Random Mafia [Archive] - Straight Dope Message Board

sachertorte

03-18-2010, 08:59 PM

I had to drop out of my last game because I couldn't keep up.

How fast and how big do you think this game is going to be sach? If I can get by with my usual 0 participation on weekends then I am in.

I can't promise what other players will do to you, but I won't have a problem with players not participating on Weekends. It would be rather hypocritical if I did.

Just to be sure: This isn't going to be some crazy experiment like not-so-simpletown, is it?

How many players?

Not a crazy experiment. No.
Target size is about 20.

Oh, and what's the Day/Night schedule going to be?

Days will end on Thursday afternoons. Probably 2 PM Eastern Daylight Time.

Do you guys want me in on this?

It is my personal opinion that it doesn't matter what anyone else wants. What is important is that you do what you want.

Chronos

03-18-2010, 09:05 PM

What the heck.

/in

I will be able to be online at the end of the Day, but don't expect me to be very lucid: That's the day I have 8AM labs.

sachertorte

03-18-2010, 09:06 PM

Player List
1. Tom Scud
2. Jimmy Chitwood
3. Freudian Slit
4. Drain Bead
5. NAF1138
6. MHaye
7. TexCat
8. GuiriEnEspana
9. Red Skeezix
10. Mahaloth
11. storyteller

Sub-List
1. Cookies!

Wow. This is moving fast.
Cap is 20-ish.

ShadowFacts

03-18-2010, 09:52 PM

Dammit, I really want to play, it's been ages, but I'm in the middle of rehearsals, so I won't be able to spend the time. sach, if you need help in some other way (weekend vote counts if you're busy or something), I'd be happy to pitch in.

Mahaloth

03-18-2010, 10:02 PM

Is this game Gasterd? I'm in either way, but I guess I better ask up front.

Mahaloth

03-18-2010, 10:03 PM

Ah, it's newbie friendly, so I guess not.

Nevermind

BigT

03-18-2010, 11:17 PM

Is this game Gasterd? I'm in either way, but I guess I better ask up front.

Huh. The games I've been tempted to jump in on have been the gastard ones, because it puts everyone on an equal footing of being confused.

And, no, I don't think I can play this one, either.

Zeriel

03-18-2010, 11:45 PM

In.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 06:50 AM

Huh. The games I've been tempted to jump in on have been the gastard ones, because it puts everyone on an equal footing of being confused.

And, no, I don't think I can play this one, either.

Despite anything, ANYTHING I have said in the past :

The moment BigT decides he is in on a Mafia game, I will move mountains to play in that game.

BigT flat-out "gets me". It would undoubtedly be my best Mafia game ever. Even better if we together were Scum / Mason or a similar off board communication power.

I remain amazed at how well he gets me. -- At the same time, it let's me know that other players do have some stake in understanding me better, that it is not all just "Meeko" being "Meeko".

One And Only Wanderers

03-19-2010, 06:54 AM

i will

/in

Meeko

03-19-2010, 06:56 AM

It is my personal opinion that it doesn't matter what anyone else wants. What is important is that you do what you want.

I remain amazed that you of all people are saying this. I was after you very hard.

Since I have started playing mafia, I have yet to have a chance to be in a forbidden / spoiled thread from Day 1. [heh].

I honestly think, if I can experience the game in a quasi-scum* state, it would help me a lot.

*Not necessarily spoiled, but being able to frankly talk about the game out-side of the game space. There are parts of the game I don't get. I don't think anyone would argue that. If I could frankly ask those questions, from day 1, I think I would go far.

Mahaloth

03-19-2010, 06:58 AM

Huh. The games I've been tempted to jump in on have been the gastard ones, because it puts everyone on an equal footing of being confused..

Yeah, I'm good either way.

Meeko, just play if you want to and don't if you don't want to.

KellyCriterion

03-19-2010, 07:18 AM

Put me in, please.

special ed

03-19-2010, 07:25 AM

I'd like to be in, please, if there's still room.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 07:30 AM

Player List
1. Tom Scud
2. Jimmy Chitwood
3. Freudian Slit
4. Drain Bead
5. NAF1138
6. MHaye
7. TexCat
8. GuiriEnEspana
9. Red Skeezix
10. Mahaloth
11. storyteller
12. Chonos
13. Zeriel
14. One and Only Wanderers
15. KellyCriterion
16. special ed
17.
18.
19.
20.

Sub-List
1. Cookies!

If we get 4 more by the weekend I'll send out role pm then. If, not I'll need to ponder what a good start schedule would be.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 07:37 AM

If we get 4 more by the weekend I'll send out role pm then. If, not I'll need to ponder what a good start schedule would be.

I will have more information on my job by end of the day today, 5p EST. I can let you know something then.

If the game makes before then, that's cool too.

storyteller0910

03-19-2010, 07:39 AM

Ooh, this player list is shaping up to be interesting.

Hey, NAF! Probably going to be voting for you at some point soon, so for the moment: good to have you in a game!

Meeko

03-19-2010, 07:50 AM

Screw it.

/in

Meeko

03-19-2010, 08:23 AM

There were many factors that pushed me into "all of a sudden" joining.

The least of which being, that I want to be playing Mafia in May.These games usually go for two months or so. That's a long time for me. Also, On the whole, I think my play is a LOT closer to average than everyone lets on. If I did have any breakthrough in Pond, a "regular" game like this one should be something I would want to embrace, rather than shun. Mafia variants [Borda] seem to not be friendly to someone who only has 7 games. This? This I can do. Hopefully, this I can do real well, for once.

That, and I'm addicted, too.

You can't have your "perfect" mafia game, if you don't play.

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 08:24 AM

At some point, story?
vote NAF1138 because he's bound to make a list eventually.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 08:25 AM

One wonders if we will get comment from One and Only Wanderer, per their experience. ;-)

[I think I just shot my post count for this game too, didn't I ? ]

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 08:26 AM

You can't have your "perfect" mafia game, if you don't play.

You're doing fine. Just stay frosty and play like you did in the opening of Pond Scum, you were doing great. All you gotta do is try not to get frustrated.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 08:27 AM

You're doing fine. Just stay frosty and play like you did in the opening of Pond Scum, you were doing great. All you gotta do is try not to get frustrated.

I'm already nearing doubling the number of posts as the next nearest poster for this game [Sach].

But, I have to ask. "Frosty" ?

Stanislaus

03-19-2010, 08:36 AM

I'd like to but the unspoken deal with my wife was that I'd start having conversations with her in the evenings again once Pond finished, so I'll be a spectator on this one.

One And Only Wanderers

03-19-2010, 08:39 AM

One wonders if we will get comment from One and Only Wanderer, per their experience. ;-)

[I think I just shot my post count for this game too, didn't I ? ]

we have played together Meeko - i am luvBWFC

Meeko

03-19-2010, 08:45 AM

we have played together Meeko - i am luvBWFC

Oh right, in a game where I was killed night 2. How can I forget? :)

No but seriously, I did not know this, obviously. Good to know. [I was amazed that, up until I saw a new name (not a new player) I knew everyone else.]

----

amrussel, sorry to hear that. But, I think it is better to have a wife than a Mafia game. Or so I've been told.

storyteller0910

03-19-2010, 08:48 AM

Also, On the whole, I think my play is a LOT closer to average than everyone lets on.

Are you under the impression that people generally think you're bad at this? Or, more accurately, are you under the impression that anyone out here thinks that we're good at it?

We've all had good games and terrible games. I don't know that any of us is particularly good or particularly bad, although some people thrive well in specific situations.

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 08:59 AM

I'm in. I'm going to be moving next week so I may not start off active but besides that I should be good.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:00 AM

Are you under the impression that people generally think you're bad at this? Or, more accurately, are you under the impression that anyone out here thinks that we're good at it?

We've all had good games and terrible games. I don't know that any of us is particularly good or particularly bad, although some people thrive well in specific situations.

I'm a "name" player. And I don't mean that in the good way. So, Yes to your first, on both.

To your second:

Yeah, one of my better games was as Scum. Go figure.

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 09:01 AM

"Frosty" ?

Frosty is kinda like cool, but more so.

In the sense of "breeze it, buzz it, easy does it, keep cool boy."

One And Only Wanderers

03-19-2010, 09:01 AM

Oh right, in a game where I was killed night 2. How can I forget? :)

No but seriously, I did not know this, obviously. Good to know. [I was amazed that, up until I saw a new name (not a new player) I knew everyone else.]

----

amrussel, sorry to hear that. But, I think it is better to have a wife than a Mafia game. Or so I've been told.

as to my experience, i have played here, on psychopathgame & on mafia scum, and on one in Giraffe currently which may not count due to being so gastardly it hurts.

I hate early game. I am at my best with data points to work with. Undfortunately I tend to get lynched day one a lot.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:03 AM

Drain and Digger:

Before we get toooo far into this one, Ewaffle sent both of you Xbox 360 Friend requests (through the 360). [per the Gamertag Thread].

Let me know if I should resend. :)

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 09:20 AM

I don't even have my xbox connected to the internet right now but give me a week or two and your request will be accepted. If nothing else I want to hear if you talk like you post. ;)

special ed

03-19-2010, 09:38 AM

That, and I'm addicted, too.

welcome to the club.

Hello, my name is Ed*. I knew I was addicted when I woke up in the middle of the night and logged in just to see if anyone had responded to the post I made before going to bed.

*for the record, my name isn't really Ed.

Pleonast

03-19-2010, 09:39 AM

Darn it, sach, I've already signed up for shaggy's game, or I'd join yours. I don't do two games at once, nor substitute, so sadly I'm out of this game. :(

I would be happy to be spoiled, though. :D

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:50 AM

welcome to the club.

Hello, my name is Ed*. I knew I was addicted when I woke up in the middle of the night and logged in just to see if anyone had responded to the post I made before going to bed.

*for the record, my name isn't really Ed.

What is "bed" you speak of?

No. But seriously, I have nights, when I get a crazy idea. I write it down, so I can be at peace with it. Head hits the pillow, and I have an additional idea that supplements the first. I get back up, and write that one down. Rinse Lather Repeat, and soon, I'm not getting sleep for the night.

Rysto

03-19-2010, 09:55 AM

/in

Alka Seltzer

03-19-2010, 09:58 AM

Have a good game everyone, I'll skip this one.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 10:12 AM

as to my experience, i have played here, on psychopathgame & on mafia scum, and on one in Giraffe currently which may not count due to being so gastardly it hurts.

I hate early game. I am at my best with data points to work with. Undfortunately I tend to get lynched day one a lot.

The Giraffe game doesn't count. That's a really painful game and I think everyone will be glad when it's over. Lot's of love to DogMom for trying, but she is in an impossible situation.

Sadly, I think it may have been so painful that it burnt out that board on mafia. Shaggy is having a hell of a time getting players for his game. I would sign up but I helped him rebalance it after he realized it was broken when he tried to lower the player count.

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 10:29 AM

By my count we're at 19/20 now. One more!

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 10:50 AM

surely i will play.

Trepa Mayfield

03-19-2010, 10:51 AM

Throw me on the sub list.

Mahaloth

03-19-2010, 11:05 AM

Peeker makes 20.

Will be get a rule listing, time frame, and so forth when we begin?

Jimmy Chitwood

03-19-2010, 11:19 AM

Screw it.

/in

Advice you don't want while we're still in the pregame stage, because I'm not going to talk about this kind of stuff once we start: it's a game. Every post that you read is going to be an attempt to play the game. To the extent that you take it personally or read it as an obvious criticism of you as anything other than a gamepiece, you're doing it wrong and/or getting played by somebody who knows he or she can play you.

I say that for a few reasons. One, you got really upset at me last time we played because we disagreed about a couple things, and I'm going to need you on my side if you're on my side again this time. Two, I watched the last game pretty well start-to-finish and it was very frustrating to watch you get angry and start taking the game personally, because it ruined the experience of reading the game. And three, most importantly to me, I don't want to play a game where every third post is a really frustrating diversion from actual gameplay, so I want to get all of this out there so I don't have to make frustratingly out-of-game posts once we start. Fourth, probably most importantly to everyone else, since I don't want to have this conversation anymore, my only real way to deal with it during the game if I think somebody is making it difficult to play the game is to vote for them.

How's that sound? Everybody agrees up front we don't care how anybody approaches the game philosophically or how "good" they are, that voting isn't a popularity contest and disagreements and contradictions are going to happen, and we just play the game?

storyteller0910

03-19-2010, 11:22 AM

Advice you don't want while we're still in the pregame stage, because I'm not going to talk about this kind of stuff once we start: it's a game. Every post that you read is going to be an attempt to play the game. To the extent that you take it personally or read it as an obvious criticism of you as anything other than a gamepiece, you're doing it wrong and/or getting played by somebody who knows he or she can play you.

I say that for a few reasons. One, you got really upset at me last time we played because we disagreed about a couple things, and I'm going to need you on my side if you're on my side again this time. Two, I watched the last game pretty well start-to-finish and it was very frustrating to watch you get angry and start taking the game personally, because it ruined the experience of reading the game. And three, most importantly to me, I don't want to play a game where every third post is a really frustrating diversion from actual gameplay, so I want to get all of this out there so I don't have to make frustratingly out-of-game posts once we start.

How's that sound? Everybody agrees up front we don't care how anybody approaches the game philosophically or how "good" they are, that voting isn't a popularity contest and disagreements and contradictions are going to happen, and we just play the game?

Yup. Agreed.

I am very excited to play in this game, btw.

Alka Seltzer

03-19-2010, 11:31 AM

Fourth, probably most importantly to everyone else, since I don't want to have this conversation anymore, my only real way to deal with it during the game if I think somebody is making it difficult to play the game is to vote for them.

I think this is a good idea. Town shouldn't be too reluctant to vote players for anti-town play, otherwise scum have a free pass to play anti-town.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 11:51 AM

Yup. Agreed.

I am very excited to play in this game, btw.

Me too. I haven't played in a real game in a long time, and this one has some heavy hitters in it. It should be lots of fun.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 11:57 AM

At the risk of seemingly not ""Getting it"" per Jimmy's point. :

Jimmy, wouldn't that statement have gone over better for everyone, if my quote was not included? I mean, yes, I get that you are talking to me. But, aren't you not also talking to everyone else? It seems kinda double standard-ish to make a glossing statement about essentially not attacking people, when you single out a single person to begin your discourse.

I get the general idea of "being on your side", however, I don't think you meant to imply "abandon your alignment and play with me", regardless.

But, since I feel I have to answer this, let me add one more thing.

My play is improving, it's just not all together yet. There is only one way to actually improve play, and that is, to play. To say nothing of the fact that we both are in different "places" starting off this game, than we were in the previous.

Jimmy Chitwood

03-19-2010, 12:11 PM

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 12:41 PM

TexCat
Tom Scud
Oredigger
special ed
Freudian Slit
Red Skeezix
Meeko
Mahaloth
storyteller
GuiriEnEspana
One and Only Wanderers
KellyCriterion
MHaye
NAF1138
Jimmy Chitwood
Rysto
Chonos
Drain Bead
Zeriel
peekercpa

Randomized Sub List
Cookies!
pedescribe

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 12:42 PM

The game will operate on a weekly schedule. Days will start at some semi-arbitrary point during the weekend; ideally Saturday Afternoon (2PM EDT), but no later than Sunday Morning. Days will end at precisely on Thursdays at 2:00 PM EDT by the SDMB clock. Board outages will not change the end of Day; plan carefully. All votes must have a time stamp of Thursday, 1:59 PM EDT or earlier. Posts and votes with time stamps Thursday, 2:00PM EDT or later will be ignored.

Night instructions are due by Saturday 2:00PM EDT by SDMB clock.
Failure to meet the deadline will result in no action.

Vote LikeThis
Votes must be in bold blue, on a single line, by itself. Please don't play hide the vote from the moderator. Everyone will be happier with accurate vote counts. (For strict interpretation, any vote in blue will be considered an intended vote. Bold, single line, by itself is a moderator request, not a requirement)

Unvote LikeThis
Unvotes are to be made in bold red, on a single line, by itself.

Messages to the moderator should be in bold green, on a single line.
The moderator encourages questions to the moderator to be sent via PM.

Lynches will be by plurality. The leading vote-getter at 2:00PM EDT on Thursday will die.
Ties are bad. Don't do them.
Ties will be resolved by timestamp. The tied player who received the most recent vote will live.
A No Lynch will occur if an uncontested plurality of votes accumulates for No Lynch. A tie with No Lynch will result in someone getting lynched as if the No Lynch votes didn't exist at all.

Substitutions/Removal:
I will allow substitutions up through the Dawn of Day Four. Past Day Four's Dawn, missing players will be removed from the game with no public indication of role or alignment. Substitutions may happen at anytime. Removals will occur at Dusk.

Prodding:
The moderator will not prod anyone. Failure to participate will result in substitution/removal.

Win Condition:
Individual win conditions will not change during the course of the game. Your team wins when all threats to your team are neutralized.
There are no third parties.

Closed Setup:
An inventory of roles will not be published.
A standard Town role PM will be public information.

Stuff you should already know:
- Game related communication outside the game thread is forbidden, except for scum who may communicate at Night and only at Night.
- Be nice.
- Only living players may post game relevant discussion to the game thread.
- Editing posts is not allowed. Punishment for an edited post will be removal from the game.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 12:46 PM

Yes, "everyone" indeed meant everyone. But yes, I was talking to you. If it's a double standard to address a concern toward a person who gave rise to the concern, then I will reluctantly admit that I have a double standard when it comes to wanting to avoid a needlessly personal approach to Mafia play.

Chiefly, though, I'm trying to avoid a double standard once the game starts in terms of that kind of approach to the game. If I (or presumably anyone else) disagrees with something you say or do once the game starts, I'd like it to be on the record that it's not because you're you, but because I disagree with what you said or did. And I don't think it will be good for the game if you respond as though there's always such an imbalance working against you.

Anyway, you can of course take what I have to say or leave it; for me it's enough to get it out there before I have a side to be on.

Can we all agree right now that from the moment Sach sends out the roles all communication is to be viewed as "in game" and should be treated as such? Nothing is personal, it's all mafia. That means that if I tell you to fuck of and die (unlikely, but it's happened, right sach;)) I am only telling you that "in game" and that I don't really hate you, and you are well within your rights to vote me for doing so.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 12:54 PM

When do we get our PMs?

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 12:55 PM

Patience. Jeez. Roles are going out in the order of the random list in post #69.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 12:56 PM

Sorry. I'm totally psyched!

storyteller0910

03-19-2010, 01:00 PM

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 01:02 PM

F-everyone's-I: I will probably not post much, throughout this game, on weekends. I will do my best to not vanish altogether, but any comments I do have time to make on weekends will usually be quickie responses and not in-depth analyses.

I am in the same boat. I will not be around almost at all from Friday at 5pm pacific time, until Monday at 8am pacific time. I don't see that changing even a little bit.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 01:05 PM

- Game related communication outside the game thread is forbidden, except for scum who may communicate at Night and only at Night.

Should I take this as worded, or is their a group of people you didn't mention here?

And / Or

Did Ed just rejoice at the implication, of what that rule means?

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 01:17 PM

I am in the same boat. I will not be around almost at all from Friday at 5pm pacific time, until Monday at 8am pacific time. I don't see that changing even a little bit.

I am as well. Once I move home I won't have access to a computer outside of work hours and unless someone has set up an unsecured wireless network while I was away my phone won't be able to access the net either.

(I'm planning on buying a computer with my tax money look for the thread asking for advice coming soon.)

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 01:19 PM

I'm already nearing doubling the number of posts as the next nearest poster for this game [Sach].

But, I have to ask. "Frosty" ?

Like's been said: Stay cool. Once the game starts, by definition nothing is personal--you're not "Meeko", you're "whatever your role PM says, and that identity happens to have the label of Meeko in this context". You play ever so much better when you're not convinced people are out to personally get you, so I'm advising you to realize that no one's out to personally get you. :D

Drain Bead

03-19-2010, 01:26 PM

we have played together Meeko - i am luvBWFC

HOW ON EARTH am I just now finding this out?

Drain and Digger:

Before we get toooo far into this one, Ewaffle sent both of you Xbox 360 Friend requests (through the 360). [per the Gamertag Thread].

Let me know if I should resend. :)

I'll try to remember to check tonight. I very rarely check stuff like that--I usually just turn it on and then start playing.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 01:27 PM

Confirming role PM.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 01:28 PM

I have a meeting. Role pm sending has been suspended.

Alka Seltzer

03-19-2010, 01:35 PM

Like's been said: Stay cool. Once the game starts, by definition nothing is personal--you're not "Meeko", you're "whatever your role PM says, and that identity happens to have the label of Meeko in this context". You play ever so much better when you're not convinced people are out to personally get you, so I'm advising you to realize that no one's out to personally get you. :D

This. Like I said on the spoiled board Meeko, I thought you played fairly well in the early game, but your play went badly downhill once you got frustrated. If you play badly in mafia, you have to expect to be criticised, it's not personal.

The game becomes far less enjoyable for everone when players get frustrated or annoyed with each other.

@One and Only Wanderers - I take it BW = Bolton Wanderers?

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 01:48 PM

we have played together Meeko - i am luvBWFC

HOW ON EARTH am I just now finding this out?

It came up during the Marvels game.

Oh, and PM received.

Red Skeezix

03-19-2010, 01:55 PM

PM Received.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 01:55 PM

Got my PM too.

storyteller0910

03-19-2010, 01:55 PM

PM received.

Jimmy Chitwood

03-19-2010, 02:07 PM

Got mine.

Rysto

03-19-2010, 02:07 PM

Got my PM too.

Son of a...

This means that sach stopped sending PMs just before he got to me.

Edit: Argh!

Drain Bead

03-19-2010, 02:13 PM

And it'll be a while for me too.

BigT

03-19-2010, 02:14 PM

Son of a...

This means that sach stopped sending PMs just before he got to me.

Edit: Argh!

Or you have a special new role: Guy without a PM.

Rysto

03-19-2010, 02:42 PM

Confirmed.

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 02:47 PM

PM Confirmed.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 02:53 PM

All roles have been assigned and sent by PM. If I missed you. SEND ME A PM. Do not post here.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 02:59 PM

Good Morning Town!

I guess I can't start by killing off NAF this time.
ShadowFacts (Town Mayor) is dead and will be helping with moderating duties for this game.

You know the drill. Nefarious forces have infiltrated some random town. Root out this evil before they manage to take over!
Day One will end on Thursday 25 March 2010 at 2:00PM EDT. All votes must have a time stamp of 1:59PM EDT or earlier to count.

special ed

03-19-2010, 03:04 PM

Advice you don't want while we're still in the pregame stage, because I'm not going to talk about this kind of stuff once we start: it's a game. Every post that you read is going to be an attempt to play the game. To the extent that you take it personally or read it as an obvious criticism of you as anything other than a gamepiece, you're doing it wrong and/or getting played by somebody who knows he or she can play you.

I say that for a few reasons. One, you got really upset at me last time we played because we disagreed about a couple things, and I'm going to need you on my side if you're on my side again this time. Two, I watched the last game pretty well start-to-finish and it was very frustrating to watch you get angry and start taking the game personally, because it ruined the experience of reading the game. And three, most importantly to me, I don't want to play a game where every third post is a really frustrating diversion from actual gameplay, so I want to get all of this out there so I don't have to make frustratingly out-of-game posts once we start. Fourth, probably most importantly to everyone else, since I don't want to have this conversation anymore, my only real way to deal with it during the game if I think somebody is making it difficult to play the game is to vote for them.

How's that sound? Everybody agrees up front we don't care how anybody approaches the game philosophically or how "good" they are, that voting isn't a popularity contest and disagreements and contradictions are going to happen, and we just play the game?

Except for peeker. I'm allowed to hold a grudge against peeker, right?*

*This comment was made tongue in cheek. And yes, my tongue was in my own cheek. and it was the one on my face.

I have my PM. I'm going to go read it now

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 03:05 PM

So, pulling a few items out of sach's setup post:

Ties will be resolved by timestamp. The tied player who received the most recent vote will live.

This is not as bad as some tiebreaking mechanisms I've seen (cf. LOST mafia). Ties are still bad, but not as bad as they might be.

Substitutions/Removal:
I will allow substitutions up through the Dawn of Day Four. Past Day Four's Dawn, missing players will be removed from the game with no public indication of role or alignment. Substitutions may happen at anytime. Removals will occur at Dusk.

This, however is extremely anti-Town, if it comes into play; if on Day 4 someone is a no-show, we will probably have to lynch that person in order to avoid having an information black hole. Hopefully, it won't come up.

Win Condition:
There are no third parties.

Worth knowing.

Closed Setup:
An inventory of roles will not be published.
A standard Town role PM will be public information.

Also worth knowing.

Stuff you should already know:
- Game related communication outside the game thread is forbidden, except for scum who may communicate at Night and only at Night.

Emphasis mine.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 03:07 PM

Wow, Shadow. I am so sorry for you. For what it's worth, you were a quality mayor.

Sach, didn't you say that a standard role PM would be posted, did I miss that somewhere? Anyway, my PM lists my religion, which I think is kind of odd. How about the rest of yall?

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 03:10 PM

You are Thomas Keller (Chef). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Keller

Rysto

03-19-2010, 03:12 PM

Well, we might as well get this discussion started: should we consider a name claim? Is there any point to it?

special ed

03-19-2010, 03:13 PM

You are Thomas Keller (Chef). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Keller

a random wikipedia game? This makes me rejoice!

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 03:15 PM

I doubt it'd help--the revealed name in the sample PM isn't from anything close to the same universe as mine, AND ShadowFact's "death" included a role but not a name so we have to believe we might not even get names upon death reveal.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 03:17 PM

Well, we might as well get this discussion started: should we consider a name claim? Is there any point to it?

I don't think it will get us anywhere one way or the other, so I am in favor. More information is always good.

Drain Bead

03-19-2010, 03:21 PM

Confirming receipt of role PM. Probably won't be on much until tomorrow morning.

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 03:22 PM

I think a name claim will at least lock in the potential roles a player could have. I’d be surprised if John Wayne was our doctor but not surprised if he was our vig. Of course the danger in this is that we'll give the scum places to start shooting.

I'm not against it but I enjoy trying to game the game almost as much as trying to play it.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 03:25 PM

By the way, in case you hadn't pieced it together yourself, the roles were assigned randomly.

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 03:27 PM

Should I take this as worded, or is their a group of people you didn't mention here?

I'm not understanding the question.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 03:29 PM

Should we also look closely at people who are cagey about claiming? Scum haven't had a chance to contact each other about deciding if they should make something up (a la the rotifier claim from last game).

Rysto

03-19-2010, 03:32 PM

I'm not understanding the question.

You've basically confirmed that if there are any masons, they can't communicate off-board.

Chronos

03-19-2010, 03:41 PM

Wow, that was quicker than I'd expected. Confirming receipt of role.

On to game business, I feel comfortable in saying that my role is that of a real (non-fictional) person, and that my PM included a link to that person's Wikipedia page. I do not yet have a firm opinion on the subject of a mass name-claim: I'd like to hear proponents and opponents give arguments on that subject first. If we do decide to do a mass name-claim, though, it should probably be toDay, before the Scum have a chance to coordinate, to increase the chance of catching someone in an inconsistency.

Meanwhile on the roles, I think that we can safely assume that we have a Doctor and a Detective, or close approximations thereof, given that sachertorte expressed the opinion in the just-finished Pond game that a lack of those roles in a closed setup is a huge bias against Town (since it means Scum faking those claims will never be counterclaimed).

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 03:41 PM

sachertorte

03-19-2010, 03:41 PM

You've basically confirmed that if there are any masons, they can't communicate off-board.

Well, since I never have masons communicate privately, it's probably a good bet that I'll continue the practice.

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 03:45 PM

Also, my name came with a parenthetical Capitalized Profession (like the sample PM); it seems like a reasonable guess that everyone else's did as well. Still, if we do a name claim we should probably leave those out as they'd make what was already a scum fisherman's paradise even more favorable.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 03:46 PM

Advice you don't want while we're still in the pregame stage, because I'm not going to talk about this kind of stuff once we start: it's a game. Every post that you read is going to be an attempt to play the game. To the extent that you take it personally or read it as an obvious criticism of you as anything other than a gamepiece, you're doing it wrong and/or getting played by somebody who knows he or she can play you.

I say that for a few reasons. One, you got really upset at me last time we played because we disagreed about a couple things, and I'm going to need you on my side if you're on my side again this time. Two, I watched the last game pretty well start-to-finish and it was very frustrating to watch you get angry and start taking the game personally, because it ruined the experience of reading the game. And three, most importantly to me, I don't want to play a game where every third post is a really frustrating diversion from actual gameplay, so I want to get all of this out there so I don't have to make frustratingly out-of-game posts once we start. Fourth, probably most importantly to everyone else, since I don't want to have this conversation anymore, my only real way to deal with it during the game if I think somebody is making it difficult to play the game is to vote for them.

How's that sound? Everybody agrees up front we don't care how anybody approaches the game philosophically or how "good" they are, that voting isn't a popularity contest and disagreements and contradictions are going to happen, and we just play the game?

how's life hoosier?

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 03:47 PM

Not sure what to think about name-claiming. For one thing, if the names were picked out at random from wikipedia, how do we even know if the names correspond to alignments? My name is kind of vaguely Town, but that's only one datapoint, and one that is only available to me.

On the other hand, I remember LOST mafia, where if Town had jumped straight to a name-claim we probably would have broken the game wide open.

Well, we don't. In fact a name claim is probably meaningless, but that's all the more reason to do it I think.

I can't see any real downside, and the upside is probably non existent, but when in doubt I say you should always opt for more information rather than less.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 03:49 PM

PM received.
vote story

i've just got to vote a strong player on the chance that they are scum or not.

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 03:52 PM

If we do decide to do a mass name-claim, though, it should probably be toDay, before the Scum have a chance to coordinate, to increase the chance of catching someone in an inconsistency.

I agree we need to do it toDay if we're going to and preferably early in the Day so we can work with the data a bit but I don't think we're going to catch any scum with it toDay. Since it appears that the roles are based on random wiki entries it won't take much to create a fake PM if the scum are obvious names. What I think the benefit would be is that once we claim names it will hurt the scum later in that, like I said earlier, John Wayne won't be able to claim to be the Doc. By limiting what powers the scum can claim before they claim them we've put ourselves a step ahead.

Just to be balance by telling the scum the towns potential powers we've made their job of hunting power roles easier as well

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 04:01 PM

On the plus side, the random element could also mess with the scum's role fishing - it's not like LOST where everyone knew that Jack would be the doctor et cetera.

On balance, I'd be in favor of a name claim.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 04:03 PM

well i can tell you that my name has nothing to do with game capabilities. name claims just muddy the waters and give scum a nice little hand hold on which to attack. or misguided players in the case of ed.

plus if i stay in this sucka long enough you will get some cool video links.

bwth, either way i can be cool with it.

Chronos

03-19-2010, 04:04 PM

Quoth Oredigger:I agree we need to do it toDay if we're going to and preferably early in the Day so we can work with the data a bit but I don't think we're going to catch any scum with it toDay.Right, I think it's unlikely that anything we do will catch us a Scum toDay (really, how often is the first-Day lynch correct, anyway? I've never seen it happen). But doing a name-claim toDay will prevent the Scum from saying "OK, I'm planning on claiming Doctor, so I'm going to take the name Clara Barton. Don't anybody pick Jonas Salk" (or whatever).

On the other hand, if we do have exactly one claimed name that looks consistent with Doctor, and exactly one claimed name that looks consistent with Detective, then the Scum will have a field day with their Night-kills. One suggestion I've seen (I think it was in Lost) was that the real Doctor should be encouraged to come up with a generic-looking fake claim: That way, the still-hidden Doctor could protect the presumably-outed Detective.

Quoth Tom Scud:
Also, my name came with a parenthetical Capitalized Profession (like the sample PM); it seems like a reasonable guess that everyone else's did as well. Still, if we do a name claim we should probably leave those out as they'd make what was already a scum fisherman's paradise even more favorable. Eh, if all the names are people with Wikipedia articles, it wouldn't be all that hard to look up what the person's profession is, anyway. I don't see that that makes much difference.

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 04:12 PM

On the other hand, if we do have exactly one claimed name that looks consistent with Doctor, and exactly one claimed name that looks consistent with Detective, then the Scum will have a field day with their Night-kills. One suggestion I've seen (I think it was in Lost) was that the real Doctor should be encouraged to come up with a generic-looking fake claim: That way, the still-hidden Doctor could protect the presumably-outed Detective.

That's not a bad idea; it was a terrible idea in LOST, but there was a much more limited name-space and greater chance of a collision in that game.

Eh, if all the names are people with Wikipedia articles, it wouldn't be all that hard to look up what the person's profession is, anyway. I don't see that that makes much difference.

In most cases the profession will be obvious; in others it might be a bit uncertain. I'm worried that it would give an extra clue to Sach's thinking for role-fishers, without really giving Town much help. OTOH, I guess NAF is right that more information generally favors Town.

special ed

03-19-2010, 04:44 PM

i've just got to vote a strong player on the chance that they are scum or not.

bitchslap peeker

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 04:47 PM

I'd be for a mass claim. Plus mine's not exactly a profession...it's more of a...um, race?

Meeko

03-19-2010, 04:53 PM

Confirming.

Looks like I'm already behind in reading.

One And Only Wanderers

03-19-2010, 05:07 PM

This. Like I said on the spoiled board Meeko, I thought you played fairly well in the early game, but your play went badly downhill once you got frustrated. If you play badly in mafia, you have to expect to be criticised, it's not personal.

The game becomes far less enjoyable for everone when players get frustrated or annoyed with each other.

@One and Only Wanderers - I take it BW = Bolton Wanderers?

Oh yeah. Come on you whites!

One And Only Wanderers

03-19-2010, 05:13 PM

OK from what I have read so far my pm seems to fit the picture. I have a name and a....description. I wouldn't quite say it's a profession.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 05:20 PM

I'd be for a mass claim. Plus mine's not exactly a profession...it's more of a...um, race?

Well, I already said that mine was a religion, so I don't think it's all that weird that yours is a race.

Also, just to bring up other topics of conversation, Tom has talked about fishing a lot so far this game. I figure I should bring this up now since it's been a while since I have played over here.

Scum don't need to fish. Scum, if they are any good, won't actively fish. Scum will be told everything they need to know about other roles by townies doing their damnedest to prevent scum from learning anything, because scum know what to look for. Holding back information for fear of helping scum is, 90 times out of 100, a bad idea for town. It's a good idea the other 10% of the time, and I trust that everyone in the game is capable of deciding if it is a good idea on their own in any given situation. But remember to weigh how potentially useful the information could be against how potentially damaging it could be. I have seen towns repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot by being to secretive. I have hardly ever seen town give anything away by being too open.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 05:26 PM

Well, I actually have a name, then a race in parentheses and then a description that I really can't...describe, without giving it away.

Anyway. I do agree that if we're going to mass claim, we'd better do it toDay. Possibly this weekend?

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 05:28 PM

I can't this weekend, but I am happy to wait another hour and a half before telling you all who I am.

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:30 PM

Scum don't need to fish. Scum, if they are any good, won't actively fish. Scum will be told everything they need to know about other roles by townies doing their damnedest to prevent scum from learning anything, because scum know what to look for. Holding back information for fear of helping scum is, 90 times out of 100, a bad idea for town. It's a good idea the other 10% of the time, and I trust that everyone in the game is capable of deciding if it is a good idea on their own in any given situation. But remember to weigh how potentially useful the information could be against how potentially damaging it could be. I have seen towns repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot by being to secretive. I have hardly ever seen town give anything away by being too open.

I disagree with this. I can recall a few instances of Scum actively fishing. Now, it may be unwise for them to do so, but sometimes they'll do it anyway, thinking they are being clever. I will not give apparent fishing attempts a pass. But, that said, I also won't condemn someone because of it. It all depends on the circumstances

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:31 PM

I can't this weekend, but I am happy to wait another hour and a half before telling you all who I am.
I'm willing to name claim just to get the discussion over with and get on with the actual game.

Drain Bead

03-19-2010, 05:34 PM

If we're going to mass name claim, how do we set up the order?

Meeko

03-19-2010, 05:34 PM

By the way, in case you hadn't pieced it together yourself, the roles were assigned randomly.

Not sure what to think about name-claiming. For one thing, if the names were picked out at random from wikipedia, how do we even know if the names correspond to alignments? My name is kind of vaguely Town, but that's only one datapoint, and one that is only available to me.

On the other hand, I remember LOST mafia, where if Town had jumped straight to a name-claim we probably would have broken the game wide open.

Sach, I'm glad you told us it was random. I wasn't too sure.

Tom: Some of us in that game did break it wide open.

In the spirit of claiming, and in the spirit of my role :

I am a surrealist Artist*.

So lets see what we can do with that piece first.

*And If the player playing him isn't surreal as well, I don't know what to tell you guys.

Are our roles that random, or should we pay attention to DOB and Date of Death, etc?

Do we have anyone still alive?

Mahaloth

03-19-2010, 05:35 PM

This is not as bad as some tiebreaking mechanisms I've seen (cf. LOST mafia). Ties are still bad, but not as bad as they might be.

Hey, I liked that LOST mafia tiebreaker. I think it was creative and eloquently implemented.

;)

Oh, and I got my PM.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 05:39 PM

NETA: Location of Birth / Death ? As race, apparently is mentioned. Mod-WIFOM on why we were given certain pieces and not others.

Rysto

03-19-2010, 05:41 PM

If we're going to mass name claim, how do we set up the order?

We use random.org's incredibly handy list randomizer (http://www.random.org/lists/?mode=advanced).

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:42 PM

NETA: Location of Birth / Death ? As race, apparently is mentioned. Mod-WIFOM on why we were given certain pieces and not others.

If I had to guess, he picked articles at random from Wikipedia and assigned them to us as names. I would also assume he assigned roles in a separate random fashion.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 05:43 PM

I disagree with this. I can recall a few instances of Scum actively fishing. Now, it may be unwise for them to do so, but sometimes they'll do it anyway, thinking they are being clever. I will not give apparent fishing attempts a pass. But, that said, I also won't condemn someone because of it. It all depends on the circumstances

So you don't actually disagree, you just felt like being disagreeable? :dubious:

I don't think we have opposing points of view based on what you said, and the meat of my argument was to not hold back information that is potentially useful to town because it might also be potentially useful to scum.

:p

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 05:44 PM

If we're going to mass name claim, how do we set up the order?

Given the time constraints I'd suggest using Sach's random list for role distrobution. I'd be willing to go forward with the claims before the weekend otherwise people are going to keep giving out their roles piecemeal.

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:45 PM

We use random.org's incredibly handy list randomizer (http://www.random.org/lists/?mode=advanced).

or we just claim, like this:

You are Guy de Maupassant (Writer). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_de_Maupassant

Meeko

03-19-2010, 05:46 PM

If I had to guess, he picked articles at random from Wikipedia and assigned them to us as names. I would also assume he assigned roles in a separate random fashion.

Do I want to ask about the entire Special Ed "Loves the Random page on Wikipedia" backstory? I got a hunch that something happened there. Post restriction ?

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:46 PM

So you don't actually disagree, you just felt like being disagreeable? :dubious:

I don't think we have opposing points of view based on what you said, and the meat of my argument was to not hold back information that is potentially useful to town because it might also be potentially useful to scum.

:p

OK, it seemed to me you were dismissing fishing as a datapoint all together. I'm not willing to do that. Of the 2 Day 1 Scum lynches I can recall, 1 of them was completely based on a fishing attempt (Evil Dead).

special ed

03-19-2010, 05:48 PM

Do I want to ask about the entire Special Ed "Loves the Random page on Wikipedia" backstory? I got a hunch that something happened there. Post restriction ?

I was an outed Scum. With the urging of my Scum teammates, I flooeded the thread with garbage, including random wikipedia articles. or wikiepedia articles related to a word someone used. It was an attempt to get them to end the Day early. There was also a lot of other trash. pede deleted all my posts though, so there's nothing left for history to review.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 05:51 PM

Re-reading Tom Scud; I have to say I fall in line with him. Name claiming right now seems to give too much information to Scum, too easily, too soon. Too many questions still to be asked on everything, but a knee jerk reaction to demand it. Someone has the upper hand here, in direct regards to name claiming, and I'm not sure it's Town.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 05:55 PM

Did you read my post meek? What do you think about that?

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 05:56 PM

I was an outed Scum. With the urging of my Scum teammates, I flooeded the thread with garbage, including random wikipedia articles. or wikiepedia articles related to a word someone used. It was an attempt to get them to end the Day early. There was also a lot of other trash. pede deleted all my posts though, so there's nothing left for history to review.

i counseled prudence and restraint in my revisionist history mind.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 06:00 PM

neta: it sure pissed off the town if i recall.

gettysburg will always go down as one of the most hilarious days in a Day that i will ever encounter. i still consider that one of the most brilliant scum machinations to be implemented.

Mahaloth

03-19-2010, 06:01 PM

i counseled prudence and restraint in my revisionist history mind.

Right. :)

Anyway, I'm OK with the name claim thing if that is what we want to do. I agree that we could either use the random order that our names were listed in or that we could use random.org to make the list.

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 06:05 PM

OK, it seemed to me you were dismissing fishing as a datapoint all together. I'm not willing to do that. Of the 2 Day 1 Scum lynches I can recall, 1 of them was completely based on a fishing attempt (Evil Dead).

No, I'm not saying we should get rid of it, but rather that it makes for a weak data point rather than a strong one and that we shouldn't live in fear of scum learning stuff about town, because it's likely that they either already know or don't really care.

special ed

03-19-2010, 06:05 PM

No, I'm not saying we should get rid of it, but rather that it makes for a weak data point rather than a strong one and that we shouldn't live in fear of scum learning stuff about town, because it's likely that they either already know or don't really care.

OK, then you are right, we do agree.

Zeriel

03-19-2010, 06:05 PM

vote story

i've just got to vote a strong player on the chance that they are scum or not.

Are you making a joke, or are you just suicidal?

vote peekercpa for blatantly anti-town play.

special ed

03-19-2010, 06:07 PM

i counseled prudence and restraint in my revisionist history mind.

The Scum thread is still available, where you suggested and encouraged me in what I was doing.

neta: it sure pissed off the town if i recall.

gettysburg will always go down as one of the most hilarious days in a Day that i will ever encounter. i still consider that one of the most brilliant scum machinations to be implemented.

it was your idea :)

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 06:21 PM

hey this should help z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxevBjM0l7I

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 06:22 PM

Since special ed claimed, I'll help him get the ball rolling.

You are Patroclus (Greek). You are Fictional. You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patroclus

Tom Scud

03-19-2010, 06:28 PM

All righty then:

You are Busby Berkeley (Choreographer). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busby_Berkeley

Oredigger77

03-19-2010, 06:34 PM

I guess we're going in a random order but here's mine.

Role: Random Mafia
You are George Washington (President). You win with theTown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 06:39 PM

[ quote]Role: Random Mafia
You are Joesph Smith (Mormon). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith [/quote]

NAF1138

03-19-2010, 06:40 PM

Well, fuck. That's what I get for posting distracted.

One more time.

My role:

Role: Random Mafia
You are Joesph Smith (Mormon). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

Also, the 60 second buffer blows.

Red Skeezix

03-19-2010, 07:09 PM

The game hasn't even been going for a day and I'm already playing catch up.

You are Ogden Nash (Poet). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogden_Nash

TexCat

03-19-2010, 07:25 PM

Gosh. This really started fast. It looks like I am a little late to the discussion about whether to name claim or not, and that we are going ahead with the claiming. I can't see how name claiming can help scum, and I am all in favor of giving town as much info as possible, so I normally would definitely be in favor of name claiming, but with this name?

You are Benedict Arnold (Traitor). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold

Chronos

03-19-2010, 07:40 PM

OK, I guess we did decide to do the mass name-claim, then. I would have liked a little more discussion first before starting it, to make sure we're not doing something stupid, but then, I'm always reluctant to do things that can't be undone.

Now that we've started, though, there's no sense holding back:

I'm Jesse Jackson (Reverend).

Mahaloth

03-19-2010, 07:41 PM

OK, I guess we are claiming. Are we using any order at all? I'll just go, then.

You are Samuel Johnson (Critic). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Johnson

I guess "dictionary writer" or "boring dude" was too long for the description. :)

TexCat

03-19-2010, 07:44 PM

lexicographer is same length as choreographer, though.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 07:44 PM

All righty then:

i like elizabeth berkley better.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://starz.ru/celebrities/Elizabeth_Berkley.jpg&imgrefurl=http://starz.ru/celebrities/Elizabeth_Berkley.htm&usg=__lFG6h63JCDS2S_MTSx44KpubiT4=&h=600&w=505&sz=91&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=ZfpEdsbmV4yx5M:&tbnh=135&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchristie%2Bberkley%2Bnude%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4ADFA_enUS360US360% 26tbs%3Disch:1

ShadowFacts

03-19-2010, 08:53 PM

Hey everyone! It's me, the Town Mayor. I'm gonna keep taxes low, the roads fixed, terrorists at bay and **THWAKK!**

...

Hmm, I appear to be dead. That kinda sucks. Oh well, I guess I'll hang around to do post counts and maybe answer questions if needed until this all gets resolved. Good luck, everyone!

Drain Bead

03-19-2010, 09:07 PM

Here's mine:

You are Eva Peron (Spiritual Leader of the Nation of Argentina). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Peron

I prefer Evita, though.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:43 PM

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:51 PM

I would have liked to have waited until at least one night had passed. I don't know what information it would have brought.

But, I still have a sizeable stack. Not gonna go all in on this argument. Gonna "fold" my stance against it.

You are Joan Miró (Aritst). You win with the Town.

1. Since when does Name Claim bring with it alignment ?
2. Should we look at the later claimers since we didn't order the claims? OR the first few claimers? WIFOM. -- That is, I can't tell what Scum are doing here.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 09:57 PM

On retrospect, I would look closer at the earlier claimers.

Chronos

03-19-2010, 10:23 PM

At this point, I don't think we can read too much into the order of claims at all. First of all, the Scum haven't had a chance to talk amongst themselves about any strategy they might have for gaming the claims. Second, they've been coming quick enough that it looks like each person claimed as soon as they saw the thread and that name claims were occurring (thought this wouldn't apply to the first one or perhaps two). Third, the primary way that Scum would attempt to game a mass-claim would be to try to be the last to claim, so they know what everyone else has claimed and won't accidentally claim the same as anyone else, but when the name-space appears to be "anyone with a Wikipedia page", the chances of that happening are negligible, so I don't know of any particular advantage they'd have in going at a particular time.

There is, I suppose, an argument to be made that Scum might want to be the first to claim, or the last to claim, or in the middle, or whatever, to give themselves cover. The difficulty there, though, is that you can make the case for any claim order at all, so it doesn't give us any information. And even if a Scum did decide that it was best to claim first, say, e wouldn't be able to put that into practice unless e happened to see the thread when the claims were just starting. Most aspects of post timing in this game are due to individuals' schedules, not actually anything game-related.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 10:41 PM

Chronos, you offer good points. You are basically saying that claim order is a null tell. Correct?

You are basically stating that the "no particular order" (instead of a random order) actually benefits Town. Correct?

But, I think this road leads to the hot button issue of late "Scum would never do that". Scum might not have been able to communicate yet, but they do know their brethren. If one of them have already claimed, it is possible that the rest fell in line, on some incredibly good guess or reading between the lines or other such coincidence.

Since special ed claimed, I'll help him get the ball rolling.

Last time Freudian this, it was followed by listing the members, of (her?) non-VT cohort.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 10:56 PM

I never claimed in the last game.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 11:05 PM

I never claimed in the last game.

I'm not so sure I follow you. Why are you saying this?

We both know that you were a mason. IIRC, You did have a death reveal, and Drain also stated there were no other masons after your death.

peekercpa

03-19-2010, 11:14 PM

yeh, i claimed early because i am scum (not) and chose the wicked witch of the west. that sure instills a lot of town confidence i am sure. so yep claim order and a buck gets you coffee at mickey d's.

and crud z are you really that obtuse?

two guys are in an eleveator.

one guy turns to the other and says: "ok, who farted?"

get it.

Freudian Slit

03-19-2010, 11:24 PM

I'm not so sure I follow you. Why are you saying this?

We both know that you were a mason. IIRC, You did have a death reveal, and Drain also stated there were no other masons after your death.

I know I was a mason, but you said "last time I did this." And I never made a role claim, that's all.

Meeko

03-19-2010, 11:39 PM

I know I was a mason, but you said "last time I did this." And I never made a role claim, that's all.

And, I'm saying that your "never made a role claim" statement is completely irrelevant to anything else.

Chronos

03-19-2010, 11:57 PM

Chronos, you offer good points. You are basically saying that claim order is a null tell. Correct?

You are basically stating that the "no particular order" (instead of a random order) actually benefits Town. Correct?I'm saying it's a null tell, and therefore neither benefits nor hurts Town. Given my druthers, I'd have preferred a set order, just to be absolutely certain Scum weren't gaming it, but on the other hand, that would have taken more time (both to set up the order in a way that would make clear that the Scum weren't gaming it, and to wait for the claims to come in as folks' schedules would allow).

And I have no idea what you're trying to get at with Freudian. You said "last time she did this": What's this "this" that she supposedly did?

Meeko

03-20-2010, 12:17 AM

And I have no idea what you're trying to get at with Freudian. You said "last time she did this": What's this "this" that she supposedly did?

Since special ed claimed, I'll help him get the ball rolling.

Last time Freudian <<Did>> this, it was followed by listing the members, of (her?) non-VT cohort.

Early on in Pond. Freudian was all "Wink wink nudge nudge, I like what Drain and Meeko are saying here, wink wink nudge nudge."

One And Only Wanderers

03-20-2010, 12:47 AM

Well, fuck. That's what I get for posting distracted.

One more time.

My role:

Also, the 60 second buffer blows.

Joseph is spelled wrong in both your attempts to claim

vote NAF1138

I assume it's spelled wrong because you typed instead of quoting your pm.

I am

Role: Random Mafia
You are Fu Mingxia (Olympic Gold Medalist). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Mingxia

Chronos

03-20-2010, 01:39 AM

Quoth Meeko:Early on in Pond. Freudian was all "Wink wink nudge nudge, I like what Drain and Meeko are saying here, wink wink nudge nudge." Because clearly, it's impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything anyone else ever said without having some special knowledge. I think one thing you need to learn in these games, Meeko, is to be able to look at the game from a generic point of view. From your knowledge that the three of you were all Masons, that might have stood out, but from anyone else's point of view, it was completely unremarkable. Heck, I didn't even notice it, and I did know who you all were.

Moving on, quoth Wanderers:
Joseph is spelled wrong in both your attempts to claim

vote NAF1138

I assume it's spelled wrong because you typed instead of quoting your pm.
Clearly, somebody made a typo, here. But why assume it was NAF? It seems just as likely to me that it was sachertorte when he wrote the PM in the first place. And the fact that it's misspelled the same way both times looks like NAF was copying and pasting from somewhere; why not from the actual PM?

Vote One and Only Wanderers for jumping to unjustified conclusions.

One And Only Wanderers

03-20-2010, 01:46 AM

Chronos

03-20-2010, 01:59 AM

If we were doing full role claims, I would have quoted. But we're just doing names. I prefer to leave as much ambiguity as possible, at this time at least, as to whether or not I am a power role.

GuiriEnEspaña

03-20-2010, 03:19 AM

Checking in.
You are Gustave Eiffel (Architect). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Eiffel

Jimmy Chitwood

03-20-2010, 07:26 AM

For the record, deciding on and actually proceeding with a name claim on Friday night, and the first day of the first Day? I think I'm against that.

how's life hoosier?

peeker! It keeps going; I'll tell you how well after UK/Wake Forest.

Clearly, somebody made a typo, here. But why assume it was NAF? It seems just as likely to me that it was sachertorte when he wrote the PM in the first place. And the fact that it's misspelled the same way both times looks like NAF was copying and pasting from somewhere; why not from the actual PM?

Vote One and Only Wanderers for jumping to unjustified conclusions.

Whilst we're on it - any reason you haven't quoted yours? You just stated it.

Speaking of unjustified... Seems obvious enough to me that there's very good reason not to go around pushing everyone for a complete C&P of his or her role, but it seems to be the case that I'm in the minority there. Hell, I think the better question is: why have so many people apparently done full role claims? Granted, I'm not much steeped in Mafia theory or anything, but I imagine there must be some reason that everyone's role PMs aren't public information. There was a brief discussion of a name claim -- a name claim -- and somehow we're already at the point where it's worthy of further investigation when a player actually claims his name but no more? That seems wildly shortsighted to me.

I don't see what good it does the town to push Chronos on that particular point, especially since it ain't hard to fabricate the vanilla role that's already been provided. I can, however, see the anti-town motivation behind sniffing it out.

Vote One and Only Wanderers

for what looks like fishing.

MHaye

03-20-2010, 07:45 AM

Morning folks. Or should that be afternoon?

I think it's worthwhile to remind everyone not to carry grudges from the last game. Just because someone (no names, no pack drill) was scummy scum in the last game, doesn't mean that they're scum this game. Don't go pursuing them for revenge in wiping the floor with you last game. That will hurt your side. Don't do it.

More later.

One And Only Wanderers

03-20-2010, 09:21 AM

everyone else had quoted. ppl not doing so already stand out without me saying anything. Fishing? If I were scum I would know for sure Chronos' alignment and if he is tpown he would already be noted. I had no need to say anything in thread. Apart from... I'm not scum, i'm trying to find scum. Surely you're not expecting a strong case on anyone this early in the game, and yet we still have to play. So I look for any deviations i can.

Meeko

03-20-2010, 09:28 AM

Quoth Meeko:Because clearly, it's impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything anyone else ever said without having some special knowledge. I think one thing you need to learn in these games, Meeko, is to be able to look at the game from a generic point of view. From your knowledge that the three of you were all Masons, that might have stood out, but from anyone else's point of view, it was completely unremarkable. Heck, I didn't even notice it, and I did know who you all were.

Snipped

1.I'm NOT saying that it is "impossible that anyone would ever agree with anything...." I am just looking at the fact that a player was named, by name.

1b.WIFOM on if Freudian would do this again, on purpose. Then again, if it is a "bad habit" we all know how hard those die.

2.Town needs to look at the game from a "Town" point of view. If we stop doing that, we begin to lose the game. Multiple players guilty of this in Pond, methinks.

2b. If everyone were to embrace a "generic" point of view, town would not mobilize [for lack of a better word.], -- And, scum passes very easily as "Generic", not so much as "Town". ""Town"" should not knowingly reduce itself to a lowest common denominator. Town most often ends up doing it on their own, anyway.

3.In one sense, being the Mod for a game means you can speak for all of the players. But in another sense, you can't. If you could read my mind, or any other player's mind for that matter, I would stop playing Mafia right now. No point in playing.

3b.Speaking of Mods, I'm gonna take a play from Sach's playbook. I Reject the premise that you speak for everyone else. As far as their, and your, capacity as player in this, or from your game, you have no better read on them than I do. You can't throw out "unremarkable" based on one opinion.

4.I'm not sure if it more my problem, or more your problem, that, that bread-loaf went unnoticed.

4b.I wonder if scum can obtain Town Cred by dismissing other players. Is there a infinite amount of Town cred, or does the finite amount just change possession multiple times? [That is to say, I wonder if there is not a Scum Freudian, and a Scum Chronos, one moving in to protect the other. All of scum's organization so far this game has to be out in the open.]

----

Believe it or not, my family thinks and talks a lot like I do. To that end, we have our own vocabulary. We use the term "New Paragraph" (Yes, we verbally say it out loud) in our conversations to signal that we just got sidetracked on something, and we are taking you along, kicking and screaming.

New Paragraph ::

I'm perfectly ambiguous here. While I enjoy this tit for tat, it feels a bit like shaking dry [as a dog would do] after a cold shower. I mean, you guys got your reasons, I somehow came out incredibly organized. But, I feel like I'm a tad heavy handed. But, I don't want that to be a negative on me. I just wonder if this is how Mafia is played. -- Takes more work than I was giving it.

Meeko

03-20-2010, 09:30 AM

Where are we with the Name Claim?

1.Assume we have all the claims. What do we do with that information, at that point?

2.Still not clear as to why we included alignment. I wonder if doing that affords scum too much space.

3. I guess my default play of claiming late on Day 1 is gonna be shot this time around.

Let's hope I stay coherent enough to get past it.

MHaye

03-20-2010, 09:35 AM

That didn't take as long as I feared it might.

I'm not convinced of the benefits of a nameclaim. This is called “Random Mafia” and I expect that the names and roles are completely independent. In short, the only thing a name claim can tell us is what names people have.

However, I also can't see a reason to hold back, since if I'm right that name and roles are independent, any role might be paired with any name. So, for example, there is no reason to assume that the hypothetical John Wayne would be the hypothetical vig. John Wayne might easily be the Doc. There would (assuming there is one John Wayne and one Doc) be a 5% chance of that. (If rolenames did match roles, then the hypothetical John Wayne might as easily be a town Tough Guy – capable of surviving a Nightkill.)

That being said, although I would have preferred a bit more discussion, I can't see any reason not to reveal my name.You are Tim Horton (Canadian). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Horton

Jimmy, I haven't yet seen anyone make a roleclaim, just a nameclaim. I do think, though, that differences in the method of claiming by individual players isn't yet worth further investigation. The issue may become more relevant later.

Back later.

Zeriel

03-20-2010, 09:44 AM

and crud z are you really that obtuse?

Joke votes happen BEFORE game start, peeks. Also, chill.

unvote peeker

You are Lysander (Lover). You are Fictional. You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_(Shakespeare)

Meeko

03-20-2010, 09:46 AM

So Mhaye is our drug dealer for this game. Good to know.

What? Caffeine is a drug.

I'll take a double double.

Zeriel

03-20-2010, 09:47 AM

Meeko

03-20-2010, 09:50 AM

Interesting Zeriel .

You are Lysander (Lover). You are Fictional. You win with the Town.

1. How does "Fictional" click in, into the rest of the game?

1b. It would be interesting if Power Roles had certain "handles" that only work on given keywords of other roles.

1c.Then again, that would be a tad too much Star Wars CCG than Mafia. I still perfer MAGIC, but keywords are rare in M:TG, and work differently.

2. Also, what about "Lover"? That is, as far as game set up, is Z linked to anyone else? Or is it simply mundane?

Mahaloth

03-20-2010, 10:09 AM

I'm trying to keep up and process the game. Here is my extremely quickly put together list of who claimed what and in what order it all went down.

Please check this and correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to get a collected list out.

I think this is right:

1. Specialed - Guy de Maupassant

2. Freudian – Patroclus

3. Tom Scud – Bugsy Berkley

4. Oredigger – George Washington

5. NAF – Joseph Smith

6. Red Skeezix – Ogden Nash

7. Texcat- Benadict Arnold

8. Chronos – Jesse Jackson

9. Mahaloth – Samuel Johnson

10. Drain – Eva Peron

11. Meeko – Joan Miro

12. Oneandonly – Fumingxia

13. Guiri- Gustave Eiffel

14. MHaye – Tim Hornton

15. Zeriel – Lysander

Is this right so far? I typed it out instead of copying everyone's claim post, so spelling may be off. I had to go back and adjust order as I realized posts slipped past me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Jimmy Chitwood

03-20-2010, 10:09 AM

everyone else had quoted.

A decision I don't think was for the best, but hardly a good reason to exacerbate the situation.

ppl not doing so already stand out without me saying anything. Fishing? If I were scum I would know for sure Chronos' alignment and if he is tpown he would already be noted. I had no need to say anything in thread.

Yes, people do stand out if they don't post a full PM, which is why I don't like it, would prefer not to do so myself, and hope nobody else does, but that standing out is a symptom of (what is in my opinion) the problem, not a good reason to make an even bigger deal out of it.

And obviously you didn't need to post anything either way, but you did, and having done so the question is why you might have done that. It's easy for me to believe that on day one the motivation to jump at Chronos' relative pithiness could come from a scum sensing that he can sniff out role information. Like you say, it's far from a smoking gun but hey, day one.

Jimmy, I haven't yet seen anyone make a roleclaim, just a nameclaim. I do think, though, that differences in the method of claiming by individual players isn't yet worth further investigation. The issue may become more relevant later.

No, of course nobody has claimed a role explicitly, but it seems to me that by putting quote tags around a message that matches exactly the vanilla PM that was posted by sachertorte, one makes a kind of implicit statement about who they are. Maybe not necessarily, I guess, but when coupled with Wanderers' "Why didn't you do that" it really quickly became an unnecessarily fraught with peril way to go about saying what our names are, if that's all we're interested in exchanging. Maybe it's just me; I've never played a game that opened with a claim like this, so maybe I'm reading too much into quoting vs. just claiming.

I suppose it won't do me much good to go on about it without coughing up my name, though, so: Alexander Graham Bell (Inventor).

Interesting that we now have a fictional lover and a fictional stealer of his friend's armor to go get killed in. No third parties, so fictional must mean something else, but I can't imagine what.

TexCat

03-20-2010, 10:12 AM

If we were doing full role claims, I would have quoted. But we're just doing names. I prefer to leave as much ambiguity as possible, at this time at least, as to whether or not I am a power role.

huh? I'm not sure I get it. Is there some reason you are drawing attention to yourself in this way, Chronos? Are you saying that you think everyone who has quoted from their pm is vanilla?

Mahaloth

03-20-2010, 10:36 AM

So, that is:

16. Jimmy - Alexander Graham Bell

Who does this leave unclaimed?

Rysto

03-20-2010, 10:42 AM

I have yet to claim.

You are Petr Cech (Goalkeeper). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_%C4%8Cech

Tom Scud

03-20-2010, 10:44 AM

Peeker also claimed Wicked Witch of the West, presumably also fictional.

Tom Scud

03-20-2010, 10:45 AM

I think that leaves story and red; story has said he won't be playing much if at all on weekends.

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 10:53 AM

I unvoted Peeker, but then I note he hasn't unvoted Story yet. Care to explain why you're getting mad at me for making a clearly anti-town play, that is so anti-town it got you killed Day One last game, when you haven't rescinded it yet?

well he hasn't been in to call me full of it so maybe he is terrified at my proficiency and seeks not to engage.

but if it makes you feel any better i will definitely waffle since the first vote was just traditional. seriously any vote other than on him to start off and i would get a ration of crud for omg they must be on the same team peek hasn't voted him.

unvote storyteller

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 10:54 AM

neta: that was a bytche to code.

Tom Scud

03-20-2010, 10:57 AM

Strike that, red claimed ogden nash.

Tom Scud

03-20-2010, 10:58 AM

Ah, it's story and kelly.

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 11:04 AM

Peeker also claimed Wicked Witch of the West, presumably also fictional.

no she's real, i promise. i saw her once in college while we were having a microdot party.

Chronos

03-20-2010, 11:40 AM

huh? I'm not sure I get it. Is there some reason you are drawing attention to yourself in this way, Chronos? Are you saying that you think everyone who has quoted from their pm is vanilla? Maybe they're Vanilla, maybe they're power roles and have edited out that part of their PMs. Scum could at least make a guess which it is in each case, though, and if they are power roles, it might give Scum a hint as to how the real power role PMs are structured. And frankly, I see no advantage to a direct copy-and-paste.

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 11:51 AM

Maybe they're Vanilla, maybe they're power roles and have edited out that part of their PMs. Scum could at least make a guess which it is in each case, though, and if they are power roles, it might give Scum a hint as to how the real power role PMs are structured. And frankly, I see no advantage to a direct copy-and-paste.

rut roh. i agree.

i guess, if someone was so obtuse as to post that they are not town then giddyup. so yeh, i didn't post my pm but i made it clear what my name is which of course doesn't mean squat.

yaknow i always like these beginning of the game gambits. they make town all warm and cozy that they are doing something. fcs, we now know everyone's name in the game. that's some serious progress.

of course 999 out of 1000 times it doesn't amount to jack.

but of course i will sleep well tonight knowing that rysto is petr.

ok, serious question what up with the vowel challenged? i mean is it a vestige of the ussr when even vowels could be construed as resource wasting propogated by the capitalists?

TexCat

03-20-2010, 11:53 AM

I see no particular advantage in copy/paste either, other than it was faster for me, being such a slow typist. You seemed to be saying that there was some disadvantage, that's what I didn't understand and still don't. I don't buy that the scum could figure something out by us all posting PMs, all identical to the vanilla pm.

Chronos

03-20-2010, 12:31 PM

i guess, if someone was so obtuse as to post that they are not town then giddyup. so yeh, i didn't post my pm but i made it clear what my name is which of course doesn't mean squat.Actually you didn't make it clear at all. First you posted a link to a YouTube video with no context whatsoever, then you said you claimed Wicked Witch of the West early when you hadn't. Frankly, I thought you were being sarcastic in that second post, because I hadn't bothered to follow the YouTube link, and there was no other mention of the Wicked Witch before that point.

Freudian Slit

03-20-2010, 12:37 PM

yeh, i claimed early because i am scum (not) and chose the wicked witch of the west.

Chose? Why did you use that word?

TexCat

03-20-2010, 12:55 PM

TexCat

03-20-2010, 01:01 PM

Actually you didn't make it clear at all. First you posted a link to a YouTube video with no context whatsoever, then you said you claimed Wicked Witch of the West early when you hadn't. Frankly, I thought you were being sarcastic in that second post, because I hadn't bothered to follow the YouTube link, and there was no other mention of the Wicked Witch before that point.

I did follow the link briefly, but might have just as easily thought he was claiming Brittany Spears, or as I actually thought at the time, he was just following through on his earlier promise to post some videos, perhaps randomly.

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 01:02 PM

Chose? Why did you use that word?

ok, let me help you guys at with a little bit of, what's the word, it means kind of like "oh brother can you believe it", a crudinsky how inopportune, oh yeh that's right irony.

uh, i posted who i was. the fact that chronos can't be bothered to figure it out sure seems to be his problem, not mine. and yeh, i chose to be the wicked witch of the west? see this is a little tongue and cheeky. because i don't get a choice. yasee, roles are handed out by the mod. so the fact that i am the wicked witch of the west would not normally be a role i would choose. see it was an attempt at humor (see the fart joke mentioned previoulsy). see, when i say goodnight red balloon with my kids it is not meant to be taken that there is an actual red balloon that needs to be put to bed. it's kind of like symbolic.

Freudian Slit

03-20-2010, 01:06 PM

Well, the whole point of the game is to analyze each other's posts. We can't rely on tone of voice or mannerisms as we would in an IRL game, so seizing upon something like "I chose" isn't super out there. In your case, intentionally saying "I chose" seems to be the kind of thing you do. I'm not quite sure why. But it can be helpful.

I'm wondering what the "You are fictional" thing means in the greater scheme, if anything. How many fictional types are there so far, has anyone kept a count? I know there's me, peeker, and someone else up thread, right?

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 01:09 PM

just get out of the box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNSEbgt1Dg

seriously, chronos take whoppin flapp doodle of three minutes out of your freaking life.

boxes suck.

Jimmy Chitwood

03-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Wait, so you're not the Wicked Witch?!

That was a joke.

Meeko

03-20-2010, 01:20 PM

[ quote]Role: Random Mafia
You are Joesph Smith (Mormon). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith [/QUOTE]

Joseph is spelled wrong in both your attempts to claim

Vote Snipped

I assume it's spelled wrong because you typed instead of quoting your pm.

I am

1. I find it odd that Luv caught this, given what he claimed.
1b. Then again, if I was given that Xu name, I wouldn't attempt to type it out either.

2. I wonder if occupation has to come into play at some point.
2b. If Naf is Smith, it could mean Town Power Role (Doctor / Priest / Protection)

Having a player post his Role PM verbatim, or at least a intact portion verbatim, has come up in conflict before. Spacing was off, lines of text were missing. Some games even had to publicly fix Role PMs [Pond fixed a handshake issue with alignment.]

3. The error as stated was transposition of a single letter. Where does that "error" stand in light of the above paragraph?
3b. How much of a misspelling is "Joesph"
3c.Certainly not enough to hang a vote on. Especially if he is town power role.

4. If someone does alter their PM, wouldn't that be more of a anti-town thing to do? Isn't this a catch-22 at that point?
4b. We had extra time to deal with Diggit in Pond. That was my main driving reason in my arguement.
4c. We have TONS of extra time to deal with NAF.
4cii. Then again, day 1 vote always goes bad for town, so we should just give up now, and board the Naf Wagon
4d. 4cii is intended to be sarcasm.

The question is, how many times did Luv check and recheck that he had spelled Joseph correct, before he submitted his weak vote?

peekercpa

03-20-2010, 01:22 PM

fos chitwood

stop having fun and kidding around. this is serious business we are engaging in.

Freudian Slit

03-20-2010, 01:28 PM

Can you tell us what your role is, then?

Meeko

03-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Noting FTR that Artist is also misspelled, though Wanderers didn't catch that one.

Wow. Good Catch. I didn't even see it.

And it's my role.

And it's verbatim as I got it.

Vote One And Only

TexCat's catch only illuminates the weakness of One and Only's vote. I'm guessing that One and Only is hoping to lynch a Pro-town power role in NAF.

I would put money down that TexCat has a transposition error in his role as well.

Meeko

03-20-2010, 01:48 PM

1.Meeko has started using an Outline format for this game
1b. But I kinda like it.

2.What do you guys think?
2b.Easier to "Get" me?
2c.Kinda keeps me on a short leash with my ramblings, eh?

3. Obligatory "Hi Opal!"

One And Only Wanderers

03-20-2010, 02:46 PM

cool. looking good for my standard day one lynch. at least i generate some data points!

Not that i'm giving up however. Seriously. Weak votes are the norm day one. Why so much splash for mine?

Chronos

03-20-2010, 02:56 PM

What makes you say it's much splash? If your vote for NAF is just the norm for Day 1, then by the same token, aren't our votes for you as well?

Mahaloth

03-20-2010, 03:49 PM

So has peeker claimed or not? I have no idea how he fits into the list.

Unless he clarified and I missed it, he said he was the Wicked Witch and then retracted it or something?

Meeko

03-20-2010, 05:31 PM

If Peeker got "You are Peekercpa" how do you think he would let us know ?

Just saying.

I find it unlikely, but still, it has to be said.

One And Only Wanderers

03-20-2010, 08:05 PM

What makes you say it's much splash? If your vote for NAF is just the norm for Day 1, then by the same token, aren't our votes for you as well?

no, cos theres a difference between a vote and a wagon

Freudian Slit

03-20-2010, 08:48 PM

peeker, could you maybe actually tell us what role you got?

ShadowFacts

03-20-2010, 10:13 PM

Vote Count:

3 – OAOW (voted by: Chronos [180], Jimmy Chitwood [184], Meeko [220])
1 – NAF1138 (voted by: OAOW [179])

Note: I am not counting special ed's “bitchslap” in post 122 as a vote.

Note 2: I have not tracked votes that were later unvoted. That may change in the future if sach decides he wants to do that.

Mahaloth

03-20-2010, 10:18 PM

peeker, could you maybe actually tell us what role you got?

Yes, please do, peeker. We need claims from those who have not, as well, but I figure it's only reasonable to wait until Monday. Peeker, too, if you can't post Sunday.

special ed

03-20-2010, 10:20 PM

peeker, could you maybe actually tell us what role you got?

why are you asking for his role?

Freudian Slit

03-20-2010, 10:22 PM

why are you asking for his role?

Well, if we're all going to claim, makes sense for him to claim. Plus, this whole, "I'm the Wicked Witch....or AM I?!" crap is annoying as fuck.

special ed

03-20-2010, 10:23 PM

Well, if we're all going to claim, makes sense for him to claim. Plus, this whole, "I'm the Wicked Witch....or AM I?!" crap is annoying as fuck.

Did you mean to ask him for his name?

Jimmy Chitwood

03-20-2010, 10:24 PM

I think he said pretty unambiguously that he's the Wicked Witch. I was just screwing around. My response was the joke, not his claim. Sorry if I just added to the confusion.

That ought to be all the claim that's needed.

special ed

03-20-2010, 10:41 PM

Note: I am not counting special ed's “bitchslap” in post 122 as a vote.

That's good, because my bitchslap was meant as a bitchslap and not a vote.

Meeko

03-20-2010, 11:15 PM

Well, if we're all going to claim, makes sense for him to claim. Plus, this whole, "I'm the Wicked Witch....or AM I?!" crap is annoying as fuck.

I would be willing to bet that some people would call him "wicked" in one sense or another.

I would be willing to bet, that at least on one occasion, someone has probably called him a witch.

Together, not so much.

Freudian, I think the issue was that you are asking for a role, and not a name, as the rest of us have been playing at.

----

How does it work for Mafia, are you Town until proven otherwise, or are you Scum until proven otherwise? Wouldn't the Odds of role selection differ with the knee jerk reaction to this question?

I am going to treat Peeks as town until otherwise.

Not much more we can really do. I've got a vote down, and I think it is more pertinent to this game, over "X is just being X again, and I think we should vote him on past, for events not occured in this game, history"

Chronos

03-21-2010, 12:16 AM

How does it work for Mafia, are you Town until proven otherwise, or are you Scum until proven otherwise?You're unknown until proven otherwise, of course. But to the extent that one is always not-voting for more people than one is voting for, and that while the game continues there are more Town than Scum, the default assumption is Town.

Zeriel

03-21-2010, 12:33 AM

I'm of the opinion that there are only two responses to disruptive play, and that's "voting it as anti-town" and "ignoring it". I'm sticking with the latter for now, but I reserve the right to do the former if we spend any more time on whatever inanity peeker's yammering about. When come back, bring playing the game. Hint: You're not.

This tangent regarding errors in spelling is interesting. If it was just one person who did so, I'd buy it, but since it's two so far, I'm having a hard time believing we'd luck into TWO careless scum. Still, it's a possibility---and I'm completely dumbfounded by people voting for OaOW for pointing it out.

Chronos

03-21-2010, 12:51 AM

By the way, to those doubting the name claim, it's already given us some useful information:
We know that NAF1138 did not falsify his claim, since he included the bit about his role listing religion before the sample PM was sent out.
Assuming that Zeriel is Town, we know that Freudian did not falsify her claim, since she was the first to claim a fictional name, and Zeriel's later claim followed the same format.
We know that TexCat is either Town or extremely ballsy Scum, since she was the first to claim an "evil" name.

Now, the bit about not falsifying claims may or may not turn out to be useful. Maybe everyone has a completely random name and the names don't relate to any game mechanic at all, in which case Scum would have no reason not to use the actual names they were given. On the other hand, though, if when we do catch a Scum e ends up having a name like "Adolf Hitler" or "Osama bin Laden", then we'll be able to conclude that Scum did have to make up false claims, and the people who used genuine claims will have a big check mark in the Town column.

Chronos

03-21-2010, 12:56 AM

Still, it's a possibility---and I'm completely dumbfounded by people voting for OaOW for pointing it out. If all he had done were pointing it out, sure, no problem. It's data, and conceivably useful somehow. But a Scum tell it's not, and I don't like people voting based on a null tell. In fact, given that both Meeko and NAF had misspellings, it's actually a slight (though only slight) Town tell for both of them, since it's the simpler hypothesis to assume that one person has bad spelling, rather than two (i.e., that both of their quoted PMs were written by the same person, i.e., that they're both genuine). And I really don't like people voting based on something that's a Town tell, however slight.

KellyCriterion

03-21-2010, 02:29 AM

You are Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Composer). You win with the Town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart

Verifying the legitimacy of each person's name claim shouldn't be too hard, I mean, how many articles could there be on wikipedia?

KellyCriterion

03-21-2010, 02:40 AM

Joseph is spelled wrong in both your attempts to claim

Well spotted. NAF typed out the role claim instead of just copying and pasting it?

vote NAF1138

KellyCriterion

03-21-2010, 02:41 AM

I would have liked to have waited until at least one night had passed. I don't know what information it would have brought.

It was spelled out clearly what, at least, the dangers of leaving it one night would have brought.

fos Meeko, for making an arguably -EV play.

KellyCriterion

03-21-2010, 04:31 AM

And now that I've read the thread a little more thoroughly, I see that somebody pointed out that Meeko's role is also misspelled. Not sure what to make of it. But for now..

unvote NAF1138

Meeko

03-21-2010, 08:12 AM

When come back, bring playing the game. Hint: You're not.

Snipped, obviously.

Wow. I knew this joked existed, heard rumors about it.

It's hard to pick it out of that forest though. nearly almost wooshed me. For some reason, I want Pie now.

By the way, to those doubting the name claim, it's already given us some useful information:
We know that NAF1138 did not falsify his claim, since he included the bit about his role listing religion before the sample PM was sent out.
Assuming that Zeriel is Town, we know that Freudian did not falsify her claim, since she was the first to claim a fictional name, and Zeriel's later claim followed the same format.
We know that TexCat is either Town or extremely ballsy Scum, since she was the first to claim an "evil" name.

Snipped

FWIW, I offered up I was an Artist, before I name claimed.

If all he had done were pointing it out, sure, no problem. It's data, and conceivably useful somehow. But a Scum tell it's not, and I don't like people voting based on a null tell. In fact, given that both Meeko and NAF had misspellings, it's actually a slight (though only slight) Town tell for both of them, since it's the simpler hypothesis to assume that one person has bad spelling, rather than two (i.e., that both of their quoted PMs were written by the same person, i.e., that they're both genuine). And I really don't like people voting based on something that's a Town tell, however slight.

THIS. I mean I think it was a weak vote to begin with, rushed, to cook up a vote on someone that I still believe will be power role town. This wagon will not be boarded.

Verifying the legitimacy of each person's name claim shouldn't be too hard, I mean, how many articles could there be on wikipedia?

Heh. Click "Random Page" a few times, and be surprised.

On Second Thought, thinking of Ed, DON'T click random page.

It was spelled out clearly what, at least, the dangers of leaving it one night would have brought.

[][]fos Meeko[][], for making an arguably -EV play.

Amadeus, Amadeus, Don't FOS me Amadeus. (Ama -- Deus...Deus...Deus)

What is so fossy of asking [and withdrawing] a request to keep the ONLY information scum does not have, a secret, until we have more information? I'm still not sure what good the name claim did for us. I know it will lead to more claiming, further and farther on a select few. I can't make heads or tails out of the claims. I am willing to bet that scum can.

We gave up secret information, to scum, for free.

Death would have given two names. I would be willing to bet we could have figured out everything we have so far, from that. [We would have a player with a unique name and classification information X. Someone else would have said "I am an X as well." OR "I am not an X, I am a Y."

In short, Town has given information to Scum. We don't know the full extent of that action. We did this before the first night.

I didn't want to give scum information. I fail to see how that is scummy.

Don't give me "Scum wouldn't do that".
1. The claim took place anyway. (And still is not what Town wanted, c.f. Peeker)
2. I withdrew my stance on it.
3. I added commentary on the entire "Joesph" and "Aritst" situation.

4. Scum wouldn't step in to stop a claim. I can't see any reason for scum to stick out their neck here. Yes scum wouldn't do X is the flavor of the month for meta game discussion, but, this is fall of the log easy for scum. Free information, Don't scare town off, and certainly don't shoot yourself in the foot.

If you mean to suggest that scum have not had time to co-ordinate, given a Day start, I suggest it doesn't matter.

5.Scum know who each other are.
5b.They know the name and [occupation / race / job ] of their role.
5d.It is a simple matter of deduction at that point, to find out the common thread.
5e.They already know more from the names than we do, simply by comparing notes, that were placed out in the open.
5f.This doesn't happen if Scum suggest we don't claim

peekercpa

03-21-2010, 10:23 AM

You're unknown until proven otherwise, of course. But to the extent that one is always not-voting for more people than one is voting for, and that while the game continues there are more Town than Scum, the default assumption is Town.

and we all have our own way of approaching this game.

my default assumption is that the lot of you are all unknown and exist merely to either lynch or nk me. and by this i mean that i don't put a lot of trust in what anything anyone says until there is some reason to.

and this whole role/name distincition has me needing to re read already.

Chronos

03-21-2010, 10:47 AM

I didn't want to give scum information. I fail to see how that is scummy. It is impossible to play this game without giving Scum information. Scum already have the most important information: What everyone's alignment is. Town, however, has almost no information, and what information we have is fragmented among multiple people. In order for Town to win, Town members with information must share it with other Town members, and we have no way of doing that without sharing it with Scum as well. So, we end up sharing information with Scum, but since they already know the most important information, it doesn't really hurt us much.

FWIW, I offered up I was an Artist, before I name claimed. Yes, but after sach provided the sample name. That doesn't mean any more than what anyone else has posted.