met specific criteria that qualified them to be included in the analysis. The result: glucosamine moderately improved both pain and function, while chondroitin had a large effect on those measures.

As with any other non-controlled substance, the ingredients in any supplement may not be what is said on the label. Nearly one-third of 25 major brands of supplements containing glucosamine and/or chondroitin did not contain all the labeled ingredients. (The New England Journal of Medicine, Health News, May 2000)

Doctors from Boston U. School of Medicine conducted a meta-analysis of research studies on glucosamine and chondroitin. Only the highest quality placebo-controlled, double-blind, and randomized studies were included in the analysis. They concluded that glucosamine and chondroitin are quite effective in treating the symptoms of osteoarthritis, but raised two points: no regulation of the supplements and the studies that show no effect may be less likely to be published and therefore skew the analysis. (Running & FitNews, June 2000)

[warmgun]

First if you are really trying build mass quit trying to cut up with cadio workouts. Save your energy for re-building. You have time for that after you mass up.
Do crunches with weight.
I get better growth when I go 48 hrs between working the same body parts. Rest is very important. Don't cross-train.
Go heavy.
Go heavy.
Go heavy! Yes, to failure.
You don't need sups unless the placebo effect is working for you.
Work 'power cleans' into your workout.
When doing deadlifts, shrug at the top for traps.
Go deep inside your head when lifting, your mind is the most important bodypart for growth.
Take 2 weeks offs to heal. NEVER train injured.

[Wildest Bill]

Barbitu8,

Thanks for the great info on the supplements. I am definetely going to try it now.

warmgun,

Thanks for the advice also. Just a couple of more questions on your post. Cross Training: Should I not do any cardio after weightlifting? Right now I am doing a brisk walk on the tread mill for 30 minutes ok I lied 20 to 25 after I do my weight training. Is this bad for getting bigger?

Second you said take two weeks off. Do you take two weeks off without doing anything? Last night I did bi's and tri's (not as hard as normal) but I still did them without pain. Is that going to hurt my shoulder further?

Just one more to question to settle an argument with my wife. If having the same exercise and diet regimend(sp), will a man lose weight faster than a woman?

[Simon Met a Pieman]

I must echo the sentiments of Warmgun. Never train an injured bodypart. Your enthusiasm with your new physique is understandable, but you must view your fitness from a longterm perspective. Weightlifting is not an overnight success story. Even athletes who use anabolic steriods must train for years to achieve a magazine quality physique.

The most important element of a successful training regimen is mental. Goals are only helpful when they're realistic. If you're an average joe, say 5'10" and 160 lbs when you begin weightlifting, and your goals are to weigh 225 lbs, with a 300 lb bench, 400 lb squat, and 500 lb deadlift, you've probably got about ten years of hard work and good nutrition standing between the body you have now, and the body you envision. There are variables, to be sure. Some people are fast gainers. Some people seem to work forever without making the gains they desire. The constant is this: Almost all weight trainers (chronic overtrainers excluded) will make gains. Be happy with the gains you make, keep asking questions, and pay attention to what your body tells you to do. Best of luck.

[barbitu8]

Originally posted by Simon Met a Pieman
I must echo the sentiments of Warmgun. Never train an injured bodypart.

I don't agree. It has been established that an injured muscle, tendon, or ligament recovers faster if used, so long as it can be used w/o pain. Using it gets better circulation into the area. For example, if you tear any of the muscles in your rotator cuff (there are 4), and don't use the shoulder, you may get "frozen shoulde syndrome."

As a prior post suggested, stretch good first and take it easy. So long as you can work it out without increased pain you'll be OK, and your recovery will be quicker. CAVEAT: I am not a physician.

BTW, the latest on chondroitin, this from the Harvard Health Letter, January 2001: In the January 2000 Journal of Rheumatology, Austrian researchers published a favorable meta-analysis of chondroitin sulfate, which combined the results of seven randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies. Chondroitin users improved by 60% on various kinds of standardized tests for pain.

The definite word on glucosamine and chondroitin may not come until 2004, when an NIH-sponsored trial is complete.

That journal has a website: http://www.health.harvard.edu
but that article does not appear in the website.

[warmgun]

Cross-training is discouraged if your sole goal is to gain muscle mass, though 15 minutes of walking shouldn't hurt. I was speaking of more of biking, weekend volleyball or football - any aerobic activity that will put more stress on the adrenals, zap your energy and cut into rest time. The average gym rat condtions his body to the stresses of his average workout and can generally carry on life as usual, but If you want to maximize your gains, again, you must focus and visualize and reach deep into your reserves and train hard and heavy without distraction. This puts tremendous stress on your body and rest (which is recouperation time) becomes as important as lifting in order to prevent injury which will REALLY set you back.

If you have been training regularly, two weeks off will probably result in a growth spurt. Regardless, it's better to err on to side of safety. If you exacerbate your injury you might have to take more time off than that.

I hate to get into this one, but...GENERALLY speaking, yes, a man should lose weight faster - all things being equal.

Finally, for the record, I disagree with barbitu8 that connective tissue heals faster with use. At least I haven't heard of it being "established". Maybe barbitu8 could provide a link. I once had a ligament tear and my Doc put my leg in a cast so I could NOT use it. Plus if connective becomes inflamed (with use) you will definately be on the bench for a while.

[barbitu8]

The old school of thought on injuries was to immobilize the area. That's not the practice now. Sure, if you have a broken bone you want to set it, but otherwise you want good circulation to the area. Ligaments esp. have poor blood flow which delays healing.

The OP indicated that he hurt his shoulder, which sounds like a muscle injury. Could be a rotator cuff, but could be another muscle. In any event, the shoulder definitely should not be immobilized. You want to use it to prevent "frozen shoulder." Ice it afterwards to limit inflammation. If the pain doesn't worsen as you use it, there won't be irritation.

I've injured both my rotator cuffs on the Nautlius machines and playing tennis. I continued to use my shoulders in the Nautilus, but I had to lower the weight and the reps, until it healed. When I did the exercise that uses the shoulder area, as soon as I felt some pain I stopped. I feel that this attributed to faster healing.

[dasmoocher]

Glucosamine supplements might have been reported to regenerate cartilage, but they might also cause diabetes.

Before anybody jumps on me for saying this, let me give background:

I work in biology lab at a university and some labs in the building get together once a week to go over papers presented in the literature. A couple of months ago, one of the full professors (a guy with a personal intrest in diabetes and competent enough to have secured millions in NIH grants over his career) presented a paper that invovled glucosamine in the insulin signaling pathway. The exact details are fuzzy to me right now, but his take-home message was that glucosamine supplements should be taken off the market under further research can be done.

I'll have to find the paper in my files to post the reference so people can judge for themselves and it's a holiday weekend, but if you're taking glucosamine you should be aware of possible detrimental effects.

[dasmoocher]

Sorry to bump this old thread up, but I promised to cite some literature.

For some reason, I can't link to PubMed, but here's the cite:

Phosphorylation of Human Glutamine:Fructose-6-phosphate Amidotransferase by cAMP-dependent Protein Kinase at Serine 205 Blocks the Enzyme Activity. Journal of Biological Chemistry; 275: 29 pp 21981-87. by (Chang et al).

The authors cite some other papers implicating glucosamine in diabetes in the discussion. Check them out if you're taking glucosamine for cartilage repair.

The abstract is pretty dense, but the big picture is that exogenous glucosamine can interfere with the fine-tuning of glucose regulation. And diabetes is a disease of glucose regulation.

[thinksnow]

My $.02: I've been taking glucosamine chrondroitin for months, and it has helped immensely WRT my knees. As a former runner, skier, soccer and rugby player, my knees are pretty beat up. Haven't had them scoped knock on wood, but they used to just ache. G/C has really helped. Sure, there is the occasional dull throb after a a session on the rowing machine are stair climber, but it's nothing compared to what used to be.

Just someone whose using the stuff chiming in. FWIW, I just started wokring out about a month ago, and would be interested in any other info you guys might have, since, as someone else mentioned, every magazine seems to have conflicting info...or they have "The Ultimate Workout" every other month and it's always different. :rolleyes:

[dasmoocher]

thinksnow, how exactly has it eased your symptoms? If you don't mind my asking.

My knee was scoped and my ACL reconstructed about 15 years ago. I just started lifting recently and I knew something was fucked up. I just had X-rays and a MRI done and it looks like I have osteoarthritis and chondromalacia in the joint. I saw the X-ray that showed both my knees and even my untrained eyes could see the difference between the two.

If I can convince myself that the benefits of glucosamine outweigh the risks of diabetes (my father has it, so I'm leery), I'd think about taking it.

So how well as it worked?

[thinksnow]

Well, like said, my knees used to ache all the time. The joints/tendons would creak and crackle when I would get up out of a chair or rise from a squating position. Getting out of a car after a long drive was a special torture. I've been taking G/C for probably a year or better now and my knees don't ache, they barely crackle and although driving long distances still causes some discomfort, it's gone after a good stretch.

Pschosomatic or real, I credit the G/C. The only other sup. I take is ginko, I haven't changed my diet and as I mentioned, I only started working out about a month ago. Your call, but I'm going to keep taking it until I find it has no effect or the proven risks are greater than I care for.

[Ziactrice]

Actually, if you have bad pain, I have a 'folk remedy' that I've recently learned actually dates from the Romans. I have bad arthritis in both knees, one ankle, and worst, both of the base knuckles of my thumbs. You aren't REALLY in trouble until your hands do it, because you MUST keep using hands.

The remedy is not for the faint of heart, or stomach, though. A half-cup (say, 4 oz) of apple cider vinegar, with two tbsp of honey or sugar, then another 4 oz of water or more to cut it dilute enough you can drink it. It's horrid, but if you can choke it down the pain will cease inside of three days, and not return for at least a month. The Romans used to drink vinegar straight, and apparently even LIKED it. Shudder.

I've been body building for four months now, and I started out VERY weak in the upper body (yes, I'm female, so go figure). I could only do 12 pounds on the military press when I began. Now, I'm up to 50 (not bad progress; I'm happy with it). I'm only down 10 of the 35 pounds I want to lose, but I've dropped FOUR sizes in slacks, and I look very much better. My stamina and energy is much higher, and I don't get sick as much or as long now. Since I have trouble with grip and shoulders, I researched on stretching properly, and added an excersize called "Rotator Cuff Lifts" done with barbells to my routine. That helped a lot, and the hyperextensions to balance the 'back' muscles against the stronger abs helped with the remainder of the pain.

In soft tissue damage, cartilage and ligaments can require over a year to 'fully heal', and will be vulnerable to re-injury forever. So, don't aggravate, support, loosen, and NEVER push things. It just makes you two steps forward, three dozen steps back. Stretching is good, LIGHT work (bar alone was a good tip), and slow build back with NO twinges, pain, or anything is best.

Oh, and if you're really watching the diet - if you cut down beyond the recommmended fat level, YOU will hurt your joints. Keep your fat intake as high as the required minimum, or maybe 5-10% higher for 'safety'. Take magnesium if your muscles threaten to cramp, or tighten up overmuch, and take calcium with it if you are dieting hard.

That's what has worked for me, and despite being really weak and having a poor hand grip, I haven't ever hurt myself with free weights. I can do 175 on the leg lifts, now, too! I'm only up to 5 pounds on the shoulder cuff rotations, but I do them SLLLLOW and three full sets. :)

[thinksnow]

Part of my problem is that I travel alot for work, so I'm resigned to the fact that I'm pretty much going to be using the apartment complex or hotels equipment (read: universal, treadmills, stairstep & seated rows).

I'm not around long enough to buy a temp (coupla month) membership somewhere, plus, IIRC, the cost on those is insane, but I'm also usually in one place long enough that just using "demo" or one week passes won't cut it. :(

Slight hijack, but anyone have any advice for someone using only a universal (bench and military press, lat-pull down, leg extension and leg press)?

BTW and FWIW, I've maxed the leg press @ 798# & 10 reps, but can only manage ~600 doin calf extensions. :D