What the heck are vegans?

[Hail Ants]

I've heard this term for a while now. I assume they're some kind of vegetarian? What's the difference?

[blur]

From what I know, vegan's are vegitarians who also do not eat/drink anything that comes from an animal. This includes eggs, milk, cheese ect. There are special kinds of pasta and breads that don't have eggs in them that they eat. I know there are other specifics I have forgotten, but I'm sure there are some on the board who can fill in the things I have left out.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Vega is the brightest star in the constellation you Earth people call Lyra. Most of us come from the sixth planet of that system.

[Short]

Vegans don't use any animal product, vegetarians vary, but generally are allowed to use animal products if they don't "hurt" the animal to harvest.

Wool, for example, is not worn by *good* vegans.

A looser definition (that is a definition which only applies to animal products), which some people use is vegans are vegetarians without the eggs, dairy, honey (in some cases), or other animal products.

Some people (not necessarily people who know what they are talking about) also use vegan to refer to strict vegetarians. That is vegans are people who manage to keep the gelatin, chicken broth and leather out of their life.

[Purd Werfect]

Vegans are people who use absolutely no animal products in their diet, including eggs, dairy, or honey. Often, they also don't purchase any clothing made from animals, such as leather belts or shoes.

Vegetarians avoid eating all flesh, but may eat eggs, cheese and the like. IIRC, the term for this is ovo-lacto vegetarian.

Some people call themselves vegetarian, but still eat fish. I don't really agree with the terminology on that last one, but to each their own.

[Purd Werfect]

kewl! multiple simulposts!

[Patty O'Furniture]

Whoops! What blur said!

Boy are my faces red...

[Ringo]

Mt brother and his wife are "vegetarians" who eat fish. A lot of fish. I call them aquatarians.

My Dad was one who was an avid fisherman who reviled hunters (?). I'm a grocerystoreian.

But to stay on topic, my understanding is that vegans are distinct from the greater class of vegetarians by their refusal to utilize animal products.

[Ringo]

Upon rereading, I see that verbal transmission of this thread could render me a "gross historian." Revisionism, anyone? Who were the first vegans?

[fnord1966]

Vegans are strange creatures, mainly for the fact that occasionally, they will eat a human placenta, thats right, I said Placenta! Well, not all of them, but some. They cook it up in a stew. Sounds quite yummy to me(Blech)

[avacado]

Another variation is the "freegan"--someone who won't financially support the meat, dairy, etc. industries, but would eat the food if it were otherwise going to waist. By the same token, many vegans and veggies might buy used wool or leather, since they'd be supporting the secondhand store rather than a given objectionable industry.

I ready a short story from the '70's with charcters who described themselves as "lacto-ovo vegetarians". Try telling that to the airline ahead of time.

[choosybeggar]

Originally posted by Attrayant
Vega is the brightest star in the constellation you Earth people call Lyra. Most of us come from the sixth planet of that system.



Originally posted by Attrayant
Boy are my faces red...

Careful, Attrayant!! You don't want to give us all away. BTW I'm from plant 5, the desert planet.

CB

[choosybeggar]

Originally posted by choosybeggar
I'm from plant 5...

CB [/B]

That's planet 5

[Phobos]

Originally posted by beatle
Mt brother and his wife are "vegetarians" who eat fish. A lot of fish. I call them aquatarians.



grrr!
speaking for all the fish who are sick of not being recognized as animals

[Jet Jaguar]

Originally posted by Phobos
Originally posted by beatle
Mt brother and his wife are "vegetarians" who eat fish. A lot of fish. I call them aquatarians.



grrr!
speaking for all the fish who are sick of not being recognized as animals

I knew someone like this in college. The way he explained it to me was that he wasn't against eating meat per se, but was opposed to farm-raised animals. He would eat fish and wild game (such as venison, for example). I'm not a vegetarian myself, perhaps someone else on the board can better explain this form of vegetarianism.

[avacado]

Have you ever seen the "FISH ARE NOT VEGETABLES" bumper stickers?

[fish in the sky]

Originally posted by fnord1966
Vegans are strange creatures, mainly for the fact that occasionally, they will eat a human placenta, thats right, I said Placenta! Well, not all of them, but some. They cook it up in a stew. Sounds quite yummy to me(Blech)


WHAT?!?! I'm near vegan myself, know several other vegans, and frequent a vegan message board (http://www.vegsource.com/talk/veganism/) and I have NEVER heard of a vegan doing such a thing. Where the hell did you get the idea that this is a normal vegan practice? Methinks it's more of a "new age" thing that a vegan one.

Originally posted by Jet Jaguar
I knew someone like this in college. The way he explained it to me was that he wasn't against eating meat per se, but was opposed to farm-raised animals. He would eat fish and wild game (such as venison, for example). I'm not a vegetarian myself, perhaps someone else on the board can better explain this form of vegetarianism.

They're not vegetarian, they're omnivores. If a person consumes any flesh, they aren't vegetarian. That's not to say that that what your friend was doing wasn't an interesting idea--one that I might be open to myself--and a step in the right direction, but it ain't any kind vegetarianism.

There really should be a word for those kind of almost-vegetarians, since there's a awful lot of them out there. By them calling themselves "vegetarians" that makes it so much harder for us 'real' vegetarians. I can't tell you how often I've heard, "oh, you're a vegetarian. But you eat chicken, though, right? No, what about fish? Shrimp?" etc. :rolleyes:

[TwoBuyFour]

J.J. wrote:
"perhaps someone else on the board can better explain this form of vegetarianism."

That's easy: it's not vegetarianism. It's a social or political or capitalistic statement and lifestyle. But it's not vegetarianism. Neither is eating fish. Yes, it's probably healthier to eat fish and not other meat. Similarly, one could just not eat red meat. Or eat just chicken. Or not eat meat during lent. But however you look at it, it's not vegetarianism, which is very simple: they don't eat meat. (Eggs are the only sticky point here, depending on whether one wants to call an unborn animal in an egg "meat".)

People swear off meat for various reasons. Some do it for health reasons, some for humanitarian reasons, some for religious or other reasons. The reasons behind why a person's made their choice will give you a big clue as to what they will or won't eat, and how far they'll go to stay within those guidlines.

A person who doesn't believe in harming animals would not eat any animal that's raised cruelly, or died cruelly. They might eat an animal killed humanely, hunted specifically for eating, or an animal that dies of old age. But that brings up the question of whether it's cruel to keep dairy conditions in the common conditions, and consequently whether cheese or milk is okay.

A person who doesn't eat meat for health reasons can draw the line wherever they like. As I mentioned earlier, they could just avoid red meat, or all meat but fish, or all meat and dairy, or whatever.

Anyway, I believe the OP has been answered. Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans avoid consuming all animal products. Ovo- or lacto-vegetarians are in between.

[avacado]

Originally posted by Lunatic13

They're not vegetarian, they're omnivores. If a person consumes any flesh, they aren't vegetarian. That's not to say that that what your friend was doing wasn't an interesting idea--one that I might be open to myself--and a step in the right direction, but it ain't any kind vegetarianism.

ok... This sparks another question. A few years ago, our old band played a punk rock show/pot luck. It was a lot of fun, but the flyers said "vegan or carnivore dishes accepted." At the time I thought it was a bit of anti-meat propaganda, since I thought humans are omnivores (no matter whether we choose to eat only plants or not). All the vegans I know don't refer to themselves as herbivores, but some like to call meat-eaters carnivores. Any thoughts? Is there any factual basis for this, or is this just some self-righteousness popping up?

Cool vegans of the world, please don't take offense, but some vegans get a little, um, fanatical about spreading their beliefs, just like some cattle farmers, some religious zealots, etc.

[relic_11]

Kudos to anyone who knows what fruitarians eat!

[fish in the sky]

Originally posted by relic_11
Kudos to anyone who knows what fruitarians eat!

Fruitarians only eat plant food that has been harested without killing the plant, ie., fruits. How they do this for any length of time and stay healthy is beyond me. I think when you get to the point of fruitarians and raw foodists and breatharians :rolleyes: you've probably taken things a bit too far.

Originally posted by avacado
ok... This sparks another question. A few years ago, our old band played a punk rock show/pot luck. It was a lot of fun, but the flyers said "vegan or carnivore dishes accepted." At the time I thought it was a bit of anti-meat propaganda, since I thought humans are omnivores (no matter whether we choose to eat only plants or not). All the vegans I know don't refer to themselves as herbivores, but some like to call meat-eaters carnivores. Any thoughts? Is there any factual basis for this, or is this just some self-righteousness popping up?

Um, no, biologically-speaking I think you're right, the human species is omnivorous. I know some vegans refer to themselves as herbivores half-facetiously, and will call non-vegs carnivores or omnivores, but they and I may not using the term in the scientifically correct way. Does anyone know if "herbi--", "omni--" and "carni--" refers to the species or the individual?

[JeffB]

Originally posted by TwoBuyFour
(Eggs are the only sticky point here, depending on whether one wants to call an unborn animal in an egg "meat".)

Just a quick point, most eggs sold are unfertilized, so would not qualify as an "unborn animal" (though I know this is a sticky point).

Orignally posted by Lunatic13
Does anyone know if "herbi--", "omni--" and "carni--" refers to the species or the individual?

I believe the terms normally refer to the species, though there is no reason they can't be applied to an individual. I think it would be difficult to find any truly carnivorous humans.

[TwoBuyFour]

If I owned a pet wolf and fed it only soy products and a strict vegetarian diet, that wouldn't make it a vegetarian. This is just a guess, but I think the prefix refers to the species, not the individual.

As far as placentas go, I've heard of vegetarians/ vegans eating them in stew, as well. Their rationalization is that it's the only "meat" that doesn't need for something to die. It's loaded with (at least) 8 essential vitamins and minerals! However, from what I've heard it's almost a cult-ish offshoot of veganism. it's not commonly practised.

In addition to that, I've heard that it tastes awful.

[relic_11]

Yay Lunatic13!

[Short]

And then there is of course the 2000 Ignoble prize (http://www.improbable.com/ig/ig-2000-winners.html) for literature:

LITERATURE
Jasmuheen (formerly known as Ellen Greve) of Australia, first lady of Breatharianism, for her book "Living on Light," which explains that although some people do eat food, they don't ever really need to.



On the placenta question, I'm a vegetarian and have never known anyone to do this, but certainly have heard it being done. It is not a common practice 'round these parts, though (at least in so far as my immediate circle of friends goes). A search engine of your choice should bring up many placental recipes (http://rainforest.parentsplace.com/dialog/get/newf4homebirth1/49/3.html). I would think this is pretty much seperate from vegans and vegetarians, though.

[handy]

When I see a vegans I say, 'So you don't have oral sex?'

[Arjuna34]

Here's Cecil on placenta stew (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_104.html)

Arjuna34

[BiblioCat]

Originally posted by Short

And then there is of course the 2000 Ignoble prize (http://www.improbable.com/ig/ig-2000-winners.html) for literature:

LITERATURE
Jasmuheen (formerly known as Ellen Greve) of Australia, first lady of Breatharianism, for her book "Living on Light," which explains that although some people do eat food, they don't ever really need to.



continuing the hijack...
What? This guy doesn't eat? Nothing? How can he live without eating? Why do we have a stomach and a digestive system of we aren't supposed to eat? Is this guy for real or is this a joke?
I think this guy is sneaking food somewhere...

[Polycarp]

Attrayant responded:
Vega is the brightest star in the constellation you Earth people call Lyra. Most of us come from the sixth planet of that system.

Please convey us Heinlein fans' greetings to the Mother Thing. ;)

[Narile]

It should be pointed out that it used to be accepted that vegitarians could eat fish. I am curious as to when this changed, but the older works would call the majority of Japanese vegitarians since they didn't eat game or fowl, but did eat fish. Also, the Catholic prohibition against eating meat on fridays didn't extend to fish, so they were considered acceptable for vegitarians for that reason as well, I believe.

[fish in the sky]

Originally posted by handy
When I see a vegans I say, 'So you don't have oral sex?'

Ya know, this topic is actually occasionally discussed in earnest at the message boards I linked above. The usual answer is that, yes, oral sex (and breast-feeding, too, before you ask) is vegan, since generally no animals are harmed or exploited during the course of normal oral sex. Now, if you're talking about oral sex with a goat, that... that I don't want to think about.

[fnord1966]

Originally posted by Narile
Also, the Catholic prohibition against eating meat on fridays didn't extend to fish, so they were considered acceptable for vegitarians for that reason as well, I believe.




Which is how the CAPYBARA!! became a fish instead of the giant swamp rat that it truly is. Kooky pope.

[Jukeball]

Vegans and ppl or aliens for the star Vega which is like very far away .

Also u should see the movie CONTACT where they get encrpted messages from Vega

[yosemite]

Two byFour wrote:
Anyway, I believe the OP has been answered. Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans avoid consuming all animal products. Ovo- or lacto-vegetarians are in between.

Vegetarians do not eat fish. Perhaps fish-eating was considered "vegetarian" years ago, but it is no longer. If you look at the mainstream vegetarian restaurants, cookbooks, magazines, they NEVER include fish in their recipes. Sure, there will be some people who will insist they are vegetarian while eating fish, but this is no longer the accepted mainstream standard for vegetarianism.

[Commander Fortune]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
Two byFour wrote:
Anyway, I believe the OP has been answered. Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans avoid consuming all animal products. Ovo- or lacto-vegetarians are in between.

Vegetarians do not eat fish. Perhaps fish-eating was considered "vegetarian" years ago, but it is no longer. If you look at the mainstream vegetarian restaurants, cookbooks, magazines, they NEVER include fish in their recipes. Sure, there will be some people who will insist they are vegetarian while eating fish, but this is no longer the accepted mainstream standard for vegetarianism.

A Boulder restaurant owner was sued for including fish stock in his "vegetarian" marinara sauce. The patron, upon finding out the "secret ingrediant" sued Jay, of Pasta Jay's for the sum of every meal he had consumed in that establishment during the previous six years - a total of about $600.00.

The owner, Jay*, actually chose not settle, went to court and tried to defend himself with the notion that, duh, everybody knows marinara means "from the sea", of course it had fish in it. Vegetarian meant it didn't have "meat" in it. The judge didn't see it that way. Jay lost. For the life me why he spent such a pittance on BAD publicity instead of just refunding the guy, who came across as totally reasonable, escapes me.




*Jay is the friend of the Ramsey's who threatened the reporters out front of their Boulder home with a baseball bat. I think that got reported nationally, not sure. It was a big freaking three ring circus side-show here, though. It only added to his less than popular local reputation.

[ticker]

How do strict vegans get around the problems with books and photographs? Conventional photographic film has the light sensitive chemicals suspended in geletin which is made from animals. Even in this digital age most large scale printing uses a conventional photographic plate to create the final printing plate.

Surely books on veganism could not be tolerated without a serious compromise of principles.

[woolly]

Originally posted by avacado
... many vegans and veggies might buy used wool or leather, since they'd be supporting the secondhand store rather than a given objectionable industry.

[indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune]
What's the basis for this "wool is an objectionable industry" from a vegan /vegetarian perspective? :confused:
[/indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune]

[fish in the sky]

Originally posted by ticker
How do strict vegans get around the problems with books and photographs? Conventional photographic film has the light sensitive chemicals suspended in geletin which is made from animals. Even in this digital age most large scale printing uses a conventional photographic plate to create the final printing plate.

Surely books on veganism could not be tolerated without a serious compromise of principles.

Okay, folks, the party line is this: It's impossible to be 100% pure vegan because there are animal products in everything. The important thing is to do the best that you can to avoid the big stuff--meat, dairy, eggs, honey, leather, wool, silk, etc.--and not drive yourself insane over the weensy bits of animal products that are in film or plastic or what-have-you. Here (http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/archive.htm) is an archive of "but what about..." questions relating to veganism.

Originally posted by woolly
[indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune]
What's the basis for this "wool is an objectionable industry" from a vegan/vegetarian perspective?
[/indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune]


Here (http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsm6.html) is PETA's little bit on wool. Okay, so it's not the most unbiased source, but you asked for the "vegan perpspective." (and, okay, even a lot of vegans don't like PETA, but I don't feel like doing real research.) Here (http://www.vegsource.com/joanne/qawool.htm) is the Ask Joanne (archive linked above) column on wool. Remember that most vegans feel that any "use" of animals, no matter how gentle and well-intentioned it may be, is wrong.

[Road Rash]

This may be a BBQ pit type answer. I know many self proclaimed vegitarians. I only hear of Vegans. Vegans seem to be the ones whose personal habits go beyond personal. They appear to me to be a radical element who are not content with their lifestyle being a personal choice. They are on a crusade to win converts and torment meat eaters.

[yosemite]

Cooldude, how many vegans do you personally know? How can you speak for all vegandom?

I know pain-in-the-ass veggie/vegans, and I know plenty who are low-key. You'd never know they were veggie, until mealtime comes around. I also know plenty of meat-eaters who like to "torment" veggies. They know one or two annoying vegetarians, and they feel like this gives them permission to annoy and pester any and all vegetarians. (Usually who are minding their own business at the time.) I have had this happen to me many times. I even started a Pit thread about it.

I can't and won't label all meat-eaters as people who want to pester vegetarians/vegans, however. And I don't see how you can label all vegans that way.

[Johanna]

Whoa, back off, dude. I'm vegan and I'm not on any damn crusade, nor do I torment anyone or try to win any converts. My thing is called "live and let live."

What Lunatic13 said.

[Johanna]

What yosemitebabe said.

[Road Rash]

OK. I will chill. The press gives you a bad name. Of course, where is the news in a peace loving anything. Sorry for the steriotype. I'm not a big meat-eater. My palate goes more toward grains. A little meat adds flavor.

I'm usually a cool dude, but I get pissy sometimes.

[Aestivalis]

Would the use of animal manure be considered exploitation of animals? It's an animal by-product. I guess vegans might not be able to eat some organically grown vegetables if that were the case.

[Chronos]

Granted that the term "vegetarian" is only properly applied to a person who doesn't eat animal flesh, is there any standard term for those following other common restricted diets? For instance, many folks choose not to eat red meat, but have no problem with poultry. Catholics are forbidden to eat the flesh of a warm-blooded animal on Fridays in Lent (yes, that's right, frog legs, alligator, and turtle soup are acceptable side dishes at the fish fry), and some folks eat seafood freely, but not landbound beasts. It seems like it'd spare a lot of confusion if we did have something to call those folks.

If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegitarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn't like to be reminded of what she was eating.

[avacado]

Originally posted by woolly

[indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune]
What's the basis for this "wool is an objectionable industry" from a vegan /vegetarian perspective? :confused:
[/indignant outburst in defence of the family fortune] [/B]

As the poster of the offending quote, I feel like I should explain. Vegan/vegetarianism are a group of stops on the spectrum of morals that runs from "people can kill anything" to " people should harm nothing". Some people think keeping animals for solely to shave is wrong. To these people, wool is the product of animal slavery. Some people think shaving sheep is fine, but eating them is wrong. Some people think you can kill 'em, skin 'em, and use their shinbones as a pencilbox.

This thread is all about expounding different people's ethics concerning animal. Please don't be insulted if some of them disagree with your livelyhood.

And ticker, from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It's not economically feasible. The thing is, some of vegan/veggies operate on the vote principle: I have this one vote to give, so I'm going to vote my conscious. Even if one vote doesn't change the world, what are going to do, not vote? That doesn't change anything either. So, maybe the book you want or have to buy was somehow made in violation with your ethics. At least you did all that was reasonable.

Wow, this is my fiftieth post. Go, me.

[ScoobyTX]

Originally posted by Chronos
If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegitarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn't like to be reminded of what she was eating.

[aside to aside][not exact quote]
Homer: Lisa, what do you mean you're a vegetarian?
Lisa: I don't want to eat anything that comes from an animal.
Homer: But what about pork chops?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Bacon?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal!
Homer: Hehehe, yeeeeeah, right Lisa. A wooonderful, maaagical animal.
[/not exact quote][/aside to aside]

[Muffin]

Originally posted by ticker
How do strict vegans get around the problems with books and photographs? Conventional photographic film has the light sensitive chemicals suspended in geletin which is made from animals. Even in this digital age most large scale printing uses a conventional photographic plate to create the final printing plate.

Surely books on veganism could not be tolerated without a serious compromise of principles.

Yup. Lots of compromises. The world is full of greys, and is not black and white. The trick is to do the best you can in the circumstances, rather than not to try at all. We all find our own comfort level (which for me is veggie but not vegan due to my lack of willpower).

[ticker]

Originally posted by avacado
And ticker, from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It's not economically feasible.

Sorry, that is just not true. The photographic industry is still one of if not the largest user of high grade geletin - substitutes do not have the right properties. I cannot provide an online cite right now but I have seen the information repeated in several advanced (i.e. college level) photographic text books.

[Fiver]

Chronos:If you want to hear a really offbeat form of pseudo-vegetarianism, for several years, my sister refused to eat any meat which was called by the same name as the animal which produced it: Beef, venison, and pork were fine, for instance, but not chicken, turkey, or fish. She just didn't like to be reminded of what she was eating.
I think most people are like that. They want to distance themselves from the pain and fear and cruelty involved in what they're eating, and that's how certain meats get their names.

I'm no etymologist, but I bet it's no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn't what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence "veal" instead of "innocent baby calf," "mutton" instead of "adorable little lamb."

I bet you that if people had to slaughter their own food, there'd be many more vegetarians in the U.S.

Just for the record, I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan, and I use photographic film but don't eat Jell-O.

[ticker]

Originally posted by Five
"mutton" instead of "adorable little lamb."

I think that may be the one exception to your rule. Mutton is exclusively adult sheep. Lamb is lamb (chops, rack-of etc) but that example aside you may have a point. On the other hand, when the names were first invented I am not sure people were so squimish.

[Running with Scissors]

I'm no etymologist, but I bet it's no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn't what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence "veal" instead of "innocent baby calf," "mutton" instead of "adorable little lamb."
And lamb chops? I don't know; here in the states it's rare that I hear someone refer to lamb as "mutton".
Just for the record, I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan, and I use photographic film but don't eat Jell-O.
Check out Hain's, which I believe is vegetarian.

[Johanna]

Originally posted by avacado
from what I understand, no one uses animal gelatin anymore. It's not economically feasible. That's something I'd like more information about.

A lot of vegans are health-conscious and into herbal medicine. A lot of herbal medicines these days come in capsules. I get herbs in VegiCaps as much as possible, but some are just not available in VegiCaps. I have heard suggestions that the "gelatin" used in capsules these days is not necessarily made from boiled-down animal parts. But they don't have to tell you what it comes from. Jews and Muslims are wary of gelatin that may or may not be pork-based. Vegetarians would like to know if gelatin doesn't come from animals, or what.

[avacado]

Originally posted by Five

I'm no etymologist, but I bet it's no accident that our fellow mammals are the ones that get different names when they become food. A warm-blooded creature with emotions similar to ours isn't what we want to think about when we chow down. Hence "veal" instead of "innocent baby calf," "mutton" instead of "adorable little lamb."

I think the reason why cattle and pig meat is called beef and pork in English dates back to Anglo-Saxon times in England. The Normans spoke French and ate beef and pork, seperating themselves from the peasents who spoke some version of English and raised the animals, Or so I heard in high school Latin. Maybe someone can correct this for me?

As for lamb and veal, Cecil deals with it:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlamb.html
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mveal.html

I bet you that if people had to slaughter their own food, there'd be many more vegetarians in the U.S.


FWIW, my dad grew up on a farm, milking cows and beheading chickens on tree stumps for Sunday dinner. He said he couldn't understand anyone not eating meat, and that anyone who grew up on a farm wouldn't be a vegetarian. Of course, he never saw factory farms or slaughterhouses...

[BiblioCat]

Originally posted by Lunatic13
Originally posted by relic_11
Kudos to anyone who knows what fruitarians eat!

Fruitarians only eat plant food that has been harested without killing the plant, ie., fruits.
Are you serious? Even harvesting fruit is killing something. If you pick an apple to eat, no, you don't kill the tree, but you are still killing that apple. Why won't they eat veggies? Because they would be killing a whole plant? What is the difference between killing an apple or orange, and killing a potato vine or bunch of broccoli or some wheat?
I know it's different from killing a cow or pig to eat (duh), but you are still "killing" the piece of fruit you are eating.

[pldennison]

Originally posted by Kinsey
[QUOTE]Are you serious? Even harvesting fruit is killing something. If you pick an apple to eat, no, you don't kill the tree, but you are still killing that apple. . . . I know it's different from killing a cow or pig to eat (duh), but you are still "killing" the piece of fruit you are eating.

OTOH, from the fruit's "point of view" (to the extent such a thing is possible), being eaten is an excellent way to propagate the species; seeds are spread through the dispersion of fecal matter or through the discarding of cores, etc. Unfortunately, since most people back their garbage and defecate in the toilet, the fruit's plans for propagation are thwarted.

[UrbanChic]

Just to set a few things straight...

A person who does not eat red meat or poultry but still consumes fish is called a pesco-vegetarian or pescetarian. They will also eat dairy products and eggs.

Although I am not a fruitarian, It seems as though fruit will fall from the tree and die anyway so they are just 'helping it along', if you will. A fruitarian wouldn't eat a carrot, for example, because the part that's eaten is the root and harvesting it from the ground would kill the plant.

Some vegans also go as far as not eating yeast products, too.

I used to be a pesco-vegetarian. It wasn't bad. I did it for health reasons (I wanted to lose weight) for six months. Before that, I stopped consuming red meat, again, for health reasons. Now I eat just about everything the supermarket and butcher have to offer :)

[DaveX]

Vegans seem to be the ones whose personal habits go beyond personal. They appear to me to be a radical element who are not content with their lifestyle being a personal choice. They are on a crusade to win converts and torment meat eaters.

A few people jumped on cooldude for this, but it is a pretty common viewpoint (not that I agree with it). The problem being media representation. Like it or not, it's not vegetarians that are associated with the violent animal rights groups (ALF, etc.), it's vegans. A man (or woman) deciding not to have the chicken for lunch is never going to make the headlines, but blowing up a mink farm certainly will.

I live in Utah, and there is quite a 'straight-edge' contigent out here. Because of irresponsible reporting, people in these parts automatically associate vegans with 'straight-edge'. Every time there is a story about straight-edgers, they are described as 'vegans who don't drink, smoke, or have pre-marital sex'. This is not a good association for the vegans, since the straight-edgers out here have a lengthy history of pointless violence.

On a lighter note... In keeping with the fruitarian philosophy, I don't think I'll eat anymore dead animals, either. I'll just keep a live pig in my backyard and flay the bacon of him as needed. :D

[avacado]

Originally posted by DaveX
I live in Utah, and there is quite a 'straight-edge' contigent out here. Because of irresponsible reporting, people in these parts automatically associate vegans with 'straight-edge'. Every time there is a story about straight-edgers, they are described as 'vegans who don't drink, smoke, or have pre-marital sex'. This is not a good association for the vegans, since the straight-edgers out here have a lengthy history of pointless violence.
[/B]

To be fair, though, plenty of straight-edge kids are cool and mellow, and plenty of activists don't blow things up. I guess veganism and sXe got mixed together because so many kids with "the edge" are also vegan or vegetarian (but not the other way around). It follows that someone who's concerned about the substances that enter his/her body might also be concerned about the food that enters that same body. The reasons why someone goes straight edge are as diverse as the reasons why someone stops eating meat, but there is some affinity between those sets of choices.

It sucks that DaveX's area is filled with violence. Straight edge hardcore kids have a popularized image of violent, skinhead-like gang behavior (thanks, MTV). You know the stereotype: athletic white males in expensive sneakers and basketball jerseys, listening to Earth Crisis and harrassing anyone who drinks, smokes, or makes out. Really though, I think this is mostly media hype.

Maybe there are so many straight kids in Utah because part of Latter Day Saint behavior is essentially straight edge (no tobacco, no premarital sex, no drugs (including caffiene),etc.).

[Peta Tzunami]

Just wanted to add that a fairly comprehensive, detailed explanation of the why's behind an ethical vegan lifestyle can be found at a website entitled "Why Vegan?" (http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/)

SIDENOTE: FWIW, Hain does make a vegetarian gelatin dessert; veg'an gelatin is a product of agar-agar (seaweed). It's not bad tastewise, but it doesn't get as...um...elastic might be the word I'm looking for--its a softer type of dessert.

A lot of the other subjects within this thread have probably been discussed ad naseum in GD.